Greenville Debacle

[Rooster]

Was anyone in attendance in Lafayette for the Greenville game Monday? Would be curious to know how many "fans" showed up.

Would be even more curious to see how many Wildcatters season ticket holders demand a refund for witnessing two slightly better than weekend warrior flag football squads taking the field for the last two home games.

At least the Greenville Twitter feed summed it up: long and lonely road home since none of the players will make the trip.

[buckywhodat]

There were 4000-5000 fans in the stands . They werent "fans'" . They were FANS. They enjoyed the game naturally because the home team won big. I heard of no fans asking for refunds.
If you think they were slightly better than weekend warrior flag football squads, I challenge you to suit up and either stand in the pocket, or cover a deep route against them. These were real football players. They may not have been the best or most organized, but all are real football players. And everyone player on these two teams gave 100% to and for a game they love.

I understand there were some Greenville players, though I couldnt tell you how many. The bottom line was " The show must go on". I have read all the stories and blurbs about how bad the Greenville situation is. If all is true, Its not good for anyone, Players, teams, and league.
I guess some people would rather just everyone fold up the tents and go home. There are serious problems with some teams and the league, but I doubt the league is attempting to sweep it under a rug. Most everyone involved is trying to do their best to keep things going, because they are not using FAILURE as an option.
There are hundreds , maybe thousands of people directly affected by the games that are played. The" Big Dogs" , The owners and the League will not profit from this years problems. They hopefully will learn. The" Little dogs", vendors, players, FANS, and others will profit, some monetarily, some entertainment wise.
Society today wants everything NOW and wants it perfect NOW.
Lets fix what we can, and move on.

[mace]

There were 4000-5000 fans in the stands . They werent "fans'" . They were FANS. They enjoyed the game naturally because the home team won big. I heard of no fans asking for refunds.
If you think they were slightly better than weekend warrior flag football squads, I challenge you to suit up and either stand in the pocket, or cover a deep route against them. These were real football players. They may not have been the best or most organized, but all are real football players. And everyone player on these two teams gave 100% to and for a game they love.

I understand there were some Greenville players, though I couldnt tell you how many. The bottom line was " The show must go on". I have read all the stories and blurbs about how bad the Greenville situation is. If all is true, Its not good for anyone, Players, teams, and league.
I guess some people would rather just everyone fold up the tents and go home. There are serious problems with some teams and the league, but I doubt the league is attempting to sweep it under a rug. Most everyone involved is trying to do their best to keep things going, because they are not using FAILURE as an option.
There are hundreds , maybe thousands of people directly affected by the games that are played. The" Big Dogs" , The owners and the League will not profit from this years problems. They hopefully will learn. The" Little dogs", vendors, players, FANS, and others will profit, some monetarily, some entertainment wise.
Society today wants everything NOW and wants it perfect NOW.
Lets fix what we can, and move on.


Bucky, I couldn't agree with you more! I was there and watched the game, there were some athletes on the field that was wearing Greenville jerseys, and I mean athletes too. So, the best thing is to just stop thriving on the negative and hope that the players are doing what they need, to rectify the situation.

[Hands10]

With all the negativity on here, no matter if TW is out, arena football in Greenville is history!!! To much he said she said!!!! Let the front office and the authority's handle all the bs and the players play football. From what I understand there were only 600-700 attending the games anyway, no sport will make it with that kind of attendance, hell high school games get alot more than that, and some rec leagues! From some of the things i've read on here, do you think a fan that has some interest in coming to a game will go after reading all this bashing? my kids liked it alot better than baseball. I hate to see it fold.

[OneLove]

both of you have know idea what you are talking about...The team that played for the FORCE last night was SORRY as hell.The REAL FORCE TEAM BEAT THE HELL OUT OF THEM THE 1ST GAME....MACE YOU STILL HAVE YOUR HEAD IN YOUR A$%....Fact is the SIFL has let TONY WELLS go without paying his players..the guys are having a hard time feeding there kids because of this MOTHER...So glad you two are happy but you are not the ones that this MOTHER needs to pay over 700 too..oh yea MACE the REAL FORCE beat your team too..you did not pay the real FORCE the 2nd time..

TONY WELLS SHOW YOUR FACE

[preeths]

OneLove, knock it off. Cut the attacks against other posters. You do not have to agree with them. You must obey the board rules if you're going to post here.

[mace]

both of you have know idea what you are talking about...The team that played for the FORCE last night was SORRY as hell.The REAL FORCE TEAM BEAT THE HELL OUT OF THEM THE 1ST GAME....MACE YOU STILL HAVE YOUR HEAD IN YOUR A$%....Fact is the SIFL has let TONY WELLS go without paying his players..the guys are having a hard time feeding there kids because of this MOTHER...So glad you two are happy but you are not the ones that this MOTHER needs to pay over 700 too..oh yea MACE the REAL FORCE beat your team too..you did not pay the real FORCE the 2nd time..

