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View Full Version : D-League model does not work so far


not so fast
10-20-2009, 08:48 AM
Well after several years now, the D-league approach to minorleague basketball is a failure.

The fact is, the way it was run for all those years by the CBA was a much better approach.

Fans could identify so well with their teams, and players. Coaches and organzizations had way more say.

I am not sure why we even have the D league. When I look at the CBA like in 2002, It was a much stronger league than the D league is today. It averages more fans, had more exciting basketball, had more players called up, and better coaching, had great venues, and had a more national appeal.

The NBA would have been smarter to just write a check to the CBA then, and say keep doing what you are doing. But apparently their egos got in the way and they thought they could do it better. Now they are pumping millions of dollars in a poor product that is not developing players at all.

Well it appears that the D-league has lost a lot of franchises and move to different areas of the country as well as some of the other leagues, and these other leagues don't have the power and influence and money of the NBA behind them.

Why are they still sharing franchsies? I don't get it. By now, each team should have their own minorleague team. And too that point, if two NBA teams are sharing a franchise, and they both send their young point guard to their shared d league team, which point guard plays? And what if the coach of the D league team does not like either of the point guards that were sent, and has one that he likes, who would play then? And if the NBA teams sends down a point guard, and he does not play, then whats the purpose of the D league?

Just wondering.

ottawasportsfan2010
10-20-2009, 09:18 AM
What you have to keep in mind is exciting games does not alwas mean players are developing.

minorleagfan09
10-20-2009, 04:26 PM
from a purely financial prospective nsf has a point. would have been cheaper to just write a check to the CBA. I actually wish the NBA would buy the CBA and make it sort of a rival league to the NBDL. Give them some NBA affliates and let the CBA play the NBDL in the finals. But then again I wish they'd lower the age limit to 18 and expand the draft to 3 rounds. Probably not going to happen.

panchess
10-22-2009, 12:31 PM
If I was setting up the D-League, I would have four "pods," one in each time zone, and run a form a extended spring training in each location with four teams in each pod. Have games on the weekend, but practice and train as a group during the week. Unless you needed a veteran for some reason (i.e. not enough centers), limit the D-League to players 25 and under as of October 1.

If you want to mix it up, have the pods play against each other in occassional three-day quadruple-headers. Teams can send down players and keep their rights as they do now.

The pods would be in cities that are reasonably central, but don't have NBA cities now. My choices? Richmond, VA; Nashville, Albuquequrue, NM; and Bakersfield, CA.

Costs would be much lower, and you likely would get more true player development.

panchess
10-22-2009, 12:34 PM
The reason teams share D-League affiliations is simple: there aren't enough prospects in the D-League for most teams to justify their own minor league team. The same problem existed in the NFL with NFL Europe, and the result was not enough buy-in to keep the league going.

Baseball and hockey are different. Most of their players spend some time in the minors before debuting in the big leagues.

minorleagfan09
10-22-2009, 02:23 PM
The reason teams share D-League affiliations is simple: there aren't enough prospects in the D-League for most teams to justify their own minor league team.

I strongly disagree. The talent is easily there for a strong minor league system. The difference is minor league baseball and minor league hockey develop their own talent. The problem is the NBA's position and relationship with NCAA basketball. Agents and players are working around it now. Heck a kid skipped his senior year of high school to play in Israel. The whole damn argument was these kids (must just be basketball kids... and not hockey and baseball kids) need to go to school to learn and develop. Well now because of this age rule the best might not even finish high school. Well done David Stern.

SignGuyDino
10-22-2009, 04:22 PM
I think from the point of player development, the D-League is doing exactly what the NBA wants it to do. Some teams are seeing the value of owning their own team (The Lakers come to mind). One really good role player is worth the investment of a D-League team.

The problems come in the fact that the D-League plays in venues simply too big attendence-wise, and Stern is too proud to have games in small college venues until the attendence picks up to justify. Streetball was hot as can be until it got to the big big big venues. Killed all the atmosphere. It went to the biggest venues too soon.

This is no different than the WNBA. The reasons the NBA is willing to subsidize them is they need programming in the summer on NBATV. The D-League has a similar function.

I'd be more concerned with the officials that come out of the D-League. As we saw in the exhibition games, they call fouls way too often. Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing bang-bang plays get no call either way.

