Richmond cancels playoff game, leaves league

[PIONEERSFAN101]

The Richmond Bandits have cancelled their playoff game against Raleigh. It will not be rescheduled and Richmond is no longer part of the AIFL due to "differences between the Bandits and the AIFL"

Way to go AIFL.....Another black eye, and this one is HUGE.

[BarbaraPatterson]

http://www.americanindoorfootballleague.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=608&Itemid=2

Doesnt state anything about them leaving the league, but rumors tend to be true

[nksports]

too strange

[BarbaraPatterson]

http://www.richmond.com/sports/output.aspx?Article_ID=4304505&Vertical_ID=127&tier=10&position=1

[dogman]

for taking a stand. Bandits were maliscious inviolvation of league rules (which they heled to write) Owners of he Richmod team are out of New Jersey, have no ties and loyalty to Richmond and it was a shame for their fans and most particularly for the players on a VERY GOOD football team. They probably beat Raleigh and set up a rematch with the only team that had beaten them.

[andy76]

I say, Congrats to the Bandits for taking a stand against a poorly run league. I feel bad for the players, but I don't want to root for a team in a league that selectivly enforces rules. Richmond sent Raligh and Rome game tapes last friday, they were supposed to be there last Tuesday. Richmond recived Raleigh's tape yesterday? Where is their fine?

Very fishy that a league that can't keep updated stats and schedules can find time in the middle of the night during the playoffs to take down their message board. I wonder how many menbers will be banned over this? I wonder how many won't care?

[TBONZ75]

I say, Congrats to the Bandits for taking a stand against a poorly run league. I feel bad for the players, but I don't want to root for a team in a league that selectivly enforces rules. Richmond sent Raligh and Rome game tapes last friday, they were supposed to be there last Tuesday. Richmond recived Raleigh's tape yesterday? Where is their fine?

Very fishy that a league that can't keep updated stats and schedules can find time in the middle of the night during the playoffs to take down their message board. I wonder how many menbers will be banned over this? I wonder how many won't care?


Who says that Raleigh didn't receive a fine and didn't own up to it and pay it (I do not know either way)? 2nd - rules are rules and should be followed, the fact that they were or were not enforced tightly during regular season shouldn't matter. If you broke them, which seems to me Richmond isn't denying based on what i have read then pay the fines you have earned and move on. I just don't see how you blame the league for this if you knowingly broke the rules. Just as a fan i wish this could have been settled on the field not by forfeit.

[andy76]

Who says that Raleigh didn't receive a fine and didn't own up to it and pay it (I do not know either way)? 2nd - rules are rules and should be followed, the fact that they were or were not enforced tightly during regular season shouldn't matter. If you broke them, which seems to me Richmond isn't denying based on what i have read then pay the fines you have earned and move on. I just don't see how you blame the league for this if you knowingly broke the rules. Just as a fan i wish this could have been settled on the field not by forfeit.

I don't think the league should have forced the forfeit, they allowed the Huntington/Canton game to go on under protest and figured out a penalty after the fact. But i don't blame Richmond. THey feel that the league is selectivly enforcing the rules, and i am sure Salters (the owner) isn't throwing away all of the money he invested in the team over a $3000 fine. There has got to be more to this than what we know.

Dogman - the owner of Richmond is out of Danville, VA, unless i am mistaken.

[TBONZ75]

I don't think the league should have forced the forfeit, they allowed the Huntington/Canton game to go on under protest and figured out a penalty after the fact. But i don't blame Richmond. THey feel that the league is selectivly enforcing the rules, and i am sure Salters (the owner) isn't throwing away all of the money he invested in the team over a $3000 fine. There has got to be more to this than what we know.

Dogman - the owner of Richmond is out of Danville, VA, unless i am mistaken.


I agree with you on the forfeit unless it is in the rule that all fines must be payed prior to participating in a playoff game, but only the owners and andrew know how this is written. Salters i do not believe will throw the money away, i'm sure the Bandits will be playing in another league! possibly the PIFL!

[PIONEERSFAN101]

andy you are absolutely correct. This is not the whole story, nor do I believe is it ANY of the story that the league is giving us. Rumor had it that the South was going to leave, and Richmond just picked a better time to do so. They got to screw the league in the process. (Or else the league just wanted to screw itself AGAIN)

[BarbaraPatterson]

I agree with you on the forfeit unless it is in the rule that all fines must be payed prior to participating in a playoff game, but only the owners and andrew know how this is written. Salters i do not believe will throw the money away, i'm sure the Bandits will be playing in another league! possibly the PIFL!

