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GoCyclones!
09-27-2009, 12:19 AM
I figure we could use this forum to post any rumblings.

Great to see the Atlantic League thriving. Newark will be around and in the Atlantic League next year. New ownership wants to make it work.

Word is the League has made up two schedules for 2010, one with a road team, one without. Ownership in Bridgeport wants to see if it can get a certain number of season ticket sales. If not, they may fold. Either way, it looks like they were bound to move to Northern Virginia. Just a matter of, will they play out one more year? I wonder if they'd draw better by moving to the Yale Bowl in New Haven. The area of the ballpark isn't great and I even heard about players being mugged after the games.

Regarding possible expansion, Bergen Cliff Hawks is a dead deal. I hear conflicting stories about the second team in LI. Any updates on the Lighthouse Project? I read October 3rd is a deadline. For what? Not too sure. Any word on a ground-breaking in Yonkers? It seems when ballpark plans are tied to a larger real estate deal they fail. That would be a great location for a team. Opening Day Partners (Lancaster, York, Southern Maryland) is looking to build a park in West Chester, PA, but it's likely to be for the Phillies NY-Penn League team.

dmbishop
09-27-2009, 12:22 PM
Don't worry about the Lighthouse Project. It has become a typical Long Island political cluster-f...

Even if it is ever approved (Oct 3 is a Charles Wang deadline, which will be moved back after 10/3) don't expect meaningful construction to start until at least 2011. The baseball stadium, which is in some plans, but not in others, is part of Phase II, which means 2013-2015.

Newsday story on the history of the Lighthouse Project (http://www.newsday.com/long-island/nassau/wang-s-lighthouse-project-slow-going-from-the-start-1.1479236)

The 'official' Lighthouse Website (http://www.lighthouseli.com/)

Dave

GoCyclones!
09-27-2009, 09:37 PM
Oh wow, thanks for the info. So it's quite a ways away, that's if it ever gets off the ground. Are you from the area? I wonder the local opinion is. I'm sure they want to keep the Islanders but I'm sure there are major zoning issues.

Sharks52
09-30-2009, 11:18 AM
With Connecticut of the Eastern League heading for Richmond it looks like the Atlantic League is out of that market. I think the only thing keeping the Bluefish in Bridgeport will be if the Bears fold as the AL wouldn't want two traveling teams. If the Bears don't get the additional investors they want and decide to fold the AL would probably be better off going with six teams and a 96 game schedule and eliminating those May and September games that draw about 300 people.

dmbishop
09-30-2009, 12:31 PM
Atlantic League Attendance Report

Team----------------Total-------Average
Long Island---------414,973-----6,014
Somerset------------355,429-----5,305
Lancaster-----------314,228-----4,690
York----------------276,446-----4,126
Southern Maryland---239,541-----3,629
Camden--------------234,519-----3,608
Newark--------------163,736-----2,558
Bridgeport----------162,121-----2,384

GoCyclones!
09-30-2009, 06:27 PM
You know, sharks, Im not in favor of your idea. I like the fact that what makes the Atlantic League better than other Indy leagues is the high level of talent and longer season. I think the league is thriving. I love the fact there's still Atlantic League games going. I was there last week in Somerset and they had a full house. There are two weak teams, sure. Every league has weaker teams. Bridgeport are likely to move to Virginia, which is expected to be a good market. I understand new ownership in Newark is going to start marketing the team more in NYC (about time. What took so long?). That should help. It's newark. They'll never get somerset or LI crowd but I do think they haven't reached their potential in attendance.

It's funny, New Jersey has become such a hotbed for minor league baseball yet why does it struggle in Connecticut? If Bridgeport leaves there'll just be one team in the state. Although a NY-Penn team (jamestown or Vermont) Is expected to move into Norwich.

Sharks52
09-30-2009, 06:53 PM
I also like the fact they play a long season as do most hard core fans, but the bottom line is making money and keeping weak franchises and extra games that the average fan doesn't go to weakens the league. Bridgeport moving to Virginia appears to be out the door and the Bears returning next year is anything but a sure bet. Check this out. http://blogs.mycentraljersey.com/patriots/2009/09/29/breaking-news-newark-bears-future-in-limbo-again/

GoCyclones!
10-01-2009, 12:02 AM
Yeah, I read that article last night. Crazy. What was up with that all the venom that blogger posted? Ouch.

Well, when I asked Tom Cetnar whether the Bears will be around and stay in the Atlantic League next year, he gave me an empathic yes. I would imagine ownership would give it two years before they cut their losses. I will say this about Tom Cetnar, he really just loves baseball. I think it's more than just about making money with him, but at the end of the day that's what it's all about, right?

So you don't think the Bluefish are moving to Loudon, VA? Why? I hope not. I'd rather see the league expand than move teams around. The rumor I heard was that was the reason Boulton bought into the team, to gain control and move them after next season. I think that's going to be a great market, right up with there with Somerset and LI. I think Yonkers will be a great market as well, but there doesn't seem to be any imminent ground-breaking.

So I assume you're a Sharks fan? I know attendance numbers are always inflated (I go to a lot of Bears games, believe me those numbers are inflated!) But do you think that's a true 3,600 they get in Camden? I love that ballpark. My favorite in NJ!

GoCyclones!
10-01-2009, 12:45 AM
BTW, check out what the proposed park in Yonkers will look like.

http://www.westfaironline.com/component/zine/article/572-sfc-tells-yonkers-not-to-worry.html

Looks really nice. Almost like a major league park. The thing is, the field is on the third floor of the structure. How crazy is that? SFCyonkers.com is the site of the developers.

Why is it whenever a ballpark is tied to a larger real estate deal it rarely works out? I have my doubts about this. Would be nice and it's a great market.

GoCyclones!
10-01-2009, 12:57 AM
hmm looks like it's actually on the verge of approval. There's a vote today on it.

http://www.yonkersny.gov/Index.aspx?page=29&recordid=611

I'm somewhat familiar with Yonkers. My dad lives up there. I don't see how this will be anything but good for the city. There are always the naysayers.
Could be ready for 2012. Let's go!

GoCyclones!
10-01-2009, 01:00 AM
Well, when I asked Tom Cetnar whether the Bears will be around and stay in the Atlantic League next year, he gave me an empathic yes.


LOL I meant an "emphatic yes"! An empathic yes would not be good. I should really get to bed

Sharks52
10-01-2009, 08:39 AM
I'm sure the sharks sell or give out 3600 on average per game but honestly on the weeknights you could roll a bowling ball down the main concourse and not hit anybody. Most of the concessions are closed by the sixth inning and by the time the games over you have maybe two or three hundred left. No traffic jams after the games over. They do draw big on Fridays, Saturdays and of course school and camp days. Legit sellouts on weekday day games in the spring and summer. My guess is an average LIVE attendence would be 5500 on Friday, 4500 on Saturday, 3500 on Sunday, 6500 on school-camp day and 800 on weeknights, (400 in May-September and about 1000 during the summer months. About 2400 would probably be a good guess as to how many live show up on average.
I don't know about Virginia. There are factions working there to keep baseball out claiming there are already too many teams within the general driving area. A problem with the sharks in that most people I know head to Trenton or Wilmington if the distances are anywhere close to equal as it's a better overall experience and they do have the advantage of belonging to a major league organization. Those in favor of baseball in Virginia would also prefer affiliated baseball if they could get it so this Bridgeport move there is hardly a done deal, and I don't know how much more money Boulton is going to throw down the toilet on them if he can't get them out by 2011.

GoCyclones!
10-01-2009, 09:03 AM
Well, the Atlantic League moving to Loudoun, VA is a done deal. Right by the Dulles airport. It's been approved and will open in 2011. It's only a question of whether it's an expansion team or a relocation. I think it'll work out fine there. It's a booming and affluent area. Not another park within an hour. It's a great location.

dmbishop
10-01-2009, 01:36 PM
http://www.newsday.com/news/wang-suozzi-announce-proposed-coliseum-lease-1.1491997

Amid the fanfare that's come to surround every major step in the Lighthouse megaproject approval process, Charles Wang and Scott Rechler joined Nassau County Executive Thomas Suozzi Thursday in announcing a proposed lease to develop the 77 acres around Nassau Coliseum.

The announcement of a new 99-year lease - which would keep Wang's New York Islanders playing hockey on Long Island until at least 2030 - comes two days before the start of the hockey season and the date by which Wang said he wanted an answer on whether his Lighthouse project could go forward.

If the Nassau County Legislature approves the ground lease and the Hempstead town board approves new zoning for the site, Wang and Rechler would do a $320 million renovation of the 37-year-old Coliseum at no taxpayer expense within three years.

http://www.morebbsi.com/lighthouse.jpg
The baseball stadium is at the very top.

Dave

GoCyclones!
10-02-2009, 12:56 AM
Thanks for the info. Dave. Wow, this seems like such a sweet deal, what's the hold-up? A privately financed arena especially in these economic times, this seems like a win-win. It could just be not enough politicians have been greased. What am I not seeing? Why is Nassau dragging their feet on this?

Duckfan
10-02-2009, 02:03 AM
Read that article again Dave. It's only a proposal. If Wang sticks to his guns and the County Legislature doesn't come up with an approval and zoning changes by Saturday,(they won't) the deal is dead. He has given them a deadline and in true Nassau County fashion, they're treating it like a joke. They pulled the same crap when Wang wanted to consolidate CA and build a major complex in Plainview. They jerked him around, he got pissed and moved everything to Suffolk instead. He's a very savvy businessman and won't tolerate their nonsense.

dmbishop
10-02-2009, 07:37 AM
http://www.newsday.com/long-island/nassau/lighthouse-s-wang-rechler-no-more-negotiating-1.1491997

Lighthouse's Wang, Rechler: No more negotiating

Lighthouse partners Charles Wang and Scott Rechler said Thursday they are no longer willing to change their plans to develop the land around Nassau Coliseum.

"This is not the point to start negotiating anything," Wang said Thursday, five years after unveiling the project. "It's yes or no."

Even amid the fanfare of Thursday's agreement on a proposed lease between the developers and Nassau County, anger and frustration took center stage. Wang, Rechler and County Executive Thomas Suozzi pointed fingers at Hempstead Town Supervisor Kate Murray and the town board for delaying the project and not trying to meet Wang's Oct. 3 deadline for significant progress on the project.

Oh, I'm well aware that yesterday was not the end. That's why I put the word proposed in bold.

Ultimately, it rests on the Zoning Board of the Town of Hempstead. The Lease agreement just ends the County's part of it. Suozzi would not have made such an announcement without knowing that he had the Legislature's approval.

Dave

Duckfan
10-02-2009, 01:16 PM
I guess we'll know by Monday. Given Wang's history with Nassau County Government, I wouldn't bet on a positive outcome. Miracles do happen however.

GoCyclones!
10-12-2009, 11:27 PM
I found this article about a councilwoman in Hoboken, NJ trying to get a minor league stadium in Hoboken, which would be great since it's the birthplace of baseball and just across the Hudson River from Manhattan. Great place for the Atlantic League. Although in other articles I've read she seems to be really keen on getting an affiliated team and even mentioned the Red Sox Triple A team. Which makes no sense since Pawtucket is 40 minutes from Fenway and they sell out virtually every home game.

The popular local opinion seems to be against it. People act as if Hoboken is some world class city. Before the gentrification and yuppiefication of the past 10 years it was known as the birthplace of Frank Sinatra and of baseball, and that's about it. No one ever went there who wasn't from there.

http://www.nj.com/hobokennow/index.ssf/2009/06/last_thursday_2nd_ward_council.html

BTW, got to visit the Blue Crabs' ballpark during the ALCS. Really intimate and unique ballpark. I really enjoyed it and highly recommend it. Kinda in the middle of nowhere but there's a lot of development there, 40 minutes from DC.

Marcelo
12-02-2009, 01:25 PM
I have a question that may be silly but, what the heck.....I am going to ask anyway!

What is the possibility of Atlantic League having a franchise in Ottawa, Canada? There is a first class 10,000 seat stadium there, and it seems there will be no Can-Am team in Ottawa for 2010.

Would it be a feasible possibility?

ACsurfan
12-02-2009, 02:19 PM
Great idea...but the travel expense just doesn't justify it...

The Atlantic League is the premier independent league but what makes it work is the short bus rides

ottawasportsfan2010
12-02-2009, 02:52 PM
Great idea...but the travel expense just doesn't justify it...

The Atlantic League is the premier independent league but what makes it work is the short bus rides

What do you see as a short bus ride.

dmbishop
12-02-2009, 03:19 PM
What do you see as a short bus ride.

Maryland's stadium to Bridgeport (the two teams that are farthest apart in the league) is 300 miles with 6 other teams in between.

Bridgeport to Ottawa is 475 miles with no other teams in between.

Dave

GoCyclones!
12-02-2009, 04:28 PM
Wow, you guys in Ottawa are really hopeful for a team. I hope it works out.

I think Ottawa could work for the Can-Am, maybe the NY-Penn but definitely not the Atlantic League. The only way I could see it working is if Miles Wolff sold the Quebec team to someone who wanted to jump leagues or if the Can-Am folded, or if someone were to put a team in the antiquated park in Burlington, VT if the Lake Monsters left, or placing a team in the English speaking part of Montreal. None are farfetched scenarios but unlikely. You'd have to have at least two teams to make it work is my point. Mapquest lists the drive from Ottawa to Bridgeport as a nine-hour drive. But hey, if the GBL is putting teams in Hawaii, anything is possible.

GoCyclones!
12-02-2009, 05:00 PM
I found it interesting that several NY-Penn teams released their schedules today with no mention of a team in Connecticut. It's long been rumored that Jamestown or Vermont would move to the vacant park in Norwich. This would be a great market for a Can-Am team as it's close to other teams in the league, but I wonder if the AL has taken a look at it as well. It's a really nice facility, an hour and a half from Bridgeport. They averaged about 3,000 as the AA affiliate of the Giants. So if that stayed the same, it would be one of the lowest drawing teams in the AL. Maybe a natural rivalry with Bridgeport could help, but if the rivalry with New Britain didn't save it, I don't think Bridgeport will either.

You know, from North Carolina to Maine, you could throw up a ballpark anywhere along that section of the Eastern seabord and it could be midgets playing ball and people will come, except that teams struggle in Connecticut. I wonder why that it is. New Britain is the only exception. But Eastern League, Can-Am, NECBL teams have left and the Bluefish are rumored to be leaving after next season. I find it surprising. There are seven pro teams and two collegiate league teams in the small state of NJ, and they last with varying degrees of success of course. NJ is more densely populated though. I don't what it is.

ottawasportsfan2010
12-02-2009, 05:56 PM
Wow, you guys in Ottawa are really hopeful for a team. I hope it works out.

I think Ottawa could work for the Can-Am, maybe the NY-Penn but definitely not the Atlantic League. The only way I could see it working is if Miles Wolff sold the Quebec team to someone who wanted to jump leagues or if the Can-Am folded, or if someone were to put a team in the antiquated park in Burlington, VT if the Lake Monsters left, or placing a team in the English speaking part of Montreal. None are farfetched scenarios but unlikely. You'd have to have at least two teams to make it work is my point. Mapquest lists the drive from Ottawa to Bridgeport as a nine-hour drive. But hey, if the GBL is putting teams in Hawaii, anything is possible.

Whie yes people in ottawa want a baseball team.The issue is if they don't get one is the stadium will likely be torn down and the anti sports fans will be all happy and say i told you so.I am not sure if there are to many city in north american like ottawa where so many people are pushing for parks in green space ina city with over 800 parks yet thats no enough.Even the football stadium some want torn down and a park built there i just fear if we keep going down this road the city will be so over come with parks and green space i just don't think it would be a good thing.

GoCyclones!
12-03-2009, 12:42 AM
BTW construction has begun on the massive project in Yonkers, NY which will include a ballpark for an AL team. I believe there are some eminent domain issues remaining (interesting how that definition has evolved over the years), but the wheels are in motion. I think it'll be a great location. Original estimates were that it'll be ready by 2012, but I wouldn't be surprised to see that pushed back.

OttawaBallFan
12-03-2009, 04:01 PM
> Wow, you guys in Ottawa are really hopeful for a team.

Yep, but it won't be in 2010 in my opinion.

> I think Ottawa could work for the Can-Am, maybe the NY-Penn but definitely not the Atlantic League.

Agree. The AL starts a month earlier. We'd have same problem we had with Lynx. Weather not good enough in late April. Same for Quebec which is worse. I don't see Ottawa or Quebec in the AL.

Can-Am is our best option. I don't think the minor leagues want to be in Canada anymore. The IL commish said so publicly. There's only one minor league team left in Canada and that's an A-class short-season team in Vancouver. Ten years ago, there was lots more at all levels. Coincidence? I don't think so.

> the antiquated park in Burlington, VT if the Lake Monsters left

My understanding is that the Lake Monsters ARE leaving. League told them their park is not suitable and the owner can't afford to pay millions to renovate. It's an old ballpark and the outfield has sunk a foot lower than the infield. I don't think even an indie league would want that. New park needed there.

> placing a team in the English speaking part of Montreal.

?? Why the English part of Montreal? Francophones enjoy baseball too. I'm one of them.

> I found it interesting that several NY-Penn teams released their schedules today with no mention of a team in Connecticut.

Doesn't mean a thing.

> This would be a great market for a Can-Am team

Don't know but sure, why not. You do say however that teams struggle in Connecticut. There's got to be a reason. Poor marketing? Less interest in that region? Population not high enough?

> The issue is if they don't get one is the stadium will likely be torn down

I don't think that will happen that fast.

> and the anti sports fans will be all happy and say i told you so.

For sure. Even the guy who wants to play soccer at the stadium the other night, paraphrasing, "It's been proven baseball doesn't work here. Why are we doing this? Let's try soccer". Ugh.

GoCyclones!
02-24-2010, 12:10 AM
I can't wait for the season to start. Did anyone read that article about how Peter Kirk and Opening Day Partners are working with Sugar Land (Houston suburbs) in trying to build a stadium. Kirk said the best options would be the American Association and the Atlantic League. I admire his allegiance to the Atlantic League but could you imagine an expansion team in Texas in the ATLANTIC League. American Association makes so much more sense.

I read an article about how the tickets for the new team in Virginia (I like the name Loudon Hounds. Who picked these names anyway?) could go for $20. Isn't that the antithesis to minor league ball - affordable family entertainment??

GoCyclones!
03-07-2010, 11:46 PM
I found it very interesting to read Opening Day Partners' proposal to build a ballpark and Brooks Robinson Youth Learning Center to Montogomery County, MD. This is gonna get done. Peter Kirk gets things done. Montgomery County is one of the wealthiest in the nation. This is not tied to some insane real estate deal. So far it's only a proposal but I think one's got to be optimistic. I only hope it means expansion and not the future home of the Newark Bears!

Sugar Land, TX has selected Opening Day Partners to build a ballpark and provide a team. Since the Astros have territorial rights and are not interested in having one of their teams there, it'll be an independent team. Probably in the AA.

