Question mark

[jerry101jlh]

HIDALGO -- The Rio Grande Valley Magic arena football team is about to join the Lone Star Football League, where all teams will be based in Texas, and all will be owned by current Magic owner Chad Dittman.

Brings into question what some have said about Chad Dittmans ownership of certain teams. I do not believe the newscaster to be 100% accurate, but there again I didn't make this up. Here's the link to the article and video. http://www.valleycentral.com/sports/story.aspx?id=662639

[Alhammer]

HIDALGO -- The Rio Grande Valley Magic arena football team is about to join the Lone Star Football League, where all teams will be based in Texas, and all will be owned by current Magic owner Chad Dittman.

Brings into question what some have said about Chad Dittmans ownership of certain teams. I do not believe the newscaster to be 100% accurate, but there again I didn't make this up. Here's the link to the article and video. http://www.valleycentral.com/sports/story.aspx?id=662639

Seems like some things never change. who knows whats true. Nothing surprises us anymore does it?

[jerry101jlh]

Seems like some things never change. who knows whats true. Nothing surprises us anymore does it?

Only if the surprise is taking things in the right direction lol

[VinnyTheViper]

The three articles below document who owns what as it pertains to Rio Grande Valley, Corpus Christi, and Houston. I found all of this in a matter of five minutes of internet searching, how the heck do you think that I was able to put the big picture together as to what was going on? Sometimes, you have got to be willing to do a little research and ask some questions. These three stories, which were released early in the 2011 SIFL season, certainly paint a different picture than what the RGV sportscaster paints in his story, he makes it sound like the whole operation is known as the Chad Dittman Show. Also very telling, is the fact that Joe Kramer's name is never mentioned in the RGV sportscaster's story. Let's see, Joe Kramer walks in and saves Houston, secures an arena for them to play in, buys 50% of both CC and RGV, and all of this happens in just a matter of a couple of months, so you tell me who the real money is behind these teams? I think it is pretty obvious!


From the Corpus Christi Hammerheads team website:

Businessman Joe Kramer New Co-Owner of Hammerheads
3/3/2011
CORPUS CHRISTI, TEXAS – Local businessman Joe Kramer has joined Chad Dittman as joint owners of Corpus Christi Hammerheads arena football team. The two are also joint owners of the Rio Grande Valley Magic which plays in McAllen. Both teams are part of the 16-team Southern Indoor Football League.

The Hammerheads brought arena football to Corpus Christi seven years ago and now play at the bayfront American Bank Center. The team’s 12-game season begins March 19 in Abilene with the first home game on Saturday, April 9th, against the Rio Grande Valley Magic. Kramer has 30 years experience in business management. For the past 15 years he has worked in the environmental services industry in the Coastal Bend. He is a board member of the Corpus Christi Regional Economic Development Corp., a past president of the Nueces County Rural Rail District and past president of the Robstown Area Development Commission.

Thom Hager of Lake Charles, president of the Southern Indoor Football League, welcomed Kramer to the group of team owners. “Joe has been a great fan of the Hammerheads over the years and brings his passion and business savvy to the team,” Hager said. Dittman said Kramer’s management experience is already having a valuable impact on the Hammerheads organization.

http://htosports.com/teams/default.asp?u=HAMMERSLAP&t=c&s=football&p=newsstory&newsID=26364



Stallions bring football, wins back to Houston
Commentary
No uniforms? No home? No losses
JEROME SOLOMON
Copyright 2011 Houston Chronicle
Published 05:30 a.m., Friday, May 6, 2011

With NFL owners and players spending tens of millions on a court case basically to help settle a dispute over how to split $9 billion, the status of the Texans' 2011 season remains uncertain.

The Houston Stallions, a professional indoor football team, had a simpler pecuniary concern entering their inaugural season.

Uniforms.

A couple of days before their first scheduled game in the Southern Indoor Football League, the Stallions were faced with possibly having to play the game naked.

