Positive Franchise Examples

[tmote]

It is clear to see that there is a great deal of negativity in all of the minor league basketball forums. However, there must be some positive examples out there on how to run a franchise. I am hoping people will reply any names of teams that they feel run successful programs. As I stated on a previous post, I am starting a new franchise in 2010-2011. I have spent several weeks studying successful minor league baseball programs, but I would like to examine some basketball teams as well.

As I stated earlier, I know there are plenty of bad examples. At the same time, there must be a few who are positive examples regardless of their league. Please, let’s keep this post positive. Thanks.

[robster2001]

The reality is that there aren't very many positive examples.

Success, in minor pro basketball, has been consistently elusive.

The short list probably starts with the Vermont Frost Heaves, who've survived for several years -- first, in the chaos of the ABA, then in the PBL.

The best example in the ABA may have been the Maywood Buzz, who were a long-running shoestring operation until they pulled out of the league this summer. I don't think the Buzz are done, just done with the ABA.

But the bottom line is that, from my seat on the outside looking in, minor pro basketball doesn't lend itself to long-term success.

I would imagine you'll get similar responses from the insiders looking out...

[Paul S]

I always thought the Halifax Rainmen were a well run outfit.

They had a good first season in the ABA, left the league after the end of the season because of all the BS of teams not showing up and tried to join the D-League, now they are PBL.

[preeths]

Off the top of my head, Vermont, Halifax and Wilmington in the PBL and Bellingham in the IBL seem to be relatively solid organizations. Kentucky and maybe Knoxville are the best the ABA has to offer, though like Manchester in the PBL, public acceptance has been slow in coming.

[tops804]

West Virginia's (Bluefield/Beckley) Blazers (ABA) at least played games, had
a fairly well updated website, and do get out in the community. They are
only entering their sophomore season (making it a bit premature to say for
sure).

[minorleagfan09]

in the NBDL the cream of the crop is definiately the Skyforce (Sioux Falls). Although you do have to give props to the Austin Toros for playing in the right sized venue.

[nksports]

Enid, Salina and Dodge City were all well run USBL teams. They never made much money, but marketed and drew a crowd. The owners all got burned out by the instability of the league.

[CHris902]

Outside of the D-League I think that the Halifax Rainmen, Rochester Razorsharks, and Vermont Frostheaves are at the top with the Wilmington Seadawgs and the Quebec Kebs also doing well.

Halifax drew about 3000 people per game and Rochester drew slightly more. Vermont did not release any attendance figures at all this season, but I'd guess at about 1000 - 1200 fans per night. So to give you an idea of how hard this is, the best teams in the minor leagues are struggling to draw over 1k fans.

It's also worth noting that all five of those teams realized that they needed to get the hell out of the ABA in order to be successful.

[minorleagfan09]

tmote idk what league you are getting into but as far as low budget goes the Harrisburg Horizon have run a sustainable men's and women's pro team for a long time now. they are likely making it work with 200-500 fans in the building most nights.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrisburg_Horizon
http://www.harrisburghorizon.com

I don't regularly attend the games (not in my area), but if I was starting a team I'd probably go out and talk to those guys (among others).

[zeke41]

As much as I've seen the ABA do people in, I think the Kentucky and Tennessee areas of the ABA have a promising opportunity to bring some exciting basketball to that part of the US. It reminds me of 2006 (last yearfor Rochester, Maryland and Wilmington in the ABA) when the Florida division, with Orlando, West Palm, Jacksonville and Miami were all less the 4 hours from eachother, and then Wilmington, Atlanta and South Alabama less than 8 hours away, making travel easy and no hotel rooms needed.

Particularly with the East Kentucky Miners, I know the fans there love basketball. The Miners, given the teams nearby to compete with, will likely be able to rebuild from that trecherous 2nd season.

If everything falls into the right place, no games are missed, and the fans grow to accept ABA basketball, the Miners are likely to be the next ABA success story. There are a lot of variables that could impact that, but...it looks good for them right now, especially being able to play the reigning ABA champion Bisons!

[tmote]

minorleaguefan,

Our team starts play in 2010. We have joined a league, but we are considering changing if the right opportunity presented itself. This past week, we signed a 2 year lease that the city worked out for us with a 6500 seat arena for pennies. Despite a great start, I have decided not to talk about my team on this site until the first year is completed. We believe we can run a successful franchise with integrity and honor. However, you have heard that line a 1,000 times and they all ended in the same way. As a result, we will not talk until we have accomplished something. I am using this forum right now for research. I am trying to find the best franchises and observe their practices. Thanks for your help.

