Is The CIFL Dead?

[jerry101jlh]

Got this press release. One thing in it about Bloomington, sources tell me they are not moving to this new league.

PRESS RELEASE

For Immediate Release
June 30, 2011
For Further Information, Contact:
David Seiter, President
Stadius Football Association
(317) 842-8283

MIDWEST OWNERS CONSTRUCT NEW ARENA FOOTBALL LEAGUE

INDIANAPOLIS - Several indoor football team owners in the Midwest have banded together to create a new arena football league, according to a press release issued today. The Stadius Football Association (“SFA”), headquartered in Indianapolis, IN has named Indianapolis sports attorney, David Seiter, as its inaugural president.

“Arena football fans love this sport’s fast paced scoring and hard hitting tackles. We believe fans will enjoy the highly competitive product that we will be bringing to their respective cities.” Seiter stated. “The key to the SFA’s success will be operating under a unique cost-effective business model and that will provide quality family-friendly football entertainment at affordable costs for fans,” Seiter said.

The league will be owned by the team owners who will be vested in the viability and success of the whole. “The reason that our business model will be successful is that the owners will not only own their teams, but the league itself”, stated Seiter. “The owners will manage the business affairs of the SFA and the owners will work together to secure products and services in volume, thus driving down the operating costs of the league and their teams”, he added. “A league should exist to help owners maintain profits; not the other way around. Consequently, membership fees to join the league have been reduced and are more reasonable, and net operating costs will be cut. This adjustment in priorities is why the SFA will survive compared to business models in competing leagues.”

The SFA has also assured that travel costs won’t be significant to owners because all of its teams will be in fairly close proximity. Seiter has targeted cities in Michigan, Indiana, Illinois, Ohio, Kentucky, and West Virginia. The SFA has already received interest from several teams that are intending to join the new league, including the Fort Wayne FireHawks, Dayton Silverbacks, Cincinnati Commandos, Northern Kentucky River Monsters, and Marion Blue Racers (OH). The SFA is accepting applications from other team owners and believes the inaugural season will consist of 10-16 Midwestern teams. “We have a strong potential core of initial team members, and there seems to be a lot of enthusiasm for building this league,” said Seiter. Creating local rivalries will intensify the fans’ interest in the game and allow fans to travel with their teams to opposing arenas. Seiter hopes to have additional teams in Bloomington (IL), Corbin (KY), Erie (PA), Louisville (KY), Kalamazoo (MI), Lansing (MI), Chicago (IL), Peoria (IL), Rockford (IL), Huntington (WV) , Toledo (OH) and/or Canton (OH) in time for the 2012 season. The league begins in February, 2012 and run through the end of May culminating with a Championship game in June. The league could quickly expand but intends to focus on the loyal Midwest fanbase.

Seiter, an Indianapolis attorney, will not operate a team in the league initially so that he can focus his efforts on securing league-wide sponsorships but he doesn’t disguise his desire to start a team in his home city. “The city of Indianapolis enthusiastically backed the Indianapolis Firebirds from 2001-2004 averaging more than 10,000 fans per game; arena football will be returning to this city soon” Seiter hinted.

Northern Kentucky River Monsters owner Jill Chitwood expressed her excitement for the new league, “The fans are looking forward to competitive games, natural rivalries, and exciting play. Several team owners are excited about what this new league will mean to their respective arena football fans and expect the fans will be pleased about this development. I think they’re right.”.

Seiter indicated that the first meeting of the league and team owners would occur prior to July 31, 2011. Schedules for the SFA teams will be released this fall.

[gatek99]

why would they put a team in Huntington, WV when the UIFL owner owns the team there. Two teams in Huntington? Canton is also a UIFL team, will they jump out of the UIFL? This is a confusing article!

[jerry101jlh]

why would they put a team in Huntington, WV when the UIFL owner owns the team there. Two teams in Huntington? Canton is also a UIFL team, will they jump out of the UIFL? This is a confusing article!

Another disaster in the making

[gatek99]

Another disaster in the making

you think they just listed a bunch of cities in hope that the teams would want to leave their leagues?

So there is going to be this new league and the new AIFA hmm. Anyone find any more news on expansion teams for next season?

[DFWCC]

For the good of the sport there needs to be some stability
in the leagues. An effort has to be made to get rid of these
shyster league owners who start new leagues every 2 or 3 yrs
once they've raped local fans and teams.

I must add that I hope Erie takes a good look at the SFA
if only to get out of the SIFL.

[monstermania]

I think this league with the Monsters,Commandos,Marion,Erie etc... is a great idea!!! Most of the teams mentioned are established fairly well run teams. I think this is a great idea as long as Mr.Haines isnt involved.

[IndoorDan]

The press release offers no new insights or reasons why this league would be successful. Every new league says the same thing. "A new business model, lower travel costs, etc."

And any indoor football person who's in leadership knows the peril of referring to indoor football as Arena Football. We all know there is a distinct difference in rules, style of play and branding.

Other than the press release Jerry posted, only WANE-TV (Fort Wayne, Indiana) has done anything with this. It appears to have been released in the late afternoon. Plenty of time for any self-respecting media outlet to post it, verbatim.

Why has no one else posted it? A limited media distribution list? No interest by the media. A "lead-balloon" to see how the public receives it before going forward or just a poorly timed announcement with even little due-diligence.

I did dig up a little background on the illustrious David Seiter and the various endeavors he's involved with.

Just going by his websites, which look like a junior high kid designed, if the Stadius (Crater) Football Association even sees the light of day, it looks to be a poor man's version of the CIFL.

He's an agent (allegedly) which has a conflict of interest with dealing with players, does it not. He's an attorney, he's a military JAG... he needs a few more things to do.

http://www.trifektaracing.com/welcome.html

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Trifekta-Sports-Management/201376903220589?v=info#info_edit_sections

http://www.garrisonlegal.com/lawyers.php

[IndoorDan]

One more thing... why would teams in other leagues (CIFL, UIFL, IFL) publicly want their names listed in a press release until this was a done deal.

