PDA

View Full Version : Uslís most valuable soccer property: The misl


Soccer-Man
05-23-2011, 06:48 PM
Over the years, the world of sports has seen some incredible mergers. There was the NFL/AFL. There was NBA/ABA. There was the NHL/WHA. Now with the merger of the MISL and USL, we have a super league and the largest soccer marriage in the history of North America. It is with this train of thought that I truly believe that of all the USL’s soccer markets, the MISL may be gearing up to be its most successful. It is also to the superb vision of the Honorable Mr. Edwin F. Hale that such a venture is even possible. Thank you sir for not only keeping indoor soccer alive, but for creating what could very possibly (and very soon) become the 5th major league.

Taking a snapshot of the USL’s (first division) attendance for this year and last, with that of the MISL and I was floored. If you combined the 2 leagues, the holdover teams that played in the MISL last season holds 3 of the top 5 positions. Add to that a guaranteed strong market in Wichita, and the MISL will have at least 4 of the top average attendance of all of the United Soccer Leagues’ cities.


Orlando/USL..................(New).....................(7, 029 3 games '11)
Baltimore/MISL..............(6,933 last season)..(6,933 last season)
Rochester/USL...............(6,464 last season)..(4,719 3 games '11)
*Milwaukee/MISL...........(4,531 last season)..(4,531 last season)
Missouri/MISL................(4,017 last season...(4,017 last season)
Charleston/USL..............(3,641 last season)..(3,830 3 games '11)
Wilmington/USL.............(could not find)........(3,480 4 games '11)
Antigua/USL..................(New).....................(3, 067 3 games '11)
NY/USL.........................(New)................. ....(2,011 1 game '11)
Richmond/USL................(2,044 last season)..(1,785 5 games '11)

Source: Kenn.com and Wikipedia *Asterisk beside "Championship Season"

In fact, the USL First Division has averaged 4,720 (2009), 5,164 in 2008 and 4,420 ('07). Those are numbers that are extremely close to the MISL. Any kind of uptick and the MISL as a league will be the top averaging soccer property of the USL.

tops804
05-23-2011, 07:52 PM
1) The USL and MISL didn't merge. They entered into an agreement for the USL to operate the MISL. The USL was forming an indoor league, the I-league, and put its few teams into the weakened MISL.

2) The USL is an outdoor league. Why are you comparing outdoor soccer, to indoor soccer's, attendance?

3) While speaking of "incredible mergers", you forgot the USA and NPSL forming the NASL in 1968. I'd think most would agree that soccer, could have been made or broken in the states had the NASL still existed. An outdoor league and a small indoor league "merging" today, hardly make ESPN and USA Today jump up to hire new reporters.

4) Did you ever think of just sending a professionally written resume to Mr. Hale?

Round Lake Illini
05-23-2011, 10:43 PM
Orlando/USL..................(New).....................(7, 029 3 games '11)
Baltimore/MISL..............(6,933 last season)..(6,933 last season)
Rochester/USL...............(6,464 last season)..(4,719 3 games '11)
*Milwaukee/MISL...........(4,531 last season)..(4,531 last season)
Missouri/MISL................(4,017 last season...(4,017 last season)
Charleston/USL..............(3,641 last season)..(3,830 3 games '11)
Wilmington/USL.............(could not find)........(3,480 4 games '11)
Antigua/USL..................(New).....................(3, 067 3 games '11)
NY/USL.........................(New)................. ....(2,011 1 game '11)
Richmond/USL................(2,044 last season)..(1,785 5 games '11)

Source: Kenn.com and Wikipedia *Asterisk beside "Championship Season"



Seriously, you need to quit your childish whining about Milwaukee's MISL title. I've seen many crybabies on the message boards but you are the worst. Grow up and be a man*!

*Asterisk beside "man".

:D

Sam Hill
05-24-2011, 06:38 PM
You've not come within a country mile of making sense with any of that nonsense above. It's cliche, but true, what you have just written really IS one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. Even by your standards.