[LightningMan]

minorleaguefan,

Our team starts play in 2010. We have joined a league, but we are considering changing if the right opportunity presented itself. This past week, we signed a 2 year lease that the city worked out for us with a 6500 seat arena for pennies. Despite a great start, I have decided not to talk about my team on this site until the first year is completed. We believe we can run a successful franchise with integrity and honor. However, you have heard that line a 1,000 times and they all ended in the same way. As a result, we will not talk until we have accomplished something. I am using this forum right now for research. I am trying to find the best franchises and observe their practices. Thanks for your help.
If you got a good deal, then good for you, but a 6500 seat arena is at bit large. Even in places with great fan interest, 6500 is a large room to fill.

[tops804]

As much as I've seen the ABA do people in, I think the Kentucky and Tennessee areas of the ABA have a promising opportunity to bring some exciting basketball to that part of the US. It reminds me of 2006 (last yearfor Rochester, Maryland and Wilmington in the ABA) when the Florida division, with Orlando, West Palm, Jacksonville and Miami were all less the 4 hours from eachother, and then Wilmington, Atlanta and South Alabama less than 8 hours away, making travel easy and no hotel rooms needed.

Particularly with the East Kentucky Miners, I know the fans there love basketball. The Miners, given the teams nearby to compete with, will likely be able to rebuild from that trecherous 2nd season.

If everything falls into the right place, no games are missed, and the fans grow to accept ABA basketball, the Miners are likely to be the next ABA success story. There are a lot of variables that could impact that, but...it looks good for them right now, especially being able to play the reigning ABA champion Bisons!

zeke41 -- I agree with most of what your saying. However, the one I bolded
above should probably not be considered a part of the ABA blueprint just
yet. Usually, next to the vaporware expansion teams, it is the second
opportunity the league CEO gives himself to put his foot in his mouth come
opening day....

With the absence of the CBA, the ABA should consider itself "the next
closest thing to the PBL" right now. I hope they can run with it...

[tmote]

double post. sorry

[tmote]

If you got a good deal, then good for you, but a 6500 seat arena is at bit large. Even in places with great fan interest, 6500 is a large room to fill.

It has 4500 seats built in. However, it can expand to that high. We got it for less than $800 a game for the next two years. We will have several youth promotions we hope to feel in dead spots with. For example, each school in the surrounding area will receive one home game where any student can come for free. We can do a lot of similar promotions for attendance because we are not pushed for funds during the first year. We have 80% of our budget already met and we are still over a year away.

[LightningMan]

It has 4500 seats built in. However, it can expand to that high. We got it for less than $800 a game for the next two years. We will have several youth promotions we hope to feel in dead spots with. For example, each school in the surrounding area will receive one home game where any student can come for free. We can do a lot of similar promotions for attendance because we are not pushed for funds during the first year. We have 80% of our budget already met and we are still over a year away.
4500 is a much better size, at the high end of what I would look for. Good luck.

[dmbishop]

If you got a good deal, then good for you, but a 6500 seat arena is at bit large. Even in places with great fan interest, 6500 is a large room to fill.

Tmote; I'm glad you said it has 4500 seats built in (and $800 a game is a steal even without concessions).

I always look at it as a full small area is better than an empty large arena that has more cache. If you are expecting 2000 a game and put it in a 4500 seat arena, at least it will be half-filled. In a 6500 seat arena, it will look like a sparse crowd. You'll get more attention if good seats are harder to come by.

It's kind of what you see with the Red Bulls in MLS. They get 15000-25000 a game, but play in a 75000 seat stadium. It looks empty, even with the top section and part of the sidelines covered. With the new stadium being finished (25000 capacity), it will be 75 -100% filled, creating more buzz.

Another example in my area would be the LI Ducks. They play to 100+ percent capacity every game in a 6100 seat stadium. They could easily expand it to 10000 and probably still sell out, but the way it is they make tickets something to be prized. There are stories in Newsday every year about the people who camp out for days to get the first individual game tickets when they go on sale. How many minor league teams have waiting lists for season tickets? The Ducks do.

It does sound like you are as well prepared as you could possibly be. Most people who get into Minor league ownership seem to do it from an ego-side approach and don't do their due diligence. I wish you all the best (and if you are in my area, I'll make it a point to go to the first game to support you).