I personally think, like the WNBA, each NBA team should own a D-League team, have 4 regional leagues with a shorter schedule, and then have playoffs to minimize costs. They should either play games at small venues or before NBA games.

Former ABA'er
10-22-2009, 05:22 PM
First of all, 20% of all NBA players have spent sometime in the D League. If a team has the number 1 or 2 pick in the draft, that player had better be ready to play and contribute from day one. However, a mid first round or second round selection or a free agent acquisition may not be ready. Do you think that player would develop faster if they stays with the NBA club, attends practice, comes to games in street cloths or goes to the D League, plays 35 or 40 minutes per game 3 days a week with NBA refs, quality opposition, with NBA rules and under NBA quality coaching? The D League is set up to allow for a great deal of practice time. Once the NBA season starts, most everyday is a game day or a travel day in the NBA. There are very few practice sessions after training camp is over. Young players need practice to improve. The D League only plays 50 games in about the same time period that the NBA plays 81. This allows for many practice and training sessions each week. Players can go back and forth from the NBA to the D League up to three time per season. This allows the parent club to keep close watch on the development of the player and the areas the player needs to work on.
The D League is also important to the NBA to develop coaches, trainers, referees, front office personnel, broadcasters etc. This is as important to the NBA as the player development side. The D League is still relatively new. Many teams are just starting to learn how to use their affiliate. One day each NBA team WILL have a one on one relationship with their D League franchise. It is important to expand slowly and carefully so ownership groups that come into the league are properly vetted, otherwise the D League could be a disaster with no future like the ABA. In a few years the D League will have 30 healthy and competent franchises.

Pounder
10-22-2009, 06:30 PM
I don't expect the D to ever really be a ticket-selling model when done RIGHT. On this point, nsf is right.

However, contracting a CBA means the player is essentially learning to street-ball, to win THAT league when developing is the higher priority. The NBA is watching Europe and coming around.

The NCAA is watching Europe and starting to realize that if men's hoops are to remain a sort-of cash cow, they better loosen eligibility restrictions. http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=4579737

It'll be interesting to see what happens next.

not so fast
10-22-2009, 07:14 PM
former abaer, I would question your point that 20 percent of NBA players spent time in the D league. That is simply not true.

There is no one on the Bulls or the Bucks roster last season or this season that spent time in the D league, at least the official final roster.

Can you please name me the 2 out of 10 NBA players that were in the D league?

misenern
10-22-2009, 08:11 PM
From: http://www.nba.com/dleague/reno/dleague_draft_set_for_nov_5_2009_10_07.html

A proven developer of talent, 20 percent of players in the NBA at the conclusion of the 2008-09 season boasted NBA D-League experience...

Just sayin'.

not so fast
10-22-2009, 11:58 PM
Tell them to produce the list. You got to watch how they worded the line. At the conclusion. Does that mean players from the d league was added at the end just to promote the league? Or were they actual players that teams wanted?

Also, what was percent at the beginning of the season with opening day rosters?

The d-league is as bad as the NBA at giving out marketing illusions. For instance, how many NBA players really do work in their respected communities? very few, certainly a far cry from what david sterns and his crew would have you believe.

And one more thing, how come the D league screens players so carefully, but A NBA player could have committed murder and still play.

all I know is the NBA is subsidising two very bad leagues, the D-league and the WNBA. they both really suck, when you consider they have the NBA behind them.

Former ABA'er
10-23-2009, 04:50 PM
Remember that most every team in the NBA as of last season carried a 15 man roster. 12 active players and three additional player on the nonactive roster. That's 450 players. Over 90 of those players had spent time in the D League. The important thing to consider is that the D League is still evolving. The affiliate program is only three years old. Many NBA general managers did not use their affiliate in the first few years, but are now seeing the value of sending players to the D League to gain valuable game experience that they simply would never get with the parent club during the season. Do you think that Andrew Bynum would have been better off never playing any significant minutes as a Lakers 17 year old rookie, or spending some time with the D Fenders playing under game conditions in Staples Center before 10 or 12 Lakers games? They allowed Jordan Farmar as a seldom used rookie to play three times for the D Fenders and he also played for the Lakers the same day. Even the Lakers did not know how to use their affiliate three years ago, and they owned the team. You are correct that the D League model needs some changes. The parent club should have TOTAL responsibility for the basketball operations, both operationally and financially. That will happen when every NBA team has a one on one relationship with their D League affiliate. That cost savings will make every D League team instantly profitable. This is all going to happen in a matter of time.

nksports
10-24-2009, 01:52 AM
That cost savings will make every D League team instantly profitable. This is all going to happen in a matter of time.

