Smallest arena in the af2

[spider]

Who has the smallest arena (seating cap.) in the af2 and how many will it seat?

[Minor League Man]

Dodge Arena (5,500) home of the Rio Grande Valley Dorados.

[Rooster]

The so called Amarillo "Cellar" has 4,870 fixed seats. I think they can squeeze so more floor seating when they are in arena football configruation but it's not much more.

[spider]

I'm thinking about applying for an af2 franchise however the arena I want to play in only seats 3,127 when the field is in place. This is a "new" arena and it's a great place for indoor/arena football.

I would love to play in the af2 but I may have to settle for a lesser league.

[rams80]

I would love to play in the af2 but I may have to settle for a lesser league.

Careful with that "lesser league" junk. Don't go painting all of indoor football with the Niffle brush. (And most of the time the business plan is better for you. A 3000+ arena would not survive in the af2's financial setup).

[spider]

You are probably right about the af2 setup. I am looking at another league that will work for me. It's a little more practical.

I'm not to keen about the NIFL either. Way too much going on with that league to get involved.

[Pounder]

When there were Boise interests considering af2, they got sidetracked by af2's insistance on 6K to 12K arenas. Qwest Arena officially holds 5,002, though I'm not sure that includes any participation in the sports bar. I'm pretty sure it doesn't include the concourse standing room.

Obviously, af2 isn't as "strict" as they once were... but I get the sense the cost "structure" probably favors a slightly larger building.

[nksports]

When af2 was here in Wichita, the league always called 3,500 (paid) a game the "break even" point. At an average ticket price of $12 (most teams tickets range from about $10 for upper level to $15 for the average seat to about $25 for front rows), that's $294,000 in income for a seven-game home season. You'd have to sell a lot of merchandise, get a good cut of concessions and sell a lot of sponsorships to make a profit at that. You have player salaries of $67,200 (af2 has 24-man game-day rosters at $200 a player). Wichita charged $7,200 a night for arena rental. That's another $50,400. Plus coaches salaries, front office staff, office rental, utilities, office equipment, sales staff (usually commission), insurance (workman's comp, unemployment, liability and auto if you own or rent any vehicles), travel expenses (buses, hotel rooms, player per diem for meals). And that's all I can think of off hand.
It takes a lot of jack to make it. Wichita always claimed attendances of 3,500 to 4,000 a game, but a lot of those were either promotional (giveaways) or sponsored tickets (bought by a game-day sponsor and given away, ala go to this week's sponsor The SuperDuper Mart and get a free ticket with fill-up).
af2 also has the highest franchise fees and capitalization requirements with performance bonds (they won't allow a struggling team to fold at mid-season, that's how the Stealth finished its final season when the owner went bankrupt.)

[Pounder]

Just in from the wild rumor department... the Boise area is latching onto af2.

Sounds like they would play in Nampa at the Idaho Center rather than in Boise (about 15 miles between downtown Boise and Nampa).

Of course, as with all these things, conditions can change without warning. Stay tuned.

[rams80]

Well, score one for the af2 tampering and meddling in a market.

If this is true, please forward the would be owners the following af2 orientation message.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! YOU SIMPLE FOOLS!!!

[preeths]

What tampering and meddling? Last I checked Boise was an open market and evidently no other Arena/indoor team had a contract with either arena. Who do you think should have been there?

[rams80]

Supposedly Niffle had an ownership group all ready to go there for this season, and then the af2 stepped in and spooked the would be owners. (And don't let the NIFL moniker fool you-the Western teams are for the most part pretty stable, well run organizations.)

[Pounder]

IIRC, the would-be owners tried to get into the downtown arena. The then B-of-A Centre folks were still smarting from the aftermath of the Idaho Stallions, and were going to take every ounce of due diligence they could. Didn't take long at all for the media to find some dirt on those owners, BTW. I think local management here is aware of the nuances of af2 and NIFL.

Besides, in the Boise market, they pay particular attention to teams coming in to play. One league has Everett and Spokane and California teams (Spokane being an old rival in more than one league, Bakersfield has the ECHL relationship), the other Tri-Cities and Montana teams. NIFL fails that test.

