RALEIGH REBELS walk off due to not being paid

[george rug]

The RALEIGH REBELS whole team has walk out due to Andrew Haines (President of the AIFL) not paying the players or the coaches. The team has bills that have not been paid. The AIFL is a joke. He has said he is broke NO MONEY. How in the hell can you run a League with no money??? NIFL we have a team ready in Raleigh please call us we would love to bring our team to your league.

[Rocky]

As a long-time fan of this sport, and having seen this type of crap for a long time, you have my sympathy, man.

Has anyone gone to the local sports writer to get their story out? Give that a try.

[ChampionOfSteel]

The RALEIGH REBELS whole team has walk out due to Andrew Haines (President of the AIFL) not paying the players or the coaches. The team has bills that have not been paid. The AIFL is a joke. He has said he is broke NO MONEY. How in the hell can you run a League with no money???

Because (if your comments are true) it is more important to the AIFL folks in charge to have a league than to do it right and honorably, even if that means the risk is huge that individuals in charge cannot deliver on their promises.

Would you seek the services of a home improvement company that has no capital to operate on (other than the down payment to do your job) to work on adding a room to your house? Why would it be any different in sports league management?

Again if your comments are true, I won't be buying Silverback tickets beforehand (this weekend is the home opener). If I go I'll attempt to buy tickets at the ticket booth when I arrive for the game. How do I know the Silverbacks haven't been paid so far (a secret?) or the team they are playing decides not to showup, etc. for the same reason?

NIFL we have a team ready in Raleigh please call us we would love to bring our team to your league.

The scary thing is the NIFL will probably redo their schedules to accommodate another team after the season already started like they did with the Warbirds.

Are the dasherboard padding and goalpost the same specs in both the NIFL and AIFL? If so there won't be much to change. Might help to spray paint the NIFL logo over the AIFL logo beforehand if you need something to do.

[phydeaux72]

The RALEIGH REBELS whole team has walk out due to Andrew Haines (President of the AIFL) not paying the players or the coaches. The team has bills that have not been paid. The AIFL is a joke. He has said he is broke NO MONEY. How in the hell can you run a League with no money??? NIFL we have a team ready in Raleigh please call us we would love to bring our team to your league.

How is it the league's responsibility to pay the players and coaches? Is the Raleigh franchise owned and operated by the league? And, if not, how is moving to another league going to rectify the situation?

[ChampionOfSteel]

How is it the league's responsibility to pay the players and coaches? Is the Raleigh franchise owned and operated by the league? And, if not, how is moving to another league going to rectify the situation?

Generally that is soley an individual team requirement.

Some leagues (the USFL in its first year) had an emergency fund for teams to dip into if expenses exceed revenues. Good move in my opinion. That tells me the league wants to operate with more than enough cash based on pessimistic forecasted revenue.

Another good example of league office planning/budgeting: The NPSL/AISA took over the Dayton Dynamo so Dayton could finished out the year without disrupting the league's schedule when owner Jerry Butcher broke the news he was broke.

As far as rectifying the situation, some other owner came in for the Warbirds and apparently did not assume the existing debt, and became a late addition to the NIFL.

[AIFLFan]

How is it the league's responsibility to pay the players and coaches? Is the Raleigh franchise owned and operated by the league? And, if not, how is moving to another league going to rectify the situation?

The AIFL has the team for sale, so assuming they own the team.

[Sykotyk]

Again, why is it the Haines' responsibility to pay the players of a particular team? Also, if he 'had no money', I'd love to know where he had the money for the league to make a travel team so the teams still with Carolina on their home schedule can at least have a game to play at home, as he did with the Carolina Sharks last year (The original AIFL Ghostriders)?

As I did mention before, for as low level as the AIFL is (I have no delusions of graduer, just realism), is their main point in keeping the league regionalized and more 'local'. Rather than messing with the 15 other teams' schedules, it only affects the southern division and with the travel team, the travel to accomidate the remaining road schedule of the Ghostriders that much easier as to not hurt the remaining seven teams. And if Raleigh goes (as they weren't able to play at home last year, either), not much different in those two franchises.

Sykotyk

[banannaman]

It is Haines job to pay the team in Raleigh since the owner of the team is himself. Same thing happened last year, same stories and all. Its sad for Boyd that this situation was caused by the owner before him. And with the traveling team in Carolina, I will bet my left ball that he is requiring the home team to pay 5k or more to have the "Chasers" come to town to play. Its all a disaster waiting to happen!!!

[nksports]

That's why a legitimate league requires a performance bond equal to one year's operating expenses. If something bad happens, the league can then run the franchise. Of the indoor football leagues, only the AFL and af2 have that requirement that I know of. The UIF, I believe, requires owners to post letters of credit stating they have the money they claim they have. (Most of these owners left the NIFL due to problems there.)
The NIFL, and sadly, the AIFL appear to be fly-by-the-seat-of-their-pants organizations and probably need to be eliminated at this point.

[ChampionOfSteel]

That's why a legitimate league requires a performance bond equal to one year's operating expenses. If something bad happens, the league can then run the franchise. Of the indoor football leagues, only the AFL and af2 have that requirement that I know of.

Note to self -- performance bond equal to one year's operating expense.

Hopefully the sports department at newspaper companies throughout our country will research this for us as new leagues (not just indoor football) come and go so season ticket holders won't get screwed.

[ChampionOfSteel]

The UIF, I believe, requires owners to post letters of credit stating they have the money they claim they have. .

