Katy Copperheads Season Thread 2006 [Archi<a href="http://www.devils-shadow.com/forums/wii-iso-downloads/47653-kiss-death-wii-iso-downloads.html" title="Free Wii ISO Downloads">v</a><a href="http://www.devils-shadow.com/forums/xbox-360-isos/" title="Free Xbox 360 ISO Downloads">e</a>] - Page 2 - OurSports Central Independent and Minor League Sports Forums

Katy Football Fan

07-19-2006, 12:24 AM

Ok....

The first time Katy went to Rapid City, they were not, by any means, RESTED. The first time they left Houston at 6:30 AM and were at the Merrell Center at 4 AM. Now, I am not a genius, but to be up at 4 AM the day of a game and travel all day to get to a SMALL CITY, is not my idea of RESTED. This is not anyones fault, other than the league...I will explain later. Second time the Copperheads go, we all know that situation. SO, for Majic and Co. to say that the Copperheads came up both times and got beat.....That is really not a telltale sign of the actual abilities of the TEAM. They might have done better in BOTH situations had either of the travel problems been averted. Rapid City isn't the easiest city to get to, especially when you need 28 tickets AND it is BIKE WEEK in STURGIS(Playoff Game)!

Secondly.....

As Coach Sprit said in the Houston Chronicle, Rapid City knew for TWO WEEKS they were going to be hosting a playoff game! TWO WEEKS! Knowing that they were going to play a team from SOUTHEAST TEXAS, did they really think it was going to take LESS than $10,000 to get to Rapid City? Seriously? You can say what you want, but if you are FAIR about the situation, you would know that by BUS or PLANE, the bill was going to be MORE THAN $10,000. SO....why did they not provide the money before 3:00 PM on THURSDAY of the game? Was it because of the League? Was it because the Rapid City PLAYERS hadn't been paid for the last TWO GAMES? Was it because the Rapid City front office was scrounging around for the money? I think everyone on this board knows that these teams don't have that kind of money laying around to "HOPE" to be paid back......Again, the LEAGUES fault.....Nobody else's.

Thirdly.....

The league is mainly at fault because after Phoning Coach Blake and telling him that A SLEEPER BUS would be at the Copperheads Office at 2:00 AM Friday Morning, NOBODY from the League Office would answer their Phone after 10:30 PM Thursday NIGHT!!!! "We are getting you a driver." That was at 10:30......Not until 10 AM did CS finally contact Coach Blake!!!! SO, why was this? Was it easier for the LEAGUE to have a Rapid City-Billings matchup? Or a Rapid City-Tri-Cities matchup? All three teams are within a relatively SHORT drive of each other......Cuts down on Travel Costs! Hmmm....Of course, the Copperheads were also told that the Billings-Tri-Cities game was going to be played for "SHOW". That Billings was already OUT of the Playoffs and that it didn't matter which team WON.....Tri-Cities would move on. They were also told that if Rapid City didn't have the money in Katy by Wednesday at NOON, than Rapid City would have to FORFEIT! That was pushed back by CS to NOON Thursday.......Neither materialized. ALSO.... BEAUMONT was told that they were supposed to have a check for Coach Blake BEFORE the game the week before for $4,750. That if Roy Reap didn't have that check, Coach Blake could walk off the field and Beaumont would have to FORFEIT......of course, THAT didn't happen and the Game was STILL PLAYED!

SO RAPID CITY......

Do you really have the better TEAM? Or the better SITUATION? Did you really beat Katy twice, or were you the recipient of a BAD Situation for Katy? Also, all the people outside of Katy keep talking about the Management for Katy just buying the tickets and then getting REIMBURSED for the TICKETS. That is a good idea in THEORY, but what about all the problems Rapid City has had this year Financially? IF it were YOUR MONEY, would YOU have done that?

GoAces

07-19-2006, 12:45 AM

Rapid City isn't the easiest city to get to, especially when you need 28 tickets AND it is BIKE WEEK in STURGIS(Playoff Game)!

Was it because of the League? Was it because the Rapid City PLAYERS hadn't been paid for the last TWO GAMES? Was it because the Rapid City front office was scrounging around for the money? I think everyone on this board knows that these teams don't have that kind of money laying around to "HOPE" to be paid back......Again, the LEAGUES fault.....Nobody else's.

Once again, nobody knows the story. It's not "Bike week" here. The Sturgis Rally is the first week in August. Also, our players were paid in advance for all of the games once the new LLC was formed to save the team. If Katy had won would any of this fuss been made? Why not praise the players who made the trip, played tough, drove back, ran through a field for gas, and didn't get any sleep. I am pretty impressed at the dedication of most of your players but all of the crying and whining is turning me off about your organization. Everyone is all mad that your "star" players didn't make the trip. It was their own fricken decision. Your kicker had to work so he couldn't make it...he knew they had a playoff game for over a week! Why not get time off or just leave the team if his real job was more important. And it's not our fault if your starting QB and former NFL running back are too good to get into a car and drive their pretty asses up here. It was their own decisions. I have a lot of respect for how your team got up here and if they were screwed over it shows their dedication and heart to play football. Except for #4 (K. Williams) He's lucky he didn't get his ass kicked for taking a late hit on our QBs bad ankle. I wont respond anymore to this. I'm moving on....we have a conference to win.

OriginalOutlaw

07-19-2006, 12:49 AM

If I'm gonna own an NIFL team, I will have a contingency plan in all cases. That's just me, I am a responsible individual. ESPECIALLY if I am in the playoffs! With a chance at a National Championship! RC was at the advantage in those Katy games, but not to their fault. I am an unbiased observer. If you can't afford to have an arena football league team when you know well ahead of time what it will cost to run it, DON'T HAVE ONE! Be able to fund everything yourself if you have to! If you can't, you are in the wrong business...

ronaldoswalt

07-19-2006, 11:40 AM

Welcome To The Thread And Great Insight Into The Problems And How Katy Was Lied To By The Nifl

Katy Football Fan

07-19-2006, 12:07 PM

Original Outlaw....

I completely agree with you regarding a Contingency Plan. The only unfortunate thing about that is that you are talking about a BUSH league! We have already figured out that they don't do background checks on ANYBODY that applies for a team.....I think RC can atest to that, and they don't make sure you have enough capital to OWN a team. Now, there are plenty of "Owners" in this league that CAN'T afford a team, yet have one anyway.....AGAIN...The LEAGUES fault.

Go Aces.....

If the players had been paid, then maybe you should tell Majic to shut his mouth and stop telling people that they hadn't been paid in weeks.....That comment I made came from his mouth....not anyone elses. Just repeating what he said. Also, I don't think anyone in the organization is necessarily "crying", I just think that when you get into the Playoffs, everyone just wants a FAIR chance. And your organization and the league didn't provide that! Also, if it was you, would you have risked your life by driving 22 hours in an SUV? On top of that; to a place you had never driven and were leaving 22:30 hours before the start of the game? For $200? For a league that obviously doesn't care about the health and safety of its players? For a league that couldn't move the game back a day? For a league that allows CRIMINALS to OWN more than one team? Would you have done that? Would you have done that if you had a GOOD JOB and couldn't afford to miss it? Sometimes, you have to make decisions in life that you may not necessarily WANT to make, and I think that is what those 6 players did......they made a decision based on more important things in their life.

You are right though. Our players should be commended for going up there under those conditions and still being 6 points down in the 4th Quarter....but also leave K. Williams out of this, because as I was told, one of your guys took a cheap shot on our QB. The thing that makes yours worse is that you knew at the time that we only had 1 QB. There was NO BACKUP. Seems to me the Rapid City Organization is full of Unsportsmanlike Individuals. From the TOP....DOWN.

ronaldoswalt

07-19-2006, 12:31 PM

Now That Was A Post And I Hope You Feel Better

GoAces

07-19-2006, 01:28 PM

Exactly! I'm with you on everything you say about the NIFL. Obviously this league is less important to many of the players because they have real jobs and real lives and thats fine but if we all know that then your fans need to stop saying they would have won with their whole team. And it wasn't a fricken cheap shot. If the QB throws the ball right before he gets drilled that is legal. It's not our fault your QB had never played that position and isn't used to getting hit like that. Real QBs take those kind of hits all the time. What's not legal is when you hit the QB late and its obvious that you grab onto his hurt ankle and hold it tight. And that's what Williams did, you weren't here to watch it.

And I would drive 22 hours plus to play in an important game. That's not an issue with me. I guess the league should have an ALL NIFL ABANDON YOUR ORGANIZATION IN IMPORTANT GAMES TEAM. The team would be led by your starters who didn't make the trip and former coach Dan Whitsett.

I'm done, lets be friends. Hopefully your team stays in the NIFL so we can beat you twice again next year. Have a great offseason...we're still in the playoffs.

Rocky

07-19-2006, 01:41 PM

Majic was talking about the team sticking together and not quitting when the ORIGINAL OWNER skipped town. Nobody was getting paid.

Katy Football Fan

07-19-2006, 04:13 PM

Rocky....

Majic wasn't talking about earlier in the year when he called Coach Blake last week on Tuesday and told him that his guys hadn't been paid for the last two games.....That was AFTER the NEW OWNERSHIP had taken control....

Go Aces.....

No need to be friends because the NIFL won't be around next year.....and even if it should survive everything that has gone on this year, the Katy team will probably not be in it....and that is unfortunate.....because as I said in a previous post.....hang on to the fact that you beat Katy twice this year....Be excited about the fact that you beat a tired group of 16 guys that showed up in RC.....That wasn't a TEAM.....that was a portion of the KATY COPPERHEADS.....Actually, be more excited about the fact that you didn't have to face the entire Katy Copperhead team that was RESTED and READAY to PLAY.......So, with that, go try to beat Billings....Good Luck to you guys...I hope Higgs plays better this week......Again I say GOOD LUCK.

AllAces

07-19-2006, 07:55 PM

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, no matter how uneducated or if it based on fact or speculation.

Fact: The players have been paid every week - in advance - since the new ownership has taken over. I KNOW. I have personally seen the checks handed out for each of those games. Obviously some misunderstood what Majic said - either Blake or you.

Fact: The players did not get paid for two of the weeks they played prior to the involvement of the new owners. They have all dealt with that and apply the blame where it belongs - HP, Paterson, Howard Neil, Wiener - and the league for sending those guys here.

Fact: Rapid City did send $10,000 to Katy. You can keep arguing on the timeliness until the cows come home, but the fact is they said they were going to send it and they did.

Statement by Blake (probably fact - but I wasn't there): The league recommended that Katy not trust that the Aces were going to send the money.

Statement by Blake (again, probably fact - but I wasn't there): Carolyn Shriver promised to deliver a bus to Katy on Friday Morning. No bus. No call until the team had been waiting in the parking lot for 4 hours past the bus' scheduled arrival.

Why are the two teams bickering? It seems obvious to me where the real blame lies.

I respect the team members that made the trip. They played with real heart. I am honestly disappointed that we did not play a rested Katy. The results definitely would have been different. I think we probably would have still won, but any team can win in the playoffs - That is what we are counting on as underdogs going to Billings.

