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The Magician
11-13-2010, 11:48 AM
Jacksonville announced new name and players signing.
http://www.usbasket.com/ABA/basketball.asp?NewsID=208423

On yesterday, November 10, the Jacksonville ABA owner Ron Sholes and Head Coach Kevin Waters announced the team name of their franchise at the City Hall Pub. The team will be named Jacksonville Giants ...

Jacksonville ABA
http://www.jacksonvillegiants.com/

It's nice that they are scheduled to play at Veterans Memorial Arena for 15 Home games...

But yet again, this is the ABA :eek: = DOOM!

The Sweeper
11-13-2010, 12:59 PM
And yet, in the link to the team site, it says 'Jacksonville Jazz'.

ABARedWhiteBlue
11-13-2010, 06:48 PM
and note that even though this attention hound 'announced' his new name at a "press conference" on Wednesday, they have yet to put the news or change the name on their (free) website as of Saturday.

Also, interesting that the release names "the first two players signed - even though the team's own site says they "signed Jason Bennett and Jermaine Bell as the first two players on his 2010-2011 roster Nov. 4."

Ridiculous....

and typical...

The Sweeper
11-14-2010, 06:39 AM
And I wonder how much this cost them...

http://i714.photobucket.com/albums/ww145/Sweeper43/1289737991.jpg

The Magician
11-14-2010, 03:16 PM
Ya think there's $10K in that briefcase ??? :infun:

TEN
11-14-2010, 11:09 PM
That's a fine representation of the players and coaches on their road trip trying to thumb a ride....

ABA_TampaBay
11-15-2010, 11:38 AM
Gotta give the team props for at least trying. That sign represents more money spent in advertising than most teams have budgets after coughing up Joe fees.

ClearChannel billboards are not that cheap ($3-12K for four weeks depending on size and placement).

LightningMan
11-15-2010, 12:15 PM
Gotta give the team props for at least trying. That sign represents more money spent in advertising than most teams have budgets after coughing up Joe fees.

ClearChannel billboards are not that cheap ($3-12K for four weeks depending on size and placement).
I'm hip. I remember giving the West Virginia Blazers credit for having a billboard up along I-77 back in the day.

runninref
11-15-2010, 02:07 PM
Not buying it. No way are they paying for that billboard! While in the WBA they couldn't afford uniforms, roadtrips, anything. Yes they folded and eventually resurfaced as an ABA team and changed the name. I will say this, the last time an ABA team played in Jax, it was first class (at least for a year). The prePBL Jam had it going on. Averaged around 2 to 3k per game, had multiple levels of entertainment. Games were played at UNF ... it was an event. Don't know what happened to them when they moved to the PBL. I will say this, their first game in the PBL didn't have near the marketing money spent as their last game in the ABA. Maybe by then they were short on funds. And I digress.:mrgreen:

The Sweeper
11-15-2010, 04:06 PM
Ya think there's $10K in that briefcase ??? :infun:

Since the briefcase is coming back to Jacksonville (probably via Indianapolis), I don't think there is even oxygen left inside it since Joe snatched the money out of it so fast.

formerlyknownasfells
11-16-2010, 10:47 PM
Sweep,

I honestly thought you were joking about the billboard until I passed it on I-95 this afternoon. I swear, I started laughing so hard I thought I was going to have to pull over.

ABA_TampaBay
11-17-2010, 12:54 PM
Not buying it. No way are they paying for that billboard! While in the WBA they couldn't afford uniforms, roadtrips, anything. Yes they folded and eventually resurfaced as an ABA team and changed the name. I will say this, the last time an ABA team played in Jax, it was first class (at least for a year). The prePBL Jam had it going on. Averaged around 2 to 3k per game, had multiple levels of entertainment. Games were played at UNF ... it was an event. Don't know what happened to them when they moved to the PBL. I will say this, their first game in the PBL didn't have near the marketing money spent as their last game in the ABA. Maybe by then they were short on funds. And I digress.:mrgreen:
OK then, explain to me who IS paying for it? That is a ClearChannel board, costs some serious $$$ and CC is not a company that is fond of donating some of their un-rented space to promo the ABA or anyone else for that matter.

You know that Joe or the league isn't coughing up the bucks so who do you suspect has the fat wallet? :confused:

Paul S
11-17-2010, 06:07 PM
You know that Joe or the league isn't coughing up the bucks so who do you suspect has the fat wallet? :confused:

Don't take this the wrong way.........................but probably another well intentioned person who has delusions/illusions of building a real team, maybe an arena, maybe a whole division, maybe even taking over the actual league......someone like that.

The Sweeper
11-18-2010, 07:55 AM
Sweep,

I honestly thought you were joking about the billboard until I passed it on I-95 this afternoon. I swear, I started laughing so hard I thought I was going to have to pull over.

I'd never joke about something like that. At least every word was spelled right. I'd hate to see what a billboard from the Gwizz would look like.

The Sweeper
11-28-2010, 03:01 PM
Got a good laugh from this...

http://www.jacksonvillegiants.com/news.aspx

"I tell the teams, ‘Don't become Ruth's Chris Steak House, for God's sake. You are McDonald's,' ” he said. "You have to remember, there's as much honor in being Target or Walmart as there is in being Saks or Burberry. If you root yourself properly and market properly for the masses, give them quality sports and entertainment at affordable prices, they will beat a path to your door.”

Fits right into Joe's philosophy.

Getting into the game
A look at how much Jacksonville Giants owner Ron Sholes has invested in his basketball franchise.
— $250,000: Sholes' obligation to the Jacksonville Veterans Memorial Arena
— $10,000: Market reservation fee assessed by the league
— $5,000 to $10,000: Each player's salary per season. There are 12 men on the team and three alternates.
— "Several hundred thousand” dollars in merchandising costs, Sholes said.
Source: Staff research

Sounds like he's sunk about half a million into this. Can I have some of what he's smoking?

a1sports
11-28-2010, 04:04 PM
A con and those three letters A B A.....does hypnotize a lot of people into forking over 10K.

why not take the Great 8 tournament also?

But here is SE texas problem....Joe has found a new well.....so the update as of 11/28/2010 >>> Jacksonville will win the ABA rec league title !!

The Sweeper
11-28-2010, 04:59 PM
Well, if you look at their season ticket page...

http://www.jacksonvillegiants.com/Season_tickets.aspx

Looks like the guarantee a playoff game...

"Season Ticket package includes 15 home games and 1 PLAYOFF game so you won't miss any of the action. That's 16 games with high scoring rim rattling basketball."

ABARedWhiteBlue
12-02-2010, 07:57 PM
http://www.jaxobserver.com/2010/12/02/pro-basketball-in-jacksonville-a-giant-challenge/

Well, at least this time the article at least touches on the repeated failures of this league - although the history is treated more as a nuisance than reality. And, we get the added bonus of the obligatory Joe Newman posterior smoke-blowing:
Pro-Basketball in Jacksonville a ‘Giant’ Challenge
by Darcy G. Richardson,
Ron Sholes hopes to succeed where others have failed when the Jacksonville Giants, the ABA’s newest and most promising franchise, take to the floor against the visiting San Francisco Rumble at 8 p.m. on Dec. 4.

Sholes, a local attorney and owner of City Hall Pub, a restaurant and bar located next to Jacksonville Veterans Memorial Arena where the Giants will play their fifteen home games and a possible playoff game later this year, is confident that his basketball franchise will be different than those in the past.

“We’re going to be different than those others in that we’re playing at a quality site in the arena, and our games will be on TV,” Sholes said during a press conference on October 20. “We’re going to make this an exciting game-day experience for the fans, very similar to what the Jacksonville Sharks did with their fans this year. It will be affordable entertainment with a family atmosphere, with tickets priced as low as $4 per game.”

Having already landed the ABA All-Star game on February 26 while ambitiously striving to bring an NBA franchise to Jacksonville within a decade, Sholes is certainly putting his money where his mouth is. The personal injury lawyer isn’t skimping on his latest venture and his lavish marketing campaign for Jacksonville’s newest minor-league team, consisting of extensive print and radio advertisements, is starting to pay off, quickly becoming the envy of the league.

