Coach Espo

[Roughnecks Fan]

OK. Who has the inside dope on the dismissal? This is as much fun as when the San Antonio Gunslingers fired Coach Bates during a pre-game warm-up in 1985.:p

[RUFFNECKER]

Ok folks,
so here's the scoop out of Roughneck land. The word on the street is that the management (Tommy B.) and Coach (Esposito) did not see eye to eye on the way things needed to be done. Esposito was a sticklar for discipline, and Tommy didn't always agree with personel moves and other decisions made by the coach. Basically, Tommy didn't like Espo and he is the owner so he fired him. First off, don't ask me how you fire a coach that is 7-0, that is just unheard of in any sport! But that is about par for this owner, not many people in this town really like him anyway, and this will work out one of two ways, either the team will continue to win and noone will remember what happened, or the team will take a nose dive and everyone will be asking why? I never met the new/old coach, but I have talked to the players on the team and they really admired him and his staff. Don't really know what this means for the team, there has been a state of shock here the past 24 hours and I hope the players decide to stick around, but the word I get is that many of the players on the team disagreed with the firing and don't really respect Tommy B. all that much for doing it, plus now they have to deal with starting over with a new coach, as the entire current staff from what I hear will be leaving. This is a sad day for a group of guys that have busted there butts for the last couple of months. It's going to be interesting to see how the organization deals with the loss of some of there better players, and how the new coach coming in deals with having to put a team together from scratch in the middle of the season.

[Roughnecks Fan]

Chris Williams seems to be a warm and fuzzy people person. Hopefully, we won't lose too many players. I never got a chance to visit with Espo, but he always seemed pretty intense. LOL I don't think it is that people don't like Tommy. Being a native of the Permian Basin, I can say that it takes a while for the locals to get to know you and warm up to you. Tommy and Abby are nice folks, based on my observations. Give 'em some time and they'll lose their Yankee ways. LOL

[BDW]

Among other reasons, Espo was paying players under the table. An assistant coach that was fired let out the news along with some others.

[Tennessee Valley Vipers]

Hey guys. I am in Huntsville, AL where Chris Williams has just resigned. It's confirmed. Chris will be on your sidelines this wekeend. GOOD LUCK!!

[ROUGHNECK FOR LIFE]

Talked to a couple of players today and they are saying thatTommy B that has set up payments to players and is telling them to keep it quiet. Sorry to see Coach go but Coach Williams will keep the guys playing. I don't understand why we are bringing in a coach that has been fired - and said he hated Tommy B when he left last year. Same thing every season with this front office - great team and bad leadership.

[sportznut]

Tommy and Abby are great people! Period! In the 2 trips we made to you desolate side of texas last season ( the last regualr season game vs. our Drillers and then the AllStar game) Both of them went out of their way to meet and greet fans.... Also you could find them after the game with the players, staff and Fans at Buffalo Wild Wings, I will tell you this, Not too many owners do that!

I havent seen a Ruffnex game yet, my first one will be on July 1 in lake Charles where I will be doing all i can supporting the NEX. I also know that Coach Williams sat and talked with us and i never heard about the players not getting along with him.. Well except Disco when he felt he wassnt beeing used right..DUCK!

But Guys, In a watered down league like the IFL is, You dont have to wrry.. they could replace everyone and probably still go undefeated....

[footballfan]

Espo should have been fired long ago. Both Tommy B and Dittman knew about players being paid under the table and did nothing about it. As for Odessa's record, it's a bit easier to win when you have good living conditions and are being fed well. Some of these other teams have terrible housing and are fed once a day. This is not to take away form the Odessa players, but it certainly does not make for a level playing field.
For the most part, all the players on these teams love the game and want to play. It is deplorable how they are treated by both league owners.
Tommy B is vocal about being a Christian. I think more should be expected of his behavior. If you're going to talk the talk, you should walk the walk!
As for Dittman, he's out for himself and always will be. Very little should be expected of that guy.

[1roughnecksfan]

