AHL Franchise Changes, or, Lemme Get This Straight....

[HeadFirst]

The heck with keeping track of affiliations. I'm just not that smart. I simply want to get a grip on what markets will no longer have, and what markets will now have, AHL franchises, for the season 2005-2006.

Correct me if I'm wrong:

Out:

Edmonton
St. John's
Utah
Worcester
Cincinnati (maybe)
San Antonio (maybe)

In:

Des Moines
Omaha
Peoria
Toronto
Orlando (maybe)

St. John's will field a LHJMQ squad; Utah will find itself in the ECHL, while San Antonio will resume being a CHL market. Edmonton has the Oilers, and Cincinnati and Worcester just might be shucks out of luck. Net loss of one (1) franchise. (Maybe.)

What am I missing? I'm going to end this post now before my brain explodes inside my skull.

[nksports]

Most of this is all because of the lockout. A lot of NHL teams are nervous about spending money on owning or maintaining agreements with AHL teams while their core business is shut down indefinitely. At the same time, they don't want to lose development opportunties for the farm hands under contract. Thus hilarity, I mean, instability ensues.
At the same time, they are in a quandry if they want to use replacement players ala Major League Baseball or the NFL.
They can't just plug in their AHL farmhands. As soon as an AHL player (or ECHL player for that matter) under NHL contract is called up, that player immediately becomes a union member and locked out. (They would have to be released from their NHL contract and resigned, which wouldn't happen because the union could take action.)
They have to get their replacement players from the AHL, ECHL, UHL, CHL and SPHL who are not the property of an NHL team. BTW: under current Canadian federal and provincial laws, only the US teams could operate with replacement players. The NHL owners would have to form temporary teams to take the place of the Canadian teams and they could not play in Canada.
But most of the AHL's problems are directly related to the lockout.

[Pounder]

NHL already took replacement players off the table. That just wasn't going to work for them. There had already been enough of a disaster created that using replacement players would have driven the league over the edge.

Now that there's a reported agreement on a salary cap, NHL teams might begin lamenting not getting into full affiliations. OTOH, they're still deliberating arbitration and free agency, which is expected to last into July before a full agreement is reached.

BTW... Cincinnati seems to be out, but on hiatus. Orlando very likely is NOT going to happen this coming season, but be ready for 06-07.

[patmc16]

Man, if I wasn't confused enough.

The Edmonton situation is beyond the grasp of my aching head. They are afraid that they will be too much competition for the Oilers to handle? What kind of a freakin' excuse is that? :x If that is true, too bad for the Oilers. Didn't they realize that before they moved the team from Toronto? Why didn't they move it somewhere else in Western Canada if all they were going to do is shut it down in Edmonton when the NHL returns? If I was on the BOG, I would tell them no! Either run the franchise or sell it to someone who will, either in Edmonton or elsewhere. Ya, what company wouldn't shut down a division of itself that, in it's own words was "sucessful" and made a "financial contribution"? What a bunch of freakin' morons! If the Oilers can't hang in Edmonton with a minor league team, move 'em to Portland, OR. Kinda like the booby prize for not landing the Expos.

Deep breath.

I hadn't heard anything about the San Antonio Rampage being on the outs. I have followed that franchise with a little more interest than the other AHL franchises (not named the Griffins) as they are the franchise previously known as the Adirondack Red Wings. Owner (and owner of the Detroit Red Wings) Mike Ilitch let his franchise go dormant with the expectation that it would be revived in the suburbs of Toledo, OH once they built him an arena. They never did, so he sold the franchise to the San Antonio Spurs, who briefly revived it as the San Antonio Stampede, only to change the name when a legal challenge came from another team, which I assume was the CHL's Central Texas Stampede. Anywho, if it goes dormant for multiple years again, I probably won't recognize it when it resurfaces. Oh well, one less thing to fit in this head. :lol:

[Pounder]

I can't begin to understand the motivations for actually bringing the Road Runners (not Roadrunners) to Edmonton. I can guess, though.

Thing is, as far back as December or so, the folks in Edmonton were looking to trade out their AHL team for a WHL team. Ever since Calgary made it work, the Oiler owners seem to have preferred to get back into the W. It's possible they saw the Road Runners as barter... which still blows my mind. I think they thought Saskatoon would bite... what timing that the Blades had their best year in a while. As Portland's arena situation went to the dogs, Edmonton probably thought this was Plan B (the Rose Garden was taken over by Global Spectrum, who does house both the Flyers and Phantoms in Philly), but Portland didn't bite either. There must have been some serious puke flying when they realized that Tri-Cities (Kennewick / Richland / Pasco in Washington... or Nuke Country, if you wish) was the only legitimate option, and they weren't about to see an AHL team as a booby prize.

