Turfcats game rescheduled??

[trifecta]

Just checked the website to see the score and noticed the twitter column said that tonight's game has been rescheduled?????

Does anyone know what happened? Caballo, I know you will have an answer and a reason why this is just like any other league.

[indoor fan]

Just checked the website to see the score and noticed the twitter column said that tonight's game has been rescheduled?????

Does anyone know what happened? Caballo, I know you will have an answer and a reason why this is just like any other league.

The SIFL is now officially a semi pro bush league and needs to be removed from the OSC.

[exit322]

This won't even be on Paul's "Top 10" of screwed up things that have happened in leagues OSC covered...this year.

From what I understand, the Texas arena's perfectly safe, though incredibly small, and Austin's GM was too "big time" to allow his team to play there. Seems a very simple forfeit ruling to me.

[indoor fan]

This won't even be on Paul's "Top 10" of screwed up things that have happened in leagues OSC covered...this year.

From what I understand, the Texas arena's perfectly safe, though incredibly small, and Austin's GM was too "big time" to allow his team to play there. Seems a very simple forfeit ruling to me.

Simple??? There are only six teams in the league, I would think the Turfcats GM was aware of the "arena" the Pirates were playing in, well before the game. Hell, I think he is even from the Houston area.

[suge night]

Yes , this is a tough one for us pulling for this league from the outside.

Indoor Fan pulling them from the site may be a bit to harsh but I understand where you are coming from.

The league allowed the team to setup shop there and should have made this game happen, yes it may not be what Austin is used too. But in any league all things are not equal and the Austin brass already knew this.

With money tight and as long as the game wasn't in the parking lot without boards it should have been played ,this one will be hard to forget though most of us will have some understanding why.

In the future it may be better if we as fans of the game take on the minor league baseball concept of classes of leagues A AA AAA this would help accept some of the Apples to Apples approach of what we see.

I don't have the answer's and most of the posting on these sites don't as well it's all to easy to be Judge and Jury without taking on any of the risk these people who lay so much on the line do.

Hope all of you have good things happen for you..!

[trifecta]

Couple of interesting things:

The usually chalk full of info Turfcats Twitter column on Turfcats.com is silent about the issue. I could have sworn I saw a twitter message about a reschedule of the game and then nothing else...The original message was even deleted.....Now just a few sentences the NEXT DAY on a safety concern.


Nothing from Caballo (the Turfcats unofficial spokesman).

The Only League game on a Saturday night and it gets called because of Safety concerns? Really?

Are the Pirates now going to be EXPELLED????

[indoor fan]

Couple of interesting things:

The usually chalk full of info Turfcats Twitter column on Turfcats.com is silent about the issue. I could have sworn I saw a twitter message about a reschedule of the game and then nothing else...The original message was even deleted.....Now just a few sentences the NEXT DAY on a safety concern.


Nothing from Caballo (the Turfcats unofficial spokesman).

The Only League game on a Saturday night and it gets called because of Safety concerns? Really?

Are the Pirates now going to be EXPELLED????

Ceballo may be on suicide watch!

And to make things worse, the Turfcats have the TBA team coming into town this week. I wonder why they stopped posting attendance on their stats? Could be a lot of echos at Travis County this Saturday.

[kadamsbeat]

Covering a team and having some things to say about a great league, I was absolutely embarrassed that the front office allowed a "GM" to decide if the game would be played. The Bucs and Conquerors played on the same field with no issues. Why on earth would the Turfcats get to walk out of there and force the Pirates to reschedule? That is total BS! The Turfcats should have to forfeit I agree. What happened was the Turfcat "GM" wanted to embarrass a team that was already struggling. The Pirates did what they had to do to play that game Saturday night, and Austin just let an idiot decide they were not going to play. If these guys are trying to help the league be more secure, you cant allow such stupidity. PLAY THE FRICKING GAME ALREADY!

[trifecta]

After reading the release on the SIFL website I am even more amazed.

Weren't they DONE with Kicks Soccer after the Pirates LAST home game a few weeks ago?

Now Blum says they are DONE with Kicks as a venue. (Again?)
Hagar says they will be announcing great news for the Texas franchise soon.

Any league is only as good as it's weakest Franchise....The trouble with even a few unstable franchises is that they make the whole league look bad.

Let's go down HINDSIGHT LANE

Instead of RUSHING to put together a few teams so the Three or Four legit franchises had someone to play MAYBE it would have been better to hold off and wait for other legit frachises.

Legit Franchise is defined as- A team with experienced administration, a safe and certified venue, and ownership with enough money to make it through the first season.

You can only make ONE first impression and the calamity of errors each week is incredulous.

Come on folks....There are JUST 6 teams!!! With just ONE Saturday Night game you would think that ALL those involved at the League office could execute a Masterpiece.

The only one with a viable excuse is the newly named Director of Quality Control as it is his first week. Everyone else in the League office has no excuse....They knew about the Kicks venue challenges....issued statements after the last Pirates Home game that changes had to be made and then did not follow through.

[fred1965]

Trifecta and Indoor Football Fan just don't like the SIFL, but then again, the SIFL have given them a lot of ammunition the past three weeks.

I think these guys are going to be okay in the long run. If they can handle the past three weeks, they can handle anything.

[indoor fan]

Trifecta and Indoor Football Fan just don't like the SIFL, but then again, the SIFL have given them a lot of ammunition the past three weeks.

I think these guys are going to be okay in the long run. If they can handle the past three weeks, they can handle anything.

So it's our fault the SIFL has had forfeits, cancelled games, teams leaving games early, teams being kicked out of the league, shutouts/blowouts, teams without adequate arenas, and semi pro replacement teams all midway through the season with only a six team league?

[fred1965]

Didn't say it was your fault ... The two of you seemed focused on the SIFL when all the leagues area having their share of problems.

[El Gato Loco]

Oh, save it kadams. If the SIFL claims to be anything better than typical indoor football, and has standards and guidelines for the arenas that their teams play in, they need to actually ENFORCE those rules and penalize those teams that can't get their act together. Half-assing it is how otherwise good teams and leagues fail. And to say that Texas has been half-assing it is giving them too much credit.

What's worse is that the SIFL knew this was bad, and let it go on just because they didn't want another black mark on the league after last week. They put the status of the league ahead of player safety concerns. The league's own statement spells it out - "We've rolled the dice twice at Kicks and gotten lucky." LUCKY? Then you've got Hager's own comments - "This incident is the result of us not heeding our own counsel of settling for less than ideal situations for the sake of convenience. It’s on us."

Certainly sounds like the league knew better to me. Too bad it took until game time to figure that out instead of earlier in the week when it should have been done.

[fred1965]

They handled the Florida Kings mess and the first Pirates-Turfcats mess pretty good. Let's see how they salvage this one.

[trifecta]

Are league officials FULL TIME paid positions OR is this a second job for them?

Here is the BIG question....

It would seem to me that with such a small number of teams all within a few hours of each other it would make sense that ALL League officials would be in attendance at their ONLY Saturday Night game. Who was there?

I don't know which is worse.....

League officials in attendance at Kicks before the game OR

League officials NOT in attendance at Kicks before the game.


I could understand if travel constraits could prevent League officials from being at the Only game on Saturday night but with everything that has gone on in the last few weeks you would think it would be ALL HANDS ON DECK!

I am critical because it was the Austin GM that came to town touting how DIFFERENT the SIFL was going to be from the failed teams of the past. He was right about one thing.... It is different alright.

[Caballo Diablo]

Wow, guys I'm touched. Who woulda thunk you guys would miss me so much.
I'm getting all teary eyed, hold on whilst I grabs a tissue. Honkbfftwweehonk, ahh much better now.

I was under the inpression many of you felt I came here too often, posted too much, and was too long winded. But to my surprise here y'all are begging for more.

The wife and I have been together a long time, maybe even longer than some youngsters have been around. Her birthday is tomorrow so I planned a weekend. I sent the kids off to friends and decided to spend some quality time with the love of my life.

You guys that have been married awhile or have kids know how difficult it can be to get quality time alone. Sometimes we fall into a routine and don't let our loved ones know how important they are, so I took some action.