Tommy B. has NEVER cheated, never given players money under the table. In fact when he got proof of Espo's cheating a few weeks after learning about it he confronted Espo several times, which Espo lied and denied it, and gave him chances to fess up and change. Espo did neither. Espo was not let go because Tommy B. doesn't like him. Would Tommy B. have let him go knowing there would be negative press, questions from players, confused season ticket holders and a possibel huge effect on his livelihood unless there were many GOOD reasons? He's not stupid. As far as his christianity- has he ever said he's sinless, perfect, or perfectly walking his walk? No. He's usually the first to say he's not perfect and makes mistakes. God is his judge as far as his walk, not any fan, player, coach or anyone else. As far as his treatment of players being "deplorable", you've got to be kidding. He provides nice housing, meals, trades for free movies for the players, bowling, paintball, golf, massages, gym memberships, furniture, computer access, tickets, bibles, anything he can trade for he does. Any team owner can do what he does, it's not against the league rules. Either other owners don't care, choose not to get players stuff, or don't have time. His wife cooks them meals, is making highlight DVD's for them, helps them find good airline tickets for their families, takes pictures for them and puts them on CD. And this "yankee" stuff, if we're going to go there let's start with the hockey team whose 90% players aren't even Americans!!! The hockey owners for the past 7 years live in New York or somewhere. At least Tommy and Abby moved here from Tennessee. I think they have put in their time as the new kids, they are going into the 4th season for Pete's sake. They own a business that depends largely on sales, sales is tough- 9 out of 10 times you get kicked in the teeth, hung up on, never returned calls, strung along. People want to say " I don't like those salesmen types" well then start donating money to them and they won't have to sell you anything. The front office works their butts off for the team- call down there sometime about 8,9,10 pm and they are there working. This is not fun for them or anyone. Tommy B. knew there would be repurcussions but made the right choice anyway.

[yellowpages]

What Tommy B did was admirable. Integriy and character is hard to find in indoor football.

[roughian]

Talked to a couple of players today and they are saying thatTommy B that has set up payments to players and is telling them to keep it quiet. Sorry to see Coach go but Coach Williams will keep the guys playing. I don't understand why we are bringing in a coach that has been fired - and said he hated Tommy B when he left last year. Same thing every season with this front office - great team and bad leadership.

Huh??? First of all, no one is going to believe that you talked to "a couple of players today" when you can't back it up better than that.

Second, someone please correct me here, but when did Williams never said he hated Benizio to my knowledge. Everything I heard put it as a amiable split in which Williams made a decision to leave and was NOT fired.

If Espo was paying players under the table (something that several people have agreed on, so I tend to believe) then he needed to be fired. Period.

If Jones really is leaving, I will hate to see him go. Loved watching Tommy play. But if he is leaving because his "under the table money" is going away then his departure is for the best.

I don't want to see a championship being tainted by cheating. I would rather go "0-for" the rest of the year than be known as a cheater franchise.

>>>>>
OH, and a comment for the person that brought the Jackalopes into the conversation. Of course most of the team is Canadian. I challenge YOU to field a hockey team of Americans and try to win. LOL. Hockey is the Canadian national sport. Fielding a hocky team that is all Americans would be like trying to field an indoor football team made up of mostly Canadians. LOL.

As far as the ownership of the Jackalopes, yeah, that wasn't the best of situations was it? The guy's business interests were included far more than just the Jacks though. Hopefully that situation has been fixed with the new majority ownership group.

[footballfan]

Let's clarify some statements:
My post said both Tommy B and Dittman "knew about" the players being paid under the table, not that Tommy B. gave the money himself. However, if a coach is capable of paying under the table you can be sure he's capable of lying about it when confronted. Once proof was obtained, it should have been an immediate dismissal. Obviously, Espo didn't hold ethics high on his list.

As for the deplorable conditions experienced by some players, I still say that. I guess what you're saying is if you are co-owners and President and Vice-President of the League, it doesn't matter how the teams are run as long as your team is taken care of. You actually proved my point by listing the wonderful ammenities provided to the Odessa players. Is it any wonder they are on such a winning streak when they are playing agains teams whose players get one meal a day, some sleep on mattresses thrown on floors, there are no gym memberships, computer access nor TV. I'm sure other players in the league would laugh about the "massages, free movies, bowling, paintball,golf,etc".
Perhaps you are right that owners either don't care or choose not to get players stuff. My thought is that as co-owners and President/Vice-President of the League some standards should be set for ALL teams. I'm not talking about massages and frills, I'm speaking about decent food, living accommodatations and access to a training facility. Minimum standards for any athlete.

[RUFFNECKER]

BEEEP! BEEP! BEEP! BEEP! Hold on there cowboy, let's back the bus up a little before we go and give Tommy the credit for actually taking care of his players and his team. First off, the front office nor the saint Tommy B. never have and never will do anything for acquiring meals, living arrangements, gym memeberships, furniture, or computer access for the team, what have you been smoking. While it should be taken care of by the "Great front office staff," it is done by the coaching staff instead, why you ask? Because if they don't do it, it would never get done, why is that oh great one? Because people in this town DO NOT LIKE TOMMY BENIZIO! You want to set around and give praise to the real hard workers in this whole mess, look at the coaches who coach this team, with subpar office arrangements, (about the size of my closet at home, and no a/c, yet they are in their everyday watching film or making personell changes, on the phone with scouts or agents. Have you ever been to their offices? Tommy made the comment he doesn't care about winning or losing. hahahahahahahahahahahaahahaha! Let Coach Williams come back in here and lose 4 or 5 games and we will see if he cares about winning or losing. Everything that deals with the team from housing to meals, to your free bowling, was acquired by both the past and present coaching staffs, not "The Great Tommy Benizio" the sad thing about this whole situation is that Abby B. is a really nice person and one that I admire. She always wants to do something for the players or coaches. So before we go and give Tommy owner of the year honors, let's get our facts straight. I have followed this franchise since it's beginnings, I have been lucky enough to establish relationships with all involved, coaches both past and present, and front office staff who all do a great job! and I for one will thank Tommy for one thing, while I still don't understand how you fire a 7-0 coach (by the way folks the cheating rumors are not true), I was happy in the fact that he brought Coach Williams back and I wish him and his staff the best of luck this weekend, as I am looking forward to the game.

