Haines resigns as UIFL president

[preeths]

According to a league press release, a guy named Dr. Jim Krause is taking over:

http://www.oursportscentral.com/services/releases/?id=4416236

Sounds as if it will be a part-time gig for Mr. Krause as he already has some going concerns.

[Sonofanump]

Sounds as if it will be a part-time gig for Mr. Krause as he already has some going concerns.

Part time or short term?

[chuckyman]

They go from bad to worse but I guess it should be expected.

[DFWCC]

If Haines had anything to do with it,
I don't trust it.
If it was by common consent of the owners
I'll buy it.
JMO

[FootInBallDoor]

I think it was from Haines feeling the heat from fans about the way he constructed the league to favor the Tarpons.

[preeths]

But how was the league constructed to favor the Tarpons? Didn't the rest of the South, save Lakeland, essentially collapse? I can't think that's what Haines actually wanted. That's not to say that his team hasn't enjoyed a significant advantage over largely semi-pro and replacement competition, again save Lakeland, but I think all things being equal, league leadership would have rather had a solid South. They apparently were unable to make that happen and appear to have scrambled to save games in the couple viable southern markets they have.

[FootInBallDoor]

But how was the league constructed to favor the Tarpons? Didn't the rest of the South, save Lakeland, essentially collapse? I can't think that's what Haines actually wanted. That's not to say that his team hasn't enjoyed a significant advantage over largely semi-pro and replacement competition, again save Lakeland, but I think all things being equal, league leadership would have rather had a solid South. They apparently were unable to make that happen and appear to have scrambled to save games in the couple viable southern markets they have.

Well the league created all these crap teams in the south, and replaced them with even worse semi-pro teams. Now Haines is separating himself from the league to focus on how great his unbeaten Tarpons are. The Tarpons only play south teams. Meanwhile the north is full of three strong franchises (Marion, Erie, and Cincinnati). If Haines wanted what was best for the league he'd dump Johnstown, Rome, Mississippi, Western PA, and just have Lakeland, Florida, EKY, Cincy, Erie, and Marion play in one division. Bite the bullet, it's probably a better long-term business decision to get the bus out and drive north/south for real and competitive football.

That being said, I see your point. Maybe that's not how the league was intended, but that is how things turned out.

[daytonadan]

All of this has happened before, and all of this will happen again...

[tops804]

"Haines Resigns as UIFL President"


...A bit pretentious, as you would think the league would want to more accentuate the positive, not put Haines name in the type...Again.

Those teams in Erie, Marion, and Cincinnati could best join another league and let Florida find new play things in the South. The dirt on this leagues blue print is a little too heavy, to ever let this league be taken seriously again. New league president, new name (which may be next), or new anything else. It's still the same league that dumped teams, owners, sponsors, and fans for two seasons running.

[coachingubigr]

All of this has happened before, and all of this will happen again...

I don't necessarily think so Dan.I don't believe Haines will have the opportunity to run another league in the future, there fore this will be the last time he is able to step down, hence this won't happen again in Andrew Haines's case.

[exit322]

Well the league created all these crap teams in the south, and replaced them with even worse semi-pro teams. Now Haines is separating himself from the league to focus on how great his unbeaten Tarpons are. The Tarpons only play south teams. Meanwhile the north is full of three strong franchises (Marion, Erie, and Cincinnati). If Haines wanted what was best for the league he'd dump Johnstown, Rome, Mississippi, Western PA, and just have Lakeland, Florida, EKY, Cincy, Erie, and Marion play in one division. Bite the bullet, it's probably a better long-term business decision to get the bus out and drive north/south for real and competitive football.

That being said, I see your point. Maybe that's not how the league was intended, but that is how things turned out.

Haines' history, while tainted, does not indicate he sets up his leagues for his teams to run rampant. In fact, with teams he 100% owns, even with a 10-0 Tarpons team he might not be .500

Now, them playing all south teams to save on travel this year? I'll buy that. But it wasn't a competitive thing.

