Which is Better, UHL or CHL

[HockeyFan70]

If a prospective owner could place a team in either league. Which is better and why? Keep in mind this owner is local to his city (Louisville Ky) and does not plan to move for any reason. He has a good lease and good arena. Willl probably average 3500 a game with at least 10 sellouts per season. Please be specific and give as many facts as possible.

[Minor League Man]

I would reply, but you would get a research paper from me! lol

[rams80]

If you were looking at either the UHL or the CHL and wanted to field a team in Louisville, I would have to recommend the UHL. The travel costs you will encounter in this league would be much more bearable (teams in Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, with a couple in the Northeast) than in the CHL (which is located mainly in Texas, Oklahoma, and the rest of the South-Central US). Having said that, the one concern with the UHL is that it is less stable than the CHL right now, although it looks like the core teams are still healthy.

[geezette]

As a person who has seen a Riverfrogs game, that arena is awful! For the answer to your question. The CHL has a better business model, the UHL makes the best economic sense.
If you want a team, stop pestering the leagues and find someone with the money to blow about a million and a half dollars, or plan on 4500 plus a year. I am sure the UHL would be delighted to accept the franchise fee from an individual or group wanting to purchase said franchise.
I know you are most probably frustrated, but you have to have the money before you get the attention. Sell 1500 season ticket deposits. That will get someone.

[nksports]

UHL
(not the definitive list, just to give you an idea)
St. Charles, Mo.
Quad Cities
Flint, Mich.
Fort Wayne, Ind.
Port Huron, Mich.
Muskegon, Mich.
Chicago
Bloomington, Ill.
Dansbury, Conn.
Rockford, Ill.
A couple of teams in upstate N.Y.
(You're probably losing some teams in the SE)

CHL
Youngstown, Ohio
Memphis, Tenn.
(that's the good news)

Wichita, Kan.
Oklahoma City
Tulsa
Fort Worth
Rio Grande Valley (Harlingen, Texas area)
Broomfield, Colo. (between Denver and Boulder)
Loveland, Colo. (Fort Collins area)
Austin
Corpus Christi
Prescott Valley, Ariz.
Laredo
*-Amarillo
*-Lubbock
*-Odessa
New Mexico
Bossier City-Shreveport
*-What's the best view of these cities? Through the rear-view mirror.

On the other hand, if you pull it off, I might go down to watch. My dad lives in Madison, Ind., and my mom is moving from outside Oxford, Ohio, to Carrollton, Ky., so I'm in the area at least once a year.

[HockeyFan70]

Glad to have you. Broadbent is not the greatest arena but for the near future it will do. The CHL has been more than gracious. The president actually played in Louisville. He takes a very personal approach to his league. I can't even get an email from the UHL. I have also been contacted by a third league (not the SPHL) which I won't name. It is a great value but I haven't decided. I hope I can get this deal done and be playing in '07-'08.

[nksports]

You could form your own league:
Louisville
Indianapolis
Lexington
South Bend
Troy (Ohio)
Huntington
(those are just cities in the region that I know of with some sort of arena and no pro team that I know of and they are all within roughly six hours of each other.)

60 game season. $200,000 salary cap for season (20-week season, at three games a week, 18 players comes to about $555 a week). Budget about the same for staff. Then comes office space, utilities, insurance, advertising and everything else. If you can average 3,500 fans at an average ticket price of $7 (don't get too pricey) that comes to $735,000 income before sponsorships and merchandising (that's about break even). You're looking at roughly (depending on the arena) about $100,000 in rent a season.
Keep the road trips short and limit overnight stays.

Structure it as an A/rookie league (three years of pro experience or less with two exemptions for veterans -- one of which is an assistant coach).

Hey I think I'm on to something. I'll start selling franchise rights for $10,000. No credit check required (no wait, that's the ABA and the NIFL). Send you application, along with a non-refundable deposit of $5,000 (to be applied to full franchise fee if your application is accepted) to ........

[Motownboy]

Hockey Fan:

Another factor to deal with is how you find the players. Players from college and junior graduate each year and only some are drafted. To see them , you neeed to hold or attend free agent tryout camps to look for players. An experienced coach and GM is important. One who knows the ins and outs of pro hockey, and been through the wars so to speak.