TONY WELLS SHOW YOUR FACE

Well that shows your ignorance, because I spoke to Andrew Webb after the game and he said that the Swashbucklers played them totally different at home. And there was one player that didn't make the trip to Lake Charles from Greenville... some defensive player, so there goes your theory. The only one with their head in the ground is you. You might be the most asinine person that I have ever seen on this board. What Wells owes the players is between him and the players, the league isn't even getting their money either. So they are letting him slide in hopes that he will pay the players. You don't have a Eff'in clue as to what is going on... you know the "assistant coaches" that supposedly got walked out? The Director Of Operations said that the coaches that Greenville brought, have been with them all year... WoW, if thats the case... you must have had 5 coaches? Dude, get to know someone before you start talking out of your butt. I know players, coaches, owners, and league officials... So I have an educated guess as to whats happening, not something that I dreamed up. And besides, if any of these guys are depending on the 150 bucks that they get paid a game to "raise their kids" they are worse off than you are.

Have fun flipping burgers

[never was]

MACE - not to get into the middle here, but...Andrew Webb was not at the game on Monday night - remember, he was hurt then released. If I am misunderstanding you, sorry. The real Andrew Webb is no longer on the team - now, was there a jersey with Webb on the back - probably so - but not Andrew.

Actually, there are 10 coaches listed on the roster - so there are some no longer with the team (not defending anyone by any means). None of them have been paid.

And I agree - we can all post and share ideas (and even contradicting ones), but we can all be adults as well. My sermon for the day!!

just sayin...

[mace]

Wasnt talking about the game last night, I was talking about the game when Greenville and Webb came to Lake Charles. So, I agree that there are alot of coaches, but last night, Greenville had 2 other coaches that had been with them, and Wells was there. I personally didn't talk to him because I don't approve, but I don't like it when some a$$ is telling me that I am in bed with the crook... I am very disappointed by the way this has transpired, but to endlessly beat this dead horse week in and week out, isn't productive.


And thats my .02!

[ggbest777]

MACE....my apologies. Your post reads like you spoke to him last night.

The whole thing is BS...there are players that have not been paid and they have kids to support. It will get bigger than this, trust me.

[never was]

Yeah MACE - the reality is that there was only one or two actually Force players that made the trip from Greenville - the rest were picked up along the way (seriously) and played in jerseys with wrong names (must have been a stat nightmare), so the statement about only two not making the trip is not entirely correct.

Add my penny to the jar!

just sayin...

[mace]

I must have not been clear guys, and for that I apologize. 3 Greenville coaches (wells included) and 5 Greenville players, the rest were "replacement" players. I know this because I help with the equipment, because Wells didn't even bring all of his own gear, so I know. It is sad and I feel for the players, but thats why they have labor laws in EVERY state.

[axel fuley]

Mace you full of (S) for your information the sifl is responsible for everything that happen to the player and the staff in Greenville. Yes you can live on $150 but is something !the matter fact that they not getting anything , are you working for free ? I don't think so
You just don't know so shut your mouth and go flip burger if that what you want to do !

[OneLove]

MACE you are right he was at that game..but the week that we played at your place, the team did not even know they were going to play because Tony Wells told them he was going to fold the team..so they did not practice all week...the team has only practice 3 or 4 time over the past 8 weeks..I dont care how good you are you will not win if you dont practice..The SIFL is wrong just as much as TONY WELLS and I am going to keep saying this until Wells pays

Show your FACE Wells

[never was]

Not that is not very mature - MACE (not taking up for you) doesn't deserve all of that for giving his opinion. I have tried to leave emotion out of the discussion, and hope that others will take a breath and respond differntly - I can only hope!!!

just sayin...

PS - please don't say anything bad to me - I am very sensitive!!

[mace]

Yeah well thats what you get when you deal with people like Axel. The information that I have provided was FACT, because I was there and SAW what I SAW. Now as far as the game when they came to us, I don't know about that. All I know is that there were some athletes that were there playing and I hate to see that they are in this position, but they need to get the law involved with Tony Wells if they have a grievance. But again, I am sure that I am wrong in the eyes of Axel.... I bet you think that Obama is doing a great job too, don't you!

Hey Axel, hold the mayo and tomatoes for me!

[ggbest777]

mace...you have people on the inside on this board. We know what we are talking about. This is all true!!

The SIFL has done nothing to help,,,,,,well, they turned their heads
But, the bad press has TW and the SIFL name tied together as one...remember, you run with a dog with fleas...you get fleas!

But, TW will get his real soon!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ggbest777]

MACE....post the roster from the G-Force last night.....PLEASE!!!

