PBL Website Uses Stolen Graphics Work, Code

[misenern]

Wow.

The PBL should be embarrassed for having this current 'design' up as their website. The web design firm they picked must be a real bottom of the barrell, even borderline scam company.

I was just checking out some scores on NHL.com and I noticed that a bunch graphics and parts of code are blatantly jacked from that site and used on the PBL one! The PBL site steals graphics off the NHL, of all places. Did the design company think no one would notice if they just didn't bother to do their own work?

Check out the footer used on the PBL and NHL site. Identical, except the PBL site has a bunch of options and categories left blank.

Then click on teams (on both sites) check out the "Current Roster" button; it's straight up stolen from the NHL site.

The check out the header you see on each page except for the front page. Each image is taken from the NHL site. Here is an example:

PBL site:

http://thepbl.com/images/title_players.gif

NHL site:

http://cdn.nhl.com/league/ext/headers/players_feature400.gif

Look familiar?

And the "Scoreboard header" that is listed under the team logo banner? That's stolen too.

No, this is not the same web company. No, this is not legal. I mean as soon as I first viewed the site I saw how sloppy the graphic design was, and how poorly coded the site was, but this is over the top. This joke web designer stole someone else's work and is using it as their own. And the PBL is a part of this, albeit most likely unknowingly. But they should have looked at this company's portfolio before paying these guys (if they even did). Their work is awful. But ripping off the National Hockey League is insane. It is a complete gong show. The PBL should be refunded for this crap, lazy site and pay a legit company before they get dragged down by this.

[CHris902]

The attempt to stretch out that banner is hilarious, too. You should send the PBL an e-mail.

[misenern]

And... now the website is down.

[not so fast]

Help me, what does this really matter. You sound like the internet police. What do you do, go around the web, and check for matching or look alike websites?

I think you guys need to relax a little. all I want are stats. You guys (as usual) making a big deal out of nothing.

I used to write songs back in my youth. And believe it or not, i hear songs that sound very similar to songs i once wrote, so whats the big deal?

I hope the PBL does not change their website just because a few of you have too much time on your hands.

[misenern]

Help me, what does this really matter. You sound like the internet police. What do you do, go around the web, and check for matching or look alike websites?

I think you guys need to relax a little. all I want are stats. You guys (as usual) making a big deal out of nothing.

I used to write songs back in my youth. And believe it or not, i hear songs that sound very similar to songs i once wrote, so whats the big deal?

I hope the PBL does not change their website just because a few of you have too much time on your hands.

Yes, I am the internet police. I browse obscure sites, like the NHL (what is this game they call 'hockey'?), and make sure they do not look like the PBL's!

But seriously.

If the PBL paid for this website, then yes, I am sure it is a big deal for them. And if the PBL wants to be taken seriously among sponsors, yes I am sure it is a big deal for them. And if the PBL doesn't want their website shut down mid season when they get an unexpected letter from the NHL, then yes, I am sure people would/will care.

And I am not among the old farts that still think that websites don't matter. This isn't 1989. Personally I am with you one one thing though. All I want is a site that's easy to use that's updated frequently with scores, stats and recaps. But that can't happen if your website is bush league and gets shut down for ripping off the NHL (and surprise, the website isn't up right now).

And if you think the graphics merely "look alike", then you are nuts my friend!! Sorry!

[preeths]

Don't know for certain, but I would guess this falls directly on the company that designed the PBL website, not the PBL itself. misenern, do you have an idea how widespread the graphics copying is on the PBL site? If it's just those banners, the website company may have used them as placeholders during design and simply forgot to replace them in the final product.

[not so fast]

Well now you are going to have ken all over this, calling the pbl thieves or whatever else he wants to call them in his jump to conclusion attitude.

Why would the NHL care if the pbl or their designer copied their graphics? I didnt know the pbl was in competition with the NHL.

And sorry, i havent watch the NHL since Dennis Savard stop playing for the Blackhawks, man he was great. And of course the Golden jet Bobby Hull. Wow, now that makes me think of his brother dennis hall, and stan Makita, and Al Secord, keith magnuson, and Tony Espisito! Thise were the days. And I hated those Saint louis blues and those detroit deadwings!!!

