ACPBL-Atlantic Coast Professional Basketball League

[Buffalo Super Fan]

The Buffalo Stampede have joined this league in my opinion. My proof look at the Buffalo Stampede PBL website there having a tryout August 14 and they list Buffalo Stampede Atlantic Coast Professional Basketball League (ACPBL) so I take that is the new league the Buffalo Stampede have joined in my opinion.

I put this is a new sub catagory until oursportscentral decides if they want to give this new league a board or not that is there deccission I hope preeths doesn't mind I put the news here for now. The Buffalo Stampede don't belong on the PBL board anymore so I put them here. I hope it is ok for everyone.

As all of you know the I am a Buffalo Stampede fan that has been critical of the Buffalo Stampede organization in the PBL because I feel the Buffalo Stampede didn't belong in that level of league with the spending the PBL reacquired in my opinion.

I am happy as a Buffalo Stampede fan we are in a lower league ACPBL in my opinion and still playing for the fans of Buffalo that enjoyed this pro basketball club. Why because now the Buffalo Stampede can properly compete which is what it is all about in my opinion.

I don't think the Buffalo crowds will be less because of the switch in leagues in my opinion. Because understand Buffalo it is about having a winning team and in the ACPBL I think the Buffalo Stampede can have a winning team in my opinion. The Buffalo Stampede ACPBL has a chance at one of the 4 ACPBL Playoff spots which in the PBL that wasn't going to be the case in my opinion because of the Buffalo Stampede basketball teams limited funds for the PBL.

As a Buffalo Stampede fan I happy they are going this route because I think things will be better for the Buffalo Stampede in the results win loss catagory. As for the ACPBL as a league who knows we will see? My main concern is the Buffalo Stampede being able to compete which in my opinion now they can. That was always my concern as a Buffalo Stampede fan I didn't like losing 20 plus points on a almost nightly game day basis.

I also want to leave minor league basketball fans and Buffalo pro basketball fans with this nugget. When the Buffalo Stampede ACPBL take the floor in december. It will mark the Buffalo Stampede third season in Buffalo. That is a big deal in my opinon only the Buffalo Braves NBA at eight season in Buffalo lasted longer for professional basketball in Buffalo. The key for the Buffalo Stampede ACPBL in my opinion as a Buffalonian is winning and stablity.

Look at the Buffalo Flash of the USL-Women's League they won the USL Championship last week. Very few in Buffalo knew the Buffalo Flash existed now they know after the won the championship they got coverage. The Buffalo Stampede ACPBL something PBL fans should try to understand is in Buffalo you need to win to make a dent in the Buffalo crowded sports market in my opinion.

We all know about the Buffalo Stampede PBL problems to live in the past does no one any good in my opinion. I hope this is a move that will help the Buffalo Stampede ACPBL. We will have to see on that one but the slate is clean with me as a Buffalo pro basketball fan. Also if it is a disaster I will be the first to post on it here. You guys know me I have my eyes wide open when it comes to the Buffalo Stampede as a fan. I wish the Buffalo Stampede ACPBL well in there new league and I will check it out in the fall. Let's Go Buffalo

[ABARedWhiteBlue]

here is the league website:

http://www.acpbl.com/

5 teams listed so far, but not Buffalo - including the New Hope Trailblazers who played a few games in the ABA last year.

Weekend-only schedule, and a lot of links that don't work. Not too promising...

[robster2001]

...including the New Hope Trailblazers who played a few games in the ABA last year.


From what I can tell, the Trailblazers should be OK in the ACPBL. The high school they play in isn't on top of a hill, after all... :)

[dmbishop]

For the record, the Long Island Lions home court IS at the top a hill!

Dave

[Buffalo Super Fan]

here is the league website:

http://www.acpbl.com/

5 teams listed so far, but not Buffalo - including the New Hope Trailblazers who played a few games in the ABA last year.

Weekend-only schedule, and a lot of links that don't work. Not too promising...

I agree the ACPBL website only certain links work that concerned me too. Also some of the potential teams looked worse off than the Buffalo Stampede in my opinion which is scary too. Again ABARedWhiteBlue I have no inside knowledge because I don't work for the Buffalo Stampede. I am only going on what I saw on the Buffalo Stampede PBL website with a tryout coming up and the team mentions the ACPBL.

My friend told me there was three choices like I said in previous posts. The ACPBL, another league my friend couldn't remember I wish he did or fold competely was also a option. I only going by what my friend told me which isn't much to go on for us Buffalo Stampede fans.

The ACPBL I think is the Buffalo Stampede's choice because if it wasn't why mention that was the league in the tryout announcement on there own website? I am also wondering if the delay joining the ACPBL in my opinion maybe the Buffalo Stampede are waiting to see if certain things happen with the ACPBL development wise with other teams joining before they legally join themselves who knows?

Again just my opinion but I also wouldn't rule out the Buffalo Stampede folding either as a option for some kind of tax purposes or something for the owner again just reaching. Again only my opinion and I am treading water because team ownership isn't anything I know anything about I will be the first to say I have no knowledge on the subject when it comes to stuff like that.

I am only a Buffalo Stampede fan on a sub ACPBL board trying to come up with any possiblity I can think of that might be going on with the Buffalo Stampede with no inside knowledge of the situation. Basically bottom line who knows? All of this should be filed as rumor and the poster me my opinion with no inside knowledge or links so I know nothing more than anyone else at the end of the day. Let's Go Buffalo

[MJHankel]

It's official:

http://www.acpbl.com/latest-news/32-buffalo-stampede-join-atlantic-coast-professional-basketball-league.html

[ABARedWhiteBlue]

It's official:

http://www.acpbl.com/latest-news/32-buffalo-stampede-join-atlantic-coast-professional-basketball-league.html

Hey BSF - here is your giant red flag from the article:

stated ACPBL commissioner James Schutz

The original CornDog owner with a history of, um, "unique" behavior, going back to his ABA days...

[Buffalo Super Fan]

Hey BSF - here is your giant red flag from the article:



The original CornDog owner with a history of, um, "unique" behavior, going back to his ABA days...

Who ever wrote that ACPBL post had my nugget about the Buffalo Stampede being the longest professional team in Buffalo since the Buffalo Braves NBA anyone notice that?

Also I like that we have another Buffalo Stampede owner Richard Anselmo to share the Buffalo Stampede basketball expenses that is a good sign as a Buffalo Stampede fan. I also like the Buffalo Stampede talked about winning a championship I have said in previous post this is very important. You want to tape into the Buffalo sports market winning a championship in the ACPBL does that in my opinion.

Also that the Buffalo Stampede are leaving Canisius College the city of Buffalo for Daemen College. Daemen College is in Amherst a Buffalo suburb. I have not felt this excited about the Buffalo Stampede in two years very excited about the season coming up.

Understand this has nothing to do with the PBL or weather I like the ACPBL. I am just saying some of the moves the Buffalo Stampede are making are smart in my opinion to sure things up. The Buffalo Stampede brought in another owner that I wanted to see.

Amherst is one of Buffalo bigger suburbs at over 116,000 people. I am speaking as a Buffalo Stampede fan not the ACPBL or the other teams but but just from a Buffalo Stampede fans prospective I really like what the team is doing so far.

ABARedWhiteBlue I understand where your coming from a league prospective the ACPBL is dicey in my opinion? But at the end of the day if the Buffalo Stampede can use this league as a stepping stone to build a foundation to build on for the future this league could be really good for the Buffalo Stampede for there development.

Even if the ACPBL only last a year if the Buffalo Stampede win the championship and are a flagship model ACPBL franchise that is the key in my opinion what the Buffalo Stampede does. Because if we are successful and are able to build a bigger fan base at the end of the day we will be better off for another league in the future in my opinion. In minor league basketball nothing is forever who know what the future will bring. I will stand by what I posted before long term for the good of minor league basketball in the state of New York anyway it would benefit everyone if Albany, Buffalo and Rochester are in the same minor basketball league down the road. I really believe that is what is best in the future in my opinion for Albany, Buffalo and Rochester to save on travel cost.

Let's be very honest here ABARedWhiteBlue the Buffalo Stampede weren't ready for the PBL in my opinion as a Buffalo Stampede fan. To me as a Buffalo Stampede fan we need to build a minor league basketball base in Buffalo first. We Buffalo just weren't ready in my opinion for the PBL. Even if everything was perfect and the Buffalo Stampede had the money to spend it would have still been money going out the door wasted in my opinion.

Because Buffalo needs in my opinion to build a core minor league basketball audience in Buffalo first. I think the Amherst move if the Buffalo Stampede can get it done at Daemen College is a smart move in my opinion for now. If I am the Buffalo Stampede basketball franchise you want to fill the gym every game and create a buzz in Buffalo. Then down the road the Buffalo Stampede can look a Alumni Arena at UB in Amherst when they have built up a fan base at Daemen College and need the extra seats. But first the Buffalo Stampede has to fill Daemen College gym first before there ready for Alumni Arena in my opinion. Looking forward to the Buffalo Stampede ACPBL basketball season. Let's Go Buffalo

[Minor League Man]

And now the GreenHawks have joined...only they're the "Washington" GreenHawks now.

http://www.acpbl.com/latest-news/34-greenhawks-move-to-nations-capital-and-join-acpbl.html

[robster2001]

How long before Doyle is Commissioner (or similar) of the ACPBL? Over/under, anyone? :)

[wellington]

"The GreenHawks franchise has been one of the model franchises in all of minor league professional basketball for several years running," stated ACPBL commissioner James Schutz.

No disrespect to the Greenhawks, but you just gotta love these kinds of quotes.

[Buffalo Super Fan]

You guys the bottom line is the ACPBL will have to recruit owners and look for franchises to become anything. My point yes the PBL has high salaries etc so what at the end of the day? At the end of the day basketball fans need to attend these games in all theses leagues no matter who you are or how much you spend in minor league basketball today. I don't like the ACPBL name too long and forget saying your like the D-League I would say nothing and I would have a better name. If I am the ACPBL why would I want to limit myself and try so low. Being like the D-League to me is limiting you growth potential in the future because what is the D-League really?

It is like saying I want to be like Jim at work that makes $100,000? What you don't want to be better then Jim and make more then $100,000 in the future. See that is what I don't get with any of the leadership in these leagues. Go with like Major League Basketball or Major Basketball Association and again not declare but maybe that is just me. Who cares if guys on this board will have a field day let them. Same with the media the ones that even care to begin with. At the end of the day don't limit yourself and basically quit.

Even if I was spending $100,000 on players total I still would look for a brighter day and off course survivial. See if you go MLB or MBA atleast you won't have to change it down the road and if you build though the years you leave a history. Because basically you can never go back after you get it wrong the first time in my opinion. With my league name suggestion I realize I will get blasted here on these boards but at the end of the day so what atleast I tried.

You need gate and in many cities and minor league basketball in general it's just lacking. See I think about Gary L. Davidson you need to have someone strong as a commissioner that can keep it together when the going gets tough and reality hits some of these owners. Yes owners may have good intentions. But I think about one of his quotes in a interview about the WFL he did. At the time 1974 basically they where looking for owners for $3 million committed investment in the WFL. But after the WFL owner lost his first $1 million dollars the other $2 million dollars promised suddenly didn't come from many WFL owners.

See look at minor league basketball like WFL but just on a smaller scale. Who are we to tell some owner to just flat out lose $1 million dollars so it looks legit to Buffalo Super Fan in Buffalo or who ever on these boards so what. See that is the thing I have struggled with since I have been on this board as a fan. I try to put myself in a owners shoes would I want to blow money like that which guarantees you nothing in my opinion at the end of the day?

That is why I struggle with this stuff. The reality is at the end of the day even the D-League is going no where fast in the way of profitability in my opinion for a potential owner to want to buy in because there is little to gain in my opinion. For triple-a basketball that is basically college basketball today in my opinion.

The D-League serves the NBA with development yes but what does it do for a potential investor other then to say were with the NBA as a affliates. See to me labeling a league minor league is DOA to the fans today in my opinion other then minor league baseball and to a lesser extent minor league hockey. But even minor league hockey is struggling in many markets today many should look to go 1970's WHA like many AHL and WHL cities did at that time in history. Fans to me don't want to be labeled minor league there is a stigma to that. This isn't 1950's and 1960's anymore.

See that is one thing I definately agree with Gary L. Davidson declare yourself major league or do what the UFL is doing and don't declare anything. By declaring yourself minor league to me your DOA to many fans today in my opinion. I talked about basketball needs a stronger alternative to the NBA for cities like a Buffalo, Hartford, Tampa, Norfolk or a Louisville as examples and in my opinion it isn't the D-League or PBL we haven't seen it in the US since the orginal ABA in 1967 to 1976.

I am not a economics expert so my numbers will alway be questioned on this board because I am not a economics expert I admit that. I also admit who am I to tell a owner how to spend his or her money. But I will say in my opinion if you want a second potential finacially viable basketball league to the NBA atleast from a owners prospective for profit because at the end of the day that is what it is all about to me none of the current leagues out there today look great to me if I was a investor.

Until we get back to our roots of the original ABA to me I see alot more nonsense and at the end of the day if it's D-League, PBL, todays ABA, WBA or ACPBL what does it matter all the owners in my opinion are going to take a finacial bath just varying degrees of loses. I will always say go big or go home in my opinion.

The only league that I see as different and as new league to keep a eye on is the UFL. And yes I realize there losing money but atleast there doing it in a way to me where it has a chance down the road if the UFL owners can hang on. I like to see basketball and hockey alternates more like the UFL and less like the PBL, D-League and AHL etc. The AHL to me is ripe for the pickings if owners with money get into some of these good hockey markets like Quebec City, Winnipeg and Hartford and promise the hockey fans something better then the AHL today and more like the WHA of yesterday in my opinion. Let's Go Buffalo

[LightningMan]

Taking on the NBA is suicide. It's more likely that you can find a way to make money being an excellent minor league than being a second rate NBA.

[Buffalo Super Fan]

Taking on the NBA is suicide. It's more likely that you can find a way to make money being an excellent minor league than being a second rate NBA.

Lightning your missing my point. You can't make money in minor league basketball with the college basketball game available in so many of the top markets outside the NBA it is useless in my opinion. I am not talking taking on the NBA the UFL isn't taking on the NFL. I talking something like that UFL or WNBA standards for a second basketball league in this country. Where your not taking on the NBA but your also not fly by night with your owners, league cities selections and arenas etc which I see too much of on the minor league basketball level as a fan.

Minor League basketball fans want to talk being the triple-a to the NBA or double-a with rookie league or single-a or less owners and buildings it isn't happening in my opinion. You got PBL people talking smack to WBA or IBL it is silly as a fan there all the same to varying degrees and going no where fast in my opinion as a league and business opportunity.

Leagues like D-League and PBL etc just isn't what is acceptable in my opinion to the american sports fans today in great numbers. Also what I am saying is fans don't like players going up and down. You want to know Jimmy Smith is going to be there for the year and that you have control of his contract for the length of it like the UFL, WNBA, MLS and NLL etc. What I am saying is the second league or alternative basketball league should be like the UFL or WNBA it has to have standards and not the D-League and PBL. That is my point for it to have a chance in my opinion. When I talk standards I am not talking Yuma or Bakersfield as your choice of cities for such a league. I am talking much larger cities like a Buffalo, Louisville, Pittsburgh and Hartford that don't have NBA teams and most likely never will without the small timers cities, owners and leagues trying to act like big shots with no money and basically no hope in my opinion. Yes I would take a UFL style basketball league over the D-League and PBL if I had a choice as a basketball fan. Let's Go Buffalo

[LightningMan]

Lightning, you're missing my point. You can't make money in minor league basketball with the college basketball game available in so many of the top markets outside the NBA
There you go again. Who cares (in this discussion) about the top markets? That's the whole point. Any major market worth a damn is either covered by the NBA or by a major college. Trying to find under-served large markets in a 30 team NBA plus D-League is a pipe dream.

I am not talking taking on the NBA. The UFL isn't taking on the NFL. I'm talking something like that UFL or WNBA standards for a second basketball league in this country.
It's called the D-League. Do you not understand what level of basketball is left to be covered?

Minor League basketball fans want to talk being the triple-a to the NBA...
The D-League already has that job.

...or double-a with rookie league or single-a or less, owners and buildings it isn't happening in my opinion.
It's the only level outside of the D-League that it can happen. And it can be done. The PBL is being forced into the regional cluster model to reduce travel. The CBL and WBA have the same idea. Minor league basketball is working these things out. But it would help if a certain league wasn't torching markets every time you blink.

Leagues like the D-League and PBL etc just isn't what is acceptable in my opinion to the american sports fans today in great numbers.
No one is looking for great numbers at this level. You keep acting like the league should be looking at bringing in 10K people a game. The D-League can't do it. Heck, half the time the NBA can't do it.

Also what I am saying is fans don't like players going up and down. You want to know Jimmy Smith is going to be there for the year and that you have control of his contract for the length of it like the UFL, WNBA, MLS and NLL etc.
Sports fans are not as resistant to this as you think. Players get traded all the time at the major league level. Players get injured. Sure, nobody likes that a favorite player could disappear at this level, but it's not that big a deal.

What I am saying is the second league or alternative basketball league should be like the UFL or WNBA. It has to have standards and not the D-League and PBL.
What standards are you talking about here? The WNBA is subsidized by NBA teams in most of the markets they're in. Do you want this minor league of yours to play in large, one third filled arenas? Is that your standard?

3K people in a 3K arena is a success. 3K people in a 5K arena can work. 3K people in a 10K arena is a huge failure.

When I talk standards I am not talking Yuma or Bakersfield as your choice of cities for such a league. I am talking much larger cities like a Buffalo, Louisville, Pittsburgh and Hartford that don't have NBA teams and most likely never will without the small timers cities, owners and leagues trying to act like big shots with no money and basically no hope in my opinion.
There is no level of pro basketball that will work in those situations. Each one has pitfalls that I won't go into. If you're a big city and you don't have an NBA team or D-League team, there is generally a reason.

Yes I would take a UFL style basketball league over the D-League and PBL if I had a choice as a basketball fan.
You keep referring to the UFL as your model and aside from the one picture you posted of a too-large arena, I know nothing about them. Could you, instead of referencing the UFL, just explain what kind of standards you're seeking?

[Buffalo Super Fan]

There you go again. Who cares (in this discussion) about the top markets? That's the whole point. Any major market worth a damn is either covered by the NBA or by a major college. Trying to find under-served large markets in a 30 team NBA plus D-League is a pipe dream.


It's called the D-League. Do you not understand what level of basketball is left to be covered?


The D-League already has that job.


It's the only level outside of the D-League that it can happen. And it can be done. The PBL is being forced into the regional cluster model to reduce travel. The CBL and WBA have the same idea. Minor league basketball is working these things out. But it would help if a certain league wasn't torching markets every time you blink.


No one is looking for great numbers at this level. You keep acting like the league should be looking at bringing in 10K people a game. The D-League can't do it. Heck, half the time the NBA can't do it.


Sports fans are not as resistant to this as you think. Players get traded all the time at the major league level. Players get injured. Sure, nobody likes that a favorite player could disappear at this level, but it's not that big a deal.


What standards are you talking about here? The WNBA is subsidized by NBA teams in most of the markets they're in. Do you want this minor league of yours to play in large, one third filled arenas? Is that your standard?

3K people in a 3K arena is a success. 3K people in a 5K arena can work. 3K people in a 10K arena is a huge failure.


There is no level of pro basketball that will work in those situations. Each one has pitfalls that I won't go into. If you're a big city and you don't have an NBA team or D-League team, there is generally a reason.


You keep referring to the UFL as your model and aside from the one picture you posted of a too-large arena, I know nothing about them. Could you, instead of referencing the UFL, just explain what kind of standards you're seeking?

What kind of standards am I seeking one higher then the D-League. The D-League pays about $25,000 for the season per player not enough to keep the good players from going to Europe. So I guess that is the kind of standard I am seeking higher pay for better quality players staying in the US to watch.

The UFL is trying to be the second best football league in the world behind the NFL. Right now the UFL is behind the CFL in my opinion but it won't be for long the way there going. Look at the name players the UFL has and then look at the no names that the D-League because of lack of salary. Your never see a Dante Culpepper of the Sacramento Mountain Lions UFL play in the D-League because that type of player isn't going to try and revie has career in the D-League due to the low salaries 25,000 on average per player doesn't cut it.

Look even the old CBA had player-coaches like former Los Angeles Lakers NBA Cazzie Russell play for the Philadelphia Kings CBA that can't happen today because of the low salaries in my opinion. That is what I am talking about. Face it the D-League sucks compared to the old CBA that had veterans basketball players NBA fans atleast heard of. The D-League doesn't cut it with the low salaries your not seeing the second best players stay and play in the D-League it is a myth. All the D-League has going for it is the NBA tie outside of the that it is a bad league and the CBA was better plus at one time the CBA had ESPN tv coverage.

Guys out of college might play a year or two of D-League and then when reality hits them and the NBA isn't calling anytime soon it isn't worth it to make no money in the D-League when you can make alot more money in Europe.

When I mention WNBA I am refering to decent major league arenas with major league tv courage ESPN etc. Outside of versus tv once in a while on tape delay. The D-League is mostly on NBA TV in the afternoon on tape delay. Cities like Bakersfield no offense to Bakersfield intended is never going to cut it always hanging on with all there trouble. Because cities like that aren't ready for prime time ever in my opinion in the first place. The NBA went about D-League all wrong and that is why it is failing in my opinion. Not everything David Stern touches turns to gold. I don't believe that a UFL style independent basketball league with standards away from the NBA league can't make it done right today.

I don't buy all the negativity on this board so we can agree to disagree. Because I believe someday investors will try a UFL style independent major basketball league non compete against the NBA. Meaning it won't be minor league because standards will be higher like the UFL but it won't be NBA either so it would be in the middle.

For major league markets only meaning if your under 1 million metro as a city your not getting in to embarrass the new league with your small time city views of what is major league standards as a example for the fans. So your not playing in high school gyms and asking fans in the stands to coach that night because the coach just quit 30 minutes ago because he wasn't paid as a example. Your not having trouble with low pay or even worse guys not being paid at all in weeks. You not hearing about teams skipping town without paying hotel bills or just not showing up at all etc. That nonsense isn't happening because the expansion fee will be high like the UFL to keep jokers/bad owners out that are what I call small timers that have no business in professional sports in my opinion. The 1970's was way better then what we have today. Everybody thinks there a big shot today with the A, B and C basketball leagues out there. Atleast in the 1970's we had NBA, ABA and Eastern League renamed CBA. Today we have NBA, D-League, PBL, WBA, ABA, ACPBL and IBL to many leagues in my opinion. Let's Go Buffalo

[LightningMan]

What kind of standards am I seeking? One higher than the D-League. The D-League pays about $25,000 for the season per player, not enough to keep the good players from going to Europe. So I guess that is the kind of standard I am seeking: higher pay for better quality players staying in the US to watch.
And what are they supposed to pay them with?

blah...blah...blah UFL blah...blah...blah

Look, even the old CBA had player-coaches like former Los Angeles Lakers NBA Cazzie Russell play for the Philadelphia Kings [in the] CBA. That can't happen today because of the low salaries in my opinion.
It's also tougher being a player coach then ever. Remember, it used to happen in the NBA too and their salaries are astronomical now.

That is what I am talking about. Face it, the D-League sucks compared to the old CBA that had veteran basketball players NBA fans at least heard of. The D-League doesn't cut it with the low salaries. You're not seeing the second best players stay and play in the D-League; it is a myth. All the D-League has going for it is the NBA tie. Outside of the that, it is a bad league and the CBA was better. Plus at one time the CBA had ESPN tv coverage.
And now the CBA has one team. The CBA blew what they had. Time to move on.

Guys out of college might play a year or two of D-League and then when reality hits them and the NBA isn't calling anytime soon it isn't worth it to make no money in the D-League when you can make a lot more money in Europe.
Yeah. So?

When I mention WNBA I am refering to decent major league arenas with major league tv courage ESPN etc.
And if they weren't subsidized by the NBA, they wouldn't have either.

Outside of versus tv once in a while on tape delay, the D-League is mostly on NBA TV in the afternoon on tape delay.
It's a minor league. I don't think you're getting it. How often do you see the Durham Bulls or Lake Erie Monsters on ESPN?