I was mistaken in an earlier post about ground being broken for a new ballpark in Yonkers, NY. But I did read the transcript of a speech given by the mayor of Yonkers two weeks ago, in which he said all final approvals have been made and he expects ground-breaking this year. Again, tied to some major real estate deal, this been in the works for several years already. Good to see it finally get off the ground!

Can't wait for the season! Let's go Bears!!

ca
03-08-2010, 09:39 AM
if metro houston puts a team in the aa then where do they put team # 12 assuming this se tx team is a new team

GoCyclones!
03-08-2010, 10:55 PM
Sorry, dude, don't know much about the AA. Try Googling it and see what you come up with. I think that's still a couple years away though. I'm all about the Atlantic League, baby!

GoCyclones!
03-12-2010, 10:29 PM
I found this an interesting tidbit regarding the new Sugar Land team:


In the last month Houston has been the seat of intrigue in the baseball world after Peter Kirk signed an MOU with Sugar Land to develop a new ballpark and bring in pro baseball. After the Houston Astros killed any plans for an affiliated team in Sugar Land, officials there turned to the indy market and signed the deal with Kirk. (More details of that deal are emerging: we're told Kirk plans on putting an independent Atlantic League team in Sugar Land, flying the team and opponent in and out for games.) We're also told Kirk intimated he could bring in an affiliated team -- and the Astros are reevaluating their opposition to affiliated ball in Sugar Land.

GoCyclones!
04-12-2010, 10:04 PM
Wow, there's quite a bit of buzz regarding the Atlantic League and Sugar Land, TX. Miles Wolff himself said if he were a betting man he'd bet on the AL in Sugar Land. Peter Klein mentioned it could be first of four teams in an AL West Division. Could be ready to go by 2012. Sounds interesting!!

GoCyclones!
04-13-2010, 12:08 PM
Sorry, Peter Kirk (Opening Day Partners) I meant not Klein

Texasrangers13
04-13-2010, 04:27 PM
So then what would the other 3 markets be...

Sugar Land
???
???
???

GoCyclones!
04-14-2010, 01:23 AM
I have no idea. Good question, dude. I would imagine they'd be bus rides to Sugar Land. Galveston and Beaumont have hosted teams in the past. I don't know enough about those areas to guess whether they can support a team again. I would expect something else within the metro Houston area. The metro Dallas area seems pretty saturated with teams. Baton Rouge is an open market several hours away. Quite a trip though.

lamearmjr
04-14-2010, 09:29 PM
Maybe if they could convince Amarillo to leave the ULB that would be a great addition. The only way you go Dallas is if its very far East Dallas, then that may work. Heres an idea, maybe inter-league games with soon to be ATL West teams and AA South Teams? Honestly though, SL needs to go with the AA, travel costs would eat them alive. Ok say they do go with the ATL and there are 3 other teams in the west divison, that will be alot of games against the same few teams, with an unbalanced schedule. Oh and I hope they dont want fans to ever follow them on the road. While the AA gives teams much closer, fewer miles, and maybe not the top indy league but without doubt the second best.

GoCyclones!
04-15-2010, 10:19 PM
I hear ya, a move to the AA would make more sense but I think it's doable. I mean, if the GBL is playing games in Hawaii now, I think this can work. But I understand your point that it does defeat the purpose of keeping costs low. I think the thing it has going for it is Peter Kirk. He seems to have a good vision and a golden touch. So if he sincerely believes it's a good idea, I trust it.

I think he sees it as there are limited expansion opportunities in the northeast. There 20 pro baseball teams within three hours of NYC, not to mention a couple of collegiate league teams. While there are couple of more places to build like Yonkers, NY and Nassau County, there aren't a whole lot of opportunities for the league to expand left. It does sound a little out there, but I admire Kirk as a visionary.

GoCyclones!
05-06-2010, 11:19 PM
It seemed to escape my notice that Frank Boulton became the primary owner of the Newark Bears. No announcement was made. Just thinking out loud, but I wonder if the new team in Loudoun County, VA will be a relocation rather than expansion. The league is thriving but there are two struggling franchises. I go to quite a few Bears games, despite the big names on the roster, some nights you may find larger crowds at little league games. Makes one wonder how much longer they can survive like that...

I just want to show some love for PatriotsBaseball.com. Very informative site with player interviews, including one where Ryan Freel, in the bigs for several seasons, called Travis Anderson the best hitting coach he's had. Freel is an interesting dude. I think he just loves playing baseball. I was at the Pats game last Saturday. When Freel got his first hit of the season, an RBI single, he raised his first in the air and then asked for the ball. I was amazed. Imagine Somerset's lineup with Jack Cust hitting cleanup...he's from the area. Not playing a whole lot now in Sacramento. I don't think it's farfetched!

GoCyclones!
05-11-2010, 04:47 PM
While searching for some news about any groundbreaking in Loudoun County, VA, I came across an article in Leesburg Today that says two teams are scheduled to open in 2011 and one more in 2012. Doesn't appear any ground has broken in VA yet. Nor in Yonkers which was slated for 2012. I wonder who that other team would be. Although it's entirely possible it was erroneous info.

Things are not looking good in Newark, my friends! I went to the day game of the day-night doubleheader on Saturday. With yet another sparse crowd, I asked some knowledgeable folks about Boulton's out-of-nowhere majority ownership. I heard that some owners had wanted out and he didn't want to have a Road Warriors team. Wow, so if that's true, they were close to folding. Not that they're so far away now. This could be the last season for the Bears. Yeah, it's Newark and it has that image and casual fans aren't that interested in hanging out in Brick City, I don't believe ownership has done a good job in promoting the team, especially being the closest team to NYC. There's good coverage for most AL teams including some blog sites but nothing for the Bears beyond their website. Granted promoting a team that plays in Newark is a challenge but you have to step up and try to make it work. A little disappointed in the lack of effort.

I'm loving my subscription to Bob Wirz's Atlantic League Notebook! Highly recommend it!

beatman10
05-15-2010, 10:04 AM
I am a season ticket holder for the Bears, and I just feel like I'm waiting for the inevitable folding and/or moving of the team. I agree with GoCyclones about the lack of promotion. That could be a sign that the team may be moving. I also think The Newark Star-Ledger does a lousy job of covering the Bears, and only covers them when there's a negative story about the team. They were all over the story when the team went bankrupt in 2008. I don't get why there's so much hatred for Newark, and why people want to see the Newark Bears and the city fail. I don't want to see Bears and Eagles Riverfront Stadium end up like Bernie Robbins Stadium in Atlantic City (home of the AC Surf). That stadium is just sitting there rotting away. Maybe attendence will increase when the schools let out for summer, but the Bears really need to do some better promoting.

ACsurfan
05-20-2010, 01:57 PM
I spoke with an official at another Atlantic League team who indicated the Bears will be back next year...the main reason being that Frank Bolton is behind the team and is convinced that both Newark and Bridgeport can be successful.

If the section of town where the Bears stadium is located ever gets developed...perhaps attendance will improve. For the first five years or so the Bears had decent attendance...not sure why so many people stopped going to the games but it's probably tied to the economy.

As for the AC Surf, perhaps the Phillies will decide to put their NY-Penn League team in the AC stadium. That way, 4 affiliates would be within 2 hours of Philadelphia. As a Phillies affiliate, I bet the Surf could get decdent crowds.

GoCyclones!
05-20-2010, 10:42 PM
Hey Surfy McSurf. Re AC, wow, man, I've searched and searched and have not come across any sort of buzz regarding Atlantic City. The only thing I have heard from someone is that the stadium has fallen into a such a state of disrepair. Wires stripped, windows broken, busted pipes.

You're right, if the area around the ballpark ever improved, it could have potential. They added the light rail line. Who knows, if the Nets got LeBron James maybe he could do for Newark what he did for Cleveland. But I feel like I've been hearing about a planned renaissance for years. Ten-year plans and the like. Some progress has been made but it's been sloooowww going. I do feel it has some potential though whereas Bridgeport is as good as it's gonna get right now. I think they'd be better served with a NY-Penn team. I'm not quite sure if I believe your source. I really feel there's less of an effort this year. It's almost as if they've given up putting money into the park or promoting the team. I used to go to a bunch of Bears games. It feels so devoid of energy or excitement I'd rather take the extra 40 minute train ride to go to Somerset now, and that's what I've been doing.

On another note, so it's a done deal - there will be an Atlantic League team in Sugar Land, TX in 2012. Should be interesting. The start of an AL West. I wonder what other markets. I've heard that Waco, TX was interested in a team. Not sure what's happened there. BallparkDigest.com reports that Cumberland, MD is interested in having a baseball team and at least one AL owner has spoken to officials. From what I know about that area is it's a small town in the middle of nowhere. Can minor league ball survive there?

GoCyclones!
05-20-2010, 11:25 PM
Just thinking out loud, but I'd think that another AL West team that could work would be in Galveston County area, perhaps in League City, an affluent community. About 40 miles from Sugar Land, could set up a nice rivalry.

GoCyclones!
05-28-2010, 12:46 AM
Again, I want to recommend signing up for Bob Wirz's Atlantic League Notebook. Definitely worth it!

I don't want to get into any copyright issues but earlier in the week he had an interview with Frank Boulton and referred to Sugar Land as a "great starting point" toward Western growth. He didn't feel it would be wise to take on one team by itself. "When asked if other cities could be added by the Sugar Land target date of 2012, Boulton offered a firm 'yes' adding all the possibilities might not be in Texas."

A four to six team western division is the talk.

GoCyclones!
06-02-2010, 01:34 AM
I'm very curious about the Newark situation. There's a feeling that ownership has given up - the stadium isn't no longer well maintained, lack of ballpark promotions. I found articles from throughout the past ten years wondering if things will get better for the Bears. I've come to the conclusion that the Bears will only succeed if Newark the city improve.

Now I've found various articles about a development group headed by Shaquille O'Neal gaining approval to build luxury condos in downtown Newark. Good job by Shaq for caring about his hometown! No shovels have gone into the ground yet but it's been approved, whatever that means. Construction on a Downtown Marriott is planned, the first new hotel in Newark in 40 years. The Nets in Newark, albeit only for a couple seasons plus Lincoln Park Cultural District set to open in 2011. This could be the start of that long-awaited rebirth of Newark. Will the Bears still be around for it??

ZombieTom
06-02-2010, 06:47 AM
well for what its worth The Newark Bears recently setup their online merch store through their website. I don't see that being an effort applyed by a team on the way out. more like the beginning of a turn around...

I hope they stick. I'll be heading up for two games this season, and if still around next year ill see more...

GoCyclones!
06-03-2010, 09:56 AM
Hey Tom. Send me a MSG when you go. I'll meet up with you and we can talk Atlantic League baseball and I'll introduce you to the hardcore Bears fans! It's a nice park, but you'll see some areas that need some obvious touching up left undone.

ZombieTom
06-04-2010, 07:48 PM
Are you the same crew that comes to Camden when the bears play the sharks?

There was a whole crew of Bears fans the last time i saw the two play each other...

ACsurfan
06-12-2010, 12:32 PM
As an AC Surf fan, one little thing that led me to believe that the club wouldn't be around for long was that the bathroom floors were not being painted...basically, I saw those same unpainted bathroom floors when I visited the Den recently...

Although, I did hear at the Bears game due to Atlantic League revenue sharing, the Bears aren't going to move (as of now).

GoCyclones!
07-17-2010, 08:18 PM
Ballpark in Loudoun is finally underway. It looks closer to a 2012 opening rather 2011.

http://www.ballparkdigest.com/news/?article_id=2529

jidyfan
07-19-2010, 12:00 PM
They are having a contest to name the new Atlantic League team in Sugar Land, Texas. Here is a link to the story.
http://www.ultimatefortbend.com/2010/07/contest-kicks-name-baseball-team

GoCyclones!
07-29-2010, 01:03 AM
Thanks for the info, Surf and Jidy. I haven't been on this site too much of late. I've been turned off by the incessant ads that and pop-ups that seep through pop-up filters.

Anyway, I wanted to share this article I found interesting by Patriots writer Ryan Dunleavy. He's talking about how NJ has become a hotbed for minor league ball and discusses possible further expansion opportunities in Middlesx and Bergen Counties, and even suggests a revival of the Surf franchise. Perhaps our AC friend could weigh in on that.

http://blogs.mycentraljersey.com/patriots/2010/07/18/state-of-baseball/

Then I found this article about Panama City, FL looking to lure a Southern League team. If that doesn't work and expansion is impossible unless there's MLB expansion, they could go for an indy team. Although this could be better suited for an AA team, since the Atlantic League is spreading south and west, this could be an option.

www.newsherald.com%2Farticles%2Fleague-85440-baseball-minor.html&h=a041e

GoCyclones!
08-09-2010, 11:55 PM
Howdy! I enjoyed my weekend trip to York, which completes my tour of each park in the league. They might have the best fans in the league. A moderately sized crowd but very vocal and into the game.

Anyway, I just wanted to share my lack of optimism for the Bears chances of staying in Newark. I do think most teams' attendance numbers are true, the Bears' are surely exaggerated. I went to a game last week where the actual crowd may have been a third of what was reported. And obvious places of desrepair but all that is old news already. What is becoming more apparent is that some of the higher profile players don't want to play there. I heard Elijah Dukes just walked off the team and didn't want to play there (What a waste of talent). I then read in Patriots writer Mike Ashmore's Q & A with former Cincinnati Red and Newark Bear Scott Williamson this line about his time in Newark:

"Somerset is a great place to play. I needed fans and some adrenaline. It’s hard to get adrenaline when you only have a few hundred people in the stands."

TOROSFAN
08-12-2010, 10:52 AM
In my experience with Indy ball attendance I think this has been the rule of thumb for most franchises....take the paid attendance in ticket sales, and add the actual head count at the game and that becomes the posted attendance number. I have seen this in many parks over the years as a general rule.

So, in numbers, let's say season ticket sales for that team are 680, and the actual game attendance thru the turnstiles, in the seats, is 510...then the reported attendance is 1190

What should it be? Who knows...but the true count of counting the stubs that come thru the turnstiles is only the true in the seats attendance. And the reporting of season tickets sold plus that game day number is also not truely inaccurate but skewed.

If the teams took the season ticket sales and then counted only the NEW tickets sold for that game, then the attendance who be very, very close. Of course new tickets would include freebies for schools etc, etc and free players tickets etc.

The debate will continue and the teams will skew the numbers but bottom line is you have to make payroll and the teams that don't will be those that inflate their numbers and fail their fans and sponsors...great topic!!

Hawk87
08-12-2010, 01:45 PM
With the Atlantic League expanding into Houston and taking over Laredo, I forsee the league trying to bring the entire UBL under its wing to be its western division.

GoCyclones!
08-15-2010, 07:37 PM
Toros, I think that's just everywhere, inflated attendance numbers, not just indy ball. But in most places in the Atlantic League it's true. Long Island gets a real 6,000 a game and the others do well, too.

Hawk, that's an interesting proposal. I think you might be mistaken though. I believe Laredo will be going to the American Association, not the Atlantic League. But it may not be farfetched that a ULB team looking for a new park jumps ship.

ca
08-15-2010, 08:37 PM
as the atl west ? why not since it would be an easy way to have a division and their probably arent many open markets out ther anywho

GoCyclones!
08-16-2010, 12:33 AM
A merger isn't a bad idea. Something's gotta be in the works since they are talking about a four to six team division, at least two teams in 2012 but all we've heard about is Sugar Land. These things take time. There seem to be a few weak markets in the league - Coastal Bend averaging 319. What's the story with that? But you're right, there doesn't appear to be a whole lot of open markets left. Also ULB is expanding into Dallas as well. Wow, I like this idea. I wonder how realistic it is. I'm gonna start snooping around and see if I come up with anything...

GoCyclones!
08-16-2010, 12:38 AM
http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/7019595539?Ex-MLB%20Slugger%20Canseco%20Is%20Player/Coach%20On%20Independent%20Team

Oh man, then there's this. Jose Canseco (he's still around?) just signed as player/coach of Laredo. Living in a garage after being evicted. You know, I'm pretty compassionate guy but I don't feel much sympathy for this dude.

Duckfan
08-21-2010, 03:37 PM
Long Island gets a real 6,000 a game
Who told you that? I've attended 10 games this year so far and there sure are a lot of people disguising themselves as empty seats.
The Ducks' attendance figures are a joke. They're inflated by at least 50%. On the nights they announce 6000 in attendance, they're lucky if the have 4000 butts in the seats. If you want to argue that it's based on tickets sold, I find it hard to believe that 2000 people decided to rearrange their sock drawer instead of attending a game they paid for. I'm not sure what the point is but the Ducks are lying about their attendance figures.

GoCyclones!
08-22-2010, 09:36 PM
I don't know, Duck, I've also been to about ten Ducks games this season, all weekday games I might add, and I've always seen the place at near capacity. Maybe you and I have just gone on different nights. I've been to a lot of games all over the country and teams in every league pad attendance figures, but I would definitely beg to differ on the statement that it's a 50% markup for Ducks games. But perhaps we could just agree to disagree on that point.

Duckfan
09-05-2010, 12:29 PM
It's amazing. The Ducks are now averaging over 6000 a game. They went from an average of 5900 to 6026 in one day. Do you want to know how they did it?. On Saturday 9/4, they had a day/night double header with separate admissions. They counted that as one opening with almost 12,000 in attendance. Eureka! They passed 6000! I was at the night game. It was a chilly, windy, meaningless game.The truth is that they're lucky if they had 3500, yet the official attendance was over 6000.
I don't know what the game is or why they're doing this but it's all BS. My guess is that they're trying to sucker other franchises into the league with visions of sugar plums and dollar signs. The Duck's home attendance figures are an outright lie. There's some serious fraud going on here. Everyone knows that the real money is made at the Concession Stands, not the Gate. I would love to see those figures. My guess is that they're down by a considerable percentage. Empty seats don't buy those $6.50 beers.

Duckfan
09-05-2010, 07:33 PM
I take it back. The League corrected the average. Someone must be reading this Forum.

GoCyclones!
09-06-2010, 10:46 PM
You certainly have a lot of anger towards the Ducks, especially odd considering the fact your screen name is Duckfan. Again, every Duck game I've been to has been a nearly packed house. I think sponsors get tickets and they may or may not show up. But does it really even matter? Dude, if you aren't happy with your team, support a different one. That's the beauty of living in and around NY. A lot of exciting baseball being played this year in Coney Island! I still go to Bears games but the atmosphere there can be depressing, so I go see the Ducks and Patriots as well. Somerset plays exciting baseball with large crowds. Great radio broadcaster. Check 'em out! Take the ferry to Bridgeport.

Duckfan
09-08-2010, 12:22 AM
You're right. I am angry with the current Duck's management. We fought for 20 years to get a Minor League team on Long Island. The Mets and Yankees fought us tooth and nail to keep the competition out of their backyard. An affiliated team was out of the question. The Atlantic League was our savior. Once we got a team, the fans came out in force. The attendance figures were way beyond what anyone expected(they were real too) and the publicly funded ball park was paid off well ahead of schedule. We had a Golden Goose and it was laying golden eggs.