[FootInBallDoor]

...A bit pretentious, as you would think the league would want to more accentuate the positive, not put Haines name in the type...Again.

Yeah, why isn't the headline "Krauss named President" ?

[tops804]

I don't necessarily think so Dan.I don't believe Haines will have the opportunity to run another league in the future, there fore this will be the last time he is able to step down, hence this won't happen again in Andrew Haines's case.

Less we forget, Haines sold and bought this league back once already. Not to mention, he still has the baseball gig pending in the fall.

It seems less about actually making these leagues work, and more about sell high and buy low.

[Commando678]

Less we forget, Haines sold and bought this league back once already. Not to mention, he still has the baseball gig pending in the fall.

It seems less about actually making these leagues work, and more about sell high and buy low.

In his defense this is how you become rich and how you are supposed to do business. I do not fault him for trying to make a profit. Just the way he runs the league and how he tries to add expansion teams.

[daytonadan]

I don't necessarily think so Dan.I don't believe Haines will have the opportunity to run another league in the future, there fore this will be the last time he is able to step down, hence this won't happen again in Andrew Haines's case.

If not Haines, then someone else in a some similar situation.

[JeffKuntz]

Other than Everblades playoff games .. did any of the other Tarpons games get cancelled or rescheduled? If no - then Haines actually deserves an ounce of credit for doing whatever he had to in order to make sure his games got played.

Yeah they were sham games, but a lot of teams woulda just put "TONIGHT'S GAME CANCELLED" notices on their Facebook. Haines worked the phones and put on a show.. again - a sham show - but at least he put in a lot more effort than just Facebook and Twitter notices advising fans not to show up..

He also deserves several tons (tonnes?) of credit for securing Germain Arena as his home venue. I don't think everyone on OSC really appreciates that enough.

I'm well aware of his history as are many.. but I think he actually managed to get a D+ with his UIFL efforts and a B- with the Tarpons, which compared to the many F's he's gotten along the way is actually an improvement..

Not saying he's redeemed his past by any stretch of the imagination.. or even come close.. but in terms in Haines' World this actually was an improvement year..

[Sphinx]

If not Haines, then someone else in a some similar situation.

Dan there should be a group of owners out there that should just let me run a league. Don't you think that would be a great idea?:rolleyes: I'm actually serious. HAHAHAHAHAH Or have I started to hatch my own diabolical plan for the future of indoor and arena football as we know it*.

Lipkin (Mr. Irrelevant: 2005 AIFL Draft) hahahaha



*Actually what we know it to be right now is somewhere between the independent pro wrestling circuit and circus sideshow.

[DFWCC]

JK wrote

"TONIGHT'S GAME CANCELLED" notices on their Facebook. Haines worked the phones " etc...

If Andy would have vetted his owners (arena and financial stability to withstand start up woes etc.). There wouldn't have to be any "TONIGHT"S GAME CANCELLED" signs.

[Houston Caldwell]

But how was the league constructed to favor the Tarpons? Didn't the rest of the South, save Lakeland, essentially collapse? I can't think that's what Haines actually wanted. That's not to say that his team hasn't enjoyed a significant advantage over largely semi-pro and replacement competition, again save Lakeland, but I think all things being equal, league leadership would have rather had a solid South. They apparently were unable to make that happen and appear to have scrambled to save games in the couple viable southern markets they have.

Paul, I'm a longtime admirer of your work and your site, but can it be run without the often insulting remarks about "semi-pro football" which is actually properly called "adult amateur football"??????????

I represent such a program as an owner and President and can tell you that the athletes in the best tier of that sector of football are very good (about a half-dozen players are signed off my team every year by pro indoor teams, and some of them weren't starters on MY team but are starters on the indoor team that signed them). In Tennessee, the PIFL Knoxvile Nighthawks are the first indoor team to play in the state since 2007----- and a lot of my players would rather keep a good job in Nashville and play for my AMATEUR team than relocate to play for a very low-paying indoor team. About 2/3 of my team are former college football players, and we've had 4 players that were college All-Americans at either the DIAA or NAIA levels. So when they play for a professional indoor football team, it's because they are legitimate athletes at that level----- and they don't deserve to have their talents disrespected because they once played for my team.