[sportsguy]

Ruffneckers first post couldn't be more off...especially the part about building a team from scratch. As of Wednesday, all the players said they were staying. Let's do a little fact-checking before we commit slander and libel on someone, ok?

as for your second post, yes, Tommy does indeed secure some of the things for players...AND the coaching staff did ALOT of it too.

Oh, and BTW, Chris Williams is not going to lose 4 or 5 games...and he stayed in that hot office for two seasons, never complaining about it...oh that's right, because he went and got a portable a/c unit...smart.

[sportznut]

Man yall have a brutally hot building there.... I dont see how fans come out and watch the games inside that oven.. atleast the outdoor games have a breeze

[phydeaux72]

Man yall have a brutally hot building there.... I dont see how fans come out and watch the games inside that oven.. atleast the outdoor games have a breeze

Actually the games haven't been too bad this season, temperature-wise. They've actually been running the A/C from time to time. Last year was brutal, as you said. They rarely, if ever, ran the A/C's.

[roughian]

As far as AC, yeah...this year has been paradise compared to last year. I think last year they only ran the fan without any actual AC (I know at least a fan was on, because where I sit you can feel it). This year the AC is definately on and you can tell the difference no matter where you are in the coliseum. I've been very comfortable at each game (of course, I sit right under an AC vent LOL).

As far as Tommy B. I only have one thing to go on as far as his popularity. The amount of advertising he sells/trades for. Look around the coliseum and you see the place STACKED with advertising. For a community that doesn't like the owner of the team, it sure is eager to advertise in his house. He has more advertising up than the hockey team that has been around for...how many years now?

Maybe SOME do not like Tommy, but its wrong to say NO ONE in the town likes him. My brother-in-law is Lonnie McComas, owner of Advanced Pest Service, and he speaks highly of Tommy B., has season tickets and has gone out of his way to help Tommy. The owners of Ector County Abstract and Title, are also members of my "married into" family. Would they have paid for one of those ringside boxes if they didn't like Benizio? I know my family, and the answer is hell no.

So lets not generalize please.

Oh and the comment about the Pres. and VP of the league should set the standards for treatment of players. Tommy and the coaching staff DOES set the standards. Just because other teams do not live up to those standards isn't a reason to bash the team or its ownership.

[Hammerhead]

... But Guys, In a watered down league like the IFL is, You dont have to wrry.. they could replace everyone and probably still go undefeated....

Watered down? Just because there are only 6-teams doesn't mean the league is watered down. Just a quick comparison between the IFL and the NIFL through June 10th.

Average margin of victory: IFL = 13.6, NIFL = 31.0
Percentage of games decided by < 10-points: IFL = 40.9%, NIFL = 27.7%

What other league can you win by 80 or more points in a game than in the NIFL? Just last week alone the NIFL had two games with a winning margin of OVER 100! Talk about truly watered down.

[sportsguy]

Plus, the NIFL is forfeiting an average of *FOUR* games a week, because teams can't keep afloat...that's just sad.

[docta103]

Having known coach espo for several years, one thing I know about him is that he would never pay anybody extra money under the table.

Dont take this as a negative about him, but he's a cheap sucker and he doesnt think that the players deserve any more than the standard $200/ housing and whatever else they are supposed to get. If they deserved more they would already be in AFL or higher places.

Ask anyone that has played for him before or coached w/ him ( EXCEPT coaches in Odessa - that deal is kinda fishy) and they will all tell you that they'd run thru a wall for him, yeah he expects alot outta guys & discipline is a must, but when its all said & done those same guys would go work w/ him again anytime. But, they also know that there wont be any extra cash.

It just seems real strange that Williams quits or fired ( who cares which) w/ tenn w/ in 48 hrs is on his way to Tx & a coach thats 7-0 is being fired for paying players extra.

Its almost comical to hear a minor league sports owner yap about integrity in dealing w/ people. Every single one of em would cheat in a NY minute if they thought it would do em some good & every one of em would file for bankruptcy or disappear in the same time frame to protect their tail rather than pay people money that they owe.