Given the other W possibilities, Edmonton's last hope had to be that Utah would stick around, and maybe even drag some E teams in with them. With Utah going, Edmonton lost its barter leverage. El foldo time... though that's probably would have happened in Toronto the year before anyway.

[chdahs]

San Antonio is not going anywhere it'll just trade Florida for Phoenix according to what is now being reported around Phoenix anyways, Patmc.

As for the Road Runners, the plan was to resurrect the team other than @ Rexall Place, the Oilers still own the rights to it, they just haven't decided where.

[chdahs]

Spurs Sports & Entertainment HAS completed the buyout of Sunrise Sports & Entertainment's aka the Florida Panthers portion of the franchise and has signed a multi-year agreement with Phoenix.

SSE now is the sole owner of the Rampage.

http://www.sarampage.com :)

[Pounder]

Spurs Sports & Entertainment HAS completed the buyout of Sunrise Sports & Entertainment's aka the Florida Panthers portion of the franchise and has signed a multi-year agreement with Phoenix.

SSE now is the sole owner of the Rampage.

http://www.sarampage.com :)

This sale allows the Panthers to go after an AHL franchise to be placed in Orlando... probably the dormant Utah franchise, though it appears they have options.

[utahguy]

I have a pretty reliable source in Utah that knows what went on with the whole Orlando-San Antonio-Utah shift. With Utah dropping out of the A, they still owed Phoenix a place to put their AHL level team for one more year. Their owner, Dave Elmore, decided he was going to sell his AHL paper to the Florida Panthers, who would then start up their own team in Orlando. But he asked for too much money, so they bought the San Antonio team, which was available because their Dallas affiliation was done with them moving to Peoria. They moved the San Antoinio team to Orlando, but Phoenix was still out of luck. So they decided to buy the paper from Orlando and use a joint affiliation and move the team back to San Antonio, this time making a run at that city with new ownership. Elmore still has his AHL paper, and is still asking too much for it.

Kind of confusing, but then again, nothing in hockey has made sense for a while

[chdahs]

I have a pretty reliable source in Utah that knows what went on with the whole Orlando-San Antonio-Utah shift. With Utah dropping out of the A, they still owed Phoenix a place to put their AHL level team for one more year. Their owner, Dave Elmore, decided he was going to sell his AHL paper to the Florida Panthers, who would then start up their own team in Orlando. But he asked for too much money, so they bought the San Antonio team, which was available because their Dallas affiliation was done with them moving to Peoria. They moved the San Antoinio team to Orlando, but Phoenix was still out of luck. So they decided to buy the paper from Orlando and use a joint affiliation and move the team back to San Antonio, this time making a run at that city with new ownership. Elmore still has his AHL paper, and is still asking too much for it.

Kind of confusing, but then again, nothing in hockey has made sense for a while

utahguy:

What are you talking about????????

SA bought the Panthers out of their contract for Florida to pursue the acquisition of the Grizzlies AHL franchise to be placed in Orlando, The Rampage were never transferred from the Spurs'ownership at any given time, but the Grizzlies were awarded a franchise in the ECHL EVEN THOUGH the franchises are in effect owned by Elmore in WVC.

Where did it say that Florida transferred the Rampage back and forth to Orlando and back to SA if they did not pay the business expenses and were only responsible for all hockey decision, SSE (now the sole owner of the franchise) WAS responsible for all expenses not hockey related.

If that had happened the Spurs would be very irritated with that decision and and that is why SSE filed to transfer the hockey end back under their control and subsequently signed with the Coyotes.

Phoenix has had nothing to do with the transfer since Elmore folded his AHL Franchise in May 2005, if they had a quibble it was w/ Elmore for breaking his deal w/ PHX.

BTW, Dallas has never been in Utah and the Grizzlies were fighting a lawsuit just as PHX did investigate Elmore at the time he folded the Grizzlies as an AHL team.

Dallas then went to Houston as a temporary because of the Iowa franchise which the AHL approved a year prior to this. Iowa was given approval to delay until this fall SO THAT THE NEW arena and other specifications can be done and how does Peoria fit into this anyway, utah guy, Peoria is the relocated Worcester Ice Cats, since there was no owner willing to keep that team successfully there under the Blues regime. :roll:

[patmc16]

chdahs, thanks for asking the questions that probably everyone who read the previous post would ask. When I read it I thought the gist of the story might be correct but I knew for sure the locations & franchises being mentioned were wrong. How the heck did Dallas & Peoria get pulled into the story? The Utah francise moving to Orlando? Maybe I could see that, but Dallas was never, nor are they now, with San Antonio or Peoria. Until this year, the San Antonio franchise has been with Florida since becoming the Rampage. Prior to that, they were the Adirondack Red Wings, affiliated with Detroit. I could go on, but I think you covered all of the bases.

The "reliable source in Utah" appears to not have a clue.

[chdahs]

not a problem, pat :)