Edmonton Capitals move to AA in 2013?

[G Lindenbach]

Does anyone know if the Edmonton Capitals are in discussions with the AA for entry in 2013? Would acceptance be contingent on joint entry with a revitalized Calgary franchise or Fort McMurray getting their stadium built?

[Eddie]

If there is a chance they would probably need 4 teams to make it happen. Don't see why the Canada thing never seemed to work out. Did have the CBL for a while there. Too much hockey on the brain I guess.

[G Lindenbach]

If there is a chance they would probably need 4 teams to make it happen.

I think two teams would be the bare minimum but the demise of Calgary has severley hurt Edmonton's chances of returning to pro-ball any time soon. I suspect that having two teams in Alberta doubles the chances of any league wanting to admit Edmonton - so, if I were the Edmonton owner, I would consider temporary support or ownership of a team in Calgary to get things off the ground.

I don't think we can really consider Fort McMurray into the equation until they get their stadium built - they could be ready for 2013 but I am increasingly skeptical about that.

Saskatoon has been frequently mentioned as a possible site for a western team but I don't know if they have an appropriate facility there either.

[Eddie]

AA had the 2 and it didn't work. It's a scheduling nightmare for cash strapped teams that are trying to survive.

Saskatoon has a WMBL team don't they. DOn't know if they'd coexist or kick them out.

If FortMc can get going I can see a 4th team but it's not one that was mentioned.

4 teams gives teams a long road trip and not just go play 8 games then come back again and again.

Travel ain't cheap anymore.

[G Lindenbach]

AA had the 2 and it didn't work.

Edmonton has never been part of the AA, however, you may be referring to their stint in the Northern League.

I agree that travel costs are the killer and 4 western Canadian teams would be a far better situation than only 2.

I don't see, however, 4 teams emerging in time for the 2013 season so if the league makes 4 a requirement than pro baseball will stay dark in Alberta in 2013 - at least that's my prediction.

3 new teams would make for a even number in the AA so maybe 3 is the magic number?

[Eddie]

NoL, AA...is there that much of a difference...

3 still leaves an very unbalanced schedule. You'd probably have the Canadian teams playing each other most of the season.

There are other cities in Canada with ballparks that could be ready for a 2013 season. Just don't see it happening unless they all get on the same page and Fort Mc needs to give up on this GBL/NABL, NAL/Whatever They Are Next Week thing because Edmonton isn't going back there.

I have my thoughts on a whole new league including Canada teams.

[G Lindenbach]

NoL, AA...is there that much of a difference...

I think there is sufficient difference - yes.

I have my thoughts on a whole new league including Canada teams.

So do I but probably not an appropriate discussion for the AA forum.

[Eddie]

I think there is sufficient difference - yes.


Well teams in the AA came from the league. Better management, etc but still same region.

There are 4 locations I think are prime in Canada right now. Well let's say 3 and a possible. And then you have Fort Mc if they can do what they say.

If teams only have to make 1-2 trips to Canada it makes it a lot easier on them, especially the low budget teams.

[G Lindenbach]

With the new AWBL and the old NAL Northern Division fighting for teams in the western USA in 2013 I think that the former NAL Canadian teams have become orphaned - so, Edmonton, Calgary and Fort Mac have almost no choice but to seek entry into the AA. Having said that, here are my percentage odds on what might happen as of May 18, 2012:

join AA in 2013 .............................. 50%
stay dark in 2013 ........................... 30%
create new Canadian only league ...... 20%
rejoin NAL Northern division .............. 0%
join AWBL ..................................... 0%
join AtL ........................................ 0%

[Eddie]

AtL? Wow that's reaching.....
But AWBL said they don't want Canada so that has to be 0%
If the Goldeyes are really pushing for more Canadian teams and those teams are actiuvely trying then I see the 3 going to the AA if they can work out the monetary part. Because they had a huge subsidy last time they were in the AA.

It's AA or dark. Can't see how the AWBL will survive with the dumb decisions they have made so far and the NAL is barely a beer league at this point.

[G Lindenbach]

AtL? Wow that's reaching.....

It might not be so far fetched once the AtL has teams in the western US in a few years - however, for right now - yeah it's reaching which is why I rated it a 0% percent chance. I never rated return to triple-A either but that is also 0% in my mind.

[Eddie]

Western US is still light years from Canada. Well not light years but you get the point...

[G Lindenbach]

Seems we have been discussing the entry of Edmonton, Calgary and possibly Fort McMurray into the AA in the wrong (NAL) forum. Can we continue that discussion here?

[nlfan]

The odds of any western Canadian team joining the American Association are next to nil.

The only way it would happen would be for 2 or more teams to be willing to subsidize the travel expenses of the clubs as happened when they first tried (and then failed) in the NoL. It is unlikely that even the oil boom in AB will lead any owners to be willing to take on that amount of additional expenses.

The latest news about baseball in western Canada is all about starting its own league:

See Ballpark Digest: http://ballparkdigest.com/201207125179/independent-baseball/news/new-canadian-pro-league-forming

[Eddie]

I can't see a western canadian league forming, not enough quality ballparks to house a indy team.