“We’re very impressed by what Ron Sholes and his organization have been able to do in a relatively short period of time,” Joe Newman, the ABA’s chief executive officer, told the Jacksonville Observer in a recent interview.

“He’s assembled a capable organization,” continued Newman, pointing to the fact that Jacksonville beat out several other cities, including Chicago, Las Vegas and San Antonio, in being awarded the league’s All-Star game in February.

“He’s obviously doing something right,” said Newman.

Billed as “the largest pro sports league in the world” while tailoring itself after the original ABA, a league that invented the three-point shot and featured a red, white and blue ball for nine consecutive seasons from 1967-1976, the re-born American Basketball Association plans to field as many as 58 teams this year, including seven traveling teams that will play abbreviated schedules.

Team Haiti, a traveling squad based in Miami, hopes to raise awareness and aid for that earthquake-devastated nation in ABA arenas throughout the country this season. Team Haiti will play the Giants at Veterans Memorial Arena on December 5, a day after the season opener against the San Francisco Rumble.

Despite the league’s shaky reputation — the ABA played only 38 percent of its scheduled games during the disastrous 2007-2008 season and more than 175 teams have folded, were kicked out, or joined another league since its inception ten years ago, some without playing a single game — Newman is convinced that Sholes can make a realistic go of it.

In fact, the lawyer-turned-entrepreneur’s massive marketing effort already appears to be paying dividends. “Ticket sales have been brisk, especially the $4 tickets and the $64 season packages,” said Angel-Marie Ashley, the team’s amiable ticketing and marketing coordinator. “The response so far has been amazing.”

No effort is being spared. Buttressing the team’s print and radio marketing strategy, the Giants organization — players, staff and volunteers alike — handed out 10,000 flyers at a recent Jaguars game and have been taking part in promotional events throughout the city, including a successful Black Friday event at the St. Johns Town Center.

In addition to signing a $250,000 contract with SMG — the Philadelphia firm that oversees finances and operations at the city’s sports and entertainment venues — to play at Veterans Memorial Arena this winter, Sholes also secured a television contract with local cable station CW-17 to televise all of the team’s home games.

According to Joe Miller, the team’s marketing director, the Giants also plan to provide play-by-play radio coverage, but are still ironing out the details.

...

Skeptics Point to History of Failed Teams

Some people believe that professional hoops are destined for failure in Jacksonville, that the football-frenzied First Coast isn’t a bona fide basketball-friendly environment.

Times-Union sports columnist Gene Frenette is one of those skeptics, suggesting that investing heavily in a professional basketball team in Jacksonville “is roughly equivalent to buying a racehorse with an injured leg.” He might have a point.

Minor-league pro basketball teams in Jacksonville — ranging from the Hooters, Shooters and Barracudas from the now-defunct United States Basketball League (USBL) to the Jacksonville Jets of the Continental Basketball Association (CBA) and the Jacksonville Jam of the ABA — have generally lasted no more than a few years.

Some of them didn’t even survive an entire season, as was the case with the CBA’s Jacksonville Jets, a long-forgotten entity that abruptly moved to Biloxi, Mississippi, in early January 1987, about a month into the regular season after drawing an average of 216 fans per game.

Despite playing in a league even older than the NBA, one of their home games attracted only 48 paying customers.
...

The short-lived Jacksonville Jam lasted only one season in the current ABA and, of course, the ill-fated Slam, the team’s successor in the PBL, never played a game.

Some are predicting a similar fate for the Jacksonville Giants. “One and done,” say some of the doubters. Launching a professional basketball team in Jacksonville is next-to-impossible, they say, especially given the city’s recession-ravaged economy.


The Ingredients for Success

But the league’s co-founder and CEO begs to differ with the cynics and naysayers and vigorously defends the new Jacksonville franchise. “Jacksonville is a major league city. The people there love basketball as much as fans in any other major metropolitan market,” said Newman, who co-founded the American Basketball Association in 1999 with Richard P. Tinkham, a former executive with the Indiana Pacers, one of the original ABA’s premier organizations.

Tinkham, who played for Indiana’s DePauw University in the early 1950s and was instrumental in the NBA-ABA merger in 1976, currently serves as the ABA’s general counsel.


Team owner Ron Sholes
Newman,73, a former advertising executive who once owned the ABA’s Indiana Legends, a team that played at Butler University’s storied Hinkle Fieldhouse — the sixth oldest college basketball arena in the country — during its inaugural season in 2000-2001, said that he’s confident the Jacksonville franchise will be a success because of the top-flight organization that Sholes and Waters have been able to put together.

“They have all the ingredients for success,” asserted Newman.

Charles Jay, a former boxing promoter heavily involved in sports promotion and marketing, agrees. “There’s sort of a wild west quality to the ABA, making it fun and exciting to watch,” he said. “The quasi-freelance nature of the league allows individual owners like Sholes to be as creative as they want.”

“A little imagination and creativity could spell the difference between success and failure,” explained Jay, a longtime sports handicapper based in South Florida. “There are plenty of creative things that can be done with an ABA franchise,” he said, adding that he could see “the possibility of owners making money” in the league, particularly in under-served markets such as Jacksonville, where they’re not competing with an existing NBA team.

“The fans will support them if they’re given an attractive and exciting product,” he said.

That’s precisely what Ron Sholes and the Giants hope to provide.

formerlyknownasfells
12-02-2010, 08:12 PM
By the way, the Giants now have TV ads running. Again, laughter ensued.

robster2001
12-02-2010, 10:20 PM
Wonder how Sholes will feel when he's paying rent for the Veterans Memorial Coliseum on nights when there's no opponent...?

He's about to get a very painful reminder that a league is only as good as its weakest link... and the ABA has so many weak links... all attached to the wobbly post in Indianapolis...

zeke41
12-02-2010, 11:01 PM
So do we keep the Flight on stand-by for the inevitable no-shows coming? LOL

To be fair, I applaud the new Jax effort so far. Sholes is obviously passionate, and going at this with full steam. As for the WBA fiasco, I'm clueless as to what happened there, but it's nice to see Coach Waters get a solid re-do. I think I'll take a trip or two to see them play. I have a few former teammates playing for the team.

LightningMan
12-03-2010, 08:57 AM
So do we keep the Flight on stand-by for the inevitable no-shows coming? LOL
If you do, make sure you hammer home the check before you come and play.

To be fair, I applaud the new Jax effort so far. Sholes is obviously passionate, and going at this with full steam. As for the WBA fiasco, I'm clueless as to what happened there, but it's nice to see Coach Waters get a solid re-do. I think I'll take a trip or two to see them play. I have a few former teammates playing for the team.
You're a nice guy, dude.

runninref
12-03-2010, 01:03 PM
http://sportsbiznews.blogspot.com/2006/08/minor-sports-league-that-is-blight-on.html

Wonder if Ron Sholes read this before opting to host the "All Star" experience. Jacksonville may be the new Miami Pit Bulls.

nksports
12-03-2010, 02:33 PM
http://sportsbiznews.blogspot.com/2006/08/minor-sports-league-that-is-blight-on.html

Wonder if Ron Sholes read this before opting to host the "All Star" experience. Jacksonville may be the new Miami Pit Bulls.

Should be required reading for anyone ever thinking about starting a team in this league.
This quote really stands out:

"Hughes told The Los Angeles Times after a member of this short-lived team tore an Achilles' tendon during a game, the league-endorsed insurance plan didn't cover the injury, Hughes said."

Too bad the statute of limitations probably expired, but Hughes had a solid legal case that would probably have shut the league down right then and there.

ABA_TampaBay
12-03-2010, 11:50 PM
.....take to the floor against the visiting San Francisco Rumble.....
Call me skeptical but isn't that 3,000+ miles of travel expenses for the Rumble? Isn't this the league that has trouble getting teams to show up from 300 miles away?

I wish Sholes a lot of luck. He seems like a guy who really wants to make it work up there and as the article states he is putting his money where his mouth is. A billboard, TV contract and actual ads running, radio on the way? My, oh my. I just hope robster2001 is wrong and all scheduled teams show up to give him at least a fighting chance to make it.

robster2001
12-04-2010, 05:48 AM
I just hope robster2001 is wrong and all scheduled teams show up to give him at least a fighting chance to make it.