Cities like Bakersfield (no offense to Bakersfield intended) are never going to cut it, always hanging on with all their trouble, because cities like that aren't ready for prime time ever in my opinion in the first place.
Minor league basketball isn't prime time. It's Saturday afternoon local access.

The NBA went about [the] D-League all wrong and that is why it is failing in my opinion. Not everything David Stern touches turns to gold.
That may very well be.

I don't believe that a UFL style independent basketball league with standards away from the NBA league can't make it done right today.
If half the NBA teams struggle to get 10K a night and have trouble making money with national television contracts and merchandise sales, how in the world do you expect putting a more expensive minor league product in markets where NBA basketball has failed is going to make money (or lose as little as possible)?

I don't buy all the negativity on this board so we can agree to disagree, because I believe someday investors will try a UFL style independent major basketball league non compete against the NBA, meaning it won't be minor league because standards will be higher like the UFL but it won't be NBA either so it would be in the middle.
Unless it is in direct competition with the NBA, it would be minor league. And if such a league could exist, it would form out of the remnants of the D-League. But unless interest in basketball grows tremendously, your belief will not come to fruition.

[It would be] for major league markets only, meaning if you're under 1 million metro as a city you're not getting in to embarrass the new league with your small time city views of what is major league standards as a example for the fans.
The cities don't even exist for you to build this league off of. There are, what 28 NBA markets. What larger markets aren't being served? St. Louis? Cincinnati? If you're a decent size city, you've probably already had an NBA or ABA team at one point.

So you're not playing in high school gyms and asking fans in the stands to coach that night because the coach just quit 30 minutes ago because he wasn't paid as a example. Your not having trouble with low pay or even worse guys not being paid at all in weeks. You not hearing about teams skipping town without paying hotel bills or just not showing up at all etc. That nonsense isn't happening because the expansion fee will be high like the UFL to keep jokers/bad owners out that are what I call small timers that have no business in professional sports in my opinion.
It's good to keep the lower echelon people out, but if you have big enough money to do your league, then you have big enough money to buy an NBA franchise.

The 1970's was way better than what we have today.
But girls are prettier now.

Everybody thinks they're a big shot today with the A, B and C basketball leagues out there. At least in the 1970's we had NBA, ABA and Eastern League renamed CBA. Today we have NBA, D-League, PBL, WBA, ABA, ACPBL and IBL, too many leagues in my opinion.
How many cities were in the NBA? How many ABA cities survived the merger? Where did the cities in the CBA go? The number of leagues will sort themselves out. People will fold when they can't pay the bills. And the weird thing is, you want to add one more league. *sigh*

[turbocamyes]

In many ways you're describing the original IBL and the ABA2K from 1999-00 & 2000-01 seasons when teams were located in major cities without NBA teams. Both leagues had former NBA players who were finishing their careers and future ones just out of college. The problem was that nobody had deep pockets and both leagues failed.

The appetite for professional basketball is different than it is for football. Just in terms of attendance you’d need to hit numbers 2 to 3 times what the IBL and ABA2K did in their first year (3,050 & 1,725.) And with the UFL, they averaged only 9,300 per game last year. They won’t survive another year like that.

[Buffalo Super Fan]

And what are they supposed to pay them with?




It's also tougher being a player coach then ever. Remember, it used to happen in the NBA too and their salaries are astronomical now.


And now the CBA has one team. The CBA blew what they had. Time to move on.


Yeah. So?


And if they weren't subsidized by the NBA, they wouldn't have either.


It's a minor league. I don't think you're getting it. How often do you see the Durham Bulls or Lake Erie Monsters on ESPN?


Minor league basketball isn't prime time. It's Saturday afternoon local access.


That may very well be.


If half the NBA teams struggle to get 10K a night and have trouble making money with national television contracts and merchandise sales, how in the world do you expect putting a more expensive minor league product in markets where NBA basketball has failed is going to make money (or lose as little as possible)?


Unless it is in direct competition with the NBA, it would be minor league. And if such a league could exist, it would form out of the remnants of the D-League. But unless interest in basketball grows tremendously, your belief will not come to fruition.


The cities don't even exist for you to build this league off of. There are, what 28 NBA markets. What larger markets aren't being served? St. Louis? Cincinnati? If you're a decent size city, you've probably already had an NBA or ABA team at one point.


It's good to keep the lower echelon people out, but if you have big enough money to do your league, then you have big enough money to buy an NBA franchise.


But girls are prettier now.


How many cities were in the NBA? How many ABA cities survived the merger? Where did the cities in the CBA go? The number of leagues will sort themselves out. People will fold when they can't pay the bills. And the weird thing is, you want to add one more league. *sigh*

Look you like the situation of minor league basketball today wonderful good for you but most of america doesn't care and it shows in the attendance line in the boxscore every night if the league cares to report the low attendance that night. Don't go by a few posters like us we are the exception not the rule that care at all.

The bottom line if all theses minor basketball leagues folded today basketball would be better off including the D-League that moves teams all around like music chairs. We are better off to just start over completely with standards and if it can't be don't then shut it all down till the US economy gets better and america is ready to accept minor league basketball which I have real doubts that minor league basketball is even sell able anymore in america.

The way I see it the CBA was like a fad like the hula hoop or the MISL it had a period in time were fans supported it. You can put down the original ABA all you want but it was light years ahead of the garbage we have today. The original ABA I feel is the only way americans will accept another basketball league other then the NBA. You mention money and I told you I am not a economics majors and you refuse to understand that. I am a sports fan with a opinion on a message board that is all.

You just can't sell this minor league basketball product today in any great numbers except for a city or two that is a isolated situation and not the normal with minimal sports options for that said city. Minor league products struggle with the exception of minor league baseball. And even that works because one it is americas pasttime and two fans like being outdoors expecially in the northeast where we are mostly indoors in the winter and like to do things outside.

Americans in my opinion want the best they don't accept minor leagues anymore. I find the younger the fan that is even more the case that I have talked too. We live in a ESPN sports world today weather we that grew up before ESPN like it or not it just is the way it is today. The attention span in my opinion is less today. Fans get updated on blackberries etc there not going to golds gym to watch a minor league basketball game on the third floor if that hurts you I am sorry it hurts me too but it just is the way it is today with todays fans.

That is why the only way in my opinion that a second basketball league of any kind has a chance to excite the masses today is like what Gary L. Davidson leagues did in the 1970's. Outside that I see no chance for any of these leagues in basketball in my opinion. Was Gary L. Davidson way perfect no it wasn't but atleast 4 ABA teams did survive the ABA NBA merger. Same for the WHA NHL merger. That is alot better then where these leagues today are going which is no where but on someones tax lost/write off form after they fold or move said team. You go on and on but have no solution just alot of oh it will sort its way out.

No it won't five and ten years from now fans will be on this board saying owner joe blow didn't pay his players in whatever the leagues are called at that time and he is mad and starting his on pathetic league in the owners version of taking his ball and going home because he couldn't play nice, work well and get along with others. I might be just a fan but I know enough about what I see to know things are never going to change until the standards change in my opinion and yes that is called spending some money or don't do it at all. The standards are way to low and your making excuses like it is acceptable and I am saying no it isn't.

I would rather have no basketball other then NBA and college basketball if this is the standard we have to accept it stinks in my opinion for the fans not knowing if the team will play and in what league year to year that is no way to run any sports league no matter what the sport sorry you don't agree. So we can agree to disagree. Let's Go Buffalo

[Buffalo Super Fan]

In many ways you're describing the original IBL and the ABA2K from 1999-00 & 2000-01 seasons when teams were located in major cities without NBA teams. Both leagues had former NBA players who were finishing their careers and future ones just out of college. The problem was that nobody had deep pockets and both leagues failed.

The appetite for professional basketball is different than it is for football. Just in terms of attendance you’d need to hit numbers 2 to 3 times what the IBL and ABA2K did in their first year (3,050 & 1,725.) And with the UFL, they averaged only 9,300 per game last year. They won’t survive another year like that.

Last year was a preview season for the UFL. This year is in my opinion is the real test for the UFL weather they are going to make it or not. That isn't making excuses because to me they should have held off last year because they weren't ready in my opinion.

This year is the real test for the UFL with Omaha, Sacramento, Hartford coming in. If the UFL can't excited in those cities this year at those cheap season ticket cost of starting at just $60 then I agree with you 100%. But right now it is too early to just write off the UFL just yet. I think they learned something last year with getting out of the major major league cities like the New York's and the San Francisco's where the UFL wasn't going to fly ever over the NFL or other major league options like NBA, MLB and NHL. Let's see how they do in what I call second tier major league cities which I live in one myself in Buffalo of just over a 1 million metro.

Where in Hartford, Omaha and Sacramento there isn't as much sports competition and alot of things to do just like Buffalo in my opinion. If the UFL still strugles with under 10,000 then yes the UFL will be the titanic I agree with you then. But till the end of the UFL season let's hold off for now. I just have a feeling the UFL is going to do alot better this season for some reason. Maybe it is because I like the cities there in now more like Omaha where UFL season ticket sales are good, then last year even through Las Vegas doesn't excite me much still they may have to be move because nothing team sports wise seems to excite Las Vegas in my opinion other then UNLV basketball. Let's Go Buffalo

[LightningMan]

The bottom line: if all these minor basketball leagues folded today basketball would be better off...
The fans of the teams in the PBL and other leagues would disagree.

Fans...[a]re not going to Gold's Gym to watch a minor league basketball game on the third floor
But they will go to Barre Audiorium, or the Schwartz Center.

You seem to want to stop those that are trying to do it right because of those who are doing it wrong. Doesn't make sense to me.

That is why the only way in my opinion that a second basketball league of any kind has a chance to excite the masses today...
Again, you're trying to talk about numbers that cannot happen because the big markets are all served.

You go on and on but have no solution just a lot of "Oh, it will sort its way out. "
I have plenty of solutions for things I believe are problems. I don't believe smaller markets and smaller venues and lesser talent and lesser ticket prices is a problem.

And I do believe it will sort itself out because economic problems always do in the capitalist system. People will find a way to make money in the current environment in minor league basketball or there won't be minor league basketball. With the D-League having the corner on the market of second best to the NBA, any other league has to concentrate on minimal travel costs, affordable talent, and professional operations within budget. You don't want that. I do. But then again, I have a team in my town.

The standards are way too low and you're making excuses like it is acceptable and I am saying no it isn't.
I think standards need to be higher than the current ABA. I think the CBL and PBL need to do better than they are doing. But I think your standard is ridiculous and I don't bash any league that appears to be trying to move in the right direction.

I would rather have no basketball other than NBA and college basketball if this is the standard we have to accept.
And I would rather have a team than not have a team.

It stinks in my opinion for the fans not knowing if the team will play and in what league year to year. That is no way to run any sports league no matter what the sport. Sorry you don't agree.
Who says I don't agree? I do agree with this paragraph.

What I don't agree with is your saying "Let's shut down the PBL and the CBL and the WBA because they're not run like the CBA in the 70s." There are fundamental things these leagues should do. There needs to be stable ownership, good fiscal control, actual record keeping. But again, I am not ready to kill what is when it can be grown into what it needs to be.

[Irving Thomas]

Is this league still operating? I try to check n the website but get an error instead..

[Buffalo Super Fan]

Is this league still operating? I try to check n the website but get an error instead..

As far as I know yes. But this is minor league basketball so who knows? Maybe there redoing the website or something when you checked in just a thought because it just worked for me now. Let's Go Buffalo

[Buffalo Super Fan]

The fans of the teams in the PBL and other leagues would disagree.


But they will go to Barre Audiorium, or the Schwartz Center.

You seem to want to stop those that are trying to do it right because of those who are doing it wrong. Doesn't make sense to me.


Again, you're trying to talk about numbers that cannot happen because the big markets are all served.


I have plenty of solutions for things I believe are problems. I don't believe smaller markets and smaller venues and lesser talent and lesser ticket prices is a problem.

And I do believe it will sort itself out because economic problems always do in the capitalist system. People will find a way to make money in the current environment in minor league basketball or there won't be minor league basketball. With the D-League having the corner on the market of second best to the NBA, any other league has to concentrate on minimal travel costs, affordable talent, and professional operations within budget. You don't want that. I do. But then again, I have a team in my town.


I think standards need to be higher than the current ABA. I think the CBL and PBL need to do better than they are doing. But I think your standard is ridiculous and I don't bash any league that appears to be trying to move in the right direction.


And I would rather have a team than not have a team.


Who says I don't agree? I do agree with this paragraph.

What I don't agree with is your saying "Let's shut down the PBL and the CBL and the WBA because they're not run like the CBA in the 70s." There are fundamental things these leagues should do. There needs to be stable ownership, good fiscal control, actual record keeping. But again, I am not ready to kill what is when it can be grown into what it needs to be.

You and I can agree to disagree. I can only comment on the PBL which I have seen live in action and I can honestly say inless there is a mircle? And I do believe in mircles living in Buffalo and watching the Buffalo Bills comeback from 32 points down to beat the Houston Oilers in a 1992 Wildcard game. I don't think the PBL can be fixed to anyones liking really. To me the PBL is below the RHI atleast the RHI was in major league arena with fan comforts like modern food operations and replay boards etc.

The PBL is beyond fixing in my opinion because the money just isn't there in my opinion from enough business people to make it a viable league to rent HSBC Arena as a example. I understand you believe in minor league basketball great but we disagree that enough paying fans believe in minor league basketball to make it viable in today's times 1970's CBA isn't workable either in today's times. I hope I am wrong for all the believers like you.

But as a fan I don't see it in the PBL. I think your missing my point. In my opinion minor league sports outside of minor league baseball and pockets of minor league hockey cities many minor league hockey teams are in trouble long term in my opinion. I see the 1970's starting to happen again where yes the economy plays a factor but also people that buy tickets are looking for value.

Not value in being cheap tickets. But value in being worth there time and money and effort to even bother. This why I think you might down the road see many of these cities go ABA, WHA and WFL which is happening with UFL today. Look at Rochester Amerks a traditionally great minor league AHL city having alot of trouble filling seats because young fans today would rather see the NHL Buffalo Sabres nearby or just stay home and watch tv or go on the internet to watch or worse not even bother at all meaning there not growing up sports fans like you and I.

In Hartford with the AHL Wolf Pack failing in Hartford. Now there are rumors all over about Howard Baldwin buying the Hartford Wolf Pack and renaming them the Connecticut Whalers AHL basically after there major league WHA New England Whalers then NHL Hartford Whalers. Look I am 42 years old and still watch Buffalo Braves NBA games I have on DVD like it was yesterday and it was 32 years ago. Fans just don't turn there major league feelings off. In large cities we think of ourselves as major league no matter what so economist tells you with a computer we are big league and that is what we deserve.
Fans don't want to be minor league that is what you don't understand. I will give you a example I am at McDonald's I buy a burger and fries in Buffalo. That isn't any different then the McDonald's in Los Angeles or Rochester. Fans don't want to be minor league and different in my opinion or thought as less of a city. People have pride in there hometowns and they want big league that just the way it is. Look at Buffalo the Buffalo Stampede PBL at the Canisius KAC minor league 700 fans a game. Buffalo Bandits NLL major league indoor lacrosse best lacrosse players in the world outside of the other league MLL outdoor lacrosse league. Buffalo Bandits NLL drew a average of 16,000 plus a game at HSBC Arena a big league arena. 16,000 to 700 I rest my case.

I don't think of myself or my city as minor league never did. Even the Buffalo Bisons IL who are minor league but are the exception to that rule because it is baseball and even them I don't think of as minor league. I still have good food and replay board like the big leagues. I don't care if Los Angeles has 50 million more people then Buffalo there not anymore more special in whatever sports fans mind weather it is Louisville or Buffalo.

Fans want major league sports. Just because the big four has this artificial cap on expansion teams doesn't mean fans in Louisville should not have Kentucky Colonels level ABA basketball not Buffalo Stampede level PBL basketball we have no money basketball that is garbage. That is why minor league sports are in my opinion finished long term. Just because everyone tells you oh no one can ever take on the NBA or NHL doesn't mean it can't be done. That is what I don't get with you Lightning Man you settle for minor league and lower standards when these cities like Louisville deserve professional basketball Kentucky Colonels back. And come to think about it Buffalo deserves the Buffalo Braves back not some johnny come lately basketball league PBL no one has really ever heard of outside this board with little to no money.

I like you as a poster but I think you need to change with the times. Today's fans don't think or want to be minor league like the 1950's and 1960's they want the best and to have something they can be proud of. Who cares what some clown in Los Angeles or New York City has to say about Buffalo or Louisville back in major professional basketball again.

You realize both cities were screwed Louisville and Buffalo and they tie together FYI with professional basketball history. Louisville was owned by John Y. Brown and his wife at the time Ellie Brown. When Louisvile wasn't going to be let into the NBA because Chicago Bulls owned the NBA rights to center Artis Gilmore and there was a agenda to make sure hell or high water Louisville wasn't getting into the NBA by the Chicago Bulls owners at the time remember this was before Michael Jordan. Anyway the NBA pays off John Y. Brown to go away and fold with Louisville's Kentucky Colonels. He takes that money and buys 50% of the Buffalo Braves NBA which eventually becomes majority share.

John Y. Brown screws Buffalo by selling off all our talented players like Bob McAdoo and replacing it with old Kentucky Colonels he has still under ABA contracts long term from ABA days and sells the Buffalo Braves down the river. A Post Script Buffalo almost got the Kentucky Colonels to move to Buffalo. The Buffalo Braves almost moved to Hollywood, Florida a year before the sale to John Y. Brown but that sale fell through if they Buffalo Braves moved then the Kentucky Colonels were thinking of playing in the NBA as the Buffalo Colonels or Buffalo whatever the new name.

So either way we got alot of the Kentucky Colonels players just not the good ones like Artis Gilmore and Dan Issel. St. Louis Spirits got the best deal of all the percentage of the NBA tv contract for life the two brothers that owned the Spirits of St. Louis in the ABA who if they would of lasted would have moved to Salt Lake City, Utah. The morel of the story Buffalo and Louisville and alot of cities like that are major league cities not minor league cities in my opinion so we can agree to disagree.

The bottom line I understand what you are saying there is a place for the PBL in smaller more excepting cities and I am saying no there isn't. Because leagues like the PBL to make them legit in my opinion without all the funny business that has gone on so far needs larger population areas to survive and make the PBL viable long term to what many PBL fans and basketball fans want. That is where we disagree LightningMan small cities that might accept the PBL like Vermont are just to small long term to be ever really finacially viable without having telethons ever year to save the team. Let's Go Buffalo

[runninref]

BSF, wondering if you have ever been to a Razorsharks home game. If so, then your perspective of minor league ball would be much different. It is viable in Rochester. It is also viable in some of the other PBL cities and other leagues have pockets of fans as well. Granted, for the most part, minor league basketball is dead, however, there are areas of the country that are alive and well. And just so you know, I have no beef with you. Just wanting you to see things through non Buffalo glasses from time to time.:mrgreen:

[LightningMan]

The PBL is beyond fixing in my opinion because the money just isn't there in my opinion from enough business people to make it a viable league to rent HSBC Arena as a example.
But if, as I do, you don't think they need to be renting HSBC Arena in the first place, this is not a problem.

I see the 1970s starting to happen again where, yes, the economy plays a factor but also people that buy tickets are looking for value, not value in being cheap tickets, but value in being worth their time and money and effort to even bother.
Again, though, you have big league mentality. For you it's not worth $8 to sit in a junior college gym on a bench and watch low level basketball. For me, it is worth it.

In large cities we think of ourselves as major league no matter what so[me] economist tells you with a computer. We are big league and that is what we deserve.
And that's why it won't work in Buffalo. The opportunity is in places like Wilmington.

Fans don't want to be minor league. That is what you don't understand.
Fans in Buffalo, no. Fans in Wilmington? Yes.

I will give you a example I am at McDonald's I buy a burger and fries in Buffalo. That isn't any different then the McDonald's in Los Angeles or Rochester.
And yet some people don't want McDonald's at all and would rather have a spiedie from the local sandwich shop.

People have pride in their hometowns and they want big league that just the way it is.
If I want to see a big league game, I go to Charlotte (or back home to Cleveland). If I want to have some fun for cheap in Wilmington, I go the Schwartz Center.

Fans want major league sports. Just because the big four ha[ve] this artificial cap on expansion teams doesn't mean fans in Louisville should not have Kentucky Colonels level ABA basketball, not Buffalo Stampede level PBL basketball.
Do you honestly think that if someone for one second thought they'd make money with an NBA team in Kentucky there wouldn't be one there? NBA teams are having a hard time drawing crowds. The Detroit Pistons are in danger of being sold and moved. No one is denying Louisville NBA basketball. No one thinks they want it enough to make it pay.

Just because everyone tells you "Oh, no one can ever take on the NBA or NHL" doesn't mean it can't be done.
What means it can't be done is simply that there are not enough underserved towns with a large population to be attractive enough to people with googobs of money to where they think it's a winning proposition.

That is what I don't get with you Lightning Man; you settle for minor league and lower standards when these cities like Louisville deserve professional basketball Kentucky Colonels back.
It's not about settling or deserving. It's about economics and location. Your level of basketball isn't happening. It doesn't make money sense. My level of basketball might.

And come to think about it Buffalo deserves the Buffalo Braves back, not some johnny come lately basketball league PBL no one has really ever heard of outside this board with little to no money.
Not to be mean, but if Buffalo "deserved" the Braves, they wouldn't be the LA Clippers right now, would they?

I like you as a poster but I think you need to change with the times. Today's fans don't think or want to be minor league like the 1950's and 1960's. They want the best and to have something they can be proud of.
I sort of almost agree with you. My team is one of the best at this level of basketball. And I am proud of that. But if I want the NBA, as I said before, I'll go to Charlotte or Cleveland. I'm not looking for that here in my small town that you don't seem to think "deserves" professional basketball. I'm looking for a good time on a Friday night for relatively cheap. Just about the time of a movie for just about the cost and more fun than most of the movies out there. You don't want it. I'll take it.

Who cares what some clown in Los Angeles or New York City has to say about Buffalo or Louisville back in major professional basketball again?
They should. Because that's the only way they're getting big league ball back, is if they're invited to the big show. There will be no new ABA type of major league. It will not happen.

The moral of the story: Buffalo and Louisville and a lot of cities like that are major league cities not minor league cities in my opinion so we can agree to disagree.
Sometimes you as a city just have to face the fact that you're not major league in everything. Cleveland isn't a major league hockey town. Pittsburgh isn't a major league basketball town. Buffalo isn't a major league basketball town.

The bottom line I understand what you are saying: there is a place for the PBL in smaller more, [ac]cepting cities and I am saying "No there isn't. Because leagues like the PBL to make them legit in my opinion without all the funny business that has gone on so far needs larger population areas to survive and make the PBL viable long term to what many PBL fans and basketball fans want.
Larger population areas are not the PBL's problem. The PBL's problem is underfunded owners and bad market choices. They need people with some money in places just like Halifax and Saint John, places that are close enough to each other so that travel is not a problem.

That is where we disagree LightningMan. Small cities that might accept the PBL like Vermont are just too small long term to be ever really finacially viable without having telethons ever year to save the team.
Bash Vermont all you want, but places like Rochester, Lawton, Wilmington, and Halifax have been doing this thing for three or four years now with no telethons and all of that. The whole thing is controlling costs while putting out a good product. Figure that out and you'll be fine.

A model for this level of basketball is developing. And I believe once there are a few solid geographic cores where travel costs are kept down, there will be a viable second tier minor league.

And I wouldn't deny any of those towns their teams to pursue your pipe dream of a competitive major league. Sorry.

[zeke41]

Hey Lightening Man...thanks for the support by the way. I heard you called into the CBL radio show supporting our decision to move towards, shall we say, greener pastures!

This coming CBL season is shaping up to be very exciting. Hopefully we head over to Wilmington for a trip this season! We'll see!

[Buffalo Super Fan]

I heard the ACPBL has there meetings coming up in New York City anyone hear anything what is going on with the ACPBL league and number of teams etc who is in other then the Buffalo Stampede and Maryland Greenhawks now Washington Greenhawks from the PBL? Any other name teams joining from other basketball leagues? Let's Go Buffalo

[turbocamyes]

Any other name teams joining from other basketball leagues? Let's Go Buffalo

The Beltway Bombers, Garden State Rebels and True Hope Trailblazers are from the EBA. Not sure where the New York Lions are from.