I really didn't think it would be a big deal, but hey, I missed all of you guys too. Come over here, GROUP HUG! - aHHHHMMMMPPPPFFFF, there, I feel better already. :D

[Caballo Diablo]

How did I know this thread would be here - lol, and what the various posters would have to say. Carnac would be proud.

So many things do address, how to address them? I could go through every single post, line by line, but Trifecta doesn't really like that approach. Maybe I should just address poster, by poster? Or maybe just an overview and let you respond first, decisions, decisions. There is one post I would like to address individually, but maybe I should leave that for the end, hmmm.

There do seem to be a few sensible guys here, which is pretty impressive.
Although they may ruin our reputation.

Indoor fan, I've seen you post other places, you seem knowledgable and typically don't go off the deep end with harsh off the wall stuff, but Wow!

Go to the main page and check out all of the sports and forums available, would you say all of them can be classified as top notch? Heck, even the ABA has detractors saying they're Bush league - lol

Why does the new team coming to Austin next week make anything worse? And worse than what? I'm confused on that one. Do you really think the team coming in would cause a significant shrinkage of attendance? The people that have been showing up are called fans, it's not like we had an arena full of passer by's that just stumbled in. They want to watch the sport and they want to see their team, I wouldn't expect a huge difference in numbers either way.

Hold on, I'm only allowed a certain number of characters per post - lol

[Caballo Diablo]

Indoor fan, you say, "From what I understand the Texas arena's perfectly safe", shows that you don't really know. Who was your source for this, if you don't mind me asking.

You go on to say, "I would think the Turfcats GM was aware of the arena the Pirates were playing in, well before the game," and yes, he had previously lived in the Houston area.

He has been a part of numerous teams, but none had ever played at Kick's so maybe he has never been in that facility. Is it the job of each teams GM to go inspect venues before their games? I have been in the building before, once when my daughters competition cheerleading team was in Houston for nationals they had rented the place for practice. I was amazed how small it is and in my opinion isn't suitable for youth soccer, let alone a professional football team.

What is it so far not counting me, 7 different posters in the thread? 3 are very negative while the other 4 seem to get it. They haven't homered up, but understand the circumstances of business in a poor economy, the history of the 50 yard game and it's leagues. All of their thoughts aren't positive, but on a perspective of reality.

[Caballo Diablo]

This brings me to my old friend Trifecta, I still can't get a handle on you.
I know, you've said from day one that you're a fan, and are willing to give them a chance. You've told us how tainted your view of the sport is because of the teams that have gone through the Austin area. I kept trying to believe you, you keep coming back for more.

I've been told the Twitter message was only up for less than 10 minutes, either you really do care and were anxiously awaiting kickoff or it was just dumb luck that you saw it. You keep coming back here, it would seem there can only be two reasons, you are a fan trying to follow along or a Troll.

You've always been negative, and I tried to believe that maybe you're just a pessimist by nature. But even those people occasionaly have something good to say. To say the least, you've got me baffled.

Let me be honest, I do know the facts. I have been debriefed by several people, so I got different perspectives of what actually happened, and what is embellishments running through the rumor mill. This is a very difficult situation for all involved and yes, the game not being played was disappointing. It may be a black eye on the league and the Turfcats, but it's not a knock out blow.

Oops, we've got to move to the next post........................

[Caballo Diablo]

Come on guys, you knew I was long winded before you started asking questions and hurling insults - lol

Can someone give me a definition of "Bush League"? I thought it originated from "Minor League", did any of you have the impression any 50 yard league was "Major." The AFL was the PREMIER 50 yard league no matter what the IFL PR office tells you, and thinking they were the 5th Major league is what brought them done.

Let's look at some history, the NFL in it's infancy had problems with teams and their owners, players, coaches, and yes even some venues. Some of you may even be old enough to remember a lockout. They finished the season with replacement players. So even the best, and clearly they are, have difficult situations to work through.

Does anyone remember the NHL's problems? I know, some of you don't consider them a "Major" League either - lol. Lord knows that MLB and the NBA has never struggled with any of these problems.

Trifecta will say these are excuses, nope, it's reality. Does it excuse the problems the SIFL has endured, no. The negative posters have been that way from the beginning, that means you expected problems, then why do you act surprised?

All of the successful people I know have gone through more than one failure, it's a fact of life. does that mean you give up when things become difficult?
Maybe it means you should never try, but then it's garunteed to not find success.

Did the league start a year too early, should they have waited until next season. I've wondered that myself. Hopefully the economy will be better, after all the sport runs on discretionary income. Would better teams have been in place with more time, probably. Would the Kings and Pirates be in better shape if they waited another year, probably. Ill-advised or not, I know the reasons for not waiting another year and understand why. I'd rather not go into those detaile either, it doesn't matter now.

Some like to throw out the name "IFL", that makes me chuckle. They've got their own concerns to deal with but the commish publically bashes the SIFL and af2, that's cute - lol. They've got some serious infighting, many still play the UIF vs Intense league BS instead of working to unite them into one entity.
Expect some big move come the off season.

[trifecta]

Caballo,

Thanks for your FBI-like profile debriefing.

I am a fan....Or at least want to be. Not that I feel the need to explain but I was on the website to check the first quarter score as I thought the game started at 6:30. Isnt that what time the Turfcats usually play???

You confirm that the message was only up for a few minutes(So I wasnt seeing things)...SMACK dab on the HOME PAGE of Turfcats.com....I am sorry that I saw the secret message.

Someone was obviously told to take the message down. In Oliver Stone like questioning I would ask the following:

1. Why was the message removed so quickly?
2. Who had the power to remove a message?
3. Who would benefit from removal of the message?

Do you have ANY questions for the League Office or are you perfectly satisfied that another game had to be rescheduled in an arena that had to reschedule a game just TWO WEEKS earlier? Definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

[Caballo Diablo]

I prefer not to discuss the details I know, I don't think I've got that right to publicize it and it's not my place. So let's go to the "Official" League statement. A safety issue.

I know some of you still don't believeit, but let's pretend it's true. Let's pretend their were some serious concerns. What would you do?

I have actually played in a football game where one of the players died, it's beyond words to explain. I have seen players that have broken their neck or back, I've seen players paralyzed. Yes, football is a very dangerous sport, some of the injuries were unpreventable, while others were because of small dumb things. Most of these guys played for big money, the 50 yard game is for $200 per game. How far should we stretch safety?

IF, a player gets seriously injured who is liable? The unsatisfactoy venue? What if they forced people to sign waivers? Would the waivers void or hamper the insurance held by the team or the league? It's tough getting good players when you pay pocket change, do you think it would help recruitment if they felt the teams or league didn't care about their safety?

If a serious injury happened could the player and/or their family sue? Who would they sue? Typically whoever's at the top with the most money. That would probably rule out an Indoor soccer closet and the team, they could fold and walk away. So now are we willing to put the future of the league at risk over a game? These decisions need to be thought over carefully, it's not worth it in my mind. I can take the negative comments about a struggleing business plan or rooting for a Bush League. I can't support a league or team that is willing to over look safety issues, intentionally disregarding the safety of the players is far worse than working through expansion glitches.

[trifecta]

Caballo,

The POINT just called and wanted to let you know that you MISSED IT!

The safety concerns are valid and No player should be placed in undo danger....Lord knows they have enough chance for injury without playing in dangerous environments.

Here are the REAL questions to ponder:

1. Why were the Pirates allowed to use the venue in the first place LET alone after there were problems after they played a game there.

(In other words.... where was the League Office?)

2. Why did the Turfcats travel to Houston only to find out that it was unsafe?

(In other words.... where was the League Office?)

3. With ONLY ONE game on Saturday Night how could this have happened?

(In other words...Where was the League Office?)


The question is not whether the game should be cancelled due to safety reasons the question is with all that has happened at this arene the question is....Say it with me now..........Where was the League Office?

[indoor fan]

Indoor fan, you say, "From what I understand the Texas arena's perfectly safe", shows that you don't really know. Who was your source for this, if you don't mind me asking.

You go on to say, "I would think the Turfcats GM was aware of the arena the Pirates were playing in, well before the game," and yes, he had previously lived in the Houston area.