The problem is that in the 11 years the Ducks have been in existence the prime owner of the team, Frank Boulton, has never given the team 100% of his attention. There has always been a second,weaker team to occupy his time. At first it was the Atlantic City Surf, followed by the Nashua Pride, the Bridgeport Bluefish and currently the Newark Bears. As in any family, the problem child gets the majority of the parent's attention. The stronger child is left to fend for itself.

Where do you think Boulton gets the money to keep these teams afloat? Do you think a portion of the profits from those $6.50 beers is helping to pay the player salaries for the Bears? You're damn right it does! How is Boulton going to find enough quality players to field two competitive teams? He can't. That's why both teams sucked this year. With the fan support the Ducks get, their record is a disgrace. We have 1 Championship in 11 years. Somerset has five and has a good shot at 6. Why? Could it be that Kalafer only has one team to worry about? Could it be he actually cares about his team?

I'm tired of losing.
I'm tired of being ripped off at the concession stands. I have no beef with the ticket prices. They're great, especially when compared to the Mets and Yankees. The food, however, is an entirely different matter. They will not allow you to bring in so much as a bottle of water and the food is horrible and grossly over priced. We are not paying off a $1.2 billion ball park. Our highest paid player is making $3K a month. There's no reason for the prices they charge.
I'm tired of having my wife searched at the gate to make sure she's not smuggling in a pack of gum. It's offensive.
I'm tired of supporting another team in a City that doesn't care about their team and refuses to support them.
I will not be attending anymore games this season. The games are meaningless and boring. The talent on the field is bottom of the barrel and they're just not worth the effort of traveling to the ball park to watch them. In the first few seasons the novelty of having your own team was enough. That's no longer the case. I now demand a competitive team. The Ducks are just not a competitive team. With Boulton at the helm, there's serious doubt they ever will be. Even kids don't like to go to see teams that lose all the time.
The between inning entertainment is a joke. It's old, it's tired, it hasn't changed in 11 years, it's boring.

You have the luxury of being centrally located. You also don't seem to have any loyalty to one particular team. You're satisfied just being able to go to a ball game. Good for you. I live less than 5 miles away from Suffolk County/Citibank/EAB Park and I have always rooted for the home team, my team. If the home team is a bad team, I don't root for anyone. I look for something else to do. Because of that I will not be traveling to Brooklyn to watch the Cyclones. Besides the fact that I'm a country boy, there is nothing in the big City that interests me. I don't even like driving through it. I also will not be driving to Somerset or Newark and paying for parking, tolls and a ton of gas. Somerset is in the middle of nowhere and Newark is a sewer. I will not be taking the ferry to Bridgeport either. The fare is OK but the Town of Brookhaven charges $20 to park in the lot by the ferry. The fact that the last ferry leaves Bridgeport before the 7th inning of most games is also a problem. That 8 mile swim is a sonafagun.

There's no reason why I should have to do any of this anyway. My tax dollars built the ball park. I've paid more for my tickets and food than the fans of any other team in the league. Why can't I demand a winning team? What kind of idiot enjoys watching their team lose?

I will not be renewing my Ticket Packages next season.There's no reason to have them anyway. We don't have real sellouts anymore. You can wait to see what the weather is going to be before laying out the money. The ducks rarely cancel because of rain and routinely make their fans sit through it. You can buy good tickets right up to game time. In some cases you get better seats than you could have if you bought them well in advance. They've killed my part of the Golden Goose. They lost a lot of subscribers over the last few years. They will lose a few more this year. With any luck, Boulton will go belly up and the County will negotiate a deal with the Yankees for a AA Team.

P.S. An empty seat is defined as one that doesn't have anyone sitting in it. If you can't see them(they're blue), it's time for an eye exam. The reason it bothers me is that those empty seats don't spend any money. That money boosts the local economy "dude".

GoCyclones!
09-08-2010, 03:25 PM
I don't know, man, you seem to have a lot of gripes about a lot of things. What can YOU do about? Here's what you do: either support the team or don't. That's it. I loved the Mets and used to complain about MLB and salary caps and stuff like that, things I had no control over. Rather than enjoy baseball I liked to complain and ***** and moan to anyone who listened. I came to the point where my belly aching isn't gonna do much. Either support the Mets and accept the system or do something else. I've found peace and I enjoy baseball so much more by following the minors. Perhaps you could try that too. If the team is causing you that much distress, do something else, whatever else country boys in Long Island do. I'd prefer to keep this forum to news and updates about the league and not turn it into a therapy session.

I've been to many ballparks around the country, almost all major league parks and about 100 minor league parks and I can't recall a single one that allows you to bring in outside food. Some are less stringent about enforcing the rules, but I can't recall a single one that doesn't have it posted somewhere saying outside food is prohibited. Go fishing. You can bring all the food you want there.

I actually thought the Ducks did a good job at first at recruiting, a staff anchored by Diaz and Ponson, middle of the order of Navarrete, Cancel, Mohr, Esquivel and Padgett. I thought they were the team to beat. But championships aren't won on paper. The Patriots seem to have had the rare circumstance in this league of transient players to have a core that has remained intact. Just to see Player of the Year Navarrete come back was a good surprise. I also like the fact that the wealthiest team is willing to help out the less wealthy teams. You can read on this site about other leagues and what sound like ponzi schemes, teams disappearing and players not being played. I like the stability that the Atlantic League has even with failing teams.

Again, minor league ball is supposed to provide affordable family entertainment. You are obviously not entertained. I suggest look elsewhere then for that entertainment.

GoCyclones!
09-08-2010, 03:36 PM
I read this article a few weeks ago. I didn't want to post it and offend any GBL fans, but this is former Patriot and current Rivershark Sean Smith, who was in spring training with the Nats, talking about his time playing in the GBL, where he says, "if you care about your career I wouldn't recommend that league to anyone..."

But I just want to reiterate to disgruntled fans how good a league the Atlantic League is, and if you don't like it, you are free to not support it then.

http://www.mycentraljersey.com/article/20100823/SPORTS0104/8230359/Former-Patriot-Sean-Smith-now-with-Camden

DCAbloob
09-09-2010, 04:55 AM
A press event for the Loudoun County, VA expansion team is set for September 21. Presumably, we'll get the official answer on a 2011 or 2012 start at that point.

zuma jay
09-09-2010, 09:58 PM
The talent in the Atlantic League speaks for itself given how many ALPB "alumni" have gone on to play major league ball. Jay Gibbons with the Angels is the latest example. Top quality managers, too.

As far as the Ducks, I have to agree that the ball club has been a major disappointment on the field. Clearly, Boulton's need to prop up the Newark Bears with Long Island cash flow isn't helping matters...

The Long Island fans deserve better. The Ducks should be equal to or better than the Patriots in terms of challenging for league titles.

The Loudon, VA team should do very well at the gate especially if they can sign a few "name" ballplayers. Perhaps, they can lure Butch Hobson to become their manager.

I'd give the Newark Bears one more year before calling it quits on that city.
If baseball in Camden can be successful...why not Newark?

GoCyclones!
09-09-2010, 10:53 PM
Thanks for the info, DCA. I believe it's already been announced that play will begin in 2012. They haven't even broken ground yet. I'm in any more info that comes out of this though.

Jay, I don't know where this entitlement comes from as far deserving a championship. I mean, wasn't this team one win away from making it to the championship series last year? They are right in the thick of it. Sometimes you get beat and you tip your cap. The Sharks have never won a title and haven't contended the past few years. I don't believe running Newark has had any effect on the Ducks. Have you seen Newark's record this year? ODP runs three teams.

Very good question as to why does it work in Camden but not Newark. I was chatting with a well-informed buddy about this and he mentioned how there's just no marketing of the team at all. I live in NY and most New Yorkers don't know how close it is to get to the ballpark. I think most baseball fans in NYC have heard of the Bears but don't know much about them. I was in contact with the ownership and they told me about street teams and promotional ideas but nothing's been done in that regard. They've got to want to help themselves.

DCAbloob
09-10-2010, 04:28 AM
Thanks for the info, DCA. I believe it's already been announced that play will begin in 2012. They haven't even broken ground yet. I'm in any more info that comes out of this though.


It's confirmed that the Loudoun County, VA team name, logo and uniforms will all be unveiled on September 21.

http://vipbb.planetgateway.net

beatman10
09-11-2010, 11:14 AM
Thanks for the info, DCA. I believe it's already been announced that play will begin in 2012. They haven't even broken ground yet. I'm in any more info that comes out of this though.

Jay, I don't know where this entitlement comes from as far deserving a championship. I mean, wasn't this team one win away from making it to the championship series last year? They are right in the thick of it. Sometimes you get beat and you tip your cap. The Sharks have never won a title and haven't contended the past few years. I don't believe running Newark has had any effect on the Ducks. Have you seen Newark's record this year? ODP runs three teams.

Very good question as to why does it work in Camden but not Newark. I was chatting with a well-informed buddy about this and he mentioned how there's just no marketing of the team at all. I live in NY and most New Yorkers don't know how close it is to get to the ballpark. I think most baseball fans in NYC have heard of the Bears but don't know much about them. I was in contact with the ownership and they told me about street teams and promotional ideas but nothing's been done in that regard. They've got to want to help themselves.
There's virtually no marketing for the team. I keep hearing radio ads for Lakewood Blueclaws, Trenton Thunder, and the Somerset Patriots, but no ads for the Bears. Add the fact that The Star-Ledger doesn't cover the team, and the negative perception people have of Newark. I've been to many Newark Bears games and NJ Devils games and NEVER was shot at, carjacked, mugged, etc. If anything, the people around me are friendly. The staff is friendly. The state and the city itself need to do more to sell Newark as a destination. However I have bad feeling about the Bears future in Newark. This week is their final homestand, barring a miracle and they make the playoffs. I noticed there were no announcements concerning 2011 ticket deposits, something they have always done in the past. Also, the winners of events like the "Dizzy Bat Race" were given 2 tickets, presumably to future Bears games, but the announcer never specified this. Maybe I'm reading too much into this, I don't know. I do know, the Bears have a small but extremely loyal and passionate fan base, which I am part of, and I will hate to see them leave. I do think baseball can work in Newark, if it's promoted and covered right. If hockey can work in Newark, why not baseball? If the Bears are gone after this season, it will be another blow to the city's image and will give the Newark haters something else to cheer about.

jidyfan
09-11-2010, 10:16 PM
I was told by several players that they were already told by management that next year the Newark Bears will return as the Road Warriors and play all of their games on the road.

whammer
09-12-2010, 01:18 PM
Some questions for all if Loudoun plays in the Atlantic League...

Is the travel time between Loudoun and the rest of the teams in the Atlantic League realistic?
Is this a good location for Indy baseball to play in? Do you think the community will rally around this team and support it?
Does this location have competition with neighbouring communities for attendance?
Does Peter Kirk feel this would be a good investment?
If a relocation team is moving to Loudoun, who do you think the front runners would be? Bridgeport/Newark?
If this is a good/speculative investment, would any of you consider buying shares into the Loudoun team?

Wealth of information on this site. Would welcome all thoughts
thanks,
todd

GoCyclones!
09-12-2010, 04:04 PM
Judy, although no one would be shocked by that, reading that however, I couldn't help but feel it touch a chord with me and made me feel sad about that. If it's true, what I'd be a little upset about would be this article saying how Boulton is committed to Newark and making it work. And their GM walking around the stadium assuring that the team will be around. Like I said, no one would be surprised but don't try to deceive me either. Last year the Connecticut Defenders everyone knew they were leaving. They never said, "oh yeah, we'll be here" line but a rather let's assess at the end of the season. Here's what I'm talking about:

http://www.yorkblog.com/revs/frank-boulton/

You could sense a lame duck feeling this season but was constantly told otherwise. The truth will be revealed soon enough.

If they did move, I wonder if the Mets would consider moving their AA team there. That would surely be a better draw, as it would be marketed in NYC, something the Bears foolishly never did.

jidyfan
09-12-2010, 05:23 PM
Cyclone, I hope that the story in not true for the Newark fans sake. Like I said, I was told by several players and I also confirmed it with a front office staff member.

As far as the Mets moving a team there, I believe the Yankees would not allow it. Remember, Frank Boulton originally wanted to move the Albany-Colonie Yankees to Long Island and the Mets blocked it. That's one of the reasons the Atlantic League came about. The Cyclones and Staten Island Yankees came about by a mutual agreement between the Yankees and Mets to allow the other's team to play within their territorial boundary. The Yankees would never allow the Mets to have 2 farm teams operate in their area when they only have one.

beatman10
09-12-2010, 07:31 PM
which went into rain delay. Most of the fans there hung around for a long time
until the game was cancelled. As I have said before, the Bears fans may be small in numbers,but they are extremely passionate! Anyway, I looked on the Bears website tonight, and they are telling fans to stay tuned for information about the 2011 season. It says they will be back next year, and stay tuned for information about ticket plans. I would hate to think ownership would just be posting this to give us Bears fans hope, and then pull the rug out from under us. Maybe, they had a change of heart, I don't know. But it is a bit of encouragement.

GoCyclones!
09-13-2010, 12:25 AM
Todd, with all due respect, those are some odd questions. Is this for marketing research?

Jids, you're right about having to get Yankee approval. I'd just hate to see another park sitting empty.

Beatman brings up some interesting points. On their website and on their Facebook page there's all this "see you next year" talk, which would lead one to believe that they'll be around. All season long I've heard yes, they'll be there next year but not sure about after that. Again, if they fold, I'd be bummed and can't say I'm surprised but don't try and mislead us. Don't say I'm so committed to making it work and I challenge you to sit down with me and look at what we're doing, but then have no intention of staying. I mean, at least LeBron James wasn't as misleading with the Cavaliers!

whammer
09-13-2010, 06:03 PM
Hi Cyclone,

No, this is not a marketing survey of any kind. I am simply some Joe Schmo from Canada. Not sure why you would think these questions as being odd. I pretty much pulled these questions from various posts on this web site and piled them together into one post. I have been reading about various leagues/teams being formed around Canada/US/Mexico and the troubles and turbulations these leagues have been experiencing with teams folding, players not being paid, leagues folding after only a few operational years. I am like many on here, curious as to when a league folds, another is created. A team folds in a weak league, 2 more teams are formed etc. Where does all of this money come from to startup new leagues etc. It seems like the same commissioners/team owners recycle themselves into new leagues. Why would a potential new owner invest with the same people that have suffocated the last league they ran? I have been reading about the new franchise in Loudoun and the expense at the hands of the taxpayers in that county to build a stadium and hopefully support a pro ball team. Rocton is the same thing. Taxpayers dollars fuelling a new team that is rumoured to play in the Can-Am league which is an unstable league( if I was reading the posts correctly). Loudoun for example, has an average of around 4-5hrs travel distance within the Atlantic divisional teams...is that normal or will the travel costs become an issue for the team owner in the short time they are in the league? I am starting to ramble, but if I was doing a market survey, which I am not, this would be a good place to ask the right questions and a compliment to all of the armchair sports fans on this web page that contribute their thoughts and ideals of their favorite sport and team.

GoCyclones!
09-14-2010, 01:02 AM
I think when the Atlantic League first started they were given incentives to build ballparks in, for lack of a better word, downtrodden areas like Newark, Bridgeport, Atlantic City, Camden and even Central Islip, NY. It's worked well in some places, not so much in others. Going to Ducks games, it looks like a whole community has sprung up around the ballpark. There's a long awaited Newark renaissance happening but it's slow moving. AC is no longer around. Camden seems to be doing better each year despite a not so good on-field product and its shaky reputation ("Murder capital" can't be good for tourism), Bridgeport seems to be plugging along, although attendance has decreased drastically. After some questionable expansion moves (Aberdeen, Lehigh Valley in antiquated facilities) and after establishing credibility, they went to less volatile markets and emphasized quality facilties. I believe all parks are up to AA standards. And that's what sets it apart from other leagues in my opinion. I've been to many parks around the country and the Atlantic League has some really nice ones. I think Camden is one of my favorites of all time.

Besides Bridgeport and Newark, (Bridgeport has improved from last year at the gate), the rest are strong markets. Camden is fifth in attendance and reported being profitable, so the guys at the top must be really doing well.

Loudoun I think is a homerun. Actually its longest ride (to Bridgeport) would be five hours. Waldorf (Southern Maryland Blue Crabs) is 50 miles away with talk of adding another team in the Baltimore suburbs. It's an affluent area without any pro ball around. It's a recipe for success. My only concern is the Potomac Nationals want a new ballpark and one site mentioned is less than seven miles from this location. The group in Loudoun, VIP Baseball, seem to have strong financial backing, another that sets the league apart. I don't know where the GBL finds some of their owners from. Players not being paid, uniforms being repossessed, seriously? What an embarrassment.

Loudoun will be great, as will Sugar Land, as will Yonkers when it ever takes off. The league needs expansion. 140 game schedule with eight teams gets tiresome after a while but quality expansion is key and that's what appears to be happening. 2012 should be a big year for the league.

I hope that helps. Anyone, please correct me if you feel I'm mistaken or left anything out. Anyone care to make playoff predictions? I'm going with Patriots-Bluefish in the championship, but John Halama might rejoin Southern Maryland and that's trouble.

jidyfan
09-14-2010, 08:48 AM
Cyclone, just as an FYI, the ballparks are supposed to be to AAA standards. This is from the Atlantic League mission statement:

New AL facilities will fully comply with “Facility Standards” as defined by the National Association of Professional Baseball Leagues Inc. (“NA”), the governing body of minor league baseball. Players will be assured of field conditions that meet or exceed the standards for Triple AAA classification NA facilities. Communities must demonstrate market size sufficient to support a minimum ballpark size of 5,000 to 7,500 seats.

jidyfan
09-14-2010, 09:07 AM
Cyclone, I agree with you about 2012 and also about a Somerset-Bridgeport final. Bridgeport has gotten hot at the right time and I think they will defeat Somerset. Too bad no one will be at the games in Bridgeport to see it. Even with their playoff deal of pay only $20 for the same 4 playoff seats in any section in the ballpark (you are definitely guaranteed 2 games, if there is only one playoff home game then you get tickets to any game next season), I doubt they will draw an actual gate of 2500 for each game.

park city 9
09-14-2010, 01:41 PM
true: mon thru thurs, harbor yard in downtown Bridgeport ct rarely attracts more than 1500 fans. however, the weekends are consistently at 3/4+ capacity. due to the playoff games being played on the weekends I am confident that there will be butts in the seats. now the reason for the lackluster weekday attendence is surelybecause of a lack of marketing. when the bluefish were the "darlings of southern CT" there were kiosks in every shopping mall in the area and ads all over fairfield county. over the past three years I have failed to notice ANY marketing throughout the greater Bridgeport area, a place I live and work everyday. there has been a revival in the commercial and retail areas surrounding downtown Bridgeport over the past 18 months-- one would figure the various shops/restaurants and bars would work in kahoots with local sports teams offering promotional ideas and such.
I am a big fan and am looking forward to the playoffs- I want to see the fish around for years to come.

