Only Five Teams....Again...in 2011

[Sam Hill]

Yes, really growing wonderfully.

http://uflaccess.com/uflaccess/united-football-league-confirms-five-team-line-up-for-2011-season/

[Aaronhere]

Yes, really growing wonderfully.

http://uflaccess.com/uflaccess/united-football-league-confirms-five-team-line-up-for-2011-season/

As opposed to the USFL, which grew too fast from 1983 (12 teams) to 1984 (18 teams)? As opposed to the ABA, which grew to....300 teams? :)

I would rather the league solidify its existing franchises, before adding bad, underfunded expansion teams. The UFL does not need a San Antonio Gunslingers.

[Sam Hill]

Point is...they've said they were going to get to six (which is not a huge number) this year. They didn't. And they lost a market.

And it's not like anyone outside of Omaha and Sacramento are doing fabulously.

It's not like it's USFL or UFL and nothing in-between. This isn't 1984. The UFL is absolutely not as healthy as it claims it is, and the notion that they're trying to nurture the five they have is ridiculous. They can't find people who want to buy teams - because it's business insanity.

Even the guy who WAS buying in - Joe Theismann, who's crazy as a ****house mouse - bailed.

This league simply isn't long for this world, and no one's taking it seriously at a fiscally-responsible five teams. That's not a league, that's an exhibition.

[lams712]

Yep, this is NOT good. This was supposed to be the "breakthrough" year, the schedule was moved up, they were supposed to have 6 teams (Heck, they were even floating 8 teams by this time, remember that!?!), instead it's five teams, a lawsuit by Mark Cuban, a loss of a coach to be the Bengals OC, ETC., etc., etc.

I think this league is in deep doo-doo, and it's a shame. I actually like this league and believe the quality of play to be VERY GOOD.

[nksports]

a loss of a coach to be the Bengals...

That is a demotion.

[preeths]

The commissioner's comments to the Las Vegas paper confirm the challenges the league faces:
http://www.lvrj.com/sports/huyghue-ufl-plans-to-play-pay-115863839.html

[Sam Hill]

Wow, that's remarkable candor from a guy who, in the past, would have said a nuclear explosion was a great opportunity to work on your tan.

All I know is, when they start talking about how much you've lost and you put a timeframe on when everybody's supposed to be paid, you start sounding like Chris Hemmeter.

[preeths]

The hole is only getting deeper, and the league's counting on a TV deal being realized out of the NFL labor impasse to slow the descent. Frankly, I can't imagine the scenario that would lead a TV partner to pony up significant cash for the coming season, much less into the future.

[Trish_lvs_Baltimore]

Do you guys see this league lasting another 5 years?

[tops804]

Do you guys see this league lasting another 5 years?

...No.

I would be very surprised if they can complete another season. Too many
indications of the WFL model in 1975. Plus I believe they either want to
be tied to the NFL or in a better way due to an NFL strike, neither of which
would ever happen.

[preeths]

Do you guys see this league lasting another 5 years?
Honestly, I think playing in 2011 may be a stretch without some major development (think additional revenue or NFL tie). Sure, they've "committed" to a 2011 season, but what does that mean? Only that they're not pulling the plug now. They still have 2010 bills to pay before 2011 expenses start to pile up. I hope I'm wrong, but nothing that's happened since the end of the season points to long-term viability, even less short-term success.

[Sam Hill]

Do you guys see this league lasting another 5 years?

I think it will last three more seasons.

This winter, this spring and this fall.

/old joke

[Shootmaster_44]

Do you guys see this league lasting another 5 years?

I don't unless the NFL partners with them. The league seems like a dichotomy, on one hand they seem to want to challenge the NFL with the transfer fee and the dream of signing late round draft picks. On the other hand they seem to be happy being a minor league with talk that they would be interested in investigating a partnership with the NFL as a D-League. I think they need someone to develop a roadmap.

If they want to be the USFL, then go for it. Get the financial backers and make a splash. Take a page from the WHA and owners can pool their money and go after one big fish. Bobby Hull was paid by the league initially, not the Jets. If they can convince a few large name NFL free agents to come over to the league, it gives them legitimacy. Then more players might listen to their contract offers.