[runninref]

ummm ... just a guess here, but ... New York? Sorry, couldn't resist the "Sam Hill" moment.:D

[Buffalo Super Fan]

BSF, wondering if you have ever been to a Razorsharks home game. If so, then your perspective of minor league ball would be much different. It is viable in Rochester. It is also viable in some of the other PBL cities and other leagues have pockets of fans as well. Granted, for the most part, minor league basketball is dead, however, there are areas of the country that are alive and well. And just so you know, I have no beef with you. Just wanting you to see things through non Buffalo glasses from time to time.:mrgreen:

I am sorry I just noticed your question now sorry about that. I never been to a Rochester Razorsharks game but I have seen there games online from time to time. Yes they get fans but are they all paying Rochester Razorsharks fans?

Because I reply alot on the Rochester sports fans forums on there message board and have gotten to know some of the Rochester fans on there boards. Some of them claim the Rochester Razorsharks paper the house compared to the Rochester Amerks or Rochester Knighthawks of today as a example.

In the past I realize the Amerks and Knighthawks have done some of this under there old ownership Steve Donner I will give minor league basketball PBL fans that. Today for the most part the Amerks and Knighthawks under Curt Styres has done away with papering the house. See I don't see things through just Buffalo glasses. Even though I admit that is my vantage point because that is were I live and know of. I try not to post about something if I have no knowledge of the city or subject.

The PBL isn't in my opinion as solid in some of these so called great PBL franchises as some PBL fans would think or post in my opinion example I will give is Rochester. I feel funny about posting this post because I have grown to like alot of the Rochester fans over the years because they help support the Buffalo Bills and Buffalo Sabres through regionalization. And for that as a Buffalonian I am greatful for there support to allow us to keep major league sports in Buffalo.

But I will post anyway because over the past year I felt PBL fans point to Rochester Razorsharks as this great PBL minor league basketball success to say see there is someday that is a success in the PBL. I guess it depends how you define success. On the floor as a team they are a success as a PBL team in the PBL league but in the Rochester Razorsharks stands with paying customers not so much in my opinion.

Rochester plays in a huge arena Blue Cross Arena at the Rochester War Memorial for there PBL games. I believe Rochester has a bigger PBL fan base then Buffalo but not as much as there attendance figures show because they paper ala WFL style Philadelphia Bell in my opinion.

The Buffalo Stampede PBL to be fair gave freebies so do most clubs in professional sports of some number level but not like the Rochester Razorsharks PBL in my opinion. I only will comment on them because like I said I post with the Rochester sports fans because Buffalo and Rochester are so close in distance and also Buffalo Bills and Buffalo Sabres through regionalization have brought many of us fans together between Buffalo and Rochester so I know a little about them.

If you want to know how I feel about the Western New York (Buffalo and Rochester area make up what we in this part of the New York State call the WNY region that is what I am referring too) professional basketball market I will tell you. I think Buffalo and Rochester is only big enough with paying fan support and interest for one minor league basketball team that might and I underline might be a success as a D-League city spliting there games half and half between Buffalo and Rochester like what the WPS women's professional soccer league is thinking about expanding for next year with the USL W-League Champions Buffalo Flash owner thinking about spliting time between the two markets playing half there games in Buffalo and half there games in Rochester as a WPS potential new expansion team.

Playing half there D-League games in Buffalo and half there games in Rochester with a regional city name instead of Buffalo or Rochester like Western New York whatever you call its. Like the original ABA did with the Florida Floridians, Carolina Cougars and Virginia Squires as a example. Buffalo and Rochester combine is 2 million metro population give or take if minor league D-League basketball can't make it in a regional of 2 million plus then in my opinion minor league basketball can't work and I will stand by that.

Because Buffalo and Rochester have bad winter weather and not alot of distractions like the beach to compete with in the winter months like a Florida as a example and are fairly good sports towns Buffalo and Rochester. If the D-League can't make it in a combine sports crazy market like that than minor league basketball can't be done for a profit in my opinion.

I want minor league basketball to succeed and care that is why I am on these boards posting but these leagues and there owners need to be honest with the fans. Don't have pie in the sky fantasy that is ok for the fans there is a little dreamer in all of us but with a owner there is real money at stake for them. I realize it is there's to lose. I just posting what I think might and might not work. And again everybody will have differing views on success. I view minor league basketball success as a owner actually turning a real profit. I would even take break even as a fan at this point. Let's Go Buffalo

[DCAbloob]

The ACPBL posted via Facebook that it has cleared entry for two more teams to be announced along with the schedule in the next few weeks. That will make for an eight team inaugural season.

[BreakersFan]

From the ACPBL league website press release dated April 1:

"it is expected that the number of interested franchises looking to join the ACPBL will grow to over thirty for the approaching 2010-2011 season Schutz Stated that The Atlantic Coast Professional Basketball League will have a comprehensive screening process and will only be accepting the 10 best franchises seeking to join the new league"

So how did they go from limiting it to 10 to now adding to get up to 8?

[turbocamyes]

ummm ... just a guess here, but ... New York? Sorry, couldn't resist the "Sam Hill" moment.:D

Uggh, good catch. Another reason why our third grader goes to my wife for help on his writing homework and to me for his math.

[DCAbloob]

From the ACPBL league website press release dated April 1:

So how did they go from limiting it to 10 to now adding to get up to 8?

A better question would now be why is it finalized at 6. The ACBPL announced a schedule for six teams with the Hudson Valley Kingz in place of the Beltway Bombers.

[Buffalo Super Fan]

Also why with 6 ACPBL teams and a 14 game total team schedule is my Buffalo Stampede ACPBL playing 10 home games and only 4 away games? Inless that is a misprint on the ACPBL schedule released it looks like Buffalo gets 10 homes games out of there 14 total games they will pay what is up with that I wonder? Inless the ACPBL schedule released like I said is a misprint anyone know? Also when is the ACPBL being moved up to it's own forum instead of a sub forum? Even the ABA has it's own forum just wondering? Let's Go Buffalo

[DCAbloob]

Also why with 6 ACPBL teams and a 14 game total team schedule is my Buffalo Stampede ACPBL playing 10 home games and only 4 away games? Inless that is a misprint on the ACPBL schedule released it looks like Buffalo gets 10 homes games out of there 14 total games they will pay what is up with that I wonder? Inless the ACPBL schedule released like I said is a misprint anyone know? Also when is the ACPBL being moved up to it's own forum instead of a sub forum? Even the ABA has it's own forum just wondering? Let's Go Buffalo

Hudson Valley isn't listed for any home games at all, it could be an ad hoc travel team set up to replace the Beltway Bombers. That would also explain Buffalo and other squads having more than seven home games.

[robster2001]

Hudson Valley isn't listed for any home games at all, it could be an ad hoc travel team set up to replace the Beltway Bombers. That would also explain Buffalo and other squads having more than seven home games.

There's now a news item on the ACPBL site indicating that Beltway was removed for "not meeting league rules and regulations" and replaced by Hudson Valley.

They are indeed a traveling team... 5 @ Buffalo, 2 @ Garden State, 2 @ Norfolk (Tru Hope), 3 @ NY Lions, 2 @ Washington.

The imbalance in HV games definitely causes some odd home/road breakdowns... as noted, Buffalo has 10 home games. NY Lions have 9, Washington has 9, Garden State and Norfolk have 7 each. That doesn't quite add up - every team should have more than 7 home games (as all of their HV "road" games should have switched to home games, assuming an originally-balanced schedule). In a short season, that kind of home/road imbalance is basically a competitive imbalance. One hopes that it's a one-season aberration.

This'll be interesting to watch. :)

[Buffalo Super Fan]

robster2001 let me try something. I don't know why Buffalo has 10 home games but let me try a theory I wonder if Buffalo wanted 10 home games because that is what they had in the old PBL to sell our Buffalo Stampede fans.

Also notice something else Buffalo plays alot of games in december before the new year. I think that was also on purpose. Why that Buffalo Super Fan? Because the Buffalo Stampede PBL the last two years got lost in the crowded winter sports scene in Buffalo battling the NLL indoor lacrosse team Buffalo Bandits on saturday nights starting in january.

It is better to play alot of our home games in december that might be the Buffalo Stampede ACPBL thought process but I don't know it is just a theory. Also the way it looks the Buffalo Stampede is basically a major player in the ACPBL. Kinda of like Rochester Razorsharks are with the PBL. I am excited I think were making the ACPBL playoffs with 10 home games and only 4 road games. Maybe the Buffalo Stampede will be ACPBL champions after all? I would really enjoy that as a Buffalo Stampede fan the Buffalo Stampede ACPBL basketball champions it might happen. To see us come full circle from worst in the PBL to first in the ACPBL oh yeah. Let's Go Buffalo

[DCAbloob]

Make that 8 teams again, the Beltway Bombers have been reinstated with the Westchester Wildkatz added. The 2010-11 league schedule has obviously been adjusted.

http://www.acpbl.com/latest-news/44-acpbl-adds-2-more-teams-makes-minor-adjustments-to-schedule.html

[robster2001]

The league is, for scheduling if not for standings purposes, divided into two divisions.

The defacto Southern division is Beltway, Tru Hope/Norfolk, and Washington. They play all but 6 of their games amongst each other. What's odd is that each team has *one* "Northern" opponent - Beltway plays Westchester 3 times, Norfolk plays Garden State once, and HV visits Washington twice. HV's previously-scheduled Norfolk trips have moved to Westchester, while Beltway gets games in Norfolk on the same dates.

The rest of the league is the defacto Northern division.

They didn't change a single previously-scheduled game date, but a lot of visiting teams were shuffled... and those three Beltway-Westchester games were, it appears, added to balance the schedule when nobody else could be shifted to cover game dates.

On a travel-mileage basis, it's a good thing... however, if the league is using a single standings table, and if one of the three Southern teams is awful, it's not going to go over well if two of the Southern teams make the playoffs by sweeping the third and splitting with each other... :)

But competitive balance isn't usually the concern for a first-year league... survival is... right? :)

[Buffal00 Sports Fan]

Tired of seeing my Stampede stink. Softest schedule of any of the ACPBL teams + 10 out of 14 games at home = a playoff minor league basketball team in Buffalo :)

[Love Pro Hoops]

How did the combine for the league go?I think this will be a solid league that buffalo should win.The league just has to get through its first year thats always hard.I think the league also is doing a decent job at making sure teams are solid.Cluster is how u last in minor league basketball.This league is decent in that area as well.What rules are the league playing by?What are they going to do to rival the d league?What are they going to do to help players move up to bigger leagues?

[Buffal00 Sports Fan]

I dont have your answers. I just have been following and rooting for minor league sports teams in Buffalo and Rochester for the past ten years because I enjoy minor league sports. When I say "my Buffalo Stampede" it's cause im a fan not the owner of the team. I like the direction of the ACPBL but would not put it up with the dleague but would put it above the ABA and EBA and in the same ball park as the PBL.

[Buffalo Super Fan]

As a Buffalo Stampede fan and a fan of Buffalo sports teams in Buffalo. We should be competitive in the ACPBL because where not dealing with teams like Rochester and Lawton-Fort Sill that had money and were stacked teams in the PBL in my opinion.

But with that being said nothing is a given in professional sports so we will see if the Buffalo Stampede become winners in the ACPBL professional basketball league. The Buffalo Stampede owner still needs to come to the table with money and do business differently then the past two years in the PBL or throw in the towel. This is my opinion as a Buffalo Stampede fan.

Because were at a point now if you just go lower and lower to different leagues what is the point you lose creditability just skipping from league to league? So as a Buffalo Stampede fan time to step up for the owner of the Buffalo Stampede and make it work in the ACPBL for the Buffalo Stampede. Let's Go Buffalo

[Buffal00 Sports Fan]

BSF, any idea how much season tickets will run for the Stampede this season? If it was $50 or less I know some people who want some.

[Buffalo Super Fan]

BSF, any idea how much season tickets will run for the Stampede this season? If it was $50 or less I know some people who want some.

No I don't know I want to know about that myself of how much Buffalo Stampede season tickets will be this year. I have been checking the Buffalo Stampede website for updates nothing yet so far. Let's Go Buffalo

[CAVSFAN]

Stacked or just had more talent than the Stampede?

As a Buffalo Stampede fan and a fan of Buffalo sports teams in Buffalo. We should be competitive in the ACPBL because where not dealing with teams like Rochester and Lawton-Fort Sill that had money and were stacked teams in the PBL in my opinion.

But with that being said nothing is a given in professional sports so we will see if the Buffalo Stampede become winners in the ACPBL professional basketball league. The Buffalo Stampede owner still needs to come to the table with money and do business differently then the past two years in the PBL or throw in the towel. This is my opinion as a Buffalo Stampede fan.

Because were at a point now if you just go lower and lower to different leagues what is the point you lose creditability just skipping from league to league? So as a Buffalo Stampede fan time to step up for the owner of the Buffalo Stampede and make it work in the ACPBL for the Buffalo Stampede. Let's Go Buffalo

[Buffal00 Sports Fan]

Most PBL teams looked stacked when they played in Buffalo lol we had a way of making a team leave town feeling like the LA Lakers. I just hope we bring back Kevin Ross the guy was an all-star big man in the PBL and will crap on post players in the ACPBL lol.

[Buffalo Super Fan]

The Atlantic Coast Professional Basketball League (ACPBL) announced that the Beltway Bombers have been reinstated into the ACPBL for play in the upcoming 2010-2011 season. In addition the Westchester Wildkatz has been added to the 2010-2011 lineup. So the ACPBL is now at 8 teams for the 2010-11 ACPBL season the schedule was then readjusted. Let's Go Buffalo

[Buffalo Super Fan]

Stacked or just had more talent than the Stampede?

Either way whatever you feel comfortable with Buffalo Stampede didn't belong in the PBL I agree with you what difference does the wording make that I used? The PBL is going no where fast either in my opinion minor league basketball in general is a mess as a fan watching what has gone on the last 5 years just in Buffalo, New York alone with our Buffalo Rapids ABA, Buffalo Silverbacks ABA, Buffalo Sharks ABA never played a game, Buffalo Dragons PBL never played a game and Buffalo Stampede PBL now in the ACPBL.

If you feel the PBL is all better now that it was all the Buffalo Stampede's fault ok good luck to your team and the PBL but I think you will find out differently. I am only a fan I have no inside information but I am also a knowledgeable sports person on many different topics and leagues name the sport and I see with my own two eyes all these different minor basketball leagues have warts in my opinion.

The key to me is getting by each year staying afloat without losing to much money in the process to me that is the goal today for minor league basketball. Also working together to form a league that is good for everyone in the league not just two free spending PBL teams Rochester and Lawton-Fort Sill. In the PBL the cost in my opinion is to high for this level of basketball. I will explain my thought process. The extra spending the difference in talent level isn't that great it isn't like your getting Michael Jordan or Doctor J. with the extra spending on the cap.

And the Buffalo Stampede will get the same crowd in the ACPBL that they got in the ABA and the PBL the same 700 to 1,000 will show up aka people like me that are Buffalo Super Fans. I followed the Buffalo minor league basketball teams in so many different high school and college gyms I have stopped counting but how many main stream sports fans that aren't sports freaks like me are going to do that? How many are even looking and posting on this ACPBL sub forum and board we don't even have our own forum yet. I started this sub forum because I am a sports fan of Buffalo and the Buffalo Stampede. But I am a very small number that is interested in the Buffalo Stampede or the PBL, ACPBL or ABA etc. How many are on the PBL forums and boards?

Who knows how much of that 700 to 1,000 is paying Buffalo Stampede customers and how much are comps only the owner and the team knows because I don't know? Buffalo never won in the PBL but we are still playing and I will stand by my posts in the past and basically from day one on these boards that I think the Buffalo Stampede will outlast the Rochester Razorsharks and most of the PBL because we are losing less money slower. When I posted that about the PBL it created a hornets nest with PBL fans about that statement when I first came on these boards.

Good Buffalo Super Fan your Buffalo Stampede will lose I don't care were some of the message posted by PBL posters that may be true but we never folded like I said we wouldn't that we would make it through the PBL season last year because there are alot of good people at the Buffalo Stampede that are basically volunteers that want to see the Buffalo Stampede and Buffalo make it in pro basketball some of the posters on this board that don't live in Buffalo don't understand what I am saying at all.

Buffalo is the city of good neighbors people do for others here it is different from some of the other communities out there. We had the Blizzard of 1977 and the Surprise Storm a few years ago in Buffalo that changes ones thought of about self and about working together for the common good. When you have no power or your in a snow ditch and a person helps you dig out you think differently about life and ones self. The people are good here in Buffalo that is why I have lived here for over 40 plus years.

There is a sense of community here that you don't always find every where the weather yes I think plays a small part in that because you can't control weather with snow and how much mother nature will dump snow on you. As long as the Buffalo Stampede owner is willing to put up some money and people countinue to help basically volunteering and care the Buffalo Stampede will go on.

I will stand by that I think what the Buffalo Stampede are doing and has been doing is smart it is the free spending teams that are putting the PBL in trouble in my opinion.

Evantually I believe the PBL will run out of investors for teams like what is going on with the MISL today. You can only burn through so much money and so many markets before it catches up with you. The PBL to me isn't a solid business investment for profit. I will stand by that and I by no means am a economic major or person it is just my opinion. The slower you loss money the better off I feel your team will be as a fan. So we can agree to disagree. Atleast the Buffalo Stampede ACPBL are still playing basketball this season it is more then I can say for some of the PBL teams from the past.

Where did I ever come up with the idea that minor league basketball is a mess gee I don't know? It must be in my imagination? You know Buffalo had Santa Claus as a owner for the Buffalo Rapids ABA.

But whatever floats your boat I am ok with. But watch out because the day may come when Lawton-Fort Sill Cavalry is in a PBL league by themselves like there CBA days with the Albany Patroons. Because the Rochester Raiders IFL just folded this week.

The Rochester Razorsharks PBL isn't in much better shape in Rochester and basically is in the same boat as the Rochester Raiders IFL with the difference the good Dr. Severko Hrywnak is comfortable for now losing money on the Rochester Razorsharks PBL still. We will see if the Rochester Razorsharks owner wants to keep funding at those levels in a losing business venture with little paying customers in a Blue Cross Arena that can't be that cheap to rent compared to a college gym.

How long do you think the Rochester Razorharks are going to keep doing that? I would think about some of those things before you come on talking trash about the Buffalo Stampede there the smart ones in my opinion getting out of the costly high salary cap PBL minimum. To make PBL teams spend money on a losing business I not sure is the answer either. The PBL long term needs to lower the cap and not allow Lawton-Fort Sill and Rochester to spend like Christmas shoppers the friday after Thanksgiving but all the other teams can't do that and keep up or feel comfortable from a business stand point that is where the problem is in my opinion with the PBL.

And what does the other teams that speak up get kicked out by the Rochester Razorsharks and Lawton-Fort Sill Cavalry teams that in my opinion are running things at the PBL. Someday those two teams will be playing alone lots of luck with that. Let's Go Buffalo

[Buffal00 Sports Fan]

BSF, I agree with you. The PBL has good intentions but the model is no good cuz if you dont average 5000 fans the overhead is so high that you still go deep in the red. In the ACPBL the Stampede have 10 home games 4 road games and in my opinion can break even off of 300 fans and already be making money at 500 fans vs 5000 fans in the PBL. The quality of play could be less then in the PBL but the ACPBL is the smart $ move for teams tired of being in the red.

[Buffalo Super Fan]

BSF, I agree with you. The PBL has good intentions but the model is no good cuz if you dont average 5000 fans the overhead is so high that you still go deep in the red. In the ACPBL the Stampede have 10 home games 4 road games and in my opinion can break even off of 300 fans and already be making money at 500 fans vs 5000 fans in the PBL. The quality of play could be less then in the PBL but the ACPBL is the smart $ move for teams tired of being in the red.

I think the thing is we live in Buffalo, New York and get it. Outsiders will poke fun at us about questioning the PBL business plan but bottom line basketball teams in the minors the PBL business model doesn't work. I have seen Buffalo in different basketball leagues and the bottom line is your right trying to stop being in the red with losing money.

We get it as Buffalonians and I think debating with PBL fans is just going to be a he said she said going around in circles. Rochester Razorsharks PBL yes they have won and run a fine organization but the PBL fans need to read the Rochester D & C newspaper there losing money. As long as the Rochester Razorsharks PBL owner is comfortable losing money at that rate they will go on.

But I could see the day where the Rochester Razorsharks PBL owner says no more or I am going to the ACPBL to join the Buffalo Stampede because the cost are more realistic for what we actually draw in paid attendance. Plus the travel is closer and more realistic then what it is in the PBL being so spread out. I am not sure a large Blue Cross Arena in Rochester, New York is the answer for them either.

I think the Buffalo Stampede ACPBL business model and college gym model is the better more realistic approach right now we will see who is right PBL fans or ACPBL fans. All I know is I have been around as a Buffalo sports as a fan for a long time and have seen many different levels of teams, leagues and sports here in Buffalo. I am not a economics major or a accountant but losing money is never good.

Eventually if a owner losing alot of money for years they ask why am I doing this anymore when the loses get greater and greater. The Buffalo Stampede PBL from day one hasn't spent money they don't have. Who would that is bad business to just spend for the sake of spending. The PBL doesn't have nationally endorsements or television contracts let's come to the table PBL fans.

The Lingerie Football League LFL has national endorsements a national MTV2 tv contract and a reality series in the works. All in a shorter two years time span then the three years of the PBL. The D-League has the NBA and Versus tv so you can see why the extra spending and cost but the PBL I can't see it.

The PBL is behind the LFL let's talk straight and the truth about things. The PBL fans that drink the cool aid from the league have no answers for that. If the PBL delivered then I can see the extra cost but it hasn't yet. Will it maybe but I have my doubts seeing things for three years nothing has changed just different PBL owners losing money in different cities.

I also wonder if the LFL not having contracts maybe the way to go for the PBL there was a good article about the LFL and specifically the Baltimore Charm LFL in the Washington Times Newspapers in Washington, D.C. Meaning the ladies that play in the LFL are independent workers without contracts. So you can pay them a lower wages like a regular worker at a job with minimum wage and base everything on gate for the team 20% of the gate for a win in the LFL and 10% of the gate for a loss and if they make the Lingerie Bowl they can make bigger money. That is smart what the LFL is doing from a business prospective. The ladies are free to go after deals for whatever is my interpretation.

So if some lady in the LFL is interesting to the general paying public and wants to sell handbags or jewelry or do modeling or write a book they can do it for extra income. It is a parttime job type of thing not there only way of making a living. Some of the ladies play other sports like soccer in the USL W-League etc. I think the LFL league said they made a small profit last season in 2009. I am just wondering if the PBL should look at a structure like that. The bottom line is we in Buffalo, New York we have a basketball team to enjoy this year for the 2010-11 season and hopefully many more seasons after that. But blowing money willy nilly with nothing much to show for it isn't the answer for the PBL in my opinion. If you don't like the ACPBL model then look at the LFL model PBL with not having contracts base it on what gate these guys actual bring in the house. Because it is working for the LFL owners so far that is all I am saying. Let's Go Buffalo

[ABARedWhiteBlue]

I think the thing is we live in Buffalo, New York and get it. Outsiders will poke fun at us about questioning the PBL business plan but bottom line basketball teams in the minors the PBL business model doesn't work. I have seen Buffalo in different basketball leagues and the bottom line is your right trying to stop being in the red with losing money.

We get it as Buffalonians and I think debating with PBL fans is just going to be a he said she said going around in circles. Rochester Razorsharks PBL yes they have won and run a fine organization but the PBL fans need to read the Rochester D & C newspaper there losing money. As long as the Rochester Razorsharks PBL owner is comfortable losing money at that rate they will go on.

But I could see the day where the Rochester Razorsharks PBL owner says no more or I am going to the ACPBL to join the Buffalo Stampede because the cost are more realistic for what we actually draw in paid attendance. Plus the travel is closer and more realistic then what it is in the PBL being so spread out. I am not sure a large Blue Cross Arena in Rochester, New York is the answer for them either.

I think the Buffalo Stampede ACPBL business model and college gym model is the better more realistic approach right now we will see who is right PBL fans or ACPBL fans. All I know is I have been around as a Buffalo sports as a fan for a long time and have seen many different levels of teams, leagues and sports here in Buffalo. I am not a economics major or a accountant but losing money is never good.

