Are you Ready For Football: Expansion

[Leonard]

"Are you ready for some football?" Let's get this thing started. Okay, the 2006 season isn't even underway, but with the new Utah Blaze and the 're-located in part' New Orleans VooDoo as the Kansas City Brigade, there seems to be some whispers of expansion for even 2007. Put your guess where it is: How about St. Louis, Miami, Boston, Washington, and Pittsburgh. Could '07 be the year of four new teams? What's your guess and why?

[Leonard]

No one wants to chime in? Well, that's too bad. I thought we had some thinkers out there.

[Jamie]

How about it has been hashed and rehashed here and elsewhere and until the league offers up anything new in the way of news, there isn't much for thinkers to talk about?

[Pounder]

Especially given the league's recent track record, I've got to think that I'd want to actually see owner X bring out garish uniform Y at a press conference before even speculating that a team will exist.

[rams80]

As I stated in another thread, I honestly don't think the AFL will be doing much in the way of "expansion" next season. I believe the current expansion fees are doing more to drive out potential owners than serve as a vetting process for good ones. Again, I will go through your picks

Pittsburgh: Arena's a dump, plain and simple
St. Louis: No owner-Blues are for sale and Rams F.O. and ownership have bigger fish to fry right now.
Miami: Failed once, and although Baker would probably love to have another team here, I can't see either ownership stepping up or surviving long term.
Boston: New England region has failed 4 times, but none of the teams were in Boston. This might be the only expansion for next year, assuming they can scrape up the cash
Washington: At this point I don't think we'll ever see Snyder's Warriors take the field.

My picks for expansion: Boston and Des Moines (dark horse) or Indianapolis (if the AFL backs off on the fees)

[SuperSonicStuart]

I think Boston would be a good place for an AFL expansion team. I think Pittsburgh would too but I think Pittsburgh should get a new arena before getting an AFL team.

[grego34]

what about in the midwest?? Chicago is close to me and i have been there a few time. I thought Des Moines might still have a chance since Jim Foster is now a minority owner of the Quad City SteamWheelers and he has the rights of the Barnstormers name.

[preeths]

Look for Des Moines in af2, probably 2007. With a new arena, I have to believe it will happen sooner rather than later.

[BlazedWarrior]

Blaze 1-0. We gots Dallas at DC Saturday. Go Blazzzzzzzzzzze

[TouchdownInk]

wow Leonard, four teams. Talent would really thin out in the league don't you think

[chucknorris]

It's obvipusly a little premature to talk expansion since the league hasn't hinted at any new teams for 07. But what about promoting an AF2 team that has a good win/loss record and solid finances?

Louisville, Manchester, OKC all averaged ~7500 last year putting them on par with Grand Rapids attendance wise. All three teams finished at least 4 games over .500 and at least Louisville and OKC are what I would consider AAA-level cities.

I think it would be easier to build a solid AFL franchise if you have an established fan base. It wouldn't be too much of a stretch to think that Louisville and OKC could bring in 500-1000 more a night with the higher profile AFL national ad campaign. The higher prestige of the league would lead to more revenue from more ticket sales and a slight price increase, plus better advertising opportunities.

Plus, having two teams succeed on the AFL level would raise the prestige of the AF2 and give it a little more credibility.

[rams80]

It's obvipusly a little premature to talk expansion since the league hasn't hinted at any new teams for 07. But what about promoting an AF2 team that has a good win/loss record and solid finances?

Louisville, Manchester, OKC all averaged ~7500 last year putting them on par with Grand Rapids attendance wise. All three teams finished at least 4 games over .500 and at least Louisville and OKC are what I would consider AAA-level cities.

I think it would be easier to build a solid AFL franchise if you have an established fan base. It wouldn't be too much of a stretch to think that Louisville and OKC could bring in 500-1000 more a night with the higher profile AFL national ad campaign. The higher prestige of the league would lead to more revenue from more ticket sales and a slight price increase, plus better advertising opportunities.

Plus, having two teams succeed on the AFL level would raise the prestige of the AF2 and give it a little more credibility.

Alrighty then, just show me the ownership group in those markets that has $20 million upfront and $60 million in assets.

oopsie...there's a problem.

[preeths]

As rams80 mentioned, the economic realities of the AFL would prevent the vast majority of af2 teams, if not all of them, from moving up.

[Pounder]

Wonder what happens if Louisville gets the new arena they still plan for... with the University of Louisville team as the primary tenant?

Depends on the rent, I'd think.

[hawk174md]

The 49er ownership group has been considering placing an AFL expansion team in Sacramento. Sacramento had an AFL team in 92 and although the Attack lasted only season, they did pretty well at the gate. The Attack were 2-8 that year (it was the year the New Orleans Night went 0-10).

If any US city deserves a shot at an AFL expansion team, Sacramento is among them.