If they want to be the WLAF, quit restricting the NFL taking players. Figure out a deal with the NFL. The CFL received some financial support and some NFL help with things like game production, marketing etc. In exchange, the CFL made all contacts have an option year (so a typical CFL contract is 1 and an option year), the option would lock players into the next CFL season on February 15. So from January 1 to February 14, CFL option year players could sign with a NFL team and the CFL would retain his rights if he were cut from that NFL team. This always caused a bit of problems for teams when a player would be cut in September after Week 8 or 9 of the CFL season. Now they got Star X back, but he may no longer have a place on their team. Regardless, the UFL needs to work with the NFL this way if they want to be the WLAF.

Either way, the reason they are floundering is because of the wishy-washy direction the league is heading. Pick a path and stick to it or at least if the USFL is the route they want to go, try it and if it fails (and the league isn't dead yet), transition to the WLAF. However, I think the biggest problem was the stupid soft launch in 2009. The reason we are in Year 3 and only Las Vegas remains from Year 1 is because of this. Isn't of sinking tons of money into marketing and attempting to get fans out, they relied on word of mouth. Granted, they didn't have a built-in infomercial like the XFL did in WWF programming, but I mean if Vince McMahon can get a league to grace the cover of Sports Illustrated after Week 1 and have NBC show games, certainly the backers of the UFL could have done this.

I mean with the XFL the nearest team to me was Chicago and that is a 3 or 4 hour flight from me. Yet, I could walk into all my local sports stores and buy XFL merchandise months in advance of the season. This is Year 3 of the UFL and I still can't find merchandise in sports stores here. Heck, they aren't even on Canadian TV. The XFL was on The Score and highlights were even shown on Sportscentre. I can't even see half the UFL games and can only see the HDNet games because I subscribe to an expensive cable package. Most Canadians don't have this channel or have no idea that it exists.

[Sam Hill]

(That should have read "This spring, this summer and this fall." I suck.)

Anyway...


If they want to be the USFL, then go for it. Get the financial backers and make a splash. Take a page from the WHA and owners can pool their money and go after one big fish. Bobby Hull was paid by the league initially, not the Jets.

And you do know that was in 1972, right?

If they can convince a few large name NFL free agents to come over to the league, it gives them legitimacy. Then more players might listen to their contract offers.

And if my mom had two wheels, she might be a Segway.

"A few large name NFL free agents?"

This isn't 1983 anymore. You're NEVER going to convince "a few large name NFL free agents" to come to a five-team league - or even a ten-team league - that can't get its act together. Better to make $2M in the NFL and...you know, BE in the NFL than get promised $10M in the UFL. Because if no one in the NFL is willing to give a guy $10M, the UFL would be incredibly stupid to give him $10M.

Unless you were going to drop, conservatively, $200M on a new football league, you'd have NO chance of getting even marginally-recognizable guys who could still play to come to your league, and even then it would be a struggle. A guy in his prime? No frigging way.

Won't happen. The NFL can pay ridiculous money because of its TV revenue. And anyone who would have the money to really mount a serious challenge to the NFL would be (besides an idiot) would just buy into an NFL team. Safer investment.

if Vince McMahon can get a league to grace the cover of Sports Illustrated after Week 1 and have NBC show games, certainly the backers of the UFL could have done this.

Could have done what? Gotten on the cover of SI? Or had NBC show games?

First off, the XFL was ten years ago. TEN YEARS AGO. The sports TV landscape has changed a bit since then. So, no, "certainly" the UFL owners could NOT have achieved this. Nobody even knows who the hell they ARE. Had Mark Cuban followed through and owned a team, that might have been mildly interesting to people and might have gotten them some play. But Bill Hambrecht? Paul Pelosi? Not even the Speaker of the House, the HUSBAND of the Speaker of the House? Who cares?

I mean with the XFL the nearest team to me was Chicago and that is a 3 or 4 hour flight from me. Yet, I could walk into all my local sports stores and buy XFL merchandise months in advance of the season. This is Year 3 of the UFL and I still can't find merchandise in sports stores here.

In their defense, at least there IS a Year 3 of the UFL. How did having XFL merchandise in your local sports stores help them, exactly? I have an XFL sweatshirt around here somewhere. So what? It's dead. At the end of the day, it's dead.

So what you're saying is they should have done everything the XFL did. Except for the whole "being dead after 12 months" part.