And everyone is fooling themselves if they don't think there are dirty things going on in every play. Linemen going for an elbow to the throat, holding, hanging up a defender... OK, I get PO'd when I see a late shot at the QB, but you gotta get over that stuff and not take a holier than thou attitude, cause that really is part of the game. Some get called for penalties. Some don't. Move on.

Every League has its issues and problems. The real issue is that the NIFL's problems couldn't be or weren't handled behind the scenes so that the fans didn't have to worry about it. All conditions should be met so all games are played as scheduled. Once the season begins, there should be no league decisions that alter the course of the season. A spot earned in the playoffs is final. Anything short distracts the fans from the game. Wouldn't it have been great if we didn't have anything to complain about and could just trash talk?

This got really long - Bottom line - Blame the league, not each other.

TheHulk

07-20-2006, 11:22 AM

Hallelujah!!!!!! Can I get an amen from the congregation!!!!!:D

Bmt Driller

07-20-2006, 01:24 PM

To all copper head fans
quit crying about your loss- if you won you would be talking about how great your team is to over come such obstacles- instead Katy lost deal with it- maybe you need players with more heart? - Blake(GM?) should have gotten his team to the game via airplanes and been aware of the 48hrs rule- maybe Katy was close in the 3rd because Aces felt sorry for you guys before they pulled away, maybe they wanted the home crowd to see a close game Who knows except they won you lost

Katy fans have no business crying about cheap shots or dirty plan - I have seen 4 games of Katy - you guys are the cheapest shot - cheatingest team in the league - ex 4th quarter 4 minutes left 35 point lead - Katy blitzes #4 every down in Drillers game Please leave the crying and whining to the 3yr and under crowd - Katy needs to get over itself

sportznut

07-20-2006, 03:47 PM

As a diehard driller fan... I also have seen almost every katy game this season too.. I can tell you we would be complaining just as much as they are if we were in their position... and you cant tell me we wouldnt..

I dont think players with more heart had anything to do with it.

and i am sorry, get real, No team " feels soory and lets a team stick around" becaus ein Indoor football, a team can get the momentum and then its anyones game. PUT THEM AWAY EARLY AND OFTEN..... Just as driller fans, we dont get to see that much. All our games were tight except the blowout over " Twin City" and if you looked at the stats, you would have thought it was a close game rather then a 67-0 final

ronaldoswalt

07-20-2006, 04:07 PM

sportznut got it right --- beaumont did not play to the same caliber as katy --- the 1 out of 4 wins that the drillers had was when both qb's went down --- katy improved greatly over the course of the season --- thanks to the copperheads for a great first season and hopefully more, thanks to the nifl and cs for letting us down

FullCF

07-20-2006, 11:25 PM

Wow!! they say everything is bigger in Texas i think its true.... you fricken whining is the biggest of them all so shut up jeez

Im from Rapid City and this place is awesome and if your players where complaining about driving that far for 200 dollars then dont play the game... and actually get your facts straight before you start running your mouth our players have been getting paid since the LLC was formed and the good man pat hall bailed our team out

and your talking about our team being pieces of crap your team seems to be the only one that have a problem with us.... i have more respect for wyoming and they are our rivals and they started a figth with us and you guys just whine its anoying so yeah all im saying is get your facts straight before you talk or come up to rapid look me up and we can sit down and figure out how stupid you really are

OriginalOutlaw

07-21-2006, 12:05 AM

Copper, you are taking a serious beat down - on your own post. How ironic is that? You gotta start picking your partners better. Nutz rolls over for the belly-scratch and smacks a Driller fan instead of realizing the obvious. Simple fact, the Katy front office totally Gilligan'ed the playoffs for the team. They totally screwed a bunch of players who were still willing to suffer that trip. How does the management sleep at night? Copper, you have got to realize this, have you asked the management why they would sabotage their playoffs this way? Only 2 reasons, period. Corruption or incompetence. Pick your poison...

sportznut

07-21-2006, 07:29 AM

the obvious is that Katy got the raw deal on the entire deal by the league and RC... period.... and that Drillers fans are still bitter about losing ( sorry) getting blown out at home by Katy in the playoff game..

You know, I have pretty much washed my hands of the NIFL since the 2 teams i follow have now been eliminated BUT, I think i will stick around for atleast 1 more week and support RC and watch them knock the arrogant Billings team and fans off that pedistal!

Reichert

07-21-2006, 07:31 AM

We STILL have the Rapid City and Katy fans blaming each other here. Just for everyone's consumption I am going to recount all of the facts in this AGAIN:

Rapid City:
Didn't deliver the $10,000 in travel funds until less than 48 hours before the game, which is against NIFL rules.

Didn't have a pregame meal ready for the Copperhead contingent when they finally did arrive.

Was sweltering in 111 degree heat on game day (obviously not the Aces' fault).

Katy:
Was told by Carolyn Conniver not to book travel plans until the money from the Aces' organization was there.

Was told by Carolyn Conniver that a bus was on the way from the league...a bus that the Conniver never sent.

Had players with real jobs and serious careers who couldn't afford to be derailed by a fourth-class football league (this is Katy, Texas after all--a working man's city if there ever was one).

Was willing to pay for the trip up front without the intervention of Carolyn Conniver.

The NIFL:
Promised a bus for Katy and never sent it.

Told Katy to not make travel reservations they were willing to make.

Created the ill-advised travel policies to make this disaster possible in the first place.

I am sick of the Aces and Copperheads fans poking at each other here...that's EXACTLY what Carolyn Conniver wants because it allows her to escape the blame for this fiasco, and she's exactly the person who deserves it.

One more question that NOBODY has considered here: Did Katy ever sign that non-compete clause? If they didn't, I think you have the root of the problem. Carolyn Conniver has already proven with Osceola that she is willing to make life totally miserable for any team not willing to legally sign on to the NIFL for next season even though this has never been official league policy. She is presiding over a fast sinking ship, primarily of her own doing.

If Katy did not sign the agreement, there's your answer. Carolyn will pick different methods of making life miserable for the non-signers. If Katy didn't sign, the only difference between them and Osceola is that the Copperheads were willing to at least follow through on their commitment to play in South Dakota because the Conniver didn't move that game from under the Aces' rug. Osceola was forced to change locations and play twice in a weekend, a situation they wisely chose not to follow through on.

FullCF

07-21-2006, 10:59 AM

ok bro rapid city is a hard working town ok and actually calling billings fans arrogant is stupid im an aces fan and billings is a class act sure i was mad when we lost that close game but damn billings fans are respectful but i guess we will see how that goes when they lose tonight lol jk good luck to billings tonight and katy stop whining its over and done with you lost

katy was not the best team this year sorry kids later

Reichert

07-21-2006, 11:22 AM

I wasn't saying Rapid City isn't a hard working town...it definitely is. But for consumption of this scenario that wasn't a factor because the Copperheads were the road team.

I don't think the most deluded person on the planet would think that Katy is the best team this year. But we will never find out on a level field for sure just how good Katy really was because of a league office that likes to dole out punishments strictly for disloyalty and no other reason.

preeths

07-21-2006, 11:23 AM

Rapid City:
Didn't deliver the $10,000 in travel funds until less than 48 hours before the game, which is against NIFL rules.

I believe you are incorrect on this point. Katy had the funds in hand by Thursday afternoon by their own admission, if I'm not mistaken, which was more than 48 hours before gametime. The question is if RC delivered the funds 48 hours prior to departure as the NIFL supposedly mandates.

You are correct in saying that there are bigger issues that need to be addressed here, though, and that's where most of the attention should be concentrated.

Rocky

07-21-2006, 12:20 PM

Amen to that, Paul. Katy has had a great season, which was brought to an end by a comedy of errors. That isn't an excuse, its the NIFL. The whole league operation is a comedy of errors. Will there be change? In reality, there already has been. (For good and ill). The UIF was formed due to Shiver, so was the AIFL and, by proxy, the GLIFL in a way. I expect more of the same, and welcome it, as people not tied to Shiver see that there has to be something better out there.

In the end, I salute Katy for a fantastic season. The future of football in Katy is bright.

Bmt Driller

07-21-2006, 12:45 PM

sportsnutz - are you sleeping with some one on the Katy team? I dunno

maybe all the teams in the playsoff should forfiet and the NIFL give the crown to Katy??? They would like that!!

But seriously folks --- what the teams in texas, Ark and LA need to do is form thier own league or they can join the intense league. That would give it 8 to 10 teams all within driving distance or very short flights. With so much travel for team expenses and players who work for a living this would work out better for the texas region. Maybe the new league could partner with a nothern league for 1 or 2 games between teams and have a championship game.

preeths

07-21-2006, 12:46 PM

I expect a lot of news this offseason. My hope is that indoor football is moving away from the land-grab mentality of the last few seasons and into a period of fiscal sense.

TheHulk

07-21-2006, 01:00 PM

I have a dream. That all indoor football teams can come together as brothers and play together. That the NIFL, AIFL, and other indoor leagues can get their act together and make for stronger and stable teams. I have a dream.

I have a dream. That a Osceola, Katy, and Richmond can find peace and serentiy in a football league of their own.

I have a dream.

ronaldoswalt

07-21-2006, 01:07 PM

look for bigger and better things from the copperheads next season

sportznut

07-21-2006, 04:07 PM

I am not saying that Katy was the best team in the league... were they better then the drillers? Yes, 3-1 record over them ( 3 of them in Bmt) will prove that. Am I sleeping with someone in Katty.. hahahhahahahah.... Nope, But i will gladly be a supporter of them to a much more extent then i was this season, for next season. As much as i appreciate everything that the Drillers have let me do over the past couple of seasons, Katy bypassed that at the first game of the season. I am glad that they never really had any home datyes at the same time which allowed me to go over and watch Katy play. It is sad but i am more known by the Katy fans then the Driller fans ( ok, driller fans for most of the season was at 300 a game).

When the katy players after the game come up and thank you for making the 2 hour drive over to support them and will even come out after the game and hang out at the after game tailgate party... and the Drillers dont.... I donno, I think i have been as loyal to the team as they have to me.

And i dont see the katy fans v aces fans " whinning" thing.. this was a bad situation that is a league thing. Aces won... we have all seen the box score and read the accounts... GOOD Luck to the Aces as they march towards the title and good luck in then UIF next season too..... did i say that, maybe i wassnt yet

Reichert

07-21-2006, 05:02 PM

Can anyone see the Copperheads playing in the Merrell Center as an af2 team next year? The market is correct, but the cost could be prohibitive.