OK, that's an exaggeration — and I am sure illegal in Texas — but due to unstable ownership, the team's uniforms were ordered but not paid for. Worse yet, a few days before the expansion franchise's season opener at TSU's H&PE Arena, the contract between the team and the university couldn't be finalized, and the Stallions had nowhere to host the game.

This was not exactly the best way to jump-start a professional football franchise.

But in stepped Joe Kramer, a co-owner of league franchises in Corpus Christi and the Rio Grande Valley, to foot the bill for the uniforms and cover the costs of moving the first game to Corpus. A couple weeks later, Kramer, still waiting for reimbursement for that initial outlay, assumed ownership of the team.. The Stallions, who host the Abilene Ruff Riders on Sunday night at the Merrill Center in Katy, haven't looked back.

Actually, they have looked good. Very good.

Coach Gerald Dockery's squad was hardly fazed by the ownership situation and won that first game 52-20.

"You could tell coach Dockery had done a remarkable job keeping everything together through all the chaos of bad ownership," Kramer said.

Dockery has taken a team that wasn't sure it would play to the top of the league standings.

At 7-0, the Stallions have already clinched the Southwest Division title in the 16-team league, which has squads spread from Abilene to Trenton, N.J.

The Stallions and the Albany (Pa.) Panthers are the only teams without a loss.

"We're almost a team that didn't happen," said Dockery, a Houston native and former star receiver at Eastern New Mexico who spent time on the roster with Doug Flutie and Jeff Garcia on the 1995 Grey Cup finalist in Calgary. "When you're almost a team that never was, you can come together or fall apart."

http://www.chron.com/sports/texans/article/Solomon-Stallions-bring-football-wins-back-to-1686622.php



Magic to introduce new co-owner


McALLEN — The Rio Grande Valley Magic on Friday will hold a news conference in Edinburg announcing that Joe Kramer has become a part owner of the first-year franchise. Kramer will have 50 percent of the team, while founder and president Chad Dittman will keep hold of the other half. The team will also announce the full schedule for its upcoming training camp, which is expected to begin Saturday, along with an introduction for what the team called “marquee” players.

The Magic’s official debut is March 19 when they visit Houston. Their home opener is March 27 at State Farm Arena in Hidalgo.

http://www.themonitor.com/sports/magic-47658-mcallen-new.html

[sportznut]

Joe is a GREAT guy and passionate about doing everything the right way and entertaining fans!

[VinnyTheViper]

Joe is a GREAT guy and passionate about doing everything the right way and entertaining fans!


While I do not know the man, it appears that he might have saved three teams from a bad ending during the 2011 season. If even remotely true, then he deserves high marks from the fans. Maybe we should spend a lot more time talking about guys like Joe Kramer, and get off of this Chad Dittman lovefest that we seem to be on.

[silver14]

But the question is will the league work with only 7 teams....and what's goin to happen to the SIFL?

[jerry101jlh]

Read my posts Vinny. Good that Kramer saved the day and hope those decisions work out for him long term, but issue isn't about what CD owns or doesn't own or even what he controls. Its about his attitude to get his own way and when that happens who he can convince to pull the plug on the current league those are in. CD doesn't know how to compromise or work with in a league to improve things. History says his way or the highway. At least in the case of Columbus, Albany, and Alabama it appears they tried to work on the SIFL issues before just saying screw it. Not the case with CD, just polled the other Texas owners and convinced them to get out. It has been this way each and every time.

[Billy5]

Does CD have this kind of money? What is his real business?

[jerry101jlh]

Does CD have this kind of money? What is his real business?

Unless something has changed he bought up area leases when the government was selling them for cell phone territories. I believe he is still collecting on those leases. Do not know if he has any other investments or income.