[misenern]

Don't know for certain, but I would guess this falls directly on the company that designed the PBL website, not the PBL itself. misenern, do you have an idea how widespread the graphics copying is on the PBL site? If it's just those banners, the website company may have used them as placeholders during design and simply forgot to replace them in the final product.

It is much more than those banners. Buttons, the footer on each page ( the one with options for 'AFFLIATED SITES, PLAYER SITES, etc) which isn't simply a .gif or anything, it's HTML, even the schedule graphic that appears on the main banner under the pictures of the teams. And yeah, I don't mean to blame the PBL other than their vetting and selection process of the web designer.

And for anyone else that thinks this is nitpicking, ask Chuck Miller, who is on the PBL staff, what he thinks of plagiarizing images and work like this.

[misenern]

Well now you are going to have ken all over this, calling the pbl thieves or whatever else he wants to call them in his jump to conclusion attitude.

Why would the NHL care if the pbl or their designer copied their graphics? I didnt know the pbl was in competition with the NHL.

And sorry, i havent watch the NHL since Dennis Savard stop playing for the Blackhawks, man he was great. And of course the Golden jet Bobby Hull. Wow, now that makes me think of his brother dennis hall, and stan Makita, and Al Secord, keith magnuson, and Tony Espisito! Thise were the days. And I hated those Saint louis blues and those detroit deadwings!!!

I don't mean to call the PBL thieves, I just come off overly aggressive on message boards. But they ARE implicated in this. And yes, the NHL would care, quite a bit, believe it or not.

As for the Hawks, they are coming alive again after 10 years of suck. Maybe it's time to get back into it?

[Ken, Steelheads fan]

If the PBL paid for this website, then yes, I am sure it is a big deal for them. And if the PBL wants to be taken seriously among sponsors, yes I am sure it is a big deal for them. And if the PBL doesn't want their website shut down mid season when they get an unexpected letter from the NHL, then yes, I am sure people would/will care.


Bingo! You are spot-on with these posts.

[not so fast]

Hey ken, isnt the pbl responsible for global warming? And ken, aren't they responsible for the high unemployment rate in America?

[basketball facts]

Global warming? Yes. They produce to much CO2 with all their hot hair about fights with ABA, a meaningless player draft, false claims concerning profit sharing, false expansion, etc. They should be more concentrated on running their league professionaly then worrying about all of that other stuff. Where is Dallas?, where are the Throwbacks?, why is Buffalo asking a coach and players to perform for free?, where are the stats? Come on NTF, lay off the Kool-Aid just a bit.

[ABARedWhiteBlue]

Hey ken, isnt the pbl responsible for global warming? And ken, aren't they responsible for the high unemployment rate in America?

NSF - I understand your cynicism, but this IS a big deal to the PBL; big enough that they took down their website today.

If it was a Homestead-designed site - with general layouts used by multiple customers - then I could see the similarity making sense.

If it was the same company that pushed its site design for the NHL to the PBL, I'd be annoyed if I were the PBL for (first) paying for a duplicate layout and (second) for not looking in advance at their other clients and possibily seeing this design up front.

The fact that this is another company that seems to have 'borrowed' code from another prominent site is probably enough to void this deal by the PBL.

(sort of) similar story - when I joined the ABA Jaguars right after they were announced, we had no logo. My owner solicited a few people and one guy came back with a mock up, and was very pushy with Ron to have it selected (and get his fee). Ron was ready to pay the guy, but showed me the logo first to get my input. Essentially, it was the Jacksonville Jaguars logo superimposed over a basketball - down to the identical color scheme. Ron had no idea (not following football at all), but I sent him a copy of the Jax logo to compare. He tore up the check.

Bottom line - due diligence is paramount; people are often too lazy or conniving to do the right thing, and it can bite you in the rear if you are on the wrong end of their actions.

[sonnie20]

A1 these alligations must be false, your the insider tell them what really happened that NHL league whoever they are must have stolen these graphics from the PBL.