Eventually if a owner losing alot of money for years they ask why am I doing this anymore when the loses get greater and greater. The Buffalo Stampede PBL from day one hasn't spent money they don't have. Who would that is bad business to just spend for the sake of spending. The PBL doesn't have nationally endorsements or television contracts let's come to the table PBL fans.

The Lingerie Football League LFL has national endorsements a national MTV2 tv contract and a reality series in the works. All in a shorter two years time span then the three years of the PBL. The D-League has the NBA and Versus tv so you can see why the extra spending and cost but the PBL I can't see it.

The PBL is behind the LFL let's talk straight and the truth about things. The PBL fans that drink the cool aid from the league have no answers for that. If the PBL delivered then I can see the extra cost but it hasn't yet. Will it maybe but I have my doubts seeing things for three years nothing has changed just different PBL owners losing money in different cities.

I also wonder if the LFL not having contracts maybe the way to go for the PBL there was a good article about the LFL and specifically the Baltimore Charm LFL in the Washington Times Newspapers in Washington, D.C. Meaning the ladies that play in the LFL are independent workers without contracts. So you can pay them a lower wages like a regular worker at a job with minimum wage and base everything on gate for the team 20% of the gate for a win in the LFL and 10% of the gate for a loss and if they make the Lingerie Bowl they can make bigger money. That is smart what the LFL is doing from a business prospective. The ladies are free to go after deals for whatever is my interpretation.

So if some lady in the LFL is interesting to the general paying public and wants to sell handbags or jewelry or do modeling or write a book they can do it for extra income. It is a parttime job type of thing not there only way of making a living. Some of the ladies play other sports like soccer in the USL W-League etc. I think the LFL league said they made a small profit last season in 2009. I am just wondering if the PBL should look at a structure like that. The bottom line is we in Buffalo, New York we have a basketball team to enjoy this year for the 2010-11 season and hopefully many more seasons after that. But blowing money willy nilly with nothing much to show for it isn't the answer for the PBL in my opinion. If you don't like the ACPBL model then look at the LFL model PBL with not having contracts base it on what gate these guys actual bring in the house. Because it is working for the LFL owners so far that is all I am saying. Let's Go Buffalo

The LFL?

Really - that is the business model you are looking to as a comparison?

Has it dawned on you that there may be a few other, um, assets that might be behind that league's appeal?

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:eppnG8QVr2t3_M:http://onesportvoice.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/lfl.jpg

[Buffal00 Sports Fan]

Ok forget about basketball. Just give me a LFL team in Buffalo with chicks who look like that!!!!

[Ken, Steelheads fan]

I think the thing is we live in Buffalo, New York and get it. Outsiders will poke fun at us about questioning the PBL business plan but bottom line basketball teams in the minors the PBL business model doesn't work...

Well, THIS outsider will never poke fun at you. The PBL business model has been gosh awful since day one. It's amazing that actual adults devised something like that.

The LFL?

Really - that is the business model you are looking to as a comparison?

Has it dawned on you that there may be a few other, um, assets that might be behind that league's appeal?

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:eppnG8QVr2t3_M:http://onesportvoice.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/lfl.jpg

I think a better comparison would be the WNBA vs. LFL. The WNBA has never really caught on. Who wants to see women running around in extra baggy shorts??? I know that's a sexist viewpoint, but that's a viewpoint based on reality. Professional women's tennis has maintained its popularity for decades now. It's the outfits. The ladies look great on court and that's appealing to both men and women fans.

Sorry, I digress. :-|

[Buffal00 Sports Fan]

I have been on the LFL website all morning, its my favorite minor league now. Thanks Buffalo Super Fan for making my day! Lets bring the LFL into Buffalo.

[Buffalo Super Fan]

I have been on the LFL website all morning, its my favorite minor league now. Thanks Buffalo Super Fan for making my day! Lets bring the LFL into Buffalo.

There was a article about a year ago in the Buffalo News that they were looking at putting LFL team in Buffalo. QB Krystal Gray is from the Buffalo area and plays for the Baltimore Charm LFL I believe.

You can watch the MTV2 highlights of the games. That is how they are shown on MTV2 in a condensed form. Kinda of like the old MILL on Prime Network on Empire on monday nights when the Buffalo Bandits MILL were on tv. Let's Go Buffalo

[Buffalo Super Fan]

The LFL?

Really - that is the business model you are looking to as a comparison?

Has it dawned on you that there may be a few other, um, assets that might be behind that league's appeal?

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:eppnG8QVr2t3_M:http://onesportvoice.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/lfl.jpg

Whatever you want to say. I am telling you one that these ladies play real football. The condense 50 yard field I think helps them get there fast to cover. I have seen women's football outside in regular NFL type uniforms and the problem to me same with the WNBA is young ladies aren't build like young men that is just a biological fact. I am for women sports and want them to succeed because the young ladies work so hard in training. But I think with the WNBA they need to lower the nets so the young ladies can dunk and play above the floor instead of a shooting contest which the WNBA is in my opinion.

The WNBA plays good basketball but I think lowering the nets would help same with college and high school make it uniformed so ladies are use to the nets when they turn pro they don't have trouble with having to adjust there shot. I am not saying that is the only answer for the WNBA but it can't hurt. We are so PC today that if you recommend something like that the women's groups would turn around and say we can do everything men can what are you trying to say. I agree you can do everything men can but I am just trying to help with selling women's basketball lower the nets for dunking so you attract more fans. I am not the first and only person that has suggested this. Would you rather try this and help cut losses at the WNBA or no WNBA league down the line the choice is yours ladies? Because what the WNBA is doing now isn't working in my opinion from a business point of view.

As for the LFL look the people running the league turned a profit there is more going on then just ladies in a sports bra and boyshorts with a hockey helmet and visor with knee pads. The business model is working and the ladies play hard. Meaning it isn't a model posing contest it is real football and the whole LFL friday night lights there finding a niche in my opinion. Yes the LFL sells assets yes I agree but watch a game and tell me these ladies don't hit and tackle like real football players.

After watching the LFL for a while you just get use to it and you watch the ladies that really can play football and focus more on them. But I realize I am in the minority about enjoying there effort and desire to just play football. There is no way if you watch that you can just say the LFL and there assets. If your a football fan you appreciate the effort and also with the LFL there isn't all this AFL fighting with IFL etc with greed and bringing themselves both down in my opinion. The LFL is on it's own. You either admire the young ladies as football players or you don't?

I see more effort in a LFL then I see with my Buffalo Bills NFL team on some sundays at 0-5. You want to make the LFL something lower then it is. If guys with looking for just there assets as you call it they could just as well go to a gentlemen's club and get more then the LFL is offering. Yes I will give you the Lingerie even though there not really in lingrie that is a gimic that gets them in the door but you can't ignore LFL fans keep going back one meaning it wasn't a one time thing. Two alot guys go but also there girlfriends and wives are going with them for a fun night out for the evening like a concert or live show.

I can't ignore that the LFL made a profit in 2009. I think the times are changing one and two the LFL found a formula to try and sell women's sports for a profit. I look at it from a business point of view. You want to say that it is just the ladies assets ok fine. But I disagree with you if you think that is the only thing going for the LFL. I found watching the highlights on MTV2 that they play real football and it wasn't a circus. I realize some women's groups can't stand the LFL.

But let me ask you something. Alot of those same women's groups have no problem with a WWE pro wrestling in tights and a swim suits running around a ring? Or swimmers and drivers in the Olympics? Or even figure skaters don't where much in my opinion. I think the LFL gets singled out because of the word "Lingerie" I see nothing wrong with the LFL they have given these young ladies a chance to make some extra money and no one is forcing them to do it. I have seen way worse on tv NFL the Super Bowl halftime show with Janet Jackson, the movies and in Hollywood. I agree with what some of the women said in the Washington Times Article that the posing for the pregame shots for MTV2 tv is over the top but after that they play real football.

I don't have a problem with LFL and I think that the LFL made money should be a wake up call to all the indoor football leagues and yes the WNBA and the PBL. Read what I wrote you focus on there assets. I am looking at the no contract and no union that is the key for lowering cost in pro sports in my opinion on the minor league level. Minor league sports needs a different buiness model then the usually major league model there apples and oranges in my opinion. All I was pointing out was here is a model that works LFL and you know it that is why all you can post is the assets of the LFL. I get what you are getting at but that isn't all to the equation there doing something right to get on MTV2 tv and getting a reality tv series and fans are going. Look at the crowd they had in Baltimore for the Baltimore Charm LFL.

And I agree with the other Buffalo fan the LFL reminds me of the old MILL with only a few games in the early Buffalo Bandits MILL day the less is more thing. By the way the MILL indoor lacrosse use to where bicycle shorts you know the spandex shorts of the 1990's interesting no one had a problem with that for the guys from women's groups and writers about the men of the MILL in indoor lacrosse league in spandex. LFL would be very successful in Buffalo because it has that MILL business formular of starting small and building what the public demands. Not forcing alot of games and spending money they don't have like the PBL in my opinion. Let's Go Buffalo

[Buffal00 Sports Fan]

BSF, any word on stampede season tickets yet? Still nothing on team site, I might just end up getting razorsharks season tickets.

[Buffalo Super Fan]

BSF, any word on stampede season tickets yet? Still nothing on team site, I might just end up getting razorsharks season tickets.

No Buffal00 Sports Fan nothing yet about the 2010-11 Buffalo Stampede ACPBL season ticket prices yet. And to be honest that troubles me because our schedule starts december 4 a month earlier then the PBL and still no word on the Buffalo Stampede ACPBL website and it is October 22. Let's Go Buffalo

[Love Pro Hoops]

No updates on the website,ACPBL please be a solid league and dont fold like other leagues and almost evey aba team

[Buffal00 Sports Fan]

Some good news for Stampede fans, finally got some info from a kid off of facebook who sais he is playing for the Stampede. They opened up training camp late last night with a 9pm practice, all of the players flew in yesterday and they have housing for players. 3 1/2 weeks till opening night and things are looking good for us Stampede fans, now if we can just get a website update so we dont have to go digging on facebook for this info.

[Buffalo Super Fan]

Some good news for Stampede fans, finally got some info from a kid off of facebook who sais he is playing for the Stampede. They opened up training camp late last night with a 9pm practice, all of the players flew in yesterday and they have housing for players. 3 1/2 weeks till opening night and things are looking good for us Stampede fans, now if we can just get a website update so we dont have to go digging on facebook for this info.

It is good that there going to play but what kinda of attendance can one expect with no tickets on sale? No prices for season tickets still? I mean the Buffalo Stampede ACPBL have to come to the table if this is going to work in Buffalo, New York?

This is silly no season tickets on sale with 3 1/2 weeks till the ACPBL opener I thought they were out of business this late in the game with the ACPBL. I am no basketball owner and never worked in the game of basketball but even I know you need tickets on sale months ago like at the Gus Macker basketball tournment in June in Buffalo. People selling on a flea market table are more organized and have there business more together then the ACPBL and the Buffalo Stampede.

I am usually a very positive person but I don't see good signs for business success at all running a pro basketball team like this? Sorry but the Buffalo Stampede are still missing the boat and to be honest the boat sailed unfortunately long ago. What a mess from the looks and sounds of things for the Buffalo Stampede. I thought they were done for this season this late in the game. Let's Go Buffalo

[Buffal00 Sports Fan]

I want season tickets so it upsets me on no season ticket info yet but honestly I think I'm one of about 5 people who want season tickets. 95 percent of the Stampede crowd has always been walk up crowd on game days. So it's early to throw in the towel on them. As long as they get some type of local press on December 3rd and December 4th they have a good chance of selling out Daemen College on December 4th. Daemen seats roughly 600 and I have been to Stampede games with 600 fans at them before. My biggest concern was them actually PLAYING this season so hearing they already opened up training camp is good in my book. Lets Go Stampede!

[Love Pro Hoops]

Buffalo sports fan how do you feel about thd team???How do you feel about the season opener,What rules are the league going go,play by??How do you feel about the ACPBL,for me so far no good

[Love Pro Hoops]

Buffalo sports fan how do you feel about the team on and off the court???How do you feel about the season opener,What rules are the league going to play by??How do you feel about the ACPBL,for me so far no good.

[Buffal00 Sports Fan]

The Buffalo Stampede season tickets and regular season tickets have gone on sale online at http://clicketix.com/
It looks like the Buffalo Stampede and the Washington GreenHawks both have tickets for sale online unlike in the EBA and other non professional run leagues where all teams just do tickets at the door. Online ticket sales look professional, this looks good for the ACPBL. I'm pretty happy with the ACPBL to this point, looks like they spent some serious $$$ on a great website and unlike the EBA and PBL they updated it all off season with about 30-40 press releases since April that averages out to over 1 new press release per week in the off season. Also heard that the Buffalo Stampede have signed the best big man in Western New York in Chris Gadley he is a 6'10" 330 pound center who put up decent numbers at NCAA D-1 Canisius with 8 points and 8 rebounds per game. Chris is a local boy from Amherst who grew up down the road from me and he is VERY well known around Amherst and has a huge following in this town and the Stampede play in Amherst at Daemen College so this is huge for ticket sales. The Stampede have also signed 4 former Daemen College star player's to ensure that what ever tickets the Chris Gadley fans do not purchase they sell out the remaining tickets by getting the Daemen College student base in the gym. Things have never looked this good for my Stampede. Let's Go Buffalo Stampede!

[Love Pro Hoops]

The Buffalo Stampede season tickets and regular season tickets have gone on sale online at http://clicketix.com/
It looks like the Buffalo Stampede and the Washington GreenHawks both have tickets for sale online unlike in the EBA and other non professional run leagues where all teams just do tickets at the door. Online ticket sales look professional, this looks good for the ACPBL. I'm pretty happy with the ACPBL to this point, looks like they spent some serious $$$ on a great website and unlike the EBA and PBL they updated it all off season with about 30-40 press releases since April that averages out to over 1 new press release per week in the off season. Also heard that the Buffalo Stampede have signed the best big man in Western New York in Chris Gadley he is a 6'10" 330 pound center who put up decent numbers at NCAA D-1 Canisius with 8 points and 8 rebounds per game. Chris is a local boy from Amherst who grew up down the road from me and he is VERY well known around Amherst and has a huge following in this town and the Stampede play in Amherst at Daemen College so this is huge for ticket sales. The Stampede have also signed 4 former Daemen College star player's to ensure that what ever tickets the Chris Gadley fans do not purchase they sell out the remaining tickets by getting the Daemen College student base in the gym. Things have never looked this good for my Stampede. Let's Go Buffalo Stampede!
I'm happy you guys have tickets online,that's very professional,
I didn't say the EBA was a great league I just cover the league because I play in it and we have a team near me, I dont care if you take shots at the EBA they deserve it just like the ACPBL,I'm glad your team is stepping up,I hope yall win the chip

[Buffal00 Sports Fan]

I think were a long ways away from knowing if were good enough for the chip since we have a franchise record as the Stampede of like 4-36 lol. I think this is the best chance we have had to turn things around so we will see what happens.

[Love Pro Hoops]

I think were a long ways away from knowing if were good enough for the chip since we have a franchise record as the Stampede of like 4-36 lol. I think this is the best chance we have had to turn things around so we will see what happens.

Wow why is the franchise record that bad, I knoe the PBL is very good but thats real bad,is it talent or coaching??? I dont know anything about the ACPBL but you guys should be good, new hope is solid

[Buffal00 Sports Fan]

Rosevelt Bouie was a bad GM and he is gone finally. Every time a Stampede coach would lose 4 or 5 games he would fire him and hire a new coach so the players never had time to understand a coaching system. In my opinion Bouie was always bringing in head cases & trouble maker type players and that did not help. Now I read in the paper that we hired the former Daemen College assistant coach who has head coaching experience at Broome Community College. This was a big coaching hire because this new coach brought in the top four players from last years talented NAIA D-2 Daemen College team and they already have great chemistry playing together for four years already. Head coach also talked 6'10" NCAA D-1 center Chris Gadley into suiting up for us this year.

[Love Pro Hoops]

That's good they got a new GM and coach that is very important if you wanna win games,Sounds like they have solid players in place for a championship run,How many games are you guys playing this year?

[Buffal00 Sports Fan]

ACPBL site shows every team playing 14 games and then top four teams going to playoffs at one location TBA. After the tough last two seasons I am not even thinking championship, I would just be happy with a 4th place regular season finish and finally making the playoffs. I believe the PBL has stronger teams then the ACPBL, we never fit in with the top PBL teams, this is the league where Stampede players and fans can have hope, finally.

[Buffal00 Sports Fan]

Only 1 week until the start of the season. Let's Go Buffal 0!

[Buffal00 Sports Fan]

ACPBL version of Buffalo Stampede was amazing. We won 132-114 infront of about 500-600 loud fans and at Daemen College 500-600 looks packed. Marcus Hall who played NAIA d-1 ball for Robert Morris looked like the best player on the floor by far for eather team. We looked like a playoff caliber team tonight. GO STAMPEDE.

[Buffalo Super Fan]

I wasn't able to make it. I agree Buffal00 Sports Fan GO STAMPEDE! I am glad to hear we looked real good and attendance didn't drop off with the switch of league definately good news and something to build on. I am happy for the Buffalo Stampede.

Hey Oursportscentral when is the ACPBL going to get covered and have its own sub forum now that the ACPBL is playing actually games we shouldn't still be in a thread forum that a Buffalo Stampede fan started me. I think we atleast deserve a chance by oursportscentral because the ACPBL played there game tonight in Buffalo like they were suppose too.

Don't punish the ACPBL because of the ABA that isn't fair. Believe me as a fan if something isn't right I will post it here or comment on something good or bad brought up about the ACPBL. Plus the CBA and USBL still has a regular sub forum and they haven't played actual basketball games in years. Let's Go Buffalo

[DCAbloob]

Other scores, courtesy Atlantic Coast PBL on Facebook:
Beltway Bombers 139 Westchester Wildcatz 95
New York Lions 134 Garden State Rebels 108

Washington at Tru Hope later today.

[Buffal00 Sports Fan]

I went to the website acpbl.com around 10am and it was already updated with scores and standings. It is nice to see a league take updates serious. I agree with Buffalo Super Fan, we need a osc forum for the ACPBL cause everyone on osc is all about the PBL and I have lived through both leagues first hand now and I had
5X more fun last night at the ACPBL version of the Stampede then I ever did with the PBL version. Let's Go Stampede.

[LightningMan]

I agree with Buffalo Super Fan, we need a osc forum for the ACPBL cause everyone on osc is all about the PBL and I have lived through both leagues first hand now and I had 5X more fun last night at the ACPBL version of the Stampede then I ever did with the PBL version.
Perhaps the Stampede has finally found the right level of play at which to belong.

But I think the CBL gets a forum first.

[C l u t c H 385]

Buffalo dominated. had 30 point leads in both halves. Several MONSTER dunks courtesy of Marcus Hall and former Daemen Wildcats Ajay Rutledge and Jorge Ebanks.

Buffalo has nice unis. Kingz, not so much. They pretty much looked like practice jerseys and looks like they all provided their own black shorts (with navy tops, weird) cuz none of them matched.

Pretty good photo gallery here: http://www.migzphotography.com/Buffalo-Stampede-2011

[!gobuffalo!]

previous posters pretty much summed this game up..Buffalo dominated. I was @ the game and attended the PBL games last year and you could definitely tell Buffalo was a team stepping down a level and probably will be VERY competitive in the ACPBL. that being said, in my opinion the change in leagues, venue, and the owner taking on a few partners was very smart..and will definitely give the future of pro ball in Buffalo a better chance. as a previous poster said, this game was way more fun than any games the previous years, and to the average fan the change in league doesnt mean a whole lot. i like the direction of this organization. 2 game notes I wanted to point out: 1. It looked as if the Buffalo head coach was not there..someone said he was ill..can this be confirmed? also..two words..MARCUS HALL. This man never got a chance last year and he is a straight up beast. 27 points, 7 rebounds, 5 steals, and 6 blocks. Not to mention, a dunk on a run-out that should be shown on ESPN that absolutely ignited the crowd. Possibly the best dunk I have ever seen live. If you didnt see it, call the Stampede and get a tape. You wont be disappointed. Cant wait till next Saturday,

[Buffalo Super Fan]

Perhaps the Stampede has finally found the right level of play at which to belong.

But I think the CBL gets a forum first.

LightningMan I have no problem with the CBL getting a sub forum first that is fine too but what is with this site not putting up a active league ACPBL in a sub forum but has a USBL and CBA sub forum that haven't played games in two years?

Someone is asleep at the switch in my opinion just telling it like it is. Look we all comment on leagues when they do wrong but why is oursportscentral off limits from comment when they do something wrong?

ACPBL is a active league with excited Buffalo Stampede fans that post on oursportscentral as our message board for our fans we should have a forum for a active league that plays all its games so far unlike another sub forum we know ABA anyone? Again we can keep USBL, CBA and ABA sub forums if fans want but put them in a inactive leagues memories catagory. And in the ABA case the active league twilight zone catagory. Let's Go Buffalo

[Buffal00 Sports Fan]

Yeah I like our sports central but I see the ACPBL with updated website, standings, player of the week, and stats with box scores for all games which is what we on these boards always complain about leagues not having. I think out of all the leagues with forums already only the dleague and pbl have done all this and the pbl website went the whole off season with no updates. Its time for the ACPBL forum so we can talk about ACPBL issues without heading to page 14 ect.

Lets GO STAMPEDE!

[Buffalo Super Fan]

Yeah I like our sports central but I see the ACPBL with updated website, standings, player of the week, and stats with box scores for all games which is what we on these boards always complain about leagues not having. I think out of all the leagues with forums already only the dleague and pbl have done all this and the pbl website went the whole off season with no updates. Its time for the ACPBL forum so we can talk about ACPBL issues without heading to page 14 ect.

Lets GO STAMPEDE!

We just need to keep posting Buffalo Stampede ACPBL fans eventually oursportscentral hopefully will give us a ACPBL sub forum because of the numbers of Buffalo Stampede fans interested in talking about ACPBL Pro Basketball here on oursportscentral. GO STAMPEDE! Let's Go Buffalo

[LightningMan]

LightningMan I have no problem with the CBL getting a sub forum first that is fine too but what is with this site not putting up a active league ACPBL in a sub forum but has a USBL and CBA sub forum that haven't played games in two years?

Someone is asleep at the switch in my opinion just telling it like it is. Look we all comment on leagues when they do wrong but why is oursportscentral off limits from comment when they do something wrong?
Because the people who run the site would rather that housekeeping occur behind the scenes rather in public posts.

When someone tells you you have toilet paper on your shoe, do you prefer for them to tell you discreetly or shout it in front of the entire assemblage?

[Buffalo Super Fan]

Because the people who run the site would rather that housekeeping occur behind the scenes rather in public posts.

When someone tells you you have toilet paper on your shoe, do you prefer for them to tell you discreetly or shout it in front of the entire assemblage?

LightningMan what ever you say because at the end of the day beyond the few on this board mainstream american sports fans don't care that some league spent $500,000 dollars more on PR or on one or two players coaches etc. The bottom line is none of these minor basketball leagues are going great today. I see very little difference as a basketball fan between the CBL, IBL, WBA, ACPBL and PBL other then the name and a different letter of the alphabet with a different persons agenda leading the league it is really all the same to most basketball fans so lets not go there.

Of mine basketball league is bigger and better then yours please I saw the CBL website and league your championing no difference to me as a basketball fan then the ACPBL. It is a league based in mostly the south like the ACPBL is based mostly in the east. Instead of going in the gutter tearing down a league like you seem to want to do. I will wish the CBL the best of luck. I hope the CBL draws well.

And the bottom line that is who these leagues are going after fans like me. What someone sees that works in the business the paying customers don't see or care because it makes no difference in the bottom line all we want is a team. I see now what PSBF has been saying out of Pittsburgh he is right about that just wanting a team in the city you live in.

Buffalo Stampede draws the same no matter what the venue and what the league all playing in a higher spending league like the PBL is basically is a dog and pony show and nothing more. And of course losing alot more money then they are losing in the ACPBL with reasonable travel and as a fan I say what is the point for our owner to do that spend more money in the PBL to lose more money?

The PBL starts in january our league starts in december and that is good for the Buffalo Stampede so they aren't going up against the Buffalo Bandits NLL lacrosse team that starts in the third week in january at home that is very popular in Buffalo as 4 time champions. Plus the Buffalo Stampede in the ACPBL get prime saturday night dates compared to saturday night and then right back sunday afternoon in the PBL. Those sunday afternoons after a saturday night home game there was alway a drop off on sunday afternoon because a casual fan will go once on a weekend not twice inless there a season ticketholder.