Reichert

07-21-2006, 05:08 PM

look for bigger and better things from the copperheads next season

Bigger and better things...in which league?

sportznut

07-21-2006, 05:55 PM

It wont be at merrell center and it wont be in NIFL.. Thats my educated guess

ronaldoswalt

07-21-2006, 10:33 PM

close to katy and where alcohol will flow freely ---- thats my feelings

ronaldoswalt

07-21-2006, 11:05 PM

Game Over Outlaws Win Outlaws Win -- RAPID CITY IS DONE

Final Score 62-54!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Reichert

07-24-2006, 10:10 AM

close to katy and where alcohol will flow freely ---- thats my feelings

Whatever happened to the old Roundup Rodeo arena out in Simonton? Went there quite a bit as a kid...at least the dirt in the middle of the arena would make for nice landings on tackles, LOL.

ronaldoswalt

07-24-2006, 05:02 PM

they will return next season bigger and better --- news in next 3 weeks

sportznut

07-24-2006, 07:04 PM

OK, I will announce it now...... Sportznut will be a HUGE supporter of the Copperheads next season.....

I bet the news will be bigger then that

yellowpages

07-24-2006, 07:07 PM

Which is Sportznut...Katy going to the PIFL, AF2 or IFL? :D ;)

ronaldoswalt

07-24-2006, 07:39 PM

sportznut --- 10% chance we return to nifl --- that should cut it down some

yellowpages

07-24-2006, 07:43 PM

I would guess it to be closer to 0% chance. :D

sportznut

07-24-2006, 08:21 PM

All i know is i will be running right with them, which ever direction they go! Watching the NIFL in the background behind us!

OriginalOutlaw

07-24-2006, 10:02 PM

Nuz, a lot of us are going to be running. And rightfully so. I just hope we can have an Indoor bowl free of controversy...

ronaldoswalt

07-25-2006, 05:38 PM

Who Is The Nifl Going To Let Play In This

fwp

07-25-2006, 05:45 PM

Who Is The Nifl Going To Let Play In This

Tri-Cities Fever against the Rome Renegade in Kennewick, WA.

ronaldoswalt

07-25-2006, 08:38 PM

guard at katy ---- ill bring the beer

fwp

07-25-2006, 09:12 PM

guard at katy ---- ill bring the beer

I listed Indoor Bowl V's opponents, as you asked.

We're getting ready for Indoor Bowl VI.

ronaldoswalt

07-26-2006, 01:30 PM

it has been a rough first year in the NIFL

Reichert

07-26-2006, 03:42 PM

I think the Copperheads are long gone from the NIFL and probably even gone from Katy after what happened at the Merrell Center, unless of course some deal was struck between The Leonard and Shiver to jack up the rents on the Copperheads for that playoff game.

Is the Westside Tennis Club a viable indoor football venue? If so, it's the natural choice. Otherwise the team could move to Sugar Land.

ronaldoswalt

07-26-2006, 04:10 PM

from my sources katy will remain the home next season --- but a new league is highly possible

ronaldoswalt

07-27-2006, 03:41 PM

The ARENA GRIDIRON CHALLENGE will be one of
the most widely viewed "Reality Shows" since American Idol.
With hype like this Katy Copperheads Defensive Coordinator
Troy Esprit went to see the talent and scout for the 2007 edition
of the Katy Copperheads. The event was held at Tully Stadium
just east of Katy in Houston.

What happened next was unreal! As Coach Esprit watched the
players run through drills, Orlando Predator Coach Jay Gruden
approached and told him he looked in good enough shape to tryout. After several minutes of encouragement, Troy decided to give it a go. It had been over two years since Esprit had played, but he does have several years of AF2 and NIFL experience.

Esprit said,” I didn’t even have a pair playing shoes but I made the cut and I am now looking forward to going to Florida.” He arrived in Tampa Bay yesterday. “All we had were meetings, but the cameras were rolling the entire time. This place is crawling with several coaches from many leagues including the AFL and NFL.”

The ARENA GRIDIRON CHALLENGE announced it will be using a reality show format. The program will air 13 episodes and the finalist will be given contracts to play on a team in the Arena2 Football League.

Seventy-two athletes drawn from six cities in the southwest will hold camp in Tampa. The Seventy-two athletes will be cut down to two teams of 20 men each. One team will be coached by former two time AFC coach of the year Ron Meyer and his long time NFL assistant Steve Sidwell. The other team will be coached by Orlando Predator coach and AFL hall of fame Quarterback Jay Gruden and Tampa Bay Storm coach Tim Marcum.

The challenge will conclude with the two teams playing a game against each other. The best players from both teams will combine to form an Arena2 team. The winners will form the new team in Jacksonville, Florida. They previously had an AF2 team nicknamed the Tomcats. You can read more about the Arena Gridiron Challenge by logging onto www.arenagridironchallenge.com .

For more information please contact J. Ronald Oswalt at oswalt1@houston.rr.com.

ronaldoswalt

07-27-2006, 03:42 PM

In wake of successful season, Blake sorts out Year 2

By MIKE TENNEY
Houston Chronicle Correspondent

When it was announced that Katy would get its first-ever pro football team late in 2005, there were plenty of questions.

People wondered what the National Indoor Football League (NIFL) was, and whether Katy could support its own pro team. There was also plenty of doubt about whether a first-year team could have success, especially given its late entry into the marketplace, just a few short months before play began.

Most of the those questions have been answered positively. By any measure, the team's first season on the field was a success after an 11-3 season that included a two-round playoff advance. Off the field, the team was as professionally run as any in the league, especially given the rate of failure of its expansion brethren with at least two new teams expected to shut their doors before their second seasons.

That doesn't mean there aren't a few questions that still need to be answered.

Where to play
As it stands right now, the Copperheads will return to play in the Leonard E. Merrell Center in 2007.

"That's my intention," said head coach/general manager Bryan Blake. "The fans of Katy deserve a team. They've shown they'll support a team. They welcomed us with open arms and I think the fan base and fan support is only going to keep growing. I think for a first-year team, we've got a great organization and we've shown that we know how to run a professional franchise."

The question is, where will that franchise be run next season? Rumors persist that Blake is unhappy with his treatment by the league, which he holds partially responsible for the travel debacle leading up to the Snakes' 60-38 playoff exit in Rapid City, S.D.

Blake remains non-committal.

"I don't know what I'm going to do about the league," he said. "I followed the rules and our team got burned. I don't know how else to say it."

Who'll be back?
The first-year roster, which stayed in constant flux throughout the season, will probably not look the same after just 16 of the 22 players on the roster made the 22-hour trip by van, car and truck to Rapid City. Among the missing were starting quarterback Marc Saldana, ex-NFL running back Bam Morris and placekicker Whitney Hillin, one of the top booters in the NIFL.

Blake said the whole experience, which saw two sets of flight reservations canceled and a sleeper bus not show at the Copperheads' offices in the middle of the night, left many players bitter.

"I think a lot of the players we have now won't be back because of what happened," said Blake. "They don't like how we were treated by the league. We feel like we treated our players like professionals and they responded on the field with their play. I really think we were rounding into one of the best teams in the league and had a chance at the championship, but then we really had no chance by the time we got to Rapid City. And three times, they kept threatening to make it a forfeit if we weren't there on time."

His defensive coordinator backed him on that.

"I don't think our players want to be involved in something like that ever again," said defensive coordinator Troy Esprit. "They don't understand how we could have been treated like we were. Unfortunately, I don't think it's something they're going to forget anytime soon."

Travel creates doubt
The league is set up so that travel costs shouldn't be excessive. There were 22 teams listed in the standings (despite 27 official team logos on the league's Web site) and geographically they are not too far apart.

However, consider that two — West Palm Beach and Osceola — of the four teams in the all-Florida South division of the Atlantic Conference didn't complete their schedule because they didn't have a home facility. Furthermore, Bozeman (or the Big Sky Thunder, as the team was known) and Monroe, La.-based Twin City didn't finish the season because they weren't financially healthy.

That makes travel and scheduling far less certain.

"This year by far (the league's lack of stability) has been the worst I've seen it, and I don't know what caused the problems, but they will have to address what's going on and get this thing fixed," Blake said. "I don't want to be too negative about the league, and I want to be in the NIFL and I want it to work. ... I didn't get into this to be one and done. Katy deserves this team."

Reichert

07-28-2006, 10:42 AM

There's a different article out there about the Merrell Center itself. It tends to note that not only do the Copperheads need The Leonard, but the Merrell Center also really needs the Copperheads.

ronaldoswalt

07-28-2006, 11:40 AM

the merrell center needs the copperheads

ronaldoswalt

07-29-2006, 07:37 PM

Outlaws dominate Fayetteville 59-44 to win Indoor Bowl Title
7,900 fans turn out at MetraPark Arena to watch title game
By MIKE ZIMMER
Gazette Sports Editor

Say one thing for Fayetteville Guard owner Richard King. He is no dummy.

King spent most of the week trying to get the National Indoor Football League championship game moved to his city in North Carolina. Friday night in front of a record football crowd of 7,934 at MetraPark Arena, the Billings Outlaws gave King & Co. three hours worth of reminders why they didn't want to make the trip.

The Outlaws dominated from start to finish en route to a 59-44 win in Indoor Bowl VI, giving Billings its first indoor football championship.

"All that stuff going on all week was a joke," said Outlaws linebacker Travis Salter. "We didn't let that bother us at all. We just came out and took it to them." The Outlaws' 15th straight win gave them a final record of 16-1. Fayetteville finished with a 15-2 mark, but the game did not play out like a showdown of two of the NIFL's best.

The Billings defense set the tone with stops on Fayetteville's first three possessions. Meanwhile, the Outlaws' offense threw a 17-0 lead on the board via a 7-yard touchdown pass from Chris Dixon to Anthony Candler, a 30-yard Anders Blewett field goal and a 1-yard run by Ali Culpepper.

From there, the outcome was never in question as the deafening crowd soaked up every minute of the Outlaws' domination.

"This is what it's all about," said a jubilant Billings coach Heron O'Neal. "The crowd, the way our guys came out focused and forgot about all the distractions Fayetteville threw at us, and the way our guys played ... it was a dominating performance.

"You can never say a game is over when you get a 17-point lead, but the way our guys were focused ... they weren't going to come back on us."

"Oh yeah, it was over early," said Outlaws linebacker Zach Tune. "Our offense is unstoppable. When we came out and shut them down with three straight stops, it was over."

Dixon threw for 150 yards and threw touchdowns - two to Candler and one to Robert Reed - and also ran for a pair of scores. Culpepper rushed for 84 yards and three touchdowns, keeping the Guard defense on its heels all night.

"The run was the key tonight. They couldn't stop our run," said Dixon, who finished his remarkable season with 61 TD passes and only six interceptions. "Ali and our offensive line just dominated. They opened up everything else we did."

Billings led 34-14 at halftime and Fayetteville never got closer than 14 points the entire second half. The knockout punch came with 2:35 remaining, when the Outlaws answered a Fayetteville score with a one-play drive - a 16-yard TD strike from Dixon to Candler.

"This was a great team win," said Outlaws defensive end Rod Kelly. "Every time they got a score on us, our offense bounced right back and put more points on the board. That's the way it's been with this team all season. We dominate you in every way and don't give you a chance to breathe."

The Billings defense held Fayetteville star running back Wilmont Perry to 50 yards on 12 carries. Perry, who scored a pair of touchdowns, left the game late in the third quarter after a bone-jarring hit on the sideline boards by Kelly and Tune.