[not so fast]

Can I ask this, how many fans that attend NHL games looks at the websites and would even know of the PBL? And if they did look at the website, how many would even care that they websites were similar? I am trying to remember my good buddies who were avid hockey fans, going home from a Blackhawks game, going on the pbl website and saying " OH MY GOD, HOW DARE THIS PBL LEAGUE, THEY STOLE OUR GRAPHICS. THIS IS AN OUTRAGE. I WILL NEVER GO TO ANOTHER NHL GAME AGAIN. I WILL EMAIL THE OWNERS OF OUR TEAM AND TELL THEM TO SUE THAT DARN PBL. THEY GOT A LOT OF NERVE. IN FACT, I WANT A REFUND FOR MY SEASON TICKETS!"

Yes, this will be known as "GRAPHICGATE" , Starring doyle, the doc,chuck the writer, a-1.

Actually I think we ought to have congressional hearings. Forget the terror attacks, obama I want an investigation into "GRAPHICGATE"

I think we should send them to Guantanamo Prison. (soon to be Illinois prison. at least the doc will have a short ride to prison.)

[wellington]

Bottom line - due diligence is paramount; people are often too lazy or conniving to do the right thing, and it can bite you in the rear if you are on the wrong end of their actions.
Not to pile on, but again it shows very poor attention to detail by the PBL. If they cannot even take care of the little things, how can they do all these lofty things they have planned? Their biggest problem is that they are undermanned and trying to do a full-time job on a part-time basis. The 'new' website was crappy to begin with -- they should have stuck with the old site.

[ABARedWhiteBlue]

Not to pile on, but again it shows very poor attention to detail by the PBL. If they cannot even take care of the little things, how can they do all these lofty things they have planned? Their biggest problem is that they are undermanned and trying to do a full-time job on a part-time basis. The 'new' website was crappy to begin with -- they should have stuck with the old site.

Exactly. I think that the PBL means well, but is trying to be an Olympic sprint champion before they have fully learned how to walk.

Bring in the right people, devote the necessary time and money to do things the right way, and they can be as successful as they think they are now.

The bar has been set unfathomably low by the Newman-esque actions of the red, white and blue league, but that shouldn't stop leagues from reaching for far loftier levels of professionalism and achievement.

[ABARedWhiteBlue]

Can I ask this, how many fans that attend NHL games looks at the websites and would even know of the PBL? And if they did look at the website, how many would even care that they websites were similar? I am trying to remember my good buddies who were avid hockey fans, going home from a Blackhawks game, going on the pbl website and saying " OH MY GOD, HOW DARE THIS PBL LEAGUE, THEY STOLE OUR GRAPHICS. THIS IS AN OUTRAGE. I WILL NEVER GO TO ANOTHER NHL GAME AGAIN. I WILL EMAIL THE OWNERS OF OUR TEAM AND TELL THEM TO SUE THAT DARN PBL. THEY GOT A LOT OF NERVE. IN FACT, I WANT A REFUND FOR MY SEASON TICKETS!"

Yes, this will be known as "GRAPHICGATE" , Starring doyle, the doc,chuck the writer, a-1.

Actually I think we ought to have congressional hearings. Forget the terror attacks, obama I want an investigation into "GRAPHICGATE"

I think we should send them to Guantanamo Prison. (soon to be Illinois prison. at least the doc will have a short ride to prison.)

Obvious sarcasm aside - I think you have the scenario skewed a bit.

It isn't the average NHL fan who might know or even care, but the PBL fan who would/should question its league.

The PBL is trying to forge its own identity in the sports landscape; so using a virtual copy of another professional league's web site makes no sense.

And I'm sure the PBL had no idea there was a similarity. But the fact that they brought their own site down today indicates that at least on some level they are aware of the issue (it is back up now, BTW; better to have the league info available than to shut down and create a new site that could be days or more away).

There are any number of web companies out there, with virtually limitless possibilities of layouts and desgins to use. Hopefully the league finds a company with the requisite creativity and ability to build them a great site and enhace their presence to the public.

[LightningMan]

I honestly don't know what was wrong with the place they used last year. The Sea Dawgs seem to be keeping the basic core of last year's individual team design even though they're not affiliated with the PBL anymore.

