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wasteland
07-27-2010, 10:37 PM
WIFR out of Rockford reported tonight that Joe Stefani, President and majority owner of the Rockford Foresters is in prelim talks with the Metrocentre about bringing a D-league team to the arena. He says he is looking for additional investors and a fair lease from the arena. He hopes to make a decision in the next 60-90 days with a possible start in time for 2011-2012 season. Stefani noted in a brief on camerea interview that because the NBA picks up salaries and workmans comp it makes the most sense
fianicially to go to the D-league.

A basketball team hasn't called the metrocentre home since the Rockford Lightning of the CBA folded in 2006.

WHile it would be great to get a d=league team, I don't see it being a major draw. The Lightning lost money year after year and stuck around for so long because of a great owner, the late Wayne Tempe. Hey, it would be great to get Daleo back on the sidelines and off the ball diamond as well. Right NSF?

Ken, Steelheads fan
07-28-2010, 03:05 PM
Never say never, but the D-League would NEVER work in Rockford. The Metrocentre actually owns the IceHogs hockey team and would NEVER give a competing fall/winter team good dates. Heck, the CBA Lightning couldn't get good dates BEFORE the Metrocentre took over the IceHogs. Rockford is a hockey town now.

Also, the timing is all wrong. Baseball is almost recession proof (although attendance is down nationwide), but Rockford currently has the highest unemployment rate in the state of Illinois. The IceHogs can't make a profit. The few Rockford fans who didn't convert to hockey are more likely to put food on the table than buy basketball tickets. A D-League team wouldn't make a profit either.

preeths
07-28-2010, 03:20 PM
Minor league baseball attendance as a whole is up this year, with 11 of 15 affiliated leagues seeing gains this season. Rockford looks to be off about 79 fans per game from last season.

Ken, Steelheads fan
07-28-2010, 04:49 PM
Yep, I'm still hung-up on last year when 81% of all minor league baseball was down. It's up this year...except in Gary where things are backwards. Record attendance last year and down THIS year.
http://www.oursportscentral.com/boards/showthread.php?t=17640

Elkhart is the Rockford of Indiana. Worst unemployment rate in the state of Indiana. Of course, there's talk of fall/winter basketball coming there too. Same everything. Same competition from another fall/winter sport, except in Elkhart the competition is high school basketball.

wasteland
07-28-2010, 05:47 PM
Never say never, but the D-League would NEVER work in Rockford. The Metrocentre actually owns the IceHogs hockey team and would NEVER give a competing fall/winter team good dates. Heck, the CBA Lightning couldn't get good dates BEFORE the Metrocentre took over the IceHogs. Rockford is a hockey town now.

Also, the timing is all wrong. Baseball is almost recession proof (although attendance is down nationwide), but Rockford currently has the highest unemployment rate in the state of Illinois. The IceHogs can't make a profit. The few Rockford fans who didn't convert to hockey are more likely to put food on the table than buy basketball tickets. A D-League team wouldn't make a profit either.

Technicially, the city of Rockford (and the tax payers) owns the Icehogs.The MetroCentre Authority that bought the team is actually part of the city. Many here locally are wanting the city to explore selling the team since lay-offs and cuts in all city services are on the chopping block.

And do the make a profit? The jury is still out on that. I've been told that people within the organization claim a profit of around the 100k, but it's hard to tell because the Icehogs are grouped all together with all the other events at the Metrocentre when figuring to see if the arena is making or losing money.

Coming soon, management of the arena is going to be outsourced to firm that specializes in that. Good move imo.

But I agree D-League wouldn't work. The Rockdford Fury played at Rockford College and they drew around 400 a game/

I still do miss the Lightning days. Those games were alot of fun.

Buffalo Super Fan
07-29-2010, 12:16 AM
I wonder if Rockford comes in potentially in 2011-12 if that is the date that potential Buffalo to the d-league group who ever they are would be coming in then too? Meaning Buffalo sits out 2010-11 from minor league basketball to set everything up for a start in 2011-12 just wondering? Like a D-League expansion pair Rockford and Buffalo. Anyone hear anymore about Buffalo to the D-League? Let's Go Buffalo

not so fast
07-29-2010, 06:43 PM
First of all, the D-league doesn't care about attendance that much. But If you put a team in Rockford, with the NBA behind the team, and you put coach Daleo on the sideline, It will be a hugh sucess in Rockford.

And they will eventually draw good crowds, and I think you will see good sponsors on board as well. In spite of the economy, there is enough people there to support a good solid basketball team. Geez ken, they don't play 7 nights a week, and in spite of the economy, people would love to see the next NBA call ups, just like they did in Rockford for 15 years.

One or two basketball tickets will not keep your family from eating or cause them any more financial hardship,.

Even if you poor or struggling, you still need an outlet of somekind. And for many seeing maybe the next Derek Rose might just be that outlet.

Ken, Steelheads fan
07-29-2010, 07:33 PM
not so fast,
Forget Rockford and big time fall/winter basketball. It's not going to happen. You're living in the past. A team won't survive without good dates. The city of Rockford isn't going to work against the hockey team it owns. Even if the city sells the team, the new owners aren't likely to give up their dates. Plus, the whole D-League/Rockford thing is a pipe-dream of Joe Stefani. I read the article (somewhere). He doesn't have any money. He's looking for investors. Heck, just about everyone in the country is looking for investors about now. The country is broke.