Just seems very, very, very bad business... but what do I know.

[jerry101jlh]

This has not been the best of seasons for the sport, most of the problems coming out of the SIFL. Those problems alone may show at least two new leagues, a Texas league and resurfacing of the Morris led AIFA, plus maybe a restructured SIFL. It appeared maybe the UIFL was on somewhat solid footing until it was sold to someone we now have no clue on how things might be run. One person with in one of the leagues told me yesterday the sport doesn't need another black eye and I agree, but I see potentially more than just a black eye of the horizon. This new SFA looks poorly set up and I don't see any teams involved with deep pockets. I see the new AIFA facing disaster as I'm sure the failed Morris model will not have changed. I see the UIFL facing possible headaches with too rapid of expansion and now under new unknown leadership. I see any restructured SIFL as being led by the same people who have led it to be the mess it is now even though some better SIFL owners say they are going to get more involved to right that ship. Gone it appears is the CIFL which has been one of the more stable leagues even though was a revolving door year to year on teams coming and going. Any Dittman led Texas league most likely won't have many issues providing he can keep all the teams they field alive. The old Intense League was pretty stable and more or less Dittman controlled. The IFL will be affected by any fly by night new leagues without question. These type of leagues make it harder for all to grow and improve credibility. Just my opinion on the state of things.

[IndoorDan]

I just wonder if this press release is something more strategic. Something designed to lure investors into helping a team. The timing just seems off and amateur.

[monstermania]

I just wonder if this press release is something more strategic. Something designed to lure investors into helping a team. The timing just seems off and amateur.

I believe by reading the press release that they have commitments from Cincy,NKY,Marion,Dayton and Fort Wayne. Looks like teams like Erie are very interested and that the other teams are maybe a disscussion of where the league might like to go. I like the league being owned by the teams, it eliminates the snakes like Haines tearing a league a part. We will just have to wait and see.

[gatek99]

I believe by reading the press release that they have commitments from Cincy,NKY,Marion,Dayton and Fort Wayne. Looks like teams like Erie are very interested and that the other teams are maybe a disscussion of where the league might like to go. I like the league being owned by the teams, it eliminates the snakes like Haines tearing a league a part. We will just have to wait and see.

YEAH BUT WHY WOULD THE OWNER OF HUNTINGTON WANT TO SWITCH LEAGUES, WHEN HE ALSO OWNS THE UIFL?

sorry about caps lock I am at work!

[Commando678]

I don't think people in the COmmandos Orginization even know what the SFA even is.

[jerry101jlh]

I have heard whoever is behind this league has been going around trying to recruit teams that are currently under contract with other leagues. And yes I have a name, but am awaiting confirmation of who this man is and his involvement with the sport.

[jerry101jlh]

All that I know. Sources tell me that a man named John Mize is behind this SFA. Also told he was part of the Cincinnati Marshals organization of the old NIFL. Being involved at the NIFL league level at that time I do not remember his name, but was some time ago. My sources also said he is like Jim Terry. If true, teams should be getting out of the way quick and looking for other options.

[SugarBear]

Is this the same John Mize from the Saginaw Sting? Their former head coach.

http://www.mlive.com/sports/saginaw/index.ssf/2011/03/saginaw_sting_dismiss_head_coa.html


Personally, this league already has the making of yet another indoor football fiasco.

[IndoorDan]

Maybe it should just be the Stadius Fiasco Association.

[IndoorDan]

Has any other media, besides Fort Wayne, picked up on it.

[jerry101jlh]

Has any other media, besides Fort Wayne, picked up on it.

So far I've seen nothing else come over the wire. Funny I mention some names, like Gary Tufford or Tommy Benizio and get little email from others on what I say, but I'm getting stuff from all over on this guy and none of it good.

[IndoorDan]

This has been posted on wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stadius_Football_Association

www.stadiusfootball.com

http://www.networksolutions.com/whois-search/stadiusfootball.com

[jerry101jlh]

This has been posted on wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stadius_Football_Association

www.stadiusfootball.com

http://www.networksolutions.com/whois-search/stadiusfootball.com

Well that told me a whole lot of nothing lol But in reality I'm doubting much to tell or that could be believed

[preeths]

According to GM Jason Buckley, the Cincinnati Commandos have not joined the SFA. They have not made a league commitment for 2012.

[The TRUTH]

Is this the same John Mize from the Saginaw Sting? Their former head coach.

http://www.mlive.com/sports/saginaw/index.ssf/2011/03/saginaw_sting_dismiss_head_coa.html


Personally, this league already has the making of yet another indoor football fiasco.

Sugarbear,

FYI - John Mize is the person most responsible for assisting Tommie Benezio merge the Intense, United and CIFL teams in it's inaugural season. Having been in Chicago during the formation, he helped lure Muskegon, Saginaw, Lehigh, Rochester, Maryland then ultimately Green Bay, LaCrosse, Reading and Chicago into the new Indoor Football League.

In the end, Benezio screwed Paul Aaron out of the Commissioner position and they both make a pretty penny on franchise fees while screwing Mize out of his promised commissions. In defense of John, when he arrived in Saginaw this season, Saginaw was already a mess.

And that's the Truth.

[jerry101jlh]

Sugarbear,

FYI - John Mize is the person most responsible for assisting Tommie Benezio merge the Intense, United and CIFL teams in it's inaugural season. Having been in Chicago during the formation, he helped lure Muskegon, Saginaw, Lehigh, Rochester, Maryland then ultimately Green Bay, LaCrosse, Reading and Chicago into the new Indoor Football League.

In the end, Benezio screwed Paul Aaron out of the Commissioner position and they both make a pretty penny on franchise fees while screwing Mize out of his promised commissions. In defense of John, when he arrived in Saginaw this season, Saginaw was already a mess.

And that's the Truth.

I heard Mize was asked to leave or was kicked out of those meetings? So what is the truth?

[The TRUTH]

I heard Mize was asked to leave or was kicked out of those meetings? So what is the truth?