[VinnyTheViper]

And the latest from the Corpus Christi Hammerheads website:

HAMMERHEAD SITE UNDER CONSTRUCTION
8/29/2011
Recently there have been some new changes with the Corpus Christi Hammerheads with new ownership and new staff. Due to technical issues, our site is currently under construction. Please call 361.814.7277 for any information.

http://hometeamsonline.com/teams/default.asp?u=HAMMERSLAP&t=c&s=football&p=newsstory&newsID=30087

[jerry101jlh]

And the latest from the Corpus Christi Hammerheads website:

HAMMERHEAD SITE UNDER CONSTRUCTION
8/29/2011
Recently there have been some new changes with the Corpus Christi Hammerheads with new ownership and new staff. Due to technical issues, our site is currently under construction. Please call 361.814.7277 for any information.

http://hometeamsonline.com/teams/default.asp?u=HAMMERSLAP&t=c&s=football&p=newsstory&newsID=30087

Oh never mind, you insist on not staying on point which is ownership of x amount of teams or majority ownership has little to do with control and power at times. In the moves the Intense league or Texas teams if you will have made, Mr. Dittman has held the power at few times in those moves, nor the majority ownership in the majority of teams, yet has been the focal point in all of the moves. It's open to debate whether he actually sold others on the moving or they made up their own minds. My opinion is he sold enough of the others on the move to make it happen. Since you bring no credible arguments to the table and continue to fall back on majority ownership as your only argument, then we'll leave it at that, but history does say different. Sorry, but it does.

[LewInDenver]

http://www.valleycentral.com/sports/story.aspx?id=662639

HIDALGO -- The Rio Grande Valley Magic arena football team is about to join the Lone Star Football League, where all teams will be based in Texas, and all will be owned by current Magic owner Chad Dittman.

As reported by Action 4 news in Hidalgo, Tx.

[LewInDenver]

San Angelo returns, and CLEARLY it is reported that he owns ALL the teams! Pretty hard to dispute the claims that have been made on this message board! CONTROL FREAK out of control in Texas.

[LewInDenver]

Sorry Jerry, I didnt see that you nailed this at the top, went straight to the second page.

[jerry101jlh]

Sorry Jerry, I didnt see that you nailed this at the top, went straight to the second page.

Funny Lew and I'm not saying people can change or what history says is the real truth, but still feel the CD history can not be ignored although do hope this time around better heads than him block any crazy moves.

[exit322]

He's usually had co-owners for ventures. Mike Taylor (Haines' right-hand man) was involved on his Alaska experiment. Doesn't mean he doesn't have control, though.

[Trish_lvs_Baltimore]

What do you guys think the chances of Allen & West Texas joining this league? I wouldn't be surprised if El Paso is trying to get a team...

[jerry101jlh]

What do you guys think the chances of Allen & West Texas joining this league? I wouldn't be surprised if El Paso is trying to get a team...

West Texas yes, Allen a clear unknown

[Gusher]

What do you guys think the chances of Allen & West Texas joining this league? I wouldn't be surprised if El Paso is trying to get a team...

They will do whatever the all powerful CD demands. You there step away from that curtain. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain the great and powerful CD has spoken.

Come on Jerry... moves were needed if CD was the mastermind are not they looked to be the best moves at the time.

[jerry101jlh]

They will do whatever the all powerful CD demands. You there step away from that curtain. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain the great and powerful CD has spoken.

Come on Jerry... moves were needed if CD was the mastermind are not they looked to be the best moves at the time.

Gusher I do respect your opinion and you are closer to things than I am, but you can not tell me that as many times these teams have switched leagues it can be viewed as anything more than crazy.

[Gusher]

Moving from Intense to the NIFL at the time the NIFL still looked good the teams could still have the regional foot print and CS promised the world. Guess what as you well know CS's world is a troubled one.

Move from NIFL back to their own Intense. (no brainer)

Move from Intense to IFL well on paper no that right things were not put in paper ok things were promised and did not always happen. Some teams saw that there was very little intrest from the league for growth or support in this reagion. Fees, and travel continued to grow so time to make it better.

Move from IFL to SIFL. Best chance of cutting loss was a change and had more teams elected to move I think the LSFL would have been formed last year instead of this year. But with only the 4 teams they chose to deal with in TH and the rest.

