What's with all the rumors about the South pulling out ?

[dogman]

Looks like in the last two days two of the Southern teams have announced new coaches with old ties to the NFL. You would think that two astute sports executives would not want to get involved with something that was on shakey ground. Daytona's hiring of Leon Bright is great for the Thunder and while I know a lot less of Charlie Brown's reputation over in Florence, it sure restores some credibility to that franchise. Jason Gibson really turned the Columbus franchise around. Next to Raleigh, which got ZERO credibility from the media up there, Columbus was really being trashed by their local paper, called a dying ground for minor league sports franchises. I suppose that Tupelo is targetted as a Southern conference team unless Andrew has some visions on creating four divisions next year but there's no one even close to Tupelo. We keep hearing that Richmond is pulling out but folks, the Bandits screwed themselves in the eyes of the league by not only not sending out film, but admitting that they had done so with maliscious intent. How stupid was that ? Now, maybe the penalty was perhaps a little steep for the indiscretion, but you can't have coaches and owners thumbing their nose at a most basic of rule. Where's Richmond gonna go ? Rumors abound about co-owned Rome and Raleigh, but for Rome...three leagues in three years ? Finally, there's the Ghostbuesters, of 'chasers, or 'riders. Great logo and I think Asheville is potentially a good market. Lets sell the franchise to Indians in nearby Cherokee and maybe play at Harrahs ! Suppose Andrew could swing Montgmomery from the NIFL ?

[BarbaraPatterson]

Looks like in the last two days two of the Southern teams have announced new coaches with old ties to the NFL. You would think that two astute sports executives would not want to get involved with something that was on shakey ground. Daytona's hiring of Leon Bright is great for the Thunder and while I know a lot less of Charlie Brown's reputation over in Florence, it sure restores some credibility to that franchise. Jason Gibson really turned the Columbus franchise around. Next to Raleigh, which got ZERO credibility from the media up there, Columbus was really being trashed by their local paper, called a dying ground for minor league sports franchises. I suppose that Tupelo is targetted as a Southern conference team unless Andrew has some visions on creating four divisions next year but there's no one even close to Tupelo. We keep hearing that Richmond is pulling out but folks, the Bandits screwed themselves in the eyes of the league by not only not sending out film, but admitting that they had done so with maliscious intent. How stupid was that ? Now, maybe the penalty was perhaps a little steep for the indiscretion, but you can't have coaches and owners thumbing their nose at a most basic of rule. Where's Richmond gonna go ? Rumors abound about co-owned Rome and Raleigh, but for Rome...three leagues in three years ? Finally, there's the Ghostbuesters, of 'chasers, or 'riders. Great logo and I think Asheville is potentially a good market. Lets sell the franchise to Indians in nearby Cherokee and maybe play at Harrahs ! Suppose Andrew could swing Montgmomery from the NIFL ?
The south pulling out was reported by the CantonRep.com on Sunday http://www.cantonrep.com/index.php?ID=296989&Category=17&fromSearch=yes&subCategoryID=0

While I hope its not true, rumors appear to have more fact then fiction in them.

[dogman]

and knowing a little bit about 'sources' I suspect that there is some somrt of insider information, probably Legends owner Joe Hoffman, a heckuva nice guy by the way. I suspect I could probably put a handle on five. Richmond appears to be obvious. Having seen who all was at the championship game I suppose I could probably pick out the other four as well but let's leave that for the rumor mogers ! Indoor fottball is an aweson sport and great family entertainment. Shame it's being managed largely by people with less than desireable amounts of business acumen. I'm always a fan first sort of guy and when you have situations like the Cumberland Cardinals, the Philadeplhia Scorpions and homeless Ghostchasers it really turns fans off.

[dogman]

I really can spell, my typing leaves something to be desired on occasion !

[PIONEERSFAN101]

dogman, Richmond pulling out isn't a rumor. It's already FACT. They've stated that they ARE NO LONGER IN THE AIFL.

[Bandito]

That's true. Unless there is something hidden in a contract somewhere that prevents Richmond from leaving, it's a done deal.

[preeths]

But where will Richmond go? What are their options and are they any better than what they're leaving? Is it possible Richmond will not field a team next season?