6 Game film must be to the above designated people by the following Tuesday at 12:00 noon EST. ($500.00 fine for each late arrival)

No where does it state that fines must be paid prior to playoffs other then

15 Violation Penalty Guidelines
Team Owners who violate league rules may be punished in the following manner, commensurate with the above guidelines:
c. Loss or Forfeit of games- Teams may be forced to forfeit wins and or cancel games all together.
d. Suspension- Teams may be suspended from play during the regular season, playoffs, the AIFL Championship Game

[preeths]

Nobody won in this situation, not the team, the league or the fans. On Richmond's side, they had over 1,000 people planning on attending, most hardcore fans, who were told the day of the game that it was cancelled. It is unacceptable to show such little respect for your best customers' plans like that. And sending gametape late for revenge looks childish. Are fans going to support people who act like that? On the league side, one of your top teams, a championship contender, is booted from the playoffs for what appears to be very minor violations to most observers. Does this action cloud the entire AIFL postseason? The league's solution appears to be an over-reaction at best. It may be permissible according to the rules of the AIFL to issue a forfeit, but knocking a great team off the field for such reasons should have been avoided at all costs.

Whatever reason this happened, it should not have taken a forfeit. Threaten to suspend the head coach and/or several players, threaten to take away Richmond's next home game, threaten to sue: whatever it took, the game should have been played.

[Jamie]

While they still have a long way to go... the AIFL is trying to out-sleeze the NIFL...

[kyhero]

So lets make sure that we have this straight.............Canton plays 4 inelgible players= $800 fine..............Richmond does not send film...........forfeit playoff game........something is not right about that picture.

What a joke!!!!!! Surely you guys will not believe and except this, not matter what happens with this league we need all new leadership at the top. 30 something power hungry wanna-be's do not make good leaders.

AIFL = goood teams......good cities......good ownership..great fans.....terrible leadership at the top. Fix what is broken and things will move forward.

[1st & Goal]

This whole scenario stinks. It may not be right to withhold game tapes, but this had been done by most teams all year long. Richmond's owners should never had admitted they did it on purpose. Do like the AIFL has done when it comes to paying bills - lie. Just tell the the tapes are in the mail. When they look at the postmark, just say "I thought we mailed them on time. Sorry for the inconvenience." According to the league's announcement on their website, league PR guy, Dan Ryan, says it's a start up league and these things are expected to happen. That tells me that "we're unprofessional and can't get our stuff straight." Dan is a good guy and trying to do a job. I don't fault him for what he said. He was probably told by someone in the league office to put a positive spin on it so he had to keep his job. When you look at the league in general, the play on the field is good and they provide some fairly inexpensive entertainment. It gives players a chance to move up and play at a higher level. When you look at the teams in this league, it appears as though the announced expansions may only keep up the teams that will defect. Richmond is gone, Steubenville will probably leave, Syracuse is "reorganizing" but I doubt if they will return, Canton seems to be leaning on leaving. If Canton leaves, will Eerie be far behind? If the Ghostriders/chasers find a home, that will be a miracle. The league has a bad history of mismanagement. As soon as the fans began to rise up and voice their displeasure about Richmond's forfeit, the league conveniently shuts down the message board to "revamp their website." Yeah, right. Anyone who has followed the league this year and has read the news stories on the expansion teams in Danville, IL and Tupelo, MS can read through Haines' lies. I have tried to be a good fan and support the league, but this kind of stuff is what turns me, and probably other fans, off from the AIFL.

[The Man, The Myth]

Regular posters to the AIFL site may remember that the message boards went down right after the Huntington/Canton issue too (the "backdoor" still worked, but doesn't now).

There is no doubt that the site going down was intentional.

As far as Richmond goes, I'm disappointed that the league has again decided games in the front office and not the field. I really feel bad for our friends in Bandit country who won't get the experience their team in the playoffs.

With all the bad press this league has received, they had to pull another stunt at playoff time to further denegrate their reputation.

The American Indoor Forfeit League is in trouble.

[sportsmgrjay]

That is why all the teams not run by the tyrant's and ego's need to announce the breakaway now to let all the fans know whats going on, but due to contract they cant. But you will hear about the teams leaving that lady's league real soon. But where will they all land. STAY TUNED FOR MORE INFO> here come the --- ---- football league, gee that has a nice ring to it.

The hunt for HP and or howard neal continues. :cool: :cool:

[Red Zone]

Maybe the owners will step up and voice a strong opinion during the owner's meetings during championship week. If that were to happen, it would show Mr. Haines that his foolishness won't be tolerated. Like was mentioned on the league's board, most people are fans of their favorite team, not neccesarily of the AIFL. I agree with 1st & Goal's comments about the expansions just keeping up with possible defections.

[BarbaraPatterson]

That is why all the teams not run by the tyrant's and ego's need to announce the breakaway now to let all the fans know whats going on, but due to contract they cant. But you will hear about the teams leaving that lady's league real soon. But where will they all land. STAY TUNED FOR MORE INFO> here come the --- ---- football league, gee that has a nice ring to it.

