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Duckfan
05-13-2006, 11:41 PM
Has the Atlantic League lost it's collective mind? They put a team in Waldorf MD? Even with light traffic that's a seven hour bus trip from Long Island, eight hours from Bridgeport. Didn't they learn anything from Aberdeen? The players are going to be exhausted by the time they get there. I'm sure it's a lovely area but that's one road trip I'm going to skip.

TimosMami2003
05-16-2006, 11:33 PM
:p No kidding. I saw that and my jaw dropped! I haven't been on the Northeast coast yet- but I know enough to not put a team 8 hours away! Wow... hopefully my hubby will sign w/a major league team.

toad8098
05-17-2006, 04:20 PM
I'm guess the league did this simply to not have the Road Warriors next season.

And today there was an article about the Bergen Cliff Hawks's stadium being approved. My guess is that the Blue Crabs will stick around until Bergen joins. Or possibly the league will add another southern team to even things out.

TimosMami2003
05-17-2006, 10:41 PM
Has anyone heard about maybe expanding the league to 10 teams??? Is that even an option???:?:

sportsguy32
05-18-2006, 02:07 PM
I don't think they will expand unless Elmira is coming back. I know York is supposed to get a team, but that is probably a few years away as is Bergen, NJ.

I think the Crabs will be a replacement for the Road Warriors, who play all road games.

Duckfan
05-19-2006, 05:25 PM
Right now, the league has planned( or at least rumored) expansion in Nassau County NY (as part of the new Nassau Colliseum), Bergen County NJ (as part of the new Giants Stadium) Yonkers NY and York PA. When it will happen is anyone's guess. Those teams are at least within reasonable traveling distance for someone who travels by bus. I just can't see traveling to Southern MD.
As far as the number of teams in the league, I have a feeling that it will eventually stabilize at eight. The weaker teams like Atlantic City, Bridgeport and Newark will suffer the same fate as Nashua. Aberdeen MD did not support their team and I don't expect Southern MD to fare any better. For those of you who weren't around then, even though it was backed by Cal Ripken, Aberdeen averaged about 100 fans per game. This is afterall, a business, and if they're not profitable, they will be out.

P.S. The upstate NY team was in Newburgh, not Elmira. They were the Newburgh Black Diamonds, then the Lehigh Valley (PA) Black Diamonds, then the PA Black Diamonds and finally the Road Warriors.

TimosMami2003
05-20-2006, 10:40 AM
So you obviously feel that the Maryland team won't last long - any city you would prefer that they do have a team???

As for the bus rides--you're right, that's just BRUTAL! Maybe they're thinking about bringing in $$, but you have to think about the players, coaches, etc. What a drive. Not to mention everyone that has to travel THERE to play also! Believe me - I still, to this day, can not figure out why they do some stuff the way they do. Baseball you just never know.

Duckfan
05-20-2006, 03:43 PM
My feeling is the the Atlantic League is a regional league. Southern MD is outside of that region and will be a real hardship on the players.
As far as cities go, it appears that "cities", especially those from the Rust Belt, do not do well. It's the more affluent suburban areas that really seem to flourish. Camden might be the exception, but to be honest, I'm not that familiar with the area. It's my impression that it's basically a suburb of Philadephia, but I could be wrong. I saw a statistic a while back that indicated Camden had the worst crime rate in the entire country. The stadium might be located in a good part of the city, closer to the suburbs and not in the inner city.

Bstormer25
05-22-2006, 02:21 PM
Lancaster, York (who will be playing next year--construction on the stadium starts in a month or so), Camden and the Blue Crabs (terrible name...there's already a "blue" team) are all within 3 hours of each other, but the Crabs are way too far from Bridgeport and L.I. Unless they are going to schedule extensive road trips, it will really wear on the teams to the extreme north and south. Isn't too much travel time one of the reasons Nashua joined the Can-Am League?

toad8098
05-22-2006, 09:52 PM
The main reason Nassau left was that the Atlantic league started too soon for them because of the cold weather. They drew flies during the first month. The Can-Am league starts about a month later and was the main reason they left.

And it does look as though York might also join next year. I would think they'd keep the Road Warriors or possibly fold Atlantic City. Here's a website to name the team: http://www.nameyorksteam.com/preview.cfm

I think that makes it clear they'll join.

Maybe the divisions will be like this:

NORTH
Bridgeport
Long Island
Newark
Somerset
Road Warriors(?)

SOUTH
Camden
Lancaster
So. Maryland
York
Atlantic City(?)

Bstormer25
05-23-2006, 08:21 AM
York is all but in. The state of PA gave them some more money to get it done. They have a downtown stadium site that everybody is happy with. If Atlantic City folds, the Road Warriors will play again in 2007. If not, the Warriors will suspend operations.