[PIONEERSFAN101]

If the rumored South league forms, they've got themselves an option.

[dogman]

Richmond burned a lot of bridges, more than Sherman ever imagined !

[PIONEERSFAN101]

I also find it interesting that fayetteville was saying they didn't plan on moving to an existing league, but were considering playing in a new league...Perhaps they're in on this too....

[Red Zone]

This new "south" league has an excellent chance of coming together. There are too many people that are willing to do whatever it takes to make it happen. These are the same people that were very unhappy about what transpired in this past season. Just like Haines did a few years ago. Wasn't happy about the league his team was in so he went out and formed his own league. There are several folks that have a stake in this new league and will make it work. When this happens, it will be interesting to see what happens to the rest of the AIFL, including the new expansion team in Tupelo. This whole thing will take a little time to put all together, but I see it definitely happening.

[The Man, The Myth]

and knowing a little bit about 'sources' I suspect that there is some somrt of insider information, probably Legends owner Joe Hoffman, a heckuva nice guy by the way.

Joe is a heckuva nice guy. By the way, the same article said that Joe couldn't be reached for comment, so it wasn't him.

I've heard two seperate but distinct rumors.

1) Rome/Raleigh is putting a league together.
2) Daytona ownership is putting a league together.

Anyone with more info on the Daytona rumor?

[Minor League Man]

I think Tupelo would join the new league if the rumors are true.

[Tatonka]

I think Tupelo would join the new league if the rumors are true.

There is no "Tupelo", it's a league-owned storefront with no tangible value.

[BarbaraPatterson]

Joe is a heckuva nice guy. By the way, the same article said that Joe couldn't be reached for comment, so it wasn't him.

Thats actually incorrect. Joe did speak to the reporter that evening because it was the night of their championship party. The reporter also talked to him about the lawsuit and he knew nothing about it, just like most team owners didnt.

I for one would hate to see all of these teams leave. What needs to happen in some sign of stability, maybe a new manager for the league with Andrew taking a position as manager for expansion. This is not an unusual step for companies in this position. It takes a totally different skill to run a company than to start them. Andrew obviously has the skills to startup companies, but can he continue them? That remains to be seen. Companies in this position usually pull in "turn around specialists". They are very experienced at taking established companies with downward income and problems and turning them around to get them on track again. Upon completion they turn them back over to someone experienced in running the business.

All of the teams in the league do after all have three year contracts as part of their sales agreement from the AIFL.

[Tatonka]

Thats actually incorrect. Joe did speak to the reporter that evening because it was the night of their championship party. The reporter also talked to him about the lawsuit and he knew nothing about it, just like most team owners didnt.

I for one would hate to see all of these teams leave. What needs to happen in some sign of stability, maybe a new manager for the league with Andrew taking a position as manager for expansion. This is not an unusual step for companies in this position. It takes a totally different skill to run a company than to start them. Andrew obviously has the skills to startup companies, but can he continue them? That remains to be seen. Companies in this position usually pull in "turn around specialists". They are very experienced at taking established companies with downward income and problems and turning them around to get them on track again. Upon completion they turn them back over to someone experienced in running the business.

All of the teams in the league do after all have three year contracts as part of their sales agreement from the AIFL.

It might have been two different reporters Barbara, Jim Thomas had been covering the Legends for most of the season, but the article in question here was written by Todd Porter. (unless you know them both, in which case, nevermind ;) )

And no, not all of them have 3 year deals... but it's a moot point, the out is the breach of contract on the league's part. Take your pick, it's probably a different point in each city, but it's pretty clear with all the replacement teams, schedule snafus and whatnot that the league did not fulfill it's end of all their agreements.

[BarbaraPatterson]

It might have been two different reporters Barbara, Jim Thomas had been covering the Legends for most of the season, but the article in question here was written by Todd Porter. (unless you know them both, in which case, nevermind ;) )

And no, not all of them have 3 year deals... but it's a moot point, the out is the breach of contract on the league's part. Take your pick, it's probably a different point in each city, but it's pretty clear with all the replacement teams, schedule snafus and whatnot that the league did not fulfill it's end of all their agreements.
I only know that Todd Porter spoke with Joe that evening because I was there when they were on the phone together. It doesnt matter as it doesnt change the story really.