The hunt for HP and or howard neal continues. :cool: :cool:

The AIFL was not formed until early March and most teams playing under the AIFL banner does not even have contracts and can leave anytime they wish.

Most owners I think, (rightfully) are waiting to see if the AIFL gets sold to GRWW.OB. It would be premature to announce leaving the AIFL right now considering a pending sale. New ownership in place would be a good thing, even with Andrew having a job still. The difference would be Andrew would not be the one cancelling playoff games or enforcing rules hit/miss.

Unfortunatelly, the sale has many hurdles to pass before the league can be transferred and if I had to bet, I'd bet that this sale is dead or will be contested in court if its completed.

[kyhero]

One stipulation in the sale is that there will be no litigation pending. I can't see that being the case. After all the people Andrew has pissed off. The sale is actually a public document if you go to the national registry to can print it off.

[Bandito]

I talked with Mr. Haines after the Bandit forefit. Just to set the record straight about game tapes, the home team each week is responsible for sending game tapes to their next opponent and the opponent of the away team.

So, Richmond was supposed to send game tapes from their last home game against CVV to Rome for the CVV vs. Rome game and to Raleigh for the Raleigh vs. Richmond game.

Augusta was supposed to send tapes to Richmond from their home game against Raleigh.

Augusta's tapes arrived late. They got fined and will not be allowed to start training camp till the fines are paid.

Richmond's tapes arrived late. They got fined and were banned from the playoffs because they refused to pay the fines because they were not fair.

If Augusta's fines can be put off till the start of next season, why not Richmonds?

Bottom line is Richmond should have paid the fines and then duked it out with the league in the off season.

Richmond takes as much blame here as the league unless Richmond used it as an excuse to break from the league. I heard rumblings from the coaching staff earlier in the year about how the league was treating the teams so I am not supprised. Just disappointed.

[The Man, The Myth]

I knew if anyone would get the facts it would be Bandito. Good to see you on boards again my friend.

I suppose my problem with the whole AIFL fiasco is that the penalties don't fit the crimes.

Let's go back to the Canton/Huntington issue. IF the Legends used illegal players, they should have forfeited. The league rules do not require that though, they only require a fine.

The Bandits violated a rule, seems a minor rule, they get fined and banished from the playoffs. The "death penalty" for not sending a tape in a timely manner. Penalty is too severe.

The AIFL is completely out of whack. Fix what you have before adding more or you won't have it long. Sadly, it may be too late for that.

[PIONEERSFAN101]

It's all spin. I would bet that the AIFL press release regarding game film was less than a quarter of the real truth.

[SilverSurfer]

It's all spin. I would bet that the AIFL press release regarding game film was less than a quarter of the real truth.


I thought it was really all related to Richmond getting kicked out of their arena and told not to come back??

[Bandito]

I called the arena. It is owned by the City of Richmond but is managed by SMG. The company spokesman said the Bandits had good credit with the Coliseum and paid all bills on time. They even covered the costs involved with canceling the game at the last minute.

[FreezinRich]

There was even an article a few days ago saying that the arena had no problem with the Bandits.

http://www.timesdispatch.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=RTD%2FMGArticle%2FRTD_BasicArti cle&c=MGArticle&cid=1149188634370&path=!sports&s=1045855934844

[PIONEERSFAN101]

I still think the Bandits did it on purpose to spite the league...

[Bandito]

You mean.....no tell me it isn't so....you mean this was no.....accident????

OF COURSE THEY DID IT ON PURPOSE {removed by admin}!

[preeths]

Please read through the board rules. Name-calling is not allowed here.

[Bandito]

OK Boss! I can play by them rules.

[BarbaraPatterson]

I still think the Bandits did it on purpose to spite the league...

I'm not sure if that would make any financial sense unless the team is planning to fold. Being a league "champion" would probably raise the value of the team if its ever sold and make it a much more viable team to move to another league.

Over all, I think this had little to do with the tapes as reported.

[PIONEERSFAN101]

Hey Bandito man I'm on your side. The arena crap was just something I had heard from a (now obviously unreliable) source.

And as said before, these penalties and fines are very disproportionate. $800 for 4 illegal playrs, and $3000 for film a few days late.

I see they gave Southern Conference Player of the Year to a guy for Richmond. How can you give an award to a player on a team that now has no affiliation with the AIFL? Maybe it's their way of saying, "We're really sorry, have an award!"

[The Man, The Myth]

I really don't have a problem with the award going to the Richmond player. If he was the best in the regular season (in which Richmond played all their games) he should get the award. Every now and then, the AIFL surprises you with a classy move. Now, the other shoe drops.

[Bandito]

I'm not sure if that would make any financial sense unless the team is planning to fold. Being a league "champion" would probably raise the value of the team if its ever sold and make it a much more viable team to move to another league.

Over all, I think this had little to do with the tapes as reported.

