just curious, did the IBL play all scheduled games...?

[DazedAndAmused]

..this year?

[alaska]

No, the IBL did not play all of its scheduled games: Mikal, the commish, simply fills in another team , or removes the team that could not make it from the schedule; China team last season was removed in the middle of the season, Games added and subtracted at will with the Central Oregon team(his team).

If you call just removing games because the team(China) didn't show, playing all your games or moving opponents and games around during the season, playing all your games and in some cases, cancelling complete road trips because the team couldn't make it, playing all your games; then according to the commish Mikal, it is.

Mikal and Uncle Joe is the same, only difference, Uncle Joe is a used car salesman and Mikal uses the Enron approach; Both cash grabbers and does nothing for their league teams, not even paying for officials.

[one way]

Yea! True to the last word. I have been saying it for years, the IBA is a rec league and the commish is a joke. No insurance, high school gyms, players not paid, refs not paid etc. It takes more than scrolling off press releases to make your league run. What a joke

[baller12]

The IBL is not a joke.... Check some of the names in the IBL and you will see there are quality NBA players in that league even though they play in high school and college. But at least they play afull season and not fold all the teams and make up a playoff bracket. Actually I was at the playoffs and watch everything and it was ran very professional I think some of the league commissioners for other leagues need to see how it was ran, cause it was great enviroment for the fans and players. By the way it was great basketball to watch, It was like watching mavs and suns play up and down high pace ball game.

[one way]

Looks like you read that right off the IBL web site! Thanks. Just the fact that you countered with those arguements show that you are a shill for the IBL. Joke

[preeths]

From the IBL schedule we received before the season, no more than 11 games were canceled. That number may be high as some games, particularly those originally scheduled against the Chinese team, were rescheduled but not reported to OSC.

[DazedAndAmused]

From the IBL schedule we received before the season, no more than 11 games were canceled. That number may be high as some games, particularly those originally scheduled against the Chinese team, were rescheduled but not reported to OSC.

That would actually be the best of all of the non dleagues represented on the forum if my count is right. So a max of 11 games were cancelled. How many were played as scheduled (eg, the teams that were actually scheduled played that day)? What was the disparity in #s of games played overall?

IMO, changes in the teams and schedule aren't an issue if teams are playing ~ the same number of games. I could do the research here myself, but I wouldn't get the color commentary that brings me to OSC. :D

[preeths]

My quick count, which may include a couple of the rescheduled games, is 175 IBL games scheduled. So using the 11 canceled as a starting point, the IBL played at least 93.7 percent of the schedule it submitted to OSC to begin the season.

[DazedAndAmused]

My quick count, which may include a couple of the rescheduled games, is 175 IBL games scheduled. So using the 11 canceled as a starting point, the IBL played at least 93.7 percent of the schedule it submitted to OSC to begin the season.

Sorry, I didn't mean for you to have to do the 164/175 math for me!

I'm really wondering is how many of the games actually got played as scheduled initially (same teams, same date.) That data might have to be extracted manually (which would be a pain).

From what I can tell, they likely did a lot better than any independent league last year (aba, cba, pbl), but I'm trying to get a handle on how much scrambling the league had to do to make it happen (eg, with the commissioners own teams as one poster suggests.)

BTW, having teams that the commissioner can control on a dime is NOT a bad thing in the minors. I was just curious about how often they had to be deployed.

[sonnie20]

The PBL had at least one team fold in the middle of the year and we (the Battle Creek Knights) played in at least two high school gyms one in which they had to tape a three point line down with duct tape the other had one shot clock at the scorers table. At least when we were in the IBL they didn't just up and change formats to suit certain teams that were owned by big wigs in the league!

[preeths]

There were considerable changes to the IBL schedule just because of the shuffling that had to be done due to the no-show of the Chinese team. My guess is that 15-20 games were impacted.

[LightningMan]

The PBL had at least one team fold in the middle of the year...
Two actually, and germane to the discussion.

...and we (the Battle Creek Knights) played in at least two high school gyms one in which they had to tape a three point line down with duct tape the other had one shot clock at the scorers table. At least when we were in the IBL they didn't just up and change formats to suit certain teams that were owned by big wigs in the league!
Look, dude. Get over it. Yes, it'd be better if the PBL didn't play in high school facilities, but those games, at least, did get played and are irrelevant to the discussion. And every time you kvetch about the championship game, you lose a little more empathy from me. Yes, BC got hosed on the deal. New subject.