Buffalo Super Fan,
Forget Rockford. If anything happens anywhere near Chicago with the D-League, it will probably happen in Hoffman Estates, IL at the Sears Center. It's a new place, but in terrible financial shape because they have had so many problems finding tenants. Rockford or Hoffman Estates, I guess it shouldn't matter to you as long as there was a team to pair-up with Buffalo (...and no, I haven't heard about a team for Buffalo). Personally, I don't think a team would work at the Sears Center either. I can't see fans braving that traffic for minor league basketball...well, maybe not so fast would. 8)

Buffalo Super Fan
07-30-2010, 02:12 AM
not so fast,
Forget Rockford and big time fall/winter basketball. It's not going to happen. You're living in the past. A team won't survive without good dates. The city of Rockford isn't going to work against the hockey team it owns. Even if the city sells the team, the new owners aren't likely to give up their dates. Plus, the whole D-League/Rockford thing is a pipe-dream of Joe Stefani. I read the article (somewhere). He doesn't have any money. He's looking for investors. Heck, just about everyone in the country is looking for investors about now. The country is broke.

Buffalo Super Fan,
Forget Rockford. If anything happens anywhere near Chicago with the D-League, it will probably happen in Hoffman Estates, IL at the Sears Center. It's a new place, but in terrible financial shape because they have had so many problems finding tenants. Rockford or Hoffman Estates, I guess it shouldn't matter to you as long as there was a team to pair-up with Buffalo (...and no, I haven't heard about a team for Buffalo). Personally, I don't think a team would work at the Sears Center either. I can't see fans braving that traffic for minor league basketball...well, maybe not so fast would. 8)

Ken I forgot Rockford for D-League after seeing them as a disaster in the MISL indoor soccer the Rockford Rampage MISL. Wow the MISL has hit rock bottom in my opinion if Rockford is passing for MISL these days. I remember when the original MISL had a team in Buffalo the Buffalo Stallions MISL I was a huge fan of them as a kid. Then the NPSL indoor soccer Buffalo Blizzard NPSL came to town in the 1993. I owned Buffalo Blizzard NPSL season tickets for the nine years they were here and never did Buffalo draw what is passing for MISL indoor soccer in Rockford even in the Buffalo Blizzard's last year when the team was failing drawing only 4,000 plus.

Ken see the thing with Buffalo if the rumored group is able to get in the D-League team it might possiblely work in Buffalo. Because the Buffalo Sabres NHL have over 14,000 season ticket holders caped already. The Buffalo Sabres NHL is basically almost soldout out for the year at HSBC Arena.

I know that is apples and oranges Ken but my point is there is a market here. Buffalo isn't like Rockford I wish I had AHL hockey with those cheap ticket prices to buy tickets to games too because I love sports live. The Buffalo Sabres ticket cost money not everyone can afford that I know I am reduce to watching on tv now other then a game or two once in a while because season tickets are beyond me the NHL outpriced me personally years ago. The Buffalo Sabres have gold and silver etc games look at our prices there high it isn't like AHL hockey prices.

If I could even get a season Buffalo Sabres NHL ticket which you can't there is a waiting list in Buffalo called Blue and Gold I think that is the name of the list I never went there because the NHL outpriced me like I said. That is why I have season tickets to the Buffalo Bandits NLL because it is affordable at $20.

If the D-League is done right in Buffalo it has a chance because there aren't tickets available for the Buffalo Sabres NHL that is one of the reasons why the Buffalo Bandits NLL average over 16,000 in 2010. If the D-League team can get a good rent lease at UB Alumni Arena or Buffalo State Sports Arena or the Flick Center at ECC City the Buffalo D-League has a chance in my opinion.

The first Buffalo Rapids ABA game ever in Buffalo drew over 3,000 packed house I was there then the owner ran away and the rest is history as you know Ken. If Buffalo gets a good owner with D-League with the NBA behind it then it has a chance in Buffalo but again even with Buffalo nothing is guaranteed as you know Ken. Ken you mentioned traffic for Chicago D-League that is the another positive for Buffalo D-League what traffic everything is 20 minutes and your there in Buffalo which helps in my opinion with attendance because there isn't a battle with traffic just snow which I am used to after living here for 42 years plus in Buffalo. Let's Go Buffalo

nksports
07-30-2010, 11:28 PM
I don't know how well Rockford would do (they would need a Bulls affiliation to have any chance of success). But I do have the perfect team name:
(drum roll please)

THE ROCKFORD FILES

(Still has one of the greatest opening themes of all time)

not so fast
07-31-2010, 12:21 AM
Rockford will do just fine, in spite of the gloom and doomer ken steelheads fan, he still wants to turn every town in America into Gary indiana. Yes it helps to have prime nights for games, but it can still work, and secondly, if the NBA wants the team to be there, it will be there. The country might be broke ken, but the NBA is not broke. And they have great influence over a lot of potential owners and investors. they are not joe nueman.