Sorry to go into a rant, but at the tier of Indoor/Arena football that OSC follows, there are A LOT of good football players that have adult amateur football in their background somewhere----- that fact doesn't make them less good, less legitimate, or less exciting to watch play.

[exit322]

Paul, I'm a longtime admirer of your work and your site, but can it be run without the often insulting remarks about "semi-pro football" which is actually properly called "adult amateur football"??????????

I represent such a program as an owner and President and can tell you that the athletes in the best tier of that sector of football are very good (about a half-dozen players are signed off my team every year by pro indoor teams, and some of them weren't starters on MY team but are starters on the indoor team that signed them). In Tennessee, the PIFL Knoxvile Nighthawks are the first indoor team to play in the state since 2007----- and a lot of my players would rather keep a good job in Nashville and play for my AMATEUR team than relocate to play for a very low-paying indoor team. About 2/3 of my team are former college football players, and we've had 4 players that were college All-Americans at either the DIAA or NAIA levels. So when they play for a professional indoor football team, it's because they are legitimate athletes at that level----- and they don't deserve to have their talents disrespected because they once played for my team.

Sorry to go into a rant, but at the tier of Indoor/Arena football that OSC follows, there are A LOT of good football players that have adult amateur football in their background somewhere----- that fact doesn't make them less good, less legitimate, or less exciting to watch play.

An organized amateur team wouldn't have lost 100-0 to any indoor team, especially with the UIFL rule set. This was a bunch of guys that friends of friends called the morning of a game to get ready to play. Semi-pro is more than appropriate in this instance.

[DFWCC]

I always thought, (going back to the early 70's when I was part owner of
a "semi-pro" outdoor football team, indoor wasn't around then) that:
Pro -- meant you were paid enough that it was your main source of
income during the season. This can include hotel living exp.
.....ex Hotel living exp $480wk + $200 per game.

Semi-Pro -- You rec'd pay based on performance per game or season,
signed a contract and generally the pay rec'd is not enough to be
self sustaining. Say $500 or less per week in today's econ.

Amatuer -- Non pay status, game expenses covered (ins, travel, equip etc)
and maintains NCAA ellegibility.

[newiflfan]

Paul, I'm a longtime admirer of your work and your site, but can it be run without the often insulting remarks about "semi-pro football" which is actually properly called "adult amateur football"??????????

I represent such a program as an owner and President and can tell you that the athletes in the best tier of that sector of football are very good (about a half-dozen players are signed off my team every year by pro indoor teams, and some of them weren't starters on MY team but are starters on the indoor team that signed them). In Tennessee, the PIFL Knoxvile Nighthawks are the first indoor team to play in the state since 2007----- and a lot of my players would rather keep a good job in Nashville and play for my AMATEUR team than relocate to play for a very low-paying indoor team. About 2/3 of my team are former college football players, and we've had 4 players that were college All-Americans at either the DIAA or NAIA levels. So when they play for a professional indoor football team, it's because they are legitimate athletes at that level----- and they don't deserve to have their talents disrespected because they once played for my team.

Sorry to go into a rant, but at the tier of Indoor/Arena football that OSC follows, there are A LOT of good football players that have adult amateur football in their background somewhere----- that fact doesn't make them less good, less legitimate, or less exciting to watch play.

Really?! Nobody was taking a shot at your team. Get your panties out of a bunch.

[usfldan]

In order to justify the phrase “semi-pro” I’ve looked at it from an NCAA-eligibility point of view:

Amateur- A player who has never been paid to play, and thereby maintains “amateur” status.
Professional- A player who has been paid to play, thereby losing his “amateur” status, whether or not he is currently being paid.
Semi-Pro- a mixture of professional (as in no longer eligible as an amateur) and amateur players.