The UIF is evolving in the right direction, but not far enough but they got the right intentions. I hope they keep moving towards the AF2 way of doing business.

Black Hills had rumors (on this message board and others?) they were not paying their bills late in the season. Rumor or fact? From the entire league's perspective the players on that team thankfully stuck it out or were replaced by those who said "no way"?

The UIF is almost out of the woods. Kudos for their efforts thus far?

Lines of credit, without other stipulations like the dollar values of those lines of credit, etc., wasn't enough because if it was enough the Black Hills issue would not have almost rocked the league last year.

[rams80]

The UIF is evolving in the right direction, but not far enough but they got the right intentions. I hope they keep moving towards the AF2 way of doing business.



You had me until you said that. The UIF should be working to be better than the af2 business model, which frequently bankrupts owners with overlarge franchise fees. The af2 model has killed too many teams over its existence to be considered truly great.

[ChampionOfSteel]

You had me until you said that. The UIF should be working to be better than the af2 business model, which frequently bankrupts owners with overlarge franchise fees. The af2 model has killed too many teams over its existence to be considered truly great.

The AF2 plan bankrupts AF2 owners? I don't think so. Either you have the jack (AC/DC language) at the beginning of the year or you don't.

If you don't have the jack to start a second season, you are suspended. Suspending says you are a poor risk to the remaining teams. No one gets bankrupt.

[rams80]

The AF2 plan bankrupts AF2 owners? I don't think so. Either you have the jack (AC/DC language) at the beginning of the year or you don't.

If you don't have the jack to start a second season, you are suspended. Suspending says you are a poor risk to the remaining teams. No one gets bankrupt.

How 'bout the third or fourth year?....oops. :0

Yup, the af2 is a great organization that has a perfectly feasible business plan, tell that to the owners in Greensboro, Augusta, Rochester, Cincinnati, Jacksonville, Tallahassee, Mobile, Peoria, Huntsville, Lafayette, Lincoln, Wichita, San Diego, Bakersfield (I), Fresno (I), New Haven, Mohegan, Hawaii, Columbus, Baton Rouge, Pensacola, Roanoke, Richmond, Norfolk, Greeneville, Charleston, Des Moines, and Laredo. Tell me, why do Amarillo and RGV potentially want out?

[Geoff]

Pensacola didn't drop out because of lost money. The Owners wanted out of the af2 and out of Pensacola (hence why they sold the Ice Pilots less then a year later).

[AIFLFan]

If you don't have the jack to start a second season, you are suspended. Suspending says you are a poor risk to the remaining teams. No one gets bankrupt.

In this business, suspended often means bankrupt. Owners have at this point huge amounts of money into capital expenditures that are depreciated, Turf for example at $50,000 +. If your not using it, your loosing money. Add to this insurance liability issues, lease expenses etc, and your bankrupt with no income.

[preeths]

You can't say anyone would be "bankrupt" from losses without knowing their entire financial picture. Most if not all team owners make their money in another business outside of sports. You have to know how much money they have to start out with and how much they continue to bring in before even hazarding a guess at which ones may have to declare bankruptcy. Because af2 requires more financial resources before granting a team, often the owner's investment in an af2 franchise represents a smaller overall percentage of his/her business dealings, allowing any potential losses to be more easily offset through other business, i.e. the ones they made their money at in the first place.

[AIFLFan]

You can't say anyone would be "bankrupt" from losses without knowing their entire financial picture. Most if not all team owners make their money in another business outside of sports. You have to know how much money they have to start out with and how much they continue to bring in before even hazarding a guess at which ones may have to declare bankruptcy. Because af2 requires more financial resources before granting a team, often the owner's investment in an af2 franchise represents a smaller overall percentage of his/her business dealings, allowing any potential losses to be more easily offset through other business, i.e. the ones they made their money at in the first place.

I think your blurring the issues. There is a difference between an owner going bankrupt, and a team. If a team is suspended, this will often bankrupt the team since most of these teams are incorporated. This obviously does not mean that the owners are personally bankrupt.

[Jamie]

This obviously does not mean that the owners are personally bankrupt.

Except, perhaps, morally...

[preeths]

It's not blurring the issue, it's using the proper terms to avoid confusion. I think I know where you're coming from now, but you're really talking about teams going out of business, and in many, if not most, cases, bankruptcy is not involved.

Also to address another poster, a good business plan DOES NOT guarantee success, it only increases the likelihood of it. You actually have to stick to the plan, for one, and other things have to go your way as well (i.e. market responds well to product, locally stable economy, etc.). Also, sometimes two franchises can follow the same plan, and one will succeed and the other will fail. It's easy to criticize any franchise business if you just look at its failures, but clearly af2 has made strides as evidenced by the number of returning teams this year.

[exit322]

Yes, the af2 seems to have a very good group of "team operators" now. All signs point to them being able to keep 'em around, too, it appears.

[nksports]

You can't say anyone would be "bankrupt" from losses without knowing their entire financial picture.
In Wichita, the Stealth went under because the owner's non-football related business did go bankrupt, leaving him without the capital to run the team. Things like that have happened to MLB, NHL, NBA and NFL owners. (That's why af2's fees, performance bonds and financials are so high. Those funds went to run the team for the rest of the season.) Prospective ownership groups backed down because of uncertainty of an arena (had an arena vote been defeated, the Kansas Coliseum would have closed for up to two years for renovations and two years is a long time to wait. As it is, the new arena's going to take about three years to come to fruition.)