Rockford to Golden League; League Expands

[wasteland]

WREX TV reports Rockford (along with Lake County and Schamburg of the Northern League) will be joining the newly expanded Golden League. It will be comprised of four divisions, West, Canada, Texas, and Midwest. I'm sure more will be released soon on this breaking news.

[wasteland]

ROCKFORD (WREX) - After one season in the Northern League, the Rockford RiverHawks leave for the Golden League.

An official announcement is expected next week, but team owner Dave Ciarrachi told the 13 Sports Authority Friday night that the ‘Hawks are Golden League bound and the league itself will expand.

Ciarrachi said the league's new format will feature four divisions, one on the west coast, one in Canada, one in Texas, and one in the Midwest.

The RiverHawks will play in the Midwest division along with former Northern League teams from Schaumburg, Joliet, and Lake County. A potential fifth member of the division could come from Omaha.

Ciarrachi said the Golden League rules will allow the RiverHawks to keep the players they have, no matter their age.

The league will feature 16 or 17 teams and the name of the league along with the divisions will be discussed at the owners meetings later this month.

http://www.wrex.com/Global/story.asp?S=13495797

[nksports]

What kind of drugs are these people on? I know the Golden League is pretty desperate at this point, but this makes no sense whatsoever. If these owners couldn't get into the AA or Frontier League, maybe that was a sign to hang it up.
This could turn into the ABA or NIFL of indy pro baseball.

[J.J. Smith]

If this were April 1st, that story would make sense, but on any other day:eek:

Well, this should be interesting- in a sad, desperate sort of way.

[indyproball]

There are 4-5 teams mentioned above......why not form a midwest league and not get involved with an old league ridden with problems?

GL teams out are:

Tucson
Hawaii
St. George
Chico
Victoria
Tijuana
Yuma too?


HERE'S THE SCENERIO!

Edmonton
Calgary
Rockford
Schaumburg
Lake County
Joliet

[WallysWorld]

Well admittedly from a selfish point of view, I just want any type of baseball to help keep the Vipers and the Capitals around.

[LaVidaLoca]

Hot Stove report...Wow...Can we all be fantasizing that there will be a 4 division league made up of a bunch of misfits (16)? I can see the old UL, some defects from AA, what is left of the GBL, and NL defects who else...I wish we could all go to this meeting...that would be a blast!
I say we have some fun naming the new league, and naming the new divisions. Why not, we have nothing else to do. Maybe in a few weeks we can vote on the winner and give them the trophy which needs to be designed by a genius on this blog. I'll take the 1st shot at naming names:

League Name - Star Trek League sponsored by Travelosity.Com

Divisions -Western Vacationers, Texas TimeWarp, Canadian Frequent Flyers, Midwestern Travelers

League President: Leonard Nimoy
Travel Consultant: William Shatner
League Doctor: "Bones McCoy"
Administrative Consultant: George Takai "Sulu"
Operations Mgr: "Scotty"
Financial Officer: "Chekov"

Who else would put together a "trial by fire" once in a lifetime league of miracles?? Oh I know...The Klingon Federation and the Romulan Council

That was fun!! Beam me up Scotty

[E-TownCaps]

Well the GBL pulled this one out of know where. A week a go we all thought the GBL was done with Tuscon and Victoria joining all the other clubs who have had enough. You have to give credit to the GBL for wanting to keep the league around and do whatever is possible to do it.

Rumour has it the GBL is spliting the league up into 4 divisions with a midwest, Canadian, west coast, and Texas division. In the midwest you could see Rockford, Joliet, Schaumburg, Lake County, and Omaha. The Canadian division will feature Edmonton, Calgary, and two others maybe Victoria, Kamloops, Medicine Hat? The west coast could see Yuma, Chico, Orange County, and Maui. In the Texas division is would not surprise me if the GBL took over the entire ULB. I think everybody has to keep in mind that this is only indy baseball and not the Major Leagues, turn over is going to happen teams our going to come and go all the time, just look at minor league affliated ball teams and cities change all the time. Just remember it's a kids game, and be happy your team has a league to play in because when its gone its gone.

[smallballfan]

Off of one unconfirmed report from Rockford, everything is fine and dandy? Think this through - of all the teams that could possibly be in this thing, how many are actually viable franchises?

Schaumburg, Joliet, Victoria, all the GL franchises but Edmonton and Calgary, all the UL franchises - are any of them surviving as a business? Haven't Schaumburg and Joliet both been evicted from their stadiums and have bankrupt operations? Omaha has already given up on putting an indy team in Rosenblatt. Lake County's stadium and economic problems are well-documented. Rockford seems to be solid, so there's one.