The truth is that John was welcome to do all the dirty work and get people and teams to the meetings in Omaha. At the meeting, he was asked to stay out "when they were "owners only", some meetings were also "exec committee only" and "old UIF business only", so they could set different LOC limits for old teams vs new teams.

So, that would be a half truth.

[preeths]

Directly from the team, Marion has not committed to the new league, either. From a second-hand source, neither has Dayton.

[jerry101jlh]

The truth is that John was welcome to do all the dirty work and get people and teams to the meetings in Omaha. At the meeting, he was asked to stay out "when they were "owners only", some meetings were also "exec committee only" and "old UIF business only", so they could set different LOC limits for old teams vs new teams.

So, that would be a half truth.

Is Maze behind or involved with this new league or his involvement just fiction?

[newiflfan]

According to GM Jason Buckley, the Cincinnati Commandos have not joined the SFA. They have not made a league commitment for 2012.

Directly from the team, Marion has not committed to the new league, either. From a second-hand source, neither has Dayton.

This has the makings to get interesting...

Will be curious to see if there's some noise in Grand Rapids over the next couple of months, too.

[nksports]

Is the CIFL truly dead?
This kind of sums up the recent history of the CIFL:
"The Dead Body That Claims It Isn't: I'm not dead.
The Dead Collector: What?
Large Man with Dead Body: Nothing. There's your ninepence.
The Dead Body That Claims It Isn't: I'm not dead.
The Dead Collector: 'Ere, he says he's not dead.
Large Man with Dead Body: Yes he is.
The Dead Body That Claims It Isn't: I'm not.
The Dead Collector: He isn't.
Large Man with Dead Body: Well, he will be soon, he's very ill.
The Dead Body That Claims It Isn't: I'm getting better.
Large Man with Dead Body: No you're not, you'll be stone dead in a moment."

[jerry101jlh]

It appears what we have here is a whole lot of nothing based on the facts. Possibly only two teams listed, defunct Ft Wayne and Northern Ky are a part of this so called SFA as others listed have said they are not committed to it. There is no credible information anywhere that says the CIFL will not return in 2012, nor any information that says the SFA is anymore than just a press release that was only picked up in one city, Fort Wayne. If this league is real their start would make one think its just another junk league operated by those who don't have a clue on how to start and most likely even run a league.

[IndoorDan]

Me thinks there is someone in Fort Wayne, i.e. Mike Loomis, who has a vested interest in the perception of a new league.

Here's what we know:

Exhibit A. The team, the Fort Wayne Firehawks did not play in 2011 - making its value next to zero.

Exhibit B. Loomis, like any business person, wants to recoup something from his ownership, albeit a court-awarded one.

We can conclude, an inactive team, an inactive league would mean even less of a chance to sell the team.

Exhibit C. Only Fort Wayne media have picked up this story, no other markets, including those with alleged SPA members to-be.

Exhibit D. Loomis has attempted to use the media to sway public opinion. In the 2010 season, he signed an deal agreeing to play in the CIFL for two seasons. No successful teams sign deals in season, let alone issue press releases on such matters. I am sure the CIFL doesn't have two-year deals. It was clearly a publicity stunt.


Exhibit F. Loomis has used press releases and Wikipedia to announce and provide information the team was for sale. A search of the Fort Wayne Firehawks's wikipedia article in June and July of 2010 shows numerous edits by Loomis.

Including a June 30, 2010 revision which spoke glowingly of the teams reorganization directed by Loomis.

Sure seems that Fort Wayne is the focus of this poorly executed effort.

[The TRUTH]

Is Maze behind or involved with this new league or his involvement just fiction?

Not fiction, Mize is helping out by making contact with potential teams.
He has been arond indoor and arean football for many years and knows everyone. That said, everyone should know him as well, so finding any info you desire and his background should not be very hard.

His deal is to be a head coach in Indiana.

[The TRUTH]

Me thinks there is someone in Fort Wayne, i.e. Mike Loomis, who has a vested interest in the perception of a new league.

Here's what we know:

Exhibit A. The team, the Fort Wayne Firehawks did not play in 2011 - making its value next to zero.

Exhibit B. Loomis, like any business person, wants to recoup something from his ownership, albeit a court-awarded one.

We can conclude, an inactive team, an inactive league would mean even less of a chance to sell the team.

Exhibit C. Only Fort Wayne media have picked up this story, no other markets, including those with alleged SPA members to-be.

Exhibit D. Loomis has attempted to use the media to sway public opinion. In the 2010 season, he signed an deal agreeing to play in the CIFL for two seasons. No successful teams sign deals in season, let only issue press releases on such matters. I am sure the CIFL doesn't have two-year deals. It was clearly a publicity stunt.

Exhibit F. Loomis has used press releases and Wikipedia to announce and provide information the team was for sale. A search of the Fort Wayne Firehawks's wikipedia article in June and July of 2010 shows numerous edits by Loomis.

Including a June 30, 2010 revision which spoke glowingly of the teams reorganization directed by Loomis.

Sure seems that Fort Wayne is the focus of this poorly executed effort.


Hey Dan, nice shot.
Are you a sharpshooter by any chance?

[The TRUTH]

With all this premature talk of Death to the CIFL, where is Jeff Spitaleri?
Jeff has always been active on these boards and available to fans.

I would hope that all is well with JS and hope he comes on here to defend the CIFL, which I believe is the longest running active indoor league?

Maybe defend is not the right word - how about clarify or discredit the rumors?

I still love you man.

[IndoorDan]

Not fiction, Mize is helping out by making contact

His deal is to be a head coach in Indiana.

Assuming that Loomis gets someone to buy his lead zepplin called the Firehawks or can get the team out of the ashes with mirrors, trades and no money invested.

Just saying.

[jerry101jlh]

Not fiction, Mize is helping out by making contact with potential teams.
He has been arond indoor and arean football for many years and knows everyone. That said, everyone should know him as well, so finding any info you desire and his background should not be very hard.

His deal is to be a head coach in Indiana.