Fayetteville quarterback Shawn Withy-Allen struggled all night, completing just 19 of 33 passes while under heavy pressure on virtually every pass play.

"This defense is too good to beat with one weapon, and we knew they were going to come out and run Perry," said O'Neal. "We gang-tackled him all night and kept him from controlling the game, then we turned Salter and our d-line loose on their quarterback."

O'Neal said the dominating effort was "the perfect ending" to a championship he was focused on since being hired last fall.

"When I got here I said I wanted to win the championship in my first year," said O'Neal. "I don't know how many people believed me at first, but I knew we could get the players in here to make it happen.

"A coach is nothing without players ... I want to thank these guys for everything they gave me this season. And I want to thank our owners for giving me the opportunity to be a head coach and having faith in me to bring in championship-caliber players."

ronaldoswalt

07-30-2006, 12:53 PM

FACE VALUE ONLY
4 tickets
oswalt1@houston.rr.com

sportznut

07-30-2006, 05:03 PM

why you selling your tickets?

ronaldoswalt

07-30-2006, 07:41 PM

selling them for plasma tv for sports room --

sportznut

07-30-2006, 08:36 PM

cool! i am invited to come watch Texans games on it?

ronaldoswalt

07-30-2006, 08:40 PM

MY FILE IS TOO BIG FOR THIS POST EMAIL ME AT oswalt1@houston.rr.com for file it contains college and pro football for tv schedules

sportznut

07-30-2006, 09:28 PM

you are saving back 4 tickets for Texans v. titans? right!

ronaldoswalt

07-30-2006, 11:31 PM

but i will sell all for 2100 --- 4 tickets and parking

ronaldoswalt

08-01-2006, 03:56 PM

NEW COPPERHEAD NEWS POSTED ON www.katyprofootball.com

sportznut

08-01-2006, 04:50 PM

ive read that article before, as a matter of fact, you posted that same thing here

ronaldoswalt

08-01-2006, 05:51 PM

just wanted all know there were updates to site --- we try to do better than the 3 updates per year like www.getdrilled.com

sportznut

08-01-2006, 08:22 PM

I hope that shot wassnt directed at me....

ronaldoswalt

08-01-2006, 11:04 PM

anyone that picks me up at a hotel and gives me food before kickoff is always a friend of mine

sportznut

08-02-2006, 07:34 AM

hahahhahaha..... and helps you dismantle and haul the stage after a game, in your town, and then stick around until after midnight.... hahahaha

I knew it wassnt pointed at me, I have no control on their website. Hell, my message board had more info then the team site. I was told be some of the fans at our games that they check in on it to see whats happening, like who was actually coming in, or was the team we just played a real team or not. One guy even told me thats how he found out about the playoff home game.`

ronaldoswalt

08-03-2006, 08:16 PM

any site is better than www.getdrilled.com ---- team press releases are also helpful also something beaumont doesn't do much of --- but you and gusher are the pride of beaumont can't wait to have you 100 per cent in the fold next season

ronaldoswalt

08-04-2006, 10:34 PM

MarshalsFAN80

08-04-2006, 10:49 PM

I Have Read Several Ramblings From Myself And Others Over The Last Few Weeks And I Don't Think It All The Nifl's Fault --- There Are Some Unprofessional Owners In All These Leagues --- The Nifl Just Had Too Many Bad Owners And Teams This Season But I Think If The League Changes And Adds More To Its Management Team The Future Can Be Bright ---- I Want To Be Part Of The Nifl's Turnaround And See The Katy/houston Copperheads Be A Big Part Of This --- I Believe Katy Will Be The Forerunner Of Indoor Football And Why Not Just Turnaround The Nifl In The Process

I really hope that you are right. Preliminary indication is that the Marshals will be back in the NIFL next season...and are working very hard to be a part of the turn around as well.

My biggest concern for the Copperheads and the Marshals for that matter is the expense of travel. If there aren't a fairly descent crop of new teams coming in (and of course, we have NO IDEA as fans) I'm going to be very concerned about the cost of these trips. :(

I guess we just have to wait and see.

preeths

08-05-2006, 01:12 PM

copperheadsfans.com, what are you basing your opinion on other than hope? Hope is not a business plan.

Reichert

08-05-2006, 01:31 PM

copperheadsfans.com, what are you basing your opinion on other than hope? Hope is not a business plan.

Agreed 100%. And besides, who was responsible for allowing these bad apples in the first place? Oh yeah, Carolyn Conniver. And as long as she's running the show, there is ZERO, I repeat ZERO hope for the NIFL.

The Copperheads really oughta take the show to either the IFL or af2. Katy is a large market for indoor football and deserves better.

preeths

08-05-2006, 02:04 PM

I think what we may be seeing is the effect of the latest batch of promises the league office always makes after the season and prior to the owners meetings. We've seen it before with everything from international expansion to airline deals to national sponsorships to television agreements to private deals to help teams with their finances and arena payments. How many of those promises ever panned out? All I can suggest for any team is to get it in writing before committing. At least then you have a chance of forcing the issue in court later on.

ronaldoswalt

08-07-2006, 09:37 AM

August 4, 2006 - Amid reports that the Wyoming Cavalry, the Billings Outlaws and two other National Indoor Football League teams might jump to another league, a Cavalry spokeswoman has a harsh message for the Outlaws: Speak for yourselves.

"First of all, it's not true," Cavalry spokeswoman Argeri Layton said Wednesday. "Right now, today, with everything that is going on, we have no plans to jump leagues."

Layton's comments were in response to a statement Tuesday by Outlaws owner Dan Austin, who told the Billings (Mont.) Gazette the odds were "50-50 at best" that the Outlaws would remain in the NIFL, and that teams in Casper, Wyo., Rapid City, and Tri-Cities, Wash., were considering making the jump as a group.

"We want to stick together," Austin said.

Layton said otherwise.

"For him to speak on our behalf is totally inappropriate," she said. "We have not been in communication with anybody as far as leaving.

"Wherever they're getting the information, it's not from us."

A number of other indoor football leagues operate in the United States, and earlier this year two NIFL teams in Florida and South Carolina left to join the World Indoor Football League. Last season, seven NIFL teams folded, and more than 20 league games were forfeited when teams couldn't afford to travel.

Still, Layton said the NIFL wasn't any worse off than the other leagues.

preeths

08-07-2006, 11:05 AM

copperheadsfans.com, what are you basing your opinion on other than hope? Hope is not a business plan.

But we never received an answer to this question.

ronaldoswalt

08-07-2006, 11:30 AM

Minor League Man

08-07-2006, 11:59 AM

preeths

08-07-2006, 01:37 PM

I Am Baseing This On Inside Info I Can't Release But I Know I Am New To The League This Year But From What I Have Seen From Other Leagues They All Have Their Problems --- I Think I Need 1 More Year To Base A True Personal Knowledge About The Nifl --- I Believe The Nifl Had To Learn From Mistakes This Last Season

There is always "inside info" that is given to the teams. How many times does it actually pan out? You can look back through the NIFL archives and see example after example of promises that were made to the teams, only to see that most of them never had any truth behind them or were blown opportunities by the league. I referenced a few with the airline deal, international expansion, a television contract, promised lawsuits, etc.

I just don't see how any responsible team can accept that. This past season wasn't the NIFL's first. It was its sixth year of operation. Can anyone point out one facet of the league that has improved in those six years? If the league didn't learn from the mistakes of the previous five years, what leads you to believe they learned this time? If anything, this was the NIFL's worst ever season, which leads many to believe that in addition to not learning, they're making new mistakes all the time.

I know you're new to the league, so I ask this not to be hard on you, but in hopes that some teams do some real soul-searching and ask themselves if they truly believe what they are being told or if they only hope that it is true. I'll say it again, hope is not a business plan.

preeths

08-07-2006, 01:40 PM

No worse off that the other leagues?

Well, what other league has:

1. An owner that fired her whole team (made national sports pages)?
2. Teams that get evicted midseason?
3. Teams playing in track facilities?
4. Teams that don't have a real name when the season starts?
5. A conman passing a background check?

The AIFL maybe, BUT NO OTHER LEAGUES!

If that's their mentality, they deserve to be in the NIFL!

There is a great deal of truth in what you say. Any team that simply states, "All leagues have their problems," shrugs its shoulders and goes on with business as usual does a trememdous disservice to its fans.

sportznut

08-07-2006, 08:48 PM

I Believe The Nifl Had To Learn From Mistakes This Last Season

I have been saying that every year i have followed the league.. No they just let it get worse and worse! MOVE

11HP20

08-08-2006, 08:54 AM

Copperheadsfan.com, I flip your team a lot of crap. I call them the Kitty Cat Heads alot. That's in reference to that soft and cuddly schedule. Still it seems like you guys have a good organization there. You as fans deserve better than the NIFL. So does your team.
Try listening to those of us who have been following this league for a while. As has been stated you should look in the NIFL archives. Teams flee every season. I have a flyer from a Believers game that was played on June 24 2004. Here's who would have gone to the playoffs if they had started that day. The Bayou Bucks, Greyhounds, Believers, Horsemen, FireAnts, and Cardsharks in the Atlantic. The Outlaws, Diesel, Storm, Beef, Bandits, and Warriors in the Pacific. The Tupelo FireAnts drop from the list by playoff time because the Fort Wayne Freedom had overtaken them. That makes 13 good teams. The cream of the crop.
By the begining of the 2006 season here's where these teams were. The Bayou Bucks, FireAnts, Cardsharks, Diesel, and Warriors, were extinct. The Greyhounds, Horsemen, Storm, Beef, Bandits, and Freedom were starting their second season in the UIF. Before dying the FireAnts had also left for the UIF. The Believers became The Rage in 2005. Then there's the Outlaws, to the Mavericks, back to the Outlaws thing.
Seriously, give up on the NIFL. It gets worse every year. You say you have only experience it for a season so you want to give it a chance. That's commendable. Kind of. Read the history of the league then see if you need that precious personal experience to determine if the NIFL sucks or not. Look at wikipedia. You will find a list of former teams there. It's 59 teams long. It's also incomplete.

fwp

08-08-2006, 09:00 AM

I wouldn't be surprised to find out, and I'll bet we will find, that there may be an issue that precludes them from leaving the NIFL at the drop of a hat(or in this case, even after mass chaos).

Reichert

08-08-2006, 09:34 AM

fwp--I think you're right...there's something which probably keeps Katy from leaving on the legal front. Coach/owner Blake has vented his frustrations at the league repeatedly during the season and it's no secret that he's upset at Carolyn Conniver.

Rocky

08-08-2006, 09:56 AM

Didn't I read somewhere that Shiver was part-owner of Katy?

Reichert

08-08-2006, 10:10 AM

Didn't I read somewhere that Shiver was part-owner of Katy?

I don't think you read it here. I've never heard anything about a Shiver ownership of the Copperheads or anything about her NOT owning a piece of the team. But judging from the actions of coach/owner Blake and the Katy front office itself I don't have any reason to believe that CS has any ownership stake there.