This whole deal just smells kinda funny. Too bad for espo he was in the wrong part of the ole boys network on this one.

[Tennessee Valley Vipers]

Would someone kindly comment on why Williams can succeed so in Odessa but fail so miserably at the AF2 level. Don't get me wrong..I like Chris personally. He's a real gentleman. Just want to hear the Odessa side of things

[phydeaux72]

Would someone kindly comment on why Williams can succeed so in Odessa but fail so miserably at the AF2 level. Don't get me wrong..I like Chris personally. He's a real gentleman. Just want to hear the Odessa side of things.

That's a good question. I don't so much think it's the "level" of play because the af2 is at the same level as the IFL. I believe that the difference is in the style of play. Arena football is somewhat different than Indoor ball. And because Indoor is what Williams has coached for the past few years, it just didn't translate well with his move to the af2.

I think Williams would have had success in the af2 had he assisted under a good Arena coach for a year or so before taking the head position, at least as far as Arena ball is concerned.

But that's just my opinion.

[RUFFNECKER]

Coach Williams successes and failures in AFL2 has more to do with players than anything, he had AFL2 experience in Birmingham and Wilkes-Barre, But he came into TV with an expansion team and nothing more, yeah they may have played in this league previously and may have had a team in the AIFL before, but it was still an expansion team. His first year here in Odessa wasn't the greatest of successes either, but they turned things around the second half of the season and made the playoffs losing the game before the championship. The point is this, those guys were playing teams that had already been successful in the past two years, Louisville, Memphis, Florida, Birmingham, Georgia, all these teams had the fortune to know what there players could do and also knew who could play in this style of game and who could not. For Coach Williams and his staff it was a trial by fire, add the injuries and everything else that was going on, I thought they were doing alright, not great, but alright considering you are playing two past AFL2 champs and you play in the toughest division in the whole league. The problem is they were expected to come in and win right away, while I am sure Coach Williams would have liked to have done just that, it doesn't always work out that way. You put any other coach in the same situation and I am not sure things don't turn out the same.

[BDW]

I think the reasons for his success is twofold:

1. Odessa's players are by and far the most talented in the IFL. Its not even close in the level of talent.

2. The calibur of coaches you face in af2 are far superior to that of the IFL.



And to respond to an earlier post...yes, this is a HUGE difference between arena football and indoor football. However, the IFL is arena football (same rules minus the substitutions as AFL). In terms of the IFL being at the same level as af2, they're not at comparative levels. There are a lot of intricacies (excuse the spelling) to arena football which are simply just non-existant in the IFL. The largest difference is recievers 'steming.' Other differences include the apparent lack of having an arena FB, rather than a NIFL-like Running back in the backfield, and the prevalance of offensive philosophies not capitalizing on the rules in arena football which gives the advantage to the offense.

[Tennessee Valley Vipers]

I think the reasons for his success is twofold:

1. Odessa's players are by and far the most talented in the IFL. Its not even close in the level of talent.

2. The calibur of coaches you face in af2 are far superior to that of the IFL.



And to respond to an earlier post...yes, this is a HUGE difference between arena football and indoor football. However, the IFL is arena football (same rules minus the substitutions as AFL). In terms of the IFL being at the same level as af2, they're not at comparative levels. There are a lot of intricacies (excuse the spelling) to arena football which are simply just non-existant in the IFL. The largest difference is recievers 'steming.' Other differences include the apparent lack of having an arena FB, rather than a NIFL-like Running back in the backfield, and the prevalance of offensive philosophies not capitalizing on the rules in arena football which gives the advantage to the offense.
That's an objective analysis, and it's appreciated. Your thoughts mirror mine. And while Coach Williams is a better coach than his 2-8 AF2 record would indicate, he was not yet ready for the Vipers job. His mentor was Bobby Humphrey who himself was never ready. Coach's calls were inappropos. His staff was inadequate. His players here were undisciplined and lazy. It wasn't just that we would lose but that we were blown out in most losses, usually w/ a quarter of 30 unanswered points by our opponent in each game. Any time your team gives up 5 unanswered sacks on the last 5 plays of a game, your team is laying down. While the players we lost to Odessa were no loss at all, the ones who remained are now an organized and disciplined team, the result of 4 days w/ a new coach. Just the facts....

No doubt Coach Williams will return to AF2 eventually and prob want to beat us in the worst way just as he did the Steeldogs, his former team, earlier this season. Again, I found him to be a real gentleman, and I wish him well. But, he's also a smooth talker who claimed he never wanted to be the coach who ruined a team w/ the winning tradition of the Vipers....... Get ready to hear "it is what it is" incessantly when your 1st loss occurs. In fairness, Coach Williams is undoubtedly the reason Odessa talent is so superior to that in the rest of your league. But, our talent here sucked during his regime. Yes, the odds were against him since this was a start up situation, but other coaches have succeeded in their 1st season under same. Especially after smooth talking their way into the job. In Chris's case, he claimed to be a "master of rebuilding". 2-8 and constant blow outs would indicate otherwise.