Plus the Buffalo Stampede is a good team now in the ACPBL and that matters that is something else LightningMan you don't seem to understand that we as sports fans want to see the Buffalo Stampede win games which they are now in the ACPBL so I am happy as a Buffalo Stampede fan only speaking for myself.

The ACPBL is better for us just telling it like it is. The Buffalo Stampede win all the way around if you ask me and save money on travel to boot. I said that since day one and I sticking to it till I see other wise spending more makes no difference in minor league basketball attendance atleast in Buffalo it didn't as far as I can see as a Buffalo Stampede fan.

If I am owner I rather spend less and get the same crowd. No one is ever drawing 10,000 so I see no point spending tons of money living in fantasyland that some minor league would draw like that not going to happen. The ACPBL could fold around my Buffalo Stampede at the end of the year so what if we win the ACPBL Championship? Were still champions and the Buffalo Stampede could still go to a new league like the IBL or WBA or a league not even started yet in a new college venue in the Buffalo area and still draw that same build in audience in Buffalo for the Buffalo Stampede so spare me with behind the scenes a minor league basketball fan doesn't care about behind the scenes we want to win games and hopefully a championship if everything goes our way. Nobody cares fan wise about behind the scenes but a few people on this board in the basketball business as there career or job.

We live for game day and for supporting our team as a entertainment affordable option it doesn't matter what a leagues spends behind the scenes. I don't go oh I am going to the Buffalo Stampede game tonight because the PBL or the CBL spends money behind the scene so what? I am personally happier in the ACPBL because the finaces to me in the ACPBL is more realistic so a team has a chance to break even and not fold.

As long as minor league basketball goes on in Buffalo what do I care what is going on behind the scenes with the different leagues. The Buffalo Stampede draws the same weather it is ABA with the old Buffalo Rapids, Buffalo Silverbacks, PBL or now the ACPBL it doesn't matter I seen it first hand being in all these leagues as a fan. Inless it is the D-League with NBA backing all the rest are basically the same other then the ABA which is a joke because they don't play all there games and teams fold mid season like crazy.

I am not going to drag a conversation into the gutter which you seem to always want to do. You have a problem with the Buffalo Stampede and the ACPBL fine your opinion is noted. We still deserve a sub forum for us Buffalo Stampede fans that are loyal through several leagues and teams in Buffalo that is what being a fan is all about. The bottom line is the Buffalo Stampede is Buffalo's only pro basketball team.

So yes I think representing matters with number of different posters and post so I don't agree with you LightningMan. The ACPBL should have a sub forum we can agree to disagree and leave it at that. And again best of luck to the CBL I hope as a basketball fan it is all well supported. The bottom line is I don't understand you LightningMan instead of being supportive of all leagues you look to divide why I have no idea? We all should support one another in minor league basketball today. Buffalo and the ACPBL isn't even in the CBL territorry your a southern based league so I don't understand you knocking the ACPBL a eastern based league and the Buffalo Stampede at all. GO STAMPEDE! Let's Go Buffalo

[LightningMan]

So yes, I think representing matters with number of different posters and post so I don't agree with you LightningMan. The ACPBL should have a sub forum we can agree to disagree and leave it at that.
We don't disagree.

The bottom line is I don't understand you LightningMan. Instead of being supportive of all leagues you look to divide. why? I have no idea.
I don't look to divide. All I have said is that the CBL deserved to get one first, which they have, and that the people who run this site don't like the posts to be about how the site is run. It is you who have taken what I have said and made me out to be hostile to the ACPBL.

I don't understand you knocking the ACPBL a eastern based league and the Buffalo Stampede at all.
I didn't knock the ACPBL or the Stampede. All I said was I am glad they (the Stampede) found a league where they seem to fit. They got clobbered their two years in the PBL and now they're not getting clobbered. That's it.

I suggest you write a little less and read a little more.

[C l u t c H 385]

LightningMan what ever you say because at the end of the day beyond the few on this board mainstream american sports fans don't care that some league spent $500,000 dollars more on PR or on one or two players coaches etc. The bottom line is none of these minor basketball leagues are going great today. I see very little difference as a basketball fan between the CBL, IBL, WBA, ACPBL and PBL other then the name and a different letter of the alphabet with a different persons agenda leading the league it is really all the same to most basketball fans so lets not go there.

Of mine basketball league is bigger and better then yours please I saw the CBL website and league your championing no difference to me as a basketball fan then the ACPBL. It is a league based in mostly the south like the ACPBL is based mostly in the east. Instead of going in the gutter tearing down a league like you seem to want to do. I will wish the CBL the best of luck. I hope the CBL draws well.

And the bottom line that is who these leagues are going after fans like me. What someone sees that works in the business the paying customers don't see or care because it makes no difference in the bottom line all we want is a team. I see now what PSBF has been saying out of Pittsburgh he is right about that just wanting a team in the city you live in.

Buffalo Stampede draws the same no matter what the venue and what the league all playing in a higher spending league like the PBL is basically is a dog and pony show and nothing more. And of course losing alot more money then they are losing in the ACPBL with reasonable travel and as a fan I say what is the point for our owner to do that spend more money in the PBL to lose more money?

The PBL starts in january our league starts in december and that is good for the Buffalo Stampede so they aren't going up against the Buffalo Bandits NLL lacrosse team that starts in the third week in january at home that is very popular in Buffalo as 4 time champions. Plus the Buffalo Stampede in the ACPBL get prime saturday night dates compared to saturday night and then right back sunday afternoon in the PBL. Those sunday afternoons after a saturday night home game there was alway a drop off on sunday afternoon because a casual fan will go once on a weekend not twice inless there a season ticketholder.

Plus the Buffalo Stampede is a good team now in the ACPBL and that matters that is something else LightningMan you don't seem to understand that we as sports fans want to see the Buffalo Stampede win games which they are now in the ACPBL so I am happy as a Buffalo Stampede fan only speaking for myself.

The ACPBL is better for us just telling it like it is. The Buffalo Stampede win all the way around if you ask me and save money on travel to boot. I said that since day one and I sticking to it till I see other wise spending more makes no difference in minor league basketball attendance atleast in Buffalo it didn't as far as I can see as a Buffalo Stampede fan.

If I am owner I rather spend less and get the same crowd. No one is ever drawing 10,000 so I see no point spending tons of money living in fantasyland that some minor league would draw like that not going to happen. The ACPBL could fold around my Buffalo Stampede at the end of the year so what if we win the ACPBL Championship? Were still champions and the Buffalo Stampede could still go to a new league like the IBL or WBA or a league not even started yet in a new college venue in the Buffalo area and still draw that same build in audience in Buffalo for the Buffalo Stampede so spare me with behind the scenes a minor league basketball fan doesn't care about behind the scenes we want to win games and hopefully a championship if everything goes our way. Nobody cares fan wise about behind the scenes but a few people on this board in the basketball business as there career or job.

We live for game day and for supporting our team as a entertainment affordable option it doesn't matter what a leagues spends behind the scenes. I don't go oh I am going to the Buffalo Stampede game tonight because the PBL or the CBL spends money behind the scene so what? I am personally happier in the ACPBL because the finaces to me in the ACPBL is more realistic so a team has a chance to break even and not fold.

As long as minor league basketball goes on in Buffalo what do I care what is going on behind the scenes with the different leagues. The Buffalo Stampede draws the same weather it is ABA with the old Buffalo Rapids, Buffalo Silverbacks, PBL or now the ACPBL it doesn't matter I seen it first hand being in all these leagues as a fan. Inless it is the D-League with NBA backing all the rest are basically the same other then the ABA which is a joke because they don't play all there games and teams fold mid season like crazy.

I am not going to drag a conversation into the gutter which you seem to always want to do. You have a problem with the Buffalo Stampede and the ACPBL fine your opinion is noted. We still deserve a sub forum for us Buffalo Stampede fans that are loyal through several leagues and teams in Buffalo that is what being a fan is all about. The bottom line is the Buffalo Stampede is Buffalo's only pro basketball team.

So yes I think representing matters with number of different posters and post so I don't agree with you LightningMan. The ACPBL should have a sub forum we can agree to disagree and leave it at that. And again best of luck to the CBL I hope as a basketball fan it is all well supported. The bottom line is I don't understand you LightningMan instead of being supportive of all leagues you look to divide why I have no idea? We all should support one another in minor league basketball today. Buffalo and the ACPBL isn't even in the CBL territorry your a southern based league so I don't understand you knocking the ACPBL a eastern based league and the Buffalo Stampede at all. GO STAMPEDE! Let's Go Buffalo

Holy repetitive cliche-ful rambling Batman!

[zeke41]

Yeah...not reading all of that (says the guy who thought he was a little long with the typing)!

[Buffal00 Sports Fan]

Can we just have an ACPBL forum and put an end to this ? I think that is a simple way to fix all of this :)

[ABARedWhiteBlue]

LightningMan what ever you say because at the end of the day beyond the few on this board mainstream american sports fans don't care that some league spent $500,000 dollars more on PR or on one or two players coaches etc. The bottom line is none of these minor basketball leagues are going great today. I see very little difference as a basketball fan between the CBL, IBL, WBA, ACPBL and PBL other then the name and a different letter of the alphabet with a different persons agenda leading the league it is really all the same to most basketball fans so lets not go there.

Of mine basketball league is bigger and better then yours please I saw the CBL website and league your championing no difference to me as a basketball fan then the ACPBL. It is a league based in mostly the south like the ACPBL is based mostly in the east. Instead of going in the gutter tearing down a league like you seem to want to do. I will wish the CBL the best of luck. I hope the CBL draws well.

And the bottom line that is who these leagues are going after fans like me. What someone sees that works in the business the paying customers don't see or care because it makes no difference in the bottom line all we want is a team. I see now what PSBF has been saying out of Pittsburgh he is right about that just wanting a team in the city you live in.

Buffalo Stampede draws the same no matter what the venue and what the league all playing in a higher spending league like the PBL is basically is a dog and pony show and nothing more. And of course losing alot more money then they are losing in the ACPBL with reasonable travel and as a fan I say what is the point for our owner to do that spend more money in the PBL to lose more money?

The PBL starts in january our league starts in december and that is good for the Buffalo Stampede so they aren't going up against the Buffalo Bandits NLL lacrosse team that starts in the third week in january at home that is very popular in Buffalo as 4 time champions. Plus the Buffalo Stampede in the ACPBL get prime saturday night dates compared to saturday night and then right back sunday afternoon in the PBL. Those sunday afternoons after a saturday night home game there was alway a drop off on sunday afternoon because a casual fan will go once on a weekend not twice inless there a season ticketholder.

Plus the Buffalo Stampede is a good team now in the ACPBL and that matters that is something else LightningMan you don't seem to understand that we as sports fans want to see the Buffalo Stampede win games which they are now in the ACPBL so I am happy as a Buffalo Stampede fan only speaking for myself.

The ACPBL is better for us just telling it like it is. The Buffalo Stampede win all the way around if you ask me and save money on travel to boot. I said that since day one and I sticking to it till I see other wise spending more makes no difference in minor league basketball attendance atleast in Buffalo it didn't as far as I can see as a Buffalo Stampede fan.

If I am owner I rather spend less and get the same crowd. No one is ever drawing 10,000 so I see no point spending tons of money living in fantasyland that some minor league would draw like that not going to happen. The ACPBL could fold around my Buffalo Stampede at the end of the year so what if we win the ACPBL Championship? Were still champions and the Buffalo Stampede could still go to a new league like the IBL or WBA or a league not even started yet in a new college venue in the Buffalo area and still draw that same build in audience in Buffalo for the Buffalo Stampede so spare me with behind the scenes a minor league basketball fan doesn't care about behind the scenes we want to win games and hopefully a championship if everything goes our way. Nobody cares fan wise about behind the scenes but a few people on this board in the basketball business as there career or job.

We live for game day and for supporting our team as a entertainment affordable option it doesn't matter what a leagues spends behind the scenes. I don't go oh I am going to the Buffalo Stampede game tonight because the PBL or the CBL spends money behind the scene so what? I am personally happier in the ACPBL because the finaces to me in the ACPBL is more realistic so a team has a chance to break even and not fold.

As long as minor league basketball goes on in Buffalo what do I care what is going on behind the scenes with the different leagues. The Buffalo Stampede draws the same weather it is ABA with the old Buffalo Rapids, Buffalo Silverbacks, PBL or now the ACPBL it doesn't matter I seen it first hand being in all these leagues as a fan. Inless it is the D-League with NBA backing all the rest are basically the same other then the ABA which is a joke because they don't play all there games and teams fold mid season like crazy.

I am not going to drag a conversation into the gutter which you seem to always want to do. You have a problem with the Buffalo Stampede and the ACPBL fine your opinion is noted. We still deserve a sub forum for us Buffalo Stampede fans that are loyal through several leagues and teams in Buffalo that is what being a fan is all about. The bottom line is the Buffalo Stampede is Buffalo's only pro basketball team.

So yes I think representing matters with number of different posters and post so I don't agree with you LightningMan. The ACPBL should have a sub forum we can agree to disagree and leave it at that. And again best of luck to the CBL I hope as a basketball fan it is all well supported. The bottom line is I don't understand you LightningMan instead of being supportive of all leagues you look to divide why I have no idea? We all should support one another in minor league basketball today. Buffalo and the ACPBL isn't even in the CBL territorry your a southern based league so I don't understand you knocking the ACPBL a eastern based league and the Buffalo Stampede at all. GO STAMPEDE! Let's Go Buffalo


Wow.

You just wrote a Lord of the Rings-length reply to answer a post - of two sentences - that you wildly misread.

There is no knock of the ACPBL, Buffalo or anything else there. There isn't even a MENTION of how the league operates.

He is talking about the website on which you are reading (poorly) and posting (lengthily).

Send Paul Reeths a PM - there are instructions here on how to do so - and address your request directly. Paul is a reasonable person, and I'm sure will reply to you quickly and professionally. Don't wait for him to reply in this thread; in case you haven't noticed, this is probably a busy time in minor league sports so Paul doesn't have a lot of time to browse.

[CHris902]

This is a privately run board so Preeths can do what he wants, and I understand why he wouldn't want to create more sub-forums that need moderation.
I am curious as to why people would prefer a separate ACPBL forum over this thread. Realistically there are only 4 posters who care and they're all fans of the same team and who may or may not be the sock puppets of the same poster. Wouldn't an ACPBL forum just end up with a single thread dedicated to the Buffalo team (GO BUFFALO!) and no other conversation at all? How is that different from this current thread?

[Buffal00 Sports Fan]

We have four routine Buffalo Stampede fans that post plus 'love pro hoops' who is from the south. We would have many more but this non-forum is so hard to find.
A guy from DC posted last week in the PBL section about the Maryland ACPBL team only because the ACPBL had no forum and PBL fans tryed jumping the poor guy for it. The CBL had teams fold mid-season and missed games left and right. If thats what it takes for getting a forum maybe it is best the ACPBL not have one.

[LightningMan]

A guy from DC posted last week in the PBL section about the Maryland ACPBL team only because the ACPBL had no forum and PBL fans tried jumping the poor guy for it.
Bull. The only thing anybody said was there was a thread and it's here. I personally even gave the guy a link to the thread.

The CBL had teams fold mid-season
Bull. Not a team from the CBL folded while in the CBL. The Steel left and then apparently folded. Neither the Birmingham Sabers who replaced them nor the Georgia Gwizzlies who were expelled folded.

..and missed games left and right.
This is true.

If thats what it takes for getting a forum maybe it is best the ACPBL not have one.
You know what it took for the CBL to get a forum? Me waiting a year to see if the league would last and then me politely asking Preeths in PM if he would. That's what it took. Not a war between two leagues or any posting drama in a thread.

[runninref]

How many games (not seasons) does the ACPBL have under its belt? Why are we even having this conversation? What about the ABI, CBA, EBA, ESL, KBDL, NABL, SEBL, TPBL, UBA, UBL, USBA, USBL, WCBL, etc? Where does it start and where does it end? :confused:

[DCAbloob]

Can we just have an ACPBL forum and put an end to this ? I think that is a simple way to fix all of this :)

Or you can convince fans of the GreenHawks, Bombers, Lions et al to discuss their respective teams in this thread, building up its traffic enough to justify expansion to a legitimate subforum. Just a thought.

How many games (not seasons) does the ACPBL have under its belt? Why are we even having this conversation? What about the ABI, CBA, EBA, ESL, KBDL, NABL, SEBL, TPBL, UBA, UBL, USBA, USBL, WCBL, etc? Where does it start and where does it end? :confused:

Hopefully it ends now, at least for the time being. I'm choking on the clog of meta messages.

[Buffalo Super Fan]

This is a privately run board so Preeths can do what he wants, and I understand why he wouldn't want to create more sub-forums that need moderation.
I am curious as to why people would prefer a separate ACPBL forum over this thread. Realistically there are only 4 posters who care and they're all fans of the same team and who may or may not be the sock puppets of the same poster. Wouldn't an ACPBL forum just end up with a single thread dedicated to the Buffalo team (GO BUFFALO!) and no other conversation at all? How is that different from this current thread?

CHris902 they were running two sub forums for the CBA and USBL that haven't played in more then two years they had time to moderate that but no time for the ACPBL what is your point? I will turn it around CHris902 how active are some of the other sub forum on this site for all sports and leagues not just basketball? The ACPBL has posters interested and might get more if we have a place for ACPBL fans to go that is all we Buffalo Stampede fans and ACPBL fans are saying. And also GO BUFFALO isn't that the point CHris902.

What I am saying is what are doing here on oursportcentral? Isn't the point to have fans post on here supporting our teams and leagues or I am missing something and on the wrong board. Am I in the health or gardening sub forum? Isn't the point fans posting taken pride in the teams and leagues there in? I always thought that is why oursportscentral existed to give leagues attention they wouldn't get on the ESPN and Yahoo sports sections because these leagues are not the big four sports leagues NFL, MLB, NBA and NHL.

LightningMan I would like to apologize for anything I said in my posts that affended you, CBL or what any of the Buffalo Stampede fans said about the CBL that was offensive to you. That was never my point and like I said I want all leagues to succeed. I hope you will understand why Buffalo Stampede fans and ACPBL fans want our own sub forum for a place for our own basketball fans to go to call our own. And for everyone I am sorry this cause so much back and forth I am surprised that a few had a hard time with ACPBL getting a sub forum.

Putting down other league isn't the way to go Buffalo Stampede fans remember we are from the city of good neighbors. My hope is other basketball leagues will see we have some fans maybe they should have a ACPBL sub forum atleast to see where it goes maybe on a temporary trail basis to see if we get more fans to post that might be a nice compromise.

Last point I am saying on this subject in closing. I am disappointed that some choose to take other fans on instead of saying you know Buffalo Stampede and ACPBL fans you have a good point since Buffalo represents there basketball team on oursportscentral so well. Instead we got what do you guys have 4 fans posting all the time.

I have noticed no one said that about the WPS sub forum no knock intended Buffalo and Rochester are sharing a WPS team this summer the Western New York Flash which I am sure I will catch a women's pro soccer game or two because I am a Buffalo sports fan. Even my Buffalo Bisons has a IL sub forum that isn't very active I noticed and again no knock because most know here I am a Buffalo Bisons fan too. So again I am surprised the trouble it caused for some for us to have a ACPBL sub forum. Happy Holiday's to everyone from Buffalo. Let's Go Buffalo

[Love Pro Hoops]

What rules do the ACPBL play by?? I love there website but t rules info wasn't on there

[Buffal00 Sports Fan]

oops we did it again. My Buffalo stampede 2-0 final score 103-100 over garden state rebels. I counted 200 fans tonight and I counted 500 fans at the home opener last week. We are averaging 350 fans per home game and from what I hear we lead the league in attendence but the Washington DC team doesent start playing home games till January so idk if we will lead the league in attendence for the entire season or not but I hope so. Let's Go STAMPEDE!

[DCAbloob]

oops we did it again. My Buffalo stampede 2-0 final score 103-100 over garden state rebels. I counted 200 fans tonight and I counted 500 fans at the home opener last week. We are averaging 350 fans per home game and from what I hear we lead the league in attendence but the Washington DC team doesent start playing home games till January so idk if we will lead the league in attendence for the entire season or not but I hope so. Let's Go STAMPEDE!

Garden State and Beltway haven't hosted any games either. The Beltway Bombers have their home opener today vs Tru Hope.

Additionally, the New York Lions won over the Garden State Rebels last night, 81-80. The Lions will host their 2nd game of the weekend today vs Westchester.

[ABARedWhiteBlue]

CHris902 they were running two sub forums for the CBA and USBL that haven't played in more then two years they had time to moderate that but no time for the ACPBL what is your point? I will turn it around CHris902 how active are some of the other sub forum on this site for all sports and leagues not just basketball? The ACPBL has posters interested and might get more if we have a place for ACPBL fans to go that is all we Buffalo Stampede fans and ACPBL fans are saying. And also GO BUFFALO isn't that the point CHris902.

What I am saying is what are doing here on oursportcentral? Isn't the point to have fans post on here supporting our teams and leagues or I am missing something and on the wrong board. Am I in the health or gardening sub forum? Isn't the point fans posting taken pride in the teams and leagues there in? I always thought that is why oursportscentral existed to give leagues attention they wouldn't get on the ESPN and Yahoo sports sections because these leagues are not the big four sports leagues NFL, MLB, NBA and NHL.

LightningMan I would like to apologize for anything I said in my posts that affended you, CBL or what any of the Buffalo Stampede fans said about the CBL that was offensive to you. That was never my point and like I said I want all leagues to succeed. I hope you will understand why Buffalo Stampede fans and ACPBL fans want our own sub forum for a place for our own basketball fans to go to call our own. And for everyone I am sorry this cause so much back and forth I am surprised that a few had a hard time with ACPBL getting a sub forum.

Putting down other league isn't the way to go Buffalo Stampede fans remember we are from the city of good neighbors. My hope is other basketball leagues will see we have some fans maybe they should have a ACPBL sub forum atleast to see where it goes maybe on a temporary trail basis to see if we get more fans to post that might be a nice compromise.

Last point I am saying on this subject in closing. I am disappointed that some choose to take other fans on instead of saying you know Buffalo Stampede and ACPBL fans you have a good point since Buffalo represents there basketball team on oursportscentral so well. Instead we got what do you guys have 4 fans posting all the time.

I have noticed no one said that about the WPS sub forum no knock intended Buffalo and Rochester are sharing a WPS team this summer the Western New York Flash which I am sure I will catch a women's pro soccer game or two because I am a Buffalo sports fan. Even my Buffalo Bisons has a IL sub forum that isn't very active I noticed and again no knock because most know here I am a Buffalo Bisons fan too. So again I am surprised the trouble it caused for some for us to have a ACPBL sub forum. Happy Holiday's to everyone from Buffalo. Let's Go Buffalo

Simple question:

Have you sent a PM to the moderator of this board to request a separate section for the ACPBL?

To your comments about the CBA and USBL - they were created years ago.

[C l u t c H 385]

What a sloppy game. The Stampede saw a double digit half time lead turn into a 2 point defecit going into the 4th quarter. When the Rebels started to go on a run, and eventually take the lead, it seemed that the Stampede totally panicked. All semblance of an offensive game plan went completely out the window and it turned into a series of 1-on-1 plays.

Luckily, enough individuals made plays and the Stampede came out with a win. Free throw shooting was pretty abysmal down the stretch as well which gave the Rebels several chances to stay in the game.

Once again the visiting team's jerseys looked like practice jerseys but at least all of their shorts also matched. They also only dressed 8 guys. Buffalo had a 12 man roster plus 2 who didn't dress for the game, so I'm assuming one of the ACPBL's elusive rules is that only 12 can dress.

Before last week's game I saw the refs (ACPBL only uses 2 per game) going over the 2010-11 Official NBA Rulebook. So I'm guessing they pretty much follow those same rules? There is no added, deeper 3 point line, however. Before the game last night some people were on the court with a tape measure, so I thought maybe they were adding a deeper 3 point stripe but it never happened, who knows.

Attendance was really down compared to last week. The Daemen College game at 4 drew better. Some of the students came back for the game but not nearly as many as last week. My guess is attendance will continue to suffer during the semester break unless the Stampede get a lot of help from media coverage.