And ken will please stop with the unemployment statistics of every city. I think you must be part of the main stream media, always spreading bad news. Finally, I was in Rockford not too long ago, I didn't see the homeless, starving beggers, I didn't see boarded up stores everywhere. Now on Broadway Ave in Gary Indiana? Well that looks like the depression.

panchess
07-31-2010, 06:24 AM
The Lakers folded their franchise in the D-League. If they don't have money, who does? While the NBA wants a farm system, it's never going to be at the same cost and support as MLB. If they had to self-support, half the affiliated minor league teams would be gone in two seasons.

The CBA never got much past 16 teams, and I think the D-League is near its natural limit of teams as well. Will there be some shuffle in the cities? Sure. The days of natural D-League expansion are pretty much over, though.

Ken, Steelheads fan
07-31-2010, 10:41 AM
not so fast,
Stop shooting the messenger. The NBA is affected by the economy just like everyone else.

nksports
07-31-2010, 03:51 PM
The Lakers folded their franchise in the D-League. If they don't have money, who does? While the NBA wants a farm system, it's never going to be at the same cost and support as MLB.

Allow me to disagree. The LA Defenders costs less to operate than the one average NBA wage. I don't think the Defenders hurt the Lakers bottom line much at all, especially after winning an NBA title. The Lakers could own and operate the Clippers with little impact on the bottom line.
What the Lakers (and some of the other top owners) are angling for is an elimination of the salary cap. That would eliminate the need (in the owner's mind) of player development.
Yes that would destroy what competitive balance in the league there is, but what would happen is if the Lakers needed a player, it would simply buy what it needed with no worries.

Buffalo Super Fan
08-02-2010, 01:18 AM
Yes the economy isn't great Ken but that doesn't mean sports teams can't survive and do well. I would bring up my city of Buffalo as a example. For the D-League and sports fans that bring up the economy as a excuse yes it is a factor no doubt. But how do you explain Buffalo then that has had a shrinking economy for over 40 years one? And two has lost alot of jobs over the past 40 years but we keep on trucking.

We support well the Buffalo Bills NFL, Sabres NHL, Bisons IL, Bandits NLL and UB Bulls MAC football. How do you blame everything on the economy for a city if Buffalo continues to draw even through we are shrinking, aging and our economy has been bad so long I have to go back to childhood to remember when the Buffalo economy was good and I am 42 years old.

See part of it I think that Not So Fast is getting at Ken I don't want to put words in his mouth or speak for him. Is that the economy also can be psycological for people that have jobs that worry because of the news in the media I would suggest listen to it but also put it in proper prospective. Meaning in Buffalo our economy has been bad for 40 years and we hear so much on the news oh this company is leaving or that company is down sizing that we tend to ignore it and go about the day that in my opinion would be my advice for other cities outside of Buffalo to try and do like I said.

You can't in my opinion let the economy get to you so much with worring that you don't take time to enjoy yourself and get away from it once in a while. See that is one of the keys with Buffalo I really believe Buffalonians are so use to it because our economy has been bad so long that it is just like the Peanuts Cartoon when someone is on the phone blah blah! blah blah! from the news media and we then go about our day and enjoy ourselves making the best of it that is what I love about Buffalo.

Part of that enjoyment is sporting events attending games in my opinion. We do what makes us happy to get away from the doom and gloom talk and that is called sports the sandbox of life in my opinion. See that is the thing in my opinion you can't blame every teams failure in the past or present on the present economy. If that was the case Buffalo would have no teams and no fans which isn't the case we do very well in my opinion.

At the end of the day you either give the team a try if you like sports whatever league your in or you stay home watch it fail and say oh it is the economy or whatever you do in that city. The community plays a big part in this in my opinion are you going to come up with 100 excuses or are you going to go to the games.

Economy in my opinion seems to me to give a city a build in excuses if you can't explain why some big cities team is failing like the Jacksonville Jaguars NFL, Phoenix Coyotes NHL or Florida Panthers NHL. Oh it must be the economy that is it to wrap it up in a little box with a bow on top. How about that the city failed for a number of reason and at the end of the day the community didn't get behind the team. But even with that failing that doesn't mean someone shouldn't try again in a different time and place if a owner wants to it is his or her money to spend.

I never make excuses for Buffalo we failed with the Buffalo Stampede PBL and I take responsiblity for it as a city. But it doesn't mean with a different league and different time and situation that Buffalo might work in minor league basketball. If a team fails it fails for a number of reasons but it doesn't mean you don't pick yourself up and try again with another team in another league in my opinion.

I wish Rockford well if they get D-League but I am concerned with the city of Rockford failing so badly in MISL the Rockford Rampage MISL this year and the Rockford Ice Hogs AHL struggling that Ken might be right. To me Rockford doesn't seem like a good fit for D-League at this time. But who I to take away from a cities dreams so go for it Rockford. If Rockford wants D-League good for them. But I would suggest Rockford that you go to the games take the CBA and MISL experiences as learning experiences. Because minor league sports in what ever the sport or league needs gate support in my opinion that plays a big part along with merchandise sales etc. Let's Go Buffalo

wasteland
08-02-2010, 12:53 PM
I wish Rockford well if they get D-League but I am concerned with the city of Rockford failing so badly in MISL the Rockford Rampage MISL this year and the Rockford Ice Hogs AHL struggling that Ken might be right. To me Rockford doesn't seem like a good fit for D-League at this time. But who I to take away from a cities dreams so go for it Rockford. If Rockford wants D-League good for them. But I would suggest Rockford that you go to the games take the CBA and MISL experiences as learning experiences.