[alaska]

Sonnie, The IBL commish is doing the same thing the PBL big wigs did. The IBL championship game was suppose to be a one game championship played on July 18th, this was the IBL plan all year until one week ago and suddenly when Los Angeles Lightning with a wealthy owner and 6 former NBA players qualified for the championship game.
The IBL championship game was changed to a best 2 of 3, instead of the single championship game and the championships was moved from July 18 to July 24-26th in Los Angeles.
Do the math, the IBL commish did.

[DazedAndAmused]

Sonnie, The IBL commish is doing the same thing the PBL big wigs did. The IBL championship game was suppose to be a one game championship played on July 18th, this was the IBL plan all year until one week ago and suddenly when Los Angeles Lightning with a wealthy owner and 6 former NBA players qualified for the championship game.
The IBL championship game was changed to a best 2 of 3, instead of the single championship game and the championships was moved from July 18 to July 24-26th in Los Angeles.
Do the math, the IBL commish did.

Yeah, great point. I was somewhat critical of the PBLs playoff management (it could have been better for sure), but in retrospect, this is the minor leagues and I think that some flexibility is required depending upon the opportunity in front of you. I'm not defending the PBL or IBL here necessarily, but there is a reality that must be faced. This ain't the NBA.

[not so fast]

until the ibl can figure out a way that all teams make that make the playoffs actually play, then the championship is meaningless. If only the teams that can afford to make the playoffs play in it, then whats the sense of even having a playoff.

To the pbl credit, all the teams that qualified did play in the playoffs. that is not the case in the ibl.

[mammal]

From IBL Commissioner-

Posters- you can dislike the IBL all you want, but please do not lie about it- that is not right. Lies can cause unfair damage in areas where it takes six years to build. I will never argue your opinion but statements that are false have to be corrected-

1) Central Oregon Hotshots (Commissioner’s team) was used to fill gaps left by China- but this is a bragging point about the IBL- nobody lost their home dates because the Commissioner has backup plans and contingencies (this is a good thing, something to compliment, not put down)

2) Only two teams out of fifteen play in high school gyms- not that we apologize for that

3) No player was ‘not paid’- I am familiar with every team; everyone got what they were told and more in some cases… and referees were paid as well

You can hate the IBL- we have no issues with that- no one is forcing you to like the IBL, but do not tell untruths

[minorleagfan09]

3) No player was ‘not paid’- I am familiar with every team; everyone got what they were told and more in some cases… and referees were paid as well

You can hate the IBL- we have no issues with that- no one is forcing you to like the IBL, but do not tell untruths


Holland Blast Tryout March 14th 4-7pm at Holland HS! - Mar 10, 2009 (by Lucius Jones)

The Holland Blast of the IBL will be conducting tryouts at Holland High School March 14th from 4-7pm. The Holland Blast will not be able to house or pay players this season but will be making every effort to produce looks overseas for its players. They have sent several guys over water in past years and plan to continue this trend. Players will practice once a week and play a 20 game schedule. Contact Owner Tyler Whitcomb for more information.

http://www.globenews24.com/EN/news,ibl-holland-blast-tryout-march-14th-4-7pm-at-holland-hs
---------------------------

I did a little research on this mammal poster. Turns out the guy is Jeff Duncan who wants to be taken seriously as a journalist. Unfortunately it is clear you are just the IBL's puppet. If you want to be a journalist do your due diligence and some investigative reporting. Otherwise just be honest as being someone who just promotes the IBL.

If the IBL Commish wants to post... he can sign up for a user name.

[DazedAndAmused]

Holland Blast Tryout March 14th 4-7pm at Holland HS! - Mar 10, 2009 (by Lucius Jones)

The Holland Blast of the IBL will be conducting tryouts at Holland High School March 14th from 4-7pm. The Holland Blast will not be able to house or pay players this season but will be making every effort to produce looks overseas for its players. They have sent several guys over water in past years and plan to continue this trend. Players will practice once a week and play a 20 game schedule. Contact Owner Tyler Whitcomb for more information.

http://www.globenews24.com/EN/news,ibl-holland-blast-tryout-march-14th-4-7pm-at-holland-hs
---------------------------

I did a little research on this mammal poster. Turns out the guy is Jeff Duncan who wants to be taken seriously as a journalist. Unfortunately it is clear you are just the IBL's puppet. If you want to be a journalist do your due diligence and some investigative reporting. Otherwise just be honest as being someone who just promotes the IBL.