Different bit here: Katy deserves better than the NIFL, and I think the people of the Katy/West Houston region WILL support a team that will play truly competitive games against legit teams. Playing against a team that has to borrow your training equipment while playing on a field with one goal post (Arkansas) or against a bunch of semi-pros with the final score of 133-6 (West Palm Beach) will NOT get the fans riled up to support your squad. Katy fans are smart ones, and simply weren't interested in the NIFL's stupidity.

The right league with the right front office will promote the right product on the field. Get the Copperheads into a real league because the local front office is already on solid footing. If some truly competitive games can be played at the Merrell Center watch Katy start packing over 5,000 a game in "The Leonard".

fwp

08-08-2006, 10:44 AM

Didn't I read somewhere that Shiver was part-owner of Katy?

Don't know if it's true, but I've heard the same.

Reichert

08-08-2006, 11:02 AM

If that does turn out to be true, then I think it's time for another ownership group to attempt to put a team in the Merrell Center. I know for sure the arena didn't have a multi year deal with the Copperheads, so if the Katy school district (owners of The Leonard) concurs they can simply opt to offer a lease to new owners in a new league and leave the Snakes out in the cold.

preeths

08-08-2006, 11:03 AM

Whose name is the Merrell Center contract under, Bryan Blake/Katy Copperheads or Carolyn Shiver/NIFL? If what I heard is true, the NIFL may own 25 percent of the team. Still, I'd like to see that franchise agreement to know why the majority owner can't decide in which league his franchise should play.

Reichert

08-08-2006, 11:49 AM

The contract signed before this season was for the 2006 season only, according to Bryan Blake himself. That means there is no contract in force for 2007 and the Merrell Center is free to sign whoever they want. And it's no secret that both Intense and af2 would LOVE to be in that market.

KatyCopperheads1

08-08-2006, 02:05 PM

I have a letter of intent from the Merrell Center for 2007 with date held. We are putting together a multi-year deal now. There will be no other team, no matter what league, playing there other than the Copperheads. Also, Carolyn does not own my team, but I did sign the participation agreement which contained the 2 year non-compete along with 20 of the 22 teams from this season.

In my opinion, there are no other leagues out there other than the af2 that I would consider jumping to. Look at it from an invertors / sponsors point of view. They would rather have me in a league that’s been around going on ten year with 20 – 30 teams, than one that is a start up with less than ten. Also, it would not be in the best interest of most of these new leagues to take on an NIFL franchise that will most likely be dragged through a long legal battle with Carolyn.

Yes the NIFL has had its problems in past seasons as well as the 2006 one that tops them all, but it still survives. Teams dropout and add every year, and the league goes on. The strong teams find a way to continue, and the weak fall by the wayside. For every 10 teams that leave, there’s another 10 to take their place. I have attended the league meetings, and you would not believe the amount of teams who want to join every year. The NIFL could have had had as many as 50 teams last season, but several where not voted in. I’m not sure what logic was behind the one’s that were let in, but I was not apart of the voting process last season.

Yes, the league needs a complete overhaul from top to bottom, but nothing will be resolved until the September meetings. That is why you haven’t heard much about what each individual team plans to do for next season. I’m sure their waiting to see what comes form this annual meeting. It will be a heating one at best.

For now, I’m looking at my options, but still hope the NIFL resolves it issues in the off season. Rumor has it that a new President of League Operations has been hired. If that holds true, it will be a step in the right direction.

Whatever the future may hold for the Copperheads, we did have an outstanding inaugural season, finishing with 12 wins and 4 losses. As the Pacific South Division Champions, the Copperheads are one of the most successful expansion teams in the history of the NIFL – both on and off the field. We exceeded all expectations in their first year and have set our goals even higher for Year 2. I thank you for all your support during the first season. Our fan and community response was overwhelming, and next season will prove to be even more successful with heightened awareness, a solid fan base and exciting new promotions. We are out to prove that the Copperheads and our partners will all be staples in the Katy community for years to come.

Coach Blake.

preeths

08-08-2006, 03:57 PM

I have some questions and comments, but I'll defer to others right now.

Reichert

08-08-2006, 04:04 PM

First of all, thanks for taking the time to come to this forum and at least clear the air on several of the issues. I don't live in the Katy community any longer but did for a good while in the 80s. I've watched the community from a distance for years and of course now the Copperheads are a part of that. Of all of the high income and influential suburbs in Houston it is pleasing to see that Katy became the first one to put a minor league sports team out there and do a good job with it.

The #1 issue for the NIFL if they don't want a repeat is to seriously toughen up who comes into the league and what kinds of owners are allowed. This means more than a basic $80 background check done on blue collar employees. They can't have any more Rapid City situations or the like, NONE, PERIOD.

The NIFL may continue to survive but if they don't get it in gear next year watch the number of interested owners drop. The NIFL received NATIONAL attention for some of the shenanigans this year, with the Montgomery situation receiving the most air time and delivering the biggest black eye to the league.

There is no question the NIFL is in the weakest state of its six year history. The questions about the Snakes returning to the NIFL aren't reflective of the franchise, they reflect the state of the league you are returning to.

The most important question you diffused here was a welcome one...the one about CS owning a part of the team. Other than some rumors there was no reason to believe that she had any ownership stake and it was good to see you answer that one point blank.

The participation agreement wouldn't hold in a court of law if you wanted to leave based on the NIFL's own charter from what I hear. If 20 teams signed it, there might only be 10-18 that hold themselves to it, although some of the ones that don't adhere to it will be the teams that simply fold (Twin City and Lincoln come to mind).

If you can hold on in the NIFL for another year you might want to give af2 another look depending on the Copperheads' financial situation. It's obviously no secret that they are the most expensive option and until the Snakes can pretty much fill up the Merrell Center it wouldn't be a financially feasible option.

One question about attendance: The league reported at one point that Katy was averaging less than 1,000 per game in attendance but judging from the pictures during games it's at least double that considering The Leonard holds 5,500 for indoor football.

Best of luck, either af2 or NIFL. I'm still not sold on the future of the NIFL...they have alot of damage control to do.

ronaldoswalt

08-08-2006, 04:07 PM

there was never a game with attendance below 2000 but by seasons end it was over 4000

Reichert

08-08-2006, 04:22 PM

Some of the pictures I've seen of games would indicate an attendance of somewhere between 2,500 and 3,000. Most of the lower bowl filled and a scattering of fans in the upper bowl would probably put the number somewhere in that range.

Reichert

08-08-2006, 04:24 PM

One thing that hasn't been mentioned (even by Coach Blake) was the ESPN Cold Pizza piece that the Copperheads were able to pull off last season. So even with the swirling bad press nationally with the NIFL as a whole the Copperheads did generate some good press of their own.

KatyCopperheads1

08-08-2006, 06:18 PM

Reichert,

The Cold Pizza deal is supposed to air this month sometime. I was just told August? Also, we averaged about 2800 for the season. Are low was right at 2000, and our high was 4027. The football setup in the Merrell Center has about 4900 seat. I was hoping for a few sellouts this season, but we did ok despite. I think with the momentum we built, ticket sells should be much better next season. Hopefully the late season blowouts didn’t hurt too much. You know Katy is a football town, and the Tigers blow team out constantly! They average over 10,000 a game. Last years opener had 16,000 in attendance.

I’ll end by saying that I really enjoy this board, and love to see what all of you think on a daily bases about the ins and outs of the NIFL. Hell, I occasionally learn things about the league that as an owner I don’t even know about.

Thanks,

Coach Blake.

sportznut

08-08-2006, 07:45 PM

you know they are just all haters of the copperheads!

Thanks for the enjoyable season and looking forward to the next one being even bigger and better!

ronaldoswalt

08-08-2006, 08:45 PM

enjoyed talking to you today --- ronald keep up that copperheads love

preeths

08-08-2006, 10:51 PM

Same here. I respect the job the Katy Copperheads did this season and wish them the best in the coming years. We'll have some more NIFL information coming by the end of the month.

Reichert

08-09-2006, 03:56 PM

I think alot of people saw the Copperheads as being a prime candidate for the Intense Football League, but after further examination there's reason to believe they wouldn't fit in that league well.

I'm not sure the Copperheads could have increased their fan base in the IFL since they would already be at the level of most of the teams in that league. In the NIFL they still had some of the prime teams ahead of them in terms of revenue and attendance (Tri-Cities, Billings, Rapid City, Wyoming, Fayetteville, and Osceola come to mind right away). Now most of these teams might be headed out the door, and if 2007 doesn't bring an improvement then at that time it might make sense for the Copperheads to hit the road. But if they are looking for a league that will give them a challenge and other competing franchise to "rise up" to the level of in competition and finances, the legitimate choice is not the IFL but as Blake noted it would be af2. Sponsors would be more eager to sign on with a league that has been established for a long time. And to be quite honest with everyone, I thought the Copperheads did a bang up job on the local sponsors this season for a first year franchise. The team averaged close to 3,000 fans per game and in this market there's only one way for that to go: UP. Just how far up will be determined by the Copperheads to a degree but also to the NIFL itself and if (a HUGE if) they can get their act together.

The organization held up pretty darn well, and out of the 12 new teams the NIFL had in 2006 Katy wound being the lone light out of all of them. If you ask me, I think the NIFL should boot around 6-8 of the franchises from 2006 (if they don't go defunct on their own) and really get serious about weeding out the bad apples. This league CANNOT afford another 2006, even though they continue to have new markets interested in them this WILL NOT remain the case if the NIFL continues to accrue negative national press. The word will be out and quality owners will avoid the NIFL in droves.

That said, the Copperheads are on good financial footing and Bryan Blake proved in 2006 that he is dead serious about having a winning team in Katy...being competitive is very important in football-crazy Katy. When Katy High School is averaging 12,000 fans a game you know they take their football seriously (and the other high schools are well above 5,000 per game). Blake did a good job trying to get local talent on the team but in the end put together the best team possible.

Finally, for all of the people taking a dig at the soft Katy schedule...there is obviously a point to be taken in that. But let's get serious here, how do you think Katy would have held up against a "normal" NIFL schedule? If they didn't get any forfeit wins and saw a few more of the strong NIFL squads I STILL think this team would have finished with a winning record and a playoff spot. A record of 8-7 or 9-6 would have still been quite likely. It's a shame we never got to find out how good this team really would have been with more legit games.

Anyway, great year and looking forward to more. If I'm in Katy next spring or summer I'd love to see a game there.

preeths

08-09-2006, 05:17 PM

I think the greatest reason for looking at a new league is brought out by your post: competition, or the lack thereof. The IFL played 100 percent of its scheduled games this season. The NIFL cancelled nearly two dozen games and sent in replacement teams for several other contests. That will hurt a team if and when it continues. In all likelihood, the NIFL will return less than 10 teams next season. Do you want to schedule games that may or may not be played at the whims of expansion teams after this season?