What are you basing your comment about the Icehogs on? They are in fact a very solid franchise.

And what are you basing your Rockford Lightening comment on? The franchise was active for 20 years before folding. Had the owner not died I'm pretty sure he would of been there till the end of the CBA. Show me how minor league teams outside of baseball stick around in one location for 20 years. You won't find many at all.

It is odd that the Rampage don't do better. Rockford has top flight soccer facilities and youth programs. My guess is the league usually runs games on sunday afternoons locally. But of course, now of the previous indoor soccer teams lasted very long.

Ken, Steelheads fan
08-02-2010, 04:34 PM
Buffalo Super Fan,
The rust belt in general had a shrinking economy in the past 40 years. It's not just Buffalo. The recession of 2008 was the worst since the Great Depression, so it is difficult to compare the past four decades with now. Also, the media isn't causing the economic problems. They simply report on it. Ironically, you mentioned teams in Arizona and Florida with severe problems. These are the very states with the nation's highest glut of housing inventory. A housing glut means the recovery has stalled until people start buying houses to reduce inventory. Problem is, so many jobs were lost that there aren't enough people to buy the homes. I'm a very positive type of person, but there are a lot of realities out there. I don't have the kind of vision to see the country avoiding a Double-dip recession (IMO). BTW, did you check out the attendance for the Brickyard 400? 140,000 fans announced. That's 60,000 LESS than last year.

...and you're only 42 years old. I thought you were much older. You're just a pup. 8)

wasteland
08-03-2010, 08:26 PM
Plus, the whole D-League/Rockford thing is a pipe-dream of Joe Stefani. I read the article (somewhere). He doesn't have any money. He's looking for investors.

Doesn't that already make he smater than many minor league start=ups, use other peoples money? If you don't already know, he has done this before on a smaller scale with the Rockford Forestors. He was able to get a number of people to invest, including Craig Drecktrah. Craig as you know is a former part owner of the Icehogs, current owner of the Chicago Hounds, bussinessman, and lottery winner. I assume Joe and Craig met when Joe was with the Chicago Shamrox. A long shot? Sure. But if he can secure some backers and a decent lease with the Metrocentre's new management company, who will be looking to book the place solid, you never know.

wasteland
08-04-2010, 09:00 PM
Well, I must admit, after listening to former Lightning Coach Daleo on WXRX radio this afternoon, I'm starting to become a believer in that not only could this happen, but it could suceed. According to coach, things are actually moving along with this. It was interesting how he pointed out that Corey Pearson is long gone from the mEtrocentre, something tells me he was hard to work with and just not that good at his job. With SMG coming in to handle management, I'm sure a workable lease and dates could be worked out. There's no reason why the Icehogs and a D-league couldn't co-exist. There are many weekend nights the arena sits empty while the team is in Texas, Milwaukee, Peoria, etc. With the Raptors looking like they'll never come back and the MISL team for sale, I'm sure SMG will be more then willing to get another tenant in the box. Things are actually changing in downtown Rockford, and for the better for a change. The next couple years could be exciting times.

Buffalo Super Fan
08-05-2010, 12:27 AM
Buffalo Super Fan,
The rust belt in general had a shrinking economy in the past 40 years. It's not just Buffalo. The recession of 2008 was the worst since the Great Depression, so it is difficult to compare the past four decades with now. Also, the media isn't causing the economic problems. They simply report on it. Ironically, you mentioned teams in Arizona and Florida with severe problems. These are the very states with the nation's highest glut of housing inventory. A housing glut means the recovery has stalled until people start buying houses to reduce inventory. Problem is, so many jobs were lost that there aren't enough people to buy the homes. I'm a very positive type of person, but there are a lot of realities out there. I don't have the kind of vision to see the country avoiding a Double-dip recession (IMO). BTW, did you check out the attendance for the Brickyard 400? 140,000 fans announced. That's 60,000 LESS than last year.

...and you're only 42 years old. I thought you were much older. You're just a pup. 8)

Thank you Ken no I am only 42 years old. But I am a super sports fan from the 1970's as a kid. I was always aware we had two major hockey, basketball leagues etc. Plus I was a huge fan of the old World Team Tennis and still follow it today with the new WTT. My grandmother use to call lines at West Side Tennis Club at Forest Hills for the US Open when it was held there in the 1970's she is 87 years old now soon to be 88 in the fall.

That is where I got my love of tennis and why I bring up WTT from time to time. Good league WTT today something that minor league basketball might want to model there league after because they have sponsors and survive with teams mostly intact year after year? I realize it is apples and oranges just thought I would mention. Let's Go Buffalo

Ken, Steelheads fan
08-05-2010, 07:54 PM
Funny you should mention World Team Tennis. The rec league version of WTT (not the pro version) is similar to today's minor league basketball (IMO).