Here is an article from the beginning of May from a York newspaper:

http://www.ydr.com/sportsfull/ci_3784315

HeadFirst
05-25-2006, 01:42 PM
Please permit me to enlighten those who seem to think that life ends at the Mason-Dixon Line.

The move into Charles County, Maryland, in the sprawling suburbs of Washington, D.C., is a permanent one for the Atlantic League. They are building a stadium -- something not usually done if the location will merely be a place-holder for the Road Warriors. Further, trips from Southern Maryland to Lancaster, Camden and York will be quite easy, and the New York area teams are just up the Turnpike. It is not as illogical as many of you appear to believe.

Further, there is a big gaping hole now in D.C.'s western suburbs in Virginia, which the Atlantic League will indubitably work hard to fill. That might take some doing, since politics (i.e., the wealthy NIMBYs) prevented Northern Virginia from forming a successful stadium plan to inherit the Expos. But an Atlantic League franchise in western Fairfax or eastern Loudoun would fit nicely into their placement scheme.

An eight-hour drive is a detriment? There are much longer bus trips in minor league sports. It's solvable by creating an imbalanced schedule, as is common in indy leagues. Besides, if a league thought it could turn a profit, they'd put a team on the Moon.

TimosMami2003
05-26-2006, 04:27 PM
.....And have you ever BEEN on an 8 hour bus ride, or talked to any of the players that have been on one or several????????????????????????:confused:

Duckfan
05-27-2006, 01:28 AM
.....And have you ever BEEN on an 8 hour bus ride, or talked to any of the players that have been on one or several????????????????????????:confused:
You hit the nail right on the head. A major reason for the financial success of the Atlantic League has been it's ability to attract big name former players from MLB. Can you really picture guys like Rickey Henderson, Carlos Baerga, Jose Canseco or Jose Lima signing up to play in a league that routinely has 8 hour bus rides? True, some Minor League teams do it but they're LOW Minors, Rookie Ball and Short Season A Leagues. Most Atlantic League players have been there and done that. I doubt very much that they would want to go back, even at the top pay scale of $3K a month.
It has nothing to do with life, or lack of it, south of the Mason-Dixon. I'm sure there's plenty of life down there. This has to do with common sense. If you don't have those big name players, you're not going to make a profit.

P.S. The Atlantic League already tried having a team in MD(Aberdeen). It failed miserably.

TimosMami2003
05-28-2006, 01:26 PM
Well said.

EyeOfTheStormers
05-28-2006, 02:21 PM
I just went to mapquest. The Drive time from Bridgeport, CT and Islip, NY to Waldorf, MD. is 5 hours and 15 minutes. I know that traffic is horrible around the NYC area but most bus rides will either be late at night or early morning. So I'll add an hour onto that. Now your looking at about 6 1/2 hours. Not really that tough. Nashua had to travel a lot farther to get to Lancaster. And I know they got out of the league, but like someone else said because of weather not travel. You guys talk like Waldorf is in the deep south or something. Its not that bad of a trip from anywhere in the AL.

Duckfan
05-28-2006, 04:51 PM
The biggest problem with Mapquest is that it ignores the congestion in and around New York City and on the I95 corridor. I routinely travel from my home on Long Island to my son's place in Northern NJ. The distance is 72 miles on the nose. Much of the trip is through suburban and rural areas at 65mph or better. I should be able to make that trip in a little over an hour, right? Wrong! On a good day it takes 2 hours. Your average speed through NYC at any time of the day or night is going to be 25mph. The Long Island Expressway, the Throgg's Neck Bridge, the Cross Bronx Expressway and the George Washington Bridge are all major traffic nightmares. (There is an alternate route through Brooklyn and Staten Island, but trust me, it won't save you any time). If the Mets or Yankees are playing a game, or if there is any kind of accident on the roadway, add 30 minutes to an hour. That's just to get to the Jersey side. (Bridgeport has the same problem). If you want to get to Waldorf MD, you now have the Jersey Turnpike and the Jersey Shore traffic to contend with. Jersey Shore traffic can make NYC seem like a walk in the park. Oops, it's not over yet, get though Jersey and you've got the Beltway in D.C. and Baltimore traffic to get past. Travel at night or in the early morning? Have you ever done it? That's when they do the road repairs. Five hours and fifteen minutes? In your dreams. You've obviously never been to NYC. If you really want to get an accurate picture, change your average speed to 35 mph in Mapquest.