Finally, as a fan of all indoor leagues, except that buffoonery known as the Niffle, I can objectively state that anyone who honestly believes that IFL is on par talentwise w/ Af2 is suffering from a preposterous delusion.

[Permianman]

I will tell you what I think. And I have a pretty good idea as my brother went all the way to Alabama as a member of Coach Williams' staff.

Let's face it Williams was against the odds from the beginning. First of all the franchise was not awarded to Tenn. Valley until late in the off-season. As other teams had been recruiting the Tenn. Valley franchise was not even off the ground.

Secondly, the community was used to winning so rebuilding was not tolerated. They wanted instant success. I also don't think that the community really looked closely at why they lost big when they did. It's easy to say that the team is not playing hard. You speak of the team getting blown out all the time. I listened to every game and came to one. They played close with Memphis in the first game. They lost to Macon by 3. They lost to Louisville in a close one. And they lost to Arkansas by a few points. They were blown out by Florida(twice), Memphis. In my world when you find a way to beat your rival you should be given a stay of execution in your first year.

From what I hear the community was just not ready to go thru rebuilding. Remember that Williams and the Vipers were trying to do things by the book(no under the table money to players). Unlike some of the aforementioned teams. So by starting late and not paying extra money what did people expect from the guy. You don't win the way that he has won in Odessa and not be a good coach. If he had access to the better players by having more time to recruit or by having money to pay for the best I am sure he would have done better. In my opinion he should have been given the opportunity to finish the season and at least start the next season to see if equal off-season recruiting time and efforts would have helped.

I think that with the schedule in the early going and the expectations of the community that the moral of the team was killed off pretty early. They did not even play one expansion team. Bottom line is I think Tenn. Valley had a good coach who would have brought them back but they just did not want to wait. Their loss our gain. That's my take!

[Tennessee Valley Vipers]

You have a few points w/ which i agree, but I am in Huntsville, AL and you are not. I was at the home games and you were not. Losing in THIS season is acceptable, but the players WERE unmotivated and undisciplined. Getting blown out is unacceptable. I stand by all my points in my post above. There's absolutely no justifying lazy players under any circumstance. The turn around in their attitude since the new coach arrived is quite notable. I was ready to stand by Chris til season's end recognizing the weakening schedule, as was the community, but I've no reason to believe that w/ the team he built that we would have won another game. Not w/ those blow outs, bad attitudes amongst players, and weekly streaks of 30 unanswered points.

Williams didn't want anyone on his team who wasn't in his inner circle. And, that's a nice way of putting it.

And, if your brother was the co-offensive coordinator, he sucked. Unlike my well wishes I extend to Chris, I tell that coach good ridance. GUYS, my apologies for my harshness, but I paid $300 for those 8 losses.

[Permianman]

TVV's. I understand your frustration. But I just choose to disagree with you. I think those players played hard for the most part. As with any new team there will be a few bad apples that need to be disgarded. I think they were cleaning that up for the most part. Some of the blowouts were unacceptable and some of them were understandable. I still think they would have gotten a couple more wins in the long run to finish up the season. But no one will ever know now. And I can tell you that the only reason Coach used so many of his old players was because he could not find anyone else with the limited time that he had before the season.

As for the IFL vs. AF2 argument. The coaching in the IFL has not been bad. With present and past coaches like Williams, Mike Buck, Don Carthel, Jimmy Dunn, George Lafrance, Stan Petrie, John Lyles and Dean Cokino(all with some type of AF2 experience) the league has not had bad coaches. As for players...the Af2 is riddled with former IFL players. Rob Mager (Louisville) and Alex Wallace (Bakersfield) just to name a couple. The biggest difference is that the AF2 is tied in to the AFL. But believe it or not the players on the whole are not that different.

[Tennessee Valley Vipers]

I acknowledge all the considerations. it's just too bad Caoch Wms didnt when proclaiming himself a "master of rebuilding. "And probably sooner than you expect". His words, not mine.

[Permianman]

I am sure that he wanted it to work. Too bad he did not do it quickly. But I still think he would have done it if given time. He would not have been the first coach in history to start with a bad season and rebound the next.

[Tennessee Valley Vipers]

then why such a dramatic change in our players' attitudes since?? BTW, you can keep Ahmad Childress and Ryan Schneider.