If the IBL Commish wants to post... he can sign up for a user name.

Personally, I find it a little "uncool" to call out a poster by name who hasn't specifically ID'd themselves. We've been there before with poor results. Thumbs down award of the day to MLF09.

[minorleagfan09]

Personally, I find it a little "uncool" to call out a poster by name who hasn't specifically ID'd themselves. We've been there before with poor results. Thumbs down award of the day to MLF09.

IDK this isn't just joe fan and this isn't a case where someone sent me a PM and then i disclosed personal information. Jeff Duncan is employed by KSEI/ESPN Radio in Idaho. http://www.faniq.com/user/sportsmammal

This is a public person... now granted he isn't Ric Bucher but why shouldn't we treat him the same. If Duncan is basically what MSNBC is for liberals (and what FoxNews is for conservatives) for the IBL (with minor league bball as the spectrum)... why isn't calling that out fair game?

This isn't Private Citizen Joe. He might not be a huge celebrity but when you do ESPN radio you lead a public life. And he ought to be held accountable just like all the rest of them.

It has always been ok to call out radio guys for what they say.

A guy who works for ESPN radio just told us all players got paid. The owner from Holland put out PRs saying he wasn't paying anyone. That's just how it is. And if Duncan did his reporting instead of playing defense for the IBL he'd know that.

[not so fast]

well as someone who is familiar with the ibl, it clearly does not pay all its players, and never have and never will. And in some cases, don't pay their coaches.

This league is similar to the aba in some regards, but I don't think as bad. but I will say this, they have had some decent franchises, and i just don't think dulio had the knowledge of how to make it better.

The league needed a midwest director or commisioner, so to try and hold the midwest teams together.

Calling people out is silly, this is a message board for discussions, and that is all.

[sonnie20]

Lightninman, I was drawing comparisons as another post on here talked about teams folding and playing in high school gyms. And when Battle Creek was in the IBL they honored their playoff schedule and I wasn't aware they had changed it. All I can speak for is when we were in the IBL and yes we actually won the first year we were in (22 and 0). And for a league that claims to be the best(as some do) there sure are alot of comparisons. And I never will get over it and don't care if anyone likes it or not. P.S. and by the way I'm not looking for empathy from you because you seem to stick with the management.

[mammal]

IBL Commissioner is too busy to do every little thing- there is nothing wrong with that. IBL Commissioner and Mammal are not hiding anything.

Mammal debunks lies about the IBL- there is nothing wrong with that.

Again, you (poster) implied players are being mistreated/owed money and this is not; the Holland post proves that- IBL owners are upfront and players are not being mistreated, no one is being forced to ‘play’ basketball in April, May and June on the weekends.

If you are saying the IBL barely pays players, we are fine with that but do not imply people are being mistreated.

[minorleagfan09]

IBL Commissioner is too busy to do every little thing- there is nothing wrong with that. IBL Commissioner and Mammal are not hiding anything.

Mammal debunks lies about the IBL- there is nothing wrong with that.

Again, you (poster) implied players are being mistreated/owed money and this is not; the Holland post proves that- IBL owners are upfront and players are not being mistreated, no one is being forced to ‘play’ basketball in April, May and June on the weekends.

If you are saying the IBL barely pays players, we are fine with that but do not imply people are being mistreated.

25k league fee to get in and some teams don't even pay their players or coaches. bottom line... that is jacked up. spin it however you want Bill-o. when i said and others said some players didn't get paid anything... it was true. you were incorrect we were correct.

i went back through 10 pages in the IBL forum and Duncan hasn't actually started any threads he just jumps in for the IBL Commish when the topic turns negative about the IBL. for someone who calls himself a journalist and works for espn that is really just sad.

I'm glad you are not hiding anything Mammal. Just be honest and say you are simply here to defend the IBL and not honestly evaluate it. You provide positive spin.

if anyone goes back and reads the threads it is pretty obvious that Mammal has just been the IBL's boy. Clearly not an independent journalist. I bet if he actually did a balanced piece (the good and the bad) on the IBL the Commish wouldn't be his friend anymore. :cry:

[preeths]

Let's say that some teams don't pay their players. If the players know that in advance, then nobody's being mistreated. You can say that means the team isn't truly professional, that's an entirely different matter. Why are some people stuck on this piddly league entrance fee? It's nothing. Just about every league charges something to get in.