Move from SIFL to LSFL (no brainer)

So Jerry what CRAZY move was there. Please tell me you would not want him to stick with the NIFL or SIFL or lose money out the y-zoo in the IFL.

I will say this what little dealings I have had with CD I have heard him say more than once he wants to devote his time to his team or teams and less toward league affairs.

I would want an owner that runs his team like a business. Making those moves at the time made good business sense.

[jerry101jlh]

Although there is no proof I can provide and many will say the casual or average fan could care less about league affiliation I believe that when you bounce from one league to another, regardless of reason, it will affect attendance and sponsors in a negative way.

I know you can only go on what you are told or heard. Like me, never on the spot, so our knowledge hearsay. I do believe the move out of the IFL to the SIFL to be one where more teams could be developed in Texas at a cheaper price, 15K SIFL, vs 50K+ in IFL.

As far as what you've heard CD say, believe what you will, but that man lied to me on more than one occasion while I was with the NIFL. As far as trusting him, sorry, same trust I'd give to CS, ZERO

[daytonadan]

All of this has happened before and all of this will happen again.....

The definition of insanity of doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result each time.

Jerry vs. Gusher. Vinny vs. Jerry. The eternal conflict between me and Jerry. Indoor Expert is right, the entertainment value of us spewing and regurgitating the same old stuff does have entertainment value.

Finally, congrats to Sportznut for his new gig as LSFL Ops Director, according to my source. So does this put us back at 2008 when he was Intense or 2009 when he was SIFL?

[coachingubigr]

Not that it really matters much, but I did speak with a Richmond Raider DB the other day. He said he didn't care which league the team was in..he just wants to play.

[jerry101jlh]

Don't know if you noticed Dan, but we are covering some new ground. Its never been discussed as to why the Texas teams have moved so often. Bottom line is most is speculation based on 3rd party info anyway, but as long as Paul doesn't care if we eat into his storage, all is good.

You see everything as rehashing old news and regard everything posted as happened before, will happen again, and you may very well be right, but it's conversation and debate, like discussing politics or religion, same ol arguments yet taken on by debaters time and time again. Nobody here is saying read this, their choice if they do. All I ask is that people stay on topic or stay off the keyboard.

Gusher and some others are not incorrect in their assessment of things past, have their opinions and I respect that. I do not respect those that try over and over to avoid the issue of the topic with other facts or fiction that have little or nothing to do with the topic. Vinny was adamant in his postings of CD not in power on one thread, but that wasn't the topic. You pop in with the old happened before, happen again thing as you often do. So who is guilty of rehashing old stuff, us, you, or all?

[daytonadan]

Don't know if you noticed Dan, but we are covering some new ground. Its never been discussed as to why the Texas teams have moved so often. Bottom line is most is speculation based on 3rd party info anyway, but as long as Paul doesn't care if we eat into his storage, all is good.

You see everything as rehashing old news and regard everything posted as happened before, will happen again, and you may very well be right, but it's conversation and debate, like discussing politics or religion, same ol arguments yet taken on by debaters time and time again. Nobody here is saying read this, their choice if they do. All I ask is that people stay on topic or stay off the keyboard.

Gusher and some others are not incorrect in their assessment of things past, have their opinions and I respect that. I do not respect those that try over and over to avoid the issue of the topic with other facts or fiction that have little or nothing to do with the topic. Vinny was adamant in his postings of CD not in power on one thread, but that wasn't the topic. You pop in with the old happened before, happen again thing as you often do. So who is guilty of rehashing old stuff, us, you, or all?

Who died and made you boss? It's so much fun seeing you call people out just because you don't agree with them.

Bottom line is we're back to 2008 without Benizio and Hager but with Dittman and Jones calling the shots. Haines has practically rebuilt the AIFL to 2006 alignment, give or take and the af2 is now the AFL wearing AFL uniforms. We're still arguing on message boards and the same mistakes are about to be made. When you fail to learn from the past, you're condemned to repeat it.

[jerry101jlh]

Let's speculate some Gusher and any other I can get to join my madness. If this new LSFL doesn't meet expectations, where do these teams go next, PIFL (assuming it survives) or???????????