Richmond is heading for another league. I think this tape/fine thing was the last straw for the owner. I got the feeling early in the season that he, and the coaching staff, were not happy with the AIFL. If this had not happened now, I am sure Richmond would have changed leagues next season anyway.

Let's see how many teams return to the AIFL next year.

[BarbaraPatterson]

Richmond is heading for another league. I think this tape/fine thing was the last straw for the owner. I got the feeling early in the season that he, and the coaching staff, were not happy with the AIFL. If this had not happened now, I am sure Richmond would have changed leagues next season anyway.

Let's see how many teams return to the AIFL next year.

I think leaving the AIFL now would be premature due to the pending sale of the league. If the league sells, it looks like the buyer has great backing and experience.

[kyhero]

The sale of the league will not matter. The problem is still going to be running the league Haines is still going to be there. The NFL could buy this league and as long as he is there it will not work.

[BarbaraPatterson]

The sale of the league will not matter. The problem is still going to be running the league Haines is still going to be there. The NFL could buy this league and as long as he is there it will not work.

Thats if Haines will continue to run it.

[Tatonka]

I think leaving the AIFL now would be premature due to the pending sale of the league. If the league sells, it looks like the buyer has great backing and experience.

Where do you see that? Everything out there points to GRWW being just as financially strapped as Haines. I mean, their stock had been trading at under a dollar a share for most of June...

[BarbaraPatterson]

Where do you see that? Everything out there points to GRWW being just as financially strapped as Haines. I mean, their stock had been trading at under a dollar a share for most of June...

Have you researched any of the assets owned by the GRWW? Lets see.

100% of SMI (Still Moving Inc, A Television Production Firm)
100% of NAFL (North American Football League)
100% of WMMG
100% of CGT
Buying Worldwide Marketing and Media Group
100% of New England Pro Tour
100% of Las Vegas Golf Schools
100% Crowley and Company Advertising

an agreement to get $50,000,000 in investment capital for expansion with Brittany Capital Fund
an agreement to sponsor golf events with Donald Trump for over $10,000,000

The only reason why the GRWW has lost money for this year is because the companies executives make $300K + each, and there are three of them.

The stock has gone for $.01 just a few years ago to its current price of $1.31, thats a huge increase. $100 invested would be worth $13,100 as of todays price. Those type of returns dont just happen to anyone without long term plans.

Overall I think the GRWW has the right plans to help properly promote the teams under it and the leagus. The difference between Haines with no backing and GRWW with Trump and another $50,000,000 in its pocket is night and day.

[Bandito]

Did you verify that info or just drag it off some web site promo?

[BarbaraPatterson]

Did you verify that info or just drag it off some web site promo?

All of this information is public knowledge. GRWW is a public company and disclosure of this information is a requirement to sell stock on the open market and is available on the SEC websites. This includes copies of every sales agreement and proposals, including the one for the AIFL purchase.

[fwp]

I can't decide if you have a financial stake in this transaction being successful, or whether you're just the person that came up with some of the propoganda pieces for the NIFL.

With the damage that's been done, and the franchises that have experienced that damage know it well, someone buying this league would have to be looked at in a very wary manner.

The value of the AIFL has been damaged severely. It appears that the viable teams are going elsewhere, which leaves little or no worth.

[Red Zone]

Once some of the owners get together and talk about how they were done this year, I think you might see others agree that there are alot of changes that need to be done. I think they will need assurances those grievances will be addressed or they will research other leagues and possibly leave. I think the really smart business minded owners are doing some of that now. Some team managment people have indicated they don't care for how the league is currently run. I wouldn't be surprised to see half of the current 16 teams not back next year. If Donald Trump bought the league and pumped millions of dollars into it, it would crash without a management change.

[PIONEERSFAN101]

SignGuyDino did a simulation with GRWW stock. He bought 1000 shares last month and if he was doing it for real, he would've lost $1400 or so.

[BarbaraPatterson]

SignGuyDino did a simulation with GRWW stock. He bought 1000 shares last month and if he was doing it for real, he would've lost $1400 or so.

You cant buy and sell stock for a period of a month and expect to make a profit. Stock is intended to be a long term investment due to the cost of buying and selling. The very same reason most day traders go broke.

[BarbaraPatterson]

Once some of the owners get together and talk about how they were done this year, I think you might see others agree that there are alot of changes that need to be done. I think they will need assurances those grievances will be addressed or they will research other leagues and possibly leave. I think the really smart business minded owners are doing some of that now. Some team managment people have indicated they don't care for how the league is currently run. I wouldn't be surprised to see half of the current 16 teams not back next year. If Donald Trump bought the league and pumped millions of dollars into it, it would crash without a management change.

Just for the record, Donald Trump is not buying the league, he is investing in another business that the buyers own. While it does nothing to popup the value of the AIFL, it does tell me that if Donald Trump has confidence in the buyers other businesses, then there is no reason, at this point to not see this sale as a positive move, especially considering its current state.