GoCyclones!
09-14-2010, 02:15 PM
I agree, Jids. They play some good baseball up in CT, I hope more fans come out for it.

So Park, what do you think about what's happening there, just comparing this season to last? Have you noticed improvements, more of an effort? More community outreach? Bigger weekend crowds? I feel this year less effort was made in Newark but Boulton made that comment about being proud of what was being done in Bridgeport and they'll do the same in Newark.

park city 9
09-14-2010, 03:02 PM
the play on the field has been stellar- especially during the second half run. I atribute that to the return of manage willie upshaw. although play on the field has been amazing, weekday crowds and promotions have not. like I addressed prior, there has been a resugence of downtown area bussinesess. I have not seen anything in relation to bluefish promoting in any of the stores or restarants. I think the reason people don't go to the ballpark on a Wednesday is because they are no aware it is going on. I understand that the Atlantic league wants to be looked at as family entertainment-- I am all for that. unfortunately the families tend to only come out on the weekends. what about a working class joe such as myself? I think these games are a blast on the weekdays- and cheaper than driving to the city for a Yankee or mets game. throw some flyers in the bars and pubs throughout the county- broadcast on local public access tv- get the community behind the club and let us feel like the bluefish are our hometown boys. I would like to see advertising for the fish playoff games guerilla style-- get the staff/mascot downtown and around the area to let people know they have a championship calliber professional baseball club in their backyard.

GoCyclones!
09-14-2010, 10:47 PM
Man, I heard it again today, an emphatic "they're done" said by someone with ties to the Ducks, talking about the Newark Bears. Again, it was inevitable and I can't say I'm surprised (who can?) but don't blow smoke up my butt talking about tickets for 2011 and Boulton saying how committed he is to Newark. I understand the team may have been hemorraging cash, fine, but be straight with me. Again, at least LeBron wasn't as misleading!

Well hopefully there'll only be strong markets now and I'd hate to see a nice park empty. It would be awesome to see afilliated ball there but don't think it'll happen with the Mets and Yanks territorial rights.

zuma jay
09-15-2010, 08:02 AM
Interesting cause I was at the Den in downtown Newark on Sunday...for the sole reason to attend the last Newark Bears home game in history.

I spoke with two Newark ballplayers and asked point blank if the Bears players had been told that the club would be a traveling squad next season. Both players told me there were team meetings to discuss the team's fate.

...and, both players said they were told at the team meetings that the Bears would play in Newark next year. One player said the Bears will be in Newark for at least the next two years...

I also spoke with some folks that work for the Bears. Everyone I spoke with indicated that the Bears would play next season in Newark...

Who really knows?

GoCyclones!
09-15-2010, 11:10 PM
You're right, Jay. Erroneous info coming from somewhere. Maybe no one really knows what the answer is yet. The truth will be revealed soon!

park city 9
09-16-2010, 02:05 PM
I wrote an email to the bluefish front office yesterday regarding the lack of promotions for the club. they responded very timely, this afternoon I recieved a reply. they informed me that the lack of local advertising is due to financial setbacks. according to the bluefish front office this was the first year they have been in the black for a while. I am very sensitive to the financial struggles of all in this economic climate- however- you can use the poor economy to your advantage. a "relatively affordable" night at the ballpark at the major league level may cost anywhere from 100-400 dollars soup to nuts- factoring in ticket price, parking, a dog, and a few beers. why not, if you are working for the Bridgeport bluefish, appeal to future fans by showing them that they can experience high level professional ball for a fraction of the price? I cannot see local, grassroots- gettin' out into the community type of promotional tactics breaking the bank.

jidyfan
09-16-2010, 07:45 PM
The Newark Bears today announced that all of their 2010 home and away jerseys will be auctioned off (http://www.newarkbears.com/news/index.html?article_id=1869).

This looks like another step towards the Bears becoming the Road Warriors next year. Why would a team in financial trouble sell off all of their uniforms if they intended on coming back next season?

GoCyclones!
09-16-2010, 11:14 PM
Yeah, Park, I don't get the not advertising idea either. I'm not a businessman but I would think you gotta spread the word. Just like the Bears, I don't understand how they just never advertised. I'm glad to hear they are turning a profit this year and maybe they're working on some sort of longer-term plan. I definitely plan on attending one of the playoff games next week.

Jids, I heard that, too and at first wasn't sure how much one should read into that. It does sound like a slash and burn sale, but then I remembered how the Ducks do that as well (although usually throughout the season). And the Patriots sell game-worn jerseys in their store. So again, I guess it's just wait and see!

Don't forget to vote for the name of the Sugar Land team!
http://www.namesugarlandsteam.com/vote-for-your-favorite/

I'm not really in love with any of the choices. I thought I liked the King Canes but I tried saying it a few times and doesn't quite flow smoothly but I like calling them the Canes.

jidyfan
09-17-2010, 12:54 PM
I don't like any of those names either. Also, they are wrong when they said that no other pro sports team name is the Lizards. In the Major League Lacrosse league the Long Island team is named the Lizards.

If I had to choose, I would take the Lizards because with that one you would be able to have an easily defined mascot. What would be your mascot for the King Canes or the Skeeters?

jidyfan
09-17-2010, 12:57 PM
When the Ducks auction off uniforms they are special uniforms that are only worn once or twice. They auction off patriotic jerseys that they wear twice during the year and then for breast cancer awareness day, they auction off the pink jerseys and pink bats that they used for that day only.

beatman10
09-18-2010, 09:21 AM
that the team is coming back in 2011 if they know they're folding benefits the Newark Bears in any way. Unless they have some legal obligations that prevent them from announcing they are leaving until the season is officially over, I just don't see why they would tell fans they will be back and then pull a switcheroo. Too bad I can't be a fly on the wall at their meetings.

GoCyclones!
09-19-2010, 09:03 PM
Yeah, Beatman, good point. I got to make it down to a full house at Campbell's Field in Camden for the final game of the season. I've been there a few times and I still find it breath taking each time. One of the best in country. Anyway, I asked several players if they knew anything about next season, including player/coach Willie Banks who one would expect to have more insight, and I was told each time that they didn't know and there would be a meeting after the season with league officials that will determine their fate. Again, I believe no one really knows and we'll just have to wait and see!

I did talk to a regular at the Den and he shared with me some fun rumors. First one has the Bears staying one more season with Raines moving to the front office and Karkovice taking over managerial duties. Next one was the very small chance of a NYPL team moving in. Would the Mets or Yanks allow that? Unlikely. He said something he heard was the Sussex Skyhawks owner of the Can Am isn't happy with their situation. So perhaps that team moving to Newark and the NY-Penn League (Batavia) going back to Sussex. I'm a NYPL fan so I'd like another team nearby but if the Bears in the Atlantic League wasn't successful, would a Can-Am version fare better? I'm not sure about that. Sure, shorter season but I like the Atlantic League better. I would go to a few of those games, but would be more likely to head to Somerset or LI instead. I asked a couple season ticket holders if they'd support a Can-Am version of the Bears and they said no. Who knows though? I did hear that plans for that Ramapo park for the CA fell through though.

Although there's no answer yet, it's fun to speculate!

toad455
09-20-2010, 05:48 PM
could next season simply see the Loudoun County team replace the Bears to keep the league at 8 teams. Then in 2012 they add Sugar Land, plus three more midwest teams to have the league at twelve.

HeadFirst
09-21-2010, 01:00 AM
Today, Tuesday, 21 September, the new Atlantic League franchise in Northern Virginia gets a name, and a look, and a personality, and a website.

We announce who we are to the world in an event simulcast on VIPbaseball.net live from 1757 Golf Club in Ashburn, Virginia, featuring AtL Exec Dir Joe Klein and MLB HOFer Harmon Killebrew at 7:05 pm ET.

(I can't, technically, tell you or anyone else what the name is, but around here, it's a poorly kept secret.)

Also, FYI, we have been conditionally awarded an AtL franchise, and that will become formal shortly. It's a matter of proving financing we already have principly in place. It's looking real good.

Headfirst

GoCyclones!
09-21-2010, 11:14 AM
Toad, the Loudoun team isn't expected to play until 2012. But that may be the next home of the Bears.

HeadFirst, thanks for the update. I'm looking forward to the announcement and thanks for not ruining the surprise. I liked the choices (unlike Sugar Land's choices). Virginia Silver Stars (although isn't that a WNBA team) and Loudoun Hounds sound good to me! I though financing was in place already with VIP baseball? I appreciate any news on further developments.

I found it interesting news hearing that Amarillo, the ULB's most popular team, is facing legal trouble with back rent issues and may cast doubt as far as the league's schedule for this season. In the Atlantic League's quest for a western division, this could be a possible location for a team. My man, Charlie Z (charliesballparks.com) doesn't rate any of those parks as a great facility, although he told me that a couple are decent facilities that could use upgrades. I tried to ask some league officials about a possible merger but they were very tight lipped about it and I guess it's still very early on in the process. Although Sugar Land seems to be moving full steam ahead, my experience has been it's rare that a park and team are ready by their expected start date, so wouldn't be surprised if this is pushed back. But I guess in Texas they can still do construction work in the winter.

park city 9
09-21-2010, 06:51 PM
not bad uniforms. the puppy dog needs to be a little meaner though.

jidyfan
09-21-2010, 07:29 PM
The LOUDON HOUNDS are here. Here is a link to their press release.
http://www.loudounhounds.com/unleashthehounds.php

Here is a link to their web site.
http://www.loudounhounds.com/

toad455
09-21-2010, 10:16 PM
anyone else know anything about this potential team in Rockville, Maryland?? Opening Day Partners are looking to build a stadium there. Could they be ready by 2012 as well??

www.openingdaypartners.com

HeadFirst
09-21-2010, 11:09 PM
anyone else know anything about this potential team in Rockville, Maryland?? Opening Day Partners are looking to build a stadium there. Could they be ready by 2012 as well??

www.openingdaypartners.com


The Atlantic League would like to have a franchise in Maryland markets Montgomery County or Columbia, but that would not be in time for 2012.

Loudoun is coming in to the AtL with Sugar Land, Texas.

HeadFirst
09-21-2010, 11:11 PM
not bad uniforms. the puppy dog needs to be a little meaner though.

We deliberately designed him to be mischievous, cunning, devious, and deliberately not mean-looking.

GoCyclones!
09-22-2010, 06:48 AM
I like it! I like the name, the logo. I could imagine the crowd howling to get a rally going. Good job!

And Toad, I believe regarding Montgomery Co., MD at this stage it's only a proposal. I admire the work of ODP and a Brooks Robinson facility with it sounds interesting and promising but that's still a ways away. Even if everything were accepted and approved this morning, they wouldn't be ready for 2012.

Also don't forget, they say in Yonkers, NY this River Park Center with a rooftop stadium for an Atlantic League team will get built. Groundbreaking expected for Spring 2011. That won't be ready before 2013 though.

jidyfan
09-23-2010, 03:58 PM
Strong rumor circulating that Frank Boulton has just about completed a deal to sell controlling interest of the Ducks to Seth Waugh. Waugh joined the Ducks this year as a minority shareholder.

Seth is Chairman of the Deutsche Bank Securities Inc. (DBSI) Board of Directors and serves as Chairman of the Board, CEO and President of several Deutsche Bank companies including Deutsche Bank Trust Company Americas and Deutsche Bank Trust Corporation. He will supposedly be a silent partner with the Ducks.

It must have been quite an offer from Waugh for Boulton to give up his moneymaker team.

GoCyclones!
09-23-2010, 10:39 PM
Yeah, I heard about that. I think they talked about that at the beginning of the season. But I believe he still owns more than 50 percent of the team. This is his quote about it:

“I took on a partner, (Deutsche Bank Americas CEO) Seth Waugh. He is a part owner who is going to be involved … (but) I still control more than 50 percent of this team.”

“I’m just a busy guy. What it means is there was an opportunity for me to take on a really strong partner. He can be a good partner just in his connections alone.”


This Bridgeport team is looking pretty unbeatable right about now! They might not lose a game at all this postseason.

jidyfan
09-24-2010, 06:40 AM
Yeah, that was at the beginning of the season but the latest word is that he is giving up controlling interest in the Ducks to Waugh because he is looking to go to other areas. He is interested in developing another team in New England or possibly getting in on the Texas expansion. It also was said that Buddy has sold most of his interest in the team and he will be staying on as a salaried employee.

GoCyclones!
09-24-2010, 10:24 AM
Interesting. Thanks for the info. I was up late one night really thoroughly looking at the whole New England area, I couldn't really come up with a suitable place to put a ballpark. It seems pretty saturated to me. The Boston area would be ideal but there are teams to the north, south and west in Worcester, Brockton and Lowell to compete with, plus Pawtucket is down the road. Springfield, MA maybe but its in the Hartford area, which has a team, and is a pretty depressed city. Not sure if they'd fund a new park. There were the old rumors of Danbury, CT but no news has come out of there for a couple years plus 35 miles from Troy. I think Stamford, CT would do well but would probably adversely affect the Bridgeport crowd. I can't see a place in NH, VT, RI or ME that would work well. Who knows? Who wouldve thought a park in Camden, NJ would've done well!

That Texas expansion seems to be a new gold rush. Someone shared with me recently how they got to talk to Gary Gaetti at a game one day as he was watching his son play for Lancaster, and he was talking about getting involved in one of the Texas teams as well. I like that they getting former big leaguers involved. It adds more credibilty compared to some of those stories you hear out west.

GoCyclones!
09-24-2010, 10:32 AM
Correction, I meant Danbury is 35 miles from Fishkill (HV Renegades) not Troy.

jidyfan
09-30-2010, 11:02 AM
Peter Kirk and Opening Day Partners are trying to bring a team to Frederick, MD for next season. They are trying to get a lease on their existing stadium.

Here is the link to the story:
http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/yb/150453986

GoCyclones!
09-30-2010, 11:15 AM
Hmm, interesting. Thanks for the link, Jids. So they would share the stadium with the Keys? Wow, how's that gonna work? But it'll happen next in Lake Elsinore, CA.

GoCyclones!
09-30-2010, 12:15 PM
I had to reread it. So it's only if the Keys don't renew their lease. Good move by the AtL to try to make moves. I wouldn't see why the Keys wouldn't re-up though.

jidyfan
09-30-2010, 04:08 PM
I checked their website to see how many seats the stadium but I couldn't find it. Since they are a A adv team, I wonder if their stadium conforms to the AAA standards that the Atlantic League requires.

GoCyclones!
10-01-2010, 09:56 AM
Here's the review from my man Charlie Z from CharliesBallparks.com of the home of the Frederick Keys. Looks like a pretty decent facility, typical of those built in the early '90s.

http://mysite.verizon.net/charliesballparks/stadiums/frederik.htm

I commend the League for being aggressive in looking for new markets, but I'd be very surprised if the Keys don't go back. How well would the market support an indy team if they lose an affiliated team, especially an Orioles affiliate? Anything can happen though.

I find it interesting the news about the Amarillo Dillas being on the verge of eviction. BallparkDigest.com is reporting they'd expect the American Association to jump in there. It averaged almost 3,000 game in an antequated facility. I wonder if the Atlantic League is looking into it as well. It would be a good fit for the AA.

Here's the link to the article:

http://www.ballparkdigest.com/201010013151/independent-baseball/news/ulb-misses-final-dillas-payment-team-could-be-evicted-today

And here's the review of the ballpark. Not a very attractive looking park... I'm a fan of classic parks but I don't think this would be up to Atlantic League standards.

http://mysite.verizon.net/charliesballparks/stadiums/potter.htm

GoCyclones!
10-01-2010, 10:14 AM
Here are a couple more articles on this Frederick story by Revs writer Jim Seip.

http://www.ydr.com/revolution/ci_16210717

http://www.ydr.com/revolution/ci_16220859

Peter Kirk making moves! I like it!

jidyfan
10-01-2010, 11:40 AM
The Bears got new ownership yesterday and they are trying to get into the Can-Am league. Here is a link to the story:

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2010/10/under_new_ownership_newark_bea.html

jidyfan
10-01-2010, 12:07 PM
If the stadium in Frederick, MD only holds 5300, I don't think that complies with the AAA standard in terms of minimum seating allowed that the Atlantic League follows. They will have to add some more seating to meet the league requirements.

GoCyclones!
10-01-2010, 01:11 PM
Thanks for the link about Newark. Can't say I'm surprised but when the news comes it still a bit of a shock to the system. I like the Atlantic League. I'd go to some Bears games of course but I'd probably go down to somerset more or Long Island. Nice diplomatic answer by Cetnar saying, he's switching to the National League. Sound nice not quite accurate. I like the Can-Am too though.

In one of the articles by Jim Seip he said that they would make some renovations to the park but all Atlantic League parks are in about the 5-6,000 range. The one in Loudoun I believe is less than 6,000. So when they say AAA standards it can't be just on seating capacity. Most AAA are obviously bigger than 6,000.

ca
10-01-2010, 10:29 PM
newark this may explain why they want fredrick but what happen to the keys if the atl gets their pk ?

beatman10
10-02-2010, 07:52 AM
regardless if they stay in the Atlantic League or move to the Can Am League. Bur, really, if there isn't better media coverage, and a better job of promoting and advertising the team, then things won't get any better. If the organization wants to turn it around, they need to start NOW, and not 3 weeks before the season begins. With the bad economy, families have to plan well in advance which activities they will spend money on. Start advertising your 2011 ticket plans and new merchandise in November just in time for the Christmas season. Let the fans know YOU ARE THERE! I think a lot of people still think the team has folded after the 2008 season since the Star Ledger did such a "wonderful" job of reporting of the team's demise. And why they STILL don't cover the team is a mystery to me.

jidyfan
10-02-2010, 03:49 PM
I'm sure they will start marketing their team once they find out if they are allowed in the Can-Am league.

GoCyclones!
10-02-2010, 11:12 PM
Talk of the Newark Bears was a popular topic here at Harbor Yard tonight. One guy mentioned to me he heard the Bears would be leaving for the Can-Am after next season, replacing the Sussex Skyhawks. I guess we'll have an answer at the end of this week as I think they'll have their meetings this week.

GoCyclones!
10-03-2010, 08:07 AM
I agree with Beatman. I'll continue to support the team. I love the Atlantic League but Can Am is good baseball too. And it's better than the alternative of having the stadium sit empty. I wonder why the Star Ledger doesn't cover the Bears at all. They should support positive things in the city.

jidyfan
10-06-2010, 04:24 PM
It's official. The Newark Bears have moved to the Can-Am league.
http://www.atlanticleague.com/cgi-bin/dist/news.cgi?id=1286391799

jidyfan
10-06-2010, 04:41 PM
In addition to the Bears leaving, Ryan Dunleavy wrote this in an article on the Bears:

If the Can-Am League approves the addition of the Bears, Boulton said the Road Warriors – an Atlantic League-operated traveling farm franchise – will be reinstated and the 140-game schedule will be reduced to 126 games for the 2011 season. That was the exact set-up from 2002-04 and 2006-07.

park city 9
10-06-2010, 05:34 PM
so the road warrior will be in the liberty division?