Article out of Fargo talks about expansion (http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/367434/group/Sports/) with Miles Wolff.

Kick out the WMBL and there you go.

Well if you added Victoria to Fort Mc, Calgary and Edmonton you'd have a good starting 4. Then Medicine Hat and other smaller ballparks and cities. DOn't know if Victoria is out of the running sdince they have a recent deal with the WMBL.

If done right, it could happen. And I do see them moving towards that with other leagues trying to localize. Will it happen is the big question.

[G Lindenbach]

It still looks increasingly likely to me that Edmonton and Calgary will stay dark in 2013 until critical mass is obtained for either a new Western Canadian only league or the AA has a change of heart about expanding into Alberta.

[Eddie]

It still looks increasingly likely to me that Edmonton and Calgary will stay dark in 2013 until critical mass is obtained for either a new Western Canadian only league or the AA has a change of heart about expanding into Alberta.
2013 is probably a lost cause

[G Lindenbach]

That might mean another year of WMBL (Edmonton Prospects) at Telus Field in 2013.

[G Lindenbach]

The Edmonton Capitals will be back playing at Telus Field for the 2013 season. This fall look for a announcement to be made.:-D

What do you know that gives you this optimism?

[G Lindenbach]

Orv Franchuk, the manager of the Edmonton Capitals, was interviewed on CTV news tonight and he stated that the Capitals would be back in 2013 in a "different" league - he would not elaborate on what that meant.

[Eddie]

Orv Franchuk, the manager of the Edmonton Capitals, was interviewed on CTV news tonight and he stated that the Capitals would be back in 2013 in a "different" league - he would not elaborate on what that meant.

Western Canadian Super Mega Ultra Stars League :)

I think Canada is more likely than anything else right now. Just because of distance and no dance partners.

[G Lindenbach]

American Association. Believe it:D

I would like to. I would rather see visiting teams from the US than from Moose Jaw. It might be a harder sell for a Western Canadian only league after all these years of having teams come in from exotic locations.

[Eddie]

A Western Canadian League is not going to happen. I will leave it at that.

Article on the Winnipeg Goldeyes website written by the voice of the Goldeyes Paul Edmonds says that he believes Edmonton will be add to the list of AA teams for the 2013 season, and Fort McMurray to be added in 2014 when there ballpark is complete. Poor Calgary get it together.

Read the article (http://www.goldeyes.com/news/behind-home-plate/217-re-living-the-old-days) for yourself. It's just Paul's opinion, but he has been with the Goldeyes doing play by play for over 15 years.
The "voice" isn't exactly who I'd go to for actual fact but he may know more than most.

The problem is that Edmonton is all alone. They may have to pay a very hefty subsidy or see Winnipeg a whole lot of times.

if the 3 teams all came in at once or there was a plan for it then I'd lean more that way.

I say it's 50/50 on WCL(ok, I'm sure it might have a better name than Western Canada League) or AA but only if they can get their "ducks in a row" or find a way to subsidize the low end teams of the AA. They're the ones that would be a problem when adding teams so far out.

[G Lindenbach]

I would be very surprised if Edmonton was admitted to the AA without Calgary joining at the same time. The lack of any news at all out of Calgary is troubling. I still think the only way to guarantee pro ball in Edmonton in 2013 is for a Calgary team to be reborn - one way or another.

[G Lindenbach]

Well folks, here we are on August 17th patiently waiting for the Edmonton Capitals to make some sort of an annoucement on their plans for pro ball in Edmonton in 2013.

I would submit that we have now entered about a 30-45 day window wherein an annoucement must be made since leagues like the AA tend to release their next season's schedules in late September or early October.

Your thoughts? Agree/disagree?

[pilots13]

Not necessarily. I seem to remember both S-B moved to Laredo in November and FtW dropped out to the NAL about the same time, then it was sometime after that the combined schedule with the Can-Am league came out. Ideally they would like things squared away by then, but with the volatility of indy ball lately, it's more likely we will know the formal lineup and schedule by Christmastime.

[G Lindenbach]

Good points. From a marketing perspective, even if a schedule is not released, I'm sure that the Edmonton Capitals would be better off with an annoucement about their proposed future sooner rather than later. Bringing the team back and promoting season ticket sales requires as much lead time as possible. If it's the AA that they are joining, then it should be an easy sell - if something else, goodness knows how local ball fans might react after watching a horrible Propects season at Telus field.

[nksports]

I fully expect all of the teams currently in the American Association to return in 2013.

Word is El Paso may be gone because the city fathers want Class AAA affiliated ball (of course El Paso struggled to support Texas League AA ball for its final years there).

[Eddie]

El Paso may still play this coming year but after that they may be gone.

[G Lindenbach]

Still waiting for an official announcement from the Edmonton Capitals about their plans for 2013, however, from the Edmonton Journal August 23:

Patrick LaForge, the custodian of the dormant independent baseball franchise owned by the Edmonton Oilers, will not toss aside the prospect of Triple A ball eventually returning to the city.