Back in the 90's I played in a league that was supposed to morph into a WTT team or two, sort of like today's basketball free agent camps. We payed to play. Also, when it was time to get serious and compete against other towns, it became difficult to find people to travel...just like in minor league basketball. The WTT team folded before it ever got started, just like in minor league basketball. I checked-out the WTT rec league website. Northern Indiana no longer has a WTT rec league, just like...

CorA
08-05-2010, 08:49 PM
I think a team would do better at the Sears Centre. The MetroCentre and SC has had teams of the same sport before and the SC ones drew more.(ex. Chicago Storm/Rockford Rampage, Chicago Slaughter/Rock River Raptors) I don't know how the Icehogs drew when the old Hounds played, but we will see the difference in 2011 when there is an ECHL team at the Sears Centre. You may think the Storm folded while the Rampage are still alive, but the Storm started (in a regular arena) before the Rampage and it looks like the Rampage will fold or get sold.

Now I don't think the SC will want a team because they are strongly backing the ECHL team (to be named in the next few days) and want another try at a NLL team. I have links if you want them.

These are just my thoughts.

Ken, Steelheads fan
08-05-2010, 09:03 PM
Well, I must admit, after listening to former Lightning Coach Daleo on WXRX radio this afternoon, I'm starting to become a believer in that not only could this happen, but it could suceed. According to coach, things are actually moving along with this. It was interesting how he pointed out that Corey Pearson is long gone from the mEtrocentre, something tells me he was hard to work with and just not that good at his job. With SMG coming in to handle management, I'm sure a workable lease and dates could be worked out. There's no reason why the Icehogs and a D-league couldn't co-exist. There are many weekend nights the arena sits empty while the team is in Texas, Milwaukee, Peoria, etc. With the Raptors looking like they'll never come back and the MISL team for sale, I'm sure SMG will be more then willing to get another tenant in the box. Things are actually changing in downtown Rockford, and for the better for a change. The next couple years could be exciting times.

I remember when Coach Daleo also talked-up a possible return of the Rockford Lightning. I would have to see it to believe the D-League would have a chance in Rockford. I also can't see anyone wanting to alter the existing agreement with the Ice Hogs, especially after the success of their parent team (the Chicago Blackhawks). SMG is only a venue manager. The taxpayers still own the Ice Hogs.

wasteland
08-05-2010, 10:08 PM
I think a team would do better at the Sears Centre. The MetroCentre and SC has had teams of the same sport before and the SC ones drew more.(ex. Chicago Storm/Rockford Rampage, Chicago Slaughter/Rock River Raptors) I don't know how the Icehogs drew when the old Hounds played, but we will see the difference in 2011 when there is an ECHL team at the Sears Centre. You may think the Storm folded while the Rampage are still alive, but the Storm started (in a regular arena) before the Rampage and it looks like the Rampage will fold or get sold.

Now I don't think the SC will want a team because they are strongly backing the ECHL team (to be named in the next few days) and want another try at a NLL team. I have links if you want them.

These are just my thoughts.

I don't need any links, I've followed the Sears Center since day 1, and the fiasco it has become. Fact is, teams should draw more at the Sears Center since they have a population that dwarfs the rockford metro area, but they barely do if they do. I believe the hounds were lucky to pull in 1000 game and lets not forget the melted ice of opening night.

The Icehogs have been around 11 years, the Lightning were around 20 years. The Sears Centre has yet to show long term support for any tenant at this ( alot of teams have folded in a short amount of time)and would be a tough sell from that stand point.

wasteland
08-05-2010, 10:12 PM
I remember when Coach Daleo also talked-up a possible return of the Rockford Lightning. I would have to see it to believe the D-League would have a chance in Rockford. I also can't see anyone wanting to alter the existing agreement with the Ice Hogs, especially after the success of their parent team (the Chicago Blackhawks). SMG is only a venue manager. The taxpayers still own the Ice Hogs.

No one said anything about altering anything to do with the Icehogs. They have a 10 year deal with Chicago and I assume there would also be a 10 year deal with the arena. In the end it doesn't matter who owns the team, there are stil lots of nights, weekends included, open and new people with lots of experiance when it comes to making deals with tenants and bokking dates. SMG manages lot of arenas with multiple successful sports tenants.

Buffalo Super Fan
08-05-2010, 10:13 PM
I think a team would do better at the Sears Centre. The MetroCentre and SC has had teams of the same sport before and the SC ones drew more.(ex. Chicago Storm/Rockford Rampage, Chicago Slaughter/Rock River Raptors) I don't know how the Icehogs drew when the old Hounds played, but we will see the difference in 2011 when there is an ECHL team at the Sears Centre. You may think the Storm folded while the Rampage are still alive, but the Storm started (in a regular arena) before the Rampage and it looks like the Rampage will fold or get sold.

Now I don't think the SC will want a team because they are strongly backing the ECHL team (to be named in the next few days) and want another try at a NLL team. I have links if you want them.

These are just my thoughts.

CorA I wish Chicago well on them wanting NLL for the Sears Centre but as just a fan the follows the Buffalo Bandits NLL. I think the page has been turned with the NLL and the Sears Centre in my opinion. NLL I could see in the old Rosemont Horizen whatever Chicago calls it corporately today I think Allstate Arena because it has the size needed to host a NLL team in my opinion. In the Sears Centre just to small for the NLL and the NLL in my opinion shouldn't have gone to a arena that small to begin with.