Changing web design companies every year smacks more of ABA-ism than I would like.

[preeths]

Not to pile on, but again it shows very poor attention to detail by the PBL. If they cannot even take care of the little things, how can they do all these lofty things they have planned? Their biggest problem is that they are undermanned and trying to do a full-time job on a part-time basis. The 'new' website was crappy to begin with -- they should have stuck with the old site.

Can't disagree more. With the PBL site apparently designed by an outside company, this falls on the designer. There are literally millions of websites out there, and there is no way for a client to be able to vet the graphics on a site someone else is designing for them. I believe that's an unreasonable expectation. The PBL is likely the victim here. They apparently paid for a site that the payee didn't entirely design.

But I have to disagree with NSF. Stealing someone else's work is a big deal. Because this appears to be more than a couple buttons, and therefore more than just an oversight, the designer needs to be held accountable and be forced to make the necessary changes.

[dmbishop]

From the NHL Terms Of Service Page (note the stuff in bold):

http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=26389

15. PROPRIETARY RIGHTS
You acknowledge and agree that (i) NHL, the NHL Shield, the word mark and image of the Stanley Cup, and NHL Conference logos are registered trademarks of the National Hockey League;(ii) all NHL logos and marks and NHL member club logos and marks as well as all other proprietary materials depicted on the Websites, the Services and the Content are the property of the NHL and the respective NHL member clubs or are licensed to the NHL Parties and may not be reproduced without the prior written consent of NHL Enterprises, L.P. (or its designee); and (iii) the Content, including, without limitation, news articles, press releases, statistics, player biographies, photographs, images, illustrations, audio and video clips, is the property of, or is licensed by, NHL ICE or one or more of the other NHL Entities. You further acknowledge and agree that (i) any necessary software used in connection with the Websites, the Services and the Content (the "Software") contains proprietary and confidential information that is protected by applicable intellectual property and other laws and is either owned by or licensed to NHL ICE; and (ii) content contained in sponsor advertisements or information presented to you through the Websites, the Services and the Content or advertisers is protected by copyrights, trademarks, service marks, patents or other proprietary rights and laws. Except as expressly authorized by the NHL Entities or advertisers, you agree not to reproduce, republish, upload, post, transmit, distribute, copy, publicly display or otherwise use the Content, the Software or any derivative works based on the Websites, the Services, the Content or the Software, in whole or in part. You agree not to modify the Software in any manner or form, or to use modified versions of the Software, including (without limitation) for the purpose of obtaining unauthorized access to the Services. You agree not to access the Services by any means other than through the interface that is provided by the NHL Parties for use in accessing the Services. Other than a limited right of personal use in connection with your personal, non-commercial use of the Websites, the Services and the Content, you will have no rights to the Software.

[preeths]

I honestly don't know what was wrong with the place they used last year. The Sea Dawgs seem to be keeping the basic core of last year's individual team design even though they're not affiliated with the PBL anymore.

Changing web design companies every year smacks more of ABA-ism than I would like.

If I'm not mistaken, the PBL had issues with the website design company from last year. I've spoken to other clients of the same company, and some of them also had issues. I'm not going to badmouth anyone, but I have some experience with dealing with a design company that did not live up to its promises. It happens to be the same company the PBL used last year. In this instance, I can't blame them for switching. We did, too.

[Ken, Steelheads fan]

Can't disagree more. With the PBL site apparently designed by an outside company, this falls on the designer. There are literally millions of websites out there, and there is no way for a client to be able to vet the graphics on a site someone else is designing for them...

...but Paul, there's only one National Hockey League website. Maybe it's just me, but I think an up and coming league would want to make itself familiar with EVERY major league website. Afterall, there aren't that many major leagues out there to cause confusion. Lessons can be learned from how the big boys do things. Based on these lessons, suggestions can be made by the client to the web company (somewhere during the design process). That doesn't suggest telling the web company to lift code directly, but it certainly seems logical to stay abreast of the best...at least it seems logical to me. Know as much as there is to know about the big leagues.

Of course, if an up and coming league feels they have nothing to learn from the major leagues then yes, the client in this case most likely would not be familiar with the design of the NHL website.