I agree with you about the teams all having a way out. Just sadden by the thought that the problems have been allowed to come this far. Tons of work have been put into the success of this league (along with others) and to see it go down due to what some perceive as mis-management is sad. I think one big owners meeting needs setup now, rather then months from now.

According to AH, the AIFL is flush with $1M a year income.. whats the problem? http://www.journaltimes.com/nucleus/index.php?itemid=6811

[dogman]

Barbara, help me with the math.

What's the franchise fee.....and did the so-called league owned teams pay a franchise fee ?

What were the monthly dues ?

Did those dues help supply uniforms and equipment to several teams at the outset ? Why was at least one playing surface almost repossessed. (And it may have been) Checks to officials were bounced, checks to transportation companies were dribbled as well.

Stability is clearly desireable for the fantastic sport to advance. Andrew's business plan in this instance just has not worked, for himself, or the league.

[Red Zone]

I for one would hate to see all of these teams leave. What needs to happen in some sign of stability, maybe a new manager for the league with Andrew taking a position as manager for expansion. This is not an unusual step for companies in this position. It takes a totally different skill to run a company than to start them. Andrew obviously has the skills to startup companies, but can he continue them? That remains to be seen.

Having Haines as "Expansion Manager" wouldn't work unless the commisioner would put him on a short leash. If that were to happen, there would be no need for an Expansion Manager. It's been discussed over and over - putting a team in a city without ownership (i.e.-league owned team) is destined to fail. The Ghostriders orginally had ownership from a guy in Pittsburgh. He wanted out and the team went to league ownership. Team failed. Florence had an owner who lived in Atlanta. He bowed out and the league took over the team. The league came close to folding until Jimmy Young came in and bought it. Raleigh came close to closing their doors untill Mr. Pierce from Rome stepped in and bought the team. The teams that are successful in this league are ones that have strong local ownership. Look at Rome, Daytona, Canton and Augusta to name a few. Expanding the league another 6 to 12 teams with the league footing the bills for those teams is not the answer.

Barbara says "Tons of work have been put into the success of this league (along with others) and to see it go down due to what some perceive as mis-management is sad. I think one big owners meeting needs setup now, rather then months from now."
We perceive it as mismanagement because that is exactly what it is. Using Florence as an example, costs were cut dramatically during the tenure of league ownership. Promotions were eliminated, no advertising was done, players went for at least 3 weeks with no pay, management received part of their pay for one week then went without pay also. I have yet to be paid for things I did for the Phantoms. When I called the league office, they told me what I needed to do to get paid and I did those things. They blew me off. When Florence was league owned, the league never intended to pay me. They were waiting for someone to step in and buy the team and then the new owners could pay all the bills, thus saving the league money. A big owners meeting will be second fiddle in the minds of the league because they are concerned about expansion. Why can't the management figure out all the expansion done will only replace a fraction of the teams that will leave? It just seems easier to try to work at you have to create stability and then expand in a few years.

[gonzo13]

HAHAHA!! Where is everybody going? Is anybody going anywhere?? I think I know because....You think you know because....This time of year may be even better than the season itself. :)

[Red Zone]

HAHAHA!! Where is everybody going? Is anybody going anywhere?? I think I know because....You think you know because....This time of year may be even better than the season itself. :)

We have to have something to occupy our time....NFL training camps don't open up til the end of the month. :D

[Bandito]

I only know that Todd Porter spoke with Joe that evening because I was there when they were on the phone together. It doesnt matter as it doesnt change the story really.

I agree with you about the teams all having a way out. Just sadden by the thought that the problems have been allowed to come this far. Tons of work have been put into the success of this league (along with others) and to see it go down due to what some perceive as mis-management is sad. I think one big owners meeting needs setup now, rather then months from now.

According to AH, the AIFL is flush with $1M a year income.. whats the problem? http://www.journaltimes.com/nucleus/index.php?itemid=6811

"It is on track to exceed $1 million in sales this year, Haines said"

besides what does the balance sheet look like. $1m coming in, $2m going out?

[Minor League Man]

I assume the new league would be called the "Southern Indoor Football League?" (sifl.com is registered by networksolutions, the same server that runs the soon to be completed Bloomington PrairieThunder site: prairiethunderhockey.com)

And Bandito, I'm sure the Bandits would play there.