Dave

[minorleagfan09]

tmote i hear what you are saying about research. if you want to PM me the leagues you are looking at I'll keep it to myself (if not no biggie). But you got it... with the state of minor league basketball... this is not the place to tout a franchise that is in its infancy.

there are D-League teams that play in a smaller venue than yours. Unless your city has as strong history of supporting minor league basketball (or is a town that really lacks quality basketball and the fans really want something) then you may have picked the wrong venue.

Personally I'd only get into an exposure league and would only rent out small DII, DIII, Community College, or NAIA gyms that seat 1500-2500.

You can get those gyms for as little as a couple hundred bucks a game. If you only end up with 1000 fans and you play 8 home games you could end up saving thousands of dollars by going with the small gym.

you've got to really watch your budget. will you honestly draw 4500 fans? 3500 fans? 2500 fans? To many teams lie to themselves that they will get big crowds. Most will be lucky to draw 500 or a 1000.

[tmote]

When dealing with venues it is a tough choice. For instance, if I get a building to big it will look empty. However, if I get one to small we will be looked at as a rec league. In my opinion, it was important to find a place that had seats and not bleachers. I think this helps in selling promotional packages tied in with free tickets.

Our goal in attendance for the first year is 1000-1500. Before you laugh yourself out of your seat, keep one thing in mind. Many of those will not be paid. We are spending the first year getting people to try-out our team. If they like them then they can spend $5-$20 on tickets the following season. One way we will try to get fans there, is the first game will only be $1 tickets. We have a sponsor that will make it “Their Company” $1 ticket night on all general admissions. The company will get a little bit more exposure because it is the team’s first game. On other nights we offer discounts for military, college, police, and even tickets for $2.50 for students on the campus where our arena is located.

We have several ideas, but none of them make it a guarantee to work. That is why it is a business venture. I have spent the last few months visiting with three minor-league baseball management teams. Minor league baseball seems to have the right idea. I have noticed they put baseball secondary to family entertainment. If it works for minor league baseball, why not basketball? A person does not go to a minor league baseball game to see a big name player. They go for all the other stuff. I might be wrong; God knows I have been several times in my life.

[LightningMan]

Our goal in attendance for the first year is 1000-1500. Before you laugh yourself out of your seat...
I don't get what I should be laughing about. That's the high end of a reasonable number if you actually play your games and are competitive. Wilmington didn't do that in the ABA but has easily done that in the PBL.

[minorleagfan09]

We have several ideas, but none of them make it a guarantee to work. That is why it is a business venture.

Yea we've had the hobby vs. business venture debate. I'd be trying to breakeven year one (at least give it my best shot). Most leagues outside the NBDL will let teams use high school courts (smaller than college) courts... the quality of the overall gym varies a lot too. Some leagues don't even all run with the same three point line. If you just get a nice small DIII gym and have a professional come in and tape down an NBA three point line... you are doing a lot more than most.

My only advice is to put together a full budget and figure out what it would take to meet it. As a fan small gyms can be great too. They have good qualities... not a bad seat in the house. Just don't use a H.S. one.

And it is just my opinion but I'd never give away tickets (free kids ticket with parent purchase is fine). But no giveaways IMO... at least make em' all pay something. Once you give it to them for free... they won't want to pay. Just ask your local stripper... oh damn I went there. :eek:

[LightningMan]

The usage of free tickets is far from a settled issue, and I wish you hadn't gone there because you know whom will be around to engage about it...again.

[minorleagfan09]

The usage of free tickets is far from a settled issue, and I wish you hadn't gone there because you know whom will be around to engage about it...again.

yea i know. just again for the record that was just my opinion and it is A-OK to disagree with me on that. If you want just post a link to previous comments if you disagreed with me. i won't engage anyone on that issue... so hopefully that won't turn into a 10 pager.

[LightningMan]

yea i know. just again for the record that was just my opinion and it is A-OK to disagree with me on that. If you want just post a link to previous comments if you disagreed with me. i won't engage anyone on that issue... so hopefully that won't turn into a 10 pager.
Nah, if I wanted to debate it, I would have. I was just afraid my "partner" in the discussion would chime in.

[not so fast]

Allow me to be cynical, cause I usually am. Why is a owner or potential owner gathering up information from people who you don't know, can't see, don't know thier names, don't know their experiences?