EyeOfTheStormers
05-28-2006, 05:51 PM
The biggest problem with Mapquest is that it ignores the congestion in and around New York City and on the I95 corridor. I routinely travel from my home on Long Island to my son's place in Northern NJ. The distance is 72 miles on the nose. Much of the trip is through suburban and rural areas at 65mph or better. I should be able to make that trip in a little over an hour, right? Wrong! On a good day it takes 2 hours. Your average speed through NYC at any time of the day or night is going to be 25mph. The Long Island Expressway, the Throgg's Neck Bridge, the Cross Bronx Expressway and the George Washington Bridge are all major traffic nightmares. (There is an alternate route through Brooklyn and Staten Island, but trust me, it won't save you any time). If the Mets or Yankees are playing a game, or if there is any kind of accident on the roadway, add 30 minutes to an hour. That's just to get to the Jersey side. (Bridgeport has the same problem). If you want to get to Waldorf MD, you now have the Jersey Turnpike and the Jersey Shore traffic to contend with. Jersey Shore traffic can make NYC seem like a walk in the park. Oops, it's not over yet, get though Jersey and you've got the Beltway in D.C. and Baltimore traffic to get past. Travel at night or in the early morning? Have you ever done it? That's when they do the road repairs. Five hours and fifteen minutes? In your dreams. You've obviously never been to NYC. If you really want to get an accurate picture, change your average speed to 35 mph in Mapquest.

Actually I'm a truck driver and I travel NY (including NYC),NJ,PA,MD,DE,VA,WV regularly. I understand that traffic is going to play a part in it, and I mentioned that in my thread. I've traveled through jersey shore traffic. Jersey Shore traffic is barely anything to worry about. The Jersey Turnpike is one of the best roads in the country. I drive at night and during the day up and down the 95 corridor a couple times a week. I drive A LOT around the capital beltway. It's not that bad. Except between the hours of 8-11 on the weekdays. I'd say at the most it will take 7 hours. At the most. Still 7 or 8 hours is not going to kill a team. Many leagues travel a lot further. The great thing about baseball is also you don't travel every day. It's the beauty of 3 games series. Then still you will probably have roadtrips where you will go from Waldorf to Lancaster or Camden or both. That breaks up a lot of the travel.

Duckfan
05-29-2006, 11:13 PM
I guess you could say "that bad" is a relative term. I do not drive an over the road truck for a living. For me anything over 4 hours in a car or a bus is brutal. I will pay the extra bucks to fly rather than endure a trip like that.
I don't think you understand the Atlantic League. It is not made up of wide eyed rookies hoping to advance to a higher level in a Major League organization and who don't know any better. Guys like that will put up with a lot in order to get a shot at the brass ring. The Atlantic League has many players with Major League experience. The majority have been in AA ball or better. They've paid their dues. Their reason for playing in the Atlantic League is to show the Major League teams that they made a mistake when they released them. They certainly don't do it for the money. Top pay in the Atlantic League is 3K a month and very few players get it. The assistant manager at your local McDonalds makes more than an Atlantic League All-Star.
The level of play in the Atlantic League is generally said to be somewhere between AA and AAA. It gives experienced players the opportunity to showcase their talents at a high level of competition. Long bush league bus rides will drive those players away and reduce the quality of play. I've seen Can-Am(AKA Northern League) games. I'd hate to see the Atlantic League reduced to that level. I know I wouldn't pay to see it. I don't think many Atlantic League fans would.

HeadFirst
05-30-2006, 11:54 AM
If it matters so bloody much that the Atlantic League keep the length of their bus rides to a minimum, that's solvable: Have an imbalanced schedule so that the Northern and Southern teams aren't travelling through the apparently dreaded NYC corridor very often, and don't schedule Bridgeport to have a home game on Thursday followed by a series-opener in Waldorf on Friday.

Long bus rides are brutal. So are long plane trips. They are also, in a very real sense, part of the game, even part of the Atlantic League's game. I doubt seriously that Jose Lima will refuse to pitch for Newark because once or twice during the season he might have to be on a bus for five hours. The Atlantic League is still quite compact, compared with the Frontier, the Northern, the Golden, or the American Association. Bridgeport, after their Thursday home game, could travel to Somerset or Camden for a weekend series before heading south to York, Charles County and/or (eventually, I hope) Northern Virginia. There are no gaping holes in the Atlantic League map, unlike many other minor leagues of all sports.

And I keep reading about how terrible Aberdeen was as an AtL franchise, in spite of the backing of the Ripkens. Indeed it was. They averaged a ridiculously low attendance figure, something on the order of 250. They also played, literally, at a high school field, and Aberdeen isn't exactly a metropolis. The Ripkens were saying all along that they were building a multi-purpose baseball facility to house their own youth tournament as well as a professional franchise, preferably an Orioles affiliate. They've done that -- it's a beautiful collection of fields, too, with a Camden Yards-esque mini-warehouse replica -- and the Aberdeen Ironbirds of the NY-Penn League regularly sell out the entire season in advance, averaging over 5000 per game.