The Buffalo Bandits NLL regular season average over 16,000 a game in 2010. I realize Buffalo is one of the exceptions to that rule in the NLL. But look at the NLL they just left Orlando with the Orlando Titans in one season. In my opinion as someone that has followed the old MILL that became the NLL for my 20th season this year in Buffalo with the Buffalo Bandits you need alot of gate. Also the NLL has sponsors and I don't see them making the same mistake twice meaning I feel the NLL in my opinion would want a different arena for a new Chicago NLL team. The potential NLL Chicago owner in my opinion will need deep pockets and a bigger building then the Sears Centre.

Because the NLL yes the players don't get paid alot but it isn't thought off like a D-League or a ECHL in my opinion. There are very few home games and you need to draw crowds 5,000 or 6,000 isn't going to cut it in my opinion. And the old Chicago Shamrox NLL were a failure at the gate at the Sears Centre in my opinion as a NLL league follower and Buffalo Bandits fan. Chicago in my opinion will get another chance in the NLL someday in my opinion because of Chicago's size and population but I don't think it will be at the Sears Centre maybe at the larger Allstate Arena. Let's Go Buffalo

Buffalo Super Fan
08-05-2010, 10:24 PM
What are you basing your comment about the Icehogs on? They are in fact a very solid franchise.

And what are you basing your Rockford Lightening comment on? The franchise was active for 20 years before folding. Had the owner not died I'm pretty sure he would of been there till the end of the CBA. Show me how minor league teams outside of baseball stick around in one location for 20 years. You won't find many at all.

It is odd that the Rampage don't do better. Rockford has top flight soccer facilities and youth programs. My guess is the league usually runs games on sunday afternoons locally. But of course, now of the previous indoor soccer teams lasted very long.

Sorry I didn't answer your question yesterday I was answering Ken and forget wasteland. I was basing my opinion on the Rockford Icehogs AHL on the problems they had with paying there PDC fee a few years back to the Chicago Blackhawks I read it was late or something and they had to have a special Rockford council meeting to come up with the money or something which they did.

My memory is foggy because I follow so much and read so much sports stuff it is memory overload sometimes maybe someone else knows what I think I read some where. Ken you know that area better then me? I am from Buffalo sorry for anything I miss posted about and again I am not someone that will hold any cities sports dreams back. Best of luck to Rockford in whatever sports teams they acquire. Let's Go Buffalo

CorA
08-06-2010, 12:33 PM
CorA I wish Chicago well on them wanting NLL for the Sears Centre but as just a fan the follows the Buffalo Bandits NLL. I think the page has been turned with the NLL and the Sears Centre in my opinion. NLL I could see in the old Rosemont Horizen whatever Chicago calls it corporately today I think Allstate Arena because it has the size needed to host a NLL team in my opinion. In the Sears Centre just to small for the NLL and the NLL in my opinion shouldn't have gone to a arena that small to begin with.

The Buffalo Bandits NLL regular season average over 16,000 a game in 2010. I realize Buffalo is one of the exceptions to that rule in the NLL. But look at the NLL they just left Orlando with the Orlando Titans in one season. In my opinion as someone that has followed the old MILL that became the NLL for my 20th season this year in Buffalo with the Buffalo Bandits you need alot of gate. Also the NLL has sponsors and I don't see them making the same mistake twice meaning I feel the NLL in my opinion would want a different arena for a new Chicago NLL team. The potential NLL Chicago owner in my opinion will need deep pockets and a bigger building then the Sears Centre.

Because the NLL yes the players don't get paid alot but it isn't thought off like a D-League or a ECHL in my opinion. There are very few home games and you need to draw crowds 5,000 or 6,000 isn't going to cut it in my opinion. And the old Chicago Shamrox NLL were a failure at the gate at the Sears Centre in my opinion as a NLL league follower and Buffalo Bandits fan. Chicago in my opinion will get another chance in the NLL someday in my opinion because of Chicago's size and population but I don't think it will be at the Sears Centre maybe at the larger Allstate Arena. Let's Go Buffalo
I agree, I always wondered why the Sears Centre was used instead of the Allstate Arena. I guess it was because the arena is new.

I don't need any links, I've followed the Sears Center since day 1, and the fiasco it has become. Fact is, teams should draw more at the Sears Center since they have a population that dwarfs the rockford metro area, but they barely do if they do. I believe the hounds were lucky to pull in 1000 game and lets not forget the melted ice of opening night.

The Icehogs have been around 11 years, the Lightning were around 20 years. The Sears Centre has yet to show long term support for any tenant at this ( alot of teams have folded in a short amount of time)and would be a tough sell from that stand point.
I believe the ice melted because the arena was not completely completed and there was not enough time? The Notre Dame hockey tournament seemed to do well and the ECHL team has over 15000 votes for the name the team contest. You are right about the Hounds attendance and their failures, but the new team has more than a year to prepare and get season tickets.