[Buffal00 Sports Fan]

I agree. The second half was very sloppy. I think the issue was that Garden State was every bit as talented as Buffalo and Buffalo got rattled in the second half when they realized they were actually playing a team as good as them. The Rebels walked right by me and I thought the uniforms were actually decent, Rebels was in fancy writing on front, they had the ACPBL patch on the front and they had the team logo on back with the number and team logo on shorts as well. This was a huge upgrade from the crap that the Hudson Valley Kingz called uniforms the week before lol. Let's Go Stampede!

[C l u t c H 385]

The jerseys looked screen printed to me on a cheaper looking mesh type jersey that most high schools would use as practice jerseys. I don't see why that's fancy. The Kingz writing was just as 'fancy,' in the sense that they were stylized screen printed letters. If anything I would actually say the Kingz writing was fancier. the Rebels was just a generic handwriting font you could find in any word processor. Again, at least they had matching shorts, which is more than can be said for the Hudson Valley Kingz.

I think the disparity in roster size probably also helped us keep the lead as the Rebels started looking tired at the end and our guys were a little fresher.

[Buffal00 Sports Fan]

I thought the Rebels uniforms were decent so we disagree with that. You are dead on with the 8 players, if the rebels show up with 10 players in Buffalo last night no way we win that game. I also think we may be in for a surprise on Saturday when we play the Kingz again, they have team pics on facebook that were taken last night showing 3 new players 12 players total 3 more then what showed up at Buffalo . The only lost by 1 point to the NY Lions last night and the NY Lions beat the Garden State Rebels by 26 points in the opener. If Hudson Valley comes back on Saturday with the team that played last night against NY Lions I think you could argue we would be the underdogs this time around. Let's Go Stampede!

[C l u t c H 385]

Garden State has more than what they brought listed on their site. Some of the numbers don't match what they were wearing last night either. I'm pretty sure the big guy wearing #15 last is the guy the have listed as #4 on their website.

[Buffal00 Sports Fan]

Yeah Garden State Rebels big man is from Africa and has the craziest name ive ever seen it was like Afalombi Ajumobi or something like that lol. Garden State exposed are major weakness which is SIZE. The big man from Africa was decent and thanks to us having no size at all we almost handed him a tripple double 14pts, 8reb, 7blks. He has to be one of the top big men in this league I think Afalombi Ajumobi (lol cracks me up) will be in the all star game on April 9th.

[Buffalo Super Fan]

Simple question:

Have you sent a PM to the moderator of this board to request a separate section for the ACPBL?

To your comments about the CBA and USBL - they were created years ago.

No I haven't because I don't see any link where to PM Preeths. Maybe you can help if you know how to do it. Would be appreciative. Thank you ABARedWhiteBlue for offering to do that for us Buffalo Stampede fans. Let's Go Buffalo

[Buffalo Super Fan]

oops we did it again. My Buffalo stampede 2-0 final score 103-100 over garden state rebels. I counted 200 fans tonight and I counted 500 fans at the home opener last week. We are averaging 350 fans per home game and from what I hear we lead the league in attendence but the Washington DC team doesent start playing home games till January so idk if we will lead the league in attendence for the entire season or not but I hope so. Let's Go STAMPEDE!

Great to hear were 2-0 I have to get out to a game soon. It is good to hear the Buffalo Stampede have turned there team around. Buffalo Stampede fans that have seen the team play this season do we look like a championship type ACPBL team for winning it all this season?

It sounds like we are but I thought I would ask those that have actually seen the Buffalo Stampede play this season after two games. GO STAMPEDE! Let's Go Buffalo

[ABARedWhiteBlue]

No I haven't because I don't see any link where to PM Preeths. Maybe you can help if you know how to do it. Would be appreciative. Thank you ABARedWhiteBlue for offering to do that for us Buffalo Stampede fans. Let's Go Buffalo

Look up at the top of the thread, where it says Welcome, Buffalo Super Fan

Click on Private Messages

The username you want to send to is preeths

Type your message, and post it

When Paul replies, you will see "Private Messages: Unread 1" in the box above

Good luck...

[!gobuffalo!]

I was @ the game and I agree with BSF that I didn't think the GSR jerseys were all that bad. From a distance they looked cheap but when you got up close they were decent quality with matching shorts and numbers. Then again, I could care less about the jerseys, and more about the product on the court. A few points I took away from the game:
1) Although I am enjoying this season more than the last two in the PBL, the talent drop off is quite dramatic. However, it was still the right move for Stampede ownership to make at this point.
2) This game was very sloppy. When the Stampede got rattled in the second half the coach did very little which scares me for future games. No adjustments at all. #15 Charles Walker was getting destroyed by their top player who I believe scored on him five straight times at one point. Yet, the coach made no changes.
3) The refereeing, like the first game, was VERY suspect. Im wondering if the ACPBL trains these guys or where they actually come from.
4) #1 Darino needs to play more minutes at the point guard position. He had two three point plays down the stretch that were huge and only when he is in the game do the Stampede run sets on offense. He isnt loaded with talent, but he definitely keeps the team under control and at a good pace when he is in the game.
5) The Stampede NEED A BIG MAN. I heard from one of the other fans a the game that 6'9 Chris Gadley was joining the team in the near future, which would be a big addition.
6) #19 DJ Jackson? He made some decent offensive plays in the first game, but how he's playing as much as he is baffles me. He plays very selfish, and fires up shots that aren't there constantly. On defense, he stands around and doesn't move his feet. On two inbounds plays he set the softest screens I've ever seen and instead jumped to the ball looking for his shot. Seems as if he only cares about his points and not the team. Not good.
7) The attendance was definitely down, but the fans that were there were enthusiastic. Im still optomistic that with competitive games it will build. I really hope the organization does a little bit of advertising if they have the budget for it. Maybe bring in some of the school children they did the past few years that would bring 50-100 people.

Sorry for the long post. See ya next Saturday!

[DCAbloob]

Sunday's scores, courtesy of the ACPBL's Facebook page:
Tru Hope Trailblazers 118 Beltway Bombers 105
New York Lions 103 Westchester Wildcatz 72

Tru Hope joins Buffalo at 2-0 with New York now at 3-0.

[runninref]

Concerning Referees in the ACPBL -- each team finds their own. You read into this whatever you want.

[C l u t c H 385]

Concerning Referees in the ACPBL -- each team finds their own. You read into this whatever you want.

LOL, that's not good.

[CHris902]

Yeah Garden State Rebels big man is from Africa and has the craziest name ive ever seen it was like Afalombi Ajumobi or something like that lol. Garden State exposed are major weakness which is SIZE. The big man from Africa was decent and thanks to us having no size at all we almost handed him a tripple double 14pts, 8reb, 7blks. He has to be one of the top big men in this league I think Afalombi Ajumobi (lol cracks me up) will be in the all star game on April 9th.
A quick google search points out that he actually grew up in Jersey. I also don't really get what is so funny about his name?

[Buffal00 Sports Fan]

Thats false. I know the one Buffalo official Rob who has done both games and he told me he has been scheduled directly by the ACPBL for both games and has had zero communication with the Buffalo Stampede outside of being paid. He also had to go through a background check by the ACPBL. The refs are all local so I wouldnt be surprised if teams sometimes give officials names to the ACPBL but it does not sound like that would guarantee they will be chosen to work a game.

[Buffal00 Sports Fan]

Last game it looked like there was a big man in street clothes on the end of the Stampede bench??? Does anyone know if this is a practice player or if he could be a new addition??? Given are lack of size I can not see why he would be in street clothes???

[!gobuffalo!]

I asked one of the players after the game who he was and they said he is a 6'9 practice player..i agree im not sure why hes not dressing..maybe hes coming back from an injury? Id like to see Gadley on this team and what I hear is he could be by this weekend..at least thats what I heard two guys next to me talking about..if he comes in with the right attitude

[Buffal00 Sports Fan]

How bad is this 6'9 practice player we have on the bench?

Right now the best post player we have is Jerell Williams from d-3 wells college who is listed at 6'5 but is really about 6'3 because he walked right past me last game.

We have so many talented guards and that is why we are 2-0 but we cant expect to compete against the 1st place Ny Lions with a 6'3 center. The Ny Lions have 7 footers and 6'8 6'9 guys who played d-1. We play the Ny Lions 4 times and its going to be ugly unless we can pick up a center.

And I know we play the home games at Daemen College and the head coach is a former Daemen College assistant coach but the head coach Herb Richmond needs to get a grip and stop starting the 6'7 stiff Rob Jacobs over Jerell Williams just because Jacobs is Daemen alum. Rob Jacobs did nothing at Daemen College where he was a bust and clearly Jerell Williams is the best current post option we have even if he is smaller then some guards we face. Jerell is the best inside rebounder and defender we have he had 13 points last game and his late 3-point make won the game for us . Does anyone else who goes to the games agree with my take on the Rob Jacobs/Jerell Willams situation?

[pistolpete]

My close friend is the owner of the Stampede. I was told that the roster for this weekends game on Saturday 7:30pm @ Daemen College will have two players that are over 6'9" . One is from Detroit and the other is from Buffalo who played overseas last season. I went to the first two (2) home games and really enjoyed the games. I believe it was a great move to play the games at Daemen. You feel like you are right on top of the action. I hope everyone comes out to a game and supports the team. :-D

[Buffal00 Sports Fan]

You expect us to believe that the Buffalo Stampede will go from having no post players in the first two games......and then we have two giants over 6'9" brought into the lineup for the 3rd game this Saturday night? IDK about all that.

But if you REALLY do know the owner then tell him that if we do not land a quality center soon that we may not make the playoffs or will be blasted in the playoffs against teams like NY, Norfolk, Washington or Beltway who all have many ncaa d-1 quality big men. Out of those teams we only play New York in the regular season so we can drop all four games against New York and still go 10-4 and make the playoffs still and it will all be based on false hope when we get beat in the 1st round of the playoffs by 40 points. We need a good center in Buffalo NOW.

[Buffal00 Sports Fan]

Looks like the owner Vinnie Lesh and his partner Richard Anselmo really did pull off a miracle so to speak.

Chris Gadley Center 6'9" 300 Canisius (NCAA D-1)
Justin Sample Center 6'9" 280 Detroit Mercy (NCAA D-1)

Im hearing both players are in town, practicing and will be suited up this Saturday and for the remainder of the season. From what I have been told, Gadley will be the teams starting center from now on and Sample will back him up. It is so nice to see the owners really commit to trying to deliver a championship. Never been so proud to be a Buffalo Stampede fan! Let's Go Buffalo!!!!!!!!!!!!

[!gobuffalo!]

I agree BSF, the addition of these two big guys will help the Stampede tremendously. I have watched Gadley play many times going back to Hofsta and he can be a major asset to team if he stays in shape and keeps his attitude in check. The direction of the team seems solid and I cant help to think we will be competitive for a championship THIS YEAR. Thats exciting. I think the team needs to make a few small changes (release the guys who refuse to play team basketball - see previous post). Lastly, I am interested to see how the coaching situation works out for the Stampede. Does anybody know anything about this Herb Richmond? He seems very uninspired on the bench and it did not seem like the team was on the same page in crucial situations last game. I guess time will tell. I predict a close game tomorrow night.

[Buffal00 Sports Fan]

We lost by 20 we were up 3 at half time and then decided to let Hudson Valley make fools of us in the 2nd half and most of the fans left early in the 4th quarter. Buffalo head coach called hardly any timeouts during Hudson Valleys long runs, bad coaching played a big part in the loss. All around not good. I think that was my last Stampede game unless a coaching change happens.

[!gobuffalo!]

i dont want to sound like one of the people that gets on a coach too quick or too often, but I have attended almost every Stampede game the last three years and this guy seems to be BY FAR THE WORST. he needs to go. bottomline. he is clueless with his game management, and from what i can tell just has a bad attitude overall. 1 on 1 basketball will not win us games. a couple game points - the new big man from Detroit, Sample, takes up space on the court and thats about it. #33 Dodd, where did he come from and why did he get so much time tonight? he can't play defense AT ALL and threw up some ugly shots..might want to re-evaluate his minutes coach. #15 Walker is also a major defensive liability. We need a couple solid big men and one more scoring guard. Besides maybe Marcus Hall, the players we have now can't play on both ends of the court.

[Buffalo Super Fan]

Here are some of the ACPBL Scores from Week 3 for those keeping tract at home.

Saturday December 18th
NY Lions 88 - Garden State 109

Hudson Valley 110 - Buffalo 92

Sunday December 19th
Beltway 95 - Norfolk 116

Tough loss for my Buffalo Stampede on saturday. GO STAMPEDE! Let's Go Buffalo

[HUDSON VALLEY KINGZ]

i thought the rebels uniforms were decent so we disagree with that. You are dead on with the 8 players, if the rebels show up with 10 players in buffalo last night no way we win that game. I also think we may be in for a surprise on saturday when we play the kingz again, they have team pics on facebook that were taken last night showing 3 new players 12 players total 3 more then what showed up at buffalo . The only lost by 1 point to the ny lions last night and the ny lions beat the garden state rebels by 26 points in the opener. If hudson valley comes back on saturday with the team that played last night against ny lions i think you could argue we would be the underdogs this time around. Let's go stampede!

funny buffalo sports fan well you were right on about the hv kingz coming back up there and doing what we do and thats win basketball games. Just in case you needed to know our uniforms were late getting to us so we had to get some other jersey's until our uniforms came thank you very much, we when my team has all of its players buffelo does not stand a chance against us sorry, and thats from me the hnic.. I am going to take a quote from shaq after that game on the 18th now tell me how my axx taste.

[HUDSON VALLEY KINGZ]

we lost by 20 we were up 3 at half time and then decided to let hudson valley make fools of us in the 2nd half and most of the fans left early in the 4th quarter. Buffalo head coach called hardly any timeouts during hudson valleys long runs, bad coaching played a big part in the loss. All around not good. I think that was my last stampede game unless a coaching change happens.

sorry about your loss but the coach did not loose that game for buffalo sorry the hudson valley kingz just beat you all and took it word. You know what they say about pay backs right nuff said...

[HUDSON VALLEY KINGZ]

here are some of the acpbl scores from week 3 for those keeping tract at home.

Saturday december 18th
ny lions 88 - garden state 109

hudson valley 110 - buffalo 92

sunday december 19th
beltway 95 - norfolk 116

tough loss for my buffalo stampede on saturday. Go stampede! Let's go buffalo

you see that hvk score right? Nuff said lets go...

[HUDSON VALLEY KINGZ]

looks like the owner vinnie lesh and his partner richard anselmo really did pull off a miracle so to speak.

Chris gadley center 6'9" 300 canisius (ncaa d-1)
justin sample center 6'9" 280 detroit mercy (ncaa d-1)

im hearing both players are in town, practicing and will be suited up this saturday and for the remainder of the season. From what i have been told, gadley will be the teams starting center from now on and sample will back him up. It is so nice to see the owners really commit to trying to deliver a championship. Never been so proud to be a buffalo stampede fan! Let's go buffalo!!!!!!!!!!!!

as far as big men go there great to have if they are any good, but also buffalo fans if its not broke well then dont fix it 2-0 before that hvk train rolled back into town..... If you saw what i saw the big men did not get off the bench in the 2nd half the game was to fast for them my guards are just to much at times real talk, doug herring started hitting and then mr. Prince jackson o its was over real talk, my big men they get up and down the floor not all big men do so being 6'9" dont mean nothing if you on the bench the whole time unless its for show... Shout out to coach williams he did a great job no matter what the people of buffalo say....

[Buffal00 Sports Fan]

Welcome Hudson Valley Kingz its nice to see this board catching on. Glad to hear those were not you're real uniforms and wish you the best on the season as you do have a very talented team when all of you're players show up. In my opinion Prince Jackson deserves to be in the dleague because its very rare to see a guard of his size so good at the level of the ACPBL. He is the best player in the ACPBL in my opinion and you will be hard to beat with him on the floor. That being said, I think we had an off night with bad coaching and we will give you a better game next time. Let's Go Buffalo!!!

[HUDSON VALLEY KINGZ]

Why thank you very much mr. Buffalo SPORTS fan. Well i would have to agree with you about mr. Prince tai-shon jackson he is the real deal no question about it, but he is not the only player of mine that needs to be at least in the d-league, its all about timing and getting a chance to be seen by bigger and better. I dont know this is our 1st yr so in time we will be ok i just hope that by next yr i will get a lot more help because everything is right out of the players and my pockets we dont have a money source our money source is our 9 to 5 jobs, thats how we make it to and from games so we are always going to be fighting a battle with this semi-pro thing until we find a sponsor that is willing ti help us. We are not like other teams we only practise once a week for 2hrs and we have not practised in over 3 weeks now so, for us to be 2-2 at this point is ok we want and will do better, but the fact is that we are just players that have played together and i have been coaching over the yrs now so i just put them all together and formed a team, we never had no try outs nothing i made some phone calls and put players in place...

[Buffal00 Sports Fan]

Well you are playing all 14 games on the road so it was already pretty much a dead give away that you were paying the entire season out of pocket. As a travel team you have no ticket revenue and no one will sponsor a team that they can not advertise at home games with so again no shock you are without a sponsor either.
There has been travel teams in the EBA and ABA but none of them have ever attempted to play a full season schedule for the exact out of pocket expenses you mention that comes with the territory of being a travel team. You are brave for playing a full season as a travel team. Typically travel teams in semi-pro leagues are always doormat teams that other teams beat up on even the IBL has a doormat travel team that never wins. You have already proven that you can win and compete as a travel team which sais a lot about you're players talent level and the coaching ability. The best thing you can do for the Kingz is make it through the season missing no games, make the playoffs and use that to help secure a venue and sponsors for the future. You have a long and tough road ahead of you, good luck!

[Buffalo Super Fan]

you see that hvk score right? Nuff said lets go...

Yes I saw the score it was a nice win by Hudson Valley Kingz. I want to second the welcome to the ACPBL board glad it is catching on. Tell more of your Hudson Valley Kingz fans about the ACPBL board so it grows. Let's Go Buffalo

[HUDSON VALLEY KINGZ]

well you are playing all 14 games on the road so it was already pretty much a dead give away that you were paying the entire season out of pocket. As a travel team you have no ticket revenue and no one will sponsor a team that they can not advertise at home games with so again no shock you are without a sponsor either.
There has been travel teams in the eba and aba but none of them have ever attempted to play a full season schedule for the exact out of pocket expenses you mention that comes with the territory of being a travel team. You are brave for playing a full season as a travel team. Typically travel teams in semi-pro leagues are always doormat teams that other teams beat up on even the ibl has a doormat travel team that never wins. You have already proven that you can win and compete as a travel team which sais a lot about you're players talent level and the coaching ability. The best thing you can do for the kingz is make it through the season missing no games, make the playoffs and use that to help secure a venue and sponsors for the future. You have a long and tough road ahead of you, good luck!
again thank you... Well only time will tell whats in store for us down the road so we do it one game at a time real talk.. Well i can tell you this none of my teams will ever be a doormat team sorry its just not in me or my players but i understand what you are saying.. Our goal from the beginning was to just go win the whole damn thing to tell you the truth thats what i told everybody before day one and nothing has changed but time thats still our goal and anything short of that would be a failure thats just how i coach win every game no matter what i guess thats just what we are going to have to do... Lets go hv kingz all day everyday three times on weekends word......

[HUDSON VALLEY KINGZ]

yes i saw the score it was a nice win by hudson valley kingz. I want to second the welcome to the acpbl board glad it is catching on. Tell more of your hudson valley kingz fans about the acpbl board so it grows. Let's go buffalo

trust me i will always do my best thats just me....

[Love Pro Hoops]

Congrats Hudson Valley Kingz,Being a travel has to be expensive.You guys should try to play in a rec center next year. The Rec center may even let you get it for free because its something positive for the kids and the community.Really do a lot of marketing in the off season so the community knows your there.It could be stuff as small as going to town parades,talking to kids at schools,Going to the local ymca passin out flyers with team info.That kind of stuff is free marketing and the best kinda of marketing is word of mouth. Good Luck on the season

God Bless

[HUDSON VALLEY KINGZ]

why thank you a lot lord knows we will need it..

[HUDSON VALLEY KINGZ]

Does anybody know the web site that i can find the game video of the stampede & the kingz from the 11th????

[!gobuffalo!]

I really hope there are significant changes being made to the Stampede team over the holiday break (players,coaches,etc). I really don't see us competing with the better teams in the league if things do not change in a hurry, starting with the coach. Coach Richmond needs to go IMMEDIATELY as I've stated in my past posts. What I saw out of him last game was awful. This next game against the NY Lions could get very ugly if we don't add a couple of actually useful big men. The big men they added for the last game were pathetic and hopefully are already off the team and were sent home.

[pistolpete]

I hear that Chris Gadley (Canisius) and Greg Gamble (UB) have joined the team and will be in uniform on Sat. Jan. 8th when the Stampede take on the NY Lions. I believe Coach Richmond will do a far better job this game as he is feeling a lot better and able to attend practices. If there is not improvement I know that Mr. Lesh will not stand for it. He is very committed to making this team work. I spoke to him today. GO BUFFALO.

[Buffal00 Sports Fan]

I have been scouting the NY Lions on usbasket and this game could get ugly in a hurry. The NY Lions have Rapheal Madera 6'11 from University of Delaware (NCAA D-1) they have another big named Chris Wheye 6'9 University of Quinnipac (NCAA D-1) they have another big named Eric Hall 6'8 University of Radford (NCAA D-1) and they have another big named Anthony Cox 6'10 Farmingdale State (NCAA D-3) who averaged 16 points and 12 rebounds in the EBA last season for the NY Wizards and almost led the league in blocked shots.

Instead of playing the national anthem on Jan 8th I think Vinnie Lesh should bring someone in that can play taps in the background because we are dead lol.

[DCAbloob]

Washington GreenHawks over Beltway Bombers 111-106 in the first league battle between the two D.C. area teams.

GreenHawks begin 2011 victorious, win 111-106 (http://www.gogreenhawks.com/news/index.html?article_id=279)

[!gobuffalo!]

greg gamble from ub is a good pick-up. i remember him from last year and he was an above average player in the PBL so he should be one of the best players in the league and a steady backcourt presence. the holes inside still scare me with the stampede. everyone who follows basketball in wny knows the problems with gadley..i really feel the stampede need to look for someone else. i guess well see saturday night!

[HUDSON VALLEY KINGZ]

i have been scouting the ny lions on usbasket and this game could get ugly in a hurry. The ny lions have rapheal madera 6'11 from university of delaware (ncaa d-1) they have another big named chris wheye 6'9 university of quinnipac (ncaa d-1) they have another big named eric hall 6'8 university of radford (ncaa d-1) and they have another big named anthony cox 6'10 farmingdale state (ncaa d-3) who averaged 16 points and 12 rebounds in the eba last season for the ny wizards and almost led the league in blocked shots.

Instead of playing the national anthem on jan 8th i think vinnie lesh should bring someone in that can play taps in the background because we are dead lol.

i said it before and i will say it again why have big men if there no good!!!!! The ny lions have the one big that if you let him get deep post he will score but other then that you got to push him and the others out the paint for real, there big but you still have to play your game...

[Buffal00 Sports Fan]

Buffalo beat the NY Lions by 15 points but the NY Lions deserve a lot of credit from what I heard from the non stop annoucements from Buffalo management over the PA and from the management off the record.

The NY Lions rented a 12 passanger van that never showed up so they were forced at the last second to put the starting 5 into a small compact rental car and send them to Buffalo.

Then on the way they ran through a horrible snow storm with near zero visablity and despite being told by everyone to stop and bag the game they did not give up.

They arrived at 9:05pm for a originally scheduled 7:30pm tip off and tip ended up being about 9:35pm. From what I hear the Lions players literally risked their lives in horrible weather conditions to fill a commitment to my Buffalo Stampede. We won tonight by 15 points but I also became a big fan of the NY Lions tonight. Let's Go Buffalo!

[!gobuffalo!]

