New PBL Web Site Is Up

[Jimmytwotimes]

Looks ok, good to see the new teams logo's up.

[psbf]

It is, but why do they have Las Vegas logo when they don't have a team in the standings?

[Juniper]

So Chuck does work for the league. Congrats Chuck. I will say this, I have never seen The Doc and Mr. Doyle. In my opinion just by looking at there picture. Doc appears to be the PR guy. Mr Doyle looks like a tough guy, that likes to intimadate. Site does look good. Adam has to be behind this fine job. He is the best on the PBL staff.

[misenern]

Hm. Looks pretty terrible, to be honest. Sloppy graphics work and a choppy looking and poorly laid out design. Lame.

What was the point of getting a new website anyway?

[psbf]

Are you sure you're looking at the same site, Misenern?

[bluenoser]

What's the new website? pblproball.com looks the same to me?

[LightningMan]

What's the new website? pblproball.com looks the same to me?
Wilmington, Battle Creek, and Reading are all gone from the new site. If you still see those three, dump your browser cache and try again.

[Jimmytwotimes]

Hm. Looks pretty terrible, to be honest. Sloppy graphics work and a choppy looking and poorly laid out design. Lame.

What was the point of getting a new website anyway?

Some of it is ok, but the meet the league section is hard to read and in the standings they have the Vermont Frost Heaves name screwed up. The logo's aren't that clear either. Does anyone else have that?

[psbf]

I just noticed that, in the standings. It looks like someone's spell checker quit on them.

[misenern]

Some of it is ok, but the meet the league section is hard to read and in the standings they have the Vermont Frost Heaves name screwed up. The logo's aren't that clear either. Does anyone else have that?

Yeah, the logos in the top header are low res and some are stretched. That's sloppy.

I will admit I am holding the site to a higher standard. But this is a professional sports league. The new site isbetter than the ABA site, but it should be better than it is.

[Smash]

Yeah, I have to agree. I found the old site much easier to navigate. This version looks too cluttered and low-res.

[wellington]

Not that impressed.

[CHris902]

Yeah, this website is worse than the previous one in terms of both aesthetics and functionality. I think they need to concentrate on updating it regularly rather than overhauling it entirely. Everything looks fuzzy and super low resolution. A lot of the text looks small and unreadable on my laptop, has anyone tried to access it on a portable device like a blackberry or iPhone? Does it have a separate handheld device website? There are also a fair number of inoperable links.

I also don't understand how Dantus is going to be the web master and the GM for the Greenhawks. How is the dude possibly going to have time for that. They need to either hire a dedicated webmaster or just pay Chuck more to take over those duties as well.

[LightningMan]

While Webmaster isn't necessarily a full time job, it's enough of a job that someone with a full time job, like a GM, shouldn't take it on too.

[Ken, Steelheads fan]

...

I also don't understand how Dantus is going to be the web master and the GM for the Greenhawks. How is the dude possibly going to have time for that. They need to either hire a dedicated webmaster or just pay Chuck more to take over those duties as well.

...or the PBL could have sat out the season to get their collective acts together, like I suggested back in the spring. Besides, the economy is absolutely sour. If the D-League can figure out the dire situation with the economy WITH the backing of the NBA, then you think the PBL would watch CNN as well. This quote from Dan Reed, president of the D-League, taken from a D-League thread:

...

The new Springfield team sold for just over $2 million, but the league isn’t banking just yet on aggressive expansion plans during the struggling economy. Last year, the D-League shuttered its Anaheim and Colorado franchises and replaced them with the Springfield and Portland teams. The D-League also added a franchise in Frisco, Texas, in suburban Dallas, but that team won’t begin play until the 2010-11 season.

“Our team valuations have quadrupled in the past few years,” Reed said. “Over time we will continue to grow, but we are happy with the current footprint.”

Last season, the D-League had an average attendance of 2,713 fans a game, down 3 percent from the 2007-08 average of 2,813, an all-time high for the league. So far this year season-ticket sales are flat and team sponsorship revenue has had a percentage drop in the single digits, but Reed would not disclose the specific decline. All D-League teams sell their own inventory.