[mace]

GGBest, I am with you and I hope that he does. All I am saying is that to continuously beat this dead horse is destructive is all I am saying. They have obviously made a decision on how they were going to handle this, I don't know what their plan is, if any. But I agree with you guys, its not good right now. And the fact that Axel is a raging ANUS really makes the entire situation that much more volatile.


Oh year Axel... I forgot, hold the onions too!

[mace]

MACE....post the roster from the G-Force last night.....PLEASE!!!

Actually GGBest, I wanted to see the roster from last night also... I couldn't find one, but I am sure that the SIFL has one somewhere. Maybe Sportznut will chime in with in.

[OneLove]

PLAYERS will be on the NEWS tonight to tell all of GREENVILLE WHAT IS GOING ON

Wells its time to show your FACE

[mace]

PLAYERS will be on the NEWS tonight to tell all of GREENVILLE WHAT IS GOING ON

Wells its time to show your FACE

Onelove, This is the kind of thing that they should have done WAY BEFORE NOW, but I am glad that they are taking the chance to do it. They obviously want to make a statement, and the news is the way to make it happen.

[ggbest777]

Mace...as far as Axel goes( do not know him)....sound like Wells S**T on him. The guy has a right to be pissed and to say what he feels.
Just think if someone owed you $700.....bet you would be pissed too.

[mace]

Mace...as far as Axel goes( do not know him)....sound like Wells S**T on him. The guy has a right to be pissed and to say what he feels.
Just think if someone owed you $700.....bet you would be pissed too.

Sure, but words on a message board wouldn't be my resolve, nor would I be trying to attack someone that I couldn't put my hands on either. But, I guess thats the difference in men. I don't hate him for it.... just think that he went about it the wrong way.

[ggbest777]

I would like to see the roster, but if the SIFL has it, well it has probably made its way to one of those "back room dealings".......you know changed!

[dagr8_1_4ever]

Since the Greenville Force had NO transactions on the league website for this week it should have been the same roster as last week but we know that isn't true. Who would be responsible for making sure the roster is accurate? Wouldn't that be a league job since it is the league website?

[mace]

Yeah its turned into the league by the team and the league posts it up on the website, not real sure who is responsible for that particular job.

[ggbest777]

dags...the league has not done thier jobs for weeks

Very weak Admin! They have been PUNKED by WELLS!

[ggbest777]

dags...the league has not done their jobs for weeks

Very weak Admin! They have been PUNKED by WELLS!

[axel fuley]

Hey mace I got the tomato and I will flip burger for all the greenville force player when Tony wells get in jail if u want to help me -:)

[thedarkknight]

Yeah its turned into the league by the team and the league posts it up on the website, not real sure who is responsible for that particular job.

Actually, if you pay close attention it may not be posted on the league site but the names of those who played for Greenville on Monday night are listed in the stats

Link
(http://www.thestatguys.com/SIFL/2010/LAF0524.HTM)

Greenville mostly consisted of a bunch of former players for both the Bucs and Wildcatters.

[bigforcefan]

some of you on here are just running you gaps. The players for the force have been sh-- on. Some of these men are tryin to take it to a higher level of play, but at the same time 150.00 is still alot of money to these men. These men are still trying to provide for the kids and familys. Do not knock on these guys for wanting a 150.00 By the way 150 x serval games does add up. So you guys need to shut your pie hole . Fox news is going to dostory on this. Tune in.

[ggbest777]

Wells just told a lie on national tv!! I heard it !!

[ggbest777]

He said he was making up past payments......BS!!!
Every time he opens his mouth, nothing comes out but lie after lie!!!

Story was covered by Fox Carolina News

[sportznut]

Guys, I have the rosters. IF you noticed, Lafayette didn't have any transactions either... Why, because we had a game i was at on Saturday, worked Sunday, worked Monday and traveled to a game in Lafayette. worked today.... It will be up.... Just a hint, Go to the Stats page on the SIFL Site, wait let me do that work for you...http://www.southernifl.com/index.php?option=com_wrapper&view=wrapper&Itemid=39 , now you can see the roster, if you can not wait for me to get get it up.

FYI, I personally have Signed contracts for EVERY player that was playing for the Force Monday. Were they players that have been there all season. Some. But players chose not to make the trip, their choice and were replaced. That is each individual teams decision. The players that played, are getting paid. I gave my number to the players that asked for it, in case they had any questions or issues.

As far as the league not doing anything. Seriously.... come on..... Its not like we are going to post on a "Message Board" the actions that are being taken on this situation. There are certain things that legally, have to take place. When it does, still do not think you will see it on a "Message Board" what is actually taking place.