Didn't need to ask to know that, but didn't know he was to get a head coaching deal out of things, especially in a yet to be announced Indy team. And no, not everyone that has been around this sport knows him and/or you and some who do may not have the highest opinion of him and/or you along with others rumored to be involved in this poorly planned league. And yes, poorly planned as evidenced by now, only two of the so called targeted markets picking up on the press release.

I guess also says a lot about Mize if he has to strike a deal on helping this start up to get a coaching job. If he was more qualified and had a better record as a coach certainly wouldn't have to do this, teams would be coming to him.

This is all not just the truth, but fact.

[IndoorDan]

Good coaches are always involved in grabbing up teams for new leagues. That's the type of coach I'd want calling my X's and O's. (Tongue firmly in cheek)

[IndoorDan]

Jerry,

I am guessing the only other media outlet to post this is in Northern Kentucky. Seems that's the only other franchise with a vested interest in joining the league.

That is, they have no league presently after being booted by the UIFL.

Oh, no one has asked the question, at least on here. Why would Cincinnati and Northern Kentucky be in the same league, in the same market. That jus doesn't make sense. The value of a franchise is having rights to a specified market.

Highland Heights is just across the Ohio River from Cincinnati.

[The TRUTH]

Didn't need to ask to know that, but didn't know he was to get a head coaching deal out of things, especially in a yet to be announced Indy team. And no, not everyone that has been around this sport knows him and/or you and some who do may not have the highest opinion of him and/or you along with others rumored to be involved in this poorly planned league. And yes, poorly planned as evidenced by now, only two of the so called targeted markets picking up on the press release.

I guess also says a lot about Mize if he has to strike a deal on helping this start up to get a coaching job. If he was more qualified and had a better record as a coach certainly wouldn't have to do this, teams would be coming to him.

This is all not just the truth, but fact.

None of this has anything to do with me and since you do not know me, I would appreciate your refrain from accusations. I was simply offering information I have heard to answer other fans questions. As of now, I am a fan of indoor football, nothing more nothing less. Should that change anytime in the future (*and I doubt it will) I will be sure to let you know.

As for opinons about me, remember I know the TRUTH, nothing else matters. If you should have a question, please ask. I have always been an open book -never hid from anyone or anything. Let's me sleep well at night.

And that's the TRUTH.

[jerry101jlh]

Jerry,

I am guessing the only other media outlet to post this is in Northern Kentucky. Seems that's the only other franchise with a vested interest in joining the league.

That is, they have no league presently after being booted by the UIFL.

Oh, no one has asked the question, at least on here. Why would Cincinnati and Northern Kentucky be in the same league, in the same market. That jus doesn't make sense. The value of a franchise is having rights to a specified market.

Highland Heights is just across the Ohio River from Cincinnati.

An article out of Erie today, did roughly quote the release along with comments from Erie management.

Also might add that anyone interested in buying the Firehawks would be wise to check with the venue first as I understand thev 'Hawks may not be first in line to get a lease, hear maybe one other interested has a better rep with the venue, but tis a rumor.

[jerry101jlh]

None of this has anything to do with me and since you do not know me, I would appreciate your refrain from accusations. I was simply offering information I have heard to answer other fans questions. As of now, I am a fan of indoor football, nothing more nothing less. Should that change anytime in the future (*and I doubt it will) I will be sure to let you know.

As for opinons about me, remember I know the TRUTH, nothing else matters. If you should have a question, please ask. I have always been an open book -never hid from anyone or anything. Let's me sleep well at night.

And that's the TRUTH.

Where did I accuse you of anything?

[DFWCC]

From Indoor Dan

"Exhibit C. Only Fort Wayne media have picked up this story, no other markets, including those with alleged SPA members to-be. "

From the Erie Times-News
Published: July 2, 2011 1:18 AM EST
Updated: July 2, 2011 3:40 AM EST
Another indoor football league shows interest in Erie
By AARON McKRELL, Erie Times-News
aaron.mckrell@timesnews.com

The president of a newly formed indoor football league said he hopes to have a team in Erie for the inaugural 2012 season.
That's news to Erie Explosion co-owner Bill Stafford.
"I have not heard anything yet (in the way of expansion into Erie)," Stafford said Friday after hearing for the first time of the Stadius Football Association.
The Indianapolis-based league issued a news release Friday morning indicating as many as five existing teams have shown interest in joining, and that the SFA has targeted as many as 11 other markets for teams before the season-opening games in February.
Stafford said that the offseason always is a time when indoor teams weigh their options for league membership.
Erie for the past year has been a member of the Southern Indoor Football League, which features teams from Texas to Florida but only three in the north -- Erie, Harrisburg and Trenton, N.J.
Stafford said that, while he has not been contacted by the SFA, other leagues have approached the Explosion. He said the franchise is waiting to hear back from those leagues regarding a possible deal.
"The best way to describe (the Explosion) is as a free agent," Stafford said.
David Seiter, a lawyer, sports agent and president of the SFA, said expansion into Erie would make sense for his league, which wants its teams to be relatively closely spaced throughout the Midwest.
"We believe the fans in Erie appreciate having an arena team in that market," Seiter said.
The news release indicated that the SFA is envisioned as a 10-team to 16-team league jointly owned by its teams. The news release said existing teams that have shown interest are the Fort Wayne FireHawks, Dayton Silverbacks, Cincinnati Commandos, Northern Kentucky River Monsters and Marion (Ohio) Blue Racers.
Seiter said he also hopes to have teams in Erie; Chicago, Rockford, Peoria and Bloomington, Ill.; Louisville and Corbin, Ky.; Kalamazoo and Lansing, Mich; Huntington, W.Va.; and one or both among Toledo and Canton, Ohio


Sounds a whole lot of "Putin' the cart before the horse" by the SFA.

[IndoorDan]

Thanks for the update. Still two days after the first press release and some GOOD reporting and not taking a press release word-for-word.

[jerry101jlh]

This is my take for what its worth. Jim Terry, John Morris and even the current Bondo/Tufford clam did a better job in disguising and misleading the fan than the SFA has done so far. Here a team, there a team, according to the SFA, yet only one, Fort Wayne, seems to have any knowledge about this league intent to gobble up their market.