I doubt that would happen, but it doesn't even need to. In baseball, teams don't really make money by paying minor league players or coaches, but the entire minor league system of a team usually costs less than the cost of one superstar player. The budget of a D-League team probably comes to under the cost of one bench player.

You don't have to make money because the long-term benefits are so high.

bdyer
10-24-2009, 08:23 PM
There is no one on the Bulls or the Bucks roster last season or this season that spent time in the D league, at least the official final roster.Off the top of my head, Demetris Nichols, Ramon Sessions and Eddie Gill were D-League players at some point. The press release counts players that played in the D-League at some time in their careers, not just last season.

Here's the list of players with D-League experience that are/were in NBA training camps this season. You can pick out the ones that remain.

http://www.nba.com/dleague/news/training_camp_rosters_2009.html

As for your comparison to the CBA; I find that entertaining because that CBA no longer exists. It was sold to someone who wanted to make it the NBA's developmental league. I do agree that there are many problems with the D-League, but I think its general spirit of experimentation in an attempt to find an approach or multiple approaches that do work.

not so fast
10-25-2009, 03:33 PM
The notion that the D league is developing players like minor league baseball does is just plain silly. And these phony names on a list where most of these guys did not play for any substantial time in the D league, then was called up is just another illusion. I am not buying it, but you are welcome to it.

And again, research and see how many players were called up from the D league in 2002-03 season, then how many were called up by the CBA. Then check the Average attendance of all the teams in both leagues. Then research and see the large international contracts players out of the CBA recieved that year compared to the D league.

I guess success is the eye of the beholder. The fact remains, in spite of how well the CBA was doing, it could not compete with the money of the NBA, which helped the d league. If the D-league was left to stand on its own, it would have lasted one season!

On the other hand, if the NBA had given the CBA just half of the dollars in 03 that it gave the D league, the CBA would be rolling along so well, we never would have needed a d league.

Again I ask you, whats the purpose of the d league, if each team does not have their own franchise. What you really have is a watered down version of the former CBA.

panchess
10-25-2009, 07:02 PM
I would agree with the general notion that the D-League isn't a finished product yet.

It makes sense more D-League players would be in the NBA at the end of the season for two reasons: injury replacements and teams out of the playoffs making callups to "see what they got."

Especially with the recession, I think it's likely the NBA will try to shrink rosters formally to save money. Most of the teams aren't carrying 15 to start the season anyway. Having more leeway to use the D-League will help with that roster shrinkage, and save quite a bit of cash.

bdyer
10-25-2009, 08:40 PM
The notion that the D league is developing players like minor league baseball does is just plain silly. And these phony names on a list where most of these guys did not play for any substantial time in the D league, then was called up is just another illusion. I am not buying it, but you are welcome to it.Phony names?

LOL

That's rich. Tell us all which names are phony.

And again, research and see how many players were called up from the D league in 2002-03 season, then how many were called up by the CBA. Then check the Average attendance of all the teams in both leagues. Then research and see the large international contracts players out of the CBA recieved that year compared to the D league.How about you do that since you made the contention.

I guess success is the eye of the beholder. The fact remains, in spite of how well the CBA was doing, it could not compete with the money of the NBA, which helped the d league. If the D-league was left to stand on its own, it would have lasted one season!How well was the CBA doing that it sold itself to one man for a few million?

On the other hand, if the NBA had given the CBA just half of the dollars in 03 that it gave the D league, the CBA would be rolling along so well, we never would have needed a d league.How much did each league have to work with? You seem to have all the numbers available to you, so let's see them.

Again I ask you, whats the purpose of the d league, if each team does not have their own franchise. What you really have is a watered down version of the former CBA.You want an instant 30-team league? Was the CBA ever that big? Single team affiliations are a goal, but so is sustainable growth. It's easy to bash the D-League and pine for the good ol' days -- but were they really that good?

Sorry, you just seem like a hater with an axe to grind. There were only a very few CBA teams that were really viable long term. With the multiple models of ownership now in place, more D-League franchises have that potential. I think many owners had ridiculous expectations of their teams, and some markets were simply a joke. However, all the games were played and all the teams made it to the end of the season. Can any other league say the same?