It wasn't Hale's idea, first off, so don't credit his "vision." The MISL is never ever ever ever ever ever ever going to become the fifth major league - you're delusional. Indoor soccer hit its peak in the early to mid 1980s. Your attendance figures are apples and oranges and have absolutely zero squat to do with anything. Neither Wichita nor any other city is a "guaranteed strong market." And I'm going to guess the USL's most "valuable" property is the one that either generates the most revenue or would be worth the most if you went to sell it. That sure as hell ain't the MISL. The USL's youth initiatives are probably very lucrative, given how many teams they have and how eager suburban white people are to give up money so their kids can play soccer at a perceived high level. That might be the biggest part of their business if their amateur league isn't.

But it sure as hell ain't the MISL. You're a total idiot. And a crybaby with the whole Milwaukee thing. They beat your team in the final. Boo hoo. That's just a cross you'll have to bear. Like every other fan of every other team in the history of ever. Moron.

Pounder
05-25-2011, 02:48 PM
MISL probably has higher costs than revenues. Won't that ever bear out.

More important than the franchise values, the value of PDL and Y to US Soccer is massive. That's where players develop without idiotic college rules. That's where MLS is placing youth programs. It's going to take a while, some outfits need to learn how to abandon "pay to play" (not everyone does it, nobody should). The only issue is the possibility of MLS taking the rest of the development process in house.

Soccer-Man
05-25-2011, 06:14 PM
Seriously, you need to quit your childish whining about Milwaukee's MISL title. I've seen many crybabies on the message boards but you are the worst. Grow up and be a man*!

*Asterisk beside "man".

:D

I don't want to turn this into a *Milwuakee Wave battle because we've been through this before. Earlier, I said that I would not recognize the *Wave as MISL Champions because of the way that particular game was allowed to morph into a wrestling match. I have since given my position some though and will now recognize the *Milwuakee Wave's Championship Season.

Soccer-Man
05-25-2011, 06:33 PM
You've not come within a country mile of making sense with any of that nonsense above. It's cliche, but true, what you have just written really IS one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. Even by your standards.

It wasn't Hale's idea, first off, so don't credit his "vision." The MISL is never ever ever ever ever ever ever going to become the fifth major league - you're delusional. Indoor soccer hit its peak in the early to mid 1980s. Your attendance figures are apples and oranges and have absolutely zero squat to do with anything. Neither Wichita nor any other city is a "guaranteed strong market." And I'm going to guess the USL's most "valuable" property is the one that either generates the most revenue or would be worth the most if you went to sell it. That sure as hell ain't the MISL. The USL's youth initiatives are probably very lucrative, given how many teams they have and how eager suburban white people are to give up money so their kids can play soccer at a perceived high level. That might be the biggest part of their business if their amateur league isn't.

But it sure as hell ain't the MISL. You're a total idiot. And a crybaby with the whole Milwaukee thing. They beat your team in the final. Boo hoo. That's just a cross you'll have to bear. Like every other fan of every other team in the history of ever. Moron.

My good friend, the numbers don't lie. The MISL is very close to over taking the USL First Division in average attendance. The numbers bare that out. According to my good friend Kenn, as of 5/23/11, last year's MISL attendance would be second only to the MLS in professional soccer in North America. And don't forget, that last year's MISL carry the City of Chicago's Riot and had to deal with an under funded Omaha Vipers team. Now we have a super league with strong owners and strong leadership from the USL.

http://www.kenn.com/the_blog/?p=4275

MLS:................................17377
MISL (last season).............3,982
NASL................................3,393
USL-Pro.............................2,252
WPS ................................3,170
PDL..................................733
W-League.........................388

Soccer-Man
05-25-2011, 06:42 PM
MISL probably has higher costs than revenues. Won't that ever bear out.

More important than the franchise values, the value of PDL and Y to US Soccer is massive. That's where players develop without idiotic college rules. That's where MLS is placing youth programs. It's going to take a while, some outfits need to learn how to abandon "pay to play" (not everyone does it, nobody should). The only issue is the possibility of MLS taking the rest of the development process in house.

The MISL is posed to be second only to the MLS when it comes to professional soccer leagues' support, in North America. The numbers don't lie. Wichita is a fantastic market and will produce from day 1. Chicago CAN be salvaged and turned into a marginal market if the Riot attracts a new investor and move the team to either the Sears Center or UIC Pavilion. In either one of those arenas, the Riot can draw between 2 - 3,000 fans. Not great, but better than the 1,000 they drew at the Expo.