[The TRUTH]

From Indoor Dan

"The president of a newly formed indoor football league said he hopes to have a team in Erie for the inaugural 2012 season. .

With Seiter being an attorney, this seems to be carefully worded and honest. "hopes" being the key word here. Also, I am sure that there had to be some communication with Erie and they did just just pull this out of his arse. As they say where there is smoke, there is usually fire.

That's news to Erie Explosion co-owner Bill Stafford. "I have not heard anything yet (in the way of expansion into Erie)," Stafford said Friday after hearing for the first time of the Stadius Football Association.

Again, a carefully worded response. Do not believe this to be 100% truthful. Maybe he did not speak directly to SFA people but I would bet someone in his organization has. Afterall, they are "free agents".

[COLOR="red"]Stafford said that, while he has not been contacted by the SFA, other leagues have approached the Explosion. David Seiter, a lawyer, sports agent and president of the SFA, said expansion into Erie would make sense for his league, which wants its teams to be relatively closely spaced throughout the Midwest. .

Again, a carefully worded response. Seems he wants the word out but does not want to commit until he gets his best deal. Very smart.


Sounds a whole lot of "Putin' the cart before the horse" by the SFA.

Nah, sounds like SOP for indoor football. A press release but not a very good one. Communication, but not very clear communication. Back door promises and deals, but no back door promises or deals. Yup, indoor football.

And that's the TRUTH.

[The TRUTH]

This is my take for what its worth. Jim Terry, John Morris and even the current Bondo/Tufford clam did a better job in disguising and misleading the fan than the SFA has done so far. Here a team, there a team, according to the SFA, yet only one, Fort Wayne, seems to have any knowledge about this league intent to gobble up their market.

Sorry Jerry,

But there is one very BIG difference, so far. And this is not to defend a newly formed league that has not started, may not get started and probably does not have any teams under contract to date - but, at least they have yet to "take money from anyone" or "rip anyone off" or "spew flat out lies". At least as far as we know.

That alone separates them from all the others (with NO EXCEPTIONS including your beloved TB).

[LewInDenver]

This is like a bunch of toothpicks getting together and deciding to become a house! More corruption coming down the pike to soil the sport we all love. Do any of the people who own/buy these franchises do Due Diligence? If I was Erie, the IFL is the only way I would go. Same for WKY or Cincinnati, who ever is stronger financially. How can the fans know so much about the sport and owners, but everybody turns a blind eye at the team and league level? WTF is Bloomingtons name doing in their? This has ALL the makings of the final season of the NIFL, many markets still feel burned by those over-night scam artists. Any time you are mentioned in the same breath as Jim Terry, BAD things are on the horizon.

[IndoorDan]

[QUOTE=LewInDenver;155332]This is like a bunch of toothpicks getting together and deciding to become a house! QUOTE]

Great quote. I love it.

I think better stated, its a group of toothpicks, hoping someone sees this and decides "I want to invest into making this a house." When the toothpicks only know shacks.

[jerry101jlh]

Sorry Jerry,

But there is one very BIG difference, so far. And this is not to defend a newly formed league that has not started, may not get started and probably does not have any teams under contract to date - but, at least they have yet to "take money from anyone" or "rip anyone off" or "spew flat out lies". At least as far as we know.

That alone separates them from all the others (with NO EXCEPTIONS including your beloved TB).

For not involved seem tio know a lot and not defending I think might be up to those reading whether or not you are defending this new house wanting to be built out of toothpicks. Nice one Lew!

[exit322]

This is going to be a fun offseason.

[preeths]

This is like a bunch of toothpicks getting together and deciding to become a house!
Can you make a house out of uncommitted toothpicks!? This is indoor football; we're bound to find out.

[Bruiser]

This is going to be a fun offseason.
The off-seasons are the best part of this "sport"... the games not so much. I get jacked more over local H.S. games. But one is GUARANTEED all the drama of soap opera style backstabbing and the screwin over of ur fellow man in the 50 yd football off-seasons. And THAT'S the truth! 8)

[IndoorDan]

Maybe the best thing that could happen is A FIRE!

Burn up all the deadwood, clean up all the jokers and goofballs and give someone a fresh start. Somethings are so messed up, best to start all over.

If this thing really does do go, these franchises will be nothing but embarrassments I fear. You'd have better chances buying lottery tickets then with this league.

[preeths]

This message is in the meta tags of http://www.fortwaynefirehawks.com:

FOR SALE – Arena football team in great Midwest America sports town! The Fort Wayne FireHawks team is priced to sell: $120,000. This business will be profitable if properly managed, and is poised to go to the next level.
Three strong potential revenue streams exist in paid attendance, advertising sponsorships, and merchandising. Venue for games is Allen County War Memorial Coliseum www.memorialcoliseum.com, the best in the nation, with seating capacity at 10,502 fans.
Team has following with loyal fan base, good season ticket list, and excellent community support. Owner desires to focus on law practice but will assist in transaction, along with transition to new ownership.
Call Mike Loomis at (260) 436-7320, but serious inquiries only, please.

[IndoorDan]

Good support apparently is 1,971 per game*.


1971 fans @$10 ticket for 5 games = $98,550

20 players @ $200 a game for nine games played in 2010 = $40,000

5 games of rent @$1000 = $5,000

Insurance - ???

Staff -???

League dues - $1000 a month for 12 months = $12,000

Travel - $1000 a trip for bus = $5,000

Meals - on the road $500 a game x 5 = 2500

Promotion, printing - ????

Of course doesn't count trades, advertising revenue, etc. I can't imagine the team generated more than 25K in actual cash-paying sponsorship.

But the margain is very very very tight. Not real attractive for an investor wanting to keep out of the red.