[not so fast]

I swear, some of you PBL police just spend your day waiting to see if the PBL misteps or makes a mistake. Maybe in your small worlds websites are important, but how did major sports survive all these years without them? Man I can remember going to see ernie banks play, bill buckner for the cubs, jerry sloan for the bulls, walter payton for the bears, and never did I check a website before going.

I wish the PBL office had a mean streak to tell some of you guys to go to **** and worry about yourself. But they are a lot nicer than I am so they put up with your petty nonsense. Those of you trying to turn a website lookalike into watergate.

This is not a perfect league, and last I checked can any of you basketball know-it-alls, point to a perfect league? that includes the NBA, where last i checked, you have players bringing loaded guns to locker rooms, and referees going to prison fixing and gambling on games. But according to some of you, we should look for the high and mighty big leagues for our guidance. I bet you same guys use to watch jim and tammy faye baker.

If the league changes the website (and I wouldn't if i were them) you guys will still criticize them no matter what they do.

I do wonder sometime how i got in this position of always defending the PBL, to tell you the truth, I am getting worn down with this. The price I pay for being open minded and fair. (not to mention, charismatic, smart, good looking, brilliant,...... okay, now where's my pills?)

[bdyer]

But according to some of you, we should look for the high and mighty big leagues for our guidance.We should look to them for html code.

[Paul S]

I gotta side with Paul on this.

If the PBL goes out and buys a website and it then turns out to be pilfered from another company they are victims too.

I own a business and I went to a sign company for our sign outside. They gave me a series of choices..........or I could give them a custom design. Frankly their choices were better than something I could dream up so I went with one of their graphic packages. The fact that my sign is similar in font, color and shape to a local muffler shop down the street simply means we bought a similar product from the same store.

Maybe the web design company owns the product and can sell to whomever they want, the same product.

I know it looks odd that the PBL has shuttered its site but this isn't a knock on the PBL, far from it. In fact they look like a ethical business if alerted to this and they close the site rather than say "talk to XYZ web design company"

[ABARedWhiteBlue]

I swear, some of you PBL police just spend your day waiting to see if the PBL misteps or makes a mistake. Maybe in your small worlds websites are important, but how did major sports survive all these years without them? Man I can remember going to see ernie banks play, bill buckner for the cubs, jerry sloan for the bulls, walter payton for the bears, and never did I check a website before going.

I wish the PBL office had a mean streak to tell some of you guys to go to **** and worry about yourself. But they are a lot nicer than I am so they put up with your petty nonsense. Those of you trying to turn a website lookalike into watergate.

This is not a perfect league, and last I checked can any of you basketball know-it-alls, point to a perfect league? that includes the NBA, where last i checked, you have players bringing loaded guns to locker rooms, and referees going to prison fixing and gambling on games. But according to some of you, we should look for the high and mighty big leagues for our guidance. I bet you same guys use to watch jim and tammy faye baker.

If the league changes the website (and I wouldn't if i were them) you guys will still criticize them no matter what they do.

I do wonder sometime how i got in this position of always defending the PBL, to tell you the truth, I am getting worn down with this. The price I pay for being open minded and fair. (not to mention, charismatic, smart, good looking, brilliant,...... okay, now where's my pills?)

Nobody is asking you to 'defend' the PBL, and other than Sonnie (who has obvious issues) and Ken (I assume you'll count him as well), who else in this thread would qualify as PBL police? A1 never chimed in, and Chuck has not been here as well (to name two others you would lump together, as funny as that is in reality).

The world has evolved from the days of "Let's play two" and the Super Bowl Shuffle. The internet, with the ongoing demise of so many major newspapers, IS the primary mode of communication for many teams and leagues, and the go-to place for information, stats, etc. The fact that you are active on this site is proof enough of the impact the web has on modern sports fans.

The league website IS a big deal, and represents the most obvious first impression to many fans. The fact that the league may have unwittingly paid a company to essentially half-a$$ the creation of their site by essentially copying another, more prominent site is an issue that should be addressed.