One reason the Sears Centre has not gotten long term support is because it is only 4-5 years old. It seems the Chicago Slaughter get good support for IFL standards as they averaged over 5000 a game. If the ECHL team gets good support, it would be easy to sell, considering the Sears Centre has had better success since it changed ownership.

I do not think a basketball team would succeed at the arena, though.

wasteland
08-06-2010, 12:53 PM
Sorry I didn't answer your question yesterday I was answering Ken and forget wasteland. I was basing my opinion on the Rockford Icehogs AHL on the problems they had with paying there PDC fee a few years back to the Chicago Blackhawks I read it was late or something and they had to have a special Rockford council meeting to come up with the money or something which they did.

My memory is foggy because I follow so much and read so much sports stuff it is memory overload sometimes maybe someone else knows what I think I read some where. Ken you know that area better then me? I am from Buffalo sorry for anything I miss posted about and again I am not someone that will hold any cities sports dreams back. Best of luck to Rockford in whatever sports teams they acquire. Let's Go Buffalo

Umm, I'm in the Rockford area, Ken is in Indiana.

The city paid any fees due to the Blackhawks because the city owns the team. There has never been any payment problems.

Buffalo Super Fan
08-07-2010, 01:04 AM
Umm, I'm in the Rockford area, Ken is in Indiana.

The city paid any fees due to the Blackhawks because the city owns the team. There has never been any payment problems.

Wasteland I knew Ken was from Indiana. My mistake on Rockford Ice Hogs AHL then but I thought there was some city meeting a few years back about coming up with fees owed the Chicago Blackhawks that were late a couple of years back. I guess my mistake then sorry about that wasteland I must be thinking of something else like I said I read alot of sports stories I sometimes mix stories up due to human error. Let's Go Buffalo

JAKMAN
08-13-2010, 04:57 PM
I've lived around Chicagoland most of my life and went to school an hour outside of Rockford for a time, so I think I can say this with some credibility:

Until the employment sitch in Rockford improves (if it ever does; it's the worst in the state), starting a D-League team would basically be the same as burning a huge bag of money, except the team would take more time, stress, and work and less gasoline to use.

The Lightning tried. They really did. They had a good, long run, but it just didn't make money sense to keep it going.

At least this guy is shooting for the D-League and not an ABA team.

Ken, Steelheads fan
08-14-2010, 12:48 AM
I couldn't have put it better...and for what it's worth, the D-League wouldn't work in Gary either. No way, no how.

Ken, Steelheads fan
11-11-2010, 02:39 PM
WIFR out of Rockford reported tonight that Joe Stefani, President and majority owner of the Rockford Foresters is in prelim talks with the Metrocentre about bringing a D-league team to the arena. He says he is looking for additional investors and a fair lease from the arena. He hopes to make a decision in the next 60-90 days with a possible start in time for 2011-2012 season. Stefani noted in a brief on camerea interview that because the NBA picks up salaries and workmans comp it makes the most sense
fianicially to go to the D-league.

A basketball team hasn't called the metrocentre home since the Rockford Lightning of the CBA folded in 2006.

WHile it would be great to get a d=league team, I don't see it being a major draw. The Lightning lost money year after year and stuck around for so long because of a great owner, the late Wayne Tempe. Hey, it would be great to get Daleo back on the sidelines and off the ball diamond as well. Right NSF?

It's been 60-90 days and no word from Joe Stefani...wait! There was word on October 17th.
http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2010/10/joliet-could-seek-new-team-for-stadium.html
The city has received inquiries from four groups looking to bring a new team to Joliet, Thanas said. Among them is Joe Stefani, president and majority owner of the Rockford Foresters, an amateur team that started this summer.

...

"I personally think that independent baseball is not going to work," said Stefani, a former public relations director for the Chicago Shamrocks, an ice hockey team. "It doesn't make money. (Teams) almost always lose money."

Baseball in Joliet?!? I thought the world was waiting for an announcement from Stefani on a D-League team for Rockford.

This is just another self-promoting person searching for the spotlight with sparse spending money. Just another person "looking for investors" and finding none.

nksports
11-12-2010, 12:44 AM
Just another person "looking for investors" and finding none.

I'm not sure the NBA would take someone like that very seriously.

wasteland
11-19-2010, 12:58 PM
Sure guys. :)

He does have investors, one notable person involved with the Forestors is Craig Drecktrah. Also if this ABA franchise fails like the previous PBL franchise did, you won't be able to get much local invested into it anyways. Anyone wanting to do pro ball in Rockford needs to get Chris Daleo involved in some form

From what I've been told, the new metrocentre management group is more interested in putting an arena/indoor football team back in there for the spring dates (the gm has been quoted as saying he is a huge fan of the game), then having another winter tenant at this point. Can't say I blame them. There's a lot of stuff in the works for the downtown Rockford and surroundings areas, including a new university, amtrack service, and a gambling license, I'd say that anyone looking to put a d-league team there will have a wait and see what happens approach to it.

Ken, Steelheads fan
11-19-2010, 05:32 PM
Isn't that what I've been saying all along? The MetroCentre isn't going to work against the IceHogs, a team that they own. The city of Rockford has shown no interest in sharing prime dates with the IceHogs since before they took over ownership.