The GL franchises - Victoria has already called it quits (though again, it could be a ploy to get a new lease) and not a word has been heard from any of the other GL franchises in the USA. Well, except for Tucson folding up shop and the Chico mayor saying they didn't want the team back. Anyone even know if OC or Yuma are in business, here in mid-November?

The UL franchises - seriously, who are they, is anyone running them, are they operating?

Most of these teams, especially the GL teams, are broke already, they couldn't handle travel within their own leagues last year - all of a sudden these bankrupt, evicted owners have the money to travel from Chicago to Maui? The guy who can't pay rent in Orange County suddenly has enough money to fly 30 people to Rockford?

Or are they going to run basically four separate, four team leagues? At some point someone's going to have to pay for a plane, and that's where the fun starts. Long bus ride from Joliet to Chico.

Where else are they pulling from - the AA, the Pecos League? The Chicago Over-35 16" Softball League?

All of that goes away because of someone flapping their gums in Rockford?

As they say on ESPN... 'come on, man.'

With that said, it really would be something if, now that Kaval is gone, some integrity came to the GL and they had some sort of plan. If it actually happens, they might be smart to not call it the GL and not tie anyone to that reputation.

It'll be interesting to see what happens. Those of us who do this for a living hate to see any baseball go away. Like someone said earlier, things change all the time in indy ball. Maybe something can be pulled out of all this and a good change comes along for once.

A lot of commotion from one rumor.

[Shootmaster_44]

So to form a Canadian division they will need to expand. I guess this means Kamloops and Saskatoon will get the teams the GBL has attempted to place in those cities.

I wonder if Victoria will relocate instead of simply folding? With the team being owned by the Parkers, who also own the Regina Pats, I wonder if they might just move the team to Regina?

So with the four teams jumping from the Northern League, I guess the league is dead. That surprises me since for many, many years it was the strongest and most viable league going. It was king of the mountain as far as indy baseball was concerned. I remember that Saskatoon tried to get a Northern League team many times and was rebuked by the league for not being good enough for them.

I guess one of two things will happen for the Golden League. Either the league will thrive because of the expansion and stronger teams brought in (the Northern League 4 for instance) or the league will collapse under the weight of being too spread out.

[smallballfan]

stronger teams brought in (the Northern League 4 for instance)

Shoot,

I'm curious as to which of the four NL teams are considered strong? I really only see what I read in the papers and on here, so I'm not that familiar with the inner workings. Of the four, it appears only Rockford has not been reported as bankrupt, being evicted or trying to find new ownership.

Not sniping, just trying to learn - what makes Joliet, Schaumburg, Lake County strong?

[MJHankel]

what makes Joliet, Schaumburg, Lake County strong?

My guess would be their attendance numbers. Based on that alone they are stronger.

Joliet and Schaumburg both have ownership that mismanaged funds. My understanding is that the Joliet ownership lost a lot when the SCL went under.

Better owners that are focused on their markets would make those two, very viable markets.

[smallballfan]

Better owners that are focused on their markets would make those two, very viable markets.

Granted, and one could say the same of any team or business anywhere in the world - better owners, more focused, makes for a better business. That's pretty much what one learns on the first day of business school.

But who are these new owners? Haven't seen anything on any prospective sale of either team. Only the generic "looking for new ownership" things. Is there a line of people wanting to buy these failing teams? Doesn't appear to be.

If I'm approached to invest in a team (and I have been), I look at what they have to offer. In the case of both Joliet and Schaumburg, the stadium itself is the only asset. Each are nice facilites for what the team should be trying to accomplish.

But that's it - years of bad press, losing money, government/team conflicts -there seems to be too much mess to clean up in either case, too much history and bad feelings between everyone involved. I'm sure every vendor in town that might throw marketing dollars to the team has long since abandoned them as well. The governments have to answer to their voters, so they aren't going to give some sweetheart deal to me as an investor, just so they can brag about having a baseball team in town - those days are long gone. So I'd be in for a ton of rent, utilities, taxes, percentages, etc.

Does either town -fans, business, government - care about either team? It sure doesn't appear so. So as an investor, in this economy, am I going to sink my cash into one of these two dark holes hoping for some miracle turnaround before I lose my butt? Do I really think I'd be some white knight, riding into town, and everyone would line up to follow me to some storybook success story? Do I want to risk that?

Nah.

Maybe they need to bring Kaval back for this effort. He was always good at finding suckers to write a check. I'm sure they'll find someone, they always do.

[Shootmaster_44]

Shoot,

I'm curious as to which of the four NL teams are considered strong? I really only see what I read in the papers and on here, so I'm not that familiar with the inner workings. Of the four, it appears only Rockford has not been reported as bankrupt, being evicted or trying to find new ownership.

Not sniping, just trying to learn - what makes Joliet, Schaumburg, Lake County strong?

I don't follow the Northern League super close. But the league as a whole has always seemed much better run than the Golden League. In comparison to almost all the GBL teams, I would think the Northern League teams are strong.