The website as it stands has far too many 'under construction' sections on its front page as it is; those should have been hidden or filled in to begin with (it has an unfinished, Newman-esque quality to it now). Hopefully, they are able to rectify it with a new web design if possible.

[not so fast]

ABAredwhiteandblue, thats great you know about lets play two and the superbowl shuffle.

I sometimes think that Chicago sports didn't exist in the mind of America until Michael Jordan arrived.

And you are right, I should rephrase my thoughts and direct them squarely at ken (who in spite of his prejudice, I consider him a friend.).

For the record, I was hard on the PBL about their websites in the beginning, especially about stats. They did a good job of trying to address it. I also agree with the comments that they are trying to run this league with too small of a staff. But I think they just don't trust a lot of people, so they keep their inner circle small.

And thats fine, but your inner circle needs to be really sharp and efficient, and truly understand what they are doing. Otherwise, it will open itself up to critics.

My guess is they feel they have been burned by people who they intrusted to help them so they keep it small, but they are trying to do big things, and although they may be smart in their other chosen professions, running a minlorleague basketball league is not anything you just wake up one day and just do it.

even the NBA has failed in many ways with NBDL.

So let me wrap up by saying I hope they succeed and continue to address things that need attention in this league, and I know others (mainly juniper has suggested they get an advisory board, and I think that might be a good idea for them.)

There are a lot of people who have good ideas, but who also have really good talents and knowledge that can help them (some are on this board), and instead of being reactionary, they can cut off problems and criticism in advance.

Finally they have a guy named Rod Baker, who has been around a long time. they might want to consider making him a league administrator and taking him out of coaching. He has great experience coaching, but he has been around successful minorleagues for years. Now maybe they use him already in that capacity, I am not sure. But I think he could be a valuable resource. And since the doc is in Chicago, he should consult with people like Jarren jackson and Chris daleo, both who are in the midwest and could help them understand what it takes. And In spite of the problems they have had in the past, Jewell harris from Gary indiana, has great insight as well. And could also be a part of this advisory board.

[preeths]

...but Paul, there's only one National Hockey League website. Maybe it's just me, but I think an up and coming league would want to make itself familiar with EVERY major league website. Afterall, there aren't that many major leagues out there to cause confusion. Lessons can be learned from how the big boys do things. Based on these lessons, suggestions can be made by the client to the web company (somewhere during the design process). That doesn't suggest telling the web company to lift code directly, but it certainly seems logical to stay abreast of the best...at least it seems logical to me. Know as much as there is to know about the big leagues.

Of course, if an up and coming league feels they have nothing to learn from the major leagues then yes, the client in this case most likely would not be familiar with the design of the NHL website.

I believe that's an unreasonable expectation for two reasons. First, the NHL is hockey. I would expect that the PBL be reasonably aware of what the NBA's site looks like because they're also a basketball league. I would expect them to be aware of what the sites for the other minor basketball leagues look like. But I don't expect them to be familiar with hockey sites, not even the NHL's. Second, clients often have little idea what they want in a site. Maybe a few suggestions, yes, but it's often left up to the designer to pull it all together. I've been on both sides of the client-designer relationship, and many clients, particularly small ones, often just don't have the time to scour the Internet. I think you're making a mistake by suggesting that the little boys can do what the big boys do. Minor leagues just don't have the time, manpower or resources.

[Ken, Steelheads fan]

I never suggested the little boys can DO what the big boys can do. However, I did suggest the minor leagues can LEARN from the major leagues. All of the major leagues. Like I said. Maybe it's just me, but as a minor league exec I would be searching ALL the major league sites for ideas. I would be particularly interested in sponsors on those sites. Would they also be interested in sponsoring MY site as well? It wouldn't hurt to ask, would be my thinking...but that's me.

You seem to be suggesting the PBL is operating in some sort of basketball vacuum and wouldn't recognize the NHL site if it fell on them. Maybe that is the case, but I would hope these guys were big sports fans long before they became sports execs. Using myself as an example again, I can mentally picture the NHL site because I've been going there to check on the Winter Classic at Fenway Park. I can picture the NFL site because I've been checking for highlights on the Bears. I've also got a fresh picture of the NBA site on my mind for some reason. I'm a big sports fan and I can make a mental picture...but that's me. If the PBL brass are big sports fans, then they don't visit major league sports internet sites--or at the very least, they don't retain the look of these sites in their minds. At least, that's what I'm to believe according to you.