The 2009 D-League has little in common with the 2003 D-League. Just as the 2009 CBA....well....doesn't exist at all. There is a lot to be learned from the successes and the ultimate failure of the CBA, as well as the successes and failures of the D-League.

You can save your autopsy for the CBA though. The one you are trying to conduct for the D-League is premature.

not so fast
10-26-2009, 11:36 AM
You are welcome to be an apologist for the d league all you want. All I am saying is the with all of its resources and all of its influence, the NBA developmental league has really not been any more effective than the old CBA. That is just a fact.

I would hope the D league would be run more efficient by now, and after all these years, it is still the invisible league. You even have the NBA channel (network) trying its best to push it, and it still is a failure, certainly when you consider what has been invested, versus what is being produced. If the D league was a true company in America, the CEO would be in trouble with the Stock holders.
All I know is some of the players that have been signed there are not very good. Second, some of the coach hirings are certainly questionable.

Even though I am an unashamed fan of the old CBA, I still wanted and still want the d league to be a success. but the fact is , it needs to be broken down and built up all over again. (remember the movie Hoosiers don't you ?)

The Arrogance of the NBA has cost them millions of wasted dollars.

For the record, many of top head coaches in the NBA came from the old CBA. Phil jackson, George karl, Flip Saunders.

bdyer
10-26-2009, 03:40 PM
You are welcome to be an apologist for the d league all you want. All I am saying is the with all of its resources and all of its influence, the NBA developmental league has really not been any more effective than the old CBA. That is just a fact.

I would hope the D league would be run more efficient by now, and after all these years, it is still the invisible league. You even have the NBA channel (network) trying its best to push it, and it still is a failure, certainly when you consider what has been invested, versus what is being produced. If the D league was a true company in America, the CEO would be in trouble with the Stock holders.How much has been invested? How much was invested in the failed CBA?

You make a lot of claims but never seem to back them up.

All I know is some of the players that have been signed there are not very good. Second, some of the coach hirings are certainly questionable.Great opinions. Based upon what? Your knowledge of who you think should have made the teams?

Even though I am an unashamed fan of the old CBA, I still wanted and still want the d league to be a success. but the fact is , it needs to be broken down and built up all over again. (remember the movie Hoosiers don't you ?)Life isn't a movie. The I would argue that the league does that on the fly. If you think the D-League is doing things the same as they did in 2003, you're simply mistaken. There are several models of ownership and operations that are being followed or tried out. It's interesting to follow, if nothing else.

The Arrogance of the NBA has cost them millions of wasted dollars.There you go again. How many millions? How much money did the owners of the CBA ultimately lose?

For the record, many of top head coaches in the NBA came from the old CBA. Phil jackson, George karl, Flip Saunders.For the record, so what? If you want to cite those three out of the entire number of coaches that coached in the CBA, would you consider them the rule or the exception?

Look, the D-League has had and has major issues, but the main thing it has over all other minor basketball leagues is credibility. It has maintained that credibility because all their teams play all their games and make it to the end of the season. That takes more money than apparently has ever been required of owners in the other leagues, and will lead to losses in less successful markets. No one else has figured out that this is the bare minimum of legitimacy required to to enable a minor league team to ask for money from a basketball fan. Until the other leagues make this their policy and follow through, they have no business criticizing the D-League.

bectond
10-26-2009, 10:05 PM
All the top NBA franchises (minus Portland and Detroit) have their own D-league affiliate. It's the bottom feeders that are sharing D-league franchises.

As I have stated before, you look for glue guys and shooters coming out the D-league. Not volume scorers, IMHO the D-league should draft / recruit more college stiffs and do what the NCAA can't do -develop bigs (other than Al Jefferson name another young post player with solid post moves), but that would require multi-year contracts and higher salaries.

not so fast
10-27-2009, 12:57 AM
Ok, you asked for it. I will tell a little more of the d-league crap if you like. I know of a player that had sent his bio and info into the office of the d league, and never got a call back or anything, and had good qualifications.

As soon as he talked to an agent that was friends of the d league office, he was put into their draft without question. This was so political, and blatant, even I was shocked that they don't really look for the best talent, its a buddy buddy system. And that is unfair to a lot of players who have talent, but that does not matter, cause they are not friends with the right people.