Another FYI, I have yet to receive my FIRST call or complaint from a Player in Greenville. just saying

To the players and fans in Greenville, i know you have been more then patient. I ask you to be patient a little longer.

Thank you

[bigforcefan]

just saw the news and Wells tells news media lies. go to Fox Carolina.com to see this mother f----- in action. what a joke. hope they talk with the sifl next so they can show everyone that they are crooks as well.

[bigforcefan]

Robert, I myself called you and left a message with your office staff. GGbest777 also contacted you. You are not telling the truth now. get all facts and post as well.

[robster2001]

As far as the league not doing anything. Seriously.... come on..... Its not like we are going to post on a "Message Board" the actions that are being taken on this situation.

That's fair.

Hypothetically, though... is it considered OK by the SIFL for a team to basically "release" its entire roster and sign an entire new one, which would appear to be what the Force did for this game? Or is that considered a team issue that the league has no particular interest in?

I would think it would be in the league's best interest for a team to remain basically intact -- otherwise, you're asking us to root for helmets and jerseys rather than people, aren't you?

[ggbest777]

Robert you are not telling the truth!
I called the office myself and I know a player called you and you said you hated what they were going through...
The players left after Tony Wells told them they would not be paid again!

Robert, do you work for free? The players are tired of this s**T....and now it has hit the fan.

[sportznut]

I have NOT talked to a PLAYER about this! This is a fact!

I have absolutely no reason not to tell the truth. I have received 1 call, from a parent who ASKED me he did not want to be named cause he wanted to protect his son. I have done as he asked! Other then that and 2 fans. I have not heard from a player.

I did not have to come on here, address anything, but i did. I am not skirting the issues. Never have. I will say there are some thing i seriously can not talk about.

I am not a crook, I gain NOTHING from this situation. PERIOD! Absolutely NOTHING!

[OneLove]

Robert..You are not telling the truth..you just went in the same Boat as Wells..You told a player you hated what was happing to them..THE SIFL IS THE BIGGEST JOKE!!!! Wells was back to the lies on the news.."saying that he told the players up front they had money problem"... he told them thats one thing they had was money...

SHOW YOUR FACE TONY

[ggbest777]

Robert, Bottom line you were well aware of the situation. And, nothing has been done. But, now the SIFL is on the national tv stage with WELLS.

You all are in the bed with WELLS...you should have run a background check on this criminal.

It has taken almost one moth to get the league office to do a thing...you were warned. Now, it is all over the news in SC

[bigforcefan]

WSPA news at 11 oclock just had a great story on all the bs. Wells owes BILO center 50,000 in pay and and money to all players. Wells lies on camera. see story at WSPA.com

[ggbest777]

Wells is a LIE period!
He told the following( on camera), which was lie after lie.

1. He said he needed to pay for two games. What! Did he forget the games they players were not given a check at all.
2. He said he told the players from the start that he did not have money to pay them.

Channel 7 also reported that the Bi-Lo Center is about to repo the turf due to the fact that he owes them 50 G's.
Plus a former employee showed her bad checks on camera and she is out 7 G's.

Then TW goes on to say that the players are in breach of contract for not playing this past weekend. This guy is the biggest dumas! And, this is what is representing the SIFL and the G-Force on TV.

We told you the day would come and this is just the beginning....people are ready to get in line and show what Wells is all about.

[ggbest777]

http://www2.wspa.com/news/2010/may/25/greenville-indoor-football-team-faces-financial-pr-ar-222622/

[ggbest777]

Greenville Force Players Say They're Not Getting Paid
Players Said They're Not Getting Played

POSTED: 11:07 pm EDT May 25, 2010

facebookdel.icio.usbuzzdiggreddit›› Email›› PrintGREENVILLE, S.C. -- Some Greenville Force football players said they aren't getting paid.

"Basically I've been up here for 12 weeks and all I can really say I can account for is $250," said Isaac West, a player with the Force.

He said he jumped at the opportunity to play football again in Greenville, but said things haven't turned out the way he thought they would.

"There are times when I cant even put gas in my car. I can't even go to the store and buy me something to eat and get some food, but we're supposed to be getting paid every week," he said.

West said he's getting played and those who manage the Force aren't keeping up their end of the contract. He said he's owed for four games.

"The promises that were made to us, they haven't come through on," said Willie Idlette, a Greenville Force player too. "We signed a contract and everything is laid out. The pay, the compensation, the hours. Everything we thought would be needed to run a professional organization."

He said not only does it hurt the team, it also hurts the fans.

"We all love playing football and we appreciate everyone who comes out and supports us," he said.