But perhaps I am wrong?

[smallballfan]

True, compared to the GL, the NL was strong. But that's like saying compared to Enron, the Titanic was well run.

Guess we'll find out. I hope baseball succeeds, it's a great game and a great business for those who love it.

There are also those who have done more than their share to ruin it to line their own pockets (insert GL, NL, etc. executive, or current MLS executive, names here), without care of being part of a community or realizing the good that comes from having a minor league team in one's town.

[E-TownCaps]

All you have to do is look back and remember the Edmonton Cracker Cats, an organization that was run horrible from top to bottom. The Edmonton Oilers take over and buy the franchise and the Caps are most likely the top organization in the GBL. It just goes to show you if you can get the proper people in there to run the organization there is no reason to why it can't succeed. The ball parks in Joliet and Schamburg are top notch for indy ball and it would be sad to not see baseball not played in them.

[Ken, Steelheads fan]

...Of the four, it appears only Rockford has not been reported as bankrupt, being evicted or trying to find new ownership.

Not sniping, just trying to learn - what makes Joliet, Schaumburg, Lake County strong?

Include Lake County with Rockford. No credible news source has EVER reported Lake County as bankrupt, evicted, or trying to find new ownership...or folding, for that matter. Only sources, that aren't really news at all (which includes the pseudo news of Ballparkdigest.com), cast a shadow on the future of the Lake County Fielders.

The question marks are in Joliet and Schaumburg. The village of Schaumburg already terminated the Flyers lease and the city of Joliet MAY terminate the JackHammers' lease. The team coming out of Schaumburg will not be the old Flyers, IMO. The same may be the case in Joliet, but the JackHammers are fighting having their lease terminated.
http://heraldnews.suntimes.com/sports/2324144-419/jackhammers-team-league-season-baseball.html
“If it doesn’t get resolved soon, we know what our next step will be,” Thanas said.

That means the city breaks the lease with the JackHammers, who still owe $216,000 in old rent, and lines up another minor league team for next season. The city has talked about making its own deal for weeks but has held off as the threat of a bankruptcy entanglement became increasingly real.

[J.J. Smith]

Does either town -fans, business, government - care about either team? It sure doesn't appear so.



I've spent a lot of time in Schaumburg over the last couple years, and I have yet to come across one person who could even mildly be considered a fan of the team. You don't see Flyers hats or shirts, they barely get mentioned in the local paper and they do next to zero marketing that I can see. They have become a source of embarrassment to the existing government. The amount of debt Ehrenreich ran up was kept quiet for years, but was revealed recently through a Freedom of Information Act request by a political opponent. They have burned about every bridge with their sleazy, incompetent business practices.

People like Alexian, but really don't care one way or the other about the Flyers. They draw pretty well on Friday nights with fireworks, on Saturday they get around 2k, Sunday less. During the week they draw small (sometimes very small) crowds. The attendance figures they report are massively overstated.

Schaumburg thinks someone is going to come in and pay off their debt to have the honor of buying a team that has been on the way down for years and is a part of a made up league with a bunch of fellow basket cases? Well, I guess there's a sucker born every minute, and they better hope they can find one with some disposable income.

This whole Golden League deal sounds like a ploy to try to inject value into a bunch of franchises that are in reality valueless.

[Ken, Steelheads fan]

I don't know about sleazy, incompetent business practices as you put it. Next to no marketing and not paying debts are consistent with a franchise that simply ran out of money. The Flyers ran out of money sooner than a few others. Expect more franchises to follow suit in the upcoming months and years, IMO. Kind of like what happened with national retail stores like Montgomery Ward, Circuit City, etc. Only the strong will survive. Who will survive on the sports entertainment landscape (and notice I didn't restrict it to minor leagues)? Your guess is as good as mine.

[wasteland]

Being from the Rockford area and knowing someone with ties to the team, I do know that they did not want to go back to the Frontier league. They do not like the salary and age caps the league has.

That said, the main problem with the Chicago burb teams has a lot to do with media. These teams don’t really have there own media market, what they have is Chicago or is shared with Chicago. A team like Riverhawks is a big deal here. It’s the pro baseball team covered by the TV and radio stations and the newspaper (same goes with the Icehogs) on a personal level. A good number of players live in the community now. You can buy merchandise at varies stores across the city. Go into the burbs people are more concerned about the Cubs or Sox to care about that minor league team playing across town because that’s what they see covered daily in the paper.