No one really understands the criteria of how this league works, how players are selected, how coaches are hired, it kind of reminds me of the olympics committee, or even worse the Nobel peace prize selection committee. It just makes up the criteria as they go along. What a real shame. Because that hurts the league.

I can only hope they look in the mirror and realize they are failing minorleague hoops dramatically. Just because they play all their games in a season does not make the league a success.

Some of you need to get off the d-league koolaid. This league has shunned some of the best talent in players and coaches over the several years in existance, because they are so bent on control.

And bdyer, since you are the self appointed spokesman for the d league, you tell me, what is the best player that has come form the d league after playing a whole season in the d league, and is now in the NBA? And what head coach has come from the dleague that is now a head coach in the NBA?..........Hmmmmm
So much for a development league.

preeths
10-27-2009, 11:36 AM
I think evidence suggests the NBA has lost a lot of the arrogance it once had in relation to the D-League. Remember, the NBA thought it could just slap different versions of the NBA logo on all the D-League teams and that would be enough to sell them with the locals. After correcting that mistake, they brought in a few groups that had a track record in minor league basketball. The NBA has taken some steps to correct its mistakes.

Players will always have complaints. Truth is there are many dozens if not hundreds of guys whose skill levels are close enough that they could spend some time in the D-League. I don't doubt that having an agent push really hard or approach someone he knows can help. Really, it's not that different from many other jobs where what you know makes you eligible, but who you know actually lands you the job.

minorleagfan09
10-27-2009, 12:16 PM
Players will always have complaints. Truth is there are many dozens if not hundreds of guys whose skill levels are close enough that they could spend some time in the D-League. I don't doubt that having an agent push really hard or approach someone he knows can help. Really, it's not that different from many other jobs where what you know makes you eligible, but who you know actually lands you the job.

This is true. What I don't like in NSF's example is that the player wasn't at least contacted. I'll assume NSF can tell someone good enough to maybe play in the D-League. At the very least the league should send out a thank you email (which can be scripted) and info on the nearest local tryout (if they honestly considered him and don't feel the need to add him to the draft).

This is just minor league basketball. If a D1 player contacts you (maybe with some pro experience) and because he doesn't know the secret handshake you don't get back to him... then I think you are a little to high on your horse for minor league basketball.

not so fast
10-27-2009, 01:05 PM
Thank you minorleaguefan09, a true voice of reason.

It is so glad to see someone else not drinking the d league koolaid.

preeths
10-27-2009, 01:30 PM
Wow, everybody must make some great Kool-Aid. We have ABA Kool-Aid drinkers, PBL Kool-Aid drinkers and apparently D-League Kool-Aid drinkers. Who would have thought that minor league basketball circuits could create such concoctions to create mindless followers everywhere?

Wait, what's that you say? All the leagues are struggling for paying fans and attention? Are they just not making enough Kool-Aid? Or is it possible that many of us have simply just chosen not to be completely cynical and write off a league for every perceived slight? Maybe the vast majority of us have been drinking water the entire time, while a handful of others have been choking down gallons of Metamucil. I can understand your pain, Metamucil drinkers, but just because we're less uncomfortable doesn't mean we're drinking happy juice.

Yes, if a league is folding teams in midseason, not paying people, flat out lying, etc., it deserves criticism. I don't think another league deserves the same harshness simply because a player or two is not getting the chance that some guy thinks he deserves, while the league is paying its bills and players in this climate for minor league basketball.

not so fast
10-27-2009, 02:43 PM
Au usual preeths, you miss the point. For all that the NBA has done for the dleague, it is still a failure. So to compare it to other failures does not change the facts of itw own terrible mismanagment.

Some of these other leagues you are refering too, would be doing great if they had the NBA backing.

bdyer
10-27-2009, 03:48 PM
Ok, you asked for it. I will tell a little more of the d-league crap if you like. I know of a player that had sent his bio and info into the office of the d league, and never got a call back or anything, and had good qualifications.

As soon as he talked to an agent that was friends of the d league office, he was put into their draft without question. This was so political, and blatant, even I was shocked that they don't really look for the best talent, its a buddy buddy system. And that is unfair to a lot of players who have talent, but that does not matter, cause they are not friends with the right people.