[minorleagfan09]

Let's say that some teams don't pay their players. If the players know that in advance, then nobody's being mistreated. You can say that means the team isn't truly professional, that's an entirely different matter. Why are some people stuck on this piddly league entrance fee? It's nothing. Just about every league charges something to get in.

Yea that is the question really. Do all players who show up to tryouts understand that most teams don't pay much.... or worse anything at all? At least the Holland owner made it known up front. About a league having any credibility and being a professional league.... well isn't that what matters? We've certainly identified rec league qualities here.

What sucks even more is the scheduling that prevents most players from keeping or maintaining employment. So not only do you pay them dirty or next to nothing but it is very hard for them to work. Another issue that you'd expect from honest journalism over the years by someone who covers the league.

There is a huge difference from entering a league for a few K and 25k monetarily...but other than that not much. Is the talent level better than the WCBL or WBA? Nope. But the costs are significantly more.

75k or 20k. The difference between those budgets are huge.

Let's just say what is true... Jeff Duncan... with ESPN... is a spin doctor for the IBL and not a legit reporter who reports the good, the bad, and everything in between about the IBL.

[preeths]

I don't get it. If the team makes their deal known in advance, and the team we're talking about here did just that, what do the players have to complain about? Indeed, are the players complaining? What would you have the team do, not schedule Friday and Saturday night games if a player or two has a weekend job? Look, no one is saying life in the low minors is easy. Quite the contrary, it often demands sacrifices. Those who don't want to make the sacrifices shouldn't be in it. Rec leagues aren't as demanding. There's one difference.

I don't know anything about the WCBL, but the WBA missed several games due to teams not showing up. The IBL apparently scrambled to make sure no one missed a home game. Yes, that's a difference - a difference you pay for.

[minorleagfan09]

Indeed, are the players complaining? What would you have the team do, not schedule Friday and Saturday night games if a player or two has a weekend job?

I don't know anything about the WCBL, but the WBA missed several games due to teams not showing up. The IBL apparently scrambled to make sure no one missed a home game. Yes, that's a difference - a difference you pay for.

You can't accommodate everyone clearly. But YES games should be played on the weekends. It at least gives players a chance to earn a living. The vast VAST majority of these guys won't play in Europe or the NBDL. They need a career. If the IBL was scheduling weekend games and only payed players 25 bucks I'd leave that alone.

The WCBL and UBL played all their games. I'm 99% sure the EBA did but I can't confirm that so I won't make the statement that I'm sure. They generally do though. It is not about money. You can have a lower budget league and play all your games.

Anyways there is good and bad aspects of each league. At the time it came out the IBL was doing a lot of good things. BUT the league clearly hasn't adapted to the changing times.

Look I don't hate the IBL by any means but I will admit I'm annoyed by Jeff Duncan (who is supposed to be legit media with ESPN) being just a spin doctor (lap dog) for the IBL. But then again he has been exposed so now when posters see his posts they know his motives.

Again it was Jeff Duncan that said all players got paid. I said they didn't and I backed it up. If Jeff Duncan did actual journalism he'd admit he was wrong. Instead he just trys to spin it. And that inlies the problem with Jeff Duncan of ESPN Idaho. Which is probably something I'll put in my signature. There are enough mean spirited ABA bloggers... we need someone mean spirited about the IBL to balance this out. Both leagues have problems... the ABA is A LOT worse.. but the IBL has issues as well.

[minorleagfan09]

ok got my signature... i'm happy now :)

[Ken, Steelheads fan]

...everyone got what they were told and more in some cases... Seems to be a pretty accurate statement to me as well. The Holland players were told they would get no pay and no housing. Personally, I don't agree with NOT paying players, but there you have it. They were told in advance. Also, mammal said a while back that he was working for the IBL in an official capacity. That's no surprise. The IBL commish has also posted on this forum.

My take on working for an ESPN affiliate and making ends meet:

My daughter is a television reporter (NOT ESPN) and her mug is on the tube almost everyday. People stop her for her autograph ALL the time...guess what?!? The pay is all jacked-up and the only people making BIG money are big market anchors. Lately she's been bugging me about mooching (her word) and moving back home. The letters E.S.P.N aren't that big a deal, especially when you're talking about radio. The Gary Railcats PA announcer and sometimes Steelheads announcer had an affiliated ESPN sports talk show. He currently has a local public radio sports talk show, but he doesn't turn down gigs working for the local teams.