All the semi-pro leagues I’m aware of prohibit teams from paying their players. I think indoor leagues have filled the definition DFWCC had of semi-pro from the 70’s.

I agree with Houston 100%. When people talk about Team A beating up on a semi-pro team, the irony is that at least half the players on Team A probably came from semi-pro themselves. There are a number of semi-pro teams I know would make very good indoor teams, and in the case of the Storm, probably two or three indoor teams.

So yes, when someone uses "semi-pro" as a derogatory term, they are taking a shot at his team and my team as well.

[preeths]

Paul, I'm a longtime admirer of your work and your site, but can it be run without the often insulting remarks about "semi-pro football" which is actually properly called "adult amateur football"??????????

I represent such a program as an owner and President and can tell you that the athletes in the best tier of that sector of football are very good (about a half-dozen players are signed off my team every year by pro indoor teams, and some of them weren't starters on MY team but are starters on the indoor team that signed them). In Tennessee, the PIFL Knoxvile Nighthawks are the first indoor team to play in the state since 2007----- and a lot of my players would rather keep a good job in Nashville and play for my AMATEUR team than relocate to play for a very low-paying indoor team. About 2/3 of my team are former college football players, and we've had 4 players that were college All-Americans at either the DIAA or NAIA levels. So when they play for a professional indoor football team, it's because they are legitimate athletes at that level----- and they don't deserve to have their talents disrespected because they once played for my team.

Sorry to go into a rant, but at the tier of Indoor/Arena football that OSC follows, there are A LOT of good football players that have adult amateur football in their background somewhere----- that fact doesn't make them less good, less legitimate, or less exciting to watch play.

No offense intended. The semi-pros have a long history and are stocked with players who play for the love of the game, some of them very talented.

But the bottom line in relation to the indoor game is that semi-pro teams, or at least the ones that have frequently been pressed into service, have proven to be insufficient competition for any organized indoor team. Only infrequently have any semi-pro teams made a game of it. Some of that could be attributed to playing a new type of game, but we're talking 100-point blowouts in some cases. These generally have not been competitive games, and that's been the problem from the indoor perspective. Fans have essentially not received what they paid for.

[preeths]

In order to justify the phrase “semi-pro” I’ve looked at it from an NCAA-eligibility point of view:

Amateur- A player who has never been paid to play, and thereby maintains “amateur” status.
Professional- A player who has been paid to play, thereby losing his “amateur” status, whether or not he is currently being paid.
Semi-Pro- a mixture of professional (as in no longer eligible as an amateur) and amateur players.

All the semi-pro leagues I’m aware of prohibit teams from paying their players. I think indoor leagues have filled the definition DFWCC had of semi-pro from the 70’s.

I agree with Houston 100%. When people talk about Team A beating up on a semi-pro team, the irony is that at least half the players on Team A probably came from semi-pro themselves. There are a number of semi-pro teams I know would make very good indoor teams, and in the case of the Storm, probably two or three indoor teams.

So yes, when someone uses "semi-pro" as a derogatory term, they are taking a shot at his team and my team as well.

Those are essentially the definitions we use. I know some hate the perception that part-time pros might be lumped in with major leaguers, somehow believing it an insult to those at the top of the game, but really it represents the reality of the situation because they're all paid. I know some semi-pro teams have claimed to me that they provide pay, but at best it's a mix, and I don't believe you'd find an entire league that operates at a part-time pro level. Again, no insult to the semi-pros, but the economic realities of outdoor football make operating at the same business level as the indoor leagues very difficult.

[IndoorExpert]

In the same regard, I do not like the term semi-pro used. Most of the so-called semi-pro teams are actually in "pay to play leagues". In that regard, these leagues are actually "recreation leagues", and there is nothing professional about that. There are some very good recreational teams across the country, but there are many that are very poor. There are many that dont practice, have poor coaching, play on sub-par fields, etc.