[preeths]

Here's an update:
http://mystateline.com/fulltext-sports/?nxd_id=210246

[E-TownCaps]

This is a better update for everyone.

http://www.ballparkdigest.com/201011163273/independent-baseball/features/new-for-2011-north-american-league

[Ken, Steelheads fan]

This is a better update for everyone.

http://www.ballparkdigest.com/201011163273/independent-baseball/features/new-for-2011-north-american-league

E-TownCaps,
With all do respect, the news on ballparkdigest.com isn't worth reading. First, it's hit and miss with a heavy emphasis on miss. Second, it's a slap in the face to actual journalists everywhere (and I'm no journalist) with its anyone can contribute, but no by-lines format.

Preeths provided a link to an actual news update where actual journalists have the integrity to stand by their work. I clicked-on both links. Ballparkdigest.com is simply adding to the confusion with that unsubstantiated drivel.

[Zeyes]

Just out of curiosity, how many more times will you be posting these repetitive anti-BPD rants until you feel you've sufficiently made the point to us deluded rubes reading this forum?

If you actually read BPD instead of just complaining about it from afar, you just might have seen their About (http://www.ballparkdigest.com/20100711390/about) page at some point, including its "Contributing writers" section. (Where you got the idea that "anyone can contribute" is completely beyond me.) Even with their no-bylines policy, I'm positive they'd be kind enough to direct you to the author of a particular post if you actually voiced specific disagreement with it instead of your nebulous "unsubstantiated drivel" accusations.

[LivefromChico]

OK, let me see if I have this straight since all of what you guys are writing about is news to me. The concept, as I understand it, is to take the surviving teams from four indy leagues across the country and combine them to form some sort of "super" indy league with four divisions made up of four teams each? Is that the basic gist of the idea?

So if that's the case, does that mean that you would only play in your division, or would you be expected to travel out of division? And what teams are making up the "west" division in this fantasy league? If Chico is included, that would be interesting news. From what I understand, the Outlaws folks are trying like hell to represent that they'll be here next season, but as of now, there's no contract in place to my knowledge.

To be honest, this sounds like one of the stupidest ideas I've heard of, and being around the Outlaws for so many years, trust me when I say I've heard a lot of stupid ideas.

[TOROSFAN]

LivefromChico...your gist is correct. It is a proposed super league and it may be the only saving grace for alot of indyball if they can pull it off. The more I think about it the better it seems. Reasons: there will be 4 diff ceo's having input into the mix of schedules, salary, travel and rules. Alot of travel...yes...but from what I have heard they will play witin their div about 48 gms and vs another div closer by, 24 games, culminating in a playoff structure of 16 teams(4 each) then down to a div champ, then down to an overall league champ. Not a bad idea and if it saves alot of teams, GREAT! Alot to be be discussed and drawn out I'm sure but it may be the last best effort.
Not sure how the GBL teams will breakout, but Chico is still a guess, as is Yuma, and for sure Maui. OC is still trying to take over but there is alot of debt and bills to be decided on before that becomes a reality. I think Calgary, Edmon are the only sure things on the GBL side of this.
But, a really good winter discussion if nothing else...still some time for the players to jump, but they likely will have to jump to the new league which would be a real interesting trading pool.

[Ken, Steelheads fan]

Just out of curiosity, how many more times will you be posting these repetitive anti-BPD rants until you feel you've sufficiently made the point to us deluded rubes reading this forum?
...

According to the upper-right of this post under my hometown, I have over 2200 posts--all bashing Ballparkdigest I think. You won't have to endure this much longer, I'm certain. Even I get tired. 8)


...
If you actually read BPD instead of just complaining about it from afar, you just might have seen their About (http://www.ballparkdigest.com/20100711390/about) page at some point, including its "Contributing writers" section. (Where you got the idea that "anyone can contribute" is completely beyond me.) Even with their no-bylines policy, I'm positive they'd be kind enough to direct you to the author of a particular post if you actually voiced specific disagreement with it instead of your nebulous "unsubstantiated drivel" accusations.

Thanks for the link. Yes, I viewed the About Page. I've also viewed their About Page before you provided a link and I still can't make heads or tails out of where this so-called news comes from. You said, "Where you got the idea that anyone can contribute is completely beyond me". Well, I got the idea near the bottom of each BPD so-called news feature like this one:
http://www.ballparkdigest.com/201011163273/independent-baseball/features/new-for-2011-north-american-league

Share your news with the baseball community. Send it to us at editors@augustpublications.com.

Share your news and send it to us, sure sounds like anyone can contribute to me.

My point is, because of the Internet there is ample access to legitimate news. Unfortunately, because of the Internet there is also ample access to faux news. This faux news only serves to cloud issues.

[babaseball]

OK, let me see if I have this straight since all of what you guys are writing about is news to me. The concept, as I understand it, is to take the surviving teams from four indy leagues across the country and combine them to form some sort of "super" indy league with four divisions made up of four teams each? Is that the basic gist of the idea?