I hope I made a point in this ramble.

[minorleagfan09]

[u][i]

I hope I made a point in this ramble.

I think you did. Let me make it clear... I don't think that Holland scammed anyone. My response was to somebody who accused me and others of spreading mistruths. The fact remains that not all teams paid players which was what Duncan was trying to tell us was false.

Not that Duncan shouldn't get paid for working for the IBL but my bet is that he is a volunteer like that ABA guy who just stepped down. Maybe he has a gig that pays but I doubt it pays hardly anything if he does (not likely though IMO).

Duncan just seems like a guy who wants to or thinks he is important because he has connections to some minor league commissioner guy. Duilio has done some pretty cool things with amateur basketball but as a League Commissioner he really hasn't been that revolutionary. Minor League basketball is changing fast and passing him by. He's got a decent shot at keeping his league together in the northwest... but the midwest is a complete mess.

If he was just Joe the Fan I'd have just disagreed with him and left it at that. But once I found out he was a member of the media (even if just a small time guy) I became pretty annoyed by his posts. Even if he is a volunteer for the IBL... it doesn't excuse his entire contribution of puff and B/S both in his articles and his posts.

But hey I have my biases too. I am interested in leagues that run on low budgets and play their games. With IBL league fees and budgets I find it inexcusable that the league commish would take big checks from teams and allow them to run with volunteer players. And we haven't even discussed non profit status and non contact sport workers compensation.

[LightningMan]

And I never will get over it and don't care if anyone likes it or not.
Then might I suggest you stop talking about it?

P.S. and by the way I'm not looking for empathy from you because you seem to stick with the management.
No. I don't. Because I don't nit pick the PBL about everything this has been turned by some (including you) into my somehow being in love with the PBL. I am a fan of a team, the Wilmington Sea Dawgs. I was a fan when they were in the ABA. I was a fan when they were in the PBL. And I'll be a fan when they move to another league (as they are possibly going to do). While I would rather the PBL succeed than not, I am not a PBL cheerleader.

[DazedAndAmused]

...everyone got what they were told and more in some cases... Seems to be a pretty accurate statement to me as well. The Holland players were told they would get no pay and no housing. Personally, I don't agree with NOT paying players, but there you have it. They were told in advance. Also, mammal said a while back that he was working for the IBL in an official capacity. That's no surprise. The IBL commish has also posted on this forum.

My take on working for an ESPN affiliate and making ends meet:

My daughter is a television reporter (NOT ESPN) and her mug is on the tube almost everyday. People stop her for her autograph ALL the time...guess what?!? The pay is all jacked-up and the only people making BIG money are big market anchors. Lately she's been bugging me about mooching (her word) and moving back home. The letters E.S.P.N aren't that big a deal, especially when you're talking about radio. The Gary Railcats PA announcer and sometimes Steelheads announcer had an affiliated ESPN sports talk show. He currently has a local public radio sports talk show, but he doesn't turn down gigs working for the local teams.

I hope I made a point in this ramble.

I must be missing the big controversy here. There are a handful of journalists and/or writers that freelance for minor league bball teams and/or leagues. They have to eat and more power to them. Fells is working for a league now. Chuck helps the PBL (and I assume the CBA back in the day.) So, mammal does the same. There are other examples I'm sure. I haven't witnessed any real journalistic integrity compromised. If we didn't have these guys around, all the teams might end up sounding like the Gwizz.

The IBL might need to take a few lumps for some things, but from what I can see they have it together about as well as any other independent, particularly any of the spring leagues.

[minorleagfan09]

The IBL might need to take a few lumps for some things, but from what I can see they have it together about as well as any other independent, particularly any of the spring leagues.


I agree with the first part and disagree with the 2nd. The Eastern Basketball Alliance has been around since 1996 and before that it was the Alantic Basketball Association. Like all minor leagues in basketball it has its flaws as well... but the IBL could learn a lot from it. Holland actually has it figured out. The IBL provides zero value to them. They are just three letters strung together. The IBL isn't tied to the NBA and the international teams (outside of canada) are just a gimmick. That china team sucked something fierce.

Holland can get together with a bunch of other teams in the midwest and put 3 new letters together and save a lot of money.