I wouldn't mind being wrong on this, either. It would be great if an ABA team was able to play its 15 (or so) home games on their originally scheduled dates against their originally scheduled opponents.

However, history shows that it's about as likely as snow in Jacksonville.

We'll see.

ABA_TampaBay
12-04-2010, 09:04 AM
Snow HAS fallen in Jacksonville and with climate change it could happen a lot more frequently. :D It takes money to make money and Mr. Sholes appears to have the former.

BTW, that's a lot of cabbage to rent out the Jacksonville Veterans Memorial Arena 15 times (16 when you add in the so-called All Star Game). That's $15,625 a date.

I'm not trying to be a buzzkill here but for a quarter mil he better have complete control over parking, concessions and ticket sales if there is any chance to get close to break-even and to be perfectly honest I don't know of any minor league basketball team (most especially an ABA franchise) that is in that ballpark as far as average revenue.

BTW, from the arena website: For the first time ever, Jacksonville will have its very own basketball team that will play in the Veterans Memorial Arena. Likewise, basketball fans will get to enjoy their team on television for the first time ever as CW17 has partnered with us to air all 15 regular and post-season home games.

It all starts December 4, 2010, when the 3rd ranked team in the ABA, the San Francisco Rumble, come to town! Jacksonville is also the home of the ABA All Star game this coming February! In short, Jacksonville now has the real opportunity to demonstrate that it is a "Basketball City!”
I wish Mr. Sholes a lot of luck.

formerlyknownasfells
12-04-2010, 02:53 PM
I am actually pondering going to the game tonight for the pure comedic value of it all. I wonder if SF is even going to show tonight.........

Sam Hill
12-04-2010, 03:32 PM
Oh, please do and take photos.

formerlyknownasfells
12-04-2010, 07:23 PM
Underway in Jacksonville. Decent crowd, (Hard to guess the number, but I would take a shot at over a thousand.) cheerleaders, the PA guy isn't horrible but in true ABA fashion, the Rumble showed up with only five players.

Oh, and the anthem singer was one of the WORST I have ever heard. I wonder if there will actually be stats on the Giants site or in the paper. Lord knows there won't be a thing on the ABA site.

14-10 Jacksonville at the first media time out. Yes, there is media as the game is being televised locally AND is on 1010 XL. (ESPN Radio)

formerlyknownasfells
12-04-2010, 08:05 PM
I cannot make this up....At the half--

Jacksonville 103
SF 51

COUNTLESS 3-D baskets, not many fouls and the officials are actually pretty good. The Giants are playing an up tempo offense and are pressing up a storm.

Apparently, the Rumble could not afford a few extra plane tickets as again they are playing with only five guys and they are out of gas.

kahunakats
12-04-2010, 08:19 PM
What's the size of the crowd?

formerlyknownasfells
12-04-2010, 09:54 PM
What's the size of the crowd?

It was not announced but was decent.

Jacksonville throttled SF 182-125.

kahunakats
12-04-2010, 10:46 PM
So, theoretically, if Jacksonville played Southeast Texas, the final would score would reach 400 points combined. Potentially, more points than fans.

tops804
12-04-2010, 10:52 PM
Underway in Jacksonville. Decent crowd, (Hard to guess the number, but I would take a shot at over a thousand.) cheerleaders, the PA guy isn't horrible but in true ABA fashion, the Rumble showed up with only five players.

Fells...You are doing a better service to us then ABAlive ever did...Maybe
Joe has room on the payroll for you after all. :mrgreen:

Oh, and the anthem singer was one of the WORST I have ever heard. I wonder if there will actually be stats on the Giants site or in the paper. Lord knows there won't be a thing on the ABA site.

If the paper even mentions the Giants, that would be a step up from most
ABA cities.

14-10 Jacksonville at the first media time out. Yes, there is media as the game is being televised locally AND is on 1010 XL. (ESPN Radio)

Another ABA rarity.


I cannot make this up....At the half--

Jacksonville 103
SF 51

COUNTLESS 3-D baskets, not many fouls and the officials are actually pretty good. The Giants are playing an up tempo offense and are pressing up a storm.

Apparently, the Rumble could not afford a few extra plane tickets as again they are playing with only five guys and they are out of gas.

With your sixth-man experience in Vermont, why didn't you ofter to suit up
for the Rumble? :D

It was not announced but was decent.

Jacksonville throttled SF 182-125.

The final score is a true testament as to how pathetic this league is. Why
is it that a team from Georgia can't show up in Jacksonville, but they manage
to get one to fly clear across three time zones for games?

Thanks for the updates. Since you were practically in the ABA's employ, it's too
bad you couldn't get in with a press pass...

wellington
12-05-2010, 01:03 PM
4000?

http://jacksonville.com/sports/basketball/2010-12-05/story/jacksonville-giants-romp-overwhelming-debut

formerlyknownasfells
12-05-2010, 03:36 PM
[QUOTE=wellington;146160]4000?

[url]

I wouldn't go that far. Maybe 2,500.

wellington
12-05-2010, 04:26 PM
Did the Orlando Kings play yesterday? It looks like their website is out of commission.

The Sweeper
12-05-2010, 04:33 PM
I cannot make this up....At the half--

Jacksonville 103
SF 51

COUNTLESS 3-D baskets, not many fouls and the officials are actually pretty good. The Giants are playing an up tempo offense and are pressing up a storm.

Apparently, the Rumble could not afford a few extra plane tickets as again they are playing with only five guys and they are out of gas.

Makes me wonder if the Jacksonville owner put up the money to have them flown in. Wasn't the Runble the team that had to forfeit a game in the Final 8 because they couldn't afford to travel?

wellington
12-05-2010, 04:40 PM
Makes me wonder if the Jacksonville owner put up the money to have them flown in. Wasn't the Runble the team that had to forfeit a game in the Final 8 because they couldn't afford to travel?

Why on earth did the owner of the Giants get involved with the ABA? At least play in a real league like the PBL or even the CBL.

Paul S
12-05-2010, 08:44 PM
Like everything else that is associated or in some way lumped in with the ABA.......this will end badly.

Whilst CEO Newman might think he can fool fans of the ABA with visiting teams arriving with 5 guys, the fans will see right through it..........its a matter of time

ABARedWhiteBlue
12-06-2010, 07:56 AM
http://jacksonville.com/sports/basketball/2010-12-06/story/jacksonville-giants-go-2-0-opening-weekend

Jacksonville Giants go 2-0 on opening weekend
New ABA team scores first 19 points of game in easy home victory.
Posted: December 6, 2010 - 1:02am
By The Times-Union
A few hours after the Jaguars jumped out to a 17-0 lead, the fledgling Jacksonville Giants actually had a faster start Sunday.

The Giants took a 19-0 lead and doubled up Team Haiti Relief 168-84 at Jacksonville Veterans Memorial Arena.

On the court, the Jacksonville Giants' first two games were a great success. The ABA team won its first two games by a combined 142 points.

The Giants (2-0) won their first game on Saturday night, a 182-124 romp over the San Francisco Rumble.

The Giants (2-0) led 12-0 after a 3-pointer by Antonio Lawrence and pushed it to 19-0 on a baseline jumper by Jermaine Bell.

The score was 28-2 after a three-point play by Renaldo Norman, and 39-6 after an alley-oop dunk by 7-footer Bell.

Team Haiti Relief, a barnstorming team based out of Miami that's playing a schedule entirely on the road, closed to 73-32 at halftime, but it was far too late to mount a serious charge.

The Giants stretched the lead to 122-58 after three quarters.

The Giants shot 58 percent from the floor and made 18 of 27 3-point shots.

The Giants' next home game is against Savannah on Sunday at 7 p.m. at the Veterans Memorial Arena.

robster2001
12-06-2010, 08:26 PM
Too many of this kind of rout will kill the Giants just as much as the expected missing teams will.

Who wants to pay to see one-sided basketball featuring people you've never heard of?

LightningMan
12-06-2010, 09:27 PM
Who wants to pay to see one-sided basketball featuring people you've never heard of?
Anyone going to a Harlem Globetrotter game? ;)

robster2001
12-07-2010, 06:07 AM
Anyone going to a Harlem Globetrotter game? ;)

At least those folks are paying for a brand name.