So if that's the case, does that mean that you would only play in your division, or would you be expected to travel out of division? And what teams are making up the "west" division in this fantasy league? If Chico is included, that would be interesting news. From what I understand, the Outlaws folks are trying like hell to represent that they'll be here next season, but as of now, there's no contract in place to my knowledge.

To be honest, this sounds like one of the stupidest ideas I've heard of, and being around the Outlaws for so many years, trust me when I say I've heard a lot of stupid ideas.

As someone who has been around the Outlaws for a while as well, I can't even see it making sense financially to operate the team this year. With all of the bad press they got from Linscheid at the conclusion of the season, I can't see an already shrinking list of prospective sponsors wanting to jump back on board. I'm sure their one remaining founding partner (Enloe) is going to (or already has) tell them to take a hike. It's going to be hard to go into December or January without a single ticket or sponsorship sold for 2011, even if they do end up getting a lease. Besides a few host families and boosters, most of Chico seems like they could care less whether or not the Outlaws are back next season.

I can't see three league on the verge of failure coming together to make a successful "super league". It make help alleviate some of the travel expenses that have plagued the GBL over the past few seasons, but it won't magically fix the problems that are facing many of the teams in these leagues. I think it's more a sign of desperation than a sign that things are on there way up.

[smallballfan]

Oops... not so fast on the super league.

http://ballparkbiz.wordpress.com/2010/11/17/city-leaders-to-intervene-to-secure-frontier-league-affiliation/#more-12098

I didn't realize the city government could decide in what league a team plays.

I agree with babaseball. Still confused on how a bunch of broke, evicted, hated in their towns, no money teams can possibly make such an undertaking work. Saying you have this super league doesn't give anyone any more cash to operate. Has there been any sort of real announcement of a plan for this?

[Pounder]

Oops... not so fast on the super league.

http://ballparkbiz.wordpress.com/2010/11/17/city-leaders-to-intervene-to-secure-frontier-league-affiliation/#more-12098

I didn't realize the city government could decide in what league a team plays.


If you're playing in a stadium that the city owns, that city can certainly make it a stipulation of a lease agreement.

[wasteland]

Chris Daleo, Director of Operations for the Riverhawks was on wxrx radio in Rockford today and basically said, they are exploring their options, which includes the rumored 4 division super league. Ideally he said they would like to stick with the other remaining Northern league teams because of the natural rivalries due to distance from one another. The thing that worries them the most about the super league with the GBL is the question marks that remain on some of the teams. If they sell out a homestand for a team from Cali, they want to make sure that team shows up. The way that would work is you play most of the schedule with your division and each team makes a swing through the each of 3 divisions. That would result on like a 2 week road trip a few times a year, but how costs would be shared weren’t addressed.

Daleo also said the door is open to move over to the American Association or to rejoin the Frontier league. In the end they hope to settle on something soon.

[Jntg4]

The NAL will go ahead even without Joliet, BTW. The are adding Tijuana, which makes 15 teams, the same number as with Joliet and not Tijuana. Then they'll add either Omaha or Yuma, or even both and maybe another to make 16 or 18 teams total.

[Ken, Steelheads fan]

Oops... not so fast on the super league.

http://ballparkbiz.wordpress.com/2010/11/17/city-leaders-to-intervene-to-secure-frontier-league-affiliation/#more-12098

I didn't realize the city government could decide in what league a team plays.

I agree with babaseball. Still confused on how a bunch of broke, evicted, hated in their towns, no money teams can possibly make such an undertaking work. Saying you have this super league doesn't give anyone any more cash to operate. Has there been any sort of real announcement of a plan for this?

I doubt the city of Joliet knows much about a super league. Afterall, it was only the Rockford Riverhawks who leaked the original announcement. From the same article:
Just who we is, is the question. The city’s minor league team, the JackHammers, is deep in debt and trying to negotiate a sale. Reportedly, a letter of intent to sell the team has been signed, but no sale was completed as of Tuesday.

A letter of intent to sell the team has been signed?!? That's basically the same thing the Schaumburg Flyers are saying. I agree. A super-league sounds like desperation to me. These letters of intent sound like desperation as well. Either they've got actual buyers or they don't have actual buyers...but what buyer would purchase one of these teams with baggage when they can start fresh with a new franchise?

[ca]

fans dont want the fl ? the city best be careful on this one

[hawksfan29]

fans dont want the fl ? the city best be careful on this one

jackhammers fans will not care what league it is. north american, frontier, aa. only 5% care about the baseball it self (mostly those fans can be found on these boards like me and you), 95% just want fun and afforable family entertainment. they could care less about who wins or loses, 1st place or 6th, frontier or northern. that is the truth about indy ball.

[knucks]

I don't understand why anyone would bother reading 95% of the stuff posted here. I come to this board for possible links to news articles, and I am thankful for those who collect them and post them.