He has been a part of numerous teams, but none had ever played at Kick's so maybe he has never been in that facility. Is it the job of each teams GM to go inspect venues before their games? I have been in the building before, once when my daughters competition cheerleading team was in Houston for nationals they had rented the place for practice. I was amazed how small it is and in my opinion isn't suitable for youth soccer, let alone a professional football team.

What is it so far not counting me, 7 different posters in the thread? 3 are very negative while the other 4 seem to get it. They haven't homered up, but understand the circumstances of business in a poor economy, the history of the 50 yard game and it's leagues. All of their thoughts aren't positive, but on a perspective of reality.

I never said the arena was safe. Please show me where I said this. The league knew it was an indoor soccer facility and not suitable for a "professional" indoor league. They already played one game there. Obviously someone dropped the ball. This should have been easily diagnosed with only a six team league.

This is my problem with the SIFL and the Turfcats in particular. They cam in with an elitist attitude and now that things have headed south, there is nothing but excuses. It starts from the top.

[Caballo Diablo]

Caballo,

Thanks for your FBI-like profile debriefing.

I am a fan....Or at least want to be. Not that I feel the need to explain but I was on the website to check the first quarter score as I thought the game started at 6:30. Isnt that what time the Turfcats usually play???

You confirm that the message was only up for a few minutes(So I wasnt seeing things)...SMACK dab on the HOME PAGE of Turfcats.com....I am sorry that I saw the secret message.

Someone was obviously told to take the message down. In Oliver Stone like questioning I would ask the following:

1. Why was the message removed so quickly?
2. Who had the power to remove a message?
3. Who would benefit from removal of the message?

Do you have ANY questions for the League Office or are you perfectly satisfied that another game had to be rescheduled in an arena that had to reschedule a game just TWO WEEKS earlier? Definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
Dang you for interupting my disertation, I'm just getting warmed up - lol
No, you don't need to explian anything, but we do come here for discussion.

Let's look at your questions:
1. Why was the message removed so quickly?
I'm not sure, I didn't ask, but I do know that meetings were ongoing.

2. Who had the power to remove a message?
I would assume the Turfcat owner or GM. The league office doesn't have access to take it down themselves but I would think they could be powerfully persuasive. I don't know who made the decision. Sometimes I just don't think to ask certain questions while chasing other info, and sometimes I don't want to know. Some answers and info can put me in a difficult situation.

3. Who would benefit from removal of the message?
I'm not really sure, we all know it would come out sooner or later and it's not like it was a bad message.

I don't think it would have been right to penalize the T-cats with a forfeit when they had no control over the venue. I would gladly take a forfeit over a serious injury though.

yes, I do have questions for the team and the league, and no I'm not satisfied with another game not being played. Luckily even though I'm just a fan the team and league office has accepted me into their world. I can ask tough questions and most of the time I get straight answers. I feel this also means I need to show some restraint in divulging details of certain situations.

Let's talk about the Kicks facilty. It was never meant for football, heck people still poke fun at other 50 yard leagues for short fields. This is more than a short field. The SIFL is trying to build itself around an inexpensive business plan, that is paramount, especially in these economic times. Venues are expensive, there aren't many cheap smaller venues downtown. I would think now they'll look more to the suburbs for an arena. How many inexpensive ones are in the Austin area? Many poke fun at the Expo Center, but over $20,000 per game at the Erwin center makes it unviable.

The Pirates two games were played at Kick's, the first was Houma. Come to find out they had a safety issue also, maybe they were accustomed to it?
The second was the Swashbucklers, if I need to explain why they needed to do what they needed to do we're on different wave lengths.
The last game was cancelled but it was only against the Kings, many just blew that off as a problem with the Kings. Thruth is they didn't want to play there either.

I understand why the Pirates were at Kicks, I understand why the league wanted to start this season, I understand why the league wanted all of the games played. Bottom line the league will have problems just like all of the other leagues. Even the established leagues are having some dificulties.
That doesn't mean I like it, but I'm not in a position to say I could have done a better job.

[Caballo Diablo]

I never said the arena was safe. Please show me where I said this.
My apologies on that one, trying to remember who said what as I respond in bunches is difficult - lol

It was Exit322 that said it in his post.


This is my problem with the SIFL and the Turfcats in particular. They cam in with an elitist attitude and now that things have headed south, there is nothing but excuses. It starts from the top.
Where and why did you get that opinion?
I feel the IFL has a far more elitist attitude than all of the other leagues combined. I've been in the mix of things since last october, long before they actually publically broke ground and never got that from them. they've always been inclusive. I've met Mr hager a couple of times and he was always friendly and humble with us.

There's a difference between reality and excuses. I admit there have been problems, but they've always faced them and worked towards resolution.
Starting a league on short notice did increase the pressure and tends to compound mistakes.

[Caballo Diablo]

Caballo,
The POINT just called and wanted to let you know that you MISSED IT!

The safety concerns are valid and No player should be placed in undo danger....Lord knows they have enough chance for injury without playing in dangerous environments.
Sorry, I had to take a phone call and missed the other incoming one - lol
I didn't miss the point, some were saying there wasn't a safety issue and I said let's pretend what if then. You and I agree, safety is a huge one that requires priotiy.

I've admitted some problems involved not only this week but prior.

Here are the REAL questions to ponder:

1. Why were the Pirates allowed to use the venue in the first place LET alone after there were problems after they played a game there.
(In other words.... where was the League Office?)
I can only offer my opinion. A 6 team league looks better than a 4 team league. They couldn't afford another facility. Remember, Kick's comes with turf already down for soccer, they didn't need to purchase turf, walls, pads, goal posts, etc. Hindsight is a great thing, we've all made decisions we regretted.


2. Why did the Turfcats travel to Houston only to find out that it was unsafe?
(In other words.... where was the League Office?)
because they're not the Kings, ok, that was a low blow.
They were scheduled to play in Houston and travel was the only way to get there? I've been around many teams and leagues, it's not common to scout the arenas and inspect them. Once they arrived they felt there were issues and discussed it with the league. league official were at the game, they weren't there a long time before kickoff as they weren't expecting major problems. They did go to the game and handled the situation as best as they thought possible.

3. With ONLY ONE game on Saturday Night how could this have happened?
(In other words...Where was the League Office?)
The number of games doesn't matter, I guess they could have flown the league staff in a day in advance but that's also uncommon.


The question is not whether the game should be cancelled due to safety reasons the question is with all that has happened at this arene the question is....Say it with me now..........Where was the League Office?
I agree with your hindsight. 2 games played and 2 games not.
The venue should have never been accepted as legit, circumstances led to poor decisions because there wasn't another venue within the budget. like I said previously, maybe they shouldn't have been allowed in the league.

We've said that for many teams in many leagues, there's a long history of other leagues dealing with the same problems. The Ft Wayne fans still have their heads spinning trying to figure out what happened over the years.
it's those fans coming here on their pedestal that seem the elitist.

[Caballo Diablo]

Sorry, but I just had another "Bush League" recall.

I remember Brian Billick, coach of the Baltimore Ravens, yanking his team from Vet Stadium against the Eagles in a preseason game about 6 years ago because there were literally holes in the Vet Stadium turf. Yes preseason, but this is the NFL! And there were quite a few paid Butts in the seats.

Hmm, I think I'll go soak my fingers now, there's smoke coming off of them - lol

[football head 4ever]

Hey CD - finally made my way over here!

Sorry to hear about Saturday night. Hope it all gets sorted out.

[preeths]

They handled the Florida Kings mess and the first Pirates-Turfcats mess pretty good. Let's see how they salvage this one.

The problem is they're having messes of this scale. The SIFL needs to play all its games and leave the drama behind, and it needs to start yesterday. At least two of the league's six franchises were nowhere near ready to play this season. Not good.

[kadamsbeat]

Why the message was taken down is because the Austin Turfcats announced that the game was canceled without the League even knowing about it, which they do not have the power to do. League officials were in route to the facility when the Twitter feed was posted showing that the super stars that are the Austin Turfcats pretty much decided that they are so much bigger than the league that they can cancel a football game. From my understanding the facility was not set up, and when the setup would have been completed it would have been safe, as it was in the first two ball games of the Pirates. The game officials and both coaches agreed they could play the game once the facility was completed so again, why did Ronald Oswalt have the power to trump, the game officials, both team coaches, and Hager who was on his way to the facility about what makes a facility safe or not?