The City of Rochester's soccer support speaks for itself. That leaves only Syracuse and Norfolk as the wild cards of the teams that we can confirm will be a part of the MISL. Should be exciting.

Sam Hill
05-25-2011, 11:33 PM
The MISL is very close to over taking the USL First Division in average attendance.

There is no USL First Division anymore, first off. Secondly, one would hope a "major" league could outdraw a "minor" league. Thirdly, you said the MISL would do 5k a game last season (not close). Finally, again, apples and oranges.

last year's MISL attendance would be second only to the MLS in professional soccer in North America.

You mean last year's MISL average attendance and this year's numbers outdoors? Why do you insist on comparing the two?

And don't forget, that last year's MISL carry the City of Chicago's Riot and had to deal with an under funded Omaha Vipers team.

Funny how you didn't mention how under-funded Omaha was when you said they were more than holding their own at the start of last season.

Now we have a super league with strong owners and strong leadership from the USL.

A "super league" where four of the seven teams have yet to play the first game in their history. And if those exact same three teams that were in the I-League had stayed there, you'd have denigrated everything about them because they couldn't possibly be as good as the almighty MISL.

Sam Hill
05-25-2011, 11:35 PM
The City of Rochester's soccer support speaks for itself. That leaves only Syracuse and Norfolk as the wild cards of the teams that we can confirm will be a part of the MISL. Should be exciting.

"We can confirm?" It's been announced, genius. You're not ahead of the curve on anything. I know you like to act like an insider, but you're not. You have no idea what you're talking about.

Pounder
05-29-2011, 12:12 AM
I think you'll thank me for changing the subject.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s50SvZm9jQE

Soccer-Man
05-29-2011, 01:06 PM
I think you'll thank me for changing the subject.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s50SvZm9jQE

I love the National Anthem. I love this great nation.

What I don't like is for a suppose professional sports organization to allow it fans (some of whom are obviously drunk) to party their way through the National Anthem. Those historic words represent so much about America, that it should only be done with seriousness in mind.

Lets change the subject back please.

Sam Hill
05-29-2011, 04:30 PM
Soccer-Man: keeping the world safe for democracy and from people who party during the National Anthem.

Soccer-Man
06-06-2011, 07:25 PM
Just a look at the most recent soccer attendance numbers as provided by my good friend Kenn Tomasch.

http://www.kenn.com/the_blog/?p=4277

Again, the numbers don't lie. Using the most recent numbers, the BALTIMORE BLAST would have the highest average attendance of any USL teams. 6,933 to Orlando's 6,401. In fact, of all the soccer clubs in North Amberica, only the entire MLS and the NASL's Montreal Impact average more than the BLAST. Not bad. Moreover, the entire MISL's most recent numbers would place us second, only to the MLS.

It's clear that the MISL being the second most popular soccer league in North America, is on the rise. Seems the USL knew full well what it was doing when it entered into a lucrative agreement to run the MISL.

Way to go!!!

BlastFan
06-07-2011, 01:55 PM
I miss La RaZa de Monterrey when they played. Each team had to add the Mexican flag to its rafters and had to play both national anthems before their games.

With them and a few other teams south of the border back, and a few Canadian teams, the league would truly be an international league. That would be amazing.

Pounder
06-08-2011, 12:38 PM
The USL spawned sellout after sellout for MLS in Portland. Heck, it became such a tidal wave that not even AAA baseball could withstand it. (Too bad that USL can't keep its successful franchises, but that's another matter)

Having said that, Ed Hale is so rippin' successful that he bought USL. Right? Um, no, it appears to be the other way around. Talk about stepping in it after the grass was already mowed...

Your act on bigsoccer was and is tired. Your act here is the same. I shall use every tangent I feel like using, because it is deserved. You may have a right to bring up subjects, but no moral ground to have them regarded.

BTW, the Star Spangled Banner's origins are as a song sung drunkenly in pubs. I'm sure millions of soldiers died in order to keep the country boring.

wasteland
06-08-2011, 12:54 PM
lucrative agreement

lol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BlastFan
06-08-2011, 01:46 PM
Having said that, Ed Hale is so rippin' successful that he bought USL. Right? Um, no, it appears to be the other way around. Talk about stepping in it after the grass was already mowed...