Heck, they aren't even on Canadian TV. The XFL was on The Score and highlights were even shown on Sportscentre. I can't even see half the UFL games and can only see the HDNet games because I subscribe to an expensive cable package. Most Canadians don't have this channel or have no idea that it exists.

Are you Canadian?

Well guess what? I don't think they really give a damn if YOU can see the games.

[Shootmaster_44]

And you do know that was in 1972, right?

Yes but the principle remains the same. If you pool your resources and attract some larger name talent, you can grow.

"A few large name NFL free agents?"

This isn't 1983 anymore. You're NEVER going to convince "a few large name NFL free agents" to come to a five-team league - or even a ten-team league - that can't get its act together. Better to make $2M in the NFL and...you know, BE in the NFL than get promised $10M in the UFL. Because if no one in the NFL is willing to give a guy $10M, the UFL would be incredibly stupid to give him $10M.

Unless you were going to drop, conservatively, $200M on a new football league, you'd have NO chance of getting even marginally-recognizable guys who could still play to come to your league, and even then it would be a struggle. A guy in his prime? No frigging way.

Won't happen. The NFL can pay ridiculous money because of its TV revenue. And anyone who would have the money to really mount a serious challenge to the NFL would be (besides an idiot) would just buy into an NFL team. Safer investment.

Right, but if you listen to the league talk at times they want to be the USFL. So if this is where they want to be they have to stop being the WLAF and start at least attempting to bring in bigger name NFL talent. Especially since it is likely that this season they will be the only professional, outdoor football playing in the United States.

Could have done what? Gotten on the cover of SI? Or had NBC show games?

First off, the XFL was ten years ago. TEN YEARS AGO. The sports TV landscape has changed a bit since then. So, no, "certainly" the UFL owners could NOT have achieved this. Nobody even knows who the hell they ARE. Had Mark Cuban followed through and owned a team, that might have been mildly interesting to people and might have gotten them some play. But Bill Hambrecht? Paul Pelosi? Not even the Speaker of the House, the HUSBAND of the Speaker of the House? Who cares?

Being on the cover of SI could have happened. The league shouldn't have had a soft launch. You go hard and aggressive with marketing and get your name out there. The UFL's debut didn't even do that. From all accounts, they barely marketed in their team's home markets before their opening game.

In their defense, at least there IS a Year 3 of the UFL. How did having XFL merchandise in your local sports stores help them, exactly? I have an XFL sweatshirt around here somewhere. So what? It's dead. At the end of the day, it's dead.

So what you're saying is they should have done everything the XFL did. Except for the whole "being dead after 12 months" part.

From all accounts the XFL was all set up and ready to go for year 2, but Vince McMahon pulled the plug. It was a complete shock to their entire front offices according to books I have read from people who worked for the teams. It wasn't killed because of money nor anything else, but the fact that NBC decided not to show games the next season. UPN was willing and from what I understand there were offers from some other cable networks to pick up games. But it was decided that it was NBC or bust in Vince's mind.

However, the marketing, merchandising and promotion is exactly what the UFL should have done. Instead, they are happy to quietly go along and barely make a peep in the sports scene. My point about the merchandise being available in the local sports store is that the XFL was trying to get people talking about it. The UFL on the other hand seems to be happy with new teams every year and trying not to develop a national and international fanbase. Outside of Omaha (and perhaps Sacramento), I think you'd be hard pressed to find people who can name the teams in the league, let alone players.

Are you Canadian?

Well guess what? I don't think they really give a damn if YOU can see the games.

If that is the case, then why are they talking European expansion? If you have a possible built in fanbase and possibly a larger casual audience in Canadians since there are more former CFL players in the league, then why expand to Europe?

There is money to be made from Canadians and every successful major league has realized that. Ergo, you need to market toward Canadians as well. It doesn't have to be much aside from putting games on TV. Based on the garbage that the sports networks have on here, I doubt you'd have to try hard to get on TV here.

Again, the direction of the league seems to be wishy-washy. If it wants to be a small league in the vein of the IFL or other regional indoor leagues, great. Then quit trying to be more. If you want to be a league like the USFL, XFL etc., great. Then do something to put yourself in that place. That was my point.