Also sometimes you can make working agreements with NHL teams, and their primary affililiates in the American Hockey League, the main AAA league. Usually AHL teams have "extras" or "spares". Guys who can play, but they don't have room for them on their team. They need to find a place to play. That is where you come in. The only catch is that they would have the right to recall them to their AHL team if needed.

Two books I read last year would help you . One is "Minor League In Name Only" Its the story of the Adirondack Red Wings, when that region had the Red Wing farm team from 1979 until 2003. I believe the author is Mike Kane, a newspaper guy from upstate new york. The other one is "They Don't Play Hockey in Heaven" by Ken Baker, a former college goalie who decided to play a year of pro hockey and played in the old West Coast League, which is now part of the East Coast League. It show how nomad the lifestyle, how some guys play in different cities, the whole lifestyle. Baker now writes and is an editor for US Weekly, or some celebrity mag like that.

I think both books would give you a really good picture of what the players, coaches and owners are like at that level.

Good Luck,
Tom

[cylon555]

I fell Fort Wayne sould leave the UHL its the only team holding this
league up 8 of the 14 teams average less than the league average
the second highest attended team is 900 more than the average
while Fort Waynes is almost 3400 more than the average thats
more than double the leagues average

[nksports]

Fort Wayne is going to succeed in any league (as long as travel is in reason) outside of the NHL simply because history. That town is Hockeytown Indiana. It's also about the only major town in Indiana exempt from Hoosier Hysteria, Boilermaker Mania and whatever you call what goes on in South Bend. The only D-I college in town is IPFW and their claim to fame is men's volleyball.
Fort Wayne and Kalamazoo were the only IHL franchises that survived the early 80s when all the rust-belt teams (Dayton, Toledo, Muskegon, Flint, Port Huron, Columbus-Dayton-Grand Rapids, Saganaw) folded when the economy (and the auto plants where all the fans were employed) went south. (That's when the IHL decided to go AAA and go national, which worked for another 20 years.)
I have some fond memories of the Komets and the old Dayton Gems in the 70s. If Dayton only won 20 games a season, if they won the series with Fort Wayne, it was a success. That was an 80-minute war (about 60 minutes of hockey and 20 of fights).

[MsHockeyFan]

Muskegon didn't FOLD in the 80's, thier franchise was bought for a buck by Larry Gordon he then proceeded to move them to Cleveland after making them a winner in Muskegon. It was then Tony Lisman came to Muskegon hockey fan's rescue and formed the CoHL/UHL Muskegon Fury (the winningest team in all of minor Pro Hockey) The Lumberjack franchise couldn't compete with the IHL expansion but were doing fine financially and IF the expansion hadn't taken place they probably would have stayed. I also believe the IHL would have survied if they hadn't tried to expand out side the midwest area that they started in. Hopefully the UHL has learned that lesson.

[nksports]

The IHL in its waining years didn't help itself with six-figure salaries for journeyman veterans who had a cup or two of coffee in the NHL. It also ticked off NHL owners with expansion into NHL cities.

[BreakersFan]

You could form your own league:
Louisville
Indianapolis
Lexington
South Bend
Troy (Ohio)
Huntington
(those are just cities in the region that I know of with some sort of arena and no pro team that I know of and they are all within roughly six hours of each other.)

60 game season. $200,000 salary cap for season (20-week season, at three games a week, 18 players comes to about $555 a week). Budget about the same for staff. Then comes office space, utilities, insurance, advertising and everything else. If you can average 3,500 fans at an average ticket price of $7 (don't get too pricey) that comes to $735,000 income before sponsorships and merchandising (that's about break even). You're looking at roughly (depending on the arena) about $100,000 in rent a season.
Keep the road trips short and limit overnight stays.

Structure it as an A/rookie league (three years of pro experience or less with two exemptions for veterans -- one of which is an assistant coach).

Hey I think I'm on to something. I'll start selling franchise rights for $10,000. No credit check required (no wait, that's the ABA and the NIFL). Send you application, along with a non-refundable deposit of $5,000 (to be applied to full franchise fee if your application is accepted) to ........

Keep that thought in mind for places in the midwest and northeast if the UHL implodes any time soon.....