*2010 CIFL stats - http://www.ciflfootball.com/livestats/season/2010/FW.HTM

[The TRUTH]

This message is in the meta tags of http://www.fortwaynefirehawks.com:

Starting a new league but have your own team for sale?Odd, not so much.
Sounds familiar, just like very other league that has ever existed. Let's see:
Spitaleri in Marion
Haines in, well every market...
Morris in, well every market also
Bondo in Fayetteville and Trenton (FYI rumor is Trenton was sold yesterday -(anyone have info to add?)
Benezio in Odessa, then Richmond

Add to that Reading is for sale, Wilkes Barre, Harrisburg, UIFL lists about 10 locations for sale, the list goes on and on ...wait a minute EVERY indoor franchise is for sale - just a matter of finding the right sucker, err buyer, wait I was right the first time.

Enough of this computer stuff for now, next 3 days are for family; nothing else really matters.

And that's the TRUTH.

[IndoorDan]

Starting a new league but have your own team for sale?Odd, not so much.
Sounds familiar, just like very other league that has ever existed. Let's see:
Spitaleri in Marion
Haines in, well every market...
Morris in, well every market also
Bondo in Fayetteville and Trenton (FYI rumor is Trenton was sold yesterday -(anyone have info to add?)
Benezio in Odessa, then Richmond

Add to that Reading is for sale, Wilkes Barre, Harrisburg, UIFL lists about 10 locations for sale, the list goes on and on ...wait a minute EVERY indoor franchise is for sale - just a matter of finding the right sucker, err buyer, wait I was right the first time.

Enough of this computer stuff for now, next 3 days are for family; nothing else really matters.

And that's the TRUTH.

I could be wrong but those aren't in-active teams like the Firehawks. These teams listed are still taking snaps and have a viable product, not a perception of a franchise.

[The TRUTH]

Good support apparently is 1,971 per game*. Most models show 2500 min to break-even - just an industry avg, varies town to town but is usullay close in small markets

1971 fans @$10 ticket for 5 games = $98,550
1971 PAID fans means you need 2500 in the building

20 players @ $200 a game for nine games played in 2010 = $40,000 Plus taxes & insurances, cannot be competitive at $200 x 20
try 300 x 25 as a min or $75k


5 games of rent @$1000 = $5,000
Or maybe 7 games at $5k is more realistic at $35k

Insurance - ??? Over rated - who needs it?

Staff -??? All volunteers or promise and just don't pay $0
[/QUOTE]

League dues - $1000 a month for 12 months = $12,000
Pay first 4 months then just stop paying. $4000

Travel - $1000 a trip for bus = $5,000 with gas at 4 bucks a gallon, wont pull a real bus off the lot for under 2500 x 6 = $15k [/QUOTE]


Meals - on the road $500 a game x 5 = 2500

Promotion, printing - ????


Total it up and you will see that without 2500 fans (2000 paid) and $150k in CASH sponsors - any owner will simply bleed money.
And that is Indoor Football 101 in small markets, the numbers just get worse for larger markets.

Great sport, bad investment.

And, back to the purpose of this thread titled "CIFL is Dead?" I doubt it - but it would be nice to hear something from Jeff halting the funeral.

[nksports]

Travel - $1000 a trip for bus = $5,000
Talking with someone I know connected with a local NAIA college football team, they chartered buses (2 per trip) for around $3,500 a day, and their longest road trips (until they have a couple of woppers this season), were about 240 miles round trip.

[IndoorDan]

The numbers weren't meant to be anything but the best case, with the lowest estimates for argument sake.

But, this confirms just how pie in the sky it is to stay in the black.

[newiflfan]

This message is in the meta tags of http://www.fortwaynefirehawks.com:


That text seems much like the text they were actually showing last offseason, while still thinking/hoping they'd be able to find a buyer for the team.

[jerry101jlh]

Starting a new league but have your own team for sale?Odd, not so much.
Sounds familiar, just like very other league that has ever existed. Let's see:
Spitaleri in Marion
Haines in, well every market...
Morris in, well every market also
Bondo in Fayetteville and Trenton (FYI rumor is Trenton was sold yesterday -(anyone have info to add?)
Benezio in Odessa, then Richmond

Add to that Reading is for sale, Wilkes Barre, Harrisburg, UIFL lists about 10 locations for sale, the list goes on and on ...wait a minute EVERY indoor franchise is for sale - just a matter of finding the right sucker, err buyer, wait I was right the first time.

Enough of this computer stuff for now, next 3 days are for family; nothing else really matters.

And that's the TRUTH.

Look at who you are using as examples, exactly the same most of us are using as the how poorly this league is being put together. Good examples you have out there nly makes our point for us. Thank you.

[jerry101jlh]

One has to wonder if this SFA really is anything more than just talk or a group of wannabe's with no clue on reality. As we hear of teams they have selected as targets saying who or haven't even been approached and no wide circulation of this poorly conceived press release yes, we have to wonder. Now as we sit and watch these SFA target markets announce their plans for 2012 and the SFA not where they choose it will become clear this league no more than talk. First up on their list to announce a new league affiliation today or so I'm told and they aren't going to this SFA.

[DFWCC]

First up on their list to announce a new league affiliation today or so I'm told and they aren't going to this SFA.

J101,
Who's making the announcement?

[DCAbloob]

J101,
Who's making the announcement?

OSC: Marion Blue Racers Join Uifl (http://www.oursportscentral.com/services/releases/?id=4241761)

[exit322]

Without any regard to league strength or anything of that sort - the UIFL rule set may not play real well in Marion, with a narrower field and 5ish yard end zones.

As to stay on topic - this isn't a good sign for the CIFL.

[gatek99]

OSC: Marion Blue Racers Join Uifl (http://www.oursportscentral.com/services/releases/?id=4241761)

interesting, how many more existing teams in these regions joins the UIFL?

[preeths]

I spoke with Mr. Seiter today and wanted to share some of what he had to say:

- The purpose of the SFA's press release was to let teams know that another option existed for them, particularly teams listed in the markets toward the end of the release. The SFA wants to provide a cost-effective alternative to the other leagues, with low travel budgets a major focus.

- Fort Wayne owner Mike Loomis has been the driving force behind the league and asked Mr. Seiter to become commissioner of the SFA. Seiter said he would not be a puppet for any owner and would not draw a salary for his SFA work.