[Bandito]

All of this information is public knowledge. GRWW is a public company and disclosure of this information is a requirement to sell stock on the open market and is available on the SEC websites. This includes copies of every sales agreement and proposals, including the one for the AIFL purchase.

Yes I saw all that data too and what puzzles me is why the company has never made money?

Where are they getting the funds to buy the AIFL?

Something is very shady here, especially if Trump is involved.

[BarbaraPatterson]

Yes I saw all that data too and what puzzles me is why the company has never made money?

Where are they getting the funds to buy the AIFL?

Something is very shady here, especially if Trump is involved.

From what I seen, the company which really started expanding this year with the infusion of $50,000,000 last November(http://www.fitgolf.com/articles/Funding-Commitment-Increased-to-50.htm) for a story. Looks like all of this year GRWW has been buying companies left and right. The interesting thing is that most of the companies they have bought have been for stock, not cash. The NIFL was bought for $500,000 in stock and the sales agreement for the AIFL (which I expect will be re-negoatied) is for $75,000 cash down, $1,000,000 in stock, and $25,000 cash payable end of the year. The buyer can easily get his $100,00 back by simply selling one team. The stock doesnt cost the buyer anything, just dilutes the value of the current stock outstanding, which should reduce the value of the stock, but it hasnt. It seems to be a win-win situation for both GRWW and Haines.

It appears that the buyer could afford to pay cash for all of these businesses but he's using stock and saving the cash for operating revenue.

Usually most companies do not stray outside of their main business (for GRWW its golf) but for some reason they have purchased a cd manufacturor, television production companies, the NIFL and potentially the AIFL. Either this guy is just buying whatever he can get cheap, or he has long term plans, we wont know for sure for a few years.

[Red Zone]

Just for the record, Donald Trump is not buying the league, he is investing in another business that the buyers own.

I didn't mean to imply that Donald Trump was buying or investing in the league. Just meant to say that even someone of Trump's wealth and influence could invest millions of dollars in the league and without a management change it would crash.

[BarbaraPatterson]

I didn't mean to imply that Donald Trump was buying or investing in the league. Just meant to say that even someone of Trump's wealth and influence could invest millions of dollars in the league and without a management change it would crash.

Agreed, I just wanted to make it clear to others that its not Trump buying the league. My point all along is that the league does need a change of management. Hopefully GRWW if it buys the league, has the skills needed to bring the right talent to the table.

[preeths]

My hope is that they don't take a huge step back with the sport and make it semipro. Their NAFL connections scare me. Not that there is anything wrong with the semipros, but this year we've clearly seen the talent gap between the professional indoor teams and semipro teams.

[Bandito]

The AIFL is semi pro i.e. an athlete who plays for pay on a part-time basis.

These guys only get $250 a game, $300 if they win. They have full time jobs and play the game part time.

[preeths]

The AIFL players are not semi-pro because they are part-time players. They are professional players, and the percentage of income earned does not matter. The AFA, a large semi-pro organization, even differentiates themselves from professional minor league players. Semi-pro players are largely unpaid and uninsured, and many pay to play or buy their own equipment. There is a huge difference between the minors and semi-pros, and not just on the field.

[patriot]

Does it really make one bit of differance if the entire inddor football fan base has a perception that the league is run in a semi-pro way. The only way to argue against this being semi-pro is the scores that the Cardinals and Scorpions put up since they really are semi-pro teams at best.

Just a thought for those who might actually still be checking out the league or the game next week. Look to see who is at the game. Better yet, look to see who is not. The faces you see will give you a good idea as to whom you might be seeing next year. There is one huge exception to this theory, but then again some employees are loyal to the cause to thier final day.

[preeths]

As a point of clarification, I wasn't commenting at all on how the league is run. My point is that the players are minor leaguers, not semi-pros.

[PIONEERSFAN101]

Since players being paid is a major difference between semipro and minor league, you could call much of the NIFL and AIFL semipro lol

:)

[Red Zone]

I know there were instances where players were working a full time job during the season. This put additional stress on them. Trying to get time off for practice, home games, and additonal stress of getting extra time off to travel for away games. Not all employers were understanding. I see both sides of the issue. Employers have a business to run and depend on their people (athletes or not) to show up for work and do their jobs. The athletes need the money (and benefits) of a full time job to support their family, while pursuing a dream of playing professional football. Some may play because they believe they can make it another level. Some play because they love the game. One way to help ease that stress is to increase the pay some. Maybe $350 to $400 a week. I don't think a winner's bonuse really matters at this level. Everyone is playing hard and playing to win anyway. Yes, increasing the pay will dip into the profits of the teams, but it would be one less thing for a player to worry about on how they will make ends meet.