...


Call it what you want, me not being objective enough...whatever. The PBL is a bad excuse for a league. Why sugar-coat the situation???

[misenern]

...or the PBL could have sat out the season to get their collective acts together, like I suggested back in the spring. Besides, the economy is absolutely sour.

I am not convinced that "taking a year off" is a good move for a league and its teams still trying to establish themselves. In fact, it seems like a terrible move. It would kill a lot of fan interest, and any confidence that sponsors may have had would be gone down the drain.

I am also not sure why the league would need to take a year off to get its act together anyway. They have a huge offseason which is really should be enough to tweak the problems that they do have, should they decide they actually need to.

[Ken, Steelheads fan]

What fan interest? What sponsor confidence? These are the people getting hammered by the economy.

[CHris902]

Name three teams which have lost major sponsors due to th economy.

[LightningMan]

I am not convinced that "taking a year off" is a good move for a league and its teams still trying to establish themselves. In fact, it seems like a terrible move. It would kill a lot of fan interest, and any confidence that sponsors may have had would be gone down the drain.
Taking the year off is code around sports for "folding but not announcing it yet." Few teams take the year off and come back. The AFL took the year off and now looks like they'll take a whole bunch more. It does not send a good message to take the year off, period. It is actually worse for you than starting from scratch because you've built up bad will by stopping play.

What fan interest? What sponsor confidence? These are the people getting hammered by the economy.
Everyone is getting hammered by the economy, but if you go out of business (or take the year off), then you're really hammered by the economy because you have nothing coming in. You have to find a way to make it work within the economy you're in.

And of course there is fan interest, Ken. Granted none of these teams have the following of the Cleveland Cavaliers or Los Angeles Lakers, but there are butts in the seats.

My granddaughter is disappointed that she'll have to wait until the spring to see the Sea Dawgs and she's only seven. I'm glad that I didn't have to tell her they won't be playing anymore.

Name three teams which have lost major sponsors due to th economy.
Ken can't do it because he's not on the inside of any of this, but I wouldn't dismiss that some sponsors have curbed their support or denied it entirely. All of NASCAR is concerned about what's going to happen to Chevy and Dodge on the circuit, now that they've got government strings attached.

So it's possible that a sponsor or two broke with a team. But what you do is you make sure you have a great product to sell and go out and get another sponsor. You have to always be selling. That's a major point of business, even when times are fat. And when times are hard, you have to make sure you have a great product because it's hard to sell crap.

[Ken, Steelheads fan]

Name three teams which have lost major sponsors due to th economy.

Any teams, right??? I'm going to give you more than three teams if you don't limit me to the PBL. The PBL needs to have major sponsors first before they can lose them.

...and don't forget the sponsors that won't TOUCH a league like the PBL because league-wide attendance figures aren't kept. Sponsors that will avoid you like the plague can't be lost either. Please bear with me. I'll need some minutes on this.

[Smash]

I don't know about any other teams in the league, but the Halifax Rainmen just signed on with their biggest national sponsor yet: Rogers Wireless Communication.

They also diligently keep track of attendance stats throughout the course of the season.

[CHris902]

Obviously I mean three of the teams currently in the PBL. And "common sense" are not a team.

[LightningMan]

I don't know about any other teams in the league, but the Halifax Rainmen just signed on with their biggest national sponsor yet: Rogers Wireless Communication.

They also diligently keep track of attendance stats throughout the course of the season.
Speaking of which, it appears that the Sea Dawgs take attendance, they just don't release it.

[misenern]

I don't know about any other teams in the league, but the Halifax Rainmen just signed on with their biggest national sponsor yet: Rogers Wireless Communication.

They also diligently keep track of attendance stats throughout the course of the season.

Yeah, and you think Rogers would even touch a team or a league that "takes a year off" whenever times are hard? To answer my own question, hell no.

It's a short-term solution with long-term consequences. Legit businesses don't "take a break". It's almost a laughably stupid concept.

I am not a PBL cheerleader, but let's get real here.