[Permianman]

The Childress guy is a good player and Schneider does not seem bad either. I know for a fact(thru my bro that you say sucks) that Childress was sent to Williams by one of the CFL teams to work on his weight issues and will be signed by them at seasons end. That is the reason that he had to stay with Williams... to keep that connect.

[Tennessee Valley Vipers]

is Wms going to fix Childress's attitude as well??? Has Schneider thrown more or less than 50 interceptions in the 1 week he's been there??[/B]

[BDW]

As for the IFL vs. AF2 argument. The coaching in the IFL has not been bad. With present and past coaches like Williams, Mike Buck, Don Carthel, Jimmy Dunn, George Lafrance, Stan Petrie, John Lyles and Dean Cokino(all with some type of AF2 experience) the league has not had bad coaches. As for players...the Af2 is riddled with former IFL players. Rob Mager (Louisville) and Alex Wallace (Bakersfield) just to name a couple. The biggest difference is that the AF2 is tied in to the AFL. But believe it or not the players on the whole are not that different.


Just because someone has 'been somplace' in af2 does not make them a competant coach. By and far the best coaching staff in the IFL was John Lyles and Roland Blackshear in CenTex. After that its a far far falloff. Its a shame Lyles was let go, especially because of all that he had to overcome in the cluster that is the CenTex ownership.

They'll always be a few players who do move from IFL to af2 or somewhere else. Alex Wallace was in af2 before he was in the IFL, as was LeJuan Edwards who just left CenTex for Everette and had previously played for Oklahoma city. And with LeJuan, you could tell by the way he played that he recieved the kind of coaching that the IFL just doesn't possess. He wasn't the greatest athlete in the world, but he understood how to position himself in sky and cloud coverages as well as stemming the dbs when running his routes

[sportsguy]

TVV:
Actually, Schneider went either 7-7 or 9-9 (can't remember which) for just under 80 yards and one TD in his 4th quarter debut...don't slam a kid until you see him play healthy...which Ryan apparently never was in Huntsville.

but why continue to argue? We are thrilled to have CW back, you wanted a change. So everyone wins.

[Permianman]

BDW,

Correction. Alex Wallace played in the IFL first. Then AF2.

[It is What it Was]

To say that all of Williams' problems in Huntsville can be laid off on the fact that Tennessee Valley was a start up expansion team is an absolute crock. Spokane, another team that has never played AF2 football before this season was 8-2 during the same time frame that William's Vipers posted a 2-8 record. How could Spokane get it so right when Tennessee Valley got it so wrong??? Simple answer, the guy in Spokane knows how to recruit and coach, the other guy, the Odessa onocologist, does not have a clue. If the IFL is on the same par with the AF2, then why did the Onocologist start cutting most of the Odessa pets that he brought with him to Huntsville??? I am glad you love the guy, cause you can have him, he is a real cancer, our team is so screwed up because of his inability to recruit, motivate, and just plain coach. The fact that you say Childress had to go to Odessa illustrates the problem beautifully, CW had this team so divided because of pet players or "buds" that were given nods over others, i.e. Childress, when there were better or hungrier players sitting on the bench. The only thing Childress did while he was here was to get suspended for four games. Players do not much like it when they do not think that they have an equal shot to win a playing spot. I hope that your team does well the remainder of the season, Williams is a nice guy, but he is the worst coach that we have ever had in Huntsville, period. He will be FOREVER remembered as "the guy who screwed the Vipers up". Alas, "it is what it is" and "it was what it was".

[Tennessee Valley Vipers]

wow, I tried to be just a bit more diplomatic, but everything "IT" said is the absolute truth. BTW, I don't think we're arguing here at all since my ex-wife isn't present. Just comparing perspectives is all, and no doubt our loss is your gain (barf).

[RUFFNECKER]

Wow! You are really a moron! Are you really going to set there and compare Spokane to TVV. I am not going to argue this with you because you people have no clue. All you see is a coach that came in and lost. I will give you that, if he had come here and done that I would be upset as well. but he did have the cards stacked against him, scheduling, the amount of time the coach at Spokane had to do his recruiting, I will say again, CW had a month to bring in players before camp started, ONE MONTH! He brought in the Odessa boys because he had no other choice, and if you are a TVV fan you could see the constant roster changes week by week. The Odessa boys from last year played a different game w/ different rules and had a lot of AFL2 vets on this team. While I agree that the attitudes of some of those guys was not the greatest in the world, but, I will say that the team down here is not like that. It is real easy to look undisciplined when you are losing, how could you legitamately get to know a coaching staff in 4 months. I read on here that they sucked, and they ruint your team, well I can say for sure that I am one happy Roughneck fan who is giddy as hell to have these guys back, because they are, in my opinion, the best coaching staff in any league, and I think there record speaks for itself. So he was 2-8 well like you said, it is what it is, Ya'll are happy to be rid on him, and we are happy to have him back! Best of luck to the TVV I hope you got what you wanted, because we sure did!