The UFL only has itself to blame for the sorry financial state it is now. The problems began before the initial kickoff and nothing seems to have changed.

[Sam Hill]

Yes but the principle remains the same. If you pool your resources and attract some larger name talent, you can grow.

These guys don't have the resources to pull the talent they have now. They've lost a jillion dollars and it would take a kabillion more to pull off what you're talking about.

Football is a team game, with 50 players, and one individual player can't make the impact a Bobby Hull can. You could have signed Michael Vick when he was coming out of prison and was damaged goods, but there's no guarantee he would have been a godsend to the league. And you couldn't afford him now.

How much do you think, realistically, it would take to sign a guy even as good as Chad Pennington? And do you think you're going to get a guy as high on the totem pole as Bobby Hull was?

I'm sorry, no, the principle may be the same, but you can't pull it off in 2011. Not in this sport. Not with this league.


Right, but if you listen to the league talk at times they want to be the USFL.

Point me to where they've said this.

So if this is where they want to be they have to stop being the WLAF and start at least attempting to bring in bigger name NFL talent. Especially since it is likely that this season they will be the only professional, outdoor football playing in the United States.


With up to two games a freaking weekend. So, really, THAT'S going to get it done?

Got news for you: in the absence of the NFL (if that happens), they won't be watching one of the two UFL games that weekend. They'll be watching one of the jillion college games on TV that weekend.

Being on the cover of SI could have happened.

You say that as if it's so simple. How could it have happened? Herschel Walker got on the cover - but Herschel Walker was the dominant figure in college football and his unprecedented signing as an underclassman with a new league and in the country's biggest TV market was big, big news. The UFL doesn't even have a team in New York or a big market. Welcome to Omaha.

The league shouldn't have had a soft launch.

Easy to say that now. Their execution in that regard was worse than the actual idea, but it's hard to say it hurt anything. They did actually learn some things from it. Their problem was making more of a big deal of it than it really was.

You go hard and aggressive with marketing and get your name out there.

I'd love to hear more about your plan.

The UFL's debut didn't even do that. From all accounts, they barely marketed in their team's home markets before their opening game.

They did a crap job of marketing because these people don't know what they're doing. In any regard. Huyghue is in over his head, they went on the cheap, they had no idea what it would take to launch a league (even leaving the economy out of it) and they made nearly every wrong decision you can make.


From all accounts the XFL was all set up and ready to go for year 2, but Vince McMahon pulled the plug. It was a complete shock to their entire front offices according to books I have read from people who worked for the teams. It wasn't killed because of money nor anything else, but the fact that NBC decided not to show games the next season.

So that's not "because of money?" NBC was an equity partner in the league. They pulled out. They were gone. Donezo.

And even then, they were prepared to go it without NBC but when UPN wanted to cut WWE Raw from two hours to 90 minutes as a condition of the deal, McMahon recognized where his core business was and wasn't going to let that get messed with.

I'm sure the people who worked for the teams were shocked. Because it wasn't their money involved. The decision happened above their paygrade.

And given the league's losses in Year 1, given the ridicule it got as the season went on, there is no way Year 2 would have been anything but an unmitigated disaster. Granted, fewer people would have seen it as it wouldn't have been on NBC, but there's no way that league was going to see a third year.

UPN was willing and from what I understand there were offers from some other cable networks to pick up games. But it was decided that it was NBC or bust in Vince's mind.

You should go back and read "Long Bomb" again, then, if that's how you remember it. Because I just pointed out what UPN wanted to do in exchange for showing the games. When NBC pulled out, McMahon said he was prepared to go on without them and VP Basil Devito said they'd continue on UPN and TNN. So, no, it was not "NBC or bust in Vince's mind." You're wrong.

However, the marketing, merchandising and promotion is exactly what the UFL should have done.

Again...how did it work out for the XFL?

How did it work out for the XFL? You keep holding up them up as a shining example of what they should have done when they lost millions upon millions and were a national joke.


My point about the merchandise being available in the local sports store is that the XFL was trying to get people talking about it.

"People talking about it" worked for a couple of weeks. At some point, you have to present a product worth not only talking about but consuming, and the XFL didn't do that. Did you see their opening night ratings and buzz when millions sampled the product?