There are some good basketball people on here, but if I was truly looking to start a team, I might read this stuff, but whomever I deemed as a knowledgeable enough person, I would contact them thru private message and talk directly to them.

I mean the league offices also might be a good place to start, and I don't think any league President would suggest you start finding your anwsers from people you can't even see!

I know we all have egos on here (some larger than others) but this is odd. ( I know, I know, I am odd too)

[minorleagfan09]

Why is a owner or potential owner gathering up information from people who you don't know, can't see, don't know thier names, don't know their experiences?


I agree the best people to talk to are the ones that have proven their success and knowledge by running a sustainable franchise. That is exactly why I listed the EBA team that went on like a 7 year title run.

Anyways there is absolutely nothing wrong with gathering opinions. He is clearly not here to promote himself... as long as he remembers we are all just giving opinions... then we are probably a decent resource in combination with others.

[TEN]

When dealing with venues it is a tough choice. For instance, if I get a building to big it will look empty. However, if I get one to small we will be looked at as a rec league. In my opinion, it was important to find a place that had seats and not bleachers. I think this helps in selling promotional packages tied in with free tickets.

Our goal in attendance for the first year is 1000-1500. Before you laugh yourself out of your seat, keep one thing in mind. Many of those will not be paid. We are spending the first year getting people to try-out our team. If they like them then they can spend $5-$20 on tickets the following season. One way we will try to get fans there, is the first game will only be $1 tickets. We have a sponsor that will make it “Their Company” $1 ticket night on all general admissions. The company will get a little bit more exposure because it is the team’s first game. On other nights we offer discounts for military, college, police, and even tickets for $2.50 for students on the campus where our arena is located.

We have several ideas, but none of them make it a guarantee to work. That is why it is a business venture. I have spent the last few months visiting with three minor-league baseball management teams. Minor league baseball seems to have the right idea. I have noticed they put baseball secondary to family entertainment. If it works for minor league baseball, why not basketball? A person does not go to a minor league baseball game to see a big name player. They go for all the other stuff. I might be wrong; God knows I have been several times in my life.

An issue to consider....
After a year of selling tickets to fans for a dollar...or free...or whatever... Raising the ticket prices more than 100 percent or more won't go over very well.

Lesson I learned....You give somebody a cheap ticket (or free ticket) and that is what they will ALWAYS expect. That's from experience...Not to mention the fact that your tickets have to have some value if you expect sponsors to step up and invest in your product.

Good luck!

[LightningMan]

An issue to consider....
After a year of selling tickets to fans for a dollar...or free...or whatever... Raising the ticket prices more than 100 percent or more won't go over very well.
If that's what he said he was doing, you might have a point.

[zeke41]

You guys know I'm supportive of dialogue on the boards here. Tmote doesn't have to take any of the advice here as golden. However, one thing I have learned over the years is that being on the boards and sparking conversations about different things has provided a flash of brainstorming creativity that has been extremely beneficial, especially for the Flight.

Like me, I'd say Tmote isn't using these boards alone as a brainstorming base. It does get the wheels turning. For instance, someone mentioned doing the twitter group to have a Q&A with the PBL. You would think I would have thought about that before, but I didn't (too busy doing other things). A couple of days later, I started a twitter account and placed the status update on the Flight page. It isn't as functional as I'd like it to be yet (again...because I'm busy with more important issues right now), but it's set up and ready to utilize.

On top of that, we've garnered fans from all over the US, from California to Vermont (as well as several connections right here in Central Florida), just from me posting on the boards. I've come to realize that far more people view the boards than post. OSC is an invaluable asset to the minor league world.

[not so fast]

zeke,

how many people that view this board is going to actually buy a flight ticket?

I can remember attending Gary Steelheads games back in the mid 2000's when they were in the cba, , when they were bringing upwards to 2000 and more fans too games, and outside of steelheadsfan, I only know of 2 other posters that was on these boards from Gary, and I think they worked in the office for gary.

Rockford Lightning was around for years, a solid CBA franchise, and they had about 4 fans that posted. Out of thousands that attended games.

These message boards are for junkies like us, the average person could care less. Please keep a perspective.

[wellington]

zeke,

how many people that view this board is going to actually buy a flight ticket?

I can remember attending Gary Steelheads games back in the mid 2000's when they were in the cba, , when they were bringing upwards to 2000 and more fans too games, and outside of steelheadsfan, I only know of 2 other posters that was on these boards from Gary, and I think they worked in the office for gary.