However, on Tuesday, Tony Wells, the head coach and owner said that's not the case. He said he inherited the team, already in financial trouble back in December and admits he's behind on a couple of checks because an investor backed out on a deal.ANOTHER LIE..... HE DID NOT EVEN PAY THE PLAYERS FOR A FEW WEEKS! THE TWO CHECKS HE IS TALKING ABOUT ARE THE CHECKS THAT BOUNCED!

"I told all the players straight out you know things aren't going to happen that way, it's going to be a struggle this year. They all agreed to play on," he said.AGAIN, ANOTHER LIE!!!

He said players get paid for each game they play, not how long they've been in the area. He also admits early on, some checks bounced, but he said he's been trying to catch up.

"We've paid them two checks in a row, a third check was going to be this week and we were catching up on some previous checks also," Wells said.
WRONG, THIS IS WHT HE ONLY HAD 3 OR 4 PLAYERS GO TO THE GAME...HE DID NOT PAY, AGAIN!!!

He said several players accept for five, decided not to play in Monday's game in Louisiana and he had to find a replacement team. He said this put the team in jeopardy and they could've received a fine.

[CoachSMB05]

Come on Rob, you know your not winning this arguement. These guys arent worried about legal issues, or law suits, financial league stability or team stability. They are worried about their game checks, which is why the play. Your the one that has to worry about everything else

[preeths]

A warning to everyone: if you can't express your opinions without attacking others or using disguised profanity, you will not post on this board. You can be upset, but you need to express yourself here in a PG way.

[ggbest777]

Coach....FYi...........

Players have hired lawyers to represent them. It was reported last night on the news and I know it for a fact....so, they are worried about their game checks and much more.

[dagr8_1_4ever]

Here is Well's comments from March 1st about the teams stable financial situation. He told the players his famous uncle and investor was none other than Judge Mathis.

http://www.gsabusiness.com/news/33109-pucks-and-pigskins?rss=0

[bigforcefan]

Great post. Evreyone should read this. Last night on the news Wells claimed he to the team on as if were in the hole. If you read this you will read were he said they had money that could take care of the team for 3 years. Tony should of said he will be able to take all the money in 3 weeks or less. read this it has great info.

[King Of The Jungle]

Robert, I myself called you and left a message with your office staff. GGbest777 also contacted you. You are not telling the truth now. get all facts and post as well.
So BigforceFan and GG Best...are you Force players? What Robert said was not a single force PLAYER had called. He didn't say anything about fans. Which are you?

[King Of The Jungle]

Robert..You are not telling the truth..you just went in the same Boat as Wells..You told a player you hated what was happing to them..THE SIFL IS THE BIGGEST JOKE!!!! Wells was back to the lies on the news.."saying that he told the players up front they had money problem"... he told them thats one thing they had was money...

SHOW YOUR FACE TONY
OneLove, you are beiing pretty liberal with the term "liar". You are saying a player TOLD you he called. You didn't hear or see him do it. So, what you are saying is hear say and you need more than that before call a man a liar.

[King Of The Jungle]

OK, I got to this discussion late and I am hearing a lot of frustration on all parts. I am not trying to sound like Pollyanna here (for you young guys she was Shirley Temple character that was always looking on the bright side) Oh yeah (Shirley Temple was a child actress). Anyway, Greenville is in a mess. Everyone is aware of it and pretty pissed off about the whole deal including the league I am sure. I know I am. But, The league isn't responsible for any one particular team. They have to see after the welfare of multiple teams and they can't get too involved in any one particular town. If TW let's all his players go, that is a coach's decision just like the one LA made when they came to Columbus without a kicker and O-linemen. Sometimes coaches made stupid moves and I don't want a league that makes coaching decisions or gets involved in coach's decisions.
As for the missed checks, I don't believe the league is responsible for making those checks up. The players dealt with TW and TW should be the one that pays the price either in cash or in jail time if he is found guilty.
I do believe there is a time when the league should step in because of lack of control and I also believe that time is now or at least very close. When that happens then the league must fit the bill for players pay after a take over but, they don't have the responsibility to pay for games not under league control in my opinion. They do however have the responsibility to see that Greenville plays the rest of its games because of the impact not playing would have on the league and on the rest of the teams in the league. One of the main reasons for being in a league is to insure opponents (hopefully, quality opponents).
The league in my opinion does bear the responsibility for letting Greenville play at all and they are paying a heavy price for the mistake. They also made a mistake by trusting Texas for a second time. While the decision may have been wrong it was done with good intentions and you know how wrong good intentions can go. For all we know TW had good intentions too. But, this is a strong league with good talent and there have been many excellent games this season. And, when the league finishes with 4 STRONG teams it will be poised to pick up several strong teams next year so the league should prosper.
I just caution everyone about blaming the world for an unfixable situation brought on in my opinion by one person acting in good faith. It appears he fooled the players, the media the fans and the league. He is good in front of the camera and in a one on one situation. I have met the man several times and have never had any indication that he was anything lest than honest (Now, I have indications to the contrary).
I try and look at things from a league standpoint. Why would Tom Hagar want to sabotage his own league? He wouldn't. Why would Robert come on here to get way laid? He wouldn't. I think he is showing balls by coming on and trying to say what he can to calm this down. But, the bottom line is, the league is not the enemy this time, and they are doing what they can with hand they have been dealt and Greenville has to finish the season or else we are all in a mess.
I love this sport and this board is fun and informative but, we need to step back from the mob mentality and think of who benefits from all of this and so far I can only come up with one name TW. Like they say on CSI follow the money and you will find the guilty.
GO LIONS!