The USL is operating/structuring the league. With that being said, the MISL is a bigger/older name than the USL. The MISL brand is more known than USL. The MISL also draws bigger crowds than the USL. One of the reasons they stuck with the MISL brand, not the "I-League."

Hell, the MISL, which was known as the MSL after the 89-90 season was founded before this whole MLS came into fruition. Indoor soccer was a big thing in the past, and has the capability of being as big, if not bigger, in the future than the MSL. More people have stopped going to major league sporting events, if the new MISL markets its affordability more and spreads the word out, there's no question this league is going to grow significantly in the coming years.

Pounder
06-08-2011, 03:09 PM
Indoor soccer was a big thing in the past, and has the capability of being as big, if not bigger, in the future than the MSL. More people have stopped going to major league sporting events, if the new MISL markets its affordability more and spreads the word out, there's no question this league is going to grow significantly in the coming years.

Earl Foreman was one of the founders of the old MISL, and once famously said "I don't give two ***** about outdoor soccer."

Only problem being the complete lack of a player development infrastructure, meaning the guy was DEPENDENT upon the outdoor game for players, hence the product.

How many facilities did MISL ever get built specifically for it? Big fat zero.

MLS: Columbus, Los Angeles, Dallas, Chicago, Toronto, Denver, Salt Lake, New York (OK, New Jersey again), and Philadelphia.

Oh, Kansas City's new house opens tomorrow night. Houston is under construction. San Jose is sited and awaiting final approvals.

I didn't even count Portland and Vancouver... they're both renovations, Portland is more legitimately soccer-purposed, Vancouver is putting a lot of money into letting the Whitecaps share with the BC Lions in BC Place.

By my count, that leaves Seattle (at 36,000 a game) without a place of their own and happy to ride that ugly wave, while DC and New England are both trying to find stadium sites. Montreal will be expanding Stade Saputo for their expansion next year. # 20 is under discussion.

You really think a renter like MISL has a chance against that?

Have fun with the delusions.

Sam Hill
06-08-2011, 03:19 PM
The USL is operating/structuring the league. With that being said, the MISL is a bigger/older name than the USL.

It's older. I don't know about bigger. I think what's now USL has only used that particular name since about 1999? 2000? It has had many different names over the years.

The brand "MISL," on the other hand, was around from 1978 to about 1990(?) when they became simply "MSL," right? And since then we had the reboot of the name from 2001 (?) to 2008 and now again from 2009 to the present.

It's certainly an older brand; it's a better name (might be the best name for a soccer league this country has had). Don't know that it's bigger anymore.

The MISL brand is more known than USL.

Among whom, exactly? Indoor soccer has been really marginalized of late. And it has had only a handful of teams the last several years, whereas USL has operated more than a hundred teams at various levels (and both genders) for years and years now. I think you're wrong. I believe you WANT to believe the MISL brand is "more known" (however you define that, which I'm sure will be with your own metrics) than the USL, but I don't know that it's actually true.

The MISL also draws bigger crowds than the USL.

In Baltimore, sure. Not in Chicago. There are USL teams that outdraw MISL teams, so I'm not quite sure what you're getting at. If you mean "USL Pro," the crowds are all over the place, with Orlando getting really good crowds and Los Angeles getting crap crowds. Kind of like Baltimore and Chicago (or Rockford or Springfield before that). There's no way you can make that blanket statement and not have someone call you on it.

One of the reasons they stuck with the MISL brand, not the "I-League."

There IS value in the brand, I'm not denying that. But the "bigger crowds" argument (which is, again, largely bull****) isn't one of the major reasons they would have done it.

Hell, the MISL, which was known as the MSL after the 89-90 season was founded before this whole MLS came into fruition.

Founded, flourished and died. What's your point? "This whole MLS" has also now been around longer than the original MISL, and it's fairly obvious why: infrastructure (as Pounder alludes to) and the fact that, despite all the crowing about how indoor was going to be the soccer of choice for Americans, it's not true at all. The outdoor version is exponentially more popular than the indoor version. There is no way you can say otherwise, no matter how much you want it to be otherwise.