Sorry... let me be clear... they're paying for an untarnished brand name. :)

Paul S
12-07-2010, 06:48 PM
I'll give the guy in Jacksonville some credit. He has marketing, a team, a coach, a website, a plan and media coverage. In actuality he has everything a team needs.

Problem is, while HE is running an good team, its success is depending on the idiots, the dreamers, the ex-Ju-Co guys, the tricksters, the delusional, the Q's, the simple-simons, the do-gooders-for-the-community-with-no-money, the broke, the bankrupt, the I-blew-my-budget-sending-10K-to-Joe, the grifters, the blind, the newbies, the under financed, the ex-military-guys-blowing-through-danger-and-pension-pay, the hustlers, the clueless, the never-were's, the schemers, the has-beens, the stumblebums, the schucksters, the fools, the do-gooders and the nit-wits to actually pay for their team to show up and play him.

Sadly for him, the last good team would be one of the Tony Chase Music City Stars or more realistically the Halifax Rainmen.

It'll be interesting to see if he jumps ship to a real league, or the league collapses around him in a-typical ABA fashion and he is forced out.

Love Pro Hoops
12-07-2010, 11:24 PM
This guy is way to smart to be in this league,but scoring 183 points and the other team showing up with 5 players is just a joke,How did they afford to get there any way?? I think he really needs to be in the CBL next year,It would be better basketball,teams will show up,nba rules easy for fans to follow,it would make sense for travel as well, I just don't understand for him to be so smart why would he join the ABA???

nksports
12-08-2010, 01:39 PM
How did they afford to get there any way??

Was it really another team, or five guys at the rec center recruited the day of the game?

ABARedWhiteBlue
12-08-2010, 02:37 PM
Was it really another team, or five guys at the rec center recruited the day of the game?

That was my point in another thread; without actual box scores, we have no idea WHO wore the uniforms of the Rumble or Fuel, and if those players appear in any other games for those teams in other locations.

And yes, Turbo most likely will be able to dig up the info - but it is yet again an example where this league CEO craps the bed in not having such simple, basic information readily available.

The Sweeper
12-08-2010, 04:32 PM
I still think the Jacksonville owner paid for the Rumble to fly in. Either that, or he paid to have 5 uniforms flown in.

Love Pro Hoops
12-08-2010, 11:04 PM
Was it really another team, or five guys at the rec center recruited the day of the game?

They might have been rec center guys,A lot of teams in the ABA don't even pratice

nksports
12-08-2010, 11:58 PM
One of the first thing the better owners of this league learn is to keep the phone nos handy of any ex-college player in a 50-mile radius and a set of generic jerseys, just in case a team doesn't show up.

CHris902
12-09-2010, 12:23 AM
How did Jacksonville give up 125 points to five players who just flew across the country?

Paul S
12-09-2010, 08:25 PM
Actually Chris......that is a very good question. Either they 'saw the bigger picture' and kept it close, a'la a charity game where some former Pro players are playing the local fire or police department, or they really aren't that good.

ABA_TampaBay
12-10-2010, 06:41 PM
I suspect it was good old fashioned ABA basketball from an era gone by - all offense and no defense.

Listen, we (Sharks) played what is considered the best team in Mexico and twice went triple digits on them with a team that was only together a few weeks. I think once you get to this level of play (not NBA or upper tier FIBA) you have maybe one, possibly two guys who can spell defense much less know how to play it.

JMHO.

turbocamyes
12-17-2010, 06:38 PM
I wonder if there will actually be stats on the Giants site or in the paper.

On their Facebook page:

http://www.facebook.com/JacksonvilleGiants?v=wall&filter=2#!/photo.php?fbid=162246633818853&set=a.162246620485521.27775.155673087809541&pid=267708&id=155673087809541

Also, the claim that 182 pts is an ABA World Record is incorrect. The Detroit Panthers beat the Toldeo Ice 191-66 on 11/24/2006.

turbocamyes
12-17-2010, 07:14 PM
Was it really another team, or five guys at the rec center recruited the day of the game?

No, the photos on the Giants' Facebook page show at least 3 players on the Rumble roster: Cardell Butler (15), Isaiah Sandoval (24) and Devougn Lamont (21)

formerlyknownasfells
12-19-2010, 06:45 PM
Final from Jacksonville:

Giants: 154
Fayetteville: 91

Good crowd and again, Ron Shoales is doing things the right way. The marketing is good and the response has been strong. As much as I rip on Newman and the league, Ron is doing an amazing job here in Jacksonville.

tops804
12-19-2010, 06:55 PM
Final from Jacksonville:

Giants: 154
Fayetteville: 91

Good crowd and again, Ron Shoales is doing things the right way. The marketing is good and the response has been strong. As much as I rip on Newman and the league, Ron is doing an amazing job here in Jacksonville.

You said the same thing about the Frost Heaves...

...and we all know where they are now. :D

Seriously, how many ABA teams in ten years, have we been able to say this about?

Sam Hill
12-19-2010, 10:10 PM
Also, the claim that 182 pts is an ABA World Record is incorrect. The Detroit Panthers beat the Toldeo Ice 191-66 on 11/24/2006.

The fact that you know this frightens me.

turbocamyes
12-20-2010, 07:20 AM
The fact that you know this frightens me.

It’s in the database on the memory stick. When I die my wife will donate my organs to science and throw away the memory stick and all will be lost.

Minor League Man
01-02-2011, 07:46 PM
Earlier tonight the Giants set a scoring record, defeating the infamous Georgia Gwizzlies 206-102 (no, I am not making this up).

The score went so high that they had to go to single digits after 199:

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs784.ash1/167489_167801913263325_155673087809541_296617_1715 998_n.jpg

The Giants are a first-class organization...I hope they find a legit league for their next season! (The CBL has to be drooling to sign them for 2012)

Paul S
01-02-2011, 07:50 PM
Turbo would know this best, but I think that is an ABA (version 2.0) record. I believe the Detroit Dogs once scored 180 or 190 points, but 206 is definitely a record.

robster2001
01-02-2011, 08:31 PM
At what point do we think that Joe (and/or an influential owner with dreams of "winning" the leaque title) will trump up an excuse to run Jax off?

They're clearly too good -- they make the rest of Joe's suckers look bad by comparison, and we can't have that (it's bad for sales of market reservations)... and they're clearly too competitive (and are unlikely to forfeit a playoff game due to travel issues).

They outshine the ABA -- by such a large margin that they won't be allowed to survive.

So does it happen right before the Tournament of Survivors? Or sooner?

SK10171996
01-03-2011, 12:00 AM
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Bring-the-Jacksonville-Giants-to-the-NBA-D-League/166842646691967?v=wall

Doubt it'll happen, but you never know.

nksports
01-03-2011, 12:10 AM
Who was #22 for Jax?

Your team scores 206 points and you only manage to score 1? I'd be worrying about the waiver wire (or getting traded to the Gwizz for #40).

zeke41
01-03-2011, 02:40 AM
Earlier tonight the Giants set a scoring record, defeating the infamous Georgia Gwizzlies 206-102 (no, I am not making this up).

The score went so high that they had to go to single digits after 199:

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs784.ash1/167489_167801913263325_155673087809541_296617_1715 998_n.jpg

The Giants are a first-class organization...I hope they find a legit league for their next season! (The CBL has to be drooling to sign them for 2012)

I'd like to see them this year...make it 4 teams in Florida!

The Sweeper
01-03-2011, 07:11 AM
And according to this, the Gwizz got lost on the way to the arena.

http://jacksonville.com/sports/basketball/2011-01-02/story/jacksonville-giants-break-club-record-205-point-effort-against

The Magician
01-03-2011, 07:29 AM
And according to this, the Gwizz got lost on the way to the arena.

http://jacksonville.com/sports/basketball/2011-01-02/story/jacksonville-giants-break-club-record-205-point-effort-against

Surprised by the Gwizz ... No way :infun:!

turbocamyes
01-03-2011, 07:56 AM
Turbo would know this best, but I think that is an ABA (version 2.0) record. I believe the Detroit Dogs once scored 180 or 190 points, but 206 is definitely a record.