[tony-o]

The 49er ownership group has been considering placing an AFL expansion team in Sacramento. Sacramento had an AFL team in 92 and although the Attack lasted only season, they did pretty well at the gate. The Attack were 2-8 that year (it was the year the New Orleans Night went 0-10).

If any US city deserves a shot at an AFL expansion team, Sacramento is among them.
I've heard that story too. I think Sacramento is deserving, but there are many more deserving candidates as far as cities go. The ownership is obviously good though so it would work.

[AugustaGreenjackets]

Sacramento had an AFL team in 92 and although the Attack lasted only season, they did pretty well at the gate. The Attack were 2-8 that year (it was the year the New Orleans Night went 0-10).

.

Sacramento went 4-6 in the 1992 season. Attendance figures are as follows (home games only)........

1-6,601
2-6,215
3-7,493
4-8,226
5-8,226

[hawk174md]

Pittsburgh may be considered for AFL expansion in 2007.

The San Francisco 49er ownership groiup have considered placing an AFL franchise in Sacramento, since there are a severe lack of arenas in San Francisco.

I am also hopeful that the New Orleans VooDoo return as well.

To AugustaGreenjackets, thank you for correcting me on Sacramento's won-lost record in 92. I simply goofed.

[rams80]

Pittsburgh may be considered for AFL expansion in 2007.


Surely you jest.

[preeths]

Article from the Business Journals is up in our AFL section right now, confirming that Pittsburgh is a possibility. Remember, Pittsburgh housed one of the original AFL teams.

[ragefan]

There was a preview for an article in the Post Dispatch, St.Louis about the AFL eyeing St.Louis.. The article comes out 7/13 so we have to wait and see whats going on.

I know the NIFL team that plays there, River City Rage , knows nothing about this. Only a rumor Marshall Faulk is involved.

Anyone know anything???

Go Rage

[chdahs]

Pittsburgh may be considered for AFL expansion in 2007.

The San Francisco 49er ownership groiup have considered placing an AFL franchise in Sacramento, since there are a severe lack of arenas in San Francisco.

I am also hopeful that the New Orleans VooDoo return as well.

To AugustaGreenjackets, thank you for correcting me on Sacramento's won-lost record in 92. I simply goofed.

It was with the intention that the New Orleans VooDoo would return this season to the Arena Football League regardless of whether the KC Brigade were added or not.

If the Saints ownership plans to return to New Orleans (if it hasn't happened already) the VooDoo WOULD also.

[Geoff]

Pittsburgh may be considered for AFL expansion in 2007.

The San Francisco 49er ownership groiup have considered placing an AFL franchise in Sacramento, since there are a severe lack of arenas in San Francisco.

I am also hopeful that the New Orleans VooDoo return as well.

To AugustaGreenjackets, thank you for correcting me on Sacramento's won-lost record in 92. I simply goofed.

Every team wants to play in the Cow Palace!! (It seats 11,000. Small but the AFL's dont it before. ex. see Georgia Force during the one season at the Arena at Gwinnett Center [13000])

[Minor League Man]

Moo.

I think they should go for the Oakland Arena (best arena in the Bay Area, plus the Raiders have no interest in owning a team)

[hawk174md]

Look for Des Moines in af2, probably 2007. With a new arena, I have to believe it will happen sooner rather than later.

Boise and Alaska are with af2.

Boston has a pretty good chance of joining the AFL, although I won't make a big deal about it. Expect New Orleans to return in '07.

[preeths]

Have heard absolutely nothing out of Des Moines in the last few months. Not looking good for expansion in 2007. A shame as the market has sat long enough.

[Geoff]

Boise and Alaska are with af2.

Boston has a pretty good chance of joining the AFL, although I won't make a big deal about it. Expect New Orleans to return in '07.

Considering the link below and the fact that the Arena is in useable condition now, I'd say so.

VooDoo and Desperados to host joint tryout (http://www.oursportscentral.com/services/releases/?id=3356305)

[Pounder]

New Orleans will return.

I'm waiting for retrenchment after "Versus" becomes the TV guru for the league.

[rams80]

I was about to say, if the AFL doesn't get a better tv deal, I'm pretty sure Boston won't come in this year. And yeah, one or two teams may end up dropping out as well.

[phydeaux72]

I was about to say, if the AFL doesn't get a better tv deal, I'm pretty sure Boston won't come in this year. And yeah, one or two teams may end up dropping out as well.

Knowing Jerry Jones, if the AFL doesn't end up with a TV deal, he'll just buy one of the sports networks.

;)

[tony-o]

Have heard absolutely nothing out of Des Moines in the last few months. Not looking good for expansion in 2007. A shame as the market has sat long enough.
Seriously. I lived in Iowa before moving to Columbus, GA(home of the 2006 world champion Little League baseball team) and we wanted to have an AFL team. Not af2, an AFL team.