Oh and I apologize up front if I get on your nerves, call you out because you're wrong or anything else which might cause any to show up on my doorstep with a loaded gun.

[daytonadan]

Let's speculate some Gusher and any other I can get to join my madness. If this new LSFL doesn't meet expectations, where do these teams go next, PIFL (assuming it survives) or???????????

Oh and I apologize up front if I get on your nerves, call you out because you're wrong or anything else which might cause any to show up on my doorstep with a loaded gun.
I'm not that level of lunatic and I'm overlooking your insuniation that I am. Besides, you're not worth the gas money or the bullet or the gun permit and besides, it's so much fun sparring with you here.
Let the LSFL and PIFL play themselves out and then we can speculate, starting the whole process all over again.

[Hockey]

Is anyone else just amazed that indoor football has lasted this long at all.

[preeths]

As far as what you've heard CD say, believe what you will, but that man lied to me on more than one occasion while I was with the NIFL. As far as trusting him, sorry, same trust I'd give to CS, ZERO

I don't know the details, but my guess is that was a dysfunctional relationship, if not from the start, then fairly early on. It may be that he felt he had reason to be less than truthful with the league because someone with the league (not you) had been less than truthful with him.

[jerry101jlh]

I don't know the details, but my guess is that was a dysfunctional relationship, if not from the start, then fairly early on. It may be that he felt he had reason to be less than truthful with the league because someone with the league (not you) had been less than truthful with him.

From what I seen the Intense league got nothing less than what was promised. At the first league meeting CD attended tried to get rule changes that would have more closely aligned the rules to arena style and was shut down almost immediately. I heard him first hand complain about not far that more of the Intense league style of play not incorporated into the rules. I think the tone for things set right in that first meeting.

Near the end of the season he organized a secret meeting to pull interested teams out of the NIFL and into a reinvented Intense league. Of course that was a few years back and maybe my memory not as good as it should be, but at that time of the season things weren't that bad, no worse than any other season and in some respects better than previous.

The Intense League got a bargain deal to come into the NIFL, nothing down, so easy for those teams to pull right back out again.

His lies had to do with keeping up his part of the bargain in reporting stats and the like. He only lied to keep from being fined

[preeths]

I would argue that things were bad in the NIFL at that time. There were a bunch of teams which I learned were being propped up by the league, and I think that virtually every season you saw a lowering of overall organizational quality with an outright scam artist even getting involved with multiple teams over multiple years. The league went so far as to send a lawyer after OSC for reporting that the NFL officiating partnership had ended, even though we had a statement directly from the NFL officiating department! It's tempting to remember the NIFL's troubles solely based on its utterly disastrous final season, but the truth is that it slid down the hill over multiple years. I believe the Intense League's mistake was in aligning itself with the NIFL in the first place, not in getting out.

[jerry101jlh]

At that time the NIFL needed the Intense league more than they needed the NIFL. Keep in mind that was the season following the UIF teams defection. That had already set the failure in motion. The Intense teams, along with Louisiana pulling back out hurt more than maybe the UIF thing. But I still do not believe the Intense League entered into anything they didn't know. The NIFL had already been in business for 4 or 5 years, their way of doing business a known factor. If the Intense teams didn't know what awaited them they were just plain stupid.

[daytonadan]

So when did all of this stuff happen?

[preeths]

At that time the NIFL needed the Intense league more than they needed the NIFL. Keep in mind that was the season following the UIF teams defection. That had already set the failure in motion. The Intense teams, along with Louisiana pulling back out hurt more than maybe the UIF thing. But I still do not believe the Intense League entered into anything they didn't know. The NIFL had already been in business for 4 or 5 years, their way of doing business a known factor. If the Intense teams didn't know what awaited them they were just plain stupid.

I think we're essentially on the same page. The Intense League's merger with the NIFL was a mistake for a variety of reasons. Their eventual defection, on the other hand, was understandable.