In a sense, Katy was fortunate this season. Though they played a couple of patsies, at least they had enough lead time to ensure they had opponents for all home games. What if next year a team cancels with only an hour or two notice, or no notice at all? The Copperheads can do everything in their power right, and still end up taking it on the chin with a cancelled game. They'd look terrible to their fans and sponsors, all through no fault of their own. Let's not forget their trip to Arkansas or the nonexistent NIFL bus in the postseason. The NIFL could not afford the 2006 season it had, and after six years, there is no reason to believe 2007 will be any different without different leadership.

Katy can increase attendance and sponsorships in the IFL as well. In fact, it could be argued that they could become the, or one of the, strongest teams in that league in a number of areas. Sponsors are going to look at what Katy did last year, not the age of the league in which they play. In fact, the NIFL may scare off some sponsors with all the public embarrassments of last year. To me, the IFL is a legitimate choice for them, as is af2.

Reichert

08-09-2006, 05:43 PM

I think af2 has the most potential for the Katy market, and it's no secret that they'd love to have a team there. I think Blake might seriously think about making that move this offseason especially if there isn't a MAJOR shakeup in the NIFL front office, starting with CS.

You're right...the Copperheads got very lucky in 2006 in that they were able to play all of their games as scheduled at home. But when they went on the road it was a very different story. I think because they were fortunate at home this year they think they can give it a shot in 2007, and I definitely wish them luck if that's their choice. Their travel expenses should go down if the western four teams all bolt the NIFL...the remaining teams are within a bus ride from Katy/West Houston.

The Copperheads would instantly become one of the strongest IFL teams, but I think the real potential for organizational growth lies with af2 even though the opportunity would come at a co$t (a very serious consideration in this). Katy would give the Amarillo and Rio Grande af2 teams another in-state opponent (provided THEY don't bolt for the IFL).

I get the sense from Blake that he wants to give the NIFL another whirl, but isn't ruling out an af2 move. They do a good job in Katy but they have to consider the possibility of another disaster season in the league in 2007 and if that happens odds are one of those incidents would bite the Snakes at a home game, not a road one.

fwp

08-09-2006, 06:51 PM

ronaldoswalt

08-09-2006, 09:22 PM

If we can just grow from this year --- the future is bright for the Copperheads but i may be a little bias haha

sportznut

08-09-2006, 09:39 PM

future has to be bright with... sportznut on your side for an entire season....

Malepig

08-10-2006, 12:42 AM

The af2 will be announcing more expansion teams on August 26th . From what I understand this will be the final set for 2007. We all then will learn the Katy status if it pertains to the af2.

Reichert

08-10-2006, 10:11 AM

The af2 will be announcing more expansion teams on August 26th . From what I understand this will be the final set for 2007. We all then will learn the Katy status if it pertains to the af2.

If I'm a betting man (and actually I am) I would put money on Katy NOT being on that list.

ronaldoswalt

08-15-2006, 02:16 PM

time is a major problem at this point in my opinion

Tater

08-16-2006, 12:58 AM

Reichert

08-16-2006, 07:42 AM

If the AF2 were to allow a team in Katy in a 5,000 seat arena, they would be breaking one of their own rules for new incoming teams. They don't allow anyone in without a 7,000 seat facility.

Their cost model won't work without that kind of attendance. Coach Blake can make whatever decision he wants, but I would suggest he do a TON of homework on the costs to operate an AF2 franchise before he takes that leap. His cost of doing business will likely triple or quadruple over what the NIFL budget was/is.

Just food for thought.

Actually they have already broken that rule several times. Amarillo's arena holds LESS than 5,000. There are two or three arenas in af2 that are smaller than the Merrell Center.

Costs are probably the main reason Blake hasn't already made the leap...he knows what's up and probably already has done his due dilligence on the matter. The question is whether or not the Katy community will pony up the money for the new product or not. Quite frankly, even though I think it could be done, nobody really knows for sure.

If Katy was just a bit further to the east I'd almost say the WIFL would be a decent match. But right now that league appears to be clustered in the Southeast and any westward or northward expansion would probably wait a year or two (wise option, if you ask me).

ronaldoswalt

08-16-2006, 08:04 PM

i heard today froma reliable unnamed source that the Ford Arena will not renue their contract with the Beaumont Drillers due to poor attendance and management ---- too bad they couldn't play the Katy Copperheads each week to boost their attendance ---- their only option would be to go back to the worn out civic center

ronaldoswalt

08-16-2006, 08:14 PM

the NIFL has shrunk from 22 active franchises at the beginning of this season to 11 at this time. One more move or folding will put it below the 50 percent mark.

Out of Business (or didn't finish season)
---------------
• Big Sky Thunder
• Dayton Bulldogs
• Florida Frenzy
• Lincoln Capitols
• Palm Beach Phantoms
• Tennessee River Sharks
• Twin City Gators

Moved to Another League
------------------------
• Osceola Football
• Charleston SandSharks
• Montgomery Maulers
• Lakeland Thunderbolts

Still in the NIFL
--------------
• Arkansas Stars
• Beaumont Drillers --- needs arena will not return to Ford Arena
• Billings Outlaws * --- could leave in western exit
• Cincinnati Marshals --- possible af2 team moving in
• Fayetteville Guard * --- one of better teams left
• Greensboro Revolution --- no website changes or phone in weeks
• Katy Copperheads*
• Rapid City Flying Aces * --- could leave in western exit
• RiverCity Rage * --- could leave in western exit
• Tri-Cities Fever * --- could leave in western exit
• Wyoming Cavalry --- could leave in western exit with fellow western teams for survival

* Rumored or reported to be moving to or establishing another leagueersonal concerns

EVEN WITH ALL THE PROBLEMS -- I HAVE ENJOYED THE COPPERHEADS THIS SEASON BUT IF NEW TEAMS AREN'T ADDED SOON -- THE LEAGUE COULD BE IN BIG TROUBLE REAL SOON !!!!!

Malepig

08-16-2006, 09:00 PM

The af2 does allow 5,000 seat arenas. As far as operating expenses Katy knows the cost of it all and from my sources are agreeable because they want to provide a quality stable product. The af2 fees are set by the owners when they vote on the budget.
The reasomn things have been a little quiet could be the af2 will be announcing the expansion teams for 2007 next Saturday and therefore are not talking.

preeths

08-17-2006, 03:59 PM

Even with a whole load of new teams, the NIFL could be in trouble. It's not the number of teams, but the quality of ownership. The league had a very hard time finding quality owners last year, and after the events of this year, it will be even tougher. Right now, the NIFL appears desperate to outsiders, and that's exactly the type of situation that unsavory people look for.

Freedom

08-17-2006, 04:19 PM

Unsavory people? . . .

Place your bets on HP Patterson surfacing with a team somewhere . . .

Three years in a row, could it happen?

AllAces

08-17-2006, 04:33 PM

Unsavory people? . . .

Place your bets on HP Patterson surfacing with a team somewhere . . .

Three years in a row, could it happen?

Of course it could happen! Part of me hopes he surfaces near Rapid City. The story of that aftermath would make national headlines... Or, would he just disappear....?:cool:

sportznut

08-17-2006, 09:23 PM

Civic Center is not an option... The city sold it and Sheraton Hotel bought the property to build a downtown hotel and turn the civic center area intop a convention hall..... That is starting up in the fall/winter... So it is ford Arena or nottin

preeths

08-17-2006, 11:35 PM

How sure are we on the Drillers not returning to Ford?

sportznut

08-18-2006, 07:07 AM

I live here, and that was the first i heard of it.....

ronaldoswalt

08-25-2006, 08:04 PM

sorry for being out of pocket for the last week or so --- katy copperheads are well with or without thye NIFL --- GO COPPERHEADS

Reichert

08-25-2006, 09:57 PM

sorry for being out of pocket for the last week or so --- katy copperheads are well with or without thye NIFL --- GO COPPERHEADS

Better without it if you ask me.

sportznut

08-29-2006, 11:17 PM

a little bird told me.. some decisive decisions will be made by sept 1 concerning next season....
as they say.... Stay tuned for news....

ronaldoswalt

08-30-2006, 08:58 AM

where do you get all this info ????? hahahahahaha

ronaldoswalt

08-30-2006, 09:02 AM

'Minor sports' get major boost in area
New facilities are being built as Texas schools look beyond football

By JENNY DIAL
Copyright 2006 Houston Chronicle

Once late August arrives in Texas, attention tends to turn to one thing: football.

But this year is different.

With the opening of several multimillion-dollar arenas, so-called minor sports such as volleyball and basketball are stepping into the spotlight at schools across the Greater Houston area.

Three new facilities, built in the past two years, are setting a standard for school districts throughout the state. Katy ISD's Merrell Center, Cy-Fair ISD' s Berry Center and Clear Creek ISD's Bill Krueger Field House are state-of the-art venues that are placing focus on the sports and the teams that play in them.

In addition, they show the growth of girls sports, even in a state where football rules.

"The greatest thing about it is that it shows the students on the volleyball and basketball teams that this district really embraces them and cares about what they are out there doing," Clear Lake High School girls basketball coach Terry Farrell said of the 2,800-seat Krueger Field House.

The fieldhouse was approved by voters in 2004. Though there had been talk of making major improvements to the football stadium, when the fieldhouse appeared on a single ticket at the bond election that year, it was strongly supported. The vote was a victory for the "other" sports.

"I think it just shows how sports like volleyball and basketball are really growing," Farrell said. "It's a great thing when the community backs a project like this."

The vote also was surprising to several people in the athletic department.

"This district prides itself in academics, which is a great thing," said Carrie Taylor, Clear Creek district spokeswoman. "So we were really pleased to see the fieldhouse vote pass since a lot of times money doesn't go toward athletics in this district."

Taylor said the need for the facility had become apparent, and she attributes that to the overwhelming support of the school board and community.

"We are growing so much," she said. "We are opening a new school next year and probably another one a few years after that. While academics are so important, athletics are also a great way for kids to excel and possibly get scholarships for college."

CCISD's fieldhouse has four new locker rooms and a new weight room, specifically for the volleyball and basketball teams.

"Adding the weight room to the fieldhouse has really helped because in the past the weight room at (Clear Lake) has been crowded with football and soccer sharing it as well," Clear Lake volleyball coach Chanda Eager said.

"Now, that's not a problem. The fieldhouse has benefited every sport."

Multipurpose facility
Sports fans in the Cy-Fair ISD area are being spoiled with a complex that includes a new arena and a new football stadium.

The Berry Center, voted for in the 2001 bond election, boasts an 11,000-seat football stadium and a 9,500-seat arena.

Just two years ago, there was controversy in the area about money being spent on athletics instead of academics.

But Roy Sprague, the superintendent of facilities, said Cy-Fair ISD will save money in the long run.

"It's a great addition to a district that is growing so fast," Sprague said. "We now not only have room for our volleyball and basketball teams to host games, tournaments and playoff games, but also a site for graduation, new teacher development and banquets.

"This has turned out wonderfully for the district."

Sprague said that before last May, every school had to rent a facility for graduation. Now thousands of dollars will be saved each year because the district can provide a space.

Cy-Fair already cut the cost of the Berry Center by putting the arena and the football stadium on the same site.