[trifecta]

So Hagar was on his Way to the game and not there yet when I saw the message? I could have sworn it was around 6:15.

Were there ANY SIFL Executive Staff at the facility before Hagar arrived?

With ALL of the challenges that this League has faced (Especially at Kicks)This is the ultimate question that I don't quite understand.....

If this game was the only one on the SIFL schedule AND it was located within a few hours drive of ALL of the SIFL Executive Team then WHY weren't there any League representatives there?

AND, If there were League Representatives there then HOW could they have not gotten the field ready????

Forget about all other leagues and challenges of the NFL.... this is the question that nobody wants to address

[football head 4ever]

Why the message was taken down is because the Austin Turfcats announced that the game was canceled without the League even knowing about it, which they do not have the power to do. League officials were in route to the facility when the Twitter feed was posted showing that the super stars that are the Austin Turfcats pretty much decided that they are so much bigger than the league that they can cancel a football game. From my understanding the facility was not set up, and when the setup would have been completed it would have been safe, as it was in the first two ball games of the Pirates. The game officials and both coaches agreed they could play the game once the facility was completed so again, why did Ronald Oswalt have the power to trump, the game officials, both team coaches, and Hager who was on his way to the facility about what makes a facility safe or not?

Well, something caused Mr. Oswalt to notice the safety of his players would be in question and I applaud him on acting upon that. The safety of the players comes first before anything else. Apparently the league agreed and decided to postpone the game. What concerns me is that the Pirates didn't seem to care that much. If the league concluded that there were safety concerns, why would the Pirates just not care? Their own players could be hurt as well.

Better to go the safe route than to save face, even in a new league.

[football head 4ever]

AND, If there were League Representatives there then HOW could they have not gotten the field ready????



Excellent question. I'm wondering that myself.

[suge night]

The one question the league will have to look into , is did the move pretty much finish off the Houston team as a fan if you were going to attend this game what does the move leave you with as faith to attend another one.

That team was already in a tough market and to draw 900 would be considered a victory for them so playing at a small venue had some merit in that market, I don't know anything about what the safety issue was.

But we all know that Houston will not be a part of the SIFL next season no matter who goes into that market after last Saturday, and the other big thing that comes from this fallout is how tough will it be to get any team in the league for the 2010 season .

The truth of the matter also is Austin hurt themself's as well because their home fan base is not that solid either so each missed game will cause the media in that area to start looking the other way when it comes to the little coverage they were getting.

I just know that this is not going away easy or fast enough for the league, someone said in a post that the league has something positive for the Houston team ,well a bigger building with all of that extra overhead and now having to locate Turf and Boards won't end up with a positive effect in their pocket as I'm sure the team is bleeding deep RED INK with more games on the schedule.

[Caballo Diablo]

Covering a team and having some things to say about a great league, I was absolutely embarrassed that the front office allowed a "GM" to decide if the game would be played. The Bucs and Conquerors played on the same field with no issues. Why on earth would the Turfcats get to walk out of there and force the Pirates to reschedule? That is total BS! The Turfcats should have to forfeit I agree. What happened was the Turfcat "GM" wanted to embarrass a team that was already struggling. The Pirates did what they had to do to play that game Saturday night, and Austin just let an idiot decide they were not going to play. If these guys are trying to help the league be more secure, you cant allow such stupidity. PLAY THE FRICKING GAME ALREADY!

Here we go, this is the one I wanted to address individually.

Ken, since you are proud of covering a different team/league I would think you've got prior experience in decorum and expressing your views in a professional manner. Since you don't cover either of these teams how can you talk factual?

You're embarrassed a GM can make these decisions, are you serious. The GM of every team (he's alwso the VP of the team, the only higher person within the organization is the Owner) has a specific duty to protect the owner's investment and to protect the players and staff. He has every right to bring up safety concerns and refuse to play. The league holds the decision on whether it is a forfeit, cancelled, postponed, or what have you.

If one of my managers ignored safety issues and put my company or workers at risk he would be derilict of his contractual duties. Could it have been handled better, possibly with less emotion, that's possible.

You say the `Bucs and Conquerors played there, what does that have to do with anything? Like mom used to always say, if your friend jumped off a building would does that mean you would also? Do you know if there were identical circumstances? Plus, if you reacll the Florida Kings didn't want to play the previous game at the venue due to safety concerns. The Conquerors had safety issues at their own arena and were going to play a game without the walls being padded so I take them as a weak example.
The `Bucs are the number one franchise in the league for several reasons, since you follow the sport I wouldn't think I need to list or explain them. Their owner felt it was paramount to play the game, and once again, were the circumstances identical? Do you know the facts surrounding the insurance and waivers involved from the owner/management of the venue?
I'll bet there's lots of details the forum posters are unaware of.

Like I've previously stated, I would prefer to accept a forfeit that risk a seriuos injury to a player. This could be life changing, not small stuff. A serious injury could expose both teams and the league to business ending litagation, because the venue refused to accept any responsibility and wanted it in writing. Would fans and players be lost if the league brushed aside these concerns to appease a few radical writers and someone got paralyzed? How about future investors or owners?

In the grand scheme it's better to accept a black eye than risk lives and everything your business stands for. We all knew year one would be tough, most business has a 5 year plan to estabish itself. An injury like this could end it all in the first year.

it's pretty arrogant of you to accuse the GM of doing it for the embarrassment of the other team. It's an uneducated childish attact that's untrue. If it was all about embarrassment they would have played the game and spanked them on the field. This was far more important that bad PR, maybe you would like to suit up and play under those conditions and have a 300 lineman drive you into a vending machine. Or be a WR going up for a misplaced pass into the metal colums or into the broken section of glass. maybe you would like to play with 3 yd end zones with open soccer goals and netting to get hung up in. It goes far deeper than this and you should settle down and get all of the facts before trying to force others to play under these conditions.

Here you calling the GM an idiot, nice job, it really helps your credibility. None of the GM's are idiot's you might not agree with their decisions but they are all intelligent and qualified for the job. A serious injury due to lack of concern would be far more dmaging to the teams and the league. If the game had gone on and a serious injury had happened I'll bet you would be posting the same drivel about the idiots that let it happens. No matter what you do some will always play the fool on the forums.

Let's go back to your first sentence, who do you cover? is it a SIFL team or different league? If it's the SIFL I think you are doing them a great diservice with your attitude and lack of knowledge of the what has gone on. If it's another league, please share with me about their perfect record of greatness and problem free business transactions.

Over the last 25 years I have ran several companies and owned a few. I have never seen a business that didn't experience difficult situations. The truth to their reputation comes from how they deal with them. You don't throw caution to wind and put everything at risk to put on a false front that's everything is fine to quiet the haters or competition.

Just my opinion.

[Caballo Diablo]

The one question the league will have to look into , is did the move pretty much finish off the Houston team as a fan if you were going to attend this game what does the move leave you with as faith to attend another one.
I don't think so, I expect the Pirates to rebound as a much stronger franchise.
Houston is a tough market for the 50 yard game, many teams have come and gone, same as Austin. Most don't know the actual occupency number allocated to the facility by the fire inspector, I do. Their were't too many butts in seats to disenfranchise.


That team was already in a tough market and to draw 900 would be considered a victory for them so playing at a small venue had some merit in that market, I don't know anything about what the safety issue was.

I just know that this is not going away easy or fast enough for the league, someone said in a post that the league has something positive for the Houston team ,well a bigger building with all of that extra overhead and now having to locate Turf and Boards won't end up with a positive effect in their pocket as I'm sure the team is bleeding deep RED INK with more games on the schedule
Yes, the venue did have some merit once you consider finances. It was inexpensive and you didn't have to purchase the turf, wall, pads, etc. this did help investors get started. But in the end was it really worth it? Only time will tell.
But we all know that Houston will not be a part of the SIFL next season no matter who goes into that market after last Saturday, and the other big thing that comes from this fallout is how tough will it be to get any team in the league for the 2010 season .