[dogman]

Not.....some sort of announcement could come before tha AIFL meetings in August....

[security]

As I read post on the website I see members talk about teams comming and going...Well, to add on to the mess....The two of the South teams will pull outthat I know of....Daytona (AIFL) and Charleston (NIFL) this is comming from the owners who would gladly tell you the next step for there teams....As for new teams...The Columbia South Carolina area will be filling a team owned by Former USC and NFL players in 2008...they want to see what league will beright for the to join.......information comes from the player ive talked to and other backers from the area.....

[Bandito]

I think Regional, or Bus leagues is what is needed at this level. The money isn't there to support long trips. The GLIFL will, or could, end up being the northern league and the SHIFL (Southern Homies Indoor Football League) could cover south of the Mason Dixon line.

Keeping it regional definetly cuts down on costs. The PIFL has the right idea but they want to take it national which might not work because of the management issues. I think they are bighting off more than they can chew.

Regionalize it, come out of the season with a regional champion then challenge another league for an intra league championship. Follow the AFL lead and hold the intra league championship in the same city every year.

[baydaddy77]

Security,

The owners of the ECHL hockey team are currently building a facility for hockey, concerts and supposedly "an indoor football team". Is this what you're referring to? I live in Columbia and have heard nothing about it.

[Minor League Man]

There is no "Tupelo", it's a league-owned storefront with no tangible value.

Actually, Tupelo is expected to announce an owner very soon (press release on OSC).

So, he might pull out, too.

[Tatonka]

Actually, Tupelo is expected to announce an owner very soon (press release on OSC).

So, he might pull out, too.

There's a sucker born every minute.

[Red Zone]

Security,

The owners of the ECHL hockey team are currently building a facility for hockey, concerts and supposedly "an indoor football team". Is this what you're referring to? I live in Columbia and have heard nothing about it.

There was an article in the State Newspaper back in January that talked about Florence being in the AIFL and that there would eventually be indoor football in Columbia. I think you can definitely count on an indoor team in Columbia sonce that arena is functional. Darrell Thompson, the former owner of the Florence Phantoms, had the Columbia area locked up at the time. Since he is no longer an owner in the AIFL, potential ownership probably up for grabs or what league the team would be affiliated with. I live in the Columbia area also and other than that one article, I also haven't heard or seen anything about it. People that are affiliated with indoor football expect a team to be playing in the Columbia market. Speaking of Columbia, it will be interesting to see what kind of success the ABA expansion team, Columbia Rottweilers, do this coming season.

[baydaddy77]

I had heard some years ago that Mike Hold (former USC & AFL quarterback, Augusta coach) was interested in being part of a team in Columbia, but they would have had to play in the Coliseum. Maybe the future management should read this board to find the "skinny" on the leagues.

[gonzo13]

Right...consult all of us speculators.....

[Red Zone]

Rome and Raleigh's owner, Harry Pierce, has formed the WIFL (World Indoor Football League). Huntington, Daytona Beach, Augusta along with Raleigh and Rome. NIFL teams, Osceola, and Charleston will also be a part of WIFL ball. The press release on the Our Sports Central homepage says more franchises will be announced in the coming weeks. Infact OSC has added a WIFL page to their site.

[Bandito]

Well maybe that's where Richmond will end up.

[AK53]

When Richmond's coach AND owner admitted to willingly withholding tape, that absolutely torched bridges with most teams in their division. That was about the stupidest thng I've heard in recent years. Heck, lie, tell em the tapes in the mail....And then to claim that they didn't tape from other temas at that point was like a driver walking away from an accident with a smile and then 11 months and 363 days later claiming that he had suffered whiplash and was critically injured......When something is wrong, bit h about it then !

[gonzo13]

I tend to agree with AK53, I also hope that we are both right.

[TBONZ75]

I think Bandito might be on the right track, even with the past as it was Richmond might not be a bad market for the WIFL! That is as long as the owners can get along, and this will be an owner run league!

