steelheads free agent camp (SCAM)

[not so fast]

Well, it looks like the steelheads just want to make some cash. Having a camp so late in the year. By the time of their camp, they will have signed all their players already, so why not make a little cash before they start their season?

Too bad, those kids in the gary area, are being taken advantaged of by the team they support.

What a way for the new coaching staff to start off, shameless money making camp with no intentions of signing anyone.

[Ken, Steelheads fan]

I'd like to see the entire CBA do away with pay-to-play free agent camps.

Just hope this is not a repeat of last year with the Steelheads when the only new news on their website was the announcement of a $100 entry fee free agent camp. Already though, I know there will be more promotions than last year. Jewell already said he received the $500,000 from the city to market the Steelheads and Genesis Center, so I also hope that is on the level.

I must admit, I much rather see news about this year's draft party on the website than some free agent camp announcement. The draft parties are always fun.

[TEN]

I disagree with you on the timing of this free agent camp.

This camp is at the perfect time for a no name player to make his mark with the team. No matter how many players you have signed in advance, you are always wanting to find some talent right before training camp. Usually, your vets are looking for an excuse to come in late or you have players in NBA camps, etc.

This camp's timing gives participants the best opportunity to get an invite to vet camp. This is how I always ran my camps in the USBL...we had them right before vet camp...and always invited four or five of the best players to come to vet camp and earn a spot.

Look, I agree with you about teams in dead end leagues charging for multiple camps months before the season starts.

I think paid camps have their place. It takes money to run a camp...If you didn't charge something, it would be a zoo because every Tom, Dick and Harry would come try out. We would charge $125 to $150...give them a reversable jersey and shorts...and then give them a run. Usually the players were surprised when we ran them through drills to evaluate them. They thought it was just going to be two days of pickup games.

We made money off of our tryout camps. We also kept players from our camps and hooked other guys up with other teams.

If we had a camp and DIDN'T invite anyone to vet camp...then I would have a problem sleeping at night.

[not so fast]

gary will not be inviting four or five players, thats the difference.

if you thing they will , lets make a wager. i could use that dodge city or is oklahoma money.

[Ken, Steelheads fan]

Wow! Speak it (write it?) and it shall happen:

http://www.oursportscentral.com/services/releases/?id=3222343

I still think the draft party should be at either the bar inside the Genesis Center, Bennigan's at U.S. Steel Yard, or Extra Innings Bar and Grill across the street. Holding this annual event outside of Gary annually does nothing to solidify their fan base, IMO (except for the year it was held at Hooters :P ). Well, at least the Steelheads are attempting to promote the draft party this year.

The baseball Gary Southshore Railcats have spoiled me, I guess. They hold free agent camps every year, but don't charge a cent to the participants. How much money can you make on a free agent camp anyway? The Railcats (and many sports organizations like them) see the big picture and would much rather increase revenue through hot tub area rentals, party deck rentals, picnic area rentals, and luxury box rentals. There are also carnival-type games and a video arcade on site to help relieve fans of their cash. The beforementioned are only a few ways Gary's baseball team stays out of the red. The Railcats have made money the last three years (according to their GM) while the Steelheads have lost money the past three years.

I'll speak this--maybe it will work:

Day suites behind the north basket (and behind the corporate tables). Not too many people sit there anyway. Overhead canvas awning for privacy, silk plants for atmosphere, tv monitors tied into the video scoreboard, and of course wait service. Next, remove the glass enclosures from the existing upper level suites (afterall, you're not at Soldier Field). Install mini-kitchens in these upper level suites, then rent the darn things out and stop concentrating on free agent camps.

[TEN]

There is a big difference between making a minor league pro basketball team work...and minor league baseball.

I've been to Gary....been to Steelheads games...have seen the baseball park.

There are so many more revenue streams available to baseball teams than basketball.... What else can you do with a baseball park? I imagine that the Railcats pretty much do their own thing with their ballpark. They probably get to negotiate sponsorship deals with beer and soft drink companies and probably have a say in who gets pouring rights. I will assume that the Steelheads don't have that luxury. Usually the city gets to take care of that stuff.

Who gets the revenue from the signage on the scoreboard? I know that most arenas keep that for themselves...I know that many minor league baseball teams get to sell that (and huge outfield signs) themselves.

CONCESSIONS....I assume (just because it is pretty common) that the Railcats probably get most or all concessions....I mean, the city pretty much has to give the Railcats what they want...because what do you do with an empty baseball stadium if you don't have a baseball team? I will also assume that the Steelheads probably get a much smaller cut (if any at all) of concessions in the arena.

The Railcats have hot tub rentals (very much an outdoor thing), Picnic area rentals (another outdoor thing)....it's hard to find room for that in an arena...and who wants to wear a swimsuit to the arena in January?