I agree this showed a lot of will on the part of the NY Lions to fulfill their obligation to the Stampede and the league. Greg Gamble was a super addition to the team as his defense early really set the tone for the game. With his addition, I believe management should look to maybe move a few of the guards as their seems to be an overabundance at that position. Chris Gadleys debut was fair but he seemed to be out of shape and that scares me when we go up against solid bigs. Lastly, the majority of the crowd stayed and waited out the delay which was good, however I truly believe the Buffalo Stampede could be doing more to get people to the games, especially KIDS. I saw some of it last year with some schools and organizations, but nothing this year. WHY??? If some of the players go around to schools and hand out tickets or flyers and sign some autographs, no doubt some of these kids would force their parents to take them to the game. An extra 30 or 40 (low estimate) kids at each game would make a HUGE difference and be a building block to selling out these games. Also, if this is an area the Stampede looked to build their crowd, then make the game more kid friendly (face painters, mascots, intermission contests). There is so much EASY FREE things the management could be doing but its like they are just sitting back and being like "I hope people show up tonight". It doesnt work like that. Nobody knows these games are even happening unless you know a player on the team or are an avid minor league sports fan. Id like to know who was organizing those youth events the last couple years! Please Stampede Management you have a solid team in the right league..bring people to the games and show it off!!

[C l u t c H 385]

Kind of a disaster last night, but at least the game got played unlike many ABA games. I arrived at just about exactly 7:30 (the time the game was SUPPOSED to start). I was told at the door that the visiting team was running late due to weather and the game would probably start around 8, understandable. I figured the Lions were alreay there and getting dressed. Boy was I wrong.

8 comes and goes and an announcement is made that the Lions would be arriving in about 10 mins. About 20 mins later another announcement is made that the Lions will be arriving in about 25 minutes. WTF, right? Time goes on and on with the occasional announcement that the Lions will be arriving "momentarily." Finally at about 9:35 they said the Lions had arrived and the game started around 9:55...I dunno what clocks the earlier poster was looking at.

I can understand problems while transportation/weather. What I felt was HIGHLY unprofessional was the lies I was told. If a team hasn't even arrived yet, how can you say the game will only be delayed 30 minutes? Then these bogus time frames that were given were clearly lies. 10 minutes becomes 25 becomes indefinite?

TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE! I know exactly WHY they did it. Had I been told the game isn;t gonna start until 10 pm I would have left. That still doesn;t make it OK to lie to paying customers and make them sit in a gym for 2 and hours hours before a game is started. At least the Stampede did make the offer to bring our tickets to next weeks game for a free admission. That ends my rant on the pathetic display of the management...now on to the team.

I think Buffalo got VERY lucky in regards to what happened to the NY Lions. Or "Lion," as it curiously said on their jerseys (WTF was that?).

First of all only 6 players were able to make it. They were noticeably winded throughout the game and Buffalo was able to take advantage of that and get quite a few easy fast break points. The score after each quarter was as follows:

1st: 26 - 4
2nd: 51 - 33
3rd: 78 - 55
4th: 90 - 75

The Lions were forced to dress and warm up in ~20-25 minutes. They were obviously a little flat and stiff from what is a 7-8 hour drive in good conditions. Who knows how long they were actually driving for. This quarter is the only thing that saved the Stampede from an embarrasing loss to a 6 man team. If the Lions would have had a full squad I could easily see a 20+ point loss for the Stampede.

To call that new big guy, Gadley, dissapointing would be an understatement. He has poor hands, poor post moves and plays smaller than he is. He was constantly getting the ball knocked away on his post moves or when attempting a rebound. He also looks pretty out of shape and lazy.

This post is getting a little long, so I'll leave it at that.

[DCAbloob]

Well, this is bizarre. The Washington GreenHawks have withdrawn from the ACPBL after four games. The team owner claims the GreenHawks will continue as an independent team so it can more closely with work with a charity, Green Hoops for Hope. I never knew that good works required screwing over your league partners midseason but maybe that's just me.

Official Statement: GreenHawks cut ties with ACPBL (http://www.gogreenhawks.com/news/index.html?article_id=284)

UPDATE: In response to my Facebook inquiry, the ACPBL stated that the GreenHawks overextended financially and are now calling themselves a charity team in lieu of admitting that they folded. A league press release has been promised.

[Buffal00 Sports Fan]

Wow. Thanks for the info. I thought Tom Doyle and the Knighthawks/Greenhawks bashed the ABA for having teams folding? Or should we say leaving for charity reasons mid-season? Now that is ABAish lol. Thats a huge slap in the face of the other seven teams in the ACPBL that he and his team walked out on in mid-season. They should be ashamed of themselves, looks like they belonged in the ABA all along. Good for Sev and the PBL for giving this team the boot after last season, makes him look better now for doing so.

[DCAbloob]

And the ACPBL's press release is up. In this version, the GreenHawks owner got cold feet after poor attendance for the team's home season opener and called it quits two days later.

The GreenHawks have been replaced by the Virginia Avengers in the league and its standings. (Yes, without playing a league game yet, the Avengers are 2-2 in the league.) The top GreenHawks players are now with the Beltway Bombers.

Washington GreenHawks removed, Virginia Avengers are in! (http://www.acpbl.com/latest-news/63-washington-greenhawks-removed-virginia-avengers-are-in.html)

[nksports]

... the GreenHawks owner got cold feet after poor attendance for the team's home season opener and called it quits two days later.

Ahhh, the classic "we'll start a team, fund it with credit cards and player tryout fees until the $$$ starts rolling in when the season starts, but wait, where are all the people? The credit cards are maxxed out, the tryout fee money is spent, owner quickly soils his pants and pulls plug."

Seen it a million times before.

[CHris902]

Ahhh, the classic "we'll start a team, fund it with credit cards and player tryout fees until the $$$ starts rolling in when the season starts, but wait, where are all the people? The credit cards are maxxed out, the tryout fee money is spent, owner quickly soils his pants and pulls plug."

Seen it a million times before.

But the "Greenhawks" have been around in one incarnation or another since 2004. So if it was funded with credit cards they must have one hell of a credit limit.
My guess is that Doyle just gave up interesting in flushing his money down the toilet every year, particularly after leaving the ABA only to join another amateur league in the ACPBL.

[CHris902]

And the ACPBL's press release is up. In this version, the GreenHawks owner got cold feet after poor attendance for the team's home season opener and called it quits two days later.

The GreenHawks have been replaced by the Virginia Avengers in the league and its standings. (Yes, without playing a league game yet, the Avengers are 2-2 in the league.) The top GreenHawks players are now with the Beltway Bombers.

Washington GreenHawks removed, Virginia Avengers are in! (http://www.acpbl.com/latest-news/63-washington-greenhawks-removed-virginia-avengers-are-in.html)

Schutz needs to proofread his press releases before sending them out.

I am not at all sure who believe on this one given the ACPBL's leadership and their tendency to lie through their teeth.

[DCAbloob]

Schutz needs to proofread his press releases before sending them out.

I am not at all sure who believe on this one given the ACPBL's leadership and their tendency to lie through their teeth.

Keep in mind that last Saturday's game was the first regularly scheduled game for the Greenhawks in Washington, D.C. itself after years wandering around its Maryland suburbs. (One game was played in D.C. last season as a substitute site.) Perhaps Doyle realized after last Saturday that the District of Columbia wouldn't work out either as the GreenHawks' permanent home and he felt it just pointless to continue that way.

It wouldn't surprise me to see version 3 (or 4 or 5) of this franchise reemerge somewhere else in a year or two.

[Buffal00 Sports Fan]

Checked the schedule. Saturday night was the first home game of the season for the DC team so it does make a little sense now. Looks like they drew flies Saturday night and Doyle pulled an ABA move and bolted on the league and other teams. It may have been a smart business move if he was indeed set to lose a ton of money playing home games in DC. I just find it ironic that Doyle of all people who bashed the ABA for letting in teams who did not finish the season did the exact same thing he was bashing. The league found a team to take on the DC teams schedule so I guess it is not even a big deal as long the games scheduled still get played as scheduled. Let's Go Buffalo Stampede #2 in the ACPBL standings!

[time out]

What a clown! It further confirms some of my previous posts about our teams' dealings with him when he was running things with the PBL. As i've said before you can take people out of the ABA but you can't take the ABA out of people.

[Buffal00 Sports Fan]

I'm sure Sev and the PBL are getting a good chuckle out of this one as they clearly did the right thing by getting rid of the Doyle and his jokehawks. Gotta give my Stampede credit for hanging around. Lord only knows if we will be around next season but atleast my Stampede have not bailed out and burnt others in midseason like the jokehawks. Let's Go Buffalo Stampede #2 in ACPBL!

[pistolpete]

I'm really sorry to see the Greenhawks go. GM Adam Dantus is a great guy and loves basketball. Doyle is very tough to get along with and him folding this team is unacceptable. He is the guy who always bashed the teams that folded and now he is the one to fold. He is a JOKE. To the Buffal00 Sports Fan: I don't know who you are but you have pretty good knowledge of the team. As far as the Stampede folding that will not happen. Mr. Lesh loves basketball and Buffalo and will keep the team going for as long as he wants. I was with him this week and he told me that Daemen is paid in full for the entire season. Let's bring a championship to Buffalo.

[C l u t c H 385]

I'm sure Sev and the PBL are getting a good chuckle out of this one as they clearly did the right thing by getting rid of the Doyle and his jokehawks. Gotta give my Stampede credit for hanging around. Lord only knows if we will be around next season but atleast my Stampede have not bailed out and burnt others in midseason like the jokehawks. Let's Go Buffalo Stampede #2 in ACPBL!

I wouldn't get to used to that #2 rankings. They were very fortunate that the NY Lions, Lion, whatever they're called could only get 6 guys to that game.


Mr. Lesh loves basketball and Buffalo and will keep the team going for as long as he wants. I was with him this week and he told me that Daemen is paid in full for the entire season. Let's bring a championship to Buffalo.

Let's also hope he develops a love for his paying customers and won't lie to them repeatedly.

[TEAMDCBLAZE]

I was actually looking forward to seeing the Greenhawks play this season especially since they had that 2 game winning streak. It seemed like their season was going to be much better than last season when they were in the PBL. Even when they lost games this season they didnt get completely blown out like they use to. I'm not sure why they tried to move to DC because they had a good following when they played in Montgomery County,MD. I guess thats why they didnt get the turn out they wanted for their season opener. I also noticed they didn't have as much radio ads as they had last year.That team has been troubled for a long time and its so sad to see them go because they really were good at one time when they were the Knighthawks. They actually use to play in a real arena and not in high schools. Don't get me wrong theres nothing wrong with playing in a high school especially if its a large school with plenty of seats but theres nothing like being in a arena.

I wish they could have finished the season out. I hope all the players can find other teams especially the young guys.

[!gobuffalo!]

clutch - while I agree with you that the delay was horrible, calling the owner a liar is a stretch considering Im sure he was just relaying information the team driving was giving him not knowing this area and how far they were from the gym - once you've paid your money in all essence it really wouldn't matter to the owner's pocket whether you stayed or left..also its not like we are paying $30 a ticket either..its $5..if it reached a point where it got too late no matter how many minutes a way the announcer said the team was you should have left..nobody was forcing you to be there..lastly, for the record and Im sure you will debate otherwise I am not associated with the organization at all..I'll be at the game tomorrow wearing a black sweater and an Atlanta Braves hat if you'd like to come up and talk to me..Go Stampede!

[C l u t c H 385]

clutch - while I agree with you that the delay was horrible, calling the owner a liar is a stretch considering Im sure he was just relaying information the team driving was giving him not knowing this area and how far they were from the gym - once you've paid your money in all essence it really wouldn't matter to the owner's pocket whether you stayed or left..also its not like we are paying $30 a ticket either..its $5..if it reached a point where it got too late no matter how many minutes a way the announcer said the team was you should have left..nobody was forcing you to be there..lastly, for the record and Im sure you will debate otherwise I am not associated with the organization at all..I'll be at the game tomorrow wearing a black sweater and an Atlanta Braves hat if you'd like to come up and talk to me..Go Stampede!

I got there at 7:30. They obviously knew the Lions were not even in the building yet and I was told the game was starting at 8 pm? That make any sense to you? When I was told that I figured the Lions were getting dressed and would shortly be out to warm up.

And if you think I would have left without getting my money back think again. And it certainly SHOULD matter to an owner whether or not his paying customers are happy. Especially in a minor league where word of mouth is probably best and seemingly only form of advertisement.

But they strung it out and strung it out, Once I've already been there an hour, whats the big deal when they claim the game is starting in 25 minutes? I don't buy the whole bad information from the other team. Even if they didn't know how far they were if they just said WHERE they were the Stampede should know how long it would take.

Again, my guess is that they KNEW that people wouldn't want to wait around two and a half hours so they intentionally strung it along. if you don't think a team wants butts in the seats regardless of if they have already paid, I don't know what to tell you.

It was totally unprofessional.

[Buffal00 Sports Fan]

Clutch. I was at the same game you were at and they told us we can use the ticket stub to get into tomorrow nights game for free! So we paid $5 for two games instead of one game. I think you are in the minority when it comes to upset fans from that deal. I'm looking forward to a free admission game tomorrow! Let's Go Buffalo Stampede #2 in ACPBL and have a chance for a tie for #1 in ACPBL after this weekend as it looks like the best players on the folded Washington team joined with the Beltway Bombers who play the #1 Trailblazers and if Beltway wins and we win......were tied for #1 BABY BABYYYYY :)

[!gobuffalo!]

I agree with some of that, but at the end of the day neither you nor I know exactly what transpired. So I'm happy that I saw a basketball game for $5 (actually 2 considering they are letting everyone in FREE tomorrow with a ticket stub) and the Stampede continue to try to make this work in Buffalo. :)

[Buffal00 Sports Fan]

Dont waste you're time GoBuffalo! Anyone who complains about a 2 games for the price of one game when they would have paid full price for both games anyways has some issues.

Clutch forgets that the entire reason why the Lions were late in arriving was because they were on the road for 10+ hours in a SNOW STORM THAT ALMOST KILLED THEM, really get over it already. As I said before, the Lions are my new favorite ACPBL team. I would not have been caught dead on the road conditions that I heard they had to drive through just in order for guys like me and Clutch to see the game.

FREE GAME TOMORROW :) LET'S GO STAMPEDE!

[C l u t c H 385]

I understand what they did about tonight's game. I addressed it and gave them credit for in my first post about the game.

To deny that it is unprofessional to tell fans a game will start in a half hour when the other team hasn't even arrived in the parking lot is absurd to me. No matter what you believe about the rest of the "lies," there is no excuse for the first one.

[Buffal00 Sports Fan]

The Lions initially told them they would arrive around 7:30 thats why at 7:30 they were telling fans 8ish start time. The snow storm kept changing the time of arrival. Buffalo did the best they could in keeping us updated. I blame the storm for the game delay, not Buffalo.

[Buffal00 Sports Fan]

The Rebels beat my stampede tonight, we looked like a bad high school team in the 2nd half.

Heard a rumor at the game as I was leaving that the Beltway Bombers knocked off unbeaten Tru Hope Trailblazers but it's a rumor for now as I cant find a final score.

[DCAbloob]

The Rebels beat my stampede tonight, we looked like a bad high school team in the 2nd half.

Heard a rumor at the game as I was leaving that the Beltway Bombers knocked off unbeaten Tru Hope Trailblazers but it's a rumor for now as I cant find a final score.

Beltway indeed beat Tru Hope, 137-136 in double overtime. Ex-Greenhawk Hugh Jones scored 52 points for the Bombers including the winning free throw.

InsideNoVa: Hugh Jones scores 52 points in Bombers debut (http://www2.insidenova.com/sports/2011/jan/15/hugh-jones-scores-52-points-bombers-debut-ar-777565/)

[Buffal00 Sports Fan]

Looks like the DC greenhawks folding has changed the entire power balance in the ACPBL. The beltway bombers were the 7th place team but have taken the greenhawks top players and combined them with the top players they already had.

Pictures are starting to surface on facebook from the greenhawks home opener in DC and the cell phone picture I took a look at shows about 10 people total including the 'dream seats' lol. Given the attendance I can see why they folded but the greenhawks brought it upon themselves as karma caught up to the cocky Dantus/Doyle combo.

[C l u t c H 385]

REALLY sloppy game last night by the Stampede. They ended up getting beat by an again undermanned team (7 players for the Rebels). The Rebels didn't have any players over 6'5"- 6'6". They were missing their big guy who did plenty of damage last time the two teams played (#4 I believe).

Is this the norm for the visiting team in this league? Only bring 6-7 players and no caoch? What's the deal? anyone been to games other than at Buffalo?

[Buffal00 Sports Fan]

If you look at the ACPBL map Buffalo is a 6-8 hour drive for the closest teams in the league. We are the odd ball geographically in what is otherwise a cluster of teams. I think as long as teams realize that they can beat Buffalo short handed we may continue to see it.

[!gobuffalo!]

No way Buffalo should have gotten beat last night. That team was far less talented and like you said were undermanned without a coach. Once again, our coach proved he cant utilize the talent he has (in my mind is enough to be pretty competitive in this league). When is management going to get rid of this bum? Also, like I said in one of my earlier posts, #19 Johnson has to go as well. In the first quarter when things were going good for the Stampede he took horrible shots and did not play any defense. How this guy starts and is even on the team is baffling to me. Greg Gamble, Marcus Hall, and Chris Gadley are the players this team needs to build around. Besides that, Ubanks, A.J., Walker, and maybe Dodd are the only players worth keeping. I think management needs to start cleaning this team up while the season is still young if they want any chance to do anything in the post-season. What the Stampede really needs is a go to scorer. They dont have that. Their outside shooting is pretty horrible and their free throw shooting is well, equal or worse than a grammar school team. I would love to see this team add somebody like Andy Robinson (I realize hes not available) who can score when they NEED a basket. They just dont have the offensive firepower.

[Buffal00 Sports Fan]

I agree. It really makes no sense. The Buffalo Stampede roster they used on Saturday night was made up of all d-1 and d-2 players other then 2 or 3 players who sat at the end of the bench. On the other hand the Garden State Rebels only suited up seven d-3 players and took it to us, and only 2 of those 7 players were really any good.

Greg Gamble was a starter and impact player at NCAA D-1 Buffalo
Chris Gadley was a starter and impact player at NCAA D-1 Canisius
Marcus Hall was a starter and impact player at NAIA D-1 Robert Morris

AND YOU ARE TELLING ME WE CAN NOT DEFEAT A 7 MAN TEAM OF NCAA D-3 PLAYERS AND 5 OF THEM WERE HORRIBLE AND THEY DID NOT EVEN HAVE A COACH?

The GM who is bringing in the players is doing his job, if the Buffalo coach can not win with what he has when hes playing a bum 7-man team then the GM or owner must to let him go.

How many times must we see this happen before a coaching change is made?

[DCAbloob]

Another change for the ACPBL lineup:
The Tri-City Suns, not the Virginia Avengers, will now replace the Washington GreenHawks in the league. The Suns played ABA ball last year out of the Maryland suburbs of D.C. According to the ACPBL, the Avengers were unable to secure a home venue on short notice.

[TEAMDCBLAZE]

Another change for the ACPBL lineup:
The Tri-City Suns, not the Virginia Avengers, will now replace the Washington GreenHawks in the league. The Suns played ABA ball last year out of the Maryland suburbs of D.C. According to the ACPBL, the Avengers were unable to secure a home venue on short notice.

Dont be surprised if the Tri-City Suns get replaced in a few weeks by the EBA's Maryland Marvels, LOL. The owner of the Tri-City Suns has burned alot of bridges. People in the D.C. and PG County area that he rents gyms from are reluctant to let him use their gyms anymore. Also the only reason the Suns made it to the playoffs in the ABA is because most of the teams they were scheduled to play either folded mid season or forfeited games. The best player the Suns ever had was Baby Shaq Hugh Jones and he is now a Beltway Bomber. I thought this league was going to be one of the elite minor leagues on the east coast but I'm not sure anymore. One would think that the ACPBL would be trying to recruit more established teams like the EBA's Washington Madness, New York Wizards or the Elmira Bulldogs. The Virginia Avengers seemed like a great fit and have a good fan base. Since there are already a few Virginia teams in the ACPBL they probably should have worked out a deal where the Avengers could share a gym with another team and split rental cost and profits.

[Buffal00 Sports Fan]

Washington Madness are a joke. They play in a low end rec center. New York Wizards are a joke. They play in a middle school. Elmira Bulldogs seemed to have a good run but they no longer exist. If this was you're 3 best options....wow.

Atleast Tri-City is playing in a real gym on Saturday night.

Date: January 22, 2011
Beltway @ Tri-City 8:00pm tip-off
Location: Riverdale Baptist School, 1133 Largo Road, Upper Marlboro, MD, 20774
Seating Capacity: 1500 fans
Ticket prices: $8.00 (ages 13 and up), $4.00 (ages 8-12), FREE (ages 7 and under)

source: http://www.acpbl.com/latest-news/67-week-7-venue-and-ticket-information-for-fans.html

[TEAMDCBLAZE]

Washington Madness are a joke. They play in a low end rec center. New York Wizards are a joke. They play in a middle school. Elmira Bulldogs seemed to have a good run but they no longer exist. If this was you're 3 best options....wow.

Atleast Tri-City is playing in a real gym on Saturday night.

Date: January 22, 2011
Beltway @ Tri-City 8:00pm tip-off
Location: Riverdale Baptist School, 1133 Largo Road, Upper Marlboro, MD, 20774
Seating Capacity: 1500 fans
Ticket prices: $8.00 (ages 13 and up), $4.00 (ages 8-12), FREE (ages 7 and under)

source: http://www.acpbl.com/latest-news/67-week-7-venue-and-ticket-information-for-fans.html

The Suns always have Church gyms listed as their home venues but have been known to play at local area rec centers and boys and girls clubs at the last minute. Last season they listed Progressive Christian Academy located in Temple Hills, MD as the home venue but only played a few preseason games there.

There is nothing wrong with playing in a rec center if thats all you got to start off with. I Don't know if you been to any of the new Rec Centers recently built in Washington, DC like the Deanwood Rec Center in Northeast but they are nice sized and can sit hundreds of fans. The founding NBA teams started off as Rec League teams also. You got to start off somewhere ask the Boston Celtics. All that matters is pleasing your fans and winning. When you build your fanbase the bigger gyms will become available along with sponsors. Do the Suns even have a website anymore and what was the reason for leaving the ABA if they were capable of making the playoffs? Atleast the teams I named that are still playing in the EBA have winning records. Just because you have a large seating capacity in your gym doesnt mean the seats will get filled ask the Greenhawks.

But who knows maybe things will work out with the Suns and the first season of the ACPBL will be a successful one. Excuse me if my comments seem angry I'm a disgruntled Knighthawks/Greenhawks fan and I dont mean to be disrespectful to anyone. Just getting tired off seeing teams leave this new league, get put out, reinstated, and getting replaced again its frustrating as a fan of minor league basketball.

[C l u t c H 385]

Just because you have a large seating capacity in your gym doesnt mean the seats will get filled ask the Greenhawks.

Or the Stampede...

Who cares if it's at a middle school? Many middle schools have bigger gyms than Daemen. Mine did.

[Buffal00 Sports Fan]

I love the Daemen College gym. Full regulation court. They ripped out the old traditional bleachers. Installed new arena style chair back reserved seating. Daemen is nothing like a rec center. Or middle school gym. Also loved the fact that we got out of a 2600 seat gym for a 750 seat gym. When we had 500 fans at the season opener it was packed and electric. Huge home court advantage at Daemen. Go Stampede!

[C l u t c H 385]

I love the Daemen College gym. Full regulation court. They ripped out the old traditional bleachers. Installed new arena style chair back reserved seating. Daemen is nothing like a rec center. Or middle school gym. Also loved the fact that we got out of a 2600 seat gym for a 750 seat gym. When we had 500 fans at the season opener it was packed and electric. Huge home court advantage at Daemen. Go Stampede!

Haha, reserved seating?

How can you say it's nothing like a middle school gym? Is there a plan all middle school gyms stick to? Have you been to all middle schools and rec centers?

I seriously question if there were 500 people there opening night. And other than that I doubt there's been more than 100-125 people at a game. I want the Stampede to do well and like semi-pro ball as much as the next guy, but some of the stuff you say just has no basis in reality.

[Buffal00 Sports Fan]

Name me one middle school gym that has brand new scoreboard, shotclocks, locker rooms, the quality gym floor, arena style chair back seating like at NAIA D-2 Daemen College? Does not exist. You are way off base comparing Daemen College and a middle school.

[Buffal00 Sports Fan]

I have been at all five stampede home games. Did my best for a head count at each one.

