Best "Untapped" Markets

[Texasrangers13]

This is a hypothetical question... Curious to draw-up a list of places suitable for Indy Ball (preferably already with a capable ballpark). Examples:

Farmington, NM
Pueblo, CO
Murray, UT

Or abandoned markets that could be revived.

Many/Most of the Spring Training locales in AZ.

[Jntg4]

This will be shocking to most, but Chicago. Chicago handles the minors well, and the Wolves were drawing about as much as the Blackhawks until relatively recently (since the Hawks became good again).

Chicago's two major league teams are very popular, BUT they also have some of the most expensive tickets in baseball. Nearby teams such as the Kane County Cougars draw decently, and a team actually in Chicago or a closer suburb would draw well.

[smallballfan]

Jntg,

There are many indy teams around Chicago already - Joliet, Windy City, Lake County (maybe), Gary, Schaumburg in 2012, etc. So a good point about Chicago but they're way ahead of you.

Palm Springs might be a nice market in a league that could sustain out West, which nobody's really been able to do. PS has run a winter league for a few years so they have at least a usable ballpark. Might be a better fit for collegiate wood bat as there seems to be a large league in that genre already in CA.

Didn't the GL try spring training sites when they first started up, Mesa and somewhere else. The problem is nobody is going to come out in 115 degree temperatures and see players they never heard of, no matter how much entertainment you put there or how many novelty (Jose Canseco in Yuma) acts you sign up.

[Jntg4]

Jntg,

There are many indy teams around Chicago already - Joliet, Windy City, Lake County (maybe), Gary, Schaumburg in 2012, etc. So a good point about Chicago but they're way ahead of you.

Palm Springs might be a nice market in a league that could sustain out West, which nobody's really been able to do. PS has run a winter league for a few years so they have at least a usable ballpark. Might be a better fit for collegiate wood bat as there seems to be a large league in that genre already in CA.

Didn't the GL try spring training sites when they first started up, Mesa and somewhere else. The problem is nobody is going to come out in 115 degree temperatures and see players they never heard of, no matter how much entertainment you put there or how many novelty (Jose Canseco in Yuma) acts you sign up.

Sure there are some around, but those are further from the city's core than what I'm talking about. I was thinking a team that could play in like Cook or DuPage County, and actually carry the Chicago name... makes them more noticeable to people here.

Chicago White Stockings maybe? Take the old name of the Cubs (and the Sox were the White Stockings later, but did not officially have 'Chicago' in their name).

IDK, you said I had a good point anyway. ;)

[MJHankel]

Chicago White Stockings maybe? Take the old name of the Cubs (and the Sox were the White Stockings later, but did not officially have 'Chicago' in their name).

Inner Chicago may work but that name never would, one of those teams is bound to own the Trademark for that name, and if not MLB will.

[Jntg4]

Inner Chicago may work but that name never would, one of those teams is bound to own the Trademark for that name, and if not MLB will.

I don't think it is trademarked, the Cubs used it from 1870-1871, and 1874-1889. The Sox used it from 1900 (as a minor league team) and 1901-1903.

But they could think of a better name anyway.

[J.J. Smith]

Got to agree with MJHankel on the trademake issue. And no way would they let an indy team use them.

As far as the Chicago area needing more teams...it doesn't. Standard Bank Stadium in Crestwood is less than 5 miles from the SW Chicago border, and it just hangs on. Joliet and Schaumburg recently imploded. The Lake County team has to threaten law suites to get a poor city to put up some sort of facility for them. Only Kane County has done consistently well around here, and even their attendance has been in noticeable decline the last couple years.

That being said, I think Joliet and Schaumburg can both be successful if run and marketed well. They have the benefit of excellent staduims, the likes of which will never be buillt for indy teams again in this area.

Lake County could possibly do well with a college wood bat league. Make it a food and drinkathon sort of environment with a baseball game in the background. That's what the market up here wants. Not my thing, however. I'm looking forward to catching some AA games in Schaumburg next year.

[wasteland]

A quick Google search shows that the Chicago White Sox own the trademark to the White Stockings. Part of the great thing about owning the trademark is you can license it to others to use otherwise, what’s the point. If a deal could be worked out (x amount for every ticket and piece of merch sold), it could happen. No minor league team is a threat to a MLB team, in the end its all about money. But my guess it would put too much financial strain on a new minor league team to have to pay the fees and royalties.

I think a minor league team could work in or near downtown. Use a throwback theme for the stadium and have a bar attached to it, it might just work. Guess it would be like a Cubs game, you go cause its the thing to do, not to watch a baseball game. But boy would it cost alot to get off the ground, more than anyone would be willing to throw at it in todays economy.

[Texasrangers13]

Grand Island, NE.

PERFECT American Association market.

[BerkshireFan]

Springfield, Mass.

[GoCyclones!]

Interesting topic. I don't think AZ spring training locales would work. I wondered about that myself. A lot of them are in use anyway with rookie ball and instructionals.

I wondered also about Springfield, MA. I don't know much about it except that it's a bit depressed and the Atlantic League has tried with not much success putting teams in depressed areas, with the exception of Camden, NJ, which does have the large Philly population to draw from.

I think in the Northeast there aren't many opportunities for expansion left that haven't been explored already. Nassau County and Westchester County (NYC burbs) are already being talked about. I think Montreal could be a gold mine but I understand they are staunchly opposed to a publicly funded stadium. How about Hamilton, Ontario? Or Windsor, Ontario? That could be a Frontier League team but crossing borders ain't so easy anymore!