The truth of the matter also is Austin hurt themself's as well because their home fan base is not that solid either so each missed game will cause the media in that area to start looking the other way when it comes to the little coverage they were getting.


I understand why you feel that way, but look for some positve news for the Pirates over the next week. I do expect them to complete the season and be back next season.

I know some details of what's going on behind the scenes, and the league office has been working hard to resolve any and all problems. the people on the forums might not be happy with some things but believe me they are serious about the concerns and want to make corrections, not sweep them under the rug.

Hopefully years from now we can still be enjoying their games and reminicing over the early struggles. that's far better than doing it half-@$$ed for window dressing and have it destroy you quicker than you can say NIFL.

There are major positives that have happened in the past few days and hopefully it'll be public knowledge soon. It is very good news and will only strengthen the league as a whole.

[trifecta]

Caballo,

Good news coming??? This is the same song second verse that we have heard from the SIFL these last few weeks. On May 14th we heard the same thing...Good news about the Pirates is coming around the mountain.

I believe you even made one of your FAMOUS....."I could tell you but I can't".....references. You seem to always be willing to let us ALL know you know more than the rest of us YET you can't share the info because you do not want to risk your status.


Come on.....Enough already....Call it what it is....the League's leadership is painfully in over their heads.

[Independent]

With every thing going on in the world today, hell I'm just happy to be able to play (coach) football.

[trifecta]

My comments have NEVER involved the Coaches or Players on the field. I respect any player and coach who is out there for basically the love of the game.

The players Play, The Coaches Coach, and the fans cheer.......It is a four legged chair and unfortunately the fourth leg of the chair (Management) is broken.

[Caballo Diablo]

Caballo,

Good news coming??? This is the same song second verse that we have heard from the SIFL these last few weeks. On May 14th we heard the same thing...Good news about the Pirates is coming around the mountain.
I, glad I could sing another bar for you. this came from me and my opinion is it's good news, you may feel otherwise.

I believe you even made one of your FAMOUS....."I could tell you but I can't".....references. You seem to always be willing to let us ALL know you know more than the rest of us YET you can't share the info because you do not want to risk your status.
Well shucks, I don't know about all of that famous stuff. Many would say it's infamous. Yep, I've made similar statements. There's a reason I was privy to insider stuff in the AFL and af2, one reason is I don't leak stuff I shouldn't or name sources. I love the game and made a concerted effort to put myself in a position to find out things. It's a priviledge, and my opinion is it would be wrong to bite the hands that feed me. Once again, you have the right to feel otherwise.

What exactly is my status? A friend of some and supporter of others? I've been fortunate enough to be accepted into the Turfcat and SIFL family and I appreciate it. maybe I'm only the Red Headed step child, but family none the less - lol. Burning bridges or placing a sharp object in peoples back is just bad form, peter.


Come on.....Enough already....Call it what it is....the League's leadership is painfully in over their heads.
Call it what it is, ok, but once again their are differing opinions. Have mistakes and poor decisions been made by team and league front offices? Sure, didn't you guys preach to us from day one there would be?

You seem to brush off the fact it happens in every league and every business.
If you feel they have been too severe to garner your support, fine. If that's the case I personnaly would move on to something more enjoyablr instead of hanging out waitng for a train wreck. Taking pleasure in others misfortune is'n one of my hobbies.

I've asked people a few times to offer some constructive criticism instead of bashing. What would others think are better resolutions> What would we do if we were in charge. I'm not dumb enough to tell you they're perfect, but who is.

[trifecta]

Caballo,

You are right about one thing I need to move on. I have said about as much as I can and I will leave the SIFL message boards once and for all.

You are an immovable force and a worthy debater. You never take your rose colored glasses off the home team and there is much to be said about your faithfulness.

I on the otherhand was a little miffed from the start with the league, all of the Grandiose claims and predictions by the Turfcats GM and League officials were hard to digest. Before you can claim that you will succeed where others have failed you should at least play a game.....OR AT LEAST CANCEL ONE.

The SIFL has fallen and I will no longer pile on with my criticism.

To be clear...I was not always negative...As a matter of fact...I believe I was the first to congratulate the team on their Swashbucklers win.

You ask what I would do differently? How about be a tad more humble in the roll out and make the players and coaches the story NOT all the mismanagement issues.

Good Luck to the Coaches and Players.....Good Luck to the fans.....


I will no longer post anything about the Turfcats or the SIFL.....

You win Caballo

Trifecta is OUT

[mwhite212]

And then there were none . . .

LOL. Since you are apparently the official leader of the SIFL Glee club, CD, you may want to work on not alienating the potential fan base. Because it ain't gettin' any bigger, buddy. But in all seriousenss, I do not think this league will return next year. I can't help but shake the feeling that only the Turfcats and 'Bucs were invited to the meetings with all the miscommunications that have happened.

And what would I have done had I been running things?....wait until 2010 when all six teams were actually ready to play with venues set. Possibly playing a 4 game exhibition season with 4 teams on 4 different weekends to let coaches, players, and staff get used to the game. I would have given away ALL tickets to these games. I would have made sure those 4 games would have been spaced two weeks apart to give extra time to get your ducks in a row and spread the word. As it is now, there are only two contender teams. In a league with only 6 teams, it was that much more important to know that they would all be competitive with one another. This isn't some kind of "hindsight is 20/20" criticism. There were many other failed leagues to learn from. Many of these issues were VERY basic and showed a complete lack of teams' management toward understanding the material, talent, and marketing requirements of the game.

And finally...as the owner of the 'Bucs I wouldn't have started a new league in the first place. Though it was a neat idea, I just would have joined the AF2which is a 10 year old league with a reasonable degree of professionalism, an established track record, and a system to "televise" games through the internet. Though like all minor leagues...the officiating is sub-par. And perhaps he just didn't think he could afford to do it. I'm of course not privy to the financials.

[Caballo Diablo]

You are right about one thing I need to move on. I have said about as much as I can and I will leave the SIFL message boards once and for all.

You are an immovable force and a worthy debater. You never take your rose colored glasses off the home team and there is much to be said about your faithfulness.
I feel that's the wrong approach also. We both have experienced the same thing here in Austin. We enjoy the sport and had followed the previous teams, when they left it was difficult. You took that and became skeptical and wanted to wait and see what happened before committing to supporting them.

I on the other hand took a different view on the situation. I love the sport, and since experiencing the teams leaving in the past was tickled when the Turfcats came to town. When there's a possibility of something you like not being around for long you enjoy it while you can. It's inexpensive and the family will look for entertainment somewhere so it was a good choice for us.

If they are here for only 1 or 2 years I would much prefer to enjoy it up close and in person than sit home waiting for their departure. What have I got to lose by enjoying them this season? I refuse to sit home and ignore things I enjoy because they may not last forever, that's all the more reason to go now. If more people felt that way their chances for survival increase.

I'm not wearing rose colored glasses. I don't push them as the best team/league since the pigskin was invented. I don't push that they're perfect or better than any other league. I support them because they play in Austin and it's cheap and easy to. Sure, after being around for awhile I have got to know the people as individuals and have made some friends.

I'm not you typical fan, I helped lay turf, I've gone to many practices, I work at being around the sport I love to watch. My wife complains because there are helmets, football, pictures, jerseys, etc. everywhere around the house. She keeps telling me not to bring that crap home anymore. Then she'll get me another piece of memorabilia herself- lol, God I love that woman - haha.

I haven't been hoodwinked, I'm doing what I enjoy no matter what the PR release says or doesn't say. Some guys play poker every week, and lose most of the time, but they still go back. Golf, hunting, fishing, huge hobbies that can take lots of money and time and they don't always work out so well.
I don't really understand the love of those things and think it's a waste of time. To each their own.
My family enjoys the tailgates and and other fans. we enjoy hanging out and talking with the players and staff.

I on the otherhand was a little miffed from the start with the league, all of the Grandiose claims and predictions by the Turfcats GM and League officials were hard to digest. Before you can claim that you will succeed where others have failed you should at least play a game.....OR AT LEAST CANCEL ONE.

The SIFL has fallen and I will no longer pile on with my criticism.