[sonnie20]

I agree with Minorleagefan there are some teams in the midwest looking. And Lightningman if you don't like my comments don't bring it up as I'am a fan of the Knights first and foremost. I also liked Wilmington as they played three games in Battle Creek and I can't say enough good things about K-rich, he was one of the coolest guys in the PBL.

[DazedAndAmused]

I agree with the first part and disagree with the 2nd. The Eastern Basketball Alliance has been around since 1996 and before that it was the Alantic Basketball Association. Like all minor leagues in basketball it has its flaws as well... but the IBL could learn a lot from it. Holland actually has it figured out. The IBL provides zero value to them. They are just three letters strung together. The IBL isn't tied to the NBA and the international teams (outside of canada) are just a gimmick. That china team sucked something fierce.

Holland can get together with a bunch of other teams in the midwest and put 3 new letters together and save a lot of money.

I definitely see the value of regional, low budget "single A" leagues. I'm not sure the EBA model is ideal though. For one, I don't think their footprint is small enough. A single A league I believe needs an even smaller cluster. Their web presence is less than impressive (and that's the easy part.) You could take $250 from just one of those wire releases you propose and make it look much better. Isn't this a league with one team that played 5 games in the ABA, ran out of money, and complained their arena was on a hill?

The IBL, love it or hate it, despite all of its problems, is a notch up, more polished, and more on the radar with scouts. (That I have confirmed with my scouting contacts as I wrote previously.) That said, we need a really organized single A league that knows how to build closer clusters and not move on to the next until the previous is running. Frankly it isn't that hard, but we don't have the greatest business minds (at least that are funded to make it happen.) Why not? A good business mind would never get into it to begin with. Let's hope some busy savvy hobbyists get the urge to do it right.

Right now, the PBL and IBL seem to be the most organized and legit independents. Some of the others have potential but need a few "real players" (off court and on) to get the attention and respect they're seeking. Others have proven to be vaporware so far.

[preeths]

I must be missing the big controversy here. There are a handful of journalists and/or writers that freelance for minor league bball teams and/or leagues. They have to eat and more power to them. Fells is working for a league now. Chuck helps the PBL (and I assume the CBA back in the day.) So, mammal does the same. There are other examples I'm sure. I haven't witnessed any real journalistic integrity compromised. If we didn't have these guys around, all the teams might end up sounding like the Gwizz.

The IBL might need to take a few lumps for some things, but from what I can see they have it together about as well as any other independent, particularly any of the spring leagues.

I'm in the same boat as Ken and DandA. I don't see the big controversy. I know the IBL has its flaws, but frankly the majority of those mentioned here are shared with other minor leagues. It's hard to hunt down any real meat from the critics in this thread. Franchises cost too much? If you don't have 25k, you shouldn't be doing this. The player pay is lousy? Welcome to the minors. The schedule is inconvenient for players? See 'Welcome to the minors.' Some game opponents were swapped? Not good, but looks like it was making the best of a bad situation and no one lost a home game. Now we're supposed to get up in arms about what an alleged unofficial spokesperson for the league said? Meh.

[minorleagfan09]

I don't see the big controversy.

Franchises cost too much? If you don't have 25k, you shouldn't be doing this.

The player pay is lousy? Welcome to the minors.

The schedule is inconvenient for players? See 'Welcome to the minors.'

Now we're supposed to get up in arms about what an alleged unofficial spokesperson for the league said? Meh.

There is no big controversy. I just got annoyed by Duncan claiming I was telling mistruths. When he the media was too busy playing D for the IBL to do basic research. And on that... I have a legit point.

As for your points. If you don't have 25k you certainly shouldn't get into any league. Agreed. The difference is you don't give 25k to the WCBL.

On some IBL teams the pay is worse than lousy (they don't pay as we know). The way to make up for that is playing on the weekends. Some leagues have figured that out. They deserve credit for it.

You shouldn't be up in arms about the IBL. But we ought to at least evaluate them accurately. Overall the talent is down in the league. I know LA has some former NBA players but outside of that you don't see much of the Brandon Watkins or Jovan Harris that put the IBL on top talentwise. The WCBL had Jeff Trepagnier who has played overseas in the NBA and NBDL... and he's still in his prime.

The WBA has loads of talent and bad management.

The EBA has long term success but could use some better players

The UBL is the new kid on the block. Bad website but they play their games and talent just improved big time this year with Springfield and OKC joining the league.