[Bandito]

The AIFL players are not semi-pro because they are part-time players. They are professional players, and the percentage of income earned does not matter. The AFA, a large semi-pro organization, even differentiates themselves from professional minor league players. Semi-pro players are largely unpaid and uninsured, and many pay to play or buy their own equipment. There is a huge difference between the minors and semi-pros, and not just on the field.

That is your opinion of semi pro.

The definition of semi-pro is here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semi-professional

The dictionary definition of a professional athlete is ANYONE who gets paid to play on a full time basis. (NFL, AFL, NBA, NHL..., etc)

Semi-Pro is anyone who is paid to play on a part time basis. (NIFL, AF2, AIFL, OFL, GLIFL, ... etc)

In football, the NFL is the major league and the AFL is the minor league.

The indoor football leagues and other leagues that pay their players are semi-pro leagues.

Leagues that do not pay their players are amateur leagues.

[tony-o]

While these indoor football leagues are semipro by definition it is unfair (in my opinion) to call them that. Semipro has a negative connotation as in 'They are playing for the hell of it and have no intention of moving on to better things' while if they are called minor league it's more like 'These guys are taking this seriously and could go up to the AFL, CFL, or even NFL'. So they are semipro only by definition.

[preeths]

The Wikipedia definition aside, I have supplied the definition used by OurSports Central, the semi-pros and the indoor minor leagues. The Wikipedia definition does not fit reality as the vast majority of semi-pro players do not get paid at all or pay to play, and it does nothing to recognize the disparity in talent and operations between the semi-pros and the indoor minor leagues. On OurSports Central, if you get paid to play, you are a professional. Just as in baseball, the football minors have different levels below the AFL.

[Sykotyk]

In sports, semi-pro was a term used to give the impression that they're paid somehow, but that's not true. Professional means garaunteed pay. A contract stipulates that an owner pays a player a set amount for every game.

Amateur means that the player plays for free, but the owner or organizer still covers the expenses. The players may or may not do fundraising to help cover expenses.

Semi-pro means you pay to play. Own transportation, equipment, uniforms... And if the team gets enough from selling tickets, the players may,... MAY,... be reimbursed depending on what the league stipulates is allowed.

Sykotyk

[sportsmgrjay]

I think leaving the AIFL now would be premature due to the pending sale of the league. If the league sells, it looks like the buyer has great backing and experience. Great backing, are you off your MEDS. as of june 6 or something like that they were trading at $ 1.10 a share. Great backing, yea 1 place on there web site it said they were suspending operations,,,,hehehehe He picked a great 1 to sell it to. And by the way what is he buying? the name, doesnt do any good if 8 teams leave for another league. Word has it that there was alot of bounced checks in florence sc with the anitials ^& on them but a great guy went in and paid alot of them off only to get stabbed in the back cause haines still ownes part of the florence team. Who are they going to play with the other teams around them gone? More turf discounts?:cool:

[BarbaraPatterson]

Great backing, are you off your MEDS. as of june 6 or something like that they were trading at $ 1.10 a share. Great backing, yea 1 place on there web site it said they were suspending operations,,,,hehehehe

If you only value stock by the price its selling at, then you dont understand the concept of buy low/sell high. For the record, you WANT to buy stock lower then its value.. Not higher.

If $50,000,000 in their pocket and a history of them buying several companies a month this year isnt enough for you then please tell me how much money is enough. Have you even reviewed the SEC filings? http://www.sec.gov/cgi-bin/browse-edgar?company=Greens+Worldwide+Inc&CIK=&filenum=&State=&SIC=&owner=include&action=getcompany

I'm not suggesting people go out and buy GRWW stock. The discussion here isnt if GRWW is a good investment for stock holders or not, the discussion is, will the change in management be positive or negative for the AIFL? What I'm saying is, will anyone really buy a team in this league at this point considering its current history and ownership? Will teams be leaving if the league isnt sold? Will the AIFL be able to financially afford their expansion plans, and hold off the lawsuits and judgments pending against it?

And by the way what is he buying? the name, doesnt do any good if 8 teams leave for another league. Word has it that there was alot of bounced checks in florence sc with the anitials ^& on them but a great guy went in and paid alot of them off only to get stabbed in the back cause haines still ownes part of the florence team. Who are they going to play with the other teams around them gone? More turf discounts?:cool:

You made my argument for the sale to happen and I dont even think you realised it.

As of this point only Raleigh has announced its leaving the league but if the league is sold, will Raleigh come back? Will other leagues join the AIFL? Will those teams thinking of leaving the AIFL (and there are a few for sure) change their mind and stay? With $50,000,000 in the owners pocket (if sold) there would be little reasons for bounced checks as you sited. What is known for sure is that Raleigh will not be back without the sale and other teams are looking to leave.