[Devil Dawg]

HIDALGO -- The Rio Grande Valley Magic arena football team is about to join the Lone Star Football League, where all teams will be based in Texas, and all will be owned by current Magic owner Chad Dittman.

Brings into question what some have said about Chad Dittmans ownership of certain teams. I do not believe the newscaster to be 100% accurate, but there again I didn't make this up. Here's the link to the article and video. http://www.valleycentral.com/sports/story.aspx?id=662639
For the record, Dittman has no part in the ownership of the Frisco Falcons and he does not "own" the LSFL.

The Falcons ownership group are planning on owning 3 LSFL teams and 1 AFL team within the next couple of years if everything goes according to plans. The 2 additional LSFL teams have not been named because 1 of them may or may not be ready for 2012 and the 2nd won't exist until 2013.

The AFL team should be ready for 2012 but I'm not at liberty to mention any specifics until they make an official announcement.

[preeths]

When will the Falcons officially join the LSFL?

[Devil Dawg]

When will the Falcons officially join the LSFL?
They are working on finalizing legal documentation and official acceptance into the league but now that league has become official, there should be an official announcement by the end of this month.

[jerry101jlh]

One ownership group to own four teams. Does anyone see a problem here?

[IndoorExpert]

One ownership group to own four teams. Does anyone see a problem here?

And one being an AFL team. I hope the ownership group is headed by some old old old money. Why would an ownership group join the AFL and not put all of their efforts there? Why would they want 3 more teams in indoor football. What would the AFL think of that? I guess the AFL conspiracy link is alive and well.

[sportznut]

\s spewing and regurgitating the same old stuff does have entertainment value.

Finally, congrats to Sportznut for his new gig as LSFL Ops Director, according to my source. So does this put us back at 2008 when he was Intense or 2009 when he was SIFL?


Wohoo, My name is still be tossed around in a positive light.. Guess i will leave my phone on an wait for this call.. Thanks for the heads up dan

[BananaCat]

I would argue that things were bad in the NIFL at that time. There were a bunch of teams which I learned were being propped up by the league, and I think that virtually every season you saw a lowering of overall organizational quality with an outright scam artist even getting involved with multiple teams over multiple years. The league went so far as to send a lawyer after OSC for reporting that the NFL officiating partnership had ended, even though we had a statement directly from the NFL officiating department! It's tempting to remember the NIFL's troubles solely based on its utterly disastrous final season, but the truth is that it slid down the hill over multiple years. I believe the Intense League's mistake was in aligning itself with the NIFL in the first place, not in getting out.
Things were definitely bad in the NIFL in 2005, and even before that (which led to the UIF teams defecting). The Intense teams did the right thing in departing after that season, they really had no choice. There was some good in the NIFL in 2005 though, but not enough to make up for the bad.

[BananaCat]

Wohoo, My name is still be tossed around in a positive light.. Guess i will leave my phone on an wait for this call.. Thanks for the heads up dan
Congratulations.

[sportznut]

Congratulations.

Thank you.. But i am still trying to figure out what for.. I have been congratulated for being dir of Ops in LSFL and i have also gotten IM's congratulating me for my role in the PIFL.... Seriously going to levae my phone on now!!

[exit322]

Things weren't necessarily bad in the NIFL in 2004 - the defection was more a preemptive strike, as Shiver without her sister was probably going to give them trouble.

Given what happened after they left, they were right.

[BananaCat]

Things weren't necessarily bad in the NIFL in 2004 - the defection was more a preemptive strike, as Shiver without her sister was probably going to give them trouble.

Given what happened after they left, they were right.
Things weren't good enough though, they almost left in 2004.

The NIFL could've been something (then again maybe not), but it just shows what bad leadership at the league level can do.

[Trish_lvs_Baltimore]

West Texas yes, Allen a clear unknownYeah, i'm sure Allen is probably a sure no.

Their proximity to the Frisco Falcons would be a huge problem for the Allen Wranglers. Frisco & Allen are so close that they're in the same county (Collin County, Texas). The Dallas Metro can't possibly have that many indoor football fans to go around...