[ggbest777]

Greenville has to finish the season or else we are all in a mess. PER KING

King, nice post by the way.
Now, let's look at the statement you wrote. First, if you had time, on the news blurb it reported that the BI-Lo Center is claiming they need to be paid $50,000
or they will take up the turf. If the players can not get their money then how in the heck is he going to pay 50 large?? From what I understand , they will not be able to play a home game...that remains to be seen.

As far as I go...let's just say I am very close to the situation. Robert is a good man, but i still say he was well aware of what was going on in Greenville. I'm not saying it is his problem, but it should have never come to this.
I also know for fact that the league was told about this situation from inside the Greenville organization. Watch the video of the lady holding bad checks and she was in accounting.
She was smart and got out of dodge before she was included in the crew that is headed for jail time. You do not mess with the Department of Labor and that is a FACT!

[OneLove]

King...I know for a fact what robert said..Hint hint

[bigforcefan]

My man KING, as I have said in some post before I may be a player and I may not. Some of us on here are and are not. Good job last night force player for calling Tony Wells out! Some of us on here know what we are talking about. WELLS WILL PAY OR GO TO JAIL. I my self would love to see him in a orange jump suit and flip flops.

[CoachSMB05]

They are players King, without another outlet to voice their aggrevation. It is much warrented too I might ad. why do you think they come on here and repeat themselves. Look at their name and number, its not hard to figure out whos who. Unfortunately I think one of them is one of the best wide outs I have seen in 5 years, it sucks that all I will remember him by are posts in this board.

[ggbest777]

Not to mention that the guy that was up on the SIFL site for Def. Player of the year thru the first part of the season is not playing for the G-Force any longer.

[King Of The Jungle]

GGB, I know who you are now and I feel for you. And, my guess is you are talking about Ravenell...what a waste for him not to be playing. And 1Love, I know you too now (Damn, I am thick!). Did either of you play in the last game?

[never was]

Not to mention that the guy that was up on the SIFL site for Def. Player of the year thru the first part of the season is not playing for the G-Force any longer.

As well as the QB who was the player of the week for the first two weeks of the season, Andrew Webb.

just sayin...

[never was]

How many lies can you find in this news clip - I lost count! Check out the history of fraud, bad checks, etc. in Washington state.

http://www.foxcarolina.com/video/23696470/index.html

And Hager supports TW? That says a lot about both of them. I guess that is what you see when looking up through a pile of sand!

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig!!

just sayin...

[bigforcefan]

As a player you would think the sifl would help , but as you have seen on here and seen on the news clip, no so.. The sifl, ect. are all just as guilty as Wells. They all lie, they say they have not talked to any of us on the team = lie. They make statements on the news that are lies, this whole leage is a joke. Someone put on here early on that the sifl was there for the players NOT SO my friend. As I have said before WELLS WILL PAY or he can go to jail. I hope he goes to jail myself, his day is comming. Look at how this fool was dressed when put on camera. As a Head Coach / CEO he looked as if he were a thug, o he is. Hat was turnded back and glasses on , he is still to show his face. GG and one love ,I know who are . lol. King you are the man.

[dagr8_1_4ever]

Guys, I have the rosters. IF you noticed, Lafayette didn't have any transactions either... Why, because we had a game i was at on Saturday, worked Sunday, worked Monday and traveled to a game in Lafayette. worked today.... It will be up.... Just a hint, Go to the Stats page on the SIFL Site, wait let me do that work for you...http://www.southernifl.com/index.php?option=com_wrapper&view=wrapper&Itemid=39 , now you can see the roster, if you can not wait for me to get get it up.

FYI, I personally have Signed contracts for EVERY player that was playing for the Force Monday. Were they players that have been there all season. Some. But players chose not to make the trip, their choice and were replaced. That is each individual teams decision. The players that played, are getting paid. I gave my number to the players that asked for it, in case they had any questions or issues.

As far as the league not doing anything. Seriously.... come on..... Its not like we are going to post on a "Message Board" the actions that are being taken on this situation. There are certain things that legally, have to take place. When it does, still do not think you will see it on a "Message Board" what is actually taking place.