Rockford Lightning was around for years, a solid CBA franchise, and they had about 4 fans that posted. Out of thousands that attended games.

These message boards are for junkies like us, the average person could care less. Please keep a perspective.
True. Your average fan is not going to be on a discussion board -- just us diehard nerds. However, the discussion boards are a valuable tool -- brainstorming ideas (what has worked, what does not work). Plus I think people are going to be more candid and brutally honest on the boards as opposed to meeting someone face-to-face. In addition, some owners may be tight lipped and not willing to share info. So, it is probably best to search for information from as many different angles as possible (discussion boards are a part of that). Lastly (and maybe the most important), discussion boards are great for networking. You never know who may read a post and/or do a google search and come across a discussion thread. In summary, you have to be careful with discussion boards and you cannot rely on them 100%, but ignoring the intrinsic value of discussion boards is a mistake as well. Just my 2 cents.

[zeke41]

For the record, I think we have differing opinions of what good perspective is, but that's ok.

Wellington is spot on - the key word is networking. You've undoubtedly heard the term 6 degrees of seperation. The more people you connect with, the larger your sphere of influence. The larger your sphere of influence, the better your chances of meeting sponsorship goals, especially if you uphold a professional, integrous reputation for all who know you to reference.

On top of that, the world is a lot smaller than it was 10 years ago. People are mobile, and relocate from state to state, and sometimes country to country, more often than ever before. Factor in the ability to sell merchandise via the internet, and you're talking about added revenue stream that you wouldn't grab otherwise.

I'm not talking about selling tickets to people out of state. I'm talking about the possibilities of expanding the sphere of influence. Tell me --- what's the down-side of having a fan base that extends beyond Central Florida...at the cost of posting and monitoring OSC, which is free? It's sounds like the same old song from you and your crew. Let's not have thread 3 closed because you have issues with me personally. Heck, it's because of this nonsense that I had a Florida Flight Team Thread closed.

[not so fast]

well if disagreeing with you is all it takes to get a thread closed then so be it.

I will not have my opinion stopped by you just to be your buddy.

I will stand by what i said, that people on this board does not, or will not save your franchise, or any other franchise, people on this board are not coming to the Throwbacks game, I surely never saw any. And the ones that did, were not coming cause of the great networking of the message board.

You just want to be right all the time, and I and others feel the need to correct you. As I said before, I hope you succeed. But I hope you also deal in reality.

Just let me know when you get your firsrt season ticket holder that says "hey, I bought this cause of all the wonderful conversation on the message board zeke. Thanks for all the great info from you and all the guys on it. I was going to buy an orlando Magic season ticket, but when I saw all the great things that DazeAndAmuzed said about the Flight, I just had to get my season tickets!"

[LightningMan]

Well if disagreeing with you is all it takes to get a thread closed then so be it. I will not have my opinion stopped by you just to be your buddy.
I'm pretty sure preeths's policy is that if you have an issue with board moderation, take it up with him off board.

[zeke41]

well if disagreeing with you is all it takes to get a thread closed then so be it.

I will not have my opinion stopped by you just to be your buddy.

I will stand by what i said, that people on this board does not, or will not save your franchise, or any other franchise, people on this board are not coming to the Throwbacks game, I surely never saw any. And the ones that did, were not coming cause of the great networking of the message board.

You just want to be right all the time, and I and others feel the need to correct you. As I said before, I hope you succeed. But I hope you also deal in reality.

Just let me know when you get your firsrt season ticket holder that says "hey, I bought this cause of all the wonderful conversation on the message board zeke. Thanks for all the great info from you and all the guys on it. I was going to buy an orlando Magic season ticket, but when I saw all the great things that DazeAndAmuzed said about the Flight, I just had to get my season tickets!"

We all have opinions...I'm here to read all of them, and filter accordingly.

I'll stand by my question: What's the down-side of me, or Tmote, or anyone utilizing these boards to stimulate some thoughts and ideals regarding our respective ventures? I told you, NSF...I'm not trying to sell a ticket on here! You say, again, I need to have more perspective. Help me gain that perspective...what's the downside?