No one really understands the criteria of how this league works, how players are selected, how coaches are hired, it kind of reminds me of the olympics committee, or even worse the Nobel peace prize selection committee. It just makes up the criteria as they go along. What a real shame. Because that hurts the league.That fits my "hater with an axe to grind" criteria. It's a valid criticism, but you've let it distort your objectivity when it comes to other aspects of the league.

I can only hope they look in the mirror and realize they are failing minorleague hoops dramatically. Just because they play all their games in a season does not make the league a success.It makes them more of a success than any other league. If everyone else thinks it's so easy, why don't they do it?

Some of you need to get off the d-league koolaid. This league has shunned some of the best talent in players and coaches over the several years in existance, because they are so bent on control.Besides your anonymous friend, who else?

And bdyer, since you are the self appointed spokesman for the d league, you tell me, what is the best player that has come form the d league after playing a whole season in the d league, and is now in the NBA?I'd probably go with Kelenna Azubuike, Matt Barnes, Devin Brown or Mikki Moore, though technically I believe the the latter two played in the NBA for at least a couple of games those seasons. They were free agents in the D-League for at least 40 games however. Jamario Moon also played a full season in the D-League, but that was very early in his career. Of course there are guys like Chuck Hayes That played so well in the D-League they were called up to the NBA before they could complete a season and stuck.

I know -- "phony" names, right?And what head coach has come from the dleague that is now a head coach in the NBA?..........HmmmmmThere was one, but he's not there now. There have been at least 15 coaches from the D-League that have been made at least assistants in the NBA.
So much for a development league.I don't think there are any numbers that would satisfy you. You were given a direct link to players with D-League experience in NBA training camps and you said the names were "phony." You refused or were unable to back up any of the claims you made, so I'm not sure what purpose this rather one-sided conversation is going to accomplish.

I acknowledge the past and present problems of the D-League. I think it was real mess when it came to Austin five years ago, and there were real embarrassments last season (the business failure of the league champion, the lack of a trainer to close out the season in Albuquerque -- thank goodness SW Basketball is done). Those don't overshadow the successes and the generally positive direction of the league in my mind, but I didn't have any acquaintances that were allegedly snubbed by the league. Sorry.

I look forward to seeing if the PBL or the Texas ABA teams can complete a season this time around. I know the D-League will.

preeths
10-27-2009, 08:55 PM
Au usual preeths, you miss the point. For all that the NBA has done for the dleague, it is still a failure. So to compare it to other failures does not change the facts of itw own terrible mismanagment.

Some of these other leagues you are refering too, would be doing great if they had the NBA backing.

And as usual, you take an overly negative view, just as you did with the PBL a few months back. No, it's not a failure just because you didn't like the fact that some player you knew had to go through other channels to get into the league. The D-League is what it is. Like a lot of minor leagues, sure, you can't declare it a success. It's a work in progress.

not so fast
10-27-2009, 11:24 PM
As usual, guys like you cant accept criticism of your pet leagues, and turn every critique, into a personal vendetta.

First of all, the player who that happened to, this was 3 years ago. That young man actually ended up on a NBA summer league team, so I have no ax to grind.

I just pointed out that after all of these years, and all the money, support, and power and influence of the NBA, That the D league, should be by now, as credible of a minorleague system, as at least the "double A" system of minorleague baseball. And that is something I know a little about, do to the fact I was an area scout for the New York Mets back in the 80's.

The notion that it I should sit buy and sing kumbaya, just because you say it takes time is nonsense. They, the NBDL, were the ones that came flying on their saviour/warriors horses saying they were going to save minorleague basketball.

My original point really is a fact. If the NBA would have put money into the CBA, it would have been a better minorleague system for NBA by now than the Dleague is.

In the Bible it states, "when more is given more is expected".

bdyer
10-28-2009, 12:28 AM
As usual, guys like you cant accept criticism of your pet leagues, and turn every critique, into a personal vendetta.

First of all, the player who that happened to, this was 3 years ago. That young man actually ended up on a NBA summer league team, so I have no ax to grind.Three years isn't that long ago apparently.

I just pointed out that after all of these years, and all the money, support, and power and influence of the NBA, That the D league, should be by now, as credible of a minorleague system, as at least the "double A" system of minorleague baseball. And that is something I know a little about, do to the fact I was an area scout for the New York Mets back in the 80's.Then I guess you also know that the minor league system has been around for about 100 years or so. At the absolute low point during WWII, there were still 66 minor league teams. I'm willing to give the D-League a few more years than ten.