To say that the "semi-pro" teams have not fared well in indoor games is well documented. I dont think anyone on here is speaking badly about the recreational leagues. However, it should be spoken about in a different category than an indoor team.

[JeffKuntz]

JK wrote

"TONIGHT'S GAME CANCELLED" notices on their Facebook. Haines worked the phones " etc...

If Andy would have vetted his owners (arena and financial stability to withstand start up woes etc.). There wouldn't have to be any "TONIGHT"S GAME CANCELLED" signs.

Everyone who's on OSC already knows that.

Speaking for myself - in comparison to what I personally know about most of Haines' previous ventures, he's actually taken a step forward this year. In some areas I feel he took some very large steps forward.

Disagree if you wish, it's just my own opinion.

[robster2001]

Speaking for myself - in comparison to what I personally know about most of Haines' previous ventures, he's actually taken a step forward this year. In some areas I feel he took some very large steps forward.

Yes, but when those steps are from "disastrous" to "negligent", it's probably not something to shout from the rooftops about.

[JeffKuntz]

Yes, but when those steps are from "disastrous" to "negligent", it's probably not something to shout from the rooftops about.


Again, those of us on OSC are already well aware of the wide-spread negligence in the minor league sports landscape.

The UIFL was probably par for the course (bad) in 2012, while the Tarpons performed better in many key areas than plenty of minor league outfits.

I'm certainly not going to transform in to a cheerleader for Haines.. but the fact remains he made some mistakes and some progress this year..

It's only fair to discuss the good along with the bad.. though it's always easier to focus exclusively on the bad..

[exit322]

Again, those of us on OSC are already well aware of the wide-spread negligence in the minor league sports landscape.

The UIFL was probably par for the course (bad) in 2012, while the Tarpons performed better in many key areas than plenty of minor league outfits.

I'm certainly not going to transform in to a cheerleader for Haines.. but the fact remains he made some mistakes and some progress this year..

It's only fair to discuss the good along with the bad.. though it's always easier to focus exclusively on the bad..

As a team owner, he made some progress. As a league owner, at best he stayed the same. That's why he's magically no longer in control of the league, and the headline saying as much was clear in its title that 'oh, he's not actually in charge anymore.'

[coachingubigr]

The following quote is from Andrew Haines, I pulled it from the Indoor Football Report Facebook page. lol.

"Andrew Leah Haines No lawsuits...we wanted to add to our front office of the league - I'm still on the board of directors."

Translation. I didn't like the job that I was doing so I decided to replace myself. Really?

[exit322]

The following quote is from Andrew Haines, I pulled it from the Indoor Football Report Facebook page. lol.

"Andrew Leah Haines No lawsuits...we wanted to add to our front office of the league - I'm still on the board of directors."

Translation. I didn't like the job that I was doing so I decided to replace myself. Really?

This really is the WWE. I believe you're right, this is what happened in the UIFL.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36u9BZDr5mc

[daytonadan]

http://m.naplesnews.com/news/2012/jun/09/indoor-football-tarpons-get-easy-win-regular-seaso/

Do I need to type anything else?

[BananaCat]

http://m.naplesnews.com/news/2012/jun/09/indoor-football-tarpons-get-easy-win-regular-seaso/

do i need to type anything else?
rotflmfao.

[coachingubigr]

http://m.naplesnews.com/news/2012/jun/09/indoor-football-tarpons-get-easy-win-regular-seaso/

Do I need to type anything else?

The owner suiting up and running in a TD himself is the actions of a self centered individual.

Did he write himself a game check afterwards?

[daytonadan]

The owner suiting up and running in a TD himself is the actions of a self centered individual.

Did he write himself a game check afterwards?

Better yet:

1) Was he on the official roster submitted to league officials?
2) Did the tarpons have more than the allotted players for the game?
3) Had he taken a physical?


In the universal scheme, who cares ... but there's letter of the law and spirit of the law, and if Mr. Haines wasn't properly paperworked, than there's a case the Tarpons should forfeit.