I have been a player for a few years and, as an independent minor leaguer, I am rooting for more roster spots and, perhaps, a more national league to join in order to see more of the country. More roster spots means more job security; more job security means more of an opportunity to become affiliated; I am dead set on my ability to crack the MLB, even for a day.

I am excited for this proposed North American League.

I don't understand all the negativity and bickering here. When I read anonymous crying online I wonder to myself the motivations.

The more I read the more it seems like the members of this board are rooting for the collapse of baseball businesses around the country. In this down economic time the fortune, and turn around, of these businesses will signal the end of the great recession.

The NAL is a bold, perhaps desperate step toward national affiliations. Necessity, even desperate necessity, is the mother of invention. If it works who knows what we will see in the future. It seems to be an exciting time.

[smallballfan]

The are adding Tijuana, which makes 15 teams, the same number as with Joliet and not Tijuana. Then they'll add either Omaha or Yuma

The annual "we welcome Tijuana to the league" announcement from the GL already? Kind of early, isn't it?

And didn't Omaha already fall through?

http://www.oursportscentral.com/services/releases/?id=4110212

Didn't Yuma end up the season playing on little league fields or something? Did their players ever get paid, the ones they traded away halfway through the season?

I wonder if all this 'super league' stuff is really happening. Playing 80 or so games against 3 other teams in a division, then making a road trip you can't afford to pay for, doesn't make a lot of sense. Maybe that's why there hasn't been any sort of announcement on it.

[smallballfan]

The more I read the more it seems like the members of this board are rooting for the collapse of baseball businesses around the country.

Knucks, I can only speak for myself, and in my case nothing could be further from the truth. As someone who spent a significant amount of time working in the game, I truly hope this thing succeeds. Baseball is a great game to be around and those of us who are or have been in it know this. I'm not in it anymore but I follow the business of it pretty closely, as many of my long-term friends are still in the game. Some of these friends include ballplayers who are still owed salary from teams this year, who played on promises and the goodness of others while trying to do something they love.

If someone has the vision, financial wherewithal and endurance to make this apparent north american league work, great for them and great for baseball. The problem is that it appears to be the same people who screwed up so many teams and markets in the first place.

Myself, the negativity comes from leagues like the GL, Southeastern, Western (long ago) and some other leagues what have come and gone, who have done absolutely nothing but take from those communities and investors who would like to grow baseball as a business. Their exploits have been thoroughly documented, no need to go through them here.

The point is, having people like them, who screw over players, sponsors, fans, vendors, city governments and staff, gives those of us with a sense of ethics a bad name. They burn markets, creating bad feelings and an atmosphere of distrust when an ethical investor or staff comes in to try to make things right. They make the business sleazy when it shouldn't be. In doing so they also limit the ability of people who work in the business, including some of my friends, to earn a living.

I cite the GL only because I know more than one person who has been through that league. As you know, baseball is a very small world. If one person says someone is sleazy, you take that with a grain of salt. If 10 people you know and trust say it, you tend to believe it.

So when many of us see the same people trying the same things over and over, it's fairly obvious what they're after. The few who actually want to do the right thing get buried under the pile of people like the ones we read about on here.

For the most part, when people say something about someone here, it's backed up by documented facts. Obviously, the occasional "that guy is a scumbag" will pop up, but that's the nature of these kinds of boards. But to say that the Joliet franchise was mismanaged and run into the ground isn't libelous, it's a very well documented piece of fact. To say that the GL trots out a Tijuana franchise, with no financial chance of success, every year isn't an opinion, it's a documented fact with years of history behind it. To say Chico isn't wanted by the city they play in is not slamming anyone, it's quoting the Chico city manager.

Sorry for rambling on, but the bottom line is that reading about the same people who give indy ball a bad name, trying again to line their pockets at the expense of others, is pretty offensive to those of us with any sort of ethics. Those of us who DO want to see indy ball succeed.

[babaseball]

I don't understand all the negativity and bickering here. When I read anonymous crying online I wonder to myself the motivations.

As a former GBL employee, I have seen first had what a poorly run league does to the communities they play in. Sponsors, vendors, local municipalities, season ticket holders, employees, fans, etc. all end up paying the price for the greed of the people at the top. It has been my experience in the business that 90% of players do not fully grasp the scope of the stakeholders that make up a minor league baseball team. You may want more teams so there are more roster spots, but is it really worth it at the expense of all of the people listed above?

I bit my tongue for many years while working for the GBL and it is somewhat refreshing (or disturbing, depending on how you look at it) to read this board and discover that I am not the only person who has seen what has gone on with the GBL over the years. There is a reason that communities like Chico, Yuma, and Long Beach have stopped supporting their teams over the years. The negativity you see on here is result of years of a poorly run league taking advantage of many, many people. The thought of a "super league" being run by many of the same people, throws up a lot of red flags to me.