This is not about me being right all the time...I'm just good at critiquing and breaking down communication to open up a transparent debate. So far, most of the critique I've received is speculation and opinion. "Oh, Zeke is gonna fail because I think so" or "Zeke can't play basketball at this level" or "Zeke doesn't have any money to own a team" or "Zeke is living in la-la-land wearing a headband and a suit!"

Show me some substance, like..."The Flight will fail because they are in a large market WITH an NBA team next door!" Now THAT....that is a genuine argument. History backs that up. I admit it is risky, but I believe we've found the angle and developed the key connections to make it happen for the Flight. I'll also admit that I am a hard-headed, competitive guy who thrives off of challenges in life. Pulling this off would be more than a moral victory...it would prove that a team can survive in a bigger market if it is done right. Time will tell.

Here's something else history backs up: I've squeaked by two free agent camps using everything I have to offer to play in the minor leagues. Ill-informed people (even coaches) have been wrong about me, in many regards. If I say I'm going to do something, then dog-gone-it I'm going to put my knuckles to the grind and make it happen. Failure lives in the mind of the person too fearful to try. Failure has no home in my mind...for even if something seems to be a failure to onlookers, the enriching lessons and experience garnered through those ventures proves otherwise, makes life exciting, and also prepares me for the next venture. Some might be comfortable collecting a regular check every week or two and sitting on a lay-z-boy watching life go by. I'm living! Real Life = passion + risk + reward!

That's my motivational sermon for the day!

[not so fast]

I came on this board to comment to the poster who started this thread, and said nothing to zeke, nor mentioned zeke, yet he comes on here and starts his usual dissertations and I have to listen to the Gospel, according to zeke.

I was not speaking to, nor about you when I came on this thread, so why do you keep bothering me?

I have heard your missionary zeal about your basketball career so much, it makes me want to scream.

Now to summarize my reason for posting at all, I was suprised that a potential owner wanted advice from people he did not know, or knew anything about. I don't think that is an unreasonable view as to this thread. However, if he feels he can get information better from here than from the league office, that is his perrogative.

Wow, now lets go Cubs!!! And then lets Go Bulls!!!!

[zeke41]

Sorry...it's the OCD in me...I told you I break down communication. Say what you mean, and mean what you say, and...know what you said!

I came on this board to comment to the poster who started this thread, and said nothing to zeke, nor mentioned zeke, yet he comes on here and starts his usual dissertations and I have to listen to the Gospel, according to zeke.

I was not speaking to, nor about you when I came on this thread, so why do you keep bothering me?

But we have...

zeke,

how many people that view this board is going to actually buy a flight ticket?
I can remember attending Gary Steelheads games back in the mid 2000's when they were in the cba, , when they were bringing upwards to 2000 and more fans too games, and outside of steelheadsfan, I only know of 2 other posters that was on these boards from Gary, and I think they worked in the office for gary.

Rockford Lightning was around for years, a solid CBA franchise, and they had about 4 fans that posted. Out of thousands that attended games.

These message boards are for junkies like us, the average person could care less. Please keep a perspective.

I'm sorry...I thought you were talking to me. Is there another Zeke on here? I Just want to be clear about who is bothering who. I just want substance. Critique me with substance or stop bothering me. I'm pretty sure I have more endurance than you or any other hater on here that lacks substance!

[tmote]

Allow me to be cynical, cause I usually am. Why is a owner or potential owner gathering up information from people who you don't know, can't see, don't know thier names, don't know their experiences?

There are some good basketball people on here, but if I was truly looking to start a team, I might read this stuff, but whomever I deemed as a knowledgeable enough person, I would contact them thru private message and talk directly to them.

I mean the league offices also might be a good place to start, and I don't think any league President would suggest you start finding your anwsers from people you can't even see!

I know we all have egos on here (some larger than others) but this is odd. ( I know, I know, I am odd too)

I know a lot of people on here are fans and some are over cynical. However, who better to help find positive examples from? If a cynical person thinks a team is running a franchise correctly, than it might be a good place to start researching.

[not so fast]

If you want to be accurate zeke, look at my 1st post, it wasnt about you. Those posts, and I think you are smart enough to figure out was addressed to you, only after you posted.

But if I play this game wih you, then I am as childish as you are. I will agree with the moderators on this, if you have a problem with me, then send me a private message.

We all know your story zeke. You have established many fans and friends here. And thats great. People respect you for your efforts, even though I and a few others think differently, I don't really know what a hater is, cause I don't hate anyone (except the 69 mets for beating the cubs).