[EvilleRage]

The UIFL has a "celebrity" exemption clause that adds a roster spot.

[SugarBear]

This news just shows how pathetic this league is and the state of their leadership. If you are the former founder and president of the league, why would you suit up and run up the score on one of the team league members? To me, that's just downright disrespectful to the opposing team. Or does that just show the true level of the team that they were playing. That someone who hasn't played all year or ever before, that I know of, can just come in and run a 10 yard touchdown on them. Yikes. Erie, Cincinnati, and Marion, please do the right thing. Those are three solid programs. I think they should explore other options in my opinion.

[Sphinx]

*Actually what we know it to be right now is somewhere between the independent pro wrestling circuit and circus sideshow.[/QUOTE]


Boy with AH playing and scoring I really hit that one on the head.

[tops804]

Up 79-18 with under a minute to play, the Tarpons kept piling it on. The owner of the team, Andrew Haines, suited up for the game and played on the kickoff team throughout. With 43 seconds left in the game, Florida put Haines in at running back and he ran in a 10-yard touchdown.

This ranks; beyond disgusting.

Hopefully, the new league president will reprimand ownership for its unsportsmanlike conduct. That is unless Haines has taken back over after his playtime in the sandbox....

[BananaCat]

Haines' company is still the owner of the league. The fact that he hired a president means nothing. Haines is still the one in charge, the president is just a puppet.

The team they beat up on wasn't a league team, it was a replacement team (the semi-pro Palm Beach Phantoms). The Phantoms lost last week in Lakeland 0-100. So in two games they were 18-191 in point's for and against, which has got to be a new record in two games (or close to it). If a non-athlete is going to suit up against a team, this was the team to do it against.

[coachingubigr]

Better yet:

1) Was he on the official roster submitted to league officials?
2) Did the tarpons have more than the allotted players for the game?
3) Had he taken a physical?


In the universal scheme, who cares ... but there's letter of the law and spirit of the law, and if Mr. Haines wasn't properly paperworked, than there's a case the Tarpons should forfeit.

Excellent post Dan. Thank you for not giving us "this has happened before and it will happen again."

[daytonadan]

A couple of years ago, the AFL's Orlando Predators let a local radio personality named "Drunky The Bear" carry the ball late in a blowout victory.

So I can say "all of this happened before...."

[nksports]

So I can say "all of this happened before...."

Writer George Plimton did it in a scrimmage for the Detroit Lions in 1963.

[JeffKuntz]

http://m.naplesnews.com/news/2012/jun/09/indoor-football-tarpons-get-easy-win-regular-seaso/

Do I need to type anything else?

My own opinion is that if he had of had 1 ceremonial play .. while it would have been immature, he's probably earned the right to take the field with his team for 1 play in a token role..

But playing the entire game on special teams? Or at least on kick-offs? It's no longer a quirky (yet not unheard of) event.. he made himself a football player who contributed in the game..

He has to know better.. but apparently does not..

If he knows the Tarpons will not be returning and he's exiting pro sports management altogether, then I could at least understand his motivation.. but if he was just doing it for the hell of it then I admit I'm completely perplexed.

[DFWCC]

JeffKuntz said

"If he knows the Tarpons will not be returning and he's exiting pro sports management altogether,"

Then it was worth it :p, otherwise it was purely an ego play and
lowers the professionalism of some who have practised all
season and may not have seen action. Yet the clownplays only
because its his ball.
Ridiculous!:confused:

[JeffKuntz]

JeffKuntz said

"If he knows the Tarpons will not be returning and he's exiting pro sports management altogether,"

Then it was worth it :p, otherwise it was purely an ego play and
lowers the professionalism of some who have practised all
season and may not have seen action. Yet the clownplays only
because its his ball.
Ridiculous!:confused:

I hate to waste time by replying and simply saying "I agree"..

But I totally agree with your take about the Tarpon player or players who were at every practice, every game, gave it their all for the season and had some potential field time taken away by the owner.