That being said, I would love nothing more than to see a "super league" succeed. I still have some friends in the business and I would like to get back into the business one day myself. Minor league baseball can be a great asset to many communities around the country, but I just don't think this particular "super league" has the best intentions of the communities it will play in as it's top priority.

[JFeld127]

There is a reason that communities like Chico, Yuma, and Long Beach have stopped supporting their teams over the years.

As someone who spent a couple of years in Long Beach, I'll just say that things were on the upswing at Blair Field in 2009, and there was solid 2010 campaign if not for the City of LB wanting to get Blair Field off its books, resulting in the long-term leasing of the facility to Cal State Long Beach.

When the handwriting was on the wall that the Armada wouldn't be back for 2010, that's when other obligations went unfulfilled. It sucks seeing how it ended, and I know there is a bad taste in some people's mouths from the Armada's last days in Long Beach, but there was certainly potential for success there with the fan base we had.

Here is how things ended up between the GBL and City of LB (http://longbeacharmada.blogspot.com/2010/01/whats-going-on-in-long-beach.html), or at least, that's where I stopped keeping track. It's too bad, because that was a great market with a pretty cool small-town feel despite being part of the big Los Angeles market.

As for Chico and Yuma, I know that fans have soured on those teams for different reasons, but both of those franchises have had success in the past. It was a lot of fun working in this league, and the opportunities it provides for players and people who want to work in baseball are great. I hope it can somehow stay afloat in the future so other folks can have the same opportunities.... but hope isn't exactly a savvy business strategy.

[FlyerFan]

Be watching... there is an announcement to be made any time now about the new North American League....

[preeths]

Here's the release:
http://www.oursportscentral.com/services/releases/?id=4117594

No teams listed yet.

[AZdev]

smallballfan;145645]The annual "we welcome Tijuana to the league" announcement from the GL already? Kind of early, isn't it?

This was too good!! Thanks!
A soon as I saw Tijuana mentioned again, I could not take the press release for this new league seriously. What a joke!!
I do like the idea that these Teams/Leagues will continue to operate under their current banners, while basically playing inter-league games.That way if one league screws up, ie..GBL, the others possibly could still move on in 2012 without being directly affected. I don't like the idea that the GBL seems to be the driving force though.
Unless Hawaii gets another team, Maui has got to go!!! That was ridiculous last season. Changing other team's schedules to accomodate them.
So this new league could help for now, until each league gets back on their feet.

[knucks]

I guess my experience has been relegated to really solid franchises. I played in Lincoln in the American Association, Calgary in the GBL, and most recently for the Skyhawks in the Canam League. I guess, as a player, I just rate how things go by the food in the spread, the playing surface, and the eagerness of the fan base.

I do meet up with opposing players and many have complained about not being paid. The largest complaint usually surrounds the lack of nightlife or available women in their hometown though.

My first experience was with Lincoln; beautiful facility, quality league, great perks ranging from free food and drinks in town to high end baseball equipment and clothing, direct deposit pay, constant media exposure, and a stellar ballpark, playing surface, and jumbo-tron/speaker system. Nothing but professionalism from everyone involved and great fans. Heck, I even got a shoe endorsement deal there.

Perhaps I have been a little spoiled but, from my perspective, I am rooting for roster spots. Roster spots not only means job security but it also means a watering down of talent which, hopefully, can make me look a bit better. Again, the MLB is the goal.

Vendors and sponsors being burned is, obviously, terrible. But, I have been a part of franchises that have really succeeded and garnered a lot of respect in the community. I guess, as my career moves on, I will hope that all the people who have been involved with crashing some of these franchises did it because of growing pains and a learning curve; not out of greed or malice. Naive? Maybe. Thinking this way make me feel better about playing for these leagues? Maybe.

So, here's to hoping for the success of baseball all over this continent.

I do, however, reserve the right to change my mind.

[LivefromChico]

I don't understand why anyone would bother reading 95% of the stuff posted here. I come to this board for possible links to news articles, and I am thankful for those who collect them and post them.

I have been a player for a few years and, as an independent minor leaguer, I am rooting for more roster spots and, perhaps, a more national league to join in order to see more of the country. More roster spots means more job security; more job security means more of an opportunity to become affiliated; I am dead set on my ability to crack the MLB, even for a day.

I am excited for this proposed North American League.

I don't understand all the negativity and bickering here. When I read anonymous crying online I wonder to myself the motivations.

The more I read the more it seems like the members of this board are rooting for the collapse of baseball businesses around the country. In this down economic time the fortune, and turn around, of these businesses will signal the end of the great recession.

The NAL is a bold, perhaps desperate step toward national affiliations. Necessity, even desperate necessity, is the mother of invention. If it works who knows what we will see in the future. It seems to be an exciting time.