1st game - 500

2nd game - 220

3rd game - 80

4th game - 75

5th game - 125

Total - 1000 divided by 5 = 200 per game. Not great but I bet it is a much higher average then any team in the EBA. And is higher then any teams in the ABA and CBL with the rare exceptions of Willmington Seadawgs and Jacksonville Giants. At the end of the day I bet 200 is what the Dayton PBL team averages for the season. I enjoy the games. Go Stampede!

[C l u t c H 385]

Name me one middle school gym that has brand new scoreboard, shotclocks, locker rooms, the quality gym floor, arena style chair back seating like at NAIA D-2 Daemen College? Does not exist. You are way off base comparing Daemen College and a middle school.

Plenty...any time a new middle school gym is built they're gonna have new scoreboards, floors, etc. And what do you mean by brand new? Daemen has had the same scoreboards for awhile now.

Have you ever even been in the locker rooms? I've been in dozens better locker room sin middle schools, high schools etc. There's nothing new about the Daemen locker rooms.

Comparing Daemen to a good middle school gym isn't a damning statement.

I also wouldn't exactly call a head count a great method.

I enjoy the games too, what's your point?

[Buffal00 Sports Fan]

You still have not named me one middle school gym with new chair back seating like Daemen College has? That type of seating is very expensive compared to regular bleachers. A school system is not investing in chair back seating for a middle school. Why cant you just admit you might have been wrong on this one?

[C l u t c H 385]

You still have not named me one middle school gym with new chair back seating like Daemen College has? That type of seating is very expensive compared to regular bleachers. A school system is not investing in chair back seating for a middle school. Why cant you just admit you might have been wrong on this one?

Wrong on what? First, u ask if any middle schools have gyms as nice as Daemnen. Yes they do. then do they have new scoreboards etc. Yes they do. I don't know if any have seat backs, but you act like its the greatest thing in the history of the world.

I never said Daemen had a bad gym. Just that middle schools can have good gyms.

[pistolpete]

Hot breaking news from the Buffalo Stampede. As the team left this morning for the away game tonight Coach Richmond was not on the trip. One of the players texted me and said he heard that he was released last night by Mr. Lesh. I know he has not been happy with the coaching and I think last game he saw enough. That was a game that the Stampede should have won. I think some medical issues that Coach Richmond has prevented him from doing the job he is capable of. I'll keep you posted if I get any more info.

[Buffal00 Sports Fan]

About time!

[!gobuffalo!]

clutch-why so negative? the buffalo stampede are trying to make this work and if you are supportive of that then stop bashing everything they do. is daemen the greatest gym in the history of the world? no. but the stampede found a gym that makes sense, that they can afford, and the games are playing. the chair backs arent the greatest thing since sliced bread but are important especially for older folks (like myself) who have trouble sitting on bleachers. it was important for the organization to lock up daemen because it is true MOST high schools and middle schools dont have that option. this is a building period for the stampede..if you truly disagree with everything they do then stop going to the games.

[Buffal00 Sports Fan]

I love what the Stampede are doing. Small but very nice d-2 college venue. 200 fans per game. Cheerleaders. Great public address announcer. If you're gonna compare it against the d-league and pbl then it is a last place operation. If you're gonna compare it against the rest of minor league basketball EBA, ABA, IBL, CBL.....the Buffalo Stampede is a top 5 operation hands down and that is what I'm proud of.

If you want the PBL experience then go down I-90 where the Rochester Razorsharks play. If you are about supporting a top 5 operation outside of the d-league and pbl then support the hometown team like the rest of us on this board.

Go Stampede!

[pistolpete]

Buffalo up by 5 at the half in tonights game on the road. Gadley and Jacobs are out of the line-up for tonights game with injuries. Lets get a WIN.

[pistolpete]

Buffalo wins tonight 114-104. I will post the stats when I receive them.

[Buffal00 Sports Fan]

Looks like the coaching change worked :)

[pistolpete]

Buffalo played an amazing game tonight. They had 7 players in double figures with Ajay Ruthledge (Daemen) leading the way with 25 points. Other double figure scorers were Marcus Hall 20, Vinnie Darpino 20, Greg Gamble (UB) 17, Justin Sample 16, Chuck Walker 14 and Mike Dodd had 12. The team played an inspired game after the loss at home last Saturday. The next game is at home on Saturday Jan. 29th at Daemen College 7:30pm. The Hudson Valley Kingz will be coming to try and knock off the high flying Stampede. New website is www.BuffaloStampedeACPBL.com

[TEAMDCBLAZE]

The game on Saturday night against the Beltway Bombers and the Tri-City Suns was full of action, excitement, and laughter.

The Suns started the first quarter with a 4 point lead until the Bombers coach quickly adjusted his teams game plan and took control of the lead. The Bombers never looked back as they were up by as much as 30 points in the first half. At times the Suns looked as if they were going to hang in there cutting their defecit to 19 points but continued missing free throws and three point shots.

The Suns coached after getting his third technical foul was asked to leave the game by the refs but stubbornly refused to leave and just folded his arms in anger. Finally the refs had enough and ended the game with 7:28 left in the fourth quarter with the final score Beltway Bombers 139 - Tri-City Suns 99.

Even though the Suns were losing by 40 points in the fourth quarter they did not want to quit and asked their coach to leave so they can finish the game respectfully but the Suns coached refused to listen.

[formerlyknownasfells]

The game on Saturday night against the Beltway Bombers and the Tri-City Suns was full of action, excitement, and laughter.

The Suns started the first quarter with a 4 point lead until the Bombers coach quickly adjusted his teams game plan and took control of the lead. The Bombers never looked back as they were up by as much as 30 points in the first half. At times the Suns looked as if they were going to hang in there cutting their defecit to 19 points but continued missing free throws and three point shots.

The Suns coached after getting his third technical foul was asked to leave the game by the refs but stubbornly refused to leave and just folded his arms in anger. Finally the refs had enough and ended the game with 7:28 left in the fourth quarter with the final score Beltway Bombers 139 - Tri-City Suns 99.

Even though the Suns were losing by 40 points in the fourth quarter they did not want to quit and asked their coach to leave so they can finish the game respectfully but the Suns coached refused to listen.

Reminds me of the Jacksonville/Maryland PBL game I broadcasted a few years back. Hugh Jones got his second technical and was tossed out of the game. After getting dressed, Jones came back out of the locker room to get his family, took too long and with Jacksonville up 14, the game was stopped and a victory awarded to the Jam.

Only in the minor leagues..........

[CHris902]

Two things:

1) Do people have such a short memory about Elmira? They'll never be in the ACPBL because they folded when their incompetent owner tried to revive a failing organization by paying thousands of dollars to Dennis Rodman to coach two games as a publicity stunt. They lost even more money on that gong show, blamed the community for a lack of support and then folded the team. After realizing he lacked the ability to run an amateur team in the EBA the team's owner went on to found the ACPBL.

2) If one of the "top five" minor league organizations outside of the DLeague and the PBL is drawing 200 or less fans a night and clinging on to a 3-2 (4-2 now?) record in the ACPBL then I think that the minor leagues are in even worse shape than any of us had imagined.

[Buffal00 Sports Fan]

Elmira Bulldogs never missed a game in three full seasons. Not exactly what I would term as folding. Played in 2008 NPBL championship game, played in 2009 EBA championship game and lost in quarterfinal playoff last season in 2010 against New York Wizards. They stopped playing because the owner/coach now works for the ACPBL. Look at all the shady things that took place in the PBL from team owners running the league. Just ask Battle Creek Knights who got screwed by the PBL owned Rochester Razorsharks. All that being said I'm glad the ACPBL is not corrupt in that department.

[Buffal00 Sports Fan]

Pistol pete how serious is the Chris Gadley injury? We are S.O.L. without him. He is the only true big man we have.

[Buffal00 Sports Fan]

ACPBL updated the standings on league site. Were hitting the half way point of the ACPBL's 1st season ever. So far no missed games. That being said I will give them the midway point grade of a overall C+. Would be much higher but they did have 1 team fold (Greenhawks) that needed a replacement (Suns).

Team W L
Trailblazers 4-1
Lions 4-2
Stampede 4-2
Rebels 4-2
Bombers 3-4
Suns 2-3
Kingz 2-4
WildKatz 1-6

[turbocamyes]

... So far no missed games.

No a big deal, but there was one game on the 1st between Westchester and Garden State that seems to have been postponed until the 29th. All told, not bad.

[Buffal00 Sports Fan]

Turbo they made mention of that game date change in a release. Given the current state of minor league basketball I'm shocked that the ACPBL has had no missed games half way through season #1. Maybe the ABA, IBL and CBL should be taking notes.


source: http://www.acpbl.com/latest-news/59-week-4-venue-and-ticket-information-for-fans.html

[turbocamyes]

Turbo they made mention of that game date change in a release. Given the current state of minor league basketball I'm shocked that the ACPBL has had no missed games half way through season #1. Maybe the ABA, IBL and CBL should be taking notes.


source: http://www.acpbl.com/latest-news/59-week-4-venue-and-ticket-information-for-fans.html

I figured that was the case. I haven't had the free time to watch the league closely, but it certainly is good news. Hopefully the league can build on their early success.

Thanks for the link.

[pistolpete]

Buffal00 Sports Fan, Chris needed a week off to rest a sore back. He will be at practice tomorrow and should be ready to go on Saturday. Justin Sample had 16 points yesterday and was a great presence under the basket. With the Trailblazers losing today there is a 4 way tie for first place in the ACPBL. Four teams are 4-2. The Stampede, Trailblazers, Rebels and NY Lions. The game on Saturday against Hudson Valley is a big one. Coach Richmond has been released. The interim coach is Mr. Charles Walker who coached the first game of the season while Richmond was in the hospital. That's all for now.

[C l u t c H 385]

clutch-why so negative?

Acknowledging that some middle schools have nice gyms is negative? Ok. My whole point was a RESPONSE to a negative post - that other teams/leagues aren't as god because they play in a middle school gym. That staement makes no sense.

If you want to say a small court, a court with no seating etc. that's one thing. But to write it off simply because it is a middle school gym is ridiculous.

Pistol pete how serious is the Chris Gadley injury? We are S.O.L. without him. He is the only true big man we have.

i haven't been impressed by him. He's very inefficient for how big he is.

[!gobuffalo!]

i agree gadley could play better at times, and hopefully will going forward..but 15 points 11 rebounds, and 14 points 10 rebounds definitely helps, plus he definitely has a presence defensively with his shot blocking ability.

[C l u t c H 385]

i agree gadley could play better at times, and hopefully will going forward..but 15 points 11 rebounds, and 14 points 10 rebounds definitely helps, plus he definitely has a presence defensively with his shot blocking ability.

My point had more to due with his efficiency. How many times does he fumble the ball away or grab a rebound just to have it immediately knocked away? A lot from what I've seen.

[pistolpete]

I'm sure that everyone has heard that the Vermont Frost Heaves have folded with Dayton and Kentucky not far behind. It looks like the PBL is in trouble. Will the Doc blow more of his personal money to keep this loser league alive? It is the worst business model in professional sports. You would have to average 2500+ fans a game to come close to break even. I'm glad that the Stampede moved into the ACPBL. It seems that Mr. Lesh did the right thing changing leagues. Lets GO STAMPEDE.

[C l u t c H 385]

I'm sure that everyone has heard that the Vermont Frost Heaves have folded with Dayton and Kentucky not far behind. It looks like the PBL is in trouble. Will the Doc blow more of his personal money to keep this loser league alive? It is the worst business model in professional sports. You would have to average 2500+ fans a game to come close to break even. I'm glad that the Stampede moved into the ACPBL. It seems that Mr. Lesh did the right thing changing leagues. Lets GO STAMPEDE.

Um, wasn't the change decided more by the PBL than the Stampede?

[LightningMan]

Um, wasn't the change decided more by the PBL than the Stampede?
Yeah. They (the Stampede) were kicked out. Just another pot stirrer.

[Buffal00 Sports Fan]

Buffalo leaving the PBL saved the Buffalo Stampede from suffering the same fate as the Vermont Frostheaves and soon to be fate of the Dayton and Kentucky teams. At the end of the day I still have my favorite team the Stampede. As far as the PBL kicking out the Stampede? Then they go add the Dayton Airstrikers? If Buffalo was really kicked out it sounds a little hypocritical to me lol.

[pistolpete]

Let's set the record straight. The Stampede were not kicked out of the PBL. When the organization was told that they had to start paying travel expenses even though their contract with the league said that the PBL would cover all travel expenses they decided to leave. The teams can't afford to play games in Oklahoma and Puerto Rico if they have to foot the travel bill. The other big mistake the PBL made was to bring in teams that were far superior to the rest of the teams. That's why teams were getting beat by 50 or more points. Who wants to see that type of game even if you are on the winning side? So the move to make was the ACPBL where 4 teams are tied for first place going into the 7th week of the season. I hope this sets the record straight. RIP PBL

[C l u t c H 385]

Well...so they were kicked out because they refused to pay for their own travel? And I can't fault a league for wanting to have good teams.

[LightningMan]

Well...so they were kicked out because they refused to pay for their own travel? And I can't fault a league for wanting to have good teams.
Anyone can come on here and say anything. However, according to the release at the time of the separation, Buffalo was severed from the league for failing to adhere to league standards.

http://www.oursportscentral.com/services/releases/?id=4015785

As someone else noted, it seems to be working out for them. But that was the reason.

[LightningMan]

The other big mistake the PBL made was to bring in teams that were far superior to the rest of the teams.
That might be the mistake from Rochester's perspective, but in their first year in the PBL, a year where the Detroit Panthers, Chicago Throwbacks, and Mid-Michigan Destroyers were all part of the league, Buffalo won exactly one game, their first, against the Sea Dawgs, who were just getting used to their new coach at the time.

Buffalo did not need help to be the worst in the league.

[Buffal00 Sports Fan]

Buffalo had signed contract saying PBL would pay for all Buffalo Stampede travel. PBL went back on the signed deal. Buffalo Stampede said no way were paying travel. We have a signed contract saying you pay for travel. Thus PBL said you did not meet PBL standards.

PBL is great at breaking rules they set. Just ask Battle Creek. Buffalo was genius in turning down paying for travel. Just ask Vermont, Dayton and Kentucky. Looks like Buffalo Stampede will be the only one of those four teams who actually finish the season. Jokes on PBL.

[C l u t c H 385]

Buffalo had signed contract saying PBL would pay for all Buffalo Stampede travel. PBL went back on the signed deal. Buffalo Stampede said no way were paying travel. We have a signed contract saying you pay for travel. Thus PBL said you did not meet PBL standards.

PBL is great at breaking rules they set. Just ask Battle Creek. Buffalo was genius in turning down paying for travel. Just ask Vermont, Dayton and Kentucky. Looks like Buffalo Stampede will be the only one of those four teams who actually finish the season. Jokes on PBL.

do you have a source?

[Buffal00 Sports Fan]

Several. Just ask around or listin in on conversations at Stampede games. I was not the only one with this information. Look back in the thread. The Pistolpete guy posted it first.

[C l u t c H 385]

So...hearsay? That's what you're going with?

[Buffal00 Sports Fan]

Not really. Its public knowledge that when the PBL was created they said they would pay for travel for all teams. Its public knowledge that this season for the first time ever the PBL backed out on the free travel. Once free travel left. Buffalo left.

Either side can blame the other. I will side with Buffalo. Im sure the only reason they joined the PBL was for the free travel promises made by the PBL. If those free travel promises still existed so would the Vermont Frost Heaves.

[preeths]

So you're claiming the paid travel was in perpetuity? I'd fully expect that issue to be re-visted every year.

[time out]

So...hearsay? That's what you're going with?

It's fact. You can call the league office or any current team that has been around a couple of years and they will confirm. The original plan that attracted teams was that the PBL had no fee to play, They pay all travel, referees, and uniforms. On top of that the teams would share equally in revenue generated by the league through sponsorship as the games would be televised in China. Their theory was that sponsorsors would be knocking down the doors to advertise with the PBL because of the massive audience they would attract in China. Problem is, China doesn't care any more about minor league basketball than the US. Sponsors didn't come knocking and Sev is stuck paying all the bills out of his pocket. It didn't help him that he did some shady things in the first couple of years.

[Buffal00 Sports Fan]

Timeout that is exactly what I am talking about. If you're entire sales pitch is come join us and you will never have to pay for travel, uniforms or refs. Teams expect that they will never have to pay for travel, uniforms or refs. PBL was created on false promises and as a result its falling apart right infront of us.

[time out]

So you're claiming the paid travel was in perpetuity? I'd fully expect that issue to be re-visted every year.

It was perceived to be perpetual by not only the teams but by the PBL also. On top of them paying for everything they were going to share all of the additional revenue with each of its teams.

[preeths]

"Perceived" to be? My heart weeps for the state of minor league basketball.

[time out]

"Perceived" to be? My heart weeps for the state of minor league basketball.

Agreed. Until demand equals supply it will be a losing proposition.

[!gobuffalo!]

Clutch-
I live in Buffalo and know people connected to the team, as well as other staff members of PBL teams in other markets..its not hearsay, what BSF and timeout are saying is exactly correct. Buffalo chose to leave the PBL because they made promises they couldnt keep such as free travel,money from China deals, etc. It made no sense for the stampede to try to cover all those expenses and still try to compete. The PBL heads constantly make promises to the teams and nothing ever comes out of it. This was the last straw and Buffalo said goodbye. It was absolutely the right move and were seeing that other teams in the PBL are catching the drift that the PBL model is NOT EFFECTIVE. Im glad the stampede left in time that there is a game this saturday for me and my boys to go watch. I like the ACPBL because it makes it keeps costs low and makes it viable for these teams to compete, cover their expenses, and continue to build. GO STAMPEDE!

[C l u t c H 385]

I'm not sure you understand the meaning of hearsay...

[LightningMan]

I'm not sure you understand the meaning of hearsay...
Allow me to help.

hear·say (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/hearsay)

–noun
1. unverified, unofficial information gained or acquired from another and not part of one's direct knowledge.

[preeths]

Agreed. Until demand equals supply it will be a losing proposition.

Absolutely correct, and therein lies most of the problems. Until that day, should it every come, the only true minor professional basketball will be provided by people willing and able to lose lots of money.

[preeths]

It was absolutely the right move and were seeing that other teams in the PBL are catching the drift that the PBL model is NOT EFFECTIVE. Im glad the stampede left in time that there is a game this saturday for me and my boys to go watch. I like the ACPBL because it makes it keeps costs low and makes it viable for these teams to compete, cover their expenses, and continue to build. GO STAMPEDE!

Which model for minor league basketball is effective again? Hasn't at least one team already stopped playing this season in the ACPBL?

[Buffal00 Sports Fan]

ACPBL is far from perfect. Just has some good ideas. Regionalized travel being the biggest. No wealthy owners yet no missed games. If you put these same ACPBL ownership groups 12 hours apart from the nearest team you would witness disaster.

[preeths]

The problem that some of these leagues run into is that eventually there aren't enough wealthy enough owners in a specific geographic region. Then compromises are made just to keep the league afloat. We'll see how the ACPBL survives those challenges over the next few seasons. I'd submit that the PBL and ACPBL are operating at two different levels as well. Doesn't make one or the other wrong, only that they have different goals.

[Buffal00 Sports Fan]

Preeths. I agree with you 110%. I even suggested a poster who was critical of the Stampede may want to head down I-90 and check out the Razorsharks. They run a NBA game atmosphere. PBL has the ideas that would create a premier minor league basketball league. Issue is not enough demand for PBL teams outside of Rochester, Halifax and Saint John. Not enough demand for minor league basketball period. Its a dying business. You either cut costs and regionalize or bad things happen. Buffalo Stampede joined ACPBL. Stampede cut costs. Stampede have regionalized travel. Smart move all the way around for Buffalo.

[C l u t c H 385]

What do you mean smart move? Just that they still exist? I can't imagine they're making any money.

[Buffal00 Sports Fan]

Name me three minor league basketball franchises in north america that ARE making money? You can even include the d-league. Name me three? This whole business is about existing and either breaking even or not going deep in red.
VERY smart move by Buffalo. 200 fans a night. 100% take on concessions. Local players. Minimal travel. I'm sure they are one of only a handful of teams in North America breaking even in this economy.

[C l u t c H 385]

Name me three minor league basketball franchises in north america that ARE making money?

Why? I was just asking what you meant. Why not just answer instead of trying to change the issue? And why three?

You can even include the d-league. Name me three? This whole business is about existing and either breaking even or not going deep in red.
VERY smart move by Buffalo. 200 fans a night. 100% take on concessions. Local players. Minimal travel. I'm sure they are one of only a handful of teams in North America breaking even in this economy.

That 200 a night is not official and even then is largely skewed by the first night. You nor I have any idea how many PAID admissions they get. Now that Daemen is back in session maybe they can start to draw larger crowds again.

[Buffal00 Sports Fan]

I said three because If I said name one. You could name Saint John Mill Rats. I think they may be the only profitable minor league basketball team in north america.

I agree that the large opening night crowd in Buffalo is raising the fan per game average. Buffalo has played almost every home game since then with Daemen College on winter break. 200 average could be on the rise starting this Saturday with students finally back on campus. Of course a win might help as well.
Let's Go Stampede.

[C l u t c H 385]

So again, why do you consider the move smart? Simply because they still exist?

[Buffal00 Sports Fan]

Why was the ACPBL a smart move for Buffalo?
1. they still exist
2. its low budget so they can continue existing
3. as a fan its finally fun going to games because were in a playoff run for the first time ever
Let's Go Stampede!

[C l u t c H 385]

Well how long can they continue to exist if they're losing money? And does that really make it a smart move or just a less dumb move?

[Buffal00 Sports Fan]

I never said they were in the red this season. My guess is they are not in the red. I think they are getting Daemen College for free because they have 4 or 5 Daemen College alumni. These alumni either graduated last season or are still attending classes. These alumni are VERY close with the Daemen College head coach who lucky for the stampede happens to be the Daemen College athletic director. If not free then they are probably getting Daemen for peanuts (janitorial costs). Then throw on ticket sales and concessions for the stampede. Only 4 road games. All local players. My guess is when all is said and done they break even or come out ahead.

[C l u t c H 385]

What are you basing all of this on? Just guesses? Do you know ANY of the players and their relationship with the the AD?

I think I remember a post awhile back that said the Stampede had paid Daemen in full for the season. I would be surprised to find out that Daemen College would let someone use their facilities for free.

[!gobuffalo!]

Ive spoken to people within the organization as well as the owner and partners themselves so this is DIRECT knowledge and not hearsay, so I do in fact know what the word means. Also, moving to the ACPBL was a smart move for a number of reasons which already have been mentioned (existence, regionalized travel,etc.) I agree that the Stampede probably arent making tons of money but from what ive heard from one of the owners that isnt the goal at this very moment. The goal is to build from the ground up and make the ACPBL a strong league that can continue to build as well. Clutch, I would recommend going and talking to the owners after the games-they are very nice, open guys who probably would answer many of the questions you seem unhappy with us answering on here.

[LightningMan]

I've spoken to people within the organization as well as the owner and partners themselves so this is DIRECT knowledge and not hearsay, so I do in fact know what the word means.
No. You don't. Because you don't have direct knowledge, it is still hearsay unless you have independently verified that which you have been told.

[!gobuffalo!]

I'm not going to sit here and debate the meaning of a word, but I am speaking of the term hearsay in legal terms, and coming from a family of lawyers I have always known the word to mean "information that comes from another that cannot be verified". When I say I have spoken to PBL staff members themselves who I know personally (who make the rules!) as well as numerous owners and partners, how can I get any more direct and verified without making the rules and drawing up the contracts myself? This is not hearsay because it can be VERIFIED by calling the PBL office and speaking with them DIRECTLY. Also, everything I state concerning the current state of the team in the ACPBL is not hearsay because I go right to the source (the owners).

[C l u t c H 385]

You're not one of the lawyers I hope...

[!gobuffalo!]

not a lawyer..although I'm not sure what your comment is intended to mean..I was explaining where I obtain what I said and in conjunction with supporting the statements of others on the board such as BSF and the other poster..clutch, do you attend the buffalo stampede games? if you do, and you care that much about the validity of my statements, then meet me after the game tomorrow and we discuss more in person? if not, then can we all just find a place under the umbrella that is the stampede finishing the season and being successful in the future and not bicker on a message board?