The product sucked. Given the wide gulf between the expectations pumped up by Vince McMahon and what was actually delivered, people mocked them openly and basically poisoned the brand.

The UFL on the other hand seems to be happy with new teams every year and trying not to develop a national and international fanbase. Outside of Omaha (and perhaps Sacramento), I think you'd be hard pressed to find people who can name the teams in the league, let alone players.

But if they had merchandise in your local sports store, that would all change?


If that is the case, then why are they talking European expansion?

Because almost every league in the history of ever has said that. You try to make yourself look bigger and bolder than you are in hopes of attracting investors and buzz.

Right now, when they're bleeding out on the sidewalk, worrying about whether Canadians can see them on TV is not exactly a high priority.

If you have a possible built in fanbase and possibly a larger casual audience in Canadians since there are more former CFL players in the league, then why expand to Europe?

Why would Canadians like the UFL more than Americans? What does "possible built in fanbase" mean? Canada has a tenth of the population of the United States. Why on Earth would you believe that former CFL players playing in a low-rent league in the states would be a draw?

There is money to be made from Canadians and every successful major league has realized that.

Which is why Major League Baseball has half as many Canadian teams as it had 10 years ago. Which is why the NBA has half as many Canadian teams as it had ten years ago. Which is why the NHL has fewer Canadian teams than it did 15 years ago. Only MLS has more Canadian teams than it did at launch.

Ergo, you need to market toward Canadians as well.

So, wait...they didn't market in their local team markets and that was bad...now you want to them to focus on Canadians as well? And further extend their resources? Great plan.

It doesn't have to be much aside from putting games on TV. Based on the garbage that the sports networks have on here, I doubt you'd have to try hard to get on TV here.

Maybe the Canadian TV execs don't agree with you that ex-CFLers would be a big draw?


The UFL only has itself to blame for the sorry financial state it is now. The problems began before the initial kickoff and nothing seems to have changed.

That's true. But your other points are largely nonsense.

[jwalters]

The xfl did a good job getting there name out there but as far as marketing they made two easy to spot mistakes. First, they made it all about sex and violence. Rednecks that go to wwe events which usually average about 15,000 or even 20,000 in house may like that stuff but most actual sports fans do not. At least not when it is time for a game. Hell, I have said this before, I will forego sex to watch college football. The second mistake was wasting money on things that added nothing to the overall football experience. There was the incredible expense of retro fitting stadiums to include the gigantic video boards which didnt show anything that you cant see on a standard video board. There was also the wasted expenses on cheerleaders. Each xfl team paid cheerleaders $1,000 per week. 10 girls equals $10,000 per week. With eight teams and a ten week season the league spent $800,000 just to pay cheerleaders. The Nashville Kats paid girls $15 per game and the Baltimore Blast just give girls free tanning and gym membership. Those cheerleaders look just as hot to me. Point is $800,000 is still a lot of money. Does anyone think the UFL has even spent $800,000 in total marketing expenses in 2+ seasons? No. The xfl spent too much good money going after bad and the ufl hasnt really tried.

[jwalters]

I just remembered that the average amout that each afl team was spending on start up apparatus such as nets, dasher pads, and turf, prior to the restructuring, was around $120,000. I will bet dollars to doughnuts that each xfl stadium costs more than that to fit with the video boards. So that is at least another one million in wasted money.

[wasteland]

you can't compare the XFL and UFL. The XFL had the WWE marketing and distribution machine behind it along with NBC (not to meantion the deep pockets and access to mainstream TV time).

[jwalters]

It isnt really a comparison. The leagues are a contrast in approaches. The xfl had a clear defined goal of being an alternate league that did not compete but instead exited independent. They spent money on the marketing and entertainment end of things while keeping salaries relatively low. The ufl spends no money on advertising and does not have a clear defined goal. They are tending to advertise themeselves as alternative but they sign only nfl style players and they seem to be hoping to be a developmental league because they brag about player callups. They are basically just NFL Light. I think the most glaring contrast though is that the xfl averaged 23,000 fans per game with upwards of 35,000 showing up in San Fransisco. The ufl averages roughly 10,000 per game with highs of just under 24,000 in Omaha. The xfl suffered because of a poor approach to the game of football while the ufl suffers from a poor approach to the business of football.

[logoguru]

Only a Ted Turner type will be able to save it.
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