Indoor soccer was a big thing in the past,

Nearly 30 years ago.

and has the capability of being as big, if not bigger, in the future than the MSL.

No, it does not. (And I don't know if you mis-typed that and meant it has the capability of being as big, if not bigger, in the future than the "MSL" - the end stages of the original MISL - or "MLS." If you meant "MLS," you're on crack because that has absolutely no chance of ever happening. Ever.)

More people have stopped going to major league sporting events, if the new MISL markets its affordability more and spreads the word out, there's no question this league is going to grow significantly in the coming years.

From six maybe to ten teams. Or twelve! A guy can dream, right? But it won't be the same dozen teams from year to year because there will always be two new expansion teams to replace the three that folded. And indoor will never - NEVER - be what it was in the 1980s, nor will it be a challenger to outdoor. A complement? Sure. And can it be done better than it has been done? Of course it can.

But if you go any further than that, you're on drugs.

BlastFan
06-08-2011, 03:24 PM
I don't think you got at what I was driving at. Of course its impossible to draw over 30,000 indoors. Soccer is the worlds sport, but I believe more specifically indoor soccer is North America's sport. It's the second best soccer league besides the MLS of course.

From what I'm looking at, the MISL is not at the bottom of the chain anymore. In the USL, they are probably the top league/division in relation to the quality of their players and the amount of people they draw a game. The other divisions in the USL will be feeder divisions a/k/a the "minors."

Soccer-Man
06-09-2011, 10:36 AM
The USL spawned sellout after sellout for MLS in Portland. Heck, it became such a tidal wave that not even AAA baseball could withstand it. (Too bad that USL can't keep its successful franchises, but that's another matter)

Having said that, Ed Hale is so rippin' successful that he bought USL. Right? Um, no, it appears to be the other way around. Talk about stepping in it after the grass was already mowed...

Your act on bigsoccer was and is tired. Your act here is the same. I shall use every tangent I feel like using, because it is deserved. You may have a right to bring up subjects, but no moral ground to have them regarded.

BTW, the Star Spangled Banner's origins are as a song sung drunkenly in pubs. I'm sure millions of soldiers died in order to keep the country boring.

I'm sorry if my rebuke of the whole drunk Portland fans playing around with the National Anthem offended you, but I stand by my position. I just don't think that's funny or patriotic. However, to each his own. But by your stance, I guess it was funny when Rosanne Barr did the same thing.

I don't want to turn this into patriotic ideological talk, but clearly we are on different pages and that's fine. I respect the soldiers who die for this great nation. We should all respect their sacrafice by being respectful of the singing of the national anthem.

That's my take. We don't have to agree.

Soccer-Man
06-10-2011, 06:08 PM
Seems as if the MISL and USL are getting unto business. The new site is up and running.

http://misl.uslsoccer.com/

At first glance, I'm not impressed. Isn't as vivid as the old one, but if MISL.USLsoccer.com is constantly updated, than I'm sure my opinion will change.


Some ideas for the new site could start with player interviews, more highlights, player profiles and current league news. There was a Board of Governors meeting on Tuesday with league directors Chris Economides, Jason Arnold and USL President Tim Holt. To their credit, the USL quickly shared this information with the fans. This is the type of interactive communication that will keep fans updated.

So far so good.

BlastFan
10-24-2011, 03:39 PM
The USL has done well so far in promoting the league. They've thought enough of the league to retain it's same logo, buy two domains misl.com and misl.net so fans don't have to go through the USLs site, and keep the social networks for the MISL instead of going the easy route and merging them to the USL's facebook.

Oh, and the MISL has its own webcast center - www.misllivesoccer.com

And to whoever asked about broadcasts... well they'll do replays on foxsoccer channel and the Championship game is a definite live broadcast.

preeths
10-25-2011, 09:00 AM
And to whoever asked about broadcasts... well they'll do replays on foxsoccer channel and the Championship game is a definite live broadcast.
Has that been announced? Can you provide confirmation?

Sam Hill
10-26-2011, 01:33 PM
Hasn't been announced that I'm aware of. Hinted at, but not officially announced.