[Ken, Steelheads fan]

Name three teams which have lost major sponsors due to th economy.

It's a global economy, so let's start with soccer team West Ham United losing major sponsor XL and Manchester United ALMOST losing AIG until the U.S. government bailed AIG out: http://www.findingdulcinea.com/news/sports/September-08/Sports-Sponsorships-Suffer-with-the-Economy.html

A little closer to home, the almighty Yankees have lost GM as a sponsor: http://money.cnn.com/2009/02/18/magazines/fortune/birger_baseball.fortune/index.htm?postversion=2009021905
...And as bad as 2009 looks, Chicago White Sox owner Jerry Reinsdorf thinks 2010 could be worse if corporations keep cutting back. "Virtually every team is losing sponsors," Reinsdorf says.
2010 could be worse??? Hmmmm. Virtually every team is losing sponsors??? Well heck, that's more than three teams right there.

How about more?
Under Armour pulled out of a five-year sponsorship deal with the Chicago Cubs:
http://www.findingdulcinea.com/news/sports/2009/jan/Economy-s-Toll-on-Sports-Sponsorships-Evident-in-Cubs-Under-Armour-Dispute-.html
Under Armour appears to be another victim of the economic crunch, reporting worse-than-expected fourth-quarter numbers on Jan. 15. As a result, company shares fell about 15 percent, according to Reuters.

The owner of the Cubs is suffering financially as well: the bankrupt Tribune Co. has put the team up for sale. On Friday, Tom Ricketts, the head of a Chicago investment bank, was chosen as the highest bidder for the Cubs, clearing the way for him to buy the team.

Okay, golf is not a team sport (unless it's something like the Ryder Cup or something). However, an entire tournament went away when GM went bankrupt. The Buick Open went away because GM (Buick) refused to sponsor it. http://www.insidegolf.ca/content/view/107809/998/

Let's look at a former 2009 PBL franchises. Battle Creek publicly cited a bad economy for going away. Enough said. Augusta mentioned something about sponsors talking then not producing, but how do you trust the word of a person who bounces checks around town?

[Ken, Steelheads fan]

Obviously I mean three of the teams currently in the PBL. And "common sense" are not a team.

Oh, oh. Now you want to nitpick...again. Okay, let's speak about the word obviously. Obviously, if the big boys are losing major sponsors by the bushel then small fry like each and every PBL team are also losing (and/or can't find) sponsors.

Yeah, and you think Rogers would even touch a team or a league that "takes a year off" whenever times are hard? To answer my own question, hell no.

It's a short-term solution with long-term consequences. Legit businesses don't "take a break". It's almost a laughably stupid concept.

I am not a PBL cheerleader, but let's get real here.

Whenever times are hard??? This is still the worse recession imaginable. Not many people were around during the Great Depression, or if they were around they were too young to make sense of it. Laughable?!? Sitting the season out is a viable option when faced with the certain prospects of low ticket sales and almost non existent sponsorship contracts. Rogers Communications is faced with the same economic realities as every other business. Would they say "hell no" to a league that sat out to weather the storm? Well, they said "hell yes" to a team with sketchy attendance numbers. Where are the official league numbers (rhetorical question)?

...and you're wrong about businesses NOT ceasing operations during bad times and restarting later. The most obvious example is construction companies. Here is another example of a company doing the whole nine yards to stay afloat. It's laying off workers, cutting pay and yes, shutting down periodically. http://www.siliconbeat.com/2009/02/12/aehr-test-systems-to-lay-off-cut-pay-and-shutdown-periodically/

[Jimmytwotimes]

Oh, oh. Now you want to nitpick...again. Okay, let's speak about the word obviously. Obviously, if the big boys are losing major sponsors by the bushel then small fry like each and every PBL team are also losing (and/or can't find) sponsors.



Whenever times are hard??? This is still the worse recession imaginable. Not many people were around during the Great Depression, or if they were around they were too young to make sense of it. Laughable?!? Sitting the season out is a viable option when faced with the certain prospects of low ticket sales and almost non existent sponsorship contracts. Rogers Communications is faced with the same economic realities as every other business. Would they say "hell no" to a league that sat out to weather the storm? Well, they said "hell yes" to a team with sketchy attendance numbers. Where are the official league numbers (rhetorical question)?