"Being able to combine the two actually saved us about $4.2 million of taxpayers' money," Sprague said.

The Berry Center also will host several Southwestern Athletic Conference volleyball and basketball games, some of which will air on ESPN2.

Not for everyone
The facilities also underscore the difference between well-to-do districts and those that are strapped for money. Houston ISD struggles to merely pay teachers, much less fund new athletic facilities

Still, in Clear Lake, "the coaches and student-athletes here understand that we are very fortunate to be in a district where the funding is available and the support is there to build us such a nice facility," said boys basketball coach Lynn McDonald. "I know it isn't like that at every school so we feel very lucky to have such a nice place to play and practice."

If the Merrell Center in Katy is any indication, the Berry Center and Krueger Field House should thrive.

The Merrell Center opened last year, hosting volleyball and basketball teams from Cinco Ranch, Katy, Katy Taylor, Mayde Creek, Morton Ranch and Seven Lakes.

The Merrell Center was built on a TIRZ (tax increment reinvestment zone), a mechanism which allows future taxes to help pay down the bond on the center.

The center, which holds 5,723, hosted volleyball and basketball tournaments as well as the district wrestling meet. The facility also housed graduation for all of the Katy ISD schools.

"The Merrell Center has been a great addition to the district," said facilities director Jim Chapman. "It really gives a lot to the kids who play various sports here. They can be proud of where they are playing when they are hosting other teams."

The Merrell Center has not only been a great venue for school district events, it has drawn a wider audience for local events as the home site last season for the Katy Copperheads, a National Indoor Football League team, and a Kirk Cameron Father's Day weekend event that was attended by 5,000 people.

During Hurricane Katrina, the Merrell Center housed evacuees.

"The facility has a lot of room," Chapman said. "It's well-kept and taken care of. We try to use it for a wide array of things."

Because of the continuing increase in school enrollment, sports will keep growing and Chapman said these new facilities will continue to pop up across the state. A building modeled after the Merrell Center will open next year in Garland.

"In this area, football is football," Farrell said. "It will always be the dominant sport, but volleyball is getting up there and so is basketball. And being able to provide those teams with great facilities is an honor for any district."

jenny.dial@chron.com

sportznut

08-30-2006, 04:44 PM

where do you get all this info ????? hahahahahaha

I can honestly say it wassnt from you.. hahahahahhaaha... But the little bird said more info to come

Reichert

09-03-2006, 06:17 AM

Just a quick word...it appears a hacker has broken into the Copperheads' web site and it would be someone opposed to the war in Israel. The Snakes' site has been reduced to a one word sentence and nothing else.

tony-o

09-03-2006, 07:34 AM

He once had Indoor Football Fan hacked for a few hours or days(can't remember which). Hackers seem to go after indoor football a lot.

Geoff

09-03-2006, 08:46 AM

Indoor football and sometimes the ECHL. Don't know why.

nksports

09-04-2006, 10:07 PM

Don't You Infidels Know? It Is Because Indoor Football Is Part Of The Zionist Conspiracy To Keep The Palestinians Under The Yoke Of Oppression!!!!

ronaldoswalt

09-05-2006, 08:43 AM

the copperheads site is now up and corrected --- we defeated the hackers for now

therock!

09-06-2006, 10:09 AM

When are the tryouts for the 2007 season going to be? Any info please.

ronaldoswalt

09-06-2006, 06:59 PM

emaiil ronald oswalt at oswalt1@houston.rr.com --- i will forward to head coach thanks

sportznut

09-09-2006, 09:52 PM

WOW, Take a look at this.... http://www.texascopperheads.com/ I guess where there is smoke there is fire! I can't wait to hear all about this!

Reichert

09-09-2006, 10:48 PM

WOW, Take a look at this.... http://www.texascopperheads.com/ I guess where there is smoke there is fire! I can't wait to hear all about this!

Are they still going to be in Katy? The name change indicates that they may be leaving the Katy area in the rearview mirror, but they will still be a part of the Houston market. Also, in the splash page on the new site it appears that the move to af2 has become reality.

rams80

09-09-2006, 10:55 PM

Texas? I wonder what Amarillo, Laredo and RGV have to say about this...

If they aren't playing at Katy where would they play? Toyota Center?

Reichert

09-09-2006, 11:06 PM

If they are leaving the NIFL and going directly to the AFL, that would mean the Toyota Center. It is the AFL logo on the temporary page, not the af2.

rams80

09-10-2006, 12:02 AM

Does Katy have $16-20 million lying around?

ronaldoswalt

09-10-2006, 12:09 AM

Thanks To All The Great Indoor Fans And Supporters Of The Copperheads Please Post All Copperheads Inquiries To The Af2 Link For Now On --- It's Been Great But The Copperheads Are Bnow Moving To Bigger And Better Things In 2007

Remember For Latest Copperhead News Go To The Af2 Link On Osc

Thanks So Much For Your Support Of The Texas Copperheads

Geoff

09-10-2006, 01:18 AM

If they are leaving the NIFL and going directly to the AFL, that would mean the Toyota Center. It is the AFL logo on the temporary page, not the af2.

Check your eyes. The AFL logo is there to say they are part of the AFL family, the background is nothing but watermarked af2 logos.

fwp

09-10-2006, 07:49 AM

My condolences to the Copperhead organization. I will have fond memories of their one year, even facing adversity in a tough situation.

But, it appears that poor decisions will plague the few year existence of this franchise.

Reichert

09-10-2006, 09:28 AM

So you're saying that moving to af2 will be the end of the franchise? If that's the case I seriously beg to differ.

Minor League Man

09-10-2006, 09:33 AM

So you're saying that moving to af2 will be the end of the franchise? If that's the case I seriously beg to differ.
He probably saw how the Everett Hawks did in their first year of af2.

But I think the Copperheads will do better in '07 than the Hawks did in '06 (and so will the Hawks in '07)

rams80

09-10-2006, 09:52 AM

He probably saw how the Everett Hawks did in their first year of af2.

But I think the Copperheads will do better in '07 than the Hawks did in '06 (and so will the Hawks in '07)

And your reason for believing this is what? Sheer, unadulterated, perpetual optimism?

Reichert

09-10-2006, 09:59 AM

And your reason for believing this is what? Sheer, unadulterated, perpetual optimism?

Well, could it be that the Katy/West Houston market is capable of supporting this? No matter which arena they play in on the westside (Merrell Center, Berry Center, etc.) they have nearly one million residents within 20 miles of the building. They are only needing a small fraction of that population to be loyal ticket buying fans.

Everyone but copperheadfans (Ron) has been underestimating this market left and right.

Minor League Man

09-10-2006, 10:29 AM

Well, could it be that the Katy/West Houston market is capable of supporting this? No matter which arena they play in on the westside (Merrell Center, Berry Center, etc.) they have nearly one million residents within 20 miles of the building. They are only needing a small fraction of that population to be loyal ticket buying fans.

Everyone but copperheadfans (Ron) has been underestimating this market left and right.
Glad he's not phasing you, Reichert. He believes that 'Evil Empire' nonsense about the af2.

He's just prejudiced against the af2, so ignore him.

cap

09-10-2006, 11:33 AM

The way I see it, the Copperheads took what little they had and turned it into a successful season. Why couldn't that happen with the af2 as well? Reichert seems to have it with the population/requirement statement. It's all a matter of advertising properly right?

West Houston has 1.3 million and 41% of them make over $75,000/year.

rams80

09-10-2006, 11:52 AM

But...is the market too big? (Would these Houstonians percieve the Empire level of play as beneath their status as a major league market?)

Malepig

09-10-2006, 12:34 PM

Does Katy have $16-20 million lying around?

If you want to hate the af2 then fine. But you just lied about the financial requirements. Those numbers are not correct for the af2 or the AFL. At least tell the truth or go back to your cross burning that you do. Katy is well aware of the financial requirements as Laredo is. They know all the numbers and believe they can do them and be fnancially viable. The af2 has checked them as well and believe in the financial viability. On Friday I will say welcome Katy, Laredo, and 2-3 other Texas teams to the af2.

cap

09-10-2006, 12:53 PM

Does anyone really have a choice? The NIFL is falling apart, and who the heck was Katy going to play?

Can a market be too big? They don't need 40,000 fans. Just 4-5,000. Houston's pretty big, the burb people will love it.

ronaldoswalt

09-10-2006, 01:11 PM

the copperheads will have better competiton no more 132-3 wins -- the fans will have a better than ever product --- dont forget to go to the af2 threads

rams80

09-10-2006, 01:31 PM

If you want to hate the af2 then fine. But you just lied about the financial requirements. Those numbers are not correct for the af2 or the AFL. At least tell the truth or go back to your cross burning that you do. Katy is well aware of the financial requirements as Laredo is. They know all the numbers and believe they can do them and be fnancially viable. The af2 has checked them as well and believe in the financial viability. On Friday I will say welcome Katy, Laredo, and 2-3 other Texas teams to the af2.

The going rate for an AFL franchise has been $16-20 million for the last couple of years.

(Imperial March has also been placed on perpetual loop here.)

Malepig

09-10-2006, 01:56 PM

The going rate for an AFL franchise has been $16-20 million for the last couple of years.

(Imperial March has also been placed on perpetual loop here.)

nope, lie by you.

Minor League Man

09-10-2006, 02:08 PM

The going rate for an AFL franchise has been $16-20 million for the last couple of years.

(Imperial March has also been placed on perpetual loop here.)
Yawn, we know you hate the af2, rams80.

But preeths says you should continue, because it further demonstrates your stupidity.

fwp

09-10-2006, 02:29 PM

Yawn, we know you hate the af2, rams80.

But preeths says you should continue, because it further demonstrates your stupidity.

Usually personal attacks are frowned upon, I do know that.

Yes, the NIFL had major problems this last year, problems that one would think that they couldn't recover from.

As far as af2, look at the tremendous turnover in teams over the last 5 or 6 years. I'm going to have to check sometime, there may be only one team left from Lincoln's division when they were in af2.

Minor League Man

09-10-2006, 02:46 PM

Usually personal attacks are frowned upon, I do know that.

Yes, the NIFL had major problems this last year, problems that one would think that they couldn't recover from.

As far as af2, look at the tremendous turnover in teams over the last 5 or 6 years. I'm going to have to check sometime, there may be only one team left from Lincoln's division when they were in af2.
Yeah, but the turnover of the NIFL has even been greater during that span.

And as for "personal attacks", I wasn't attacking him, I was defending the af2; since Mr. Reeths has said a lot of the same stuff I'm saying , were his words frowned upon?

Reichert

09-10-2006, 02:53 PM

I'm also putting the smart money that the Copperheads will not be in the Merrell Center next year. They are likely headed for the Berry Center a few miles to the north. Bigger arena to better meet the tastes of af2.

Minor League Man

09-10-2006, 02:59 PM

No, I'm thinking the Reliant Arena (8,500) in Houston.

Reichert

09-10-2006, 03:08 PM

I think anything in Houston might be for the AFL itself. Isn't the Berry Center somewhere around 9,000?

preeths

09-10-2006, 03:11 PM

Usually personal attacks are frowned upon, I do know that.