No one wants to see this or any other leagues go under. What I do want is a company with the finances to take this league to the next level where it deserves to be. That may or may not be the GRWW but as of this point, I havent seen any reason that the GRWW doesnt know what they are doing. I havent seen any bad stories about their bad financial conditions, and I havent seen any stories of companies they own going under or being sued.

What I do see is them hiring management that know what their doing and deep pockets from investment banks who are usually tight with their money. $50,000,000 in investment money is a very good show of faith for the investors. $10,000,000+ from Donald Trump this week, in a 3 year deal shows he has a confidence they will be around in 3 years. Will the AIFL be if not sold?

[tony-o]

It wouldn't matter if Bill Gates himself owned the league, because Andrew is in charge the league will fail.

Teams aren't leaving because of how much money the league has, teams are leaving because of how the league is managed.

[1st & Goal]

It wouldn't matter if Bill Gates himself owned the league, if Andrew is in charge the league will fail.

Teams aren't leaving because of how much money the league has, teams are leaving because of how the league is managed.

This is very true. It's bad that everyone in the free world can see this but Haines and the big dogs at GRWW just don't get it.

[1st & Goal]

Word has it that there was alot of bounced checks in florence sc with the anitials ^& on them but a great guy went in and paid alot of them off only to get stabbed in the back cause haines still ownes part of the florence team.

There are still some unpaid bills floating around Florence too. They had a "fundraising game" a week ago between the Phantoms and Spartans to raise money to pay bills.

[Bandito]

The Wikipedia definition aside, I have supplied the definition used by OurSports Central, the semi-pros and the indoor minor leagues. The Wikipedia definition does not fit reality as the vast majority of semi-pro players do not get paid at all or pay to play, and it does nothing to recognize the disparity in talent and operations between the semi-pros and the indoor minor leagues. On OurSports Central, if you get paid to play, you are a professional. Just as in baseball, the football minors have different levels below the AFL.

Is this one of those places where I have to press 1 to get english?

Since when is OSC an expert in any sport? You run a web site that people like me visit and get bombarded with advertisements and popups. The only thing you are expert at is Internet Marketing!

Face it folks, if these guys were realy any good they would be PROFESSIONALS! They aren't.

That's not to say they aren't trying. I would like to see every player make it to the NFL but that just ain't happening.

So they keep trying and I keep paying my $25 bucks a seat to watch them try.

[Bandito]

In sports, semi-pro was a term used to give the impression that they're paid somehow, but that's not true. Professional means garaunteed pay. A contract stipulates that an owner pays a player a set amount for every game.

Amateur means that the player plays for free, but the owner or organizer still covers the expenses. The players may or may not do fundraising to help cover expenses.

Semi-pro means you pay to play. Own transportation, equipment, uniforms... And if the team gets enough from selling tickets, the players may,... MAY,... be reimbursed depending on what the league stipulates is allowed.

Sykotyk

Syko...take your meds and read a dictionary. If you want to put your own definition on pro and semi-pro fine. Just don't try to post it as gospel.

[Bandito]

If you only value stock by the price its selling at, then you dont understand the concept of buy low/sell high. For the record, you WANT to buy stock lower then its value.. Not higher.

If $50,000,000 in their pocket and a history of them buying several companies a month this year isnt enough for you then please tell me how much money is enough. Have you even reviewed the SEC filings? http://www.sec.gov/cgi-bin/browse-edgar?company=Greens+Worldwide+Inc&CIK=&filenum=&State=&SIC=&owner=include&action=getcompany

I'm not suggesting people go out and buy GRWW stock. The discussion here isnt if GRWW is a good investment for stock holders or not, the discussion is, will the change in management be positive or negative for the AIFL? What I'm saying is, will anyone really buy a team in this league at this point considering its current history and ownership? Will teams be leaving if the league isnt sold? Will the AIFL be able to financially afford their expansion plans, and hold off the lawsuits and judgments pending against it?



You made my argument for the sale to happen and I dont even think you realised it.

As of this point only Raleigh has announced its leaving the league but if the league is sold, will Raleigh come back? Will other leagues join the AIFL? Will those teams thinking of leaving the AIFL (and there are a few for sure) change their mind and stay? With $50,000,000 in the owners pocket (if sold) there would be little reasons for bounced checks as you sited. What is known for sure is that Raleigh will not be back without the sale and other teams are looking to leave.

No one wants to see this or any other leagues go under. What I do want is a company with the finances to take this league to the next level where it deserves to be. That may or may not be the GRWW but as of this point, I havent seen any reason that the GRWW doesnt know what they are doing. I havent seen any bad stories about their bad financial conditions, and I havent seen any stories of companies they own going under or being sued.

What I do see is them hiring management that know what their doing and deep pockets from investment banks who are usually tight with their money. $50,000,000 in investment money is a very good show of faith for the investors. $10,000,000+ from Donald Trump this week, in a 3 year deal shows he has a confidence they will be around in 3 years. Will the AIFL be if not sold?