[Rocky]

If I recall correctly, you need 2mil liquid and 12mil in assets. If those #'s aren't a slam-dunk, its time to consider the indoor leagues.

NIFL: Plenty of good franchises. Plenty of bad. CS is STILL in charge. If you aren't in the west, close to Tri Cities or Wyoming/Billins, I wouldn't bother.

AIFL: Haines put the league up for sale. Or he didn't. Or maybe he did. Anyway, that league is a mess...even larger than the NIFL. The AIFL couldn't survive a TIPS or CSM boggle. Far too many franchises hinging on league ownership. Buyer beware.

GLIFL: Inexpensive, simple, low overhead....unproven. Year 1 will show alot about what direction they go.

UIF: Struggling teams are gone. Or have they just been replaced? Being within travel distance of SF/SC would be a plus. You don't want to be on an island.

APFL: Don't follow it.

[exit322]

The af2 lost the least number of teams/markets of any second tier league this past offseason...not sure that they're such a bad option anymore.

[nksports]

APFL: Don't follow it.

Not much in league fees. The lowest in player pay. You still have to buy uniforms and equipment, pay coaches and staff (most teams have small staffs with a lot of volunteers and interns on game day) and rent an arena. Low travel costs. No overnight trips. The farthest trip so far is Wichita to Council Bluffs, about five to six hours depending on stops. The rest of the league is all within two to three hours.

[nksports]

What tampering and meddling? Last I checked Boise was an open market and evidently no other Arena/indoor team had a contract with either arena. Who do you think should have been there?
Most arenas only rent to teams on a year-to-year basis in the first couple years, waiting for a team to establish viability before cutting any deals and going long-term. They tend to be filled with escape clauses for the arenas, which in most cases are municipally-owned (but more and more privately managed), so they have taxpayers to answer to.
If a team shows any sign of weakness, a venue manager is usually not afraid to find another tenant.
From following arenas around here, here's another tip for success: We once had an indoor soccer team and a minor-league hockey team in the same building with roughly the same season. The soccer team had the higher attendance and sold itself to families (mom, pop and the kids packed in the minivan and came out to the games). The hockey team didn't post the attendance numbers and tended to draw more single, younger adults (21-35, they tended to get a lot of daters).
Guess who got the better dates at the venue? The hockey team. The arena sold more beer at hockey games, meaning better profits.
The soccer team folded about four years ago. The hockey team is still going.

[soonerfred]

Amarillo is smallest arena.

[Pounder]

If Amarillo is the smallest arena, Boise is about to have the second smallest. Looks like the af2 interests here picked Boise over Nampa.

http://www.6onyourside.com/TODAYS6/NEWS/NewsArticle/tabid/385/xmid/1930/Default.aspx

[rams80]

Fools.

Better to own a McDonalds or something profitable than to throw your money away on an af2 team.

[Pounder]

http://www.idahostatesman.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060518/FRONTPAGE/60518011

So now that the Statesman has put this in print, it's being discussed on the local sports radio station.

Now, remember the Stallions? IPFL, forerunner of NIFL? Let's just say they're being savaged on the radio right now; a LOT of sad old memories are resurfacing. Let's also say that there's eyes wide open regarding af2. There's more people who want to know how old mistakes are going to be rectified rather than which Boise State players might get roster spots, and that's saying something in this town. The NIFL would have never survived this market.

[hawk174md]

Just in from the wild rumor department... the Boise area is latching onto af2.

Sounds like they would play in Nampa at the Idaho Center rather than in Boise (about 15 miles between downtown Boise and Nampa).

Of course, as with all these things, conditions can change without warning. Stay tuned.

I heard that the Boise af2 team would be situated at the Qwest Arena in Boise, but I could be mistaken.

[Pounder]

Yes, they're basing at Qwest.

Many think they SHOULD have gone for the Idaho Center, where media argues there were bigger crowds for IPFL.

I don't know anymore. Idaho Center doesn't have a good reputation as a building; it's probably happily in the concert business (Rolling freaking Stones in Idaho Center... unbelievable). Qwest barely gets crowds (that aren't papered) for hockey, but it's not as if there isn't a corporate presence down there... probably the only reason the D-League Stampede are still around.