Yes, the Detroit Panthers beat Toledo 191-68 on 11/24/06. I have the day off so here's the Top Ten:

ID Date Visiting Team ID V Score Home Team ID H Score
1 11/24/2006 Toldeo Ice 66 Detroit Panthers 191
2 1/20/2008 San Diego Wildcats 180 Maywood Buzz 153
3 12/22/2005 Hawaii Mega Force 111 Gallup Talons 177
4 1/21/2007 Houston Takers 108 Monterrey Venom 173
4 1/18/2008 Bahama All Pro Show 99 Texas Tycoons 173
4 2/15/2009 New Jersey Stars 106 Jersey Express 173
7 11/11/2005 Kentucky Colonels 71 Nashville Rhythm 171
8 1/6/2006 Ohio Aviatars 97 Pittsburgh Xplosion 170
9 11/11/2007 Anderson Champions 79 Detroit Panthers 170
10 2/18/2007 Maryland Nighthawks 140 Cape Cod Frenzy 168

By Margin of Victory:

ID Date Visiting Team ID V Score Home Team ID H Score Margin
1 11/24/2006 Toldeo Ice 66 Detroit Panthers 191 125
2 11/11/2005 Kentucky Colonels 71 Nashville Rhythm 171 100
3 11/11/2007 Anderson Champions 79 Detroit Panthers 170 91
4 2/8/2009 Kentucky Travelers 65 Chicago Steam 153 88
5 1/25/2010 New Mexico Rim Rockers 72 SE Tex Mavericks 158 86
6 12/1/2005 Kansas City Knights 90 Lincoln Thunder 167 77
7 2/24/2007 Knoxville Noise 80 Detroit Panthers 156 76
8 1/18/2008 Bahama All Pro Show 99 Texas Tycoons 173 74
9 1/6/2006 Ohio Aviatars 97 Pitt Xplosion 170 73
10 1/7/2005 Colorado Storm 90 Ken Colonels 161 71
10 2/19/2010 Ft Benning All-Stars 82 Columbus Life 153 71

By Total Points:

ID Date Visiting Team ID V Score Home Team ID H Score Total Pts
1 1/20/2008 San Diego Wildcats 180 Maywood Buzz 153 333
2 11/29/2006 Texas Tycoons 163 Hou Undertakers 166 329
3 1/10/2009 Inland Empire 5Linx 157 Las Vegas Aces 158 315
4 1/26/2008 Maywood Buzz 152 Orange Co Gladitors 160 312
5 2/18/2007 Maryland Nighthawks 140 Cape Cod Frenzy 168 308
6 1/23/2010 Indiana Steamrollers 145 Lake Mich Admirals 162 307
7 11/24/2004 Long Beach Jam 149 Fresno Heatwave 156 305
7 11/20/2004 Los Angeles Stars 153 Herm Seris 152 305
7 1/22/2007 Detroit Panthers 163 Tol Royal Knights 142 305
9 2/24/2005 Ontario Warriors 160 Cent Valley Dawgs 133 293
9 2/29/2008 San Francisco Rumble 164 Maywood Buzz 129 293

Games in red are against non ABA or traveling teams.

formerlyknownasfells
01-03-2011, 12:51 PM
Here is the box score from last night's game:

http://jacksonvillegiants.com/game7.aspx

AlextheGreat
01-03-2011, 02:27 PM
In my opinion, at this point, the Giants are in a lose/lose in regards to leagues. Yes the ABA is not a good league for any team. I recently visited an Indiana Diesels game and came away and was very impressed. Went to the website and they had the box score up within an hour. Within a couple of days they had video from the game. However, their last three games have been canceled by their opponents. Hard to have a good season if all your games are cancelled.

So what are their options? The CBL? Maybe I am the only one less than impressed with this league so far. There champs from last season had reversible uniforms (I know it is just a jersey, but a pro team should at least have college level uniforms), most of the teams on their site seem dead. Outside of the Florida Flight and the Sea Dawgs are they still running? Not one team has a solid website. Lastly, do you really think they wouldn't beat the CBL teams by as much or more?

In my opinion, they should just play an independent schedule. Maybe offer the CBL or ABA a $5,000 buy in for the playoffs. Do you really think either league would not accept it?

LightningMan
01-03-2011, 03:31 PM
Lastly, do you really think they wouldn't beat the CBL teams by as much or more?
Yes.

The Gwizz are in their own special category of bad. Jacksonville might win the CBL, but they're not winning with a 200 point score. Wilmington actually plays defense, for one.

In my opinion, they should just play an independent schedule.
Why not the PBL?

AlextheGreat
01-03-2011, 04:14 PM
Yes.

The Gwizz are in their own special category of bad. Jacksonville might win the CBL, but they're not winning with a 200 point score. Wilmington actually plays defense, for one.

The Giants are not going to score 200 on the Mavs or a few other teams in the ABA either. However, they would hammer any team in the CBL (last season) by 40. Wilmington is very good at what they do but they did not even win the CBL. That is not a knock because I believe they do a great job in their community.

The Giant's seem to be doing things right. Why would they want to associate with leagues who do less. The CBL idea is great. However, every thing about them screams nonprofessional to me. Uniforms and nice websites are basic components of a sports program. This shows a lack of funding to me and could end disastrous.

[/QUOTE]Why not the PBL?[/QUOTE]

If I was the owner of the Giants I would not be interested in joining the PBL for the following reasons.

1. Geography- Not only would travel expenses go through the roof but there is no possible regional rivalries.

2. PBL History- I am an outsider and have never met anyone from the PBl. With that said, as an outsider, it seems that they bring in teams every year as sacrificial lambs. Every year they announce new teams and the following season they are gone. Why risk my franchise being that team.

3. Future of PBL- I don't think there is currently one league on solid foundation (besides the NBDL) and the PBL is no different. This off-season the PBL had about 20 different leaders come and go faster than Mike Haywood at Pitt. Several teams look doubtful to make it through the season and Sev "appears" ready to cut his losses.

LightningMan
01-04-2011, 12:12 AM
You know, I'd be more empathetic to your talk of underfunded CBL teams if your team, Jacksonville, wasn't playing in a league where an underfunded team that was kicked out of the CBL was one of their opponents.

AlextheGreat
01-04-2011, 01:09 AM
You know, I'd be more empathetic to your talk of underfunded CBL teams if your team, Jacksonville, wasn't playing in a league where an underfunded team that was kicked out of the CBL was one of their opponents.

Not sure how Jacksonville became "my team" seeing that I live in TN. However, a better question should be asked, how did a team get in the CBL and not have the money to make it half a season?

Your statement further proves my point. The CBL will take who ever takes them because they need the money. Not that they can't turn it around but in their current state they are not a pro-league.

All I stated was if I owned the Giants I would play an independent schedule and buy my way into a playoff. No league has enough stability right now.

I think the CBL could be nice if they scrap the teams who can't even afford uniforms. Get a decent league website and make the teams have nice sites. Show me one team with a decent website in that league. Even the Sea Dawgs site has gone down.

LightningMan
01-04-2011, 10:10 AM
The Giants seem to be doing things right. Why would they want to associate with leagues who do less?
Like the ABA.

LightningMan
01-04-2011, 10:13 AM
All I stated was if I owned the Giants I would play an independent schedule and buy my way into a playoff.
Because that's even possible. Right.
Show me one team with a decent website in that league. Even the Sea Dawgs site has gone down.
What exactly is your problem with Wilmington's website? Never mind. I don't want to know.

You come out of nowhere talking smack about a league that doesn't even play in your state and supporting a team you don't live anywhere near. You're not worth my time anymore. Good day.

formerlyknownasfells
01-04-2011, 11:49 AM
In my opinion, at this point, the Giants are in a lose/lose in regards to leagues. Yes the ABA is not a good league for any team. I recently visited an Indiana Diesels game and came away and was very impressed. Went to the website and they had the box score up within an hour. Within a couple of days they had video from the game. However, their last three games have been canceled by their opponents. Hard to have a good season if all your games are cancelled.