To be clear...I was not always negative...As a matter of fact...I believe I was the first to congratulate the team on their Swashbucklers win.

You ask what I would do differently? How about be a tad more humble in the roll out and make the players and coaches the story NOT all the mismanagement issues.

Good Luck to the Coaches and Players.....Good Luck to the fans.....


I will no longer post anything about the Turfcats or the SIFL.....
I don't understand that either. One of the largest criticisms from many is the lack of PR, but that is most minor leagues and most locations. When they do promote, people get upset because they talk too positive? You admit to being skeptical because other teams have failed, so addressing that and saying confidently the T-Cats will be different and succeed bothers you?

The management does this as a full time gig while players and coaches have real jobs and many times have difficulty making enough time for practice and game weekends, that's a big reason they weren't followed around for that TV spot. Players and coaches do lots of interviews and the team has lots of articles, pictures, etc sent to the media and available for interested parties. If you don't like what was or wasn't shown look to the media outlets for criticism. they have all of the info and refuse to publish it.

Yes, the SIFL has stumbled, but will get back up.
Giving up is not an option, it's far to early in the business plan for that.
The AFL wasn't built in one season but did make it over 20 years before cancelling this season. I've got faith things will improve, if not life goes on and I'm thankful for the time I got to be a part of the 50 yard game and look for another team to root for.

You win Caballo

I didn't win anything, it's not a contest. Just discussing things we supposedly enjoy. Sometimes I'm right and sometimes you're right, I don't keep score. Who's going to talk to me if you leave? lol - you know where we'll be if you miss it, and I still think you should come and see me at a game. heck, it's worth the price of admission just to watch me yell at the officials and taunt the opposing team - hahaha

[Caballo Diablo]

And then there were none . . .
And what am I,chopped liver? - haha

LOL. Since you are apparently the official leader of the SIFL Glee club, CD, you may want to work on not alienating the potential fan base. Because it ain't gettin' any bigger, buddy. But in all seriousenss, I do not think this league will return next year. I can't help but shake the feeling that only the Turfcats and 'Bucs were invited to the meetings with all the miscommunications that have happened.
I didn't even realize we had a glee club, that just doesn't sound right - GLEE?

Who have I alienated? Not Trifecta, he doesn't make his decisions based on my opinions. And his opinions about the TurfCats and SIFL aren't based on what I say here. We often disagree but have adult conversations, we don't sneak up and smack each other with 2x4's.

Plus, by looking around the forum it seems most aren't fans, they're actually affiliated with a team or league. The fan traffic is minimal, but if my supporting the team/league irritates them that's confusing also.

I think they'll be back next year. Just because people are invited and even attend meetings doesn't mean they'll act properly afterwards. maybe those are the only ones that took it serious? I thnk Acadiana is dooing a good job also.


And what would I have done had I been running things?....wait until 2010 when all six teams were actually ready to play with venues set.
I agree, this would have been a more stable and practical thing to do. There are some reasons for not waiting until next season, whether it was worth it or not I can't tell yet.

If they had waited for next year the league would have been much larger than 6 teams. There are approx 10 to 12 investor groups that have done prliminary work to aply for franchises for the 2010 season. many would even be surprised at the exisitng teams in various leagues that have enquired about franchise information. Sure, that doesn't mean much, but checking it out is a more positve sign than no one being interested.

Possibly playing a 4 game exhibition season with 4 teams on 4 different weekends to let coaches, players, and staff get used to the game. I would have given away ALL tickets to these games. I would have made sure those 4 games would have been spaced two weeks apart to give extra time to get your ducks in a row and spread the word.
There is some merit to this plan, but the problem is who would pay for it?
It would seem sponsor/advertising dollars would be drastically smaller with only a couple of exhibition games, and zero dollars in ticket sales.
Since the swashbucklers were an existing team they proably could have sold tickets.

Iv'e seen the AFL and af2 give tons of tickets away for free never to be used.
Scalpers would be infront of the arena trying to sell the free tickets the team gave away to groups.


As it is now, there are only two contender teams.
Don't forget acadiana, they beat Austin, and Austin beat the `Bucs.
The Kings were never expected to be a contender this season. The Pirates have played some close games and are better than their record on the field.
Their off the field problems are being worked on as we type. Houma isn't terrible, but the 0-5 stands out pretty loud.


In a league with only 6 teams, it was that much more important to know that they would all be competitive with one another. This isn't some kind of "hindsight is 20/20" criticism. There were many other failed leagues to learn from. Many of these issues were VERY basic and showed a complete lack of teams' management toward understanding the material, talent, and marketing requirements of the game.
Everyone was concerned about the `Bucs, back to back champs and on a 20 game win streak. Have you seen the CIFL? The Slaughter with half the roster being AFL guys is embarrassing the league.

So half the league is ok and half are weak, we're only talking 6 teams.
If they get up to a dozen teams and only 2 or 3 can compete it can lose interest fast.


And finally...as the owner of the 'Bucs I wouldn't have started a new league in the first place. Though it was a neat idea, I just would have joined the AF2which is a 10 year old league with a reasonable degree of professionalism, an established track record, and a system to "televise" games through the internet. Though like all minor leagues...the officiating is sub-par. And perhaps he just didn't think he could afford to do it. I'm of course not privy to the financials.
A lot of people always speculate abut teams moving to the af2, while I do enjoy their games, it's expensive. I don't know the budget for the various Indoor leagues, but in 2008 the af2 Wranglers budget was around $1.5 million.

The af2 also restricts arenas specs and forces you into a more expensive venue. They've got better over the last couple of years on scheduling to curtail teavel expense but some of those trips are pretty far for a bus league.

They've got 27 teams, a few great ones, a handfull of weaklings that can't compete, but most fall in the middle of the road against the competition.

the SIFl was created with a very inexpensive business plan as far as the 50 yard game goes. It's tough to start a league anytime, but with the economy it had to be reduced. This in itself causes some of the problems we've seen.

[trifecta]

Best of luck to you CD....It was never personal


Interestingly enough I received a PM from DAYTONADAN last night 27 minutes after my farewell post.

Suffice to say he asked me to not question the Leagues Executive Teams experience as he has won numerous awards for his past body of work...Yes and Warren Beaty appeared in a great movie "Heaven Can Wait" and also was involved with the worst movie of All Time...."Ishtar"


The decision to no longer offer criticism of the SIFL and the T-Cats had Absolutely NOTHING to do with Daytonadan's request.

[mwhite212]

Look, I certainly would like to see the SIFL succeed. I think it was a good idea to have a regional sport with low overhead that was accessible to smaller communities. Believe me, I'd rather pay my money to a league or team that is deeply involved in the community than throw it at the virtual monopoly, the NFL, that would just as soon move your team to a new city as look at you if they thought they could get a larger market share.

But it seems the real questions are, "What is the right sized venue and what can you reasonably expect attendance to be?" To me, all other issues flow from these first two. It seems that the reasonable numbers are somewhere between 800 and 2000 in attendance....at least for the time being. But I gotta imagine with say 1,000 to 1,200, a full sized sports arena would look pretty bare. Maybe this is the wrong angle to approach. Maybe the venues need to be smaller, and regions tightened to reduce lodging costs.

And as far as the 'Bucs go, I just don't think it was terribly fair to the other teams to be pitted against such a seasoned opponent. And there is clearly a disparity among the financial standings of these different teams. I'm not sure what the salary caps and all that are, but I think it's pretty apparent that teams like Houma and Acadiana were recruiting strictly local talent. And perhaps out of benefit of having been in an established league, the 'Bucs had access to more professional players from a broader area. Don't get me started on Austin . . . everyone knows Texas is a recruiting powerhous. You guys eat and breathe football. High School players alone would have given you guys a pretty deep talent pool. It is because of this fact, that I think Austin was able to compete effectively against Lake Charles. Not begrudging you by the way....but I think it did have an impact.

[daytonadan]

I love it.

I've been called a murderer and a racist during my time in this sport, now I'm being compared to one of the greatest actors in Hollywood. I am moving up.

BTW, Warren Beaty's best work was either Bonnie and Clyde or Reds. You could make a compelling argument for Bugsy or Bulworth, also.