- At this point, Fort Wayne is the only team committed to the league. Northern Kentucky and several others are still looking over the business plan, and Seiter expects more commitments at an upcoming prospective owners meeting. The SFA was careful in saying only that the teams listed in its press release had expressed interest.

- Apparently Marion didn't inform Seiter or the SFA of its decision to go to the UIFL.

[jerry101jlh]

Appreciate the update Paul. Established teams may opt for more proven entities than what the SFA has or has yet to prove. So far I still see nothing from the SFA but talk of better, no real plan.

[gatek99]

Appreciate the update Paul. Established teams may opt for more proven entities than what the SFA has or has yet to prove. So far I still see nothing from the SFA but talk of better, no real plan.

do you guys think there will be a bunch of new expansion teams playing in 2012?

[jerry101jlh]

do you guys think there will be a bunch of new expansion teams playing in 2012?

As many as 10-12 my guess with most being in the new southern division of the UIFL. the SIFL and/or new AIFA most likely will have to invent some new teams to even forge a league. IFL most likely will add three or four

[DFWCC]

New teams coming in
E 38th Street Pine Ave Boys
E 71st Wattsburgers
E 19th st Railroadies
and the North Brazil Gouchos
There is also interest from
Poungyang Ponies... N korea's best.
THE M... assures me he has cks in hand.
To be drawn on the Malaysian Rubber bank.
Honest :) :)

[Trish_lvs_Baltimore]

If Cincinnati, Marion, Dayton, Indianapolos, and Chicago were smart, they would join the UIFL. Geographically, it would definitely make sense. With the IFL's jaw-dropping price to join, i see why the Commandos didn't join.

I see the UIFL as one of the premier leagues in the near future, everyone.

I wish the N.Kentucky RiverMonsters didn't do the silly @&$% that landed them in trouble. I would've loved to see a N.Kentucky/Cincinnati rivalry!!

[wasteland]

Chicago is dead.

[gatek99]

If Cincinnati, Marion, Dayton, Indianapolos, and Chicago were smart, they would join the UIFL. Geographically, it would definitely make sense. With the IFL's jaw-dropping price to join, i see why the Commandos didn't join.

I see the UIFL as one of the premier leagues in the near future, everyone.

I wish the N.Kentucky RiverMonsters didn't do the silly @&$% that landed them in trouble. I would've loved to see a N.Kentucky/Cincinnati rivalry!!

what is the jaw dropping price compared to the UIFL

[Tommy T]

I think this league with the Monsters,Commandos,Marion,Erie etc... is a great idea!!! Most of the teams mentioned are established fairly well run teams. I think this is a great idea as long as Mr.Haines isnt involved.

WOW, thank you for noticing that the CIFL has produced, and continues to produce strong, competitive, and stable teams. Yet these same teams try to "BE BETTER" and move on to a league that equates to a million miles of travel and expenses. One or two years later, they are looking for a new league to play in. The CIFL is changing in some directions for the better of the "League" and some teams that have jumped ship may want to recapitulate their thoughts. Some of the ideas mentioned by the owners will come to fruition. :)

[jerry101jlh]

WOW, thank you for noticing that the CIFL has produced, and continues to produce strong, competitive, and stable teams. Yet these same teams try to "BE BETTER" and move on to a league that equates to a million miles of travel and expenses. One or two years later, they are looking for a new league to play in. The CIFL is changing in some directions for the better of the "League" and some teams that have jumped ship may want to recapitulate their thoughts. Some of the ideas mentioned by the owners will come to fruition. :)

Consider teams may not have a choice at this point to find new homes as most agree the CIFL will not return and that decision made prior to any teams jumping off the ship.

[MarshalMan35]

Without any regard to league strength or anything of that sort - the UIFL rule set may not play real well in Marion, with a narrower field and 5ish yard end zones.

As to stay on topic - this isn't a good sign for the CIFL.


actually the UIFL uses the same field size. EKY has a narrow field due to venue restrictions, much like the marion coliseum. The rule changes will be the real challenge.

[exit322]

actually the UIFL uses the same field size. EKY has a narrow field due to venue restrictions, much like the marion coliseum. The rule changes will be the real challenge.

That's what I said. :-P Marion's narrower and the rule set might not work. That said, if their defense is solid, it might be to their advantage. Home field advantage is a big deal in the 50-yard game for this reason.

[IndoorDan]

I found this new press release from the SFA:



PRESS RELEASE

For Immediate Release
July 8, 2011
For Further Information, Contact:
David Seiter, President
Stadius Football Association
(317) 842-8283

SFA MEETING AND SCHEDULE SET
INDIANAPOLIS - The Stadius Football Association has released information on its upcoming meeting July 31 with midwest team owners.

"We are delighted to tell you that Mike Loomis will actually host all the team owners interested in joining the league on his living room," SFA President David Seiter said.

"However, please bring your own food and drinks. The league will actually commence after the meeting with Loomis' holding home team advantage and he does reserve right to hit reset on the season if his team is losing."

Team owners will be expected to help clean up the living room before his wife returns, according to Seiter. "Cheetos are the worst to clean," he added.

The league will be played using XBox rules.

[BananaCat]

I found this new press release from the SFA:



PRESS RELEASE

For Immediate Release
July 8, 2011
For Further Information, Contact:
David Seiter, President
Stadius Football Association
(317) 842-8283

SFA MEETING AND SCHEDULE SET
INDIANAPOLIS - The Stadius Football Association has released information on its upcoming meeting July 31 with midwest team owners.

"We are delighted to tell you that Mike Loomis will actually host all the team owners interested in joining the league on his living room," SFA President David Seiter said.

"However, please bring your own food and drinks. The league will actually commence after the meeting with Loomis' holding home team advantage and he does reserve right to hit reset on the season if his team is losing."

Team owners will be expected to help clean up the living room before his wife returns, according to Seiter. "Cheetos are the worst to clean," he added.

The league will be played using XBox rules.
I can see this league surpassing the AFL.