So what are their options? The CBL? Maybe I am the only one less than impressed with this league so far. There champs from last season had reversible uniforms (I know it is just a jersey, but a pro team should at least have college level uniforms), most of the teams on their site seem dead. Outside of the Florida Flight and the Sea Dawgs are they still running? Not one team has a solid website. Lastly, do you really think they wouldn't beat the CBL teams by as much or more?

In my opinion, they should just play an independent schedule. Maybe offer the CBL or ABA a $5,000 buy in for the playoffs. Do you really think either league would not accept it?

Alex,

When it comes to the CBL, you have to remember that we have only been in existence for one year with this being our second. Did we make our mistakes in year one? Of course we did. What first year business doesn't encounter a few bumps along the proverbial road?

Yes, we had our issues with the old Birmingham ownership and that of the Georgia Gwizzlies. Because of the issues we had with those owners, we made the decision to remove them from the CBL. Basically, we did the best we could to be proactive as opposed to reactive.

This year, things WILL change and those changes will be outlined in a release that will be sent to OSC, US Basket and be published on our website.

As far as the Jacksonville Giants are concerned, Ron Shoals is doing a tremendous job with his team. Ron is doing a great job of marketing, has a TV deal and the fans are really enjoying the entertainment provided at the games. The Giants are a model franchise not only for the ABA, but for the minor leagues as a whole.

Chris Munson
Continental Basketball League
Director of Media and Public Relations

AlextheGreat
01-04-2011, 02:51 PM
Like the ABA.

Ummmmm.......Didn't I say that they needed to break from the ABA? I believe I even cited another owner in the ABA who cannot succeed long term because of all the bad ABA teams.

AlextheGreat
01-04-2011, 02:58 PM
Because that's even possible. Right.

What exactly is your problem with Wilmington's website? Never mind. I don't want to know.

You come out of nowhere talking smack about a league that doesn't even play in your state and supporting a team you don't live anywhere near. You're not worth my time anymore. Good day.

Why is it not possible? Can a team not play an independent schedule? There are tons of traveling teams that do this all the time. I have no doubt that any decent team in the minors (not including the NBDL) would play the Giants if they called. It is clear by the attention that Chris Munson is giving them he is trying to get them to change leagues. Do you not think the CBL would schedule them in the hopes of getting them to move over. Do you really believe that the PBL teams would not play them.

I'm just stating the obvious. The Jacksonville team would be more successful as an independent team. That would be able to dictate who they play and not worry about canceled games. I don't believe anyone would argue that Joe, if not other leagues also, would let them play in the playoffs for 5k. Even let them host the games.

Your closing remarks just show a complete lack of maturity. I am not allowed to have an opinion on a team or league if they are not from my state? You can't form a good cross argument.....so goodbye? I don't know you but I bet that this is consistent with the rest of your post.

AlextheGreat
01-04-2011, 03:13 PM
Alex,

When it comes to the CBL, you have to remember that we have only been in existence for one year with this being our second. Did we make our mistakes in year one? Of course we did. What first year business doesn't encounter a few bumps along the proverbial road?

Yes, we had our issues with the old Birmingham ownership and that of the Georgia Gwizzlies. Because of the issues we had with those owners, we made the decision to remove them from the CBL. Basically, we did the best we could to be proactive as opposed to reactive.

This year, things WILL change and those changes will be outlined in a release that will be sent to OSC, US Basket and be published on our website.

As far as the Jacksonville Giants are concerned, Ron Shoals is doing a tremendous job with his team. Ron is doing a great job of marketing, has a TV deal and the fans are really enjoying the entertainment provided at the games. The Giants are a model franchise not only for the ABA, but for the minor leagues as a whole.

Chris Munson
Continental Basketball League
Director of Media and Public Relations


Let me start by saying I do believe the CBL product can work. I just don't believe in it's current state it can. The problem, in my opinion, is the league started before it had the capital to operate. I believe the leadership believed because it is better than the current options it OK to be lacking in several areas and that is not the case. You are now forced into a situation where you have to take any team that will have you.

I believe if y'all would have waited a year or two things would be much better. Now your top teams are Wilmington (which is a solid single A club), The Flight (who clearly have a hard on for the PBL), and Savannah (who wears reversible uniforms). If the league wants to be taken serious set standards. Make the teams get league uniforms, start all over on the websites, get some staff on full-time, and get a marketing plan in place.

In closing, I have no doubt that the CBL leadership are good people with good intentions. However, you are trying to sell you product to a skeptical nation. This nation has been scammed by various teams and leagues. If you want to win us you need to show a higher level of standards and expectations. The last thing we need is another memo of how things will be better. Just make them better.

Please don't take this offensive, I just think you are one of the few chances for basketball to succeed in the southeast.

ABARedWhiteBlue
01-05-2011, 03:35 AM
http://withleather.uproxx.com/2011/01/the-aba-is-entertaining-and-awful
THE ABA IS ENTERTAINING AND AWFUL

Considering that I had not the slightest idea the ABA still existed, this story came as a shock to me, and is certainly more interesting than hearing more Jim Harbaugh rumors. I’ve heard that Harbaugh’s 8 feet tall and owns a diamond mine in Sierra Leone. And now those are rumors, because you’ve heard them too.

Anywho, the Jacksonville Giants played the Georgia Gwizzlies (no, I’m not trying to phonetically write a hilarious speech impediment, that’s their actual name) in a game that was over at halftime, with he score 94-46 in favor of Jacksonville. This article’s halftime adjustments are courtesy of jacksonville.com.

The Georgia Gwizzlies got lost on the way to the Jacksonville Veterans Memorial Arena, delaying the start of Sunday night’s ABA game by one hour. Once they made it to the arena, the Gwizzlies seemed lost on the court as well.

The Giants dominated Georgia, 205-102, breaking their own record for points in a game set earlier this season. Jacksonville’s full-court press and fast-paced offense led to a 47-31 lead at the end of the first quarter.

The Giants kept the pressure on the Gwizzlies, and with every turnover, Jacksonville responded with a fast break and an easy basket. Jacksonville went on a 12-0 run midway through the second to open up a 68-33 lead, and by halftime led 94-46. –jacksonville.com

I don’t even think the Heat could score 205 points playing against my high school team. What kind of locker room adjustments do you make after giving up 94 points in the first half? “Play some damn defense, or you won’t get paid” would be the best bet, but I can’t imagine that the Georgia Gwizzlies get paid at all. I have no idea who their owner is, or if they even have an owner, but I know that sound financial investments like buying an ABA team are the key to getting our country’s economy back on track.

ABARedWhiteBlue
01-05-2011, 03:44 AM
http://lastangryfan.com/2011/01/the-aba-where-defense-rarely-happens/

The ABA: Where Defense Rarely Happens
I doubt that anyone other than the most hardcore of basketball fans knows that the American Basketball Association, or ABA, is alive, well, and thriving. We’re talking expansion here people—national, and international, expansion to boot.

Who knew?

Now, I doubt very much that every ABA game is like the recent tilt between the Georgia Gwizzlies (no that is not a typo) and the Jacksonville Giants, in that I’m sure that most ABA games feature a little thing called defense. Well, maybe the hometown Giants played some, seeing that they only yielded 102 points to the Gwizzlies.

Georgia on the other hand…yeah, not so much.

The ball’s in your court, Jacksonville.com…

Jacksonville’s full-court press and fast-paced offense led to a 47-31 lead at the end of the first quarter.

The Giants kept the pressure on the Gwizzlies, and with every turnover, Jacksonville responded with a fast break and an easy basket. Jacksonville went on a 12-0 run midway through the second to open up a 68-33 lead, and by halftime led 94-46.

That’s pretty terrible, but some of it could be attributed to the Georgia team getting lost on the way to the arena, which delayed the game for an hour. But hey, at least the Gwizzlies made a game of it in the second half to keep it respectable, no?

The Giants dominated Georgia, 205-102, breaking their own record for points in a game set earlier this season.

Whaaa??? Down 48 going into the break, you had to assume that Georgia made some halftime adjustments, but apparently not. Unless those adjusments were to give up as many points as possible to Jacksonville.