[Red Zone]

Somebody please help me because I've lost count. Are we up to having 9 out of the 16 teams gone? Huntington, Rome, Raleigh, Augusta, Daytona Beach to the WIFL. The Ghosties fold. Syracuse in "suspended operations." Miami Valley to the GLIFL. Richmond gone but they don't have a destination yet. Is there any other teams I missed? The AIFL gains Tupelo, Danville, IL, and Tallahasse.

[Minor League Man]

Okay, here's the situation:
2006 AIFL TEAMS:
FOLDED:
Carolina Ghostriders/chasers
STATUS UNKNOWN:
Syracuse Soldiers
HOMELESS:
Richmond Bandits
WIFL:
Augusta Spartans
Daytona Beach Thunder
Huntington Heroes
Raleigh Rebels
Rome Renegades
GLIFL:
Miami Valley Silverbacks
Steubenville Stampede (announcement TBA)

SO THIS LEAVES:
Canton Legends
Carolina Fuel (could be WIFL "expansion")
Chattahoochee Valley Vipers (could go WIFL)
Danville
Erie Freeze
Florence Phantoms (could go WIFL)
Johnstown Riverhawks
Pittsburgh
Reading Express
Tallahassee
Tupelo

11 teams right now. Then again Haines said he hopes to get 24 to 30 teams this upcoming season.

A certain Gnarls Barkley song comes to mind here...

[JayMoney444]

What's up with this Pittsburgh team? If you look at the EIFL's website, it has them as the "3 Rivers Rats" with Shawn Liotta as the Head Coach/GM. Are they AIFL or EIFL?

[BarbaraPatterson]

What's up with this Pittsburgh team? If you look at the EIFL's website, it has them as the "3 Rivers Rats" with Shawn Liotta as the Head Coach/GM. Are they AIFL or EIFL?
3 Rivers Rats is with the EIFL, was supposed to be based out of Monroeville Pa, but sounds more like it will be a traveling team.

The AIFL is supposed to lease a space in Rostraver Township in the Mon Valley. Not Pittsburgh, but they keep calling it Pittsburgh for some unknown reason.

[Sykotyk]

Yeah, it's irritating. If they do go with the name Pittsburgh, I'll just call them "Almost Pittsburgh".

Sykotyk

[JayMoney444]

Yea the old ice garden, i understand that. But if you look at articles in the trib. review, and then on the EIFL website, the articles in the trib state that Shawn Liotta is the coach/GM of the new AIFL team, and it also states the same thing on the EIFL site...

"Former Duquesne University assistant Shawn Liotta is tentatively scheduled to coach the AIFL's Pittsburgh entry."

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/s_461987.html


"Shawn Liotta has been named the new Head Football Coach and General Manager of the 3Rivers Rats of the Eastern Indoor Football League."

http://www.riverratsfootball.com/

....And the only place in Monroeville that I know of that even resembles an arena is the indoor soccer facility which holds probably 150 people, on carpeted steps/bleachers. So if a second team does actually exist somewhere, I guess they're traveling. But the way it sounds right now, Shawn Liotta is going to have his hands even more full than he originally thought, coaching one high school team, and two indoor teams :roll:

[BarbaraPatterson]

Yea the old ice garden, i understand that. But if you look at articles in the trib. review, and then on the EIFL website, the articles in the trib state that Shawn Liotta is the coach/GM of the new AIFL team, and it also states the same thing on the EIFL site...

"Former Duquesne University assistant Shawn Liotta is tentatively scheduled to coach the AIFL's Pittsburgh entry."

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/s_461987.html


"Shawn Liotta has been named the new Head Football Coach and General Manager of the 3Rivers Rats of the Eastern Indoor Football League."

http://www.riverratsfootball.com/

....And the only place in Monroeville that I know of that even resembles an arena is the indoor soccer facility which holds probably 150 people, on carpeted steps/bleachers. So if a second team does actually exist somewhere, I guess they're traveling. But the way it sounds right now, Shawn Liotta is going to have his hands even more full than he originally thought, coaching one high school team, and two indoor teams :roll:
Last I heard Shawn Liotta was supposed to coach for the River Rats, but the AIFL offered him a contract in writing that wasnt for a traveling team, like the River Rats is supposed to be.

[Red Zone]

I wouldn't be so quick to put Florence in the WIFL just yet. They would be smart if they did go, but some fences need mending before that happens.