The WCBL has better talent overall compared to the IBL. They pay their players better. They are just as well scouted and overall they are the better league. The website reports stats and scores but it is not as fancy as the IBL's.

The IBL was known as an inexpensive league in 2005. With regional teams operating successfully on less than 20k a year... the IBL is no longer the inexpensive league. The talent is down (although there are a few really nice players... including the Center with Los Angeles). The midwest is a mess. The IBL first tried to connect themselves with the NBA (back in 05/06). Then they tried to be international with international teams. That has not worked well at all outside of Canada. The asia expansion has failed. They even talked about doing it across the pond (the atlantic). Never happened.

The IBL is either going to evolve or slowly over the next few years go away. The IBL has gone through a lot (I've listed them all before) of teams in just a few short years (which isn't happening in the WCBL, EBA, UBL etc) because teams get in and figure out they can't meet the budget... so after one year they get out.

So no I don't think the IBL is evil and I don't hate it. But it has some pros and some cons. And I don't put it above the WCBL and some of the other leagues are doing things the IBL should be doing.

[turbocamyes]

A couple of things:

First, the WCPBL did a great job adjusting for Beijing dropping out.

Second, how do you know the UBL played all of their games? The website (at least two weeks ago) was not updated with scores and I gave up trying to track them down.

Lastly, just so no one jumps on me, I worked for the IBL this year handling the stats for the league (that's my ugly mug on the site.) I have no great insight into the league's operations; my role was updating rosters and stats. I still consider myself impartial and hope to post more now that the regular season is over.

The WCBL and UBL played all their games.

WCPBL games cancelled:

04/24/09 Pasadena Slam @ Newport Beach Surf
05/06/09 Orange County Gladiators @ Beijing Aoshen Olympian
05/06/09 Santa Barbara Breakers @ Hollywood Jammers
05/13/09 Orange County Gladiators @ Hollywood Jammers
05/14/09 Beijing Aoshen Olympian @ Newport Beach Surf
05/17/09 Beijing Aoshen Olympian @ Pasadena Slam
05/20/09 Newport Beach Surf @ Hollywood Jammers
05/21/09 Santa Barbara Breakers @ Newport Beach Surf
05/27/09 Pasadena Slam @ Hollywood Jammers
05/28/09 Orange County Gladiators @ Newport Beach Surf
05/31/09 Santa Barbara Breakers @ Ventura County Jets
06/03/09 Ventura County Jets @ Hollywood Jammers
06/04/09 Hollywood Jammers @ Newport Beach Surf

Games added

05/05/09 Orange County Gladiators @ Hollywood Jammers
05/12/09 Orange County Gladiators @ Hollywood Jammers
05/12/09 Santa Barbara Breakers @ Newport Beach Surf
05/19/09 Santa Barbara Breakers @ Hollywood Jammers
05/26/09 Pasadena Slam @ Hollywood Jammers
05/27/09 Orange County Gladiators @ Newport Beach Surf
06/02/09 Ventura County Jets @ Hollywood Jammers
06/03/09 Pasadena Slam @ Newport Beach Surf
06/07/09 Newport Beach Surf @ Santa Barbara Breakers
06/08/09 Hollywood Jammers @ Newport Beach Surf

Games rescheduled:

04/29/09 Beijing Aoshen Olympian @ Hollywood Jammers
05/09/09 Beijing Aoshen Olympian @ Orange County Gladiators
05/10/09 Beijing Aoshen Olympian @ Ventura County Jets
05/16/09 Beijing Aoshen Olympian @ Santa Barbara Breakers
05/31/09 Hollywood Jammers @ Pasadena Slam

[minorleagfan09]

A couple of things:

First, the WCPBL did a great job adjusting for Beijing dropping out.

Second, how do you know the UBL played all of their games?

Both the WCBL and the IBL seem to want to do the china thing. i don't get that. my main concern is that when a fan buys tickets (especially season tickets) that all home games are played and the fan gets his or her value out of the purchase.

as for the UBL... yea i've seen them live before. every game scheduled before the season has been scored and counted in the win/loss column.

the only scores that are missing are for the UBL finals which happened last saturday. they just need to be a little less lazy and post their scores faster. actually the UBL just needs a better website with better pictures and some video... and more stats. But that is another story.

[turbocamyes]

as for the UBL... yea i've seen them live before. every game scheduled before the season has been scored and counted in the win/loss column.

That's great, I'll head over to their site today.