[BananaCat]

most agree the CIFL will not return
Never say never with them.

[jerry101jlh]

Never say never with them.

That would be true BC, but I and others don't see them even having enough of their 2011 teams to even begin rebuilding as in past seasons. I also think CIFL management is just tired and ready for the towel to be thrown in.

[exit322]

I'd prefer PS2; isn't that the platform the AFL game was on?

[IndoorDan]

Seiter says it is only Xbox rules, that doesn't rule out other systems.

Only that you have to play by the rules in that system.

He fiercely stated:

"We will have indoor football, we will have a league. If you play a season, inside, even if its on your computer, or tv, it's still indoor football."

[jerry101jlh]

Seiter says it is only Xbox rules, that doesn't rule out other systems.

Only that you have to play by the rules in that system.

He fiercely stated:

"We will have indoor football, we will have a league. If you play a season, inside, even if its on your computer, or tv, it's still indoor football."

I read this over several times and I can not argue with his logic, it is indoor football lol

[BananaCat]

Seiter says it is only Xbox rules, that doesn't rule out other systems.

Only that you have to play by the rules in that system.

He fiercely stated:

"We will have indoor football, we will have a league. If you play a season, inside, even if its on your computer, or tv, it's still indoor football."
If it's not on the Wii I won't be following it.

Wii Mario Kart rules btw. If ever someone wants to get totally embarrassed on it, PM me and I'll beat you down.

[BananaCat]

That would be true BC, but I and others don't see them even having enough of their 2011 teams to even begin rebuilding as in past seasons. I also think CIFL management is just tired and ready for the towel to be thrown in.
They should've folded up their tent 2 years ago. I won't count them out until the 2012 season begins and they aren't playing. They haven't got it in gear until a month before the season begins anyway, so we won't know until then baring an official announcement of the league folding (which I agree with Josh, probably would never happen).

[Gusher]

I found this new press release from the SFA:



PRESS RELEASE

For Immediate Release
July 8, 2011
For Further Information, Contact:
David Seiter, President
Stadius Football Association
(317) 842-8283

SFA MEETING AND SCHEDULE SET
INDIANAPOLIS - The Stadius Football Association has released information on its upcoming meeting July 31 with midwest team owners.

"We are delighted to tell you that Mike Loomis will actually host all the team owners interested in joining the league on his living room," SFA President David Seiter said.

"However, please bring your own food and drinks. The league will actually commence after the meeting with Loomis' holding home team advantage and he does reserve right to hit reset on the season if his team is losing."

Team owners will be expected to help clean up the living room before his wife returns, according to Seiter. "Cheetos are the worst to clean," he added.

The league will be played using XBox rules. Wow great writing you should go to work for some of the other IFL's. I hear they pay... well sometimes

[Tommy T]

Not hardly, I did notice that whenever talk is about leagues taking teams from the CIFL..the comment is always that the team is well run, competitive and organized. Then they move on to another league that is supposedly better than the CIFL and has more to offer....yet within two years the teams fold. Ever wonder why? Extreme travel costs, over bearing management...water water everywhere and not a drop to drink. That is why the CIFL can have teams close together because they really are a class organization. All leagues have some issues, so why not put the ego's aside and the expectations of grandure with extreme wealth for the fat cat owner and merge. They could make a real competitive league with real playoffs and large corporate sponsorship and nationwide tv....if they would give it a try...just a chance....it might work.

[IndoorDan]

nationwide tv

national TV, really.

Let's define national TV.

Everyone knows of the ill-fated AFL network deal that garnered fractions of ratings points/shares. Even when the AFL gave alway the product to NBC, the network couldn't get out of the deal from get quick enough.

This is when the league had some marquee value and was considered a sixth major league sport.

NFL Network desperately needs content in the spring and summer and I am sure they didn't give AFL version 2.0 much of any money.

Why in the world would any viable broadcast outlet on a national level even touch an indoor league?

Maybe some regional networks for a game or two, but generally I think we all know it won't happen.

I'd love to be wrong.

Anyone disagree?

[IndoorDan]

With the the second former team in two weeks, Cincinnati, bolting to the UIFL I issue this open letter to officials in the alleged SFA:



Good luck to you. We hardly ever knew you.

[MarshalMan35]

national TV, really.

Let's define national TV.

Everyone knows of the ill-fated AFL network deal that garnered fractions of ratings points/shares. Even when the AFL gave alway the product to NBC, the network couldn't get out of the deal from get quick enough.

This is when the league had some marquee value and was considered a sixth major league sport.

NFL Network desperately needs content in the spring and summer and I am sure they didn't give AFL version 2.0 much of any money.

Why in the world would any viable broadcast outlet on a national level even touch an indoor league?

Maybe some regional networks for a game or two, but generally I think we all know it won't happen.

I'd love to be wrong.

Anyone disagree?

Agreed. I think the NIFL was planning a national TV network for their joke of a season in '07. But that, like everything else they did that year, went to the trash very quickly.

[jimsmith]

What teams are left?? everyone is jumping ship.

[IndoorDan]

... and another venue, and probably the chances of the RiverMonsters franchise playing again.

http://theuifl.com/archives/1499

If true

[MarshalMan35]

It's possible that the UIFL will allow the monsters to return as long as they have a new front office. It would be nice if the players, coaches, name/logo, etc. could stick around for 2012

[50 Yard Fan]

They posted this on their Facebook page:

Attention Silverbacks Fans! Some of you have been asking about what league we will be in for the 2012 season and we said when we were sure we would tell you. Well the answer is in!! We are STILL proud members of the CIFL and will spend our 2012 season with them! Rumors of the CIFL being gone are not true, and new teams will come into the league. Once we have ALL the details we will further fill you in.

[gatek99]

They posted this on their Facebook page:

I wonder what new teams are coming

[Sykotyk]

I wonder what new teams are coming

An APFL/Kansas Koyotes thing might work better for them. No travel. Visiting players won't get paid by default. And the home team will win virtually every game ensuring fans are happy.

That's the only way I see Dayton surviving.