But the immediate focus is on the American Association of Independent Professional Baseball.

“We think we could be in that league and they think we’d be a fine addition,” LaForge said about the AAIPB. “We’re just talking through the details.”

“This would be very doable for next summer,” said LaForge, the Oilers CEO, “but there are still some things to be done.”

[DJ Omnimaga]

Question: If the Can-Am league ever merged with the American Association as a Northeast division (assuming enough team survived the merge, which I assume 4 or 5 is required, seeing each division got that amount of teams), what would happen with the Edmonton Capitals and Quebec Capitales names if both joined the league? Would one team be forced to change name or would they be allowed to keep them like how in the Canadian Football League there used to be two Roughriders teams (the second one being Ottawa)? It would definitively be strange to have one league with two teams with (almost) identical names (the only one being that one of them is French), though, but a name change in Quebec would be disastrous as their team has been called the Capitales in their 13 years of existence.

[robster2001]

Question: If the Can-Am league ever merged with the American Association as a Northeast division (assuming enough team survived the merge, which I assume 4 or 5 is required, seeing each division got that amount of teams), what would happen with the Edmonton Capitals and Quebec Capitales names if both joined the league?

They'd probably let both teams stand pat.

Not only is there the CFL precedent, but when the AHL absorbed the remnants of the failing IHL, the league wound up with two sets of Admirals (Milwaukee from the IHL, Norfolk from the AHL), and both teams maintain their names today.

[G Lindenbach]

They'd probably let both teams stand pat.


I agree. The cost of renaming a team is not insignificant and I would be surprised if the AA required either team to change their name.

[nksports]

I agree. The cost of renaming a team is not insignificant and I would be surprised if the AA required either team to change their name.

Especially since both leagues share the same commissioner.

[G Lindenbach]

Twitter message September 13:

"Rexall Sports Entertainment continues to pursue a new league for the Caps; we remain confident there will be pro ball at TELUS Field in 2013"

[G Lindenbach]

Well, another month has passed with no firm news from the Edmonton Capitals on their plans for 2013. Since no schedule has been released by the AA there is still hope that Edmonton might be included.

I think, however, that we are approaching a danger zone where plans *must* be announced in order to ensure a successful marketing campaign to resurrect pro ball in Edmonton.

Inevitably, one has to wonder about the wisdom of a hockey team owning a baseball team. Has the NHL lockout and/or the aborted new coliseum deal in Edmonton taken away from our ability to get baseball back on track?

We know without a doubt that a football team owning a baseball team was a real *BAD* idea for Edmonton when they sold off our AAA team - are Edmonton baseball fans about to get the short end of the stick once again?

[Shootmaster_44]

Well, another month has passed with no firm news from the Edmonton Capitals on their plans for 2013. Since no schedule has been released by the AA there is still hope that Edmonton might be included.

I think, however, that we are approaching a danger zone where plans *must* be announced in order to ensure a successful marketing campaign to resurrect pro ball in Edmonton.

Inevitably, one has to wonder about the wisdom of a hockey team owning a baseball team. Has the NHL lockout and/or the aborted new coliseum deal in Edmonton taken away from our ability to get baseball back on track?

We know without a doubt that a football team owning a baseball team was a real *BAD* idea for Edmonton when they sold off our AAA team - are Edmonton baseball fans about to get the short end of the stick once again?

I am concerned about the Caps if Katz does move the Oilers. Likely, the City of Edmonton and the Katz Group will get things done. But if they don't, I really don't see Katz owning a NHL team in Seattle or Quebec City and a Indy League baseball team in Edmonton. I really think the only reason the Caps exist(ed) was to allow the sales and marketing people to have full-time jobs in the spring and summer (since the Oilers weren't doing much in that regard) and for Katz to have a lost leader on his books to allow for some write-offs.

[G Lindenbach]

Well, the American Association teams have begun to release their 2013 schedule and it does NOT look like the Edmonton Capitals are included so that would probably mean that pro baseball in Edmonton is finished - maybe for good. I blame Rexall Sports and Mr. Katz for not really caring about baseball - otherwise, something could have been done.

[preeths]

Something can always be done if someone else is willing to pay for it. There really isn't an alternative that makes economic sense for Edmonton right now.

[smallballfan]

I blame Rexall Sports and Mr. Katz for not really caring about baseball - otherwise, something could have been done.

I would think they care, otherwise there would have never been baseball in Edmonton in the first place. People don't put their money and lives into these things if they don't care. Many other ways to make a lot more money.

Caring is one thing - economics is another. At some point you have to look at what's possible and figure out if it makes sense financially. It's obvious that indy baseball, at this time, doesn't make sense for Edmonton. Doesn't mean it never will.

[G Lindenbach]

Caring is one thing - economics is another.

Yes - we are speaking of passion and committment here. Rexall Sports is not passionate enough about baseball to sustain some losses and invest in the future. For that matter, the majority of the population in Edmonton is not passionate about baseball either - this is a hockey town.

Change starts at the top however and I believe that baseball could become successful once again in Edmonton with the right ownership and marketing