I think Barbie might be in bed with someone in the AIFL.

[BarbaraPatterson]

It wouldn't matter if Bill Gates himself owned the league, if Andrew is in charge the league will fail.

Teams aren't leaving because of how much money the league has, teams are leaving because of how the league is managed.

You could be very correct but everyone here is forgetting the keyword there. Let me point it out.

"if Andrew is in charge the league will fail."

If Andrew continues to ask the new owner for funds to keep the league and teams afloat, the owner would be a fool to not bring in someone else able to make the AIFL self sufficient. Do you really think the buyer will keep spending $50M before replacing management? Do you really think financial backers will honor their committment of investing $50M if its all going into one league?

Companies always mouth off that the current management will stay in place after a purchase but rarely do they stay long if the management doesnt start to produce. Investment bankers like very good return on their money. Loosing money without changing management is just something they will not tolerate.

[tony-o]

Sorry, but I don't think that GRWW can fire him just that easily. Why do you think he isn't fired yet? I have heard from someone that Andy still has control in the AIFL.

By the way, if someone were to think "I want to buy the Tupelo team. I'm gonna go check out the league website to see what is up with this league", they would get a little surprise. The AIFL website has been hacked AGAIN!!!!!!!

And of course, I changed my post from "if" to "because", because Andrew still has enough control to not get fired. He's a part-owner of the league (that was part of their agreement) and he can't be fired.

[BarbaraPatterson]

Sorry, but I don't think that GRWW can fire him just that easily. Why do you think he isn't fired yet? I have heard from someone that Andy still has control in the AIFL.
He hasnt been fired yet because GRWW hasnt purchased the AIFL. (For the record, not stating that he will be fired after the purchase, just that he could be). If and when the GRWW buys the AIFL, they are REQUIRED to file a statement with the SEC, which has not been filed.

And of course, I changed my post from "if" to "because", because Andrew still has enough control to not get fired. He's a part-owner of the league (that was part of their agreement) and he can't be fired.
Your confused on the agreement. Go back and re-read the purchase. GRWW buys the AIFL for $75,000 down, $1,000,000 in stock, and $25,000 to be paid by the end of the year. Andrew owning stock in the GRWW does not give him any ownership in the AIFL.

I'd bet $50.00 that this sale doesnt happen anyways.

[BarbaraPatterson]

I'd bet $50.00 that this sale doesnt happen anyways.
Who owes me $50.00?

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/060705/law067.html?.v=58

HERTFORD, N.C., July 5 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Greens Worldwide Incorporated (OTC Bulletin Board: GRWW - News) announced today that it has terminated a Definitive Agreement to acquire the assets of the American Indoor Football League. (AIFL) (www.aiflonline.com). The closing of the transaction was subject to completion of customary final due diligence, and delivery of documentation to effect the closing, which was scheduled for or before June 30, 2006. Upon conducting due diligence, a judgment in favor of a former team owner was uncovered that was not disclosed to Greens Worldwide, and despite repeated requests for additional due diligence items, AIFL was not forthcoming with the documents requested and required by Greens Worldwide management.

[BarbaraPatterson]

http://www.richmond.com/sports/output.aspx?from=rss&feed=localheadlines&article_id=4324283

Kate Harmon
Richmond.com
Thursday, July 06, 2006
The future is uncertain for the Richmond Bandits after American Indoor Football League (AIFL) President Andrew G. Haines announced June 19 that the team had been suspended from the 2006 playoffs.

"The season ended so drastically and disappointingly that I have no idea [what the future holds]," Coach Brent Williams said, adding that he has not spoken to Bandits' owner Shujaa Salters as of this interview on Wednesday.

The AIFL suspended the Bandits, last year's champion and with a record of 12-2 this year, because of what the AIFL press statement described as "flagrant and malicious violation of league rules."

The Bandits deliberately withheld game film from both the Raleigh Rebels and the Rome Renegades and did not pay the $3,000 fines that came from not sending the tapes, according to the AIFL.

The statement from the AIFL included a comment that not paying these fines was the "core of the suspension," but neither Williams nor Robert Fleskes, director of marking at the Richmond Coliseum, knew what the other reasons for the suspension are, or if there are any.

The AIFL did not return phone calls about the other reasons for the Bandits' suspension.

Now the Coliseum is wrapping up loose ends with the Bandits, paying for the last games and continuing to use their offices in the building, Fleskes said.

The Coliseum has no plans for replacing the Bandits as of yet. Fleskes said the goal is to keep sporting events in the building and keep the patrons happy.

"We'll see what they want," Fleskes said. "Everyone is just taking a step back."

The phone lines for the Bandits' offices have been playing a message about the suspension since June 19.

Other reports of the suspension have speculated the team moving to a different league such as the Arena Football League, but the league's Web site states it are not accepting new teams at this time.