And I will tell you this, when the Flight have their first game, I am coming to Orlando to attend. I need a vacation!

[dmbishop]

zeke,

how many people that view this board is going to actually buy a flight ticket?

Well, I for one would probably go to a Flight game if I am in Orlando when they are having a game just based on what I have seen on OSC. As I would for a number of the other people I have gotten to "know" here. Personally, I love going to sporting events when I am traveling. It's a great way to spend an evening.

I also ended up taking a friend of mine, his 2 kids, and my son to a Strong Island Sound game after hearing about the team on OSC (lord knows there was no press or any other way to find out about the team on LI). I also approached Darren about a marketing opportunity based on his posts here (you can read about how that fell through at http://www.oursportscentral.com/boards/showthread.php?t=12690).

So, it does happen that OSC can directly result in ticket sales. Yes, a very small number, but given the cost, 1 ticket turns a profit.

It's like the blog I write for my company (http://www.bbsi.com/wp/). If one business sees it and decides to use my services, then it is money and time well spent.

Dave

[not so fast]

Wow, all these years posting, if I only would have known. Man, I could have saved the gary steelheads, the Rockford Lightning, the quad cities riverhawks, just by marketing on the message board.

[dmbishop]

Wow,

No need to be a smart alec. Nobody said that you would fill an arena based on an OSC post, but an extra ticket sale is an extra ticket sale that you wouldn't have had otherwise.

And I will tell you this, when the Flight have their first game, I am coming to Orlando to attend.

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you wouldn't have known zeke or the Orlando Flight if it wasn't for his posts on OSC.

Dave

[wellington]

Wow, all these years posting, if I only would have known. Man, I could have saved the gary steelheads, the Rockford Lightning, the quad cities riverhawks, just by marketing on the message board.

I know you are being sarcastic, but why be so negative and cynical? Like Monty Python said, "always look on the bright side of life." This is not entirely addressed at you, but starting out with a negative attitude is setting oneself up for failure.

[zeke41]

I was helping to get entertainment for an event to benefit a neighborhood group in my area. We were selling tickets to the event that included food cooked by the supporters (over 30 dishes), and would have interesting activities for everyone from kids to older adults. By the time I went to contact SI looking to see if we could get a few of the players, the dance team, or the mascot for the event, we had already sold over 200 tickets and ended up with around 400 attendees.

To give you an idea of the other acts we had there, we had face painting, a clown, a karate demonstration, dance acts (modern, Irish, and ballroom), a well-known local comic, a magician, a marching band, and the like. Plus raffles (50-50 and others for prizes). We also had a DJ and a professional MC. The event was being held in a high school gym.

...

Ultimately, the event was a success. It was covered in the local neighborhood papers (Newsday did send a reporter, but they didn't run a story) and we got a segment on News12 Long Island, which is Cablevision's news station. BTW, I did tell everyone at SI that there was going to be media coverage.

To me, it was a no-brainer. If they wanted publicity, I was handing them a whole lot of free coverage. Lots of kids and families there, it was in the early part of the basketball season, and they were not on a road trip at the time.

Oh yeah, shockingly, it was near the beginning of the season when they folded mid-way through.

Dave

Case in point...this is another example of what can be gained here on the boards. This sounds like a wonderful ideal for an event. DM, I'd love some more specific details regarding this. We are about to volunteer as the Big Brother for the House of Hope - Orlando (touring the facility in 2 weeks). Maybe we can do a similar event to raise money for them, as they are non-profit, in the distant future.

The opportunities to make a difference in the community with a minor league professional basketball team are endless. Some work...some don't. I'm on the side where you see what works, down to every detail, and customize it for your own market. This worked...so we will see about replicating! Thanks for the encouragement, support and ideal DM.

More people are likely come to Orlando over most other destinations in the US (thanks to Disney World). I get more out-of-town visitors now that I live in Orlando than ever!!!! That's why my house in Orlando includes a permanent guest room. The likelihood of someone wandering into Orlando and catching a Flight basketball game as an alternative day of entertainment (there's only so much Disney World grown ups can take) are higher than someone doing the same in, say, Halifax or Rochester. Having a pressence on here is beneficial! Again - not going to pack the house with these types of tickets, but a ticket sold is a profit turned! You can't forget about the little things!