Another FYI, I have yet to receive my FIRST call or complaint from a Player in Greenville. just saying

To the players and fans in Greenville, i know you have been more then patient. I ask you to be patient a little longer.

Thank you

If you had the contracts signed on Monday when the players arrived, that would explain why TW didn't have then sent in to you on Saturday night per league rules. He had not met the team the league had purchased for him.

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[ggbest777]

Yo KING.....did not play in the last game.

I'm going to get mine or someone is going to jail. You see, what I think the league admin fails to understand along with TW is you do not mess with the Department of Labor. They will take it to you!

[bigforcefan]

Wells get picked up by greenville police today for stealing a credit card and useing it. I bet the SIFL is glad there standing behind him. Says alot for the SIFL. There is more to come. players will have warents for him next, Tried to tell yall he is a crook. I LOVE IT.

Put me in coach !!!

[OneLove]

Wells goes to jail!!!!! We are ready to ball out..it your turn sifl you back wells and now that we got him we are going to get that ring

[Over the Top]

Interesting read, I am wondering though. In my business, the first time i do a job and do not get my check, I am moving on and finding something else, not working for that person again. How many games did the players here go on playing? I am not sure how much they get paid, but it surely can not be that much, can it?

You also play in a league that you said turned their back on you, and they are next, for what? Then you say that you want to play for a ring in a league you are attacking. I do not know, something just does not fit here.

I think i am going back to baseball.

[robster2001]

You also play in a league that you said turned their back on you, and they are next, for what? Then you say that you want to play for a ring in a league you are attacking. I do not know, something just does not fit here.


My theory on this is that it's an ego thing. Before anyone flips, let me explain.

It takes a sizable ego to be an athlete. I think we agree with that.

Well, that same ego tends to cause athletes to remain in bad situations longer than you'd expect.

They believe they belong in a higher level, and will take little-to-no salary and all kinds of scheduling insanity in order to fuel their dreams of getting there.

It's all part of chasing the dream. They'll take the garbage now in the belief that the right scout with the right connections is at the next game, will see their incredible talent, and deliver them to the next level. So they don't get paid today. So they don't have insurance today. So their coach is a lying toad. They're better than this, and the only way to prove it is to keep playing, so someone sees them.

At least, that's my theory. Your mileage may vary. :)

[ronniern]

My theory on this is that it's an ego thing. Before anyone flips, let me explain.

It takes a sizable ego to be an athlete. I think we agree with that.

Well, that same ego tends to cause athletes to remain in bad situations longer than you'd expect.

They believe they belong in a higher level, and will take little-to-no salary and all kinds of scheduling insanity in order to fuel their dreams of getting there.

It's all part of chasing the dream. They'll take the garbage now in the belief that the right scout with the right connections is at the next game, will see their incredible talent, and deliver them to the next level. So they don't get paid today. So they don't have insurance today. So their coach is a lying toad. They're better than this, and the only way to prove it is to keep playing, so someone sees them.

At least, that's my theory. Your mileage may vary. :)

The first Rational statement on this whole mess, $150 is not a living wage it's a part-time job,i have sympathy for the players,but to come online and make threats against someone?,if something happens to the guy the first thing the law is going to do is track these post,get a lawyer and work with the system.

[dagr8_1_4ever]

Well as long as the post aren't coming from inside the prison wals it should give most of the poster here an alibi.

[jcompton]

You do not mess with the Department of Labor and that is a FACT!

I think I've seen this mentioned a few times here. Are SIFL players really W-2 salaried employees? I would expect them to be independent contractors. They should be paid, regardless, but regulators are unlikely to get involved in a dispute between a company and its contractors...

[dagr8_1_4ever]

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They work under a signed contract and when people do not live up to their end of a labor contract someone has to follow up with it. They have been contacted and stated they would be looking into it, so you figure they will.

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[jcompton]

State labor departments are far more likely to be interested in proving that an independent contractor should have been treated as a salaried employee, so they can collect their state income tax. Or to find out if those independent employees haven't been reporting and paying their state income tax.

Short of actively filing suit and winning a judgment, I wouldn't advise any independent contractor in a payment dispute to count on help or support from any government bodies.

[mace]

Finally, someone that had a rational thought.... Compton u r the man! That's why I am almost sure that they aren't telling the truth here.... That's all I want, just tell the truth. They bought into what was being told and now they are the fools..... But they don't want to own up to it.



ACCOUNTABILITY!!!!!!