[Permianman]

I don't see Spokane playing in that division. So comparing that record is so unfair. I am not sure if Tenn. Valley would have been 8-2 in Spokane's division but I am also not sure that Spokane would be 8-2 in Tenn. Valley's division. Also the 2004 owner has a lot to do with the fall of the Vipers as well. Also, it's funny that the Spokane coach was fired last year in Georgia for a losing record. Good coach bad situation. Hmmm!

[Tennessee Valley Vipers]

Wow! You are really a moron! GREATTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT

[sportsguy]

Two very important points I want everyone to pay attention to and acknowlege...

1) TVV, PLEASE TAKE THE BOLD TYPE OF EVERYTHING YOU WRITE...IT IS MORE ANNOYING THAN YOUR OPINIONS....thank you

2) Can we start a different thread title, so this all doesn't go under "Coach Espo"?
Thanks again.

[Tennessee Valley Vipers]

Actually, all caps is what's annoying. I am vision impaired, you condescending jackass. Thus, the bold.

[It is What it Was]

Coach Williams was hired the second week of November 2005 and camp opened March 15th, 2006; last time I looked at a calendar, the next page after November is not March, so your argument of one month is all he had so he had to bring in Odessa is total garbage. Besides, the odessa players were signed well before the non-Odessa players were signed, so Williams' plan from the outset was to use his buds, if his plan was truely use the Odessa players as his fall back position because that was he could get, then the former Odessa players should have been signed last and that was simply not the case. Go back to science class, learn the scientific method, look at a 12 month calendar, and then come up with a better theory.

[phydeaux72]

I am vision impaired, you condescending jackass.

Pot? Meet kettle! Almost every post that you've submitted on this topic has been laced with arrogance and condescending remarks, going as far as intentionally attacking people's intelligence to making a spectacle of someone's weight problem, which you later edited out. I'm sorry but that doesn't make things right. If you can't take it, then don't dish it out.

We're all feel for you that you've had a losing season. But get over it and move on! Get off your mom's tit and stop acting like a whiney little baby for once. CW is gone, you've got your new coach, now just drop it!

Every team goes through a bad season here and there for various reasons. I'm almost positive that the Roughnecks will encounter their fair share sometime in the future. Big deal!

By the way, RUFFNECKER was right, you really are a moron.

[Tennessee Valley Vipers]

Could be worse. I could live in Odessa and be in the IFL ughhhhhhhhh Truly single "A" ball at best. I've been to Odessa once and, well, DAMNNNNNNNNNNNNN. Now run along back to your job sweeping the tunnel under the arena floor, Fido. Appreciate the sacrifices those of us who defend America have made so you can do so.

And if our booster club here no longer supplements Coach Patterson's trips to the buffet, that OK by me. Yes, I edited that post, but since you brought up the issue.........a coach who is morbidly obese cannot deliver the type of football product for which we season tkt holders are paying. It's common sense, and thus above you.

Learn to read Fido. Ruffnecker directed his comment at another. NOW< who's the moron?!?!

When a coach takes his one loss team virtually intact to another league and is beaten like a rented mule week after week, it speaks to the disparity of the leagues. Again, common sense.

[Permianman]

Could be worse for us as well. We could live in Huntsville, Alabama with a bunch of redneck Auburn grads. Oh yeah we could also live there and be stuck watching AA(what's the difference) AF2 ball. When America thinks football I am sure Huntsville, Alabama comes to mind right away. Oh PLeeeease!

[Tennessee Valley Vipers]

Could be worse for us as well. We could live in Huntsville, Alabama with a bunch of redneck Auburn grads. Oh yeah we could also live there and be stuck watching AA(what's the difference) AF2 ball. When America thinks football I am sure Huntsville, Alabama comes to mind right away. Oh PLeeeease!
now you are showing your ignorance. We have the Army Missle Command, NASA, hi tach everywhere you turn, beautiful mountains, the Tennessee river and you have....the remnants of a failing American industry in a nasty town. You even boast of jackalopes. You have to drive 40 miles just to see baseball. Ya see, I have been there. I won't be back. And Chris Wiliams won't be back here, though he did leave there once for a reason.

Face it. Odessa is AMPIPE.

[phydeaux72]

TVV, so I guess since you've served in the armed forces and you have a physical imparement, that gives you the green light to act like a prick. You feel the need to (attempt to, anyway) tear others down in order to feel better about yourself. You're beating a dead horse. No one really gives a crap what you think about our city, our team, our economy, etc. And we certainly don't give a rats ass about your lousy little af2 team, who are semi-pro at best. Because we know the truth of the situation and you don't. I'm glad that Chris Williams decided to take a step up and come back to the IFL.