Knucks - I would venture to say that the majority of us all love baseball and would love to support their local team. The problem is many of these teams are run by...for lack of a better word...crooks. They make promises to their fans, to their sponsors and to their community partners and then screw them without so much as a kiss on the cheek. At some point or another, all these folks get tired of being taken advantage of and are able to spot the Ponzi scheme before it actually happens.

[E-TownCaps]

Well if it wasn't for all these crooks for owners then you wouldn't have baseball. Just be happy you have baseball to watch.

[Lunkhead]

I do not think for one minute that the franchise owners come into this venture with the idea that they will screw people over. I truly believe they come in with a lack of knowledge and the leagues do not help the owners as long as the league get the franchise fees they are happy. This business is not one that you will get rich from the franchise, it is by best a 5 year plan before you probably truly turn a true profit, the fans do not attend in large numbers, the players expect more then they should it is independent ball not the MLB, sponsors want the world but are not willing to pay the price and of course no league truly cares about the franchise they just care about the fees. Most leagues never truly look at the financial status of the owners and never have a training program to help the franchise succeed. Imagine if McDonalds ran a business like this they would be reselling every franchise every couple of years. So, do not blame just the owners and call them crooks, call them uneducated to the business and call the leagues uneducated to running a franchise. If you look at their business plans I bet it would not read as a scam.:cool:

[amazingdv]

Lunkhead,
Your post was the best I have read on this board. I feel that you speak with a true passion for baseball and to see new leagues and team start up and work for the players, fans and least the owners. However the owners play the biggest part of the whole thing to get it off the ground but they need to understand this from the beginning, they are not going to strike it rich right off of the bat. Even the Major Leagues had to go through pains before they became the large entities they are today.
Team and League owners need to begin to think outside of the box when trying to attract attention and fans to the game. These ideas need to come to surface when budgets and projections are being made at the beginning of the season or operations of the leagues. The ideas need to be true grass root ideas. The cost needs to stay low but also measurable so that the good ideas can be shared with other areas to help increase the attendance and more importantly the passion for the teams by local businesses and fans.
Amazingdv

[LivefromChico]

I do not think for one minute that the franchise owners come into this venture with the idea that they will screw people over. I truly believe they come in with a lack of knowledge and the leagues do not help the owners as long as the league get the franchise fees they are happy. This business is not one that you will get rich from the franchise, it is by best a 5 year plan before you probably truly turn a true profit, the fans do not attend in large numbers, the players expect more then they should it is independent ball not the MLB, sponsors want the world but are not willing to pay the price and of course no league truly cares about the franchise they just care about the fees. Most leagues never truly look at the financial status of the owners and never have a training program to help the franchise succeed. Imagine if McDonalds ran a business like this they would be reselling every franchise every couple of years. So, do not blame just the owners and call them crooks, call them uneducated to the business and call the leagues uneducated to running a franchise. If you look at their business plans I bet it would not read as a scam.:cool:

I don't necessarily disagree with you Lunkhead. You are right that the league only cares about the franchise fees and don't do enough due diligence when it comes to vetting the owners. But there's a part of me that believes that the people behind the GBL knew that their business plan was as complete as Sarah Palin's knowledge of geography. Stanford business grads and they can't look at past examples to see what is a realistic expectation? Maybe they don't start as "crooks", but they certainly become them - i.e., lying about attendance figures so that they can mislead sponsors - sorry, in most states that's called fraud.

[Pounder]

Can I level with you?

If it's fraud, then who's responsible for hauling in a LOT of owners, across every sport at every level?

Who do you haul off at colleges that do the same thing?

The penalties suffered from sponsors pulling out tend to include killing the marriage of owner to franchise anyway.

The same tends to cause owners seeking public financing of the next park to lose their argument.

Maybe it's fraud... but is it worth going to court?

[LivefromChico]

Can I level with you?

If it's fraud, then who's responsible for hauling in a LOT of owners, across every sport at every level?

Who do you haul off at colleges that do the same thing?

The penalties suffered from sponsors pulling out tend to include killing the marriage of owner to franchise anyway.

The same tends to cause owners seeking public financing of the next park to lose their argument.

Maybe it's fraud... but is it worth going to court?

Not sure I understand your point Pounder. My whole point had to do with the skepticism that many of us have regarding the future of the GBL or whatever the hell they plan on calling this collection of Bad News Bears.

When I walk into the stadium and see 247 people and the attendance is listed in the box score as 2,247 - or when I talk to a sponsor who paid to have a promotion done only to find out that the team cashed his check but never actually conducted the promotion - or when I hear about players not being paid for their services - then my BS radar goes on high alert.

"If a man defrauds you one time, he is a rascal; if he does it twice, you are a fool."
Author Unknown