[Rooster]

Boston has been wanting to enter the league since 2005. However, they don't have their ducks in a row with their arena TD Bank North aka the Fleet Center. Rumor was that Doug Flutie was part of the ownership group in name only, as this is the AFL's ploy, but the rest of the ownership group was a bunch of slappies.

The last two non-bigger team affiliated, Austin and Kansas City, have struggled. Maybe not at the gates, although Austin has yet to ever sell out a game, but both clubs have lost millions. What do both teams have in common? Neither the Wranglers or the Brigade where willing to sit out a calendar year, therby hiring a competent staff to implement such necessities such as major corporate cash deals (instead of trade) and putting together a season ticket campaign instead of just winging it to an uneducated public. The league has been leary about letting any teams enter without the ownership groups having a full staff in place a year out. Oh, and it helps to have an arena lease done two years in advance, ala the Nashville Kats, as opposed to announcing a team and then getting hosed on the deal.

Like Tom Benson before him, who opted into the AFL in 1998 but didn't play his New Orleans franchise until 2004, both York (SF) and Synder (DC) did buy option deals on AFL franchises which will be running out in a year or so if they really want to field a team. Geoff is right that the 49ers ownership group is trying to get into Sac-town, but that is Maloof Bro territory and they have been rumored to maybe buying a team of their own. Synder may play, but it won't be in DC because Caps owner won't let him inside the MCI Center.

As far as Iowa ever getting an AF1 team, be realistic. Grand Rapids is the last stronghold and the league would like nothing more than to move that club to a bigger city. Heck, look how they disrespected a very successful Albany team to Indy only to watch that back fire.

With regards to Jerry Jones, he came very close to selling the Desperados. He lost $2 million two years ago and had it not been for last seasons impressive playoff run he might have pulled the plug on the experiment. To him, the Rados are just a Cowboys commercial.

[Shootmaster_44]

How about another shot at Canada?

I would say put a team in Le Colisee in Quebec City. The University of Laval nearby regularly attracts 18,000 fans to Canadian University football games. The average attendance for CIS football games is under 5,000.

Also, you could put a team in Saskatoon. The only slight drawback to Saskatoon is the fact that the Credit Union Centre seats around 12,000. But it could be a well attended team. At the very least af2 would work very well in Saskatoon.

For both these teams, they could have agreements with the CFL teams (Montreal and Saskatchewan respectively) to be a home for those teams' practice squads. Set up a sort of minor league for them, akin to NFL Europe, without the major costs of running an entire league.

[rams80]

How about another shot at Canada?

I would say put a team in Le Colisee in Quebec City. The University of Laval nearby regularly attracts 18,000 fans to Canadian University football games. The average attendance for CIS football games is under 5,000.

Also, you could put a team in Saskatoon. The only slight drawback to Saskatoon is the fact that the Credit Union Centre seats around 12,000. But it could be a well attended team. At the very least af2 would work very well in Saskatoon.

For both these teams, they could have agreements with the CFL teams (Montreal and Saskatchewan respectively) to be a home for those teams' practice squads. Set up a sort of minor league for them, akin to NFL Europe, without the major costs of running an entire league.

I shudder to think of the chances of an AFL team against the Remparts, especially considering the hole the owners will start off in for expansion fees (assuming the AFL wants to have a team in a building as old as Le Colisee).

As for Saskatoon, travel costs would almost certainly kill an af2 team there.

[Shootmaster_44]

I suppose you could be right. I had forgotten that the AFL had moved their season to start during hockey season. However, if a few big name players from Laval, Montreal and some of the other Quebec University programs were signed, I could see it working.

Laval fans are a breed of their own, think fans of Alabama or Texas and you'd get the idea of what fans in Laval are like. Its not unusual for the fans in Laval to stand behind the vistors' bench burning an effigy of the school's mascot. If you sign say Huertas-Flores or in the future Benoit Groulx, you might be able to tap into that rabidness. Also, football is quickly becoming the #1 watched sport in Quebec, of course Montreal Canadiens games will always be king. After, the Habs, football is immensely popular with TV numbers drawing better than QMJHL games. So if the right ownership team dropped into place, I figure that it would work.

Is there an indoor league on stable footing, that could be better for Saskatoon? Maybe I'm the only person in town who craves professional sports, but I would love to see an indoor team in Saskatoon.

[rams80]

There is not one on stable footing that could work in Saskatoon. UIF is the closest geographically, and the most stable, but your closest road trip would be Billings, and then Fort Collins and Sioux Falls.

[Shootmaster_44]

There is not one on stable footing that could work in Saskatoon. UIF is the closest geographically, and the most stable, but your closest road trip would be Billings, and then Fort Collins and Sioux Falls.

Damn. Well here's hoping for somebody to start an all-Canadian league then.

[blueridge]

To many league issues, with all the rule changes the new TV deal, witch I
think is great. I think maybe AF2. I love it the AFL keeps building and that
is great. If they could just do something about the defense rules and, and create more an ability to run the ball then it would be great.