Want to know what I believe REALLY happened? Posters already nailed it. The PBL site is the result of a lazy web developer. However, I don't think the PBL is a victim. I think the PBL is just as lazy for not doing their due diligence (as another poster suggested) and I'm finding it hard to believe the PBL brass wasn't hands-on enough to suggest what they liked and disliked about various pro sites like the NHL site. These guys are hands-on, maybe TOO hands-on at times.

[preeths]

I never suggested the little boys can DO what the big boys can do. However, I did suggest the minor leagues can LEARN from the major leagues. All of the major leagues. Like I said. Maybe it's just me, but as a minor league exec I would be searching ALL the major league sites for ideas. I would be particularly interested in sponsors on those sites. Would they also be interested in sponsoring MY site as well? It wouldn't hurt to ask, would be my thinking...but that's me.

You seem to be suggesting the PBL is operating in some sort of basketball vacuum and wouldn't recognize the NHL site if it fell on them. Maybe that is the case, but I would hope these guys were big sports fans long before they became sports execs. Using myself as an example again, I can mentally picture the NHL site because I've been going there to check on the Winter Classic at Fenway Park. I can picture the NFL site because I've been checking for highlights on the Bears. I've also got a fresh picture of the NBA site on my mind for some reason. I'm a big sports fan and I can make a mental picture...but that's me. If the PBL brass are big sports fans, then they don't visit major league sports internet sites--or at the very least, they don't retain the look of these sites in their minds. At least, that's what I'm to believe according to you.

Want to know what I believe REALLY happened? Posters already nailed it. The PBL site is the result of a lazy web developer. However, I don't think the PBL is a victim. I think the PBL is just as lazy for not doing their due diligence (as another poster suggested) and I'm finding it hard to believe the PBL brass wasn't hands-on enough to suggest what they liked and disliked about various pro sites like the NHL site. These guys are hands-on, maybe TOO hands-on at times.

But you are suggesting the minors behave as the majors, you're just not explicitly stating it that way. Searching major league sites for potential sponsors? Are you serious? I'm not suggesting the PBL is operating in any type of vacuum. Quite the contrary. I'm suggesting they are operating in the real world with all the real-world restrictions of time, money and resources that every minor league faces. You expectations are simply unrealistic.

[Juniper]

Why are there so many of us that have a hard time seeing the positive out of the leadership of the PBL? We understand Sonnie. Myself, it is because of the integrity issue. Bottom Line. It will be a process for me to trust this league. It may take a couple of years. It will still be hard to over come due the the conflict. Own league and team. A Board of Directors would be a start. When there are so many that have negative views, I think the league should look in the mirror and ask why people feel that way. If the reasons are legit, then make changes. I hear NSF saying that last years situation was wrong. It was nice that Doc shared that with NSF, but has he called the owners in Battle Creek and said that. Again, integrity. Wow, I learn so much from you all. Keep educating gang.

[Ken, Steelheads fan]

But you are suggesting the minors behave as the majors, you're just not explicitly stating it that way. Searching major league sites for potential sponsors? Are you serious? I'm not suggesting the PBL is operating in any type of vacuum. Quite the contrary. I'm suggesting they are operating in the real world with all the real-world restrictions of time, money and resources that every minor league faces. You expectations are simply unrealistic.

Ahhhhhh yes, I'm suggesting the little boys should search the big boys' (major league) sites for potential sponsors. What's the harm??? It may be a bit time consuming, but it's not a physically demanding task and it may prove profitable. For example, there is a mega large corporation that sponsors the big guys and will also sponsor the little guys. The deal is THEY will provide the high quality banner, but YOU must provide them pics of the banner being displayed in a crowd setting before any cash is sent to you. They demand proof. I know this to be a fact because I was the person tasked with snapping the pics.