If that’s the case, good work Gwizzlies coaching staff, you’ve done your team proud.

misenern
01-05-2011, 11:45 AM
Why is it not possible? Can a team not play an independent schedule? There are tons of traveling teams that do this all the time. I have no doubt that any decent team in the minors (not including the NBDL) would play the Giants if they called. It is clear by the attention that Chris Munson is giving them he is trying to get them to change leagues. Do you not think the CBL would schedule them in the hopes of getting them to move over. Do you really believe that the PBL teams would not play them.

I'm just stating the obvious. The Jacksonville team would be more successful as an independent team. That would be able to dictate who they play and not worry about canceled games. I don't believe anyone would argue that Joe, if not other leagues also, would let them play in the playoffs for 5k. Even let them host the games.

The Giants could play an independent schedule against ABA teams and probably some CBL teams too. I am sure the Florida Flight and the other Florida teams wouldn't mind playing some exhibition games before the CBL season starts. You'd still have a lot of the same problems. Low level competition that gets blown out, small benches, bad uniforms and potential no shows. I don't see any PBL teams bothering to go out of their way to play meaningless games in Florida but that's not really the problem with your proposed idea.

The problem with the independent schedule is that a lot of fans like to have a league to follow. It fails in the same way that the ABA fails. They want to know the opposition. They want to look at league leaders and see a player of the week. They want standings. They want rival teams and big match-ups. They want meaningful games. They surely don't want to see an exhibition game every night. This isn't Globetrotter basketball they are selling. Buying your way into the playoffs would seem like a joke to any fan.

Really, if the Giants are in any league other than the CBL their travel expenses would be through the roof. In the ABA, they WILL have to pay the other teams to show up. The IBL is a joke just like the ABA. They would have to pay teams to show up. Independent schedule? Same deal. The PBL's geography is a terrible match for this team. Same for the D-League, although I doubt that league would even accept the Giants.

They would be just as well off playing an independent schedule as they are being in the ABA. Either way, the ABA doesn't have stats, a schedule or standings - anything a fan can invest in or appreciate. The Giants can play who they want and everyone makes the playoffs regardless. The independent schedule obviously isn't a good idea. I'm not big on the CBL either, but at this point it's the Giants best option other than cutting their loses and folding.

formerlyknownasfells
01-05-2011, 11:59 AM
Alex,

By no means am I implying that we are recruiting or trying to convince Giants ownership to change leagues. In the case of the Giants, I am simply giving credit where I believe it is due. In the few games they have played, the Giants have done more than the Jacksonville Jam/Slam did in their stint in the PBL.

Jacksonville is a solid basketball city. In the two and a half years I have lived here, I have not been able to see a good pro/semi-pro game without traveling to Orlando, Savannah or Miami. As a fan of the game, I really enjoy seeing basketball have a bit of success in the River City.

As many people on the boards know, I have been critical of the ABA for many years. What I would LOVE to see is the ABA, CBL, PBL and all of the other minor leagues be able to garner the fan support the Giants have. We have seen this success in Vermont, Rochester, Wilmington, Halifax and now St. John. (Or is it St. John's? I always mess that up.) I just want to see this throughout the minor leagues and have the minors be a true developmental system for the NBA.

LightningMan
01-05-2011, 12:42 PM
...and now St. John. (Or is it St. John's? I always mess that up.)
It's Saint John with no abbreviation on the Saint part. The other Canadian place is St. John's with the abbreviation. Why the distinction? You'd have to ask a Canadian.

AlextheGreat
01-05-2011, 06:24 PM
The Giants could play an independent schedule against ABA teams and probably some CBL teams too. I am sure the Florida Flight and the other Florida teams wouldn't mind playing some exhibition games before the CBL season starts. You'd still have a lot of the same problems. Low level competition that gets blown out, small benches, bad uniforms and potential no shows. I don't see any PBL teams bothering to go out of their way to play meaningless games in Florida but that's not really the problem with your proposed idea.

The problem with the independent schedule is that a lot of fans like to have a league to follow. It fails in the same way that the ABA fails. They want to know the opposition. They want to look at league leaders and see a player of the week. They want standings. They want rival teams and big match-ups. They want meaningful games. They surely don't want to see an exhibition game every night. This isn't Globetrotter basketball they are selling. Buying your way into the playoffs would seem like a joke to any fan.

Really, if the Giants are in any league other than the CBL their travel expenses would be through the roof. In the ABA, they WILL have to pay the other teams to show up. The IBL is a joke just like the ABA. They would have to pay teams to show up. Independent schedule? Same deal. The PBL's geography is a terrible match for this team. Same for the D-League, although I doubt that league would even accept the Giants.

They would be just as well off playing an independent schedule as they are being in the ABA. Either way, the ABA doesn't have stats, a schedule or standings - anything a fan can invest in or appreciate. The Giants can play who they want and everyone makes the playoffs regardless. The independent schedule obviously isn't a good idea. I'm not big on the CBL either, but at this point it's the Giants best option other than cutting their loses and folding.

I think my original point is getting lost. I said they should play in the ABA because they will have too many no-shows. I can't imagine the CBL in its current state is much better. I honestly don't think minor league basketball fans at this juncture care much about a league. If they join the CBL they will still have bad uniforms, no stats, and fewer home games (which I think would be a deal breaker for them). What league leaders are they going to follow in the CBL? I don't see any stats.

Maybe it is time for someone to break off with a new Southeast league. I can think of 8 teams that would be fun to watch.

One last thing, why is the IBL so bad? I honestly don't know much about them. I do know, their website, media, and appeal is better than other leagues. Right now, only knowing a limited bit about IBL, they are the best fit. However, it states it is now $65,000 to join.

AlextheGreat
01-05-2011, 06:48 PM
Alex,

By no means am I implying that we are recruiting or trying to convince Giants ownership to change leagues. In the case of the Giants, I am simply giving credit where I believe it is due. In the few games they have played, the Giants have done more than the Jacksonville Jam/Slam did in their stint in the PBL.

Jacksonville is a solid basketball city. In the two and a half years I have lived here, I have not been able to see a good pro/semi-pro game without traveling to Orlando, Savannah or Miami. As a fan of the game, I really enjoy seeing basketball have a bit of success in the River City.

As many people on the boards know, I have been critical of the ABA for many years. What I would LOVE to see is the ABA, CBL, PBL and all of the other minor leagues be able to garner the fan support the Giants have. We have seen this success in Vermont, Rochester, Wilmington, Halifax and now St. John. (Or is it St. John's? I always mess that up.) I just want to see this throughout the minor leagues and have the minors be a true developmental system for the NBA.

If that is the case, I hope you're not getting paid. If I was with the CBL I would sleep on the owners front door, name my child after him, and give him my next one.

A team like that could propel the CBL toward being relevant.

misenern
01-05-2011, 09:52 PM
I think my original point is getting lost. I said they should play in the ABA because they will have too many no-shows. I can't imagine the CBL in its current state is much better. I honestly don't think minor league basketball fans at this juncture care much about a league. If they join the CBL they will still have bad uniforms, no stats, and fewer home games (which I think would be a deal breaker for them). What league leaders are they going to follow in the CBL? I don't see any stats.

Maybe it is time for someone to break off with a new Southeast league. I can think of 8 teams that would be fun to watch.

One last thing, why is the IBL so bad? I honestly don't know much about them. I do know, their website, media, and appeal is better than other leagues. Right now, only knowing a limited bit about IBL, they are the best fit. However, it states it is now $65,000 to join.

Like I said, I am not big on the CBL, but percentage-wise they play more of their schedule and a league office that tries to have a few standards. You are right about the uniforms and stats. The main benefit would be travel costs, standings and a schedule. And trust me, fans, media and sponsors DO care about the league. The amount of negative PR the Giants will get from the ABA will make it worth joining another league. Being a barnstorming independent team has plenty of issues too. That being said this team doesn't look like it gets much media attention at all.

The IBL has an okay looking website (maybe), but the league play is a joke. It's is literally a rec league where teams are encouraged not to pay players. You have phantom teams, an unstable schedule, a TON of league owned teams, no due diligence and a bad level of play. The $65,000 is obviously just marketing BS. What do they give you for this $65,000? 90% of the teams in that league could not afford that entry free. Game reports and media are non-existent for most teams. It's a lot of that same problems the ABA has with a few unique to the IBL. It's sad because at one point the IBL looked like it could have been a fairly legit league. Either way, the travel would be a nightmare and the Giants would have to, again, pay teams to show up.