I will also assume that the Genesis Center probably doesn't let the Steelheads sell their luxury suites and receive the revenue.

There are reasons why minor league baseball can thrive while minor league basketball can't....You don't see too many arenas built specifically for a CBA team.

A good free agent camp can bring in $10K....I know that in the USBL that is not chicken feed...I know that kind of money can go a little way in the CBA.

Nobody is asking you to spend the money to tryout...and if you make the team and earn a paycheck, that money was well spent.

[Ken, Steelheads fan]

TEN,
The Railcats' deal is even sweeter than you think. The baseball team also collects rent on the Bennigan's restaurant in right field (Bennigan's leases the space from the Railcats). The restaurant also has banquet facilities and the team gets the money from room rentals year round while Bennigan's does the catering.

All this and more and it only costs the Railcats $150,000 per year (to the city) for the next twelve years. No wonder the Railcats make money.

The Steelheads deal isn't (wasn't?) too shabby either. All the permanent signage belongs to the Genesis Center, but the Steelheads can sell all the video scoreboard advertising they want and keep all revenues. Until last season, the Steelheads received at least a $250, 000 subsidy from the city in some form or another. All beverage sales go to the Genesis Center, but the Steelheads pay rock-bottom prices to rent the arena anyway(although there is no evidence the Steelheads actually paid a dime for the Genesis Center before this season).

The Steelheads can collect all monies on suite rentals. We have discussed the possibilities. It only requires the desire to do so (and a few more amenities in both suites). We also discussed the inclusion of a sort of party deck along the upper level walkway behind the south basket. Whatever happened to that party deck idea and the staffer who came-up with the idea? :?

The Railcats have hot tub rentals (very much an outdoor thing), Picnic area rentals (another outdoor thing)....it's hard to find room for that in an arena...and who wants to wear a swimsuit to the arena in January?

I've been trying to visualize the hot tub thing for Steelhead games. I suppose a video arcade would be more appropriate (and you could keep your clothes on).

[TEN]

Ken....your post right there tells the story as to why minor league baseball works and minor league basketball doesn't...

And that doesn't even take in to consideration that most minor league operations are under the umbrella of major league baseball, who takes care of the salaries of their minor league players.

I've got to give the Northern League a lot of credit... A few years ago when it started, I thought it was doomed to failure because they weren't affiliated. How wrong I was! But it begs a question...

Why do people come out in droves to watch no-name minor league baseball players and those same people are lukewarm at best about minor league basketball....where you have at least heard of some or most of the players from college (or the NBA)? And why can't minor league basketball emulate baseball?

[Ken, Steelheads fan]

Hmmmmm.

The atmosphere seems to be better at minor league baseball games. You can sit in Bennigan's outdoor cafe (at least in Gary), have a pitcher of suds, a meal, and watch the world go by as you also watch a game. The players aren't as important (at least for me), whether it is baseball or basketball. Atmosphere is practically everything though.

[skippy]

Here's a couple of my thoughts on why minor league basketball can't draw. I would love to hear anyone else's thoughts on the matter.

1. Lack of a nostalgic lure to minor league basketball.
2. Minor league basketballs silly attempt to emulate the NBA experience on a smaller scale, rather than trying to create a unique experience.
3. Lack of intimacy in the larger arenas, lack of professionalism in high school and middle school gyms, general lack of mid-sized arenas in the U.S.
4. Lack of cohesive team play on some levels, although this may have been limited to experience with the CBA and IBL, but I doubt it.
5. Bad Citizens as Players.
6. Shenanigans of ABA, Moose Lewis, AAPBL and others.

This is just what I came up with off the top of my head.

[TEN]

Skippy...Can't disagree with any of your points...

[Tha Man*]

Nor can I disagree .. i would add

Old IBL - Ralph Rossi Jr.

[skippy]

Yes, I meant the old IBL, I have yet to see the "new" IBL.


Just another tidbit I thought of that may be where baseball succeeds and basketball fails :
the lack of appropriate marketing to the female gender and children.

As we all know, the women of the world control our wallets.
Get them, and the men HAVE to go.

[UMBAUGH]

I think that minor league basketball and arena football have the same problem in that sense. The atmosphere is much different in an arena then outdoors. Perhaps the CBA should look at the marketing and advertising of the AFL and try something like that, making it more fan/family friendly affordable entertainment. And Gary specifically needs to market better. I don't know how to even get a steelheads t-shirt for pet's sake! That's missing out on some money right there.

[nksports]

Another factor is $$$$. A lot of minor league baseball parks you can get into the cheap seats for around $5 to $7. A box seat may go for $10 to $15 at most. Most minor league basketball tickets are (at least) twice that and owners wonder why only a few hundred people show up per game.