Fred's right. Just because someone has a contrary opinion, doesn't mean it is stupid. Let's stop that kind of talk now.

Yes, the NIFL had major problems this last year, problems that one would think that they couldn't recover from.

As far as af2, look at the tremendous turnover in teams over the last 5 or 6 years. I'm going to have to check sometime, there may be only one team left from Lincoln's division when they were in af2.

But it's all relative. This is minor league sports, and there will be some turnover in teams from year to year. What's been the turnover in indoor football over that same 5-6 year timespan, particularly in the league the Copperheads are leaving? How many NIFL teams are left in the league, much less any particular division, from 5-6 years ago? af2 beats the NIFL for both short-term and long-term stability.

preeths

09-10-2006, 03:13 PM

Yeah, but the turnover of the NIFL has even been greater during that span.

And as for "personal attacks", I wasn't attacking him, I was defending the af2; since Mr. Reeths has said a lot of the same stuff I'm saying , were his words frowned upon?

First, call me Paul. Second, I don't call people or their opinions stupid just because they don't agree with me. You can continue to disagree, but don't call names, and we'll all be fine.

Minor League Man

09-10-2006, 03:26 PM

I'm sorry, Paul.

I'll stop-since it don't apply (to me) I'll let it fly.

Rocky

09-10-2006, 04:07 PM

I was talking to Exit, and he was thinking the change from katy to texas may add strength to the thought that Shiver had some ownership stake in the NIFL Katy team.

I think this is a good move. The NIFL has fallen to a new low this past season. Its hard to think that anything wouldn't be better than another season in the NIFL.

The NIFL is going to be filled with 3 types of franchises next season...1) those tied to the powers that be, 2) those that can't leave for legal/logistical reasons, and 3) new franchises that don't know any better.

cap

09-10-2006, 07:43 PM

Rocky, please lead me through the steps that lead you to believe Shiver has stake in the Copperheads based solely on the name change. I am quite interested.

Also, do you own an indoor team? Your quote seems to have all the pessimism of someone who's "been there".

Rocky

09-10-2006, 10:00 PM

Thank God, I'm only a fan and not an owner. I used to be somewhat of an insider back in the day, but not anymore. I'm 100% on the sidelines now.

The NIFL gave away rights to an extra franchise when you bought one. I don't know the particulars on that, but I do know Shiver was greatly discounting franchises, or offering them for free (with her being a minority owner). She offered one to an ownership group I know, with the understanding that they'd come into the league that year. They weren't comfortable with that, and passed. I suspect that Shiver has some stake in ownership in several NIFL franchises, and its come up thjat Katy could be one of them.

Reichert

09-10-2006, 11:32 PM

I'm putting the money on the Reliant Arena in Houston or what I think would be a better option: The Berry Center in NW Houston. Either way, I think the name change from Katy to Texas Copperheads precludes a move out of the Merrell Center.

As corny as it sounds if the af2 moves the team to the Reliant Arena would it be possible for an IFL team to take up residence at The Merrell Center?

preeths

09-11-2006, 10:04 AM

I've been told by several insiders that there were supposedly two ways to get an NIFL franchise last year. First, you could pay a flat expansion fee for one and own it outright. A couple of sources have told us that only one new team did so last year. Second, you could be given 75 percent ownership in a franchise, with the league or someone within the league holding the remaining 25 percent. That quarter would eventually be sold to other investors and take the place of the franchise fee. Not sure how it worked with Katy, but allegedly at least some prospective franchises balked at the 25-percent league ownership and were just given the entire franchise, possibly out of league desperation to field enough teams.

cap

09-11-2006, 07:59 PM

If Shiver owns 25% of a membership in the NIFL, how much do you think that's worth right now?

Owning a membership and a operating company are two different things.

If An owner has 100% of his LLC and 75% of an NIFL membership, what keeps said owner from leaving the league mebership behind (worth nothing) and changing leagues? ;)

ronaldoswalt

09-12-2006, 08:53 AM

Cap Hit It Right On The Nail --- It Was Definitely A Post Of Intelligence

Reichert

09-12-2006, 10:18 AM

I will say this...I know for sure that Blake did NOT sell a majority share of the team nor did Shiver ever own a piece of the Copperheads. I think in reality if you go to Paul's explanation of things earlier in the thread it's very possible that Blake got a whale of a deal from CS because she was desparate to put a team in the Katy/West Houston market before anyone else got the idea. So I believe Blake was allowed to put his franchise out there with 100% ownership of the whole kit and caboodle. I came to this conclusion by simply cobbling together posts from Paul, a few others, and not the least of all Coach Blake himself.

I think because Blake owned the Copperheads in whole he was very much able to just pick up his bag and walk right over to af2 without any issues from CS. If this wasn't the case, of if CS had some financial stake in this we wouldn't be talking about this move right now, period.

So the next question: How much of the team did Blake sell in moving the team and why did he sell any of it if he owned it all and could move cleanly? The answer is simple: He needed some capital to move from the NIFL and af2. This should ensure that the team has the initial expenses squared away before the first game and they get to start with a clean slate on opening day financially. af2 is definitely the most expensive indoor league to operate a team in, and any team making a jump is going to incur ihitial expenses that a returning team won't.

So how much of the team did he sell? Doesn't matter. Blake will still have the same role he had before, which pretty much means coaching, owning, and running this show. He might be running the show in a different arena, but he's still running it.

That's my somewhat educated guess in all of this.

cap

09-12-2006, 08:47 PM

You beat me to it. I thought that it would become apparent that Shiver didn't own the team the minute the Copperheads went af2. Do some people not know that River City, Rapid City, and a few more of those teams are gone? They just haven't announced yet.
I guess I will post on the deadlist thread.

Rocky

09-13-2006, 10:10 AM

Rapid City isn't gone yet. They're having discussions to buy the UIF Black Hills Red Dogs franchise rights. I wish they were already UIF-bound, but its up in the air.

ronaldoswalt

09-29-2006, 11:03 PM

any news on escaping the nifl

AllAces

09-30-2006, 09:09 AM

There is some current info on the Aces in the Aces Future thread. I think there are some things in the Casper thread as well. The situation is explained, but there really isn't anything new...

ronaldoswalt

10-18-2006, 04:45 PM

Arena football: Copperheads say hello to Cy-Fair, Berry Center
New AFL team bids farewell to Katy, former moniker

By NEIL STRATTON
Houston Chronicle

On Tuesday, Katy officially said goodbye to its first-ever professional football team. At the same time, the Cy-Fair area welcomed one.

In a move that has been in the planning stages for weeks, the Katy Copperheads announced plans to relocate to the Richard E. Berry Educational Support Center, 8877 Barker-Cypress in Cypress. The Copperheads, who will now be known as the Texas Copperheads, played their first season in the Leonard E. Merrell Center at 6301 S. Stadium Lane in Katy.

They'll not only be changing venues and names, but also affiliations. After one year as part of the National Indoor Football League, the Copperheads will play the 2007 season as a member of the Arena Football League's minor league, the AF2.

Team owner and head coach Bryan Blake said stepping up to the AF2 is a welcome change.

"We moved leagues because the NIFL was a nightmare," Blake said. "(In the AFL), we get support from the league office, and they bring us up here (to Chicago, site of an offseason convention for AFL and AF2 owners and officials), and we have three days worth of seminars that teach us how to market and how to sell tickets. It's more than them just wanting us to pay a franchise fee and that's it. They want every team to succeed."

Blake's dissatisfaction with the NIFL came to a head when the team's second-round playoff game in Rapid City, N.D., became a logistical problem of seismic proportions. Due to a series of financial and travel difficulties that Blake said was the fault of the NIFL and the Rapid City franchise, the team was forced to make the 24-hour trip just over a day before kickoff in rented vehicles, then return in similar fashion.

The Copperheads fell 60-38 to the Flying Aces.

"They say the AFL is only as strong as their weakest team," Blake said. "It's the kind of support we didn't get in the NIFL. I mean, I'm not going to have to be concerned if a team we're supposed to play is going to show up on Saturday, or if we're going to score 100 points on a team because the competition's so bad."

He said the long-term health of his team depended on switching leagues.

"League stability, competition, there's a whole bunch of different reasons (for the move)," he said. "We want to be in a league that's been around for 20 years, and it's the premier indoor football league in the country."

He said he also wanted his team to spend more time in professional venues and less on the road.

"The travel (will be less) and our rivals close to us were also attractive," he said. "We have six teams in Texas, and our fans will be able to go to the road games if they want to. There's us, Corpus Christi, Laredo, Lubbock, Amarillo, and Rio Grande Valley, which I believe plays in Hidalgo. This is in close proximity to us, so we're not going to Rapid City twice or West Palm Beach.

"There's also teams in Bossier City, (La.); Tulsa, (Okla.); Oklahoma City, (Okla.) and Arkansas. Those are all teams basically in our region, all in states touching our state. It would probably even be closer to drive to Oklahoma than to Lubbock."

He said the move to the Berry Center was prompted not by cost or a dissatisfaction with the team's former home, but merely a question of dimensions.

"There was no way at all we could play (in the Merrell Center) because 180 (feet) was the max distance of the floor in the Merrell Center, and it has to be 196 feet in the AF2," he said. "You can change the width at the Merrell Center, but not the length beyond 180 feet. It's also wider. We were 80 feet wide last year, but we'll be 84-85 feet this year (in the Berry Center)."

Jim Chapman, General Manager of Facilites for the Merrell Center, said the move was expected.

"The AF2 came down here to visit our facility, their commissioner Jerry Kurz did, and my understanding is that they had a preference to be in the largest facility they could be in in this area, and the Berry Center is larger than we are," he said. "They are like 8,300 seats and we're about 5,200 when we set up in the same arrangement for the Copperheads, and so we're happy for them if they're moving up in the world."

He also didn't challenge Blake's assertion that the team would need a longer field to play by AF2 rules.

"That may be true," he said. "To be honest with you, I don't know, off the top of my head, the exact dimensions. They're probably bigger than we are, but our floor is 180 feet long and they may require a (bigger) end zone."

He said the loss of the Copperheads doesn't signal the end of professional sports in Katy. Chapman said any teams looking for a modern arena for professional competition would be welcome at the Merrell Center.

"In general, we're open to talk to anybody, really," he said. "Not just football, but any event."

All in all, Chapman said the Merrell Center is better for having had the Copperheads as its guest.

"I think the exposure was well worth it," he said of the team's one-year tenure in Katy. "We got a lot of people aware of the facility and the community certainly supported the team and rallied behind them way beyond my expectation level. The Katy area is a tight-knit society, so when there's something like that available, they're going to support it."

Chapman was careful to express that there are no hard feelings between the neighboring school districts.

"Because we're a school district and they are, we're not competing, and if we have a date that's already taken, or an event that better fits them, we'll recommend the Berry Center and vice versa," he said, "so we're certainly not in competition with them and we're happy to provide leads to them and vice versa."