But BlastFan/Soccer-Man is so plugged in, must be true.

Pounder
10-27-2011, 12:20 AM
Hasn't been announced that I'm aware of. Hinted at, but not officially announced.

But BlastFan/Soccer-Man is so plugged in, must be true.

This time... I tend to believe it.

FSC doesn't have Holland or Germany or France to fall back on since they're about to lose MLS. Plenty of prime time weekdays are available down the pike. Besides, USL has a history of buying time with FSC.

Not that FSC couldn't suddenly get another league's broadcasts. Thing is, however, they get ratings for Premiership, and they obviously must get something for Serie A. Why they don't go for sloppy Spanish seconds or English-language Primera Mexico may or may not confound me.

BlastFan
10-29-2011, 09:44 AM
Hasn't been announced that I'm aware of. Hinted at, but not officially announced.

But BlastFan/Soccer-Man is so plugged in, must be true.

The live championship broadcast has been mentioned in many PRs. As to the rebroadcasts of the season, I believe it was mentioned back when the USL I-league was taking shape and just recently in some USL episode on FSC.

Don't know why you're including me in the same sentence as soccerman, is it because we're both fans of the Blast?

Soccer-Man
11-06-2011, 04:56 PM
With almost 13,000 fans attending 3 MISL games this weekend, I guess the point is made. And that's without the 6 Time WORLD CHAMPION BALTIMORE BLAST playing a game.

THE MISL IS THE USL'S MOST VALUABLE SOCCER PROPERTY.

The numbers don't lie.

The USL-Pro averaged 2,147 this year.

http://www.kenn.com/the_blog/?tag=usl-pro

I promise you that the MISL will surpass that number by a WIDE margin. This will place the MISL just behind the MLS as North America's most popular soccer league. This battle for soccer supremacy is far from over.

TO BE CONTINUED.......

tops804
11-06-2011, 10:37 PM
With almost 13,000 fans attending 3 MISL games this weekend, I guess the point is made. And that's without the 6 Time WORLD CHAMPION BALTIMORE BLAST playing a game.

THE MISL IS THE USL'S MOST VALUABLE SOCCER PROPERTY.

The numbers don't lie.

The USL-Pro averaged 2,147 this year.

http://www.kenn.com/the_blog/?tag=usl-pro

I promise you that the MISL will surpass that number by a WIDE margin. This will place the MISL just behind the MLS as North America's most popular soccer league. This battle for soccer supremacy is far from over.

TO BE CONTINUED.......

I am trying to figure out what this all means ? :confused:

Do you also have the figures involving whose expenses are higher? Will you come back here and defend yourself if the MISL slips below your predicted 2,147 + "It's wide margin" ; which you fail to define?

4,333 for three opening dates? Does this mean it will keep up this way all year?

And that's without the 6 Time WORLD CHAMPION BALTIMORE BLAST playing a game.

Which they also failed to do in the deciding championship game this past season!!!! :p :p :p

This battle for soccer supremacy is far from over.

Yes it is....It's called the English Premier League.

BlastFan
11-07-2011, 07:34 PM
I am not as completely enthused as SoccerMan is. For one thing, none of the teams drew a 100% sellout. I do, however, have to give kudos to the Wings for drawing so well on a weeknight (surpassing Missouri's attendance on a Friday). But I was highly dissapointed in Syracuse, as their minor league hockey team sells out the arena on multiple occasions - the owners of the Knights must not have publicized/marketed their team as efficiently as they could have.

But yeah, if we're comparing all the leagues the USL operates, the MISL is the biggest of them all. The outdoor leagues that the USL operates are looking like feeder leagues into the MISL.

Soccer-Man
11-16-2011, 06:19 PM
http://misl.stats.pointstreak.com/attendance.html?leagueid=919&seasonid=8052

I guess the numbers don't lie after all. After the first 2 weekends of the season, the MISL is averaging a rather healthy 4,681. I'm certain that the higher ups at the USL are please with the return on their preeminent league.

BlastFan
11-19-2011, 07:59 AM
Not quite the 5,000 you had hoped for last season (and that was with the help of Baltimore's attendance) but this league nevertheless is growing and I really hope one day there will be a team or two that actually outdraw the Blast.