[phydeaux72]

BTW, Warren Beaty's best work was either Bonnie and Clyde or Reds. You could make a compelling argument for Bugsy or Bulworth, also.

What? You guys didn't like Shampoo?

[daytonadan]

LOL.

I actually thought Dick Tracy was a noble try that simply didn't hit the mark.

Still even movies that miss the mark or are considered failures can be beneficial, would you not agree, good Phydeaux?

[phydeaux72]

LOL.

I actually thought Dick Tracy was a noble try that simply didn't hit the mark.

Still even movies that miss the mark or are considered failures can be beneficial, would you not agree, good Phydeaux?

I whole-heartedly agree. I mean, look at Plan 9 from Outer Space.

[Caballo Diablo]

Best of luck to you CD....It was never personal.

Same to ya, once we get established I expect you to come join me at the Expo center. Butting heads doesn't mean it's personal, I love my wife to death but as in all marriages sometimes the headbutting get's intense.

I try to keep it down though because she does own a frying pan - lol

[daytonadan]

I whole-heartedly agree. I mean, look at Plan 9 from Outer Space.

Seriously. If it hadn't been for Plan 9 from Outer Space, we never would have Johnny Depp or Martin Landau's excellent performances in Ed Wood....

[Caballo Diablo]

Look, I certainly would like to see the SIFL succeed. I think it was a good idea to have a regional sport with low overhead that was accessible to smaller communities. Believe me, I'd rather pay my money to a league or team that is deeply involved in the community than throw it at the virtual monopoly, the NFL, that would just as soon move your team to a new city as look at you if they thought they could get a larger market share.
Amen, I still follow the NFL but as as close as I used to. I was one of the original founders of the Texas capital Area browns backers Association many years ago. I'm glad Cleveland got an expansion team and still root for them, but it's just not the same as it was before they moved to Baltimore. My wif's family is from baltimore and still sore about the Colts snaeking out of town in the middle of the night.

It's been a very long time since the NFL really cared about the players or the fans. It's all about TV money, advertising money, and blackmailing the tax payers to build another palace.

But it seems the real questions are, "What is the right sized venue and what can you reasonably expect attendance to be?" To me, all other issues flow from these first two. It seems that the reasonable numbers are somewhere between 800 and 2000 in attendance....at least for the time being. But I gotta imagine with say 1,000 to 1,200, a full sized sports arena would look pretty bare. Maybe this is the wrong angle to approach. Maybe the venues need to be smaller, and regions tightened to reduce lodging costs.
This is one of the big challenges, most venues small enough to equal the crowd size aren't large enough for the field. The Expo center seats somewhere around 7 to 8,000 depending on the configuration and 1,500 fans does look weak. Plus to get an inexpensive venue you need to use an older one. We've a got a new one here in the Austin area opening up in Oct. 09 but I doubt the SIFL could afford to play there.

The Wranglers played in a 15,000 seat arena and even 8 to 10,000 didn't look good. Then when they moved to the af2 and only brought in 3 to 4,000 there was an echo in the place - lol - and it cost over $20,000 per game to rent.

The regional thing is big to keep travel costs down, I don't like playing the same team 4 times but understand it. Even the af2 has gone to some teams scheduled that way.

And as far as the 'Bucs go, I just don't think it was terribly fair to the other teams to be pitted against such a seasoned opponent. And there is clearly a disparity among the financial standings of these different teams. I'm not sure what the salary caps and all that are, but I think it's pretty apparent that teams like Houma and Acadiana were recruiting strictly local talent. And perhaps out of benefit of having been in an established league, the 'Bucs had access to more professional players from a broader area. Don't get me started on Austin . . . everyone knows Texas is a recruiting powerhous. You guys eat and breathe football. High School players alone would have given you guys a pretty deep talent pool. It is because of this fact, that I think Austin was able to compete effectively against Lake Charles. Not begrudging you by the way....but I think it did have an impact.
Once again, I wasn't happy about it but understand. I felt if some teams could just hang tough with the `Bucs it wouild be a good year. It was Bedlam when Austin beat them, but next week when we travel to lake Charles their crowd will be pumped and the team will be looking for undisputable revenge.

Austin benefitted from the Barracudas folding, they were about an hour north of Austin. We got the coach and a couple of players because they already lived in the area. We also got a guy from the af2 Wranglers and he has definitely made a difference. But a league of expansion teams versus a back to back champ doesn't seem fair, does it - lol

In the end the `Bucs losing was good for the league as a whole, if they just trounced everyone the fan base would dwindle.


Even though the SIFL has an inexpensive business plan compared to other leagues there's still the same problem as other leagues. If you've got an ownership group with money and willing to spend it, two franchises can be continents apart. the disparity can be too much to overcome by the owner that is forced to run his franchise on the cheap.

Every league has rumors and acusations over paying people under the table, it does happen but there are so many other ways to recruit/compensate players, some leagal, some not. Housing is huge, especially if you want players outside of the local area. meals are another one. Some teams have sponsors or restaurants supply freebies or discounts. Some people have apartment connections to put the players in.

Employment, these guys need real jobs and some owners have enough companies or friends to get them jobs. transportation can be a problem. We had a guy coming up from san Antonio and his vehicle died, he couldn't afford to fix it or Move to Austin. So he signed with Souix City because they supply housing. there are so many ways to ease a players financial needs and the little owners will never be able to compete with the big guys.

[agqkindaguy]

This league never ceases to amaze me. Get it together or get out of the business SIFL!

[Caballo Diablo]

Posters never cease to amaze me.
Buy a clue or spin the wheel again before you lose a turn.

just a question, is the g in gq for goober?
Why would someone promote that they think they're a pretty boy?

[mwhite212]

"This is one of the big challenges, most venues small enough to equal the crowd size aren't large enough for the field. "

I suppose that is the rub isn't it? I know the IIFA plays some games in a HS gym...HEB I think. And then you've got the problem of image as well. I know the semi-pro football teams just play at HS fields. It's tough to get a handle on. I run a game convention here in Plano, and we have the same issues. Getting a space large enough to allow for unexpected foot traffic but at the same time not wanting it to swallow a smaller crowd.

[daytonadan]

MWhite

What at about that place in Plano where they have Ticketstock?

[mwhite212]

That's the Plano Convention Centre. That's where I have my gaming convention 3 times a year. Are you saying to use that for football or were you just suggesting for the con? It's a very nice facility and the do have some really large rooms. I think you actually could get a 50 yard field in one of them.

[daytonadan]

For the cons. Ticketstock was amazing.

Dr Pepper Star Center in Frisco is the perfect place to play indoor football.

[football head 4ever]

This league never ceases to amaze me. Get it together or get out of the business SIFL!

So which team cut you before the season started?

Maybe it's not perfect, but the league is trying to make the best of out these screwy situations. And it gives the players a chance to earn some money playing a sport they love. Small leagues like this are awesome.

If you don't like it, don't pay attention to it and go away. Find something better to do with your time instead of acting like a troll.

[mwhite212]

For the cons. Ticketstock was amazing.

Dr Pepper Star Center in Frisco is the perfect place to play indoor football.


Yes...I always seem to be walking in there to sign my contracts when Ticketstock is going on! It's pretty cool. I agree.

The Star Center is where the Frisco Thunder played with the IFL. I'm REALLY hoping Frisco or Plano gets an SIFL team soon. I have yet to actually go to an SIFL game. Gonna try to catch a Mudbugs game when I head to New Orleans the weekend of the 26th.

[mwhite212]

I agree, football head. I love minor leagues myself. Of course the talent level isn't the same as the NFL, but these guys play hard and they love the sport.

[daytonadan]

Yes...I always seem to be walking in there to sign my contracts when Ticketstock is going on! It's pretty cool. I agree.

The Star Center is where the Frisco Thunder played with the IFL. I'm REALLY hoping Frisco or Plano gets an SIFL team soon. I have yet to actually go to an SIFL game. Gonna try to catch a Mudbugs game when I head to New Orleans the weekend of the 26th.

I'd go back to Frisco in a heartbeat if not for my stepchildren and stepgrandson.

Frisco's an amazing town. I also enjoyed my stay in McKinney.