LaVidaLoca
10-07-2010, 10:31 AM
So who will the Atl League add? They won't play with 7 teams. Or will they lose another team? They have something in the works...we'll see in the next 2 weeks who it is or isn't. CanAm still 4th or 5th in Indy ball but this helps them.

DCAbloob
10-07-2010, 11:56 AM
So who will the Atl League add? They won't play with 7 teams. Or will they lose another team? They have something in the works...we'll see in the next 2 weeks who it is or isn't. CanAm still 4th or 5th in Indy ball but this helps them.

Jidyfan already has the answer to that one, a league owned travel team called the Road Warriors will be set up to fill the eighth slot.

GoCyclones!
10-14-2010, 11:58 PM
I ran into a former high-ranking member of the Bears front office who told me that they were BLEEDING cash. They lost something like $3 million in 2009. I really do wish them well in the Can-Am and it beats the alternative of the park sitting empty. How can they turn that around though? Like SurfFan said, the Can-Am is where Atlantic League teams go to die...

GoCyclones!
10-19-2010, 12:33 PM
I read an article that I found interesting (I can't seem to post the link from my phone though) about Amarillo, TX laying the groundwork for a new downtown stadium. With the ULB already evicted, I wonder if Potter County Stadium will be a temporary home in the Southwest Division for 2012. Although it's ten hours from Sugar Land (yikes!) Waco is along the way which has long been rumored as a location for a team, and it is midway between OK City and Albuquerque, potentially setting up expansion in other states. Although there don't appear to be any major markets open enroute to OKC.

I also read that the American Association, specifically the owner of the Shreveport Captains, is really looking into this location, which by most accounts seems to draw very well in an old facility. What would they do in a new one?

park city 9
10-19-2010, 04:13 PM
How does the Atlantic League expect the ball clubs to pay for transportation from the east coast to Texas and beyond? Bridgeport to So. Maryland is roughly a 6 1/2 hour ride by bus. In order to get teams to the middle of the country the teams will have to pay for air fare. Will there be a two divisional system where playing each other will only occur in the playoffs? Will the two divisions only play each other at certain times of the season? I am confused at the method of scheduling the Atlantic League will imply once the Western/Southern division is created.

GoCyclones!
10-19-2010, 11:53 PM
How does the Atlantic League expect the ball clubs to pay for transportation from the east coast to Texas and beyond? Bridgeport to So. Maryland is roughly a 6 1/2 hour ride by bus. In order to get teams to the middle of the country the teams will have to pay for air fare. Will there be a two divisional system where playing each other will only occur in the playoffs? Will the two divisions only play each other at certain times of the season? I am confused at the method of scheduling the Atlantic League will imply once the Western/Southern division is created.

It's been discussed here already but the plan I believe is each team in the eastern division will make two trips out west a season. The schedule will increase to 144 games, with the extra four games going toward travel expenses.

jidyfan
10-20-2010, 12:07 PM
Butch Hobson was named the new manager of the Lancaster Barnstormers yesterday. He will be replacing Tommy Herr whose contract was bought out.

http://www.fox43.com/news/wpmt-barnstormers-name-new-manager,0,4923661.story

toad455
11-08-2010, 11:52 PM
So basically for 2012, the league should look something like this(I would like them to go back to alligning the divisions by locations):

NORTH
Bridgeport
Long Island
Somerset
Camden

CENTRAL
Lancaster
York
Southern Maryland
Loudoun

MIDWEST
Sugar Land
Waco, TX?
Biloxi, MS?
Shreveport, LA??

of course the "Midwest divison" is clearly speculation and will only occur if the league gets the right amount of teams in that area.

GoCyclones!
11-10-2010, 11:10 PM
Sugar land seems to be going full steam ahead, so I wouldn't call that speculation but everything after that seems to be guesswork. An Atlantic League buddy of mine recently mentioned to me that he heard something about Shreveport getting involved. I didn't give it much thought as they have an AA team there already, but I found it interesting that the owner of the Shreveport Captains was awarded control of a lease to place a team in Amarillo, TX, and may end up moving the Captains there. They averaged 1,500 in a facility built in 1986.

I was happy to hear that the Queen of Diamonds will now be providing coverage for all Atlantic League teams (LisaWinston.com). I'm constantly amazed at how little coverage the Long Island Ducks get. Interesting piece on 2009 MVP Ray Navarrete and his clothing line.

jidyfan
11-16-2010, 12:55 PM
Here is an article from Newsday in regards to getting an Atlantic League team in Nassau County, NY for 2012.
----------------------------------------------------
Nassau takes steps to lure minor league baseball team

Originally published: November 15, 2010 7:05 PM
Updated: November 15, 2010 10:34 PM

By WILLIAM MURPHY william.murphy@newsday.com

Nassau County hopes to break ground by the spring of 2012 at the latest on a new minor league stadium, with construction funding guaranteed by the county but payments to be made by the team, county officials said Monday.

County Executive Edward Mangano said he was in talks with the Atlantic League, a private entity with seven teams, including the Long Island Ducks in Central Islip. He said he hoped a Nassau team would be a new one that would play its first game here.

"It is our intention to launch a public-private partnership and have a team in the Mitchel Field area. It would create jobs and low-cost entertainment. It's very real and we're going to be launching an effort to build the minor league stadium in the 2011-2012 time frame," he said in an interview.

He said he hopes to issue a formal request by January to have private firms submit bids on the design of a new stadium.

Mangano commented on the plan after the stadium bonding popped up during Nassau County Legislature committee meetings that were considering the county's $166 million capital budget for next year. That budget was passed through committees with little comment and was scheduled for a public hearing by the full legislature on Dec. 6.

Democratic Legis. David Denenberg of Merrick, the lead negotiator for the Democratic minority, said none of his Democratic colleagues had been briefed on the stadium plan. Republicans hold an 11-8 edge in the legislature but need Democratic support to get the 13 votes needed to approve bonding.

"I'd like to hear more about it before I decide," Denenberg said after the meeting. "It might be great, but it's news to me and I want to know that we have a commitment to get a team here, and that the proposal will work, before I will commit taxpayer financing."

Frank Boulton, chief executive and principal owner of the Long Island Ducks, said he believed the proposal might come to fruition.

"It's been percolating for years, and now it seems to have some support from the county executive and his staff, and we're excited," Boulton said. "It would be great to have a new team that would compete in the Atlantic League and it would be a great rivalry."

jidyfan
11-17-2010, 11:56 AM
This is from the Ducks web site:

(Central Islip, N.Y., November 17, 2010) – The Long Island Ducks today announced that former New York Met and Ducks’ infielder/coach Kevin Baez has been named the fifth manager in the history of the franchise.


“I’m thrilled to have this opportunity,” said Baez. “The fans of Long Island can look forward to seeing a strong ballclub on the field next year.”

2011 will be Baez’ seventh season with the Ducks, the previous six years having been spent as a coach. The former Ducks and big league infielder became a full-time coach with Long Island on May 20, 2005, and also spent the entire 2006, 2008, 2009 and 2010 seasons with the club.

“As we head into our 12th season, we are excited to have Kevin lead our team,” says Ducks CEO/owner Frank Boulton. “He brings a wealth of experience as a player and a coach, and I am certain he will enjoy great success at the helm.”

The Long Island resident will begin work immediately with the front office to build out the 2011 Ducks’ coaching staff.

“Kevin has earned his shot,” said GM Michael Pfaff. “He’s been a part of our family for a long time and we’re confident he can lead us to a championship.”

Baez was a vital member of the Ducks’ 2004 championship team, batting .256 with 36 runs scored and 40 RBI in 98 games played. He took home MVP honors at the Atlantic League All-Star Game that year with a 2-for-4, two RBI performance in the North’s 10-8 victory over the South at Campbell’s Field in Camden. In the 2004 playoffs, Baez hit .263 en route to his first professional baseball championship. The Brooklyn native was named to three Atlantic League All-Star teams during his playing career.

“Kevin’s always been a hard worker,” added Senior VP of Baseball Operations Bud Harrelson. “He’s been a great player and coach and I think he’ll be a great manager as well”

The 43-year-old is a veteran of 63 Major League and 1,750 minor league contests. He made three stops in the big leagues with the Mets (1990, 1991, 1993), and made his MLB debut on September 3, 1990 under then-Mets manager Bud Harrelson. He registered career highs in hits (113) and doubles (27) in 2000 with the Norfolk Tides (AAA, Mets).

GoCyclones!
11-18-2010, 11:47 PM
Thanks for the update, Jids. I knew Nassau was part of the Lighthouse Project plan but didn't know there were plans independent of the Lighthouse Project. This should be a good draw (provided it's not in the middle of Hempstead!) and should be a fun rivalry with the Ducks.

Glad to see Baez, a Brooklyn guy, get the gig. Good luck, KB!

I can't help but feel the Atlantic League made a mistake not trying to get into Amarillo. Now there's talk of plans of a new downtown stadium in Amarillo. I've been optimistic about this western expansion but some clouds of doubt have set in.

jidyfan
12-01-2010, 04:29 PM
Well, the verdict is in. The new Sugar Land team will be the Skeeters. They announced it today. Here is a link to their website.
http://sugarlandskeeters.com

park city 9
12-02-2010, 07:21 AM
awesome logo!

GoCyclones!
12-22-2010, 09:54 AM
BallparkDigest.com is reporting that an investor is looking to put a privately financed park in the northern Boston suburbs for indy ball and the Atlantic League would be a better fit than the Can-Am. Interesting proposal. Lowell Spinners aren't far away. Yes, the season is half as long but could the away support them both?

dmbishop
06-18-2011, 08:22 PM
http://www.newsday.com/sports/local/ducks/mets-li-ducks-submit-minor-league-plans-1.2965982

The LI Ducks and the New York Mets submitted plans to put a team in the proposed ballpark being considered for the redeveloped Nassau Coliseum area. Only one team will be placed in the park, with the decision expected to be made in the next few weeks.

Of course, that's all dependent on us Nassau County voters approving the $400,000,000.00 bond that the County wants to float to cover the project.

Dave

Duckfan
06-19-2011, 12:15 AM
An affiliated team, especially if it's Double A or better, could spell the beginning of the end for the Ducks and possibly the entire League. After a decade of overfilling their park, the Ducks slipped slightly in 2010 and so far in 2011, the Duck's attendance has taken a substantial dip. Season ticket and 10 pack subscriptions, the backbone of their attendance figures, have dropped dramatically this year.
An affiliated team 25 miles away will erode that even further. Many of the Duck's fans come from the area surrounding the proposed new ballpark. Let's face it, fans are not going to travel 25 miles east to see Independent Baseball when they have an affiliated team in their own backyard.
Since their inception the Ducks fans have been used to subsidize the weaker teams in the League in an attempt to keep them afloat. It started with the AC Surf, then the Nashua Pride, the Newark Bears and now the Bridgeport Bluefish. The Ducks principal owner has never given his full attention to the Ducks. If the attendance average drops to 3000 or so, the days of subsidizing other teams are over. The Fish are just going to have to go belly up.
The people in Texas and other places who are considering buying franchises in the Atlantic League have been sold on the idea that Long Island has a long history of selling more tickets than they have seats. When they see half of those seats are now empty and that some of the current teams are going bankrupt, they're going to have to seriously reconsider the proposition.
Fan loyalty on Long Island is going to be a serious problem. The Ducks management has never bothered to build a winning tradition. Theirs is a tradition of losing. They never get the job done. Second place is just not good enough any more, especially after 10 years.
There's a reason why the Yankees draw over 3 million every year and why every kid in the world has a Yankee cap. Heck, if you watch the News, you'll see people in Afghanistan wearing Yankee hats. You will not see them wearing Mets' hats or Kansas City Royals hats. The reason for that is people like winners. The Patriots have kicked the Ducks' butts for over a decade now. Even the defunct Newark Bears have more Championships than the Ducks. Boulton doesn't seem to care. It's going to cost him and it's going to cost the League.

GoCyclones!
06-19-2011, 10:01 PM
Thanks, Dave, for the link. Not being a subscriber I was only able to read half of the article. So are these proposals independent of the Islanders' plans? I'm a fan of the Atlantic League but I think I'm rooting for the Mets on this one.

Duckfan, that's a lot of whining for a team that has the best record in the league. I think it will affect the Ducks but not mean their impending demise. Boulton supporting the Bears actually benefitted the Ducks this season as they had first crack at all the former Bears when the team folded, which I think was a bit odd and makes me question the credibility of the league a bit. The Ducks have made several postseason appearances the past few seasons. Unfortunately Boulton can't pitch or hit so he may be to blame there, but otherwise your allegations are a little misguided. I don't totally disagree with you in the sense that I think the Ducks' main concern is selling tickets, whereas I feel the Patriots do a great job at selling an experience.

The Yanks win because they spend the most. That cannot be done in the Atlantic League because of salary restrictions.

dmbishop
06-20-2011, 07:39 PM
Here's a link to the article on Newsday's mobile site that's not behind their paywall.

http://mobile.newsday.com/inf/infomo;JSESSIONID=41BFE81491D13BAD3FC8.3119?site=n ewsday&view=sports_item&feed:a=newsday_5min&feed:c=sports&feed:i=1.2965982

The vote on the proposal is August 1st. One plan, all or nothing.

Dave

dmbishop
06-21-2011, 11:37 AM
Well, now it looks like Nassau County has made a backroom deal to give Wong control of the entire Coliseum area.

http://mobile.newsday.com/inf/infomo;JSESSIONID=E3C74396CB3647B05F3D.3119?site=n ewsday&view=politics_item&feed:a=newsday_1min&feed:c=politics&feed:i=1.2971870

Dave

BlastFan
06-21-2011, 12:05 PM
And the Somerset Patriots who [had] a worse record than even the Road Warriors were still drawing high numbers so far this year. Records aren't everything.

I do, however, see the Sugarland team owned by ODP going affiliated before they start with the ATL. There's just no way they are going to find a set of teams to play.

GoCyclones!
06-21-2011, 05:30 PM
Thanks again, Dave, for the update.

They cannot go affiliated as the Astros own the territory. The Astros were first contacted about a partnership with the Sugar Land team, and for reasons that I just can't comprehend, declined involvement. So the Astros have to approve any affiliated team entering their territory, but already stated they weren't interested in taking part in the Sugar Land project.

It's entirely possible that there is something in the works that just isn't being made public. I certainly hope so, as I doubt they would get into this without other possibilities existing. LSU has a shiny new ballpark in Baton Rouge that could be shared. If Amarillo or Shreveport or any franchise in the shady NAL is part of the equation, I could see why that wouldn't be discussed until after the season.

Supposedly there's a group looking to bring pro baseball back to Atlantic City. The City has pumped money toward necessary repairs after neglect and vandalism left the Sandcastle in bad shape. I'd love for this to happen and I could see maybe this working out for a short-season NY-Penn League team, but I won't hold my breath. I'd also rather see a team placed in the former home of the NJ Cardinals/Sussex Skyhawks, at least temporarily, than another year of the Road Warriors. Nice park sitting empty. Although in the middle of nowhere, New Jersey. Why not gauge local interest by playing a series or two there?

Wow, could this be the first year the Ducks finish second in attendance? Let's see how it goes once school lets out. I don't know how I missed that Pedro Feliz of the 2008 champion Phillies in playing in Camden. I gotta check that out! Eddy Ramos was the most clutch late-inning reliever in the Puerto Rican League Playoffs. I could see him helping out a contending team in the second half.

GoCyclones!
06-22-2011, 01:07 PM
Also congrats to former Bluefish Wily Mo Pena, described as one of the game's gentle giants. I got to see him play last week in Reno, where he was raking! Albeit in the rarified air. In less than a year goes from Bridgeport to the Majors.

BlastFan
06-22-2011, 03:43 PM
Wow. I remember when he played for the Nats. And Feliz name sounded familiar but I didn't put him with the phillies.

dmbishop
07-10-2011, 08:12 PM
Newsday
Published: July 10, 2011 7:54 PM
By ROBERT BRODSKY

Nassau County is one step closer to an Expressway Series.

Long Island Ducks' owner Frank Boulton's bid to bring a minor league baseball team to Nassau was approved Friday by a committee of county officials. The choice of Boulton over a joint bid by the New York Mets and Syosset developer David Blumenfeld will be announced Monday county officials said.

I'll get you a link that's not behind Newsday's paywall ASAP.

Dave

skippy
07-11-2011, 02:14 AM
That's great news!

Congrats Atlantic League.

As far as the SW, I would be willing to bet the ATL League could steal El Paso from the AA.

The town, the media, the government, is SICK of the non-competitive team they've trotted out in that town since they went independent. The Diablos are so bad they take players from the Continental Baseball League travel team last year.

GoCyclones!
07-11-2011, 10:28 AM
Wow, thanks for the info, Dave. I was kind of rooting for the Mets on this one. Now does this mean it's a done deal or only if the Lighthouse Project goes through?

Regarding the El Paso, I read something where folks are looking to improve the stadium but would prefer to do so if they can attract an affiliated team. The Tuscon Padres are an option there. Who knows, maybe a switch to the AL would work. It's still quite a ride though to Sugar Land. 10 1/2 hours. Again, I don't like the idea of raiding other markets, of "stealing" teams unless they're looking for a change.

dmbishop
07-11-2011, 01:40 PM
Now does this mean it's a done deal or only if the Lighthouse Project goes through?

We (Nassau County) get to vote on August 1st about whether or not we want to float the $400,000,000 bond for the construction. If it passes, then the ballpark will be built, if not, the whole plan is scrapped. BTW, the baseball stadium is only $25,000,000 of the total.

There isn't any "organized" opposition to the project, but a number of groups have spoken out against it. If I had to guess, it's probably running about 55/45 for the project.

Lighthouse is a fading memory. This project is essentially just a new Nassau Coliseum, the ballpark, and some commercial development.

Dave

Duckfan
07-11-2011, 08:06 PM
It's my understanding that even if the Referendum passes it's not a done deal. NIFA still has to approve it. It's hard to believe that a County that's laying off a substantial number of Government workers and freezing wages for others has the extra bucks lying around to fund this type of project. I personally would love to see a team in Nassau(I live in Suffolk) but not at the expense of the County Employees. Long Island is a really expensive place to live and jobs are hard to come by.

GoCyclones!
07-12-2011, 04:15 AM
Yeah, good point, Duckfan. How can they justify laying people off, oh but we have $400,000,000 hidden away. I think it'll get done though. LI doesn't want to lose the Islanders. They'll give the boost-to-the-local-economy lines and how it provides jobs, albeit seasonal, minimum-wage jobs. But good for the Atlantic League. I wonder how they got the nod over the Mets though.