I don't think the ABA has anything to do with it. The ABA gets too much credit. Joe was just dreaming.

wasteland
11-19-2010, 09:00 PM
Umm, ok.

Like I said before, plenty of "prime" dates remain. Heck there hasn't been a home Icehogs weekend game the last 2 weeks. The Metro board authority would love to have those dates filled.

And you totally missed the point about the ABA, don't matter what league takes the floor next season, people will be watching, and if it fails bad, it'll raise eyebrows.

Buffalo Super Fan
11-23-2010, 07:15 PM
Isn't that what I've been saying all along? The MetroCentre isn't going to work against the IceHogs, a team that they own. The city of Rockford has shown no interest in sharing prime dates with the IceHogs since before they took over ownership.

I don't think the ABA has anything to do with it. The ABA gets too much credit. Joe was just dreaming.

But Ken up until this year the Rockford Rampage MISL I think played in the MetroCentre in Rockford. They failed and are in the process of being potentially sold but just saying the city of Rockford was willing to work with other sports leagues other then the Rockford IceHogs AHL.

I know nothing much about the market of Rockford or the potential D-League owners for Rockford. All I am saying I understand by the looks yes Ken your right the city of Rockford would want the IceHogs to succeed and to protect that asset but MISL was able to get a lease at the MetroCentre in the past. Rockford is not like dealing with my city of Buffalo's HSBC Arena where it is a major league arena and cost $29,000 a night to rent playing hard to get for no reason in my opinion but that is just my opinion.

I get that figure from a Buffalo News Sports Article about two weeks ago in the sports section talking about why Canisius and St. Bonaventure basketball game isn't as big anymore as it used to be in Buffalo and why they don't played at HSBC Arena anymore. If a owner can get a cheap rent deal anything is possible in Rockford or any city for that matter.

I don't believe it is just a owner or a potential city you might have both but if the arena is to costly to rent then the deal doesn't get done. No offense to Rockford intended but the city of Rockford I wouldn't think would turn away a co tennent for the MetroCentre and you can't be talking alot of money a night for rent for a AHL arena at the MetroCentre in my opinion.

If Buffalo is a secondary rock concert market today I can only imagine what Rockford is proable down lower then that. And there not knocking on the door for Buffalo's HSBC Arena much $29,000 a night would do that to turn potential investors and promoters off in Buffalo just saying. Let's Go Buffalo

wasteland
11-29-2010, 12:47 PM
The MISL team only played the last couple years, before that they played at the Indoor Sports Center, on the city's east side next to Road Ranger stadium and the Victory Sports Complex, which I believe is no more. I think the move to the metrocentre was a little too ambitious at the time as they never advertised.

And yes, with our location from Milwaukee and Chicago, we are a secondary concert market.

DFWCC
05-24-2011, 02:11 PM
Erie in 3rd yr of D league. Storted middle of recession 2007.
1st yr ave @ 2500 unemp near 10%
2nd yr ave @ 2950 " near 9.2%
3rd yr ave @ 3500 " near 9%
Currently unemp @ 7.2%
So I expect att will drop. Not really but 3500 works nice. They have a top class org and put out a quality product.

2yrs ago SpringField Mass came on board and sit @ 23-2400.
Also Portland Maine in 2nd yr sells out at 3200 everygame.

New xfr team to Frico Tx (No Dallas burb) ave about 3100.

ABQ New Mx seems to be a troubled team att wise with ave of
between 1200 and 1700. I don't recall the numbers.

Ken, Steelheads fan
05-27-2011, 04:20 PM
I've lived around Chicagoland most of my life and went to school an hour outside of Rockford for a time, so I think I can say this with some credibility:

Until the employment sitch in Rockford improves (if it ever does; it's the worst in the state), starting a D-League team would basically be the same as burning a huge bag of money, except the team would take more time, stress, and work and less gasoline to use.

The Lightning tried. They really did. They had a good, long run, but it just didn't make money sense to keep it going.

At least this guy is shooting for the D-League and not an ABA team.

The news out of Rockford isn't getting any better.

Illinois city among nationís most dangerous (http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_localchi/20110526/ts_yblog_localchi/illinois-city-among-nations-most-dangerous?bouchon=602,il)


Rockford has unusually high violent crime rates for a city of its size. Most notably, the city has the fourth highest rate of aggravated assault in the country, with 10.5 cases for every 1,000 citizens in 2010. During the same period, 20 murders occurred, almost double the number in 2000.

Rockford is like Gary, Indiana in many ways. Maybe the city can realistically attract an IBL franchise.

wasteland
05-28-2011, 09:37 PM
and despite all that, the IceHogs set a home attendance record. Go figure.

preeths
05-29-2011, 08:26 AM
People look for entertainment even in a down economy. More will look for value, and that's what the minors give.

DFWCC
06-08-2011, 05:34 PM
Ain't gonna happen. Alq New Mex franchise expected to move to Youngstown Ohio as a Cavs affiliate.
The only other possible is Reno and I don't think they're ready for a move.

wasteland
06-09-2011, 12:25 PM
Whats not going to happen? A team in Rockford? We already know that, you need an ownership group of some kind to buy and relocate the team, that group doesn't currently exist.