While I was writing this post, I tabbed over to NFL.com and saw an advertisement for one of this corporation's competitors. Maybe I'm being unrealistic or maybe THIS corporation offers a similar deal. Either way, it was only a few mouse clicks worth of my time (and I still have a mental picture of NFL.com).

[one way]

Why are there so many of us that have a hard time seeing the positive out of the leadership of the PBL? We understand Sonnie. Myself, it is because of the integrity issue. Bottom Line. It will be a process for me to trust this league. It may take a couple of years. It will still be hard to over come due the the conflict. Own league and team. A Board of Directors would be a start. When there are so many that have negative views, I think the league should look in the mirror and ask why people feel that way. If the reasons are legit, then make changes. I hear NSF saying that last years situation was wrong. It was nice that Doc shared that with NSF, but has he called the owners in Battle Creek and said that. Again, integrity. Wow, I learn so much from you all. Keep educating gang.

Do not worry. Rochester and maryland will be in the NDBL next year. Bet on it

[preeths]

Ahhhhhh yes, I'm suggesting the little boys should search the big boys' (major league) sites for potential sponsors. What's the harm??? It may be a bit time consuming, but it's not a physically demanding task and it may prove profitable. For example, there is a mega large corporation that sponsors the big guys and will also sponsor the little guys. The deal is THEY will provide the high quality banner, but YOU must provide them pics of the banner being displayed in a crowd setting before any cash is sent to you. They demand proof. I know this to be a fact because I was the person tasked with snapping the pics.

While I was writing this post, I tabbed over to NFL.com and saw an advertisement for one of this corporation's competitors. Maybe I'm being unrealistic or maybe THIS corporation offers a similar deal. Either way, it was only a few mouse clicks worth of my time (and I still have a mental picture of NFL.com).

Great suggestion, unreasonable expectation. Of course there isn't any harm in doing lots of research. No one's suggesting they skip it, if they have the resources, but that takes people and that takes time, two things minor league don't have as much of as the majors.

[Ken, Steelheads fan]

Wow.

The PBL should be embarrassed for having this current 'design' up as their website. The web design firm they picked must be a real bottom of the barrell, even borderline scam company.

I was just checking out some scores on NHL.com and I noticed that a bunch graphics and parts of code are blatantly jacked from that site and used on the PBL one! The PBL site steals graphics off the NHL, of all places. Did the design company think no one would notice if they just didn't bother to do their own work?

Check out the footer used on the PBL and NHL site. Identical, except the PBL site has a bunch of options and categories left blank.

Then click on teams (on both sites) check out the "Current Roster" button; it's straight up stolen from the NHL site.

The check out the header you see on each page except for the front page. Each image is taken from the NHL site. Here is an example:

PBL site:

http://thepbl.com/images/title_players.gif

NHL site:

http://cdn.nhl.com/league/ext/headers/players_feature400.gif

Look familiar?

And the "Scoreboard header" that is listed under the team logo banner? That's stolen too.

No, this is not the same web company. No, this is not legal. I mean as soon as I first viewed the site I saw how sloppy the graphic design was, and how poorly coded the site was, but this is over the top. This joke web designer stole someone else's work and is using it as their own. And the PBL is a part of this, albeit most likely unknowingly. But they should have looked at this company's portfolio before paying these guys (if they even did). Their work is awful. But ripping off the National Hockey League is insane. It is a complete gong show. The PBL should be refunded for this crap, lazy site and pay a legit company before they get dragged down by this.

Is stealing from the NHL going to become an annual thing? I wish Doc would spend a few extra dollars (in addition to the millions he's spending now) to buy his own website.

[AlextheGreat]

This website is a joke. Why do they run an internet tv station but not have a decent site for the league. Good grief, even Andrew Haines has a new site that looks good.

I honestly could build one in an hour that could run circles around these ugly sites.

[wasteland]

Wow.

Some of you people need to get a girlfriend.

Seriously.

[nksports]

Some of you people need to get a girlfriend.

I would but my wife would get upset

[Ken, Steelheads fan]

Wow.

Some of you people need to get a girlfriend.

Seriously.

{sound of crickets}...I almost had a girlfriend once...{sound of more crickets}