...and you're wrong about businesses NOT ceasing operations during bad times and restarting later. The most obvious example is construction companies. Here is another example of a company doing the whole nine yards to stay afloat. It's laying off workers, cutting pay and yes, shutting down periodically. http://www.siliconbeat.com/2009/02/12/aehr-test-systems-to-lay-off-cut-pay-and-shutdown-periodically/

I think you have officially lost your mind!!!!! Gotta love you examples about sponsorship pulling out too. Did you really bring the Yankees into this. come on.

[Ken, Steelheads fan]

I think you have officially lost your mind!!!!! Gotta love you examples about sponsorship pulling out too. Did you really bring the Yankees into this. come on.

Sure, had to bring out the big guns. If the Yankees are worrying, then it's time for ALL sports organizations to reevaluate their situations.

[CHris902]

Oh, oh. Now you want to nitpick...again.

It's not "nitpicking" to ask that if you're going to claim that PBL teams are losing sponsorship across the board that you actually provide examples from the PBL.

[misenern]

Hm. Aehr Test Systems? Never heard of them. But I am not sure these are the guys you want to base your business strategy on. I see they are listed as a penny stock (what the ABA was once listed as). That comes with this little warning:

CAUTION

Penny stocks are any stock that trades below $ 5 per share. Most financial advisor's and long term investors tend to avoid them completely because of the extremely high risk that comes with owning them. Generally, if a stock is trading that low, it is danger of losing its listing with an exchange. When this happens, a company is normally either in very bad financial shape, or on the brink of bankruptcy. Smart investors opt to avoid these.

I would hope that the PBL and its team strive to be better than a random construction company that sounds like it is falling apart.

PS. Are the Yankees considering taking a year off? No, because that would be completely nuts.

[Ken, Steelheads fan]

Hm. Aehr Test Systems? Never heard of them. But I am not sure these are the guys you want to base your business strategy on. I see they are listed as a penny stock (what the ABA was once listed as). That comes with this little warning:



I would hope that the PBL and its team strive to be better than a random construction company that sounds like it is falling apart.

PS. Are the Yankees considering taking a year off? No, because that would be completely nuts.

Not many people in the States have heard of Rogers Wireless Communications either. Are you making a point? Aehr Test Systems employs One hundred Twenty-three people (when they're not laying them off). They are not a construction company. They test IC chips. I used construction companies as an example because it is not uncommon for a construction company to go into hibernation until good times return. Businesses do what they have to do to survive. My friend works for a private employment service in downtown Chicago. They find executives for corporate clients. Well, the clients haven't enlisted their services in over a year now because of the economy. The employment service sent all the associates home, broke its office lease, and vowed not to return downtown until the economy picks up. She's been out since January.

The Yankees??? Take the year off??? The primary source of income for many people (directly and indirectly) depends on the Yankees. That's hundreds of millions of dollars. How many people depend on the PBL as their primary source of income??? Which brings me back to the topic of this thread. Why continue to throw away money when there isn't enough thrown toward a good website? Step back, fix the website, look for travel partners in Canada (like they should be doing anyway), find a public relations director and for Pete Sakes. Learn how to perform due diligence. Taking time off doesn't mean taking time to do nothing. Sometimes stepping back is actually a step toward reaching a goal.

[misenern]

Not many people in the States have heard of Rogers Wireless Communications either. Are you making a point? Aehr Test Systems employs One hundred Twenty-three people (when they're not laying them off). They are not a construction company. They test IC chips.

Here is my point - Aehr Test Systems is a relatively small and completely obscure company. They also sound like they are finically sketched out. These guys are the exception, not the rule. I will take it even further, they look like a company you do not want to emulate. And these guys aren't even close to being on the same level as Rogers is. Rogers employs about 29,000 odd people. 100 people? And we are even considering this company as an example of anything? I stand by what I said earlier - legit businesses don't take a year off. Small-time construction operates in a completely different realm than minor league sports and once again, it's the exception to the rule. If you are looking for fan support or sponsorship you would be nuts to just drop everything for a year.