I actually like your idea of a new Southwest league, but why not work with what's already in place and see if the CBL can be turned around? It might make more sense. There are too many redundant leagues out there already.

AlextheGreat
01-05-2011, 10:15 PM
Like I said, I am not big on the CBL, but percentage-wise they play more of their schedule and a league office that tries to have a few standards. You are right about the uniforms and stats. The main benefit would be travel costs, standings and a schedule. And trust me, fans, media and sponsors DO care about the league. The amount of negative PR the Giants will get from the ABA will make it worth joining another league. Being a barnstorming independent team has plenty of issues too. That being said this team doesn't look like it gets much media attention at all.

The IBL has an okay looking website (maybe), but the league play is a joke. It's is literally a rec league where teams are encouraged not to pay players. You have phantom teams, an unstable schedule, a TON of league owned teams, no due diligence and a bad level of play. The $65,000 is obviously just marketing BS. What do they give you for this $65,000? 90% of the teams in that league could not afford that entry free. Game reports and media are non-existent for most teams. It's a lot of that same problems the ABA has with a few unique to the IBL. It's sad because at one point the IBL looked like it could have been a fairly legit league. Either way, the travel would be a nightmare and the Giants would have to, again, pay teams to show up.

I actually like your idea of a new Southwest league, but why not work with what's already in place and see if the CBL can be turned around? It might make more sense. There are too many redundant leagues out there already.

I agree with your post. I didn't do a good job of explaining myself earlier. I do think a good league is great for the fans. I just was trying to state that Jacksonville fans are coming to games despite the ABA. Which to me means they would support the team just as much if they were independent.

I really don't know much about the IBL. The site was decent but outdated the more I viewed it. I was impressed by the videos they had though. Those are top notch production. I have never seen the talent level of the IBL though, so I will assume you are correct.

The CBL does have a shot to be successful. However, their window of opportunity is closing.

Love Pro Hoops
01-07-2011, 08:35 PM
http://withleather.uproxx.com/2011/01/the-aba-is-entertaining-and-awful


The Gwizzles should just fold,how do you get beat by 103 points??The players must be awful and the coaching even worst.WOW speachless

ABARedWhiteBlue
01-07-2011, 09:16 PM
The Gwizzles should just fold,how do you get beat by 103 points??The players must be awful and the coaching even worst.WOW speachless

I think I speak for many of us here that no, the Gwizz should NEVER be permitted to fold.

Few things have given us more joy here on OSC than the posted musings of Mr. Embry Malone. His interpretation of the English language was unparalleled.

He had threads created to record his releases:

http://www.oursportscentral.com/boards/showthread.php?t=7432
http://www.oursportscentral.com/boards/showthread.php?t=8472
http://www.oursportscentral.com/boards/showthread.php?t=13416
http://www.oursportscentral.com/boards/showthread.php?t=4478

Please, take the time to click and bask in the warm glow of the scorched grammar that is Embry Malone...

ABARedWhiteBlue
02-07-2011, 06:16 PM
some posters on TideSports.com actually followed the recent Jax 204-point outburst...

http://forum.tidesports.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=21309

RimRockers Play2Win
02-08-2011, 09:01 AM
I have a question for the oursportscentral.com forum?

Since it seems that the Southeast Texas Mavericks and Jacksonville Giants are on a collision American Basketball Association Championship Game in April. Based on current roster, who is going to win and why??

turbocamyes
02-08-2011, 10:57 AM
I have a question for the oursportscentral.com forum?

Since it seems that the Southeast Texas Mavericks and Jacksonville Giants are on a collision American Basketball Association Championship Game in April. Based on current roster, who is going to win and why??

SE Texas. Even without Blackburn, the Mavericks still play defense. So far the Giants haven't been really tested, and when they played teams with a few Div I & II players their scores have been more realistic

Date Visitor Home
12/04/10 S Fran Rumble 124 Jacksonville Giants 182
12/05/10 Haiti Relief Team 84 Jacksonville Giants 168
12/12/10 Savannah Storm 90 Jacksonville Giants 151
12/19/10 Fayetteville Flight 91 Jacksonville Giants 154
12/26/10 Savannah Storm 108 Jacksonville Giants 133
01/01/11 Heartland Prowl 84 Jacksonville Giants 116
01/02/11 Georgia Gwizzlies 102 Jacksonville Giants 206
01/04/11 Jacksonville Giants 187 Florida Makos 123
01/08/11 Fl Thundercats 85 Jacksonville Giants 160
01/09/11 Orlando Kings 117 Jacksonville Giants 174
01/15/11 Florida Makos 80 Jacksonville Giants 153
01/16/11 Orlando Kings 104 Jacksonville Giants 129
01/22/11 Jacksonville Giants 164 Savannah Storm 128
01/29/11 Jacksonville Giants 140 Heartland Prowl 129
01/30/11 Heartland Prowl 114 Jacksonville Giants 180
02/06/11 Florida Makos 85 Jacksonville Giants 204

turbocamyes
02-08-2011, 11:01 AM
Don't forget East Kentucky. Or maybe Seven City, who just beat them on Saturday.

SK10171996
02-08-2011, 11:09 PM
The Giants website shows a home game on Feb 19 against the Florida Makos, and a road game also on Feb 19 against the Florida Thundercats in Lake Butler, FL...

turbocamyes
02-09-2011, 06:22 AM
The Giants website shows a home game on Feb 19 against the Florida Makos, and a road game also on Feb 19 against the Florida Thundercats in Lake Butler, FL...

The original schedule had Jax at Orlando and the Makos at Thundercats.

ABARedWhiteBlue
02-26-2011, 05:25 AM
http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/blog/field_and_street/2011/02/giants-on-the-court-not-at-the-gate.html

Giants on the court, not at the gate
Jacksonville Business Journal - by Ashley Gurbal
Date: Friday, February 25, 2011, 2:31pm EST - Last Modified: Friday, February 25, 2011, 3:09pm EST

Ashley Gurbal
Reporter
Email: agurbal@bizjournals.com
There’s no denying the Jacksonville Giants — the city’s American Basketball Association franchise — have done well on the court, going 22-0 in the team’s inaugural season.
But it’s harder to get a feel for exactly how well the team’s doing on the business side of things. Team owner Ron Sholes, a personal injury and criminal defense attorney, said he has several things to assess after the season ends the last weekend of March — like how to promote ticket sales and where the team will play next year.

This year, they play at Jacksonville Veterans Memorial Arena — a contract that cost Sholes $250,000, as we reported in November.
I caught up with Sholes Friday afternoon at City Hall Pub, which he also owns, in addition to his own law firm, Ron Sholes PA.

Just back from California, where the Giants beat the San Francisco Rumble, Sholes, furiously thumbing away on his BlackBerry, was hosting a luncheon for 24 ABA players and coaches who were in town for the ABA All-Star game, which tips off at 1:30 p.m. Saturday.

He didn’t want to disclose ticket sales or sponsorship dollars but said average attendance has been around 2,000 people per game. Robin Timothy, assistant general manager of SMG, which manages the arena on behalf of the city, did not immediately return a phone call seeking comment.

While he wouldn’t comment on whether the team’s lost money, he said Absolute Medical Clinic has been the team’s biggest sponsor — as well as his own businesses. He said he personally hasn’t given any money.
“The sponsors have helped out,” Sholes said. “Obviously, I can’t give out all the figures. Ron Sholes PA has been a big sponor, and City Hall Pub has been a big sponsor.”

For next year, he’s considering moving the games to the University of North Florida’s gymnasium or the St. Augustine Amphitheater. He’ll start promoting ticket sales and sponsorship packages in April — if the team comes back for a second season.

Asked directly whether the Giants would exist next season, Sholes said: “We plan on having a team next year.”

If the 2000 average figure is accurate - that would make them the most successful ABA franchise in terms of attendance since Rochester/Vermont. And that 2000 number would most likely equal the COMBINED average of all the other teams in their division (at least).

The fact that they are not satisfied tells you they aspire to a more professional situation for their franchise, and that the ABA is nothing more than a rest stop for them.