On the City of Yonkers website it shows an expected start date of the construction on the River Park Center, with a rooftop stadium for an Atlantic League team, to begin in fall of 2011. I've learned never to trust these construction dates expected start times, but it's good to hear something about it.

Although it's only July it's interesting to see the Ducks no longer the cream of the crop attendance-wise in indy ball, despite having the best record in the league. They did recently surpass the Patriots in attendance, but still trail the Winnipeg Goldeyes by a few hundred. I wonder if it's a byproduct of the Road Warriors team joining the league, usually lower-drawing games and I personally am not a fan of those games, or could interest simply be waning this year? It is still early in the summer though. But they have a way to go to reach their yearly average of 6,000 fans per game.

I think I mentioned this already but there's a group looking to bring baseball back to AC. I don't know how realisitic it is but on the Facebook page of the Atlantic City Surf they seem to be drumming up a lot of interest. They say their first choice would be to try to get back into the Atlantic League. Can this work again? I think a short-season New York-Penn League team would be the best bet here.

dmbishop
07-12-2011, 07:04 AM
Yeah, good point, Duckfan. How can they justify laying people off, oh but we have $400,000,000 hidden away. I think it'll get done though. LI doesn't want to lose the Islanders. They'll give the boost-to-the-local-economy lines and how it provides jobs, albeit seasonal, minimum-wage jobs. But good for the Atlantic League. I wonder how they got the nod over the Mets though.

Remember, this whole thing is really just about keeping the Islanders. The rest of it is window-dressing. If they wanted to maximize the use of the area, you think that they would at least put in a parking garage in the plans, but no, the project will be in the middle of a concrete ocean.

But, I digress... :)

The inside reason why the Atlantic League was chosen over the Mets' plan was because of the Yankees. Ready for this? The Yankees would have to approve any team moving into the NY market and there were no assurances from them that they would allow an affiliated minor-league team to be placed there. Of course, the Atlantic League team was already "approved". It wasn't about money. From what I heard, the difference between the proposals was only about $200,000 a year in revenue. The County was just worried about being left with a nice new stadium and no team.

Dave

dmbishop
07-12-2011, 07:13 AM
It's my understanding that even if the Referendum passes it's not a done deal. NIFA still has to approve it. It's hard to believe that a County that's laying off a substantial number of Government workers and freezing wages for others has the extra bucks lying around to fund this type of project. I personally would love to see a team in Nassau(I live in Suffolk) but not at the expense of the County Employees. Long Island is a really expensive place to live and jobs are hard to come by.

You are absolutely right. Not only does NIFA have to approve it (for those of you not in the area, NIFA is the Nassau Interim Finance Authority, a state-run group that oversees the county finances since last year because it was in such bad shape) but the County Legislature also has to approve the plan. And with the Legislature split 7-6, expect a fight.

So, even if it gets approved on 8/1, it is a long way from a done deal.

As far as the laying off of workers, while it does suck (my mother worked for Nassau County for 25 years), the $400M is a new "tax" that we have to deal with, it is not revenue that is being moved from one area to another. If the Coliseum plan had been approved a year ago, those workers unfortunately still would have been laid off.

Dave

GoCyclones!
07-12-2011, 07:08 PM
Thanks very much for your insight, Dave. Much appreciated! Please keep us updated.

jidyfan
07-14-2011, 06:10 PM
Remember, this whole thing is really just about keeping the Islanders. The rest of it is window-dressing. If they wanted to maximize the use of the area, you think that they would at least put in a parking garage in the plans, but no, the project will be in the middle of a concrete ocean.

But, I digress... :)

The inside reason why the Atlantic League was chosen over the Mets' plan was because of the Yankees. Ready for this? The Yankees would have to approve any team moving into the NY market and there were no assurances from them that they would allow an affiliated minor-league team to be placed there. Of course, the Atlantic League team was already "approved". It wasn't about money. From what I heard, the difference between the proposals was only about $200,000 a year in revenue. The County was just worried about being left with a nice new stadium and no team.

Dave

Dave, this is how the Atlantic League was formed. Frank Boulton owned the Albany-Colony Yankees and wanted to move them to Long Island. The Mets would not allow the Yankees to make the move. Frank then sold that team and formed his own independent league, the Altantic League.

dmbishop
07-24-2011, 12:54 PM
http://mobile.newsday.com/inf/infomo;JSESSIONID=3EEDB06548C6DBA948FE.3133?site=n ewsday&view=politics_item&feed:a=newsday_1min&feed:c=politics&feed:i=1.3047201

In a nutshell :

51% against the project
36% for the project
12% undecided

Dave

GoCyclones!
07-25-2011, 10:18 PM
I can't imagine Long Islanders would be willing to allow the Islanders to leave, especially when a brand new arena is being built in Brooklyn. Wang could use it as leverage. To be clear, if the new Islanders' arena falls through, then the ballpark plans fall through as well?

dmbishop
07-26-2011, 03:02 PM
I can't imagine Long Islanders would be willing to allow the Islanders to leave, especially when a brand new arena is being built in Brooklyn. Wang could use it as leverage. To be clear, if the new Islanders' arena falls through, then the ballpark plans fall through as well?

Yup, it's an all or nothing situation.

Just finished listening to Wang and the County Exec on Mike Francesca's show on WFAN. You can tell that they are nervous that it is going to fail. Wang said that the Islanders are gone if the vote fails and the County Exec talked about how the Coliseum would probably have to close because it would be too expensive to keep open (quality of life, etc.).

Since this is a thread about the Atlantic League, I'll tell you that the County Exec spent a few minutes talking about the baseball stadium and how it is important to the entire project since it makes the area a year-long destination. He also talked about his relationship with Bolton and the excitement of a Long Island baseball rivalry. Francesca was less than enthusiastic about the ballpark.

Both sides are media-blitzing ahead of Monday's vote. There even is a rally at the Coliseum tomorrow afternoon.

Dave

dmbishop
08-01-2011, 09:54 PM
At 10:50 pm, with 20% of the votes counted, the Nassau Coliseum / Atlantic League Ballpark referendum stands at 40% yes, 59% no (with 1% apparently too stupid to correctly fill in one of the two circles).

I'll update this post if I'm awake or the returns change, otherwise I'll post the final results in the morning. Right now, it's not looking very good (understatement).

Believe it or not, voter turnout was only 5% of the 900,000 registered voters in Nassau County (or about 45,000). I can't believe that the rain and hail we had from about 4pm to 6pm kept the other 95% at home, especially since the polls were open from 6am to 9pm.

Dave


At 11:01 pm, with 35% of the votes counted, the Nassau Coliseum / Atlantic League Ballpark referendum stands at 42% yes, 57% no (with 1% apparently too stupid to correctly fill in one of the two circles).

At 11:30 pm, with 54% of the votes counted, the Nassau Coliseum / Atlantic League Ballpark referendum stands at 42% yes, 57% no (with 1% apparently too stupid to correctly fill in one of the two circles).

At 11:50 pm, with 65% of the votes counted, the Nassau Coliseum / Atlantic League Ballpark referendum stands at 42% yes, 57% no (with 1% apparently too stupid to correctly fill in one of the two circles).
The Associated Press has officially called it a failure and the County Exec and Charles Wang have given their concession speeches.
I'm going to bed. I'll post the final tally in the morning if anyone cares.

No Atlantic League baseball for Nassau County. With this kind of a result, no politician will stick his neck out to try again and I don't believe in privately-funded White Knights.

Damn short-sighted people. The taxes for this project would have amounted to between $13 to $50 a year per household (depending on which side you listened to). If the Coliseum closes in 2015, which is a definite possibility, taxes will have to go up a minimum of $15 to $30 a household to recover the lost tax revenue that the Coliseum generates. So, we get the added tax burden anyway and we lose the only pro team on the Island and we don't get any baseball.

Final total: YES 43% - NO 57%

Dave

dmbishop
08-03-2011, 10:14 PM
Now that the dust has settled down a bit from Monday's vote, the private developers have come out of the woodwork with their plans. Personally, I give private development about a 20% chance of happening, but for the moment let's play as if it is a given.

Unfortunately for the Atlantic League, the area zoning now reverts back to the Town of Hempstead, which has already zoned it as light to moderate mixed-use. What this means is that there can be commercial and residential development on the 77 acres of the coliseum site. Most of the plans will end up being for a new Coliseum with shops around it and some condos. There simply won't be room or the will to put in a ballpark.

Remember, the key to the Lighthouse project was DENSE development with the ballpark as a close destination and attraction for the "locals". With only light to moderate development, the land will be much more valuable as commercial property.

Sorry, but I doubt that we will see an Atlantic League team in Nassau in the near future. Now, if everything falls through and 2015 comes and goes without a tenant for the Coliseum, who knows?

Dave

GoCyclones!
08-03-2011, 11:26 PM
Thanks for the update, Dave. I read some similar comments from Long Islanders that said something to the effect of people were complaining about the tax hike, but if the Islanders leave the taxes will go up anyway. Here's a comment of an opposition voice I read from the New York Times:

“He said he was paying for everything on his own,” Mr. Melendez said. “Why make the taxpayer shell it out, when two years prior to this, he was paying for everything?”

Didn't the original plan call for private funds? Also, I'm not from there but if Nassau County has some of the highest taxes in the country, how is it they're crying poverty as this article suggests?

GoCyclones!
08-03-2011, 11:56 PM
There was also this:

In Montgomery County, officials from The Woodlands have invited Atlantic League President Frank Boulton to pitch them on a new ballpark there. As you'll recall, Montgomery County officials signed an MOU with Ventura Sports Group, but the development of the ballpark and a retail complex has not occured. Officials with The Woodlands are taking matters into their own hands and initiating talks with the Atlantic League. There's incentive on both sides to make a deal: The Woodlands has been hot for baseball for years, and the Atlantic League would love to have at least one more Texas team to pair up with the Sugar Land Skeeters, who will begin play in 2012.

dmbishop
08-04-2011, 10:36 AM
Didn't the original plan call for private funds? Also, I'm not from there but if Nassau County has some of the highest taxes in the country, how is it they're crying poverty as this article suggests?

I could write a book on the politics of Nassau County. I have been involved in it (non-elected) all my life. Basically, no matter which party has been in power, cronyism and waste has been rampant. Not that it didn't benefit me; when my Mother was President of the local *party-deleted* Club, I had a number of very easy, well paying summer jobs back in high-school and college. The downside to all of this waste is that the Republicans put the County into bankruptcy a couple of decades ago, the Democrats spent so much in the past 5 years that we almost went into bankruptcy again, and the current Republican leaders have mismanaged the tax funds so much that New York State had to send in an oversight group (NIFA) to try to get the finances back into shape.

So we have among the highest taxes in the USA, but no surplus for emergencies or for spending on projects such as the Coliseum property.

http://mobile.newsday.com/inf/infomo;JSESSIONID=3CFCAB42D158812017B6.3133?site=n ewsday&view=top_stories_item&feed:a=newsday_1min&feed:c=topstories&feed:i=1.3073326

This article explains how the "Flexible" zoning will make it "easier" to develop the land, but, these highlights are interesting...

Hempstead's new zone allows for 5.4 million square feet of construction, compared with 8.8 million square feet in the $3.8 billion Lighthouse Project, which Islanders owner Charles Wang had proposed for the site six years ago. Hempstead also proposed a maximum of 500 housing units, compared with more than 2,300 units in the Lighthouse plan. Murray and the Hempstead town board had put the brakes on the Lighthouse project, saying it was too dense and didn't fit with the area's "suburban character."But while some local developers said they had ideas for the 77 acres of land, they also noted the town's limit on total density might make any plan with an arena less feasible.Some proposals might not include an arena, builders said. Construction could begin after the New York Islanders' lease expires in 2015 and the arena could be demolished.County Executive Edward Mangano's new proposal allows the land to be sold or leased, and opens the door for plans with and without a sports arena.Wang has said it is "economically unviable" to pay for an arena privately and build in the town's new zone.Advocates said they would like to see office and retail space and housing there. But some said the market isn't there for that now or in the immediate future. "If I'm a betting man, you're looking at asphalt five years from now, and probably 10 years from now," Dubb said. "I just feel it's many, many years away."Dave

GoCyclones!
09-09-2011, 09:03 AM
Now that there has been time to thoroughly digest this info on this failed bid in Nassau, could the opposition be due to overdevelopment? I'm from Brooklyn and loved the idea of the Nets moving there but HATED the idea of Manhattanizing Brooklyn, so I was part of the opposition. I love the arena but dislike the accompanying towers that will go along with it.

The Rockland Boulders have a beautiful new ballpark (and former Met HoJo was playing there this weekend). Rumors are always fun and I heard a few rumors about that place including one that might have an Atlantic League team there in a few years.

Regarding the new ballpark in Yonkers, it's my understanding everything is approved but there's no money for it now. I spoke with a resident there who said it's dead but also spoke with a real estate agent in the area who said it will happen. Time will tell.

That group that's looking to bring baseball back to Atlantic City (Silk City Ventures) revealed that they are looking to play in the Can-Am League but hope to eventually return to the Atlantic League. I'll admit, I'm very skeptical. Two previous independent incarnations of the Surf failed. I think you just gotta say, like Newark, it's just not happening there! But good luck!

Lastly, there was this article from the CT Post, talking about the western expansion and even the possibility of 16 teams. It's full steam ahead now in Sugar Land! Any news at all from Loudoun, VA???? A 2012 start now seems unlikely.

http://www.ctpost.com/default/article/Atlantic-League-taking-on-western-expansion-2154717.php#page-1

dmbishop
09-09-2011, 10:06 PM
Now that there has been time to thoroughly digest this info on this failed bid in Nassau, could the opposition be due to overdevelopment? I'm from Brooklyn and loved the idea of the Nets moving there but HATED the idea of Manhattanizing Brooklyn, so I was part of the opposition. I love the arena but dislike the accompanying towers that will go along with it.

Personally, I don't think it was an overdevelopment issue. There is a new mall going up literally right between Roosevelt Field (one of the 10 largest malls in the US) and another mall that is failing. All within 2-3 miles of the Coliseum site and the three malls are about 2 miles apart.

It's too complex (and political) to bother going into here, but the Lighthouse was proposed by Dems and killed by Reps who didn't allow the zoning. The latest proposal was put up by Reps and killed by Dems and an economy that didn't want a new tax right now (no matter how small it would have been and ignoring the future tax consequences of leaving the area dead).

Also, sad as it is for me to say it, but this area (Nassau in particular, but Suffolk too) is just not a good sports area. Nobody cares about the Islanders when they are bad, the Nets moved to NJ partly because of attendance, the Saints (indoor lacrosse) couldn't draw after the initial newness went away and the Dragons (AFL) and a roller hockey team whose name escapes me right now couldn't draw flies. All at the Coliseum. Also, Hofstra University (across the street from the Coliseum) dropped Football entirely 2 years ago after only drawing a couple thousand a game despite having a pretty good 1-AA program. Almost forgot about the Lizards (outdoor lacrosse) who moved to central Suffolk County, a Pro Softball team, a short-season baseball team, and the RoughRiders (outdoor soccer) who couldn't draw at the stadiums (such as they are) that are already on the same site as the proposed baseball stadium.

And, how could I forget the Strong Island Sound (ABA). Not Nassau, but I try to never miss an opportunity to give them a shot. ;)

The Ducks seem to be the exception to the rule and their attendance has been falling the last couple of years.

Dave

DCAbloob
09-16-2011, 09:14 AM
Lastly, there was this article from the CT Post, talking about the western expansion and even the possibility of 16 teams. It's full steam ahead now in Sugar Land! Any news at all from Loudoun, VA???? A 2012 start now seems unlikely.

http://www.ctpost.com/default/article/Atlantic-League-taking-on-western-expansion-2154717.php#page-1

Quite unlikely. There's still not been a ground breaking for a new stadium for the Loudoun team. The Hounds have promised an announcement soon regarding their status and plans for 2012.

dmbishop
09-22-2011, 09:27 AM
From Newsday:
http://mobile.newsday.com/inf/infomo;JSESSIONID=557E75139E309AD2C015.3124?site=n ewsday&view=top_stories_item&feed:a=newsday_1min&feed:c=topstories&feed:i=1.3189037&nopaging=1

Architects, engineers, government officials and labor leaders Wednesday unveiled a $346.5 million proposal to renovate the Nassau Coliseum and turn the surrounding 77 acres into a sports-entertainment complex.

But the development, for which the builder would have to secure financing, drew noncommittal responses from key players,

...

The site would include a minor league ballpark, a parking garage with room for 6,800 cars that would join the Coliseum and the Long Island Marriott, a new indoor ice rink for practice and public use, and 70,000 square feet of retail and restaurant space. West Hempstead architect Angelo Francis Corva, who designed the plan, left about 25 acres on two parcels undeveloped for a future phase.

...

"The goal is to keep the Islanders " in Nassau , said North Hempstead Supervisor Jon Kaiman , a Democrat and a task force member.

The proposal, which did not mention any specific developers, follows the rejection by Nassau voters on Aug. 1 of a referendum to spend $400 million of taxpayer funds on a new arena and ballpark.

The ABLI, a real estate group, campaigned against the referendum.

...

Wang, who has said the Islanders will not play in the current arena after the team's lease expires in 2015, said, "If somebody comes up with anything definitive, we will obviously look at it."

GoCyclones!
07-28-2012, 02:38 PM
Haven't been on this forum in a while. Felt the urge to check in.

This is purely speculation on my part, but the Rockland Boulders (Can-Am) are in the second year of a two-year commitment with the Can-Am League, and are playing to half capacity crowds in an absolutely beautiful new ballpark, in a market that could potentially be a goldmine (Rockland/Bergen/Westchester counties). There are multiple hurdles to jump over in trying to get an affiliated team due to territorial rights of the Yankees, Mets and HV Renegades, (although there was a report they were close to bringing a SAL team there), and with the Can-Am League appearing to be struggling, could they make the jump to the Atlantic League after this season? I would definitely be more likely to support the team if they did.

They're still trying to make things work in Yonkers. Hopefully it can happen one day. I love the idea and check out the picture with a rooftop ballpark!

http://www.lohud.com/article/20120613/NEWS02/306130047/Yonkers-developer-seeks-3-year-extension-River-Park-Center-complex-Cacace-Justice-Center-expansion

toad455
08-01-2012, 06:31 PM
Giving how well Sugar Land is doing, I would tend to think the ATL wants to expand into the Texas/Gulf Coast area ASAP. If they can possibly find two teams to join Sugar Land, they can add the Road Warriors back to even out the league with 3 divisions of 4 teams each. Laredo was rumored before, any other suggestions??