Which brings me back to the topic of this thread. Why continue to throw away money when there isn't enough thrown toward a good website? Step back, fix the website, look for travel partners in Canada (like they should be doing anyway), find a public relations director and for Pete Sakes. Learn how to perform due diligence. Taking time off doesn't mean taking time to do nothing. Sometimes stepping back is actually a step toward reaching a goal.

Taking a year off and doing these things isn't mutually exclusive. The season is three months long. And it would absolutely kill the league's credibility and kill the teams that actually have fans and are growing. The league's problem isn't that it has a bloated payroll; they don't need more cuts. They need more staff. They need to spend their money in the right places. The offseason is long enough if they actually wanted to get things in order. But killing a season and any momentum that your markets have is, like I said before, a short-term solution with long-term consequences.

But really, we agree on the issues at hand for the most part. I just think your solution is nuts.

[Ken, Steelheads fan]

Aehr Test Systems is not a legit business??? A corporation that is even capable of laying off 123 employees is not legit (down to 83 employees now)??? http://moneycentral.msn.com/companyreport?symbol=AEHR&pkw=PI&vendor=Paid+Inclusion&OCID=iSEMPI&crea=pi-money

We're just going around and around on this. I've provided multiple links, quotes, and examples (personal and otherwise) to support my statements yet all I get is "Oh come on Ken!" type responses instead of backing up your statements.

Here is another example before I stop going around and around (and I think I've used this example in the past). The CBA went away completely during the 2000-2001 season. They returned for the 2001-2002 season, but teams like the Yakima Sun Kings and the Idaho Stampede did not return. They took more than a year off before returning to basketball. Afterward, Yakima had a rather long run and Idaho is still playing.


...

Taking a year off and doing these things isn't mutually exclusive. The season is three months long. And it would absolutely kill the league's credibility and kill the teams that actually have fans and are growing...

How can you support your statements in the face of living examples to the contrary?!?

[misenern]

Aehr Test Systems is not a legit business??? A corporation that is even capable of laying off 123 employees is not legit (down to 83 employees now)??? http://moneycentral.msn.com/companyreport?symbol=AEHR&pkw=PI&vendor=Paid+Inclusion&OCID=iSEMPI&crea=pi-money

We're just going around and around on this. I've provided multiple links, quotes, and examples (personal and otherwise) to support my statements yet all I get is "Oh come on Ken!" type responses instead of backing up your statements.

Here is another example before I stop going around and around (and I think I've used this example in the past). The CBA went away completely during the 2000-2001 season. They returned for the 2001-2002 season, but teams like the Yakima Sun Kings and the Idaho Stampede did not return. They took more than a year off before returning to basketball. Afterward, Yakima had a rather long run and Idaho is still playing.

How can you support your statements in the face of living examples to the contrary?!?

Examples?? Of what, businesses that are not taking the year off?? That's too easy. Look around you. Either way, it's ridiculous for you to ask. You are the one proposing a new course of action; the burden of proof falls on you. And sorry, your argument is completely unconvincing.

So, one sketched-out, obscure company decides to operate whenever they feel like it. Wow. Let's follow their lead. It looks like it's really working out for them. And I'm not sure how you are saying the collapse of CBA was anything remotely similar to what's going on in the PBL right now. And Yakima folded anyway.

Anyway, you're right. This is just going around and around. Taking a year off sounds like a completely terrible plan and your argument just isn't strong enough for me.

[ABARedWhiteBlue]

Taking a year off sounds like a completely terrible plan and your argument just isn't strong enough for me.

Well - there is another more relevant example out there of an organization taking a year off.

The NJ Nets...

http://www.nolandgrab.org/images/nets_wreckingball.gif

[CHris902]

Well played.

To take it a step further: they're pulling the classic minor league move and taking a year off to "build a new stadium which will help rejuvinate the local economy." Oh, and their local owner is most likely a criminal.