The notion that it I should sit buy and sing kumbaya, just because you say it takes time is nonsense.I have already stated some of the problems the D-League has and noted there are others, so your characterization is a false one. They, the NBDL, were the ones that came flying on their saviour/warriors horses saying they were going to save minorleague basketball.Did they? I'd probably like to see a link to that. I know they wanted a more stable minor league. So far, they have achieved that. Did they make a lot of mistakes? Yes. Do they seem to be headed in the right direction? Yes.

My original point really is a fact. If the NBA would have put money into the CBA, it would have been a better minorleague system for NBA by now than the Dleague is.It's an opinion backed up by nothing. It's possible that if they had gone with local and NBA team ownerships in the first place, things might be further along for them, but it appears the D-League works on a different financial plane than most pre-Isiah CBA owners could handle. I mean the CBA owners sold out to Isiah, who then refused to sell the CBA to the NBA because he didn't think he was making enough profit. The NBA moved on. The CBA you are lauding didn't exist after Thomas bought it, so there is no reason to pretend it should have become the basis for the D-League.

preeths
10-28-2009, 10:46 AM
As usual, guys like you cant accept criticism of your pet leagues, and turn every critique, into a personal vendetta.

First of all, the player who that happened to, this was 3 years ago. That young man actually ended up on a NBA summer league team, so I have no ax to grind.

I just pointed out that after all of these years, and all the money, support, and power and influence of the NBA, That the D league, should be by now, as credible of a minorleague system, as at least the "double A" system of minorleague baseball. And that is something I know a little about, do to the fact I was an area scout for the New York Mets back in the 80's.

The notion that it I should sit buy and sing kumbaya, just because you say it takes time is nonsense. They, the NBDL, were the ones that came flying on their saviour/warriors horses saying they were going to save minorleague basketball.

My original point really is a fact. If the NBA would have put money into the CBA, it would have been a better minorleague system for NBA by now than the Dleague is.

In the Bible it states, "when more is given more is expected".

I too would have liked to have seen the NBA take over the CBA. I think it would have been much better for the minor league game. But remember, the NBA tried. It was the CBA, under their great leader, that screwed it up and rejected the deal. The NBA then had to start from scratch and didn't do a good job initially. I believe they've learned a great deal and have made some adjustments. Sure, there are still improvements that need to be made.

Why do you have to draw battle lines? There isn't any need to call people "Kool-Aid drinkers" or to paint anyone who disagrees with you as some kind of blind loyalist. All I think most of us want to see is valid, measured criticism. Instead, some seem just so eager to throw the baby out with the bathwater whenever they see any problem. They'll ignore all the good about a league and focus on the bad. Then anyone who doesn't see it that way becomes the enemy. To be clear, I'm not saying ignore the bad, only that the criticism should be proportional to the problems. I don't see that here, and that's my issue, not that I think the D-League is flawless or couldn't be improved.

not so fast
10-28-2009, 11:16 AM
Preeths, for once I agree with you. But remember, I listen to Rush Limbaugh everyday, so I have this natural inclination to draw battle lines.

Okay, I am now about to get ready for the NBA season. Go Bulls!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

minorleagfan09
10-28-2009, 11:37 AM
apparently D-League Kool-Aid drinkers.

Well I'll say this. It is important to understand what the D-League is in relation to the rest of the minor league world. The ABA and such leagues set the bar so low it is easy for say the D-League to get a pass.

Kelenna Azubuike, Matt Barnes, Devin Brown or Mikki Moore... Any of them as good as John Starks was?

Those stars above are the shining example of D-League development (roleplayers... and scrubs). How many baseball All-stars or Hockey All-stars played minor league ball?

My local baseball team is profitable. The D-League team in my area... haha.

I have to admit I don't like many things about the D-League, but NBA teams are willing to pour their money into it (as well as a lot of independent owners).

There are a lot of things I don't like about the D-League though. Part of it is how the league is run, and the rest is Stern's relationship with NCAA basketball. As long as the NBA tries to force kids to go to school (while baseball doesn't) I'm not going to be happy.

But I'll give credit where credit is due... the team in Maine plays in the right kind of venue.

Pounder
10-28-2009, 11:55 AM
If the real NSF beef is with politics in hiring, I'm afraid to introduce you to the rest of the world.

Politics is the norm, not the exception.