[one way]

There you go Not so fast. You can attend a Flight game and saty at Zekes house! Of course he has no league to play in and no arena to play in and no money or staff or insurance or office space and no budget. But, he is thinking outside the box concerning bring a plate of food to the game. I am sure that your imaginary vendors will agree to that

[zeke41]

Ahhhhh...the high road.

[DazedAndAmused]

I was going to buy an orlando Magic season ticket, but when I saw all the great things that DazeAndAmuzed said about the Flight, I just had to get my season tickets!"

I understand the sarcasm here of course, but the basis of the remark distorts the written record.. Go back and read what I wrote.

I didn't write anything good or bad about the Flight. I know nothing about the Flight. I don't know Zeke or his plan. I only know a little of the story..college ball, CBA days, etc. posted here. I know that there is no track record to judge by yet. They'll fail or succeed.

I only joined in because of the ridiculous nature of some of the posts.....capped by criticism of what the guy wore on the bench. Some of you have made it personal with they guy for some reason. But that's your beef, not mine.

If you reference me or anything I write, out of courtesy, please do it accurately. The record of what we all write speaks for itself.

[one way]

A realist road not a fantasy road

[wellington]

I see another good thread heading south pretty fast...

[not so fast]

dazedAndAmuzed, didn't mean anything by it, I just randomly thought of your name. I did not mean to reflect your opinion one way or another. You just have a name that comes to mind.

Actually, will the future coach from the Flight and gm be in chicago for the pbl camp? Another great place to market your team Zeke. That might be a better marketing tool than posting here, and are you playing in the camp again.

Speaking of this, zeke if you come to the camp, and get drafted by one of the teams , Will that team hold your rights and what happens if the Flight starts up and you are signed with another team? Will you play against the Flight? Now that will be great theatre! And a wonderful promotion. Just don't pull a pete rose in that game zeke!

Duke of welllngton, you seem like a good guy. Chill, and lets have a little fun. We poke a little at zeke, but I know i poke fun at myself way more on here than I do anyone. So lets not take a message board so serious.

I'm a nerd that enjoys basketball, baseball, and old tv shows. I love ribs, chicken, and watermelon, and I watch bill o reilley every night on fox news, right after I watch the andy griffith show. I'm sure even zeke watches more hip stuff than I do! One more thing, love me some grape and orange soda!

[zeke41]

I will be playing in the camp, mostly to get a good run and have some fun. I love coming into a gym like Susan Boyle, having everyone play me for a joke, only to shock the pants off of people. It's a rush. I'm not all that, but I'm better than any stranger thinks I am at first glance.

The Flight won't launch until 2011...not this coming season but the season afterward. So, in actuality, if I were to be drafted, or if a team was interested, it wouldn't make much of a difference as far as the Flight goes. The other benefit is I have a lot more to offer than an ego and some playing skills. I'm not really holding my breath, though. I'll play well in the camp (just like last year), and if someone approaches me with an offer, I'll consider it.

In such an event, I'll have to weigh it out. I have a 3 month old baby girl now, a team in pre-launch mode, and a wife whom I hated leaving when I was in Kentucky, even though she's my biggest fan, and was even supportive of me going to Chicago last season if I wanted to go. Although some people think otherwise, and as much as I'm passionate about basketball, my family means more than anything to me. That's why I've been so consumed with creating a basketball opportunity in Orlando. I've had some fantastic blessings come my way in basketball. Some might call it luck...call it whatever you want. I've been fortunate, and I've learned so many different aspects of the business, from playing, leadership, training, marketing, the politics, the business behind the game, etc. I know enough to attempt what I am trying to attempt, and I know what I'm personally capable of (both on and off the court). Regardless of how it turns out, the next 2 years will undoubtedly be 2 very exciting years! If it works out the way I intend it to work out, it should be very exciting for others to follow as well!

On another note, I will be there to market the team a bit, and who knows...you might be right. Perhaps the next coach or a possible player or two will show up for the camp. I'm sure there will be people there who monitor these boards, and I'll probably have more eyes on me than most other strangers. I'm okay with that. Perhaps I'll enlighten a few people...perhaps I'll give more fuel for the fire. Either way, I'm going to have fun.

[one way]

Not so fast please go to this camp so i can hear the straight scoop on how this guy does. Please.

[wellington]

Not so fast please go to this camp so i can hear the straight scoop on how this guy does. Please.

Since you are SO interested, why don't you go? Please.

[one way]

I can't. That is why I asking Not so fast if he is going. Maybe you can go and give us a report,