FREEDOM DIVISION
York
Lancaster
Somerset
Rockland

LIBERTY DIVISION
Bridgeport
Camden
So. Maryland
Long island

INDEPENDENCE DIVISION
Sugar Land
Laredo
Gulf Coast team
Road Warriors

pilots13
08-01-2012, 09:14 PM
Laredo joined the AA this season and I don't see them leaving. There was talk about Montgomery County getting a team in the AtlL, but not sure where that is at. And they won't go with a road team unless they absolutely have to. They would do 2-5 team divisions and then add 2 more TX teams and go 3-4 team divisions before the divisions suggested.

BlastFan
08-02-2012, 09:21 AM
Laredo joined the AA this season and I don't see them leaving. There was talk about Montgomery County getting a team in the AtlL, but not sure where that is at. And they won't go with a road team unless they absolutely have to. They would do 2-5 team divisions and then add 2 more TX teams and go 3-4 team divisions before the divisions suggested.

Montgomery County would mean another team in MD. It's north of the Blue Crabs and the District. I think after a few years they ditched the plan tho. They were supposedly going to get that affiliated team in Frederick County, MD to go independent but I don't think that's happening either...

DCAbloob
08-02-2012, 10:02 AM
Montgomery County would mean another team in MD. It's north of the Blue Crabs and the District. I think after a few years they ditched the plan tho.

Montgomery County, Texas may be a more viable possibility than Montgomery County, Maryland at this point. I assume that was the reference in question.

Sharks52
08-03-2012, 11:45 AM
Whatever happened to the new team in Virginia? Aren't they supposed to start in 2013? That would make nine teams unless they would drop the Bridgeport Bluefish next year.

DCAbloob
08-03-2012, 06:07 PM
Whatever happened to the new team in Virginia? Aren't they supposed to start in 2013? That would make nine teams unless they would drop the Bridgeport Bluefish next year.

The Loudoun Hounds were delayed again until at least 2014.

Eddie
08-04-2012, 07:46 PM
Montgomery County would mean another team in MD. It's north of the Blue Crabs and the District. I think after a few years they ditched the plan tho. They were supposedly going to get that affiliated team in Frederick County, MD to go independent but I don't think that's happening either...
Were supposed to get that affiliated team to go independent? That's not exactly how it works...

Kirk and crew wanted to get the lease for the ballpark when it was time to re-up with the team. The team won out though the bid from Kirk and crew was better it seemed. Indies get no respect.

Laredo joined the AA this season and I don't see them leaving. There was talk about Montgomery County getting a team in the AtlL, but not sure where that is at. And they won't go with a road team unless they absolutely have to. They would do 2-5 team divisions and then add 2 more TX teams and go 3-4 team divisions before the divisions suggested.
No one seems to know what's going on with Montgomery County. Might end up being another Yonkers situation.

I never knew about the commitment Rockland had with the Can-Am League, but I think there is a chance Rockland could join the Atlantic League for the 2013 season. Geographically it makes sense, the ballpark is beautiful, and the ownership seems committed to baseball. If Rockland does decide to move to the Atl, I think the Can-Am League is all but finished. The Can-Am League has two viable teams in Quebec, and Rockland... Newark, Worcester seem to be two teams that could fold or head to collegiate baseball, and New Jersey is just caught in the middle, good organization but I dont think the ballpark in New Jersey is suitable for the Atl. The redflag was raised for myself that the Can-Am League could be in trouble when Brockton, Sussex, and Pittsfield all left the Can-Am League the last two years. The fans in Rockland deserve the Atl and so to does that ballpark. I don't think the Atl would be apposed to adding Rockland but I think they are looking to add another team in Texas. If Rockland was added and no team was dropped bring back the Road Warriors.
Geographically it makes sense? Makes it sound like it doesn't make sense for the Can Am who has the same footprint. Can AM is hurting though...

Giving how well Sugar Land is doing, I would tend to think the ATL wants to expand into the Texas/Gulf Coast area ASAP. If they can possibly find two teams to join Sugar Land, they can add the Road Warriors back to even out the league with 3 divisions of 4 teams each. Laredo was rumored before, any other suggestions??

FREEDOM DIVISION
York
Lancaster
Somerset
Rockland

LIBERTY DIVISION
Bridgeport
Camden
So. Maryland
Long island

INDEPENDENCE DIVISION
Sugar Land
Laredo
Gulf Coast team
Road Warriors

Well the plan was always to expand ASAP. They weren't planning on Sugar Land being the lone outpost for long. Not even sure they expected to win the bidding either. But Laredo is AA. Shreveport, Birmingham have ballparks. Biloxi and Baton Rogue are always trying to get something going....

Road team is not likely at all.

Eddie
08-05-2012, 09:23 PM
If the Atl is looking for a travel partner to help out Sugar Land the ideal place would be Fort Worth. It's the perfect spot teams could fly in and out of Dallas, it's just over four hours from Sugar Land and the ballpark in Fort Worth right would meet the Atl standards. Only problem is how can they acquire the franchise from the NAL or United League. If the league wants a quick fix to the solution Fort Worth is it.

When the season ends they'll be out of business anyway :D

Yeah I know, bad joke. But look at their track record.

Fort Worth is NOT AtL standards...from what I remember anyway, been a few years. It's usable but AtL ballparks have this feel to them. You know it's the AtL when you're there. Or maybe it's just me.

Fort Worth if I remember correctly is barebones and more like an old school park. Don't even think they have the number of seats though AtL has been lenient on that lately...

The location is great though

Eddie
08-06-2012, 08:45 PM
I wouldn't say that LaGrave Field in Fort Worth isn't Atl standards. It has a listed seating capacity of 5,100 which would make it the smallest in the Atl but not by much. Harbor Yard in Bridgeport has a capacity of 5,300 & Sovereign Bank Stadium in York has a capacity of 5,200. The largest crowd LaGrave has ever seen was in 2003 when 9,216 attended a game on 4th of July. It is a old school ballpark but it's just 10 years old. I just think if Fort Worth was available the Atl would be all over it. Fort Worth is a great city and definetley deserves the Atl and it's product it puts on and off the field. Makes me wonder what would happen if the front office staff from Sugar Land ever got ahold of Fort Worth and LaGrave Field... big things could happen.

The ballpark itself. Have you been there? It's not an AtL ballpark.
It could work but it's not an AtL park.

Don't know how to read that market after everything they've been through though.

GoCyclones!
08-24-2012, 09:17 AM
Good questions. Fort Worth was on my mind as well as a possible candidate. Maybe the venue isn't great but DFW is a great market to be in. Shreveport is a ready-to-go venue, as well as the new LSU park in Baton Rouge.

What IS happening in Loudoun? A team name, merchandise, website, but no team.

Reports of ODP talking with Fredericksburg, VA is interesting.

On another topic, forgive me, I know this is an Atlantic League forum, but the question was brought up before about the Can-Am. Rockland has got to jump ship. That league can't be doing well. If the season ended today, Newark would make the playoffs...30 games under .500. So Worcester is fighting off the repo man, Newark is always struggling. I thought they could do what the Atlantic League is doing and merge with the AA and become its eastern division. But is it worth it with only two remaining teams? I attended a game recently in Quebec City, which was great. A Tuesday night game, the place was near capacity, with a passionate crowd. Old stadium, but definitely a viable market. I'd love to see a NYPL team there.

Eddie
08-24-2012, 04:45 PM
I think if Worcester packs it in after this season Rockland has a shot at getting into the Atlantic League.

Quebec is more likely to join the American Association, especially if Trois Rivieres is granted and indy team for next season.

One would think if the Atlantic League is looking to expand, Texas is the destination. Fort Worth could be had after this season, as things in the NAL South division don't look good.

Independent Baseball:confused:

Quebec is not too close to the AA. May be more Atlantic League friendly. But that leaves others in the cold.

And I think it's Worcester AND Newark that will be dark. Would like to be wrong but it's dismal there.

DJ Omnimaga
08-29-2012, 02:21 AM
A few years ago, I remember talks about the possibilities that Quebec joins the Atlantic League in the future, but there were some concerns:

1) Weather: Because the AL season starts in Late April instead of Late May, I don't think many fans will want to come watch baseball at 35°F at night at the very start of the season. Attendance at late May/early June games is already horrible as it is (sometimes under 1000). On the other hand, I personally think that light snow at some games might actually give games some sort of unique touch. :P

2) Travel costs: If every Can-Am team folded, that would have made Quebec's travel costs absolutely horrible if they joined the Atlantic League. Now that wouldn't be as much of a problem with Rockland around, but costs would still be onerous. Even though they have the second best attendance in the Can-Am with 3000 fans a game, would that be enough to sustain extra costs? A few years ago, before Miles Wolff sold the team, news reports said that from 1999 to 2008, the team either lost money or broke even every year, and 2009 profits were only because of Eric Gagné's star signing attendance boost. I'm not sure how well the team is doing under the new ownership now, although I heard they had better corporate support. Still, would it be enough?

And there are concerns I personally had:

3) Due to the longer schedule, Capitales would be in direct competition with junior hockey during the final month of the season/playoffs. (and possibly at the start of the season if they get a new NHL team). While the Caps have a loyal fanbase, Quebec is primarily an hockey market. When the caps are in the playoffs and the Remparts are playing the same night, the stadium doesn't sell out until the 9th inning, where fans suddenly arrive in droves from the hockey game to see their baseball team win the trophy. Also would the return of the Nordiques in the NHL hurt the Capitales?

4) Would their 4,800 seats stadium (which can fit about 5100 people) be considered too small for the Atlantic League?

If the Capitales ever makes it to the Atlantic League, in order to survive, I think they'll have to play the 6 first weeks of the season on the road.

On the other hand, being in a stable league might actually draw extra fans to Capitales games. In the past 4 years or so, we never know if it will be the final Capitales season ever or not.

DCAbloob
08-29-2012, 01:12 PM
What IS happening in Loudoun? A team name, merchandise, website, but no team.


They're waiting on an additional renter. A minor league NASL soccer team will soon be announced for the northern Virginia region, with the planned Loudoun baseball stadium as its host facility.

Eddie
08-29-2012, 07:40 PM
4) Would their 4,800 seats stadium (which can fit about 5100 people) be considered too small for the Atlantic League?

If the Capitales ever makes it to the Atlantic League, in order to survive, I think they'll have to play the 6 first weeks of the season on the road.

On the other hand, being in a stable league might actually draw extra fans to Capitales games. In the past 4 years or so, we never know if it will be the final Capitales season ever or not.

Since they are already an established team and all that, I don't think the AtL would say no because less seats. One of the new ballparks actually has less seats than that doesn't it? I think it's Waldorf, would have to check.

Stable league helps but also the AtL brings higher caliber of play.

Guess we'll know soo enough if the Can Am will survive. Believe October should be the date.

GoCyclones!
08-29-2012, 11:29 PM
It would actually be the smallest ballpark in the league...and the oldest. It's one of those old ones for sure, and the Atlantic League seems almost snobbish as far the venues in the league. A good point is brought up about the weather and early season games.

It's a great market though in a fledgling league. I was thoroughly impressed by the passionate crowd. I'm no architect, but I noticed quite a bit of empty space down the right field lane that could potentially be an area for more seats, a picnic or barbecue area of some sort. Would the travel be that much more? They're already going to Montclair, NJ and Newark; now, they'd have to go a little further south to Camden, NJ and Bridgewater. And they did bus it to St. Paul and Winnipeg this year.

Speculating sure is fun! But there should be some interesting developments come October... or nothing could happen at all.

jidyfan
08-30-2012, 12:43 PM
The Atlantic League rules states that all new parks must meet or exceed AAA ballpark standards. I believe the minimum attendance between seats and picnic areas or grassy general admission areas must be at least 6000.

DJ Omnimaga
08-30-2012, 11:14 PM
It would actually be the smallest ballpark in the league...and the oldest. It's one of those old ones for sure, and the Atlantic League seems almost snobbish as far the venues in the league. A good point is brought up about the weather and early season games.

It's a great market though in a fledgling league. I was thoroughly impressed by the passionate crowd. I'm no architect, but I noticed quite a bit of empty space down the right field lane that could potentially be an area for more seats, a picnic or barbecue area of some sort. Would the travel be that much more? They're already going to Montclair, NJ and Newark; now, they'd have to go a little further south to Camden, NJ and Bridgewater. And they did bus it to St. Paul and Winnipeg this year.

Speculating sure is fun! But there should be some interesting developments come October... or nothing could happen at all.

When Éric Gagné played his first game for the Caps, the owners added temporary standing rooms outside the stands close to base 1 and more where the terrace is, to accomodate up to 5600 people. Decades ago, an exhibition game between the Milwaukee Braves and their Quebec affiliate drew close to 8000 fans, but now with fire regulations that wouldn't be possible anymore.

However, I went to one of the game that drew more than the so-called 4800 seating capacity (5200, if I recall correctly) and there were still plenty of empty spots in the yellow seating area. Those seats are not numbered and they're like at church, so you can pretty much sit anywhere, not centered with the individual seats below. You can see the stadium seating below:

http://www.digitalballparks.com/Eastern/Quebec6.html

Aerial view
http://francisvachon.photoshelter.com/image/I0000N80o3.gXTd4

However, it could also be that some people who had tickets didn't make it to the game. There were also only about 6 or 7 people standing. I'm pretty sure the seats with those benches can hold more than 5000, so if the league approved the permanent addition of standing rooms outside the stadium, along with some inside, maybe they could get pretty close to 6000 total capacity?

In any case, it would be nice if the league gave a pass to Quebec and other teams like Rockland. After all, it's not like most AL teams even fill their stadiums on a regular basis.

Trois-Rivieres also have a stadium that used to be exactly the same as Quebec's, but it has since been renovated and now seats under 4000.

Eddie
09-01-2012, 08:08 PM
The Atlantic League rules states that all new parks must meet or exceed AAA ballpark standards. I believe the minimum attendance between seats and picnic areas or grassy general admission areas must be at least 6000.

Rules smules.
There are always exceptions.

Money these days for ballparks is hard to come by. If Quebec or another ballpark was out there and there was a fit. They're not going to say no just because of seats unless it's some outrageous number compared to the others in the league like 2000 or something.

That ballpark in particular has space to expand seating.

Delano Hitch was used as a ballpark in the league. Capacity 3100.

The ballpark in Sussex was being used for a while. Capacity 4200.

There are exceptions to every rule.

dmbishop
09-17-2012, 02:40 PM
According to today's Newsday, one of the 3 developers trying to get the contract to develop the Nassau Hub area (Nassau Coliseum and surrounding area for those of you not from here) has expressed a desire to put a minor league team on part of the site. He says that he already has the ability to bring the NY Mets on board.

Couple of things though... (1) No mention of the Atlantic League. He specifically talked about an existing, undetermined Mets minor league team. (2) He is the only developer of the three without an actual concrete plan, so he could just be blowing smoke so he can get the contract without anything in writing.

The other 2 developers have no plan for a ballpark, so it looks like you can now scratch Nassau County off the Atlantic League list.

Dave

GoCyclones!
09-18-2012, 09:00 PM
Thanks, Dave. Pardon my cynicism but I think you could scratch Nassau County off the Islanders' list as well, from the looks of things. That's if there's ever hockey again.

The group in Malden, MA has a pretty cool website up (greaterbostonballpark.com) that even includes a countdown to Opening Day 2014, their expected start date. I don't know how far along they are, I'm guessing still the proposal stage, and after seeing how tenuous the situations are in Yonkers and Loudoun, I think it's safe to assume that start date can be pushed back a few years, if not totally replaced by question marks.

Looks like the Can-Am will survive to see another season, but I'm still holding hope that Rockland will jump ship. With all due respect, that park is too nice in a league of glorified college ballparks.

dmbishop
09-19-2012, 06:17 AM
Thanks, Dave. Pardon my cynicism but I think you could scratch Nassau County off the Islanders' list as well, from the looks of things. That's if there's ever hockey again.

I know this is off topic, but... :(

I agree with you totally. The Coliseum after 2015 is dead. All they are doing to the building is patching things just enough so they are allowed to remain open.

I already bought my tickets to the pre-season game at the Barclays' Center in October. Not holding my breath that there will actually be a game though. Hoping that it can be renovated to hold enough for Hockey, because it is still close enough for me to remain a fan.

Dave

GoCyclones!
09-19-2012, 08:35 AM
New Atlantic League?

http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/sports/professional-baseball-team-could-return-to-atlantic-city/article_9753c059-6886-5444-a605-68b9673e2efe.html

Thoughts??

dmbishop
09-20-2012, 02:38 PM
New Atlantic League?

Let's see here...

The Can-Am is on life support, and most teams don't have the attendance or revenue (or facilities) to jump to the Atlantic League.

If they can't join the "big boys", why not bring them under the Atlantic League banner. Then if a team begins to draw better and can meet the requirements, move them up to the Atlantic League the next season.

Then, since they would be affiliated, you could also trade players among teams in both leagues.

I could see some Frontier League and North American League teams looking at that scenario and being very interested.

Dave

GoCyclones!
09-26-2012, 10:41 PM
It's definitely an interesting proposal. But I'm curious as to what markets would be available, as the Northeast seems heavily saturated, and any open markets in New England seem to go the collegiate league route.

Just off the cuff, four teams in NJ with Atlantic City, Newark, Augusta and Little Falls, but that would require two Can-Am teams to join, including prolonging Newark's slow but inevitable death. The Worcester market is available now. Maybe Worcester, AC, Augusta, Bridgeport. I can't even think of any other markets. Maybe one of the decaying cities of upstate, NY like Elmira or Oneonta. Brockton? Nashua? They're profitable now in their collegiate league.

In the end, the four NJ teams I mentioned, plus Bridgeport and Worcester could make a nice little tight-knit, low-cost circuit. Of course there would be various hurdles to jump for 2013, and that assumes that Quebec and TR join the AA, and Rockland joins the AL. But Frank Boulton has a good track record, so can't bet against him!

DCAbloob
10-01-2012, 10:10 AM
The Loudoun Hounds are switching locations for their planned stadium to the One Loudoun development in Ashburn, Va. The Hounds are still set for a 2014 opening.
http://www.loudounhounds.com/insidepitchoct2012

Official press release: http://www.loudounhounds.com/newsreleaseoneloudoun

Moneyballer
10-11-2012, 08:27 AM
two things:

1) The orginal area for the minor league baseball team was in the porter area of montgomery county texas. This will not work as I have lived in montgomery county my whole life and can say with ease that most of the county does not provide a market that can sustain a successful minor league team. This is a football area and we could not even support the Conroe Storm football team for more than a few years. If montgomery county will have a baseball team it will be in The Woodlands, which to be honest is more like its own entity anyway. That area could easily upport a team, and rumor has it that Opening Day Partners are looking in the area. Other Areas of interest are the jersey village area around the beltway and the Katy area. In otherwords Atlantic League Expansion west is going to be built around the Houston Area.

2) Fort Worth will not play in the Atlantic League anytime soon. As a recent Intern with the baseball operations department in Fort Worth I can guarentee that they are nowhere close to being an American Association league team once again. The ownership group that owns the Cats owns the entire United league (former south division of North American League) and is very found of the idea of growing this league into the next big thing. Fort Worth is an outstanding market, but for it to ever move into the realm of the atlantic league it must become a solid AA team again, bolester its revenue and progress from there.