[interested onlooker]

Comp and Mace, you are correct - to a point. They are contractors that have signed contracts that state they will be paid a certain of money and more when they win. They are also "promised" workers comp coverage. The Bi-Lo Center also requires the team carry liability and workers comp to protect them. Now, the fact that the team hasn't had insurance violates the players' contract, the Bi-Lo Center contract and the SC State Workers' Comp laws. The SC Workers Comp Commission is involved as we speak. Now, you are correct in that because they are contractors - this is more of a civil suit - BUT, because the team players did report to the labor board, this has opened the scope of investigation into revenue reporting, taxes, etc.

Mace, you seem to be very critical of the players for continuing to play after no pay. Maybe you have never chased a dream. A dream of doing something that you wanted so bad that you "overlook" flaws in the begining. Only when reality sets in (i.e. no pay for several weeks now personal financial problems or several players are injured and no way for them to recieve ongoing madical care because they have no money to pay) do you realize that you are in a no win situation.

But, its worse than that. The sponsors have not recieved what they were promised for the money they gave the team management. They have complained but, since the owner is the center of this, who do they complain to? Has this hurt the life of the indoor arena football in Greenville for a long time?

The Bi-Lo Center hasn't been paid thier rent money. Should they have stopped things earlier? They were given the turf as collateral. Recently, i was told that the Greemville Force may not own the field. This may be a new twist to be looked at.

After learning of TW's arrest last week, I googleed him and found many things that points to him having similar problems in the past. Does the SIFL not vet their potential team owners?

Much blame to go around...

[Born_on_4th_July]

Well I am fairly new here and because all of this seems a little convoluted, I might have an opinion. I agree that these players were chasing dreams and that they were overlooking some "flaws" in the beginning, but to do it to the point where a team "owner/gm" owes them 750-1000 dollars, something doesn't sound right about this.

I do agree that there is enough blame to go around but to me it seems to start and end with the players "allowing" it to happen to them. I have a real good friend that plays here in Omaha and he doesn't play unless his check is waiting for him when he gets off the plane. Now, would we say that he's not chasing his dream? I don't think so, in fact it seems like that is a very rational way of making sure that you play and you can still make a living (even if it is just 150-250 dollars a game).

After reading this thread today I did the same thing and googled Tony Wells and found out that he is no sunday school teacher. In fact, he almost looks like a thug, but I am not here to judge upon how he looks. The fact is that there are multiple parties to blame, but the players are at fault too. I think that's what this Mace character was trying to get across... just in an abrupt way.

[ggbest777]

Blaming the players?? I would agree for those players that played past a certain point.
But, certain players have taken the correct steps. Again, that is why we have a legal system. You follow the rules and take the steps that are necessary.

example, get an attorney and let him/her tell you the proper steps to take.

As far as the Department of Labor, they do not play when it comes to this stuff.

Some people on here think I am a player.....I could be a fan......or I could know a little about the law and the legal system.

Either way, if you are the CEO of a company, you are responsible for the day to day activities that take place. That my friends is a fact!

[jcompton]

I agree that these players were chasing dreams and that they were overlooking some "flaws" in the beginning, but to do it to the point where a team "owner/gm" owes them 750-1000 dollars, something doesn't sound right about this.


It's not hard to imagine. And I disagree with Paul who says in a related thread that it is comparatively unique to athletes. It happens all the time to a wide range of people who have very specialized, niche skills. You want to do the thing you feel you are best-suited for, even if it means letting some clients (in this case, allegedly, the Force) rack up bills they should be paying. I suspect some variation on this problem has happened to most long-term self-employed people, at one time or another.

I have a real good friend that plays here in Omaha and he doesn't play unless his check is waiting for him when he gets off the plane. Now, would we say that he's not chasing his dream? I don't think so, in fact it seems like that is a very rational way of making sure that you play and you can still make a living (even if it is just 150-250 dollars a game).


The lesson is a good one, but $250/wk for 18 weeks ($250 * 18, the most optimistic result for this scenario) makes for a very frugal, downright monastic definition of "living"!


example, get an attorney and let him/her tell you the proper steps to take.

As far as the Department of Labor, they do not play when it comes to this stuff.


Right. Sadly, for the kind of money we're talking about, consultation and filing fees could easily outstrip the actual amount owed. (A little quick Web searching reveals that the Greenville county circuit court charges $150 to file suit.) And then there's the question--what assets does "The Greenville Force, LLC" have that one could hope to seize if one did win a judgment?

Not to let anybody off the hook for alleged wrongs, but that time, money, and energy might be better spent by players finding another way to pursue the dream of being a professional athlete.

[dagr8_1_4ever]

.
At some point it becomes about principle and not allowing a crook to continue to get off the hook because he is going to file bankruptcy like he has threated.
Of course he has also told the players he has been in jail before and isn't afraid of it. So let him go back to his home away from home instead of walking away a free man again.
His girls, yes there is more than one, are always taking care of him and he has everything in someone elses name so he never really loses.

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