Furtermore, and I've said it before, you're just a bitter, whiney little cry baby. And quite frankly, as an American, I'm ashamed to have had someone like you serve for my country. You're just a cancer in the hearts of the true heroes of this country. You are truly a piece of crap.

And by the way, the baseball team is less than 15 miles away ... moron.

[roughian]

TVV, wow...what an ass.

So you've served your country. So have I. I'm a Desert Storm Vet as a matter of fact. And WOW, I live in Midland/Odessa. What the hell does you being a vet have ANYTHING to do with the difference between the cities???

So when did you come to Odessa? 1978? Sounds like it. Cities are MUCH closer than 40 miles (less than 20 as has been mentioned) and due to the efforts of both city councils the economy has been greatly diversified around here. If oil disappeared the towns would shrink considerably, but they WOULD NOT disappear by any means. Odessa is MUCH more than AMPIPE.

You show your own ignorance by saying that.

NOW, stop being a HUGE baby and saying "Your city sucks" just because you got your feelings hurt. Its shows great immaturity and has nothing to do with the current debate.

[Permianman]

I am showing my ignorance...what a joke. You are the idiot that attacked a mans weight for no reason. Tennessee Valley's dominance (if you want to call it that...more 1st round playoff losses than championships) ended in 2004. It does not matter who your coach is from now on if you don't hurry up and explain to the owner that you have to pay a little extra to get wins.

[Permianman]

And by the way he (Williams) did not take the entire Odessa team with him. Some of them stayed in Odessa. But the ones that did not go(like DE Jerry Turner-Bakersfield) decided to go to other AF2 teams for....you guessed it more money.

[Tennessee Valley Vipers]

TVV, so I guess since you've served in the armed forces and you have a physical imparement, that gives you the green light to act like a prick.
no, it gives me the right to type in bold. Pay attention.
[And by the way, the baseball team is less than 15 miles away ... moron.
who cares?? it's an outpost.
Odessa is MUCH more than AMPIPE.

.
see comment above


I'm glad that Chris Williams decided to take a step up and come back to the IFL..
wow, you instantly discredited yourself w/ THAT remark


Furtermore, and I've said it before, you're just a bitter, whiney little cry baby. And quite frankly, as an American, I'm ashamed to have had someone like you serve for my country. You're just a cancer in the hearts of the true heroes of this country. You are truly a piece of crap..
the words of someone who calls himself FIDO.[/B]

[Tennessee Valley Vipers]

And by the way he (Williams) did not take the entire Odessa team with him. Some of them stayed in Odessa. But the ones that did not go(like DE Jerry Turner-Bakersfield) decided to go to other AF2 teams for....you guessed it more money.the only way they got more money was if it was under the table. Odessa types should be used to THAT, right Coach Espo??!?

[Tennessee Valley Vipers]

. You are the idiot that attacked a mans weight for no reason. Actually, I mention it because he had no business coaching here.

[Roughnecks Fan]

Come on guys. Let's not get into a cuss fight about a couple of minor league football teams. We have the Roughnecks out here, and we are supporting them. If we were in Alabama, we'd be fans of that team. I've been a Houston Texans season ticket holder since the start, but I'm still a Roughnecks fan. I'm glad Chris is back, regardless of what happened in Alabama and what happened with Espo. I'm just happy we have a team out here. I hope Espo, as well as the Alabama team, are successful in their future campaigns. Nothing remains the same. Let's all just go to our corners, root for our respective teams and coaches, and quit tearing down everybody else.

[Permianman]

I agree Roughneck Fan. But I still say that Coach Patterson's weight had absolutely nothing to do with the subject.

[Tennessee Valley Vipers]

I agree Roughneck Fan. But I still say that Coach Patterson's weight had absolutely nothing to do with the subject.

Could be worse for us as well. We could live in Huntsville, Alabama with a bunch of redneck Auburn grads. Oh yeah we could also live there and be stuck watching AA(what's the difference) AF2 ball. When America thinks football I am sure Huntsville, Alabama comes to mind right away. Oh PLeeeease!

but it's OK to comment about Alabamians.......

because, afer all, Patterson, the incompetent coach, is his brother.

[Permianman]

the comments about huntsville,Alabama came after the the comments about weight.

[Tennessee Valley Vipers]

which had been edited out immediately as I regretted typing it initially. YOU chose to make it an issue. Yet, the fact remains. He is an incompetent coach. No offense and no blocking schemes. Maybe that's OK for the IFL........

[Permianman]

I was not the one who brought it up. BTW, I am tired of this back and forth anyway. Glad to hear you regret typing it. I regret the Bama comments then. As far as the which league is better argument no one will ever know until a team from the IFL plays a team from AF2.

[preeths]

And on that note, I think this thread has gone on long enough.