[nlfan]

RE: Chicago

The analysis from the late 90s was that the Chicago area could successfully support 5 indy franchies. It's at that capacity with the addition of Zion/Lake County (not counting Kane County or Rockford which is nearly part of the of the extended Chicago area). There have been rumblings about other expansion in the are the past few years but I think the trials and tribulations in Zion should give anyone pause about expanding in the area any time soon.

RE: Grand Island, NE

Sorry, No. The AA, for the most part, has the same sorts of "minimum" criteria for franchises. Minimum population of 100K is one of them. Grand Island is half that. Now Zion IL is half that also, but can (in theory) draw upon many nearby cities.

The other criteria are (usually) location and professional grade facility in place or to be built. I don't think Grand Island has that.

RE: Canada

It often comes up and will (typically) fail since most of the best locations are already taken and the rest don't have facilities. After that it's the serious question of local fan interest. This may change if any of the current rumblings about a Canadian league might raise interest.


The locations that have been actively discussed over the past several years include:

Topeka, KS
Suburban Denver (several locations)
Ft. Smith, AK
(East) Suburban Kansas City
Suburban Detroit (many pipe dreams including Tiger Stadium and Silverdome)
More in Houston (beyond the two already in play)
Omaha (TDAP and the Omaha Flame)

Beyond these there is always the chance that an MiLB move will open something up. This is how Wichita, Shreveport and El Paso (all former double-A MiLB locations) "went indy." Any, older facility that may get undercut by a community building a new ballpark could become fodder (latest example: Pensacola Blue Wahoos taking the Carolina Mudcats franchise from NC in the Southern League).

Leafing through the back pages of BPD (Ballparkdigest.com) may turn up other locations.

[GoCyclones!]

Oakland County (suburban Detroit) I think would be another gold mine and I don't understand how they don't have a team, in any league, there already. Large, affluent population there. Wasn't there talk of the Oakland County Cruisers at one point?

Omaha is a pipe dream. I cannot imagine folks choosing to watch an indy team over the Triple-A team of the one of the best systems in the game. I also think raiding existing markets turns off more fans than it draws. I have friends that will not go to an Atlantic League game because the Bridgeport Bluefish franchise helped kill of the affiliated New Haven Ravens. I can't blame them and I'd even agree.

Some of these leagues are ridiculous. That NAL is an embarrassment I think. But I've heard some interesting ideas for leagues. A Canadian league (once tried and failed in 2003) could be interesting. There's gaining interest or at least a baseball academy in Quebec is spurring interest. At a recent game in Jupiter, FL someone told me about the Senior Baseball Professional Association, a league with a lot of retired Major Leaguers like Rollie Fingers and Dave Kingman, that lasted for one season in 1989. I'd love to see that. Florida is a sports wasteland, so why not do it in Arizona or California.
There was the very short-lived Florida Winter Baseball League started by Ken Griffey, Sr. and George Foster that folded after 15 games in 2009. I follow winter league baseball and I think if done right it could succeed and even join the Caribbean Series. Perhaps MLB could invest in that.

[alkalinefan]

This Oakland Co. (SE Mi.) situation has me puzzled also.This Oakland Co. Cruiser stuff has been going on for over 4 years now.There is not too much info given about them anymore.The last I heard was that they went to Joliet for '11 with a year to get their act together.They have had a patchwork of homefield sites over the last two years.Before that they played all their home games on the road.Maybe they will be here in '12,or maybe not.What I do know is that the last time I went by the future ballpark site,not a thing had been done.This whole thing has turned into a bad dream.A long bad dream.

[J.J. Smith]

Hilliard filed for bankruptcy in April. Here's the ugly story...

http://www.theoaklandpress.com/articles/2011/04/06/news/local_news/doc4d9bc34909e23737025720.txt

Dr. Othman Kadry, an obstetrician and gynecologist in Bloomfield Hills, now has ownership of the "team"...

http://www.theoaklandpress.com/articles/2011/05/02/sports/local/doc4dbf4d6ca7de3058278753.txt

"The Cruisers have been billed a dormant fee of $25,000 by the league, which has set a Sept. 15 deadline for the team to announce its blueprint for the 2012 season, which also should include a stadium."

[alkalinefan]

Thanks very much for the info.The latter article I've seen and read but I must have missed the first one.Alot of interesting stuff there.A few things come to mind for me,should I try to get my deposit back on season tickets?Better yet is that money even still there .I really don't want to .I kind of compare this in a funny kind of way to how long do you hold on to a girlfriend that doesn't really want you?If I knew there was a %100 chance of a team being here , even in '13 or '14 I wouldn't worry about my deposit.Another thing,all this Cruiser stuff I bought,shirts and so on,I kind of feel bad about .I feel bad because the people who made this stuff probably haven't been paid yet.In closing I must say that I went to Lansing Sunday and it felt good to be back at the ballpark.Its been almost two years since I've been there.Its always good to be in the Capital City for a game.It is still my home ballpark.

[ca]

have a new owner and will hopefully get smart and move their efforts novi which imo is a better locale due to the bypasses

[wasteland]

RE: Chicago
Rockford which is nearly part of the of the extended Chicago area).

That couldn't be further from the truth, its 50 miles to Elgin on I90 from Rockford, which is the western most major burb of Chicago. Nothing but empty fields between, except for the outlet mall in Huntley.

[J.J. Smith]

have a new owner and will hopefully get smart and move their efforts novi which imo is a better locale due to the bypasses

I kind of doubt the Bloomfield Hills doctor has much interest in doing anything with this other than liquidating the assets for whatever he can get and writing off the rest. He's a land owner in the mall area where the park was to be built, not a baseball entrepreneur.