GoCyclones!
10-15-2012, 09:18 PM
Thanks for the insight, Moneyballer. Please continue to update us with any local news from that area.

The news posted on this site's weekly franchise report is interesting. "Plans to move forward with a feeder league called the ALPB2 that is targeting 2014 for its start with teams based in the Northeast. The ABL itself wants to expand and add more teams in Texas and possibly include games in the Caribbean against teams in Puerto Rico, Cuba and the Dominican Republic. Plans by a developer to place an ABL team in the Malden (MA) area of Boston have been pushed back until 2015, as lease negotiations for the ballpark site have taken longer than expected."

Wow, sounds almost like overly ambitious NAL-esque plans, but the AtL has a good track record of late of smart expansion, although I'd love to see them focus on the Texas teams. The Caribbean is certainly an interesting proposal. Plenty of quality facilities in Puerto Rico, but baseball itself is in living a slow death there, probably the third most popular sport now after basketball and even volleyball. There's talk of converting its largest stadium, Hiram Bithorn, into a soccer-only facility.

ALPB2 I think is a wonderful idea, although again I'm having a hard time envisioning available locations without a takeover of the Can-Am. Atlantic City, Sussex, I guess Worcester is available, but there was a recent article that they may go dark for a year. Futures League may make more sense for them. Kinston, NC? If I had the money I'd invest in an Atlantic League Florida winter version, that could possibly play in the Caribbean Series. Plenty of quality non-MiLB facilities available. There was the George Foster/Ken Griffey, Sr.-led, very short-lived FWBL. I actually attended a few of those games, and one in Lake County had a near sellout crowd. I'm rambling now. Peace, all!

BerkshireFan
10-17-2012, 10:03 PM
The Atlantic League has floated the idea of a feeder league off and on for ten years now. An independent feeder league is a contradiction in terms. Selling casual fans on indy ball is hard enough, nevermind the local sports writers. Imagine the editorials that would accompany the news of a group of "independent feeder league" investors approaching a municipal parks commision. The investors representing the summer collegiate leagues will win the keys to the ballpark everytime.

Just the idea of reading on the sports page about your team's hard throwing lefty closer getting called up to.....Camden?!!!! Yeah, wait 'til you tell the guys at work about how you saw him pitch before he went off to the Show in ......Camden. I will always prefer indy ball to affiliated baseball, but this is the worst of both worlds.

dmbishop
10-18-2012, 10:54 AM
I still approach the idea of a feeder league as being for TEAMS as opposed to PLAYERS.

You are right in that it doesn't make sense to have a good player being called up to Camden, Long Island, etc... but it does make sense to have a team in say Dover DE (random small market) doing things right and getting 4000+ a game and being moved up to the Atlantic League the next season. The opposite could also happen to a team such as Bridgeport where they could take their 1500 fans and play teams with similar attendance and lower costs with a hopefully better economic model.

Dave

nksports
10-18-2012, 04:14 PM
I still approach the idea of a feeder league as being for TEAMS as opposed to PLAYERS.

You are right in that it doesn't make sense to have a good player being called up to Camden, Long Island, etc... but it does make sense to have a team in say Dover DE (random small market) doing things right and getting 4000+ a game and being moved up to the Atlantic League the next season. The opposite could also happen to a team such as Bridgeport where they could take their 1500 fans and play teams with similar attendance and lower costs with a hopefully better economic model.

Dave

European style promotion and relegation based on attendance? Hmmm.

dmbishop
10-18-2012, 07:44 PM
European style promotion and relegation based on attendance? Hmmm.

Well, pretty close. :)

I was using attendance to show fiscal strength. Let's face it, you need a certain attendance level to be able to financially support the Atlantic League "lifestyle". I doubt that a team could reasonably do it without drawing 3000+ a game.

While I wouldn't call it Promotion and Relegation...

Totally making this up, but:
League 1 plays 140 games a year with a $500,000 payroll and AAA stadiums
League 2 plays 90 games a year with a $200,000 payroll and AA stadiums

So, a team in League 1 (Bridgeport) has demonstrated over the course of a number of years that they can't generate the revenue necessary to turn a profit in the league. They move to League 2 where the expenses are smaller and their lower attendance (revenue) can possibly be profitable.

On the other hand, a team in League 2 (fictional Dover, DE) draws 4000+ fans, is profitable, and either plays in a suitable AAA quality stadium or can upgrade the facilities. They have done this for a couple of years. They can move to League 1 where they can take advantage of the longer schedule and better quality of play to increase their fanbase and hopefully make more money.

I wouldn't do this every year like Promotion/Relegation, but it gives incentive to teams to improve and if a team can't hack it in the Atlantic League (Nashua, Newark, etc) they can be kept in the fold instead of being cast off.

Dave

GoCyclones!
10-18-2012, 10:49 PM
Some interesting comments here, and I hear ya, Berk, but I think this can put the Atlantic League at the forefront of independent player development. For example, the Ducks had undrafted Paul Karmas from St. John's, ( by the way nicknamed The Franchise. Nice!) A player of that caliber might be overmatched going against a guy with MLB experience in the Atl, so he can ride the pine or send him to the Can-Am, which they did. But if they sent him to Atlantic City and ensure he's getting tutelage under the umbrella of the best run independent league in the country, then perhaps he could move up midseason to tougher comp. I think this consolidation is good for the players, teams and fans, as this will bring stability and I doubt any of these teams will have uniforms repossessed ala Worcester or be locked out of their stadium.

And I agree about Bridgeport - a lower cost circuit might be behoove them.

Moneyballer
10-23-2012, 09:34 AM
two more things:

1) this forum is awesome. Great insight and good knowledge of independent baseball in this forum. just what I was looking for.

2) The feeder league idea interests me but I think the money is still in western expansion...at least for now. I would like to see the atlantic league become a 12 team league with three divsisons (similar to the AA i know). I like this model becuase it usually allows for lower travel costs (especially if teams play divisinaly foes more often and the divisions are at least somewhat geographical). Also, it does away with the horrible first half/second half championship system (this is another discussion entirely). A well established 12 team league could allow for more competiton amongst start up teams or leagues to bolester their revenue and show that they belong in the league over say bridgeport since that example was used earlier. The caribbean aspect would be something to consider for all-star games I think but im not sold on the validity of teams being able to fit the mold of atlantic league baseball and increase the brand image of the league.

nksports
10-23-2012, 03:15 PM
Also, it does away with the horrible first half/second half championship system (this is another discussion entirely).

The leagues that use it do it because so many teams go through so many players. It started in affiliated ball because teams would be so decimated with mid-season call-ups, a good team in the first half may not be in the second half and visa-versa.

The AA did away with it this season (I think because of the three-division thing) and our local team really struggled with it. About a third of the team's contracts were sold to affiliated teams by mid-season and the team saw about a 15-game lead at mid-season go to about two or three before they finally rebounded (by buying new players from other leagues).

Moneyballer
10-24-2012, 12:07 PM
The leagues that use it do it because so many teams go through so many players. It started in affiliated ball because teams would be so decimated with mid-season call-ups, a good team in the first half may not be in the second half and visa-versa.

The AA did away with it this season (I think because of the three-division thing) and our local team really struggled with it. About a third of the team's contracts were sold to affiliated teams by mid-season and the team saw about a 15-game lead at mid-season go to about two or three before they finally rebounded (by buying new players from other leagues).

I understand why its done and where you are coming from with it but it causes just as many problems as it solves and probably more. I will use the xample of the Atlantic League this year. The ducks won the first round championship and went on to have the second worst overall record in the atlantic league. The second half of the season they were horrible. They did not deserve to be playing in the playoffs (but to your point neither did any of the bottom three teams in their division). The ducks got hot in the postseason which can def happen in a small sample size (max 10 games). This format means a lot of players get opportunities at championships who frankly have no business being in the playoffs. I understand though that moving to a three division format can hurt teams who lose players midseason so thats a very good point. However, I think for the long term health of the league and the expansion that is coming it is a must move.

DCAbloob
04-03-2013, 07:19 PM
Loudoun County, VA's county board has granted final rezoning approval for the relocated Loudoun Hounds stadium site. The new venue will also host an NASL soccer team with planned launches for both teams in 2014.

HeadFirst
04-03-2013, 09:54 PM
On track for 2014 openings for both Loudoun Hounds (Atlantic League) and Virginia Cavalry FC (North American Soccer League):

www.loudounhounds.com/newswegotthevote

LOUDOUN COUNTY UNANIMOUSLY SAYS ‘YES’ TO THE HOUNDS & CAVALRY FC

Ashburn-based facility on track for a 2014 opening for baseball and soccer

Ashburn, VA – April 3, 2013 - Following this evening’s vote by the Loudoun County Board of Supervisors, professional baseball and soccer will come to Loudoun County, Virginia, in 2014. The Board voted unanimously to approve the request to build the privately financed facility in Ashburn within the One Loudoun development at the interchange of Route 7 and Loudoun County Parkway.

“Tonight’s strong vote of support is a testament to the level of support and desire to have professional sports to call our own in Northern Virginia and Loudoun County,” said Bob Farren, President and CEO of VIP Sports & Entertainment. “I want to profusely thank our fans who have supported us over these many years and I can’t wait to put a shovel in the ground and create a facility that will be a source of affordable, family fun for generations to come.”

In the coming weeks, VIP Sports & Entertainment will be announcing a number of additional events, ranging from Ballpark Groundbreaking to Hounds FanFest and Cavalry FC SoccerFests, in addition to other important announcements.

Farren concluded, “We are excited about our sports future with the Hounds and Cavalry FC. The ballpark will serve as a community gathering point and is another example of why Loudoun County is a great place for families and businesses alike.”

The Hounds’ website is http://www.LoudounHounds.com and they can be found on social media at Facebook.com/HoundsBaseball and Twitter.com/LoudounHounds. Cavalry FC’s website is http://www.VirginiaCavalry.com, and they can be found on social media at Facebook.com/VirginiaCavalry and Twitter.com/CavalryFC.

# # #

About VIP Sports & Entertainment/Loudoun Hounds/Virginia Cavalry FC

The mission of VIP Sports &Entertainment is to provide the families of Loudoun County and Northern Virginia with a spectacular, state-of-the-art entertainment venue for hosting a wide variety of fun, affordable attractions year-round -- from Loudoun Hounds professional baseball, Virginia Cavalry FC professional soccer and other sports, to concerts, festivals, shows, fairs, community and charity events.

DCAbloob
04-08-2013, 05:58 PM
The Atlantic League has granted conditional approval to a franchise in Virginia Beach, Va.

http://hamptonroads.com/2013/04/minor-league-baseball-va-beach-takes-step-forward

pilots13
04-08-2013, 09:20 PM
After all these years they are finally getting their team. Amazing they stuck with making this team a reality for so long. Now the question is who's the 8th team? I'm guessing they'd really like a second Texas team.

toad455
04-11-2013, 09:41 PM
After all these years they are finally getting their team. Amazing they stuck with making this team a reality for so long. Now the question is who's the 8th team? I'm guessing they'd really like a second Texas team.

The league has 8 teams, currently. Loudon makes it 9, Virginia Beach makes it 10, & Malden, Mass. makes it 11. The league desprately wants another Texas team to reduce travel $$$, but I'm sure they'd like at least 3 Texas teams in total. Add in Rockland & Quebec from the Can-Am league plus bring back the RoadWarriors to make it an even 16 and we're all set.

NORTH DIVISION
Quebec
Malden, Mass.
Bridgeport
Rockland

EAST DIVISION
Long Island
Somerset
Lancaster
York

CENTRAL DIVISION
Loudon
Virginia Beach
Southern Maryland
Camden

SOUTH DIVISION
Sugarland
Laredo, TX
Texas expansion #2
RoadWarriors

pilots13
04-12-2013, 01:21 PM
I don't see the Can-Am teams merging in with the AtlL. The Can-Am and AA have far too strong a connection for that to happen. There will be a fight for markets in TX for sure. There's a good chance the UBL falls apart this year, and there are some viable markets that both the AA or AtlL could move into.

nksports
04-12-2013, 02:22 PM
I don't see the Can-Am teams merging in with the AtlL. The Can-Am and AA have far too strong a connection for that to happen. There will be a fight for markets in TX for sure. There's a good chance the UBL falls apart this year, and there are some viable markets that both the AA or AtlL could move into.

The Can-Am and AA even share a commissioner.

wildthing2022000
06-03-2013, 07:23 AM
Worcester,MA might be throwing their hat into the ring.

http://www.telegram.com/article/20130602/NEWS/106029719/1009/sports

The team might either be in the AtlL, the Northern League (brought back in 2013), or some new league created by the founder and CEO of the AtlL and possible owned or at least managed by the San Jose Sharks owner of the local AHL team.

Atlantic League founder and CEO Frank Boulton is interested in bringing professional baseball back to Worcester next year and Worcester Sharks governor Michael Lehr is exploring the possibility of the Sharks running the franchise.

“All I can tell you at this point,” Boulton said via telephone, “is we have an exciting baseball project that will be announced in June, and certainly we've had conversations with the town fathers and many of the folks up in Worcester. We recognize that there's an opportunity in Worcester for professional baseball for next year. It's definitely a next-year project, 2014.”

Boulton said he plans to announce in mid-June the details of a new developmental league that he's creating and that he would like Worcester to be a part of that league. Boulton emphasized that the new league will not be associated with the Atlantic League.


Lehr said the Sharks would be interested in managing the franchise, but not owning it. Asked if he'd own the team in Worcester, Boulton replied, “That's a possibility.”

Lehr said the Sharks have talked with the Atlantic League and the Northern League, but not the Can-Am League. All three are professional leagues not affiliated with major league baseball.

BlastFan
06-03-2013, 11:55 AM
I'm curious as to why the proposed developmental league will not be affiliated with the Atlantic League. In the Atlantic League, you see former MLB players that are playing for fun, talented players that have made it to AA or AAA and are bouncing back, but you do not see many players fresh out of school. With a developmental league underneath the Atlantic League, these young players will start to filter through.

I remember seeing Ryan Zimmerman play for the Coastal Plains league in the summer (a collegiate league) and then getting picked up by the Nationals. With a developmental league affiliated with the Atlantic League, you just might see that sort of thing happen especially since the Atlantic League is one of the premier independent leagues and all the teams are looking at its players since they are after all independent.

toad455
06-04-2013, 10:28 PM
The Atlantic league should really wait until 10 years or so until forming a development league. They only have 8 teams, and might reach 12 teams in about 5 years. This development league seems a bit far-fetched.

Bonhomme2010
06-16-2013, 04:10 PM
The Can-Am and AA even share a commissioner.
And that commissioner will never get involved in a league that doesn't have a salary cap!

wildthing2022000
06-18-2013, 03:30 AM
Worcester is maybe in the new league, the Diamond League. No Atlantic League for us.

http://www.telegram.com/article/20130617/NEWS/130619724/1116

Atlantic League founder and CEO Frank Boulton today announced the formation of a new professional baseball league that will debut next year, and he said he expects Worcester to become a member.

The Diamond League, like the Atlantic League, will not be affiliated with Major League Baseball. The Diamond League is scheduled to field six teams that will play 60 games each in 2014, then field eight teams that will play 84 games each in 2015. Rosters will be composed of players aged 21-25 who have less than five years of professional experience. Boulton wants to visit all prospective league cities by Aug. 1 and select the cities later in the month to allow enough time to market them for next season.

BlastFan
06-18-2013, 10:44 PM
So... it seems like it's a level above summer collegiate ball (?)

toad455
10-09-2013, 10:46 AM
No Loudoun in 2014. I appears the league will wait until 2015 to add in Loudoun and likely 3 other expansion teams. Fort Worth appears to be the most likely addition for 2015 along with Loudoun. I have to wonder if the league has any other Texas expansion possibilities for 2015.

Sharks52
12-14-2013, 07:44 PM
Some bad news here. http://www.philly.com/philly/news/local/20131214_Riversharks_field_is_target_of_bank_s_sui t.html

toad455
02-10-2014, 08:41 PM
could we possibly see 12 teams in the Atlantic League for 2015? Loudoun should all be set, along with expansion teams likely in place for Fort Worth, TX & Virginia Beach. I'm sure the league would like to secure a third Texas team, if not, I could see the return of the Road Warriors to keep the league even at 12 teams.

toad455
06-16-2014, 10:17 PM
Loudoun still seems doubtful to ever get off the ground. But Virginia Beach seems all but set for 2015. Virginia Beach plus another Texas team would bring the league to 10 for 2015.

DCAbloob
08-28-2014, 03:51 PM
Loudoun still seems doubtful to ever get off the ground. But Virginia Beach seems all but set for 2015. Virginia Beach plus another Texas team would bring the league to 10 for 2015.

There aren't any signs of life from Loudoun.

http://ashburnrising.com/lost-dogs-hounds-baseball-dreams-sputter-at-one-loudoun/

toad455
08-30-2014, 09:49 PM
so it looks like it'll be just Virginia Beach being added in for 2015. There's been nothing rumored of another Texas team, so does the league add in the RoadWarriors again for 2015??

Sharks52
09-29-2014, 12:59 PM
http://lancasteronline.com/sports/barnstormers/atlantic-league-president-talks-expansion-all-star-game-and-more/article_7b389894-412a-11e4-87d2-001a4bcf6878.html#.VCGd91YwAkU, Once again nobody has been able to get a park built and it will be the same 8 teams as last year. I would guess the Diamond League is dead for 2015, too, as nothing's been posted on the website. The Atlantic League's got lots of big plans but they never seem to come to fruition as one new team always seems to disenfranchise a poor performer to keep the league at 8. My guess would be that if Fort Worth and Virginia Beach do enter the league in 2016 it will be Bridgeport and Camden being bumped out.

nksports
09-29-2014, 03:30 PM
I wouldn't hold my breath on Fort Worth unless it was a brand new entity. The current FW ownership was booted from the AA because of financial issues and nearly folded a couple of seasons ago when they bounced a check for baseballs. All of which is sad because they used to be a model franchise for indy baseball.

Sharks52
10-05-2014, 12:59 PM
Actually I wouldn't hold my breath on any of them. If I was a betting man I'd bet on six Atlantic League teams in 2016 unless the economics of Camden and Bridgeport really turn around next year.
I think there was a reason the AL recently moved their headquarters from Camden to Lancaster.

toad455
10-05-2014, 10:19 PM
I think the main reason Virginia Beach got pushed out of the 2015 was that the league didn't want to bring back the RoadWarriors. Without another Texas team, it would force the league to be uneven. If the league still doesn't have another Texas team by 2016, Virginia Beach may simply replace Bridgeport.

Sharks52
10-07-2014, 02:19 PM
To my knowledge the Neptunes haven't even broken ground yet on the stadium. Do they have financing yet? Maybe somebody can update us as the website has had nothing since April, not a good sign.