[Caballo Diablo]

I agree, football head. I love minor leagues myself. Of course the talent level isn't the same as the NFL, but these guys play hard and they love the sport.

DITTO !

These are LOCAL people that actually care about the community and the fans. The Major leagues haven't cared about the individual fans for so many years it's insulting. My entire family has a lot more fun at these games than at an NFL or even college game.

People trying to puff out their chest and compare leagues apparently are lost on the differing business plans and markets. They always try to compare the AFL to the NFL. The national leagues to the regional leagues. Can we compare Walmart to your local grocery store chain? The local chain to the mom & pop corner store?

Enjoy it or move on, the 50 yard game is a niche sport. Then it's broke down into different styles and business plans. 7 man, 8 man, differing rules, different financial systems. I know it's difficult for these self appointed experts to understand. It's sad when your hobby and time are spent attacting when it would be much smarter to find something you enjoy or agree with to spend your time on.

[mwhite212]

You said it, DC. And a very good analogy. To expand on it...if you go to some big chain store and probably get a better price and possibly a larger selection. But the cashier won't know your name...the manager probably won't special order a product for you...and you will certainly not get the same appreciation.

I of course want to see the SIFL be the best that it can (which is why I voice my concerns) but why do haters have to come in and make fun of the sport just because it has a smaller audience. I think most fans don't delude themselves into thinking it's bigger than it is. I like the fact that these are players that you will see in your neighborhood or who's kids may go to school with yours. And I think regional leagues like this create a greater sense of community than national sports.

[kadamsbeat]

but why do haters have to come in and make fun of the sport just because it has a smaller audience.

Because they have never touched a girl. :) jk

[MUDBUG1]

We must accept GQ's criticism because he is a member of our armed services and is currently fighting for our freedoms, one of which is speech.
So thank you GQ for your service on this D-Day anniversary. But we do ask you, GQ to be more specific, how would you see us do better.

[Caballo Diablo]

I disagree.
While I am very thankful for his service and respect his patriotism it has nothing to do with opinion of the SIFL or it's teams.

I'm a veteran myself, that doesn't mean I'm always right or expect people to agree with me. Every single male in my family has served in the Armed forces for as many generations back that I'm aware of. My brother also fought in Iraq during Desert Storm.

[Caballo Diablo]

Let's re-examine two posts.
What do they have to do with his service for his country?
He calls the SIFL a joke, while he's entitled to that opinion and has the right to voice it, it doesn't make it correct or mean that we have to accept it.

He says he does follow Arena Football and the AFL has NEVER had a "travel only" team, he was proven wrong. He says he follows Arena Football and Fourcade is "swell guy - eye roll". As he attempts a smack at one of the SIFL coaches it seems he's confused over the difference of "Arena Football" and "Indoor Football."

Once again, Thanks for your service, but it doesn't have anything to do with his posts or incorrect assumptions.

Your league reminds me of a friggin' circus show playing at fairgrounds, juggling teams, walking off playgrounds and taking your circus show on the road LOL! You mind as well merge with the IFL cause your league is goin' to go broke oh that's right you guys can't even afford to get into the league or pay the insurance to cover player injuries. What league has a team that plays no home games and only plays on the road? Were they a rock band? LOL! That's right their tour got axed! Your league is a joke and not worthy of any news coverage.....:mrgreen:

Sorry this isn't Tommy! And yeah the AFL might of had problems but they never had a travel only team LOL neither does the IFL! Yeah the IFL might of had one issue with a team in it's league over insurance but it was corrected but since you know everything about the SIFL maybe you should post the proof of insurance for each of the teams including that homeless Flordia team LOL in your league. As far as the IFL is concern at least they finish their games and don't walk off the field cause their PMSing LOL! As far as the Swashbucklers their a great team but maybe they didn't have the money to keep their team financially afloat as well as continue their great success in the IFL who knows maybe they will dominate your league for the next 90 years. You did one great thing getting rid of that Flordia team the league scoring will be down now and players will stop using taxi's to get to those road games LOL. BTW I do follow Arena Football that Fourcade guy he's a swell guy!:rolleyes:

[douglas mccarthy]

your back havent seen ya in awhile

[Caballo Diablo]

Sorry, but I just had another "Bush League" recall.

I remember Brian Billick, coach of the Baltimore Ravens, yanking his team from Vet Stadium against the Eagles in a preseason game about 6 years ago because there were literally holes in the Vet Stadium turf. Yes preseason, but this is the NFL! And there were quite a few paid Butts in the seats.


Judge: Eagles owe city $8 million in suite revenue
Jun 8, 3:54 pm EDT

PHILADELPHIA (AP)—The Philadelphia Eagles owe the city $8 million in luxury box revenue from since-demolished Veterans Stadium.

That was a city judge’s ruling Monday in the long-running dispute between the city and its football team.

The Eagles say they won’t appeal the ruling.

In August 2005, Judge Albert Sheppard Jr. ruled the Eagles owed the city for luxury box revenues dating back to the 1990s but did not set an amount until Monday.

Sheppard is expected to rule next week in a separate dispute that could determine the total amount the Eagles must pay.

In that case, the judge will decide how much the city owes the team for a preseason game that had to be canceled because of problems with the turf.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=Ao89bsdHEiG6kYNUsCZhqfVDubYF?slug=ap-eagles-luxuryboxdispute&prov=ap&type=lgns

[Caballo Diablo]

Just a little reflection.
.....................................

TULSA, Okla. — A 21-year-old Oral Roberts University student has been severely injured while playing for a minor league football team in Springdale, Ark.

The World Football league says Emeka Nnaka incurred a severe spinal cord injury and fractured neck Saturday night when he collided with an Oklahoma Thunder teammate and an Arkansas War Cats player on a kickoff return.

Nnaka, a junior at ORU, was transported to a hospital in Fayetteville where he is awaiting surgery on Monday. Thunder team doctor Venkatesh Movva says he had slight movement in his hands but no movement or feeling in his lower extremities.

Movva says doctors hope to remove pressure from the spinal cord, where swelling has occurred.

WFL president James Ashford says there is hope that Nnaka -- the son of Nigerian parents -- can recover fully.
.................................................. ......

This had nothing to do with the field or equiptment, just a freak accident in a violent game.

Keita Iizuka, the Kicker for the Amarillo Dusters of the af2 Just shattered a vertebra in his neck as he went head first into the wall making a tackle on a kick off. These walls were the standard soft plastic typically used for Indoor/Arena football, not solid wood walls used for hockey and Indoor soccer. They were also fully padded, unlike the boards for hockey/Indoor soccer.

My prayers are with him and his family, we got to know him last season when he played for the Austin wranglers.

These are the reason the people running teams and venues must make every effort possible to ensure a safe working condition. yes, it's a violent sport but that doesn't mean caution and safety should be thrown out. Lives are far more important than entertainment at all costs.

[Caballo Diablo]

Keita Iizuka, the Kicker for the Amarillo Dusters of the af2 Just shattered a vertebra in his neck as he went head first into the wall making a tackle on a kick off. These walls were the standard soft plastic typically used for Indoor/Arena football, not solid wood walls used for hockey and Indoor soccer. They were also fully padded, unlike the boards for hockey/Indoor soccer.

My prayers are with him and his family, we got to know him last season when he played for the Austin wranglers.

here's an update on Keita.


Team Release Update

Amarillo, TX 6/9/09 – Last Saturday’s home game brought a somber note to this season’s Amarillo Dusters. Kicker Keita Iizuka suffered a neck injury, and is currently hospitalized.

Iizuka, went down during the opening kickoff of the second half, where he would suffer a severe neck injury. Iizuka underwent emergency surgery Saturday night, and is currently recovering.

“This is a very sad situation for us,” commented Dusters head coach Ben Bennett. “He is showing signs of improvement everyday. If heart and soul have anything to do with it, Keita will be alright. We are preparing for the worst and hoping for the best.”

--------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is from another poster on the AFLMB
I talked with Joe today and he said Keita was talking a little and when the nurse came in to do a sonogram on him she told him the cream was going to be cold and he flexed his legs, because of the cold, when she put it on him. He is getting some feeling back in toes and fingers also.