Ideas...

[ABARedWhiteBlue]

I posted this on the Yahoo board, but was hoping for more feedback from other basketball fans. I'll put it up here for other comments.

I think it is important for everyone here to understand that the people who are posting to this board raise very valid concerns about the league and its teams. I think that Sam and Anonymous would like to see the ABA succeed as a strong, viable minor league. Their passion for minor league sports is obvious in many of their posts, and they raise very real issues that can only serve to drag down the efforts of those teams who are truly making an effort to build a quality program.

That many of their posts have a negative or sarcastic tone seems to come from many of the replies they receive here and other places. Granted, both are probably incredulous when one thing after another just piles on to the list of the ABA's less positive events, including: teams dropping out, coming back, and dropping again; multiple ownership/name changes; teams with no venue to play, or playing in a middle school gym; published reports in newspapers around the country citing lawsuits, lack of organized front offices, little/no pay, insurance issues, and teams "choosing" not to travel; a season schedule that was at best a rough guess; and less than exemplary ownership groups. If only one or two of these occurred, perhaps the tone or perception would be different. However, taken as a whole, it can make for a very negative felling for the league.

The perception is that the league (no finger-pointing, but the ABA as a whole) has not addressed these issues head on to stem the tide; rather, the league seems more inclined to throw good money after bad - so to speak - by bringing in another high number of teams without stabilizing the teams already in the ABA. Of the teams that started the season this year, is there a definitive list of the teams that were still active and operating by season's end? Teams such as Philadelphia, Carolina, Colorado, Cincinnati, Detroit and Louisiana (off the top of my head) seem to play only as guests to fill holes in another team's schedule.

The events in Nashville and Utah are an entirely different issue, if only for how unique each was. However, some of the cause can be traced back to many of the issues laid out above.

To create a truly nationwide, regional basketball league is a great idea. For anyone who may have heard my interview with Randy Cross, I likened the ideal to NCAA basketball, where each conference plays among themselves, then sends its best to compete against everyone else. I think the ABA can work in much the same way, but there are real, practical issues that absolutely must be addressed in order to be successful.

First and foremost, I believe that only one team announced in the last two years had a signed deal in place for a venue WHEN THE FRANCHISE WAS ANNOUNCED - Ron Eford's New Jersey franchise. While many were able to find a place to play, there were still so many homeless teams even during the season. Harlem was forced to play it's first few games in any gym they could find, including one home game against New Jersey in NJ's practice gym (with an indoor skating park just behind one of the baskets). High schools, community centers and (dear god) middle schools are nowhere to play a game.

Joe, as a public service, would it be possible to list all the active teams for next season, and include their facility? It would seem to me that there should be a minimum standard set for any team to enter the ABA, and those standards should include adequate facilities to play games. While it may be tough to do, I would suggest a committee made up of owners in the league to establish the standards for the league. If any team is unable to comply by a specific date - say, 90 days before opening day - then they don't play for the year, and they forfeit their fee. I feel the league
would benefit from a smaller, yet stronger group of owners who are
committed to seeing the league succeed.

As a public relations move, this can only be perceived as a plus, bringing positive reaction and feedback to a league which sorely needs it. I think even Sam and Anonymous would approve.

Sorry for the length - but I felt I wanted to say my piece.

I look forward to any feedback from the rest of the board. If there is one item someone may not agree with, I would hope that they would consider the rest of my message, and not just dwell upon a couple words that didn't sit well with them. To do that would be to ignore the numerous other issues discussed, and would not get around to answering the question.

As I said in my post yesterday, I worked very hard for my ABA team this year - virtually from the day it was formed. Can I retire on what I made? Not unless I wanted to live out my years in a large cardboard box somewhere. But I did it because I have an undying passion for sports, and the desire to see a franchise and league run the way I have imagined one could run for years.

Joe, Josh and everyone else - I look forward to your input as well.

Respectfully (to keep an open communication),
Adam Colaizzi
VP Operations
NJ SkyCats

[Sam Hill]

Thanks, Adam.

Unfortunately, if Joe replies, he'll likely brand you as meanspirited and come up with some way to denigrate you so that he doesn't have to respond to the meat of your message.

Or if he does, he'll blithely explain it away as "every organization has problems. We're working on it."

Well, they've been working on it for four years plus now. And there are those who have been pointing out the missteps for almost as long and nothing gets done about it. The ABA is past the point of being a startup enterprise - the honeymoon is over.

I'd love to see it work, but having seen the way he fiddles as Rome burns and the way he treats people who disagree with him, I can't support whatever happens as long as Newman is in charge. I thought things would turn around when Jim Clark was running the show, but then he started making some bizarre decisions on his watch and then just faded away and Joe came back to power.

At this point, I want one of three things:

1 - the ABA to start doing things the right way;
2 - Newman to step totally aside; or
3 - the ABA to die and Newman to be out of the business entirely.

Since as long as he's in charge, number one seems unlikely and I don't think he'd ever gracefully exit because his ego is too big, I'm left rooting for the third option.

I hope you and others like you who have given their best efforts to make their teams succeed get a chance to have it pay off, either with your current teams or another one or in another sport.

As for the snakes who have been clueless at best and corrupt at worst, a pox on all of their houses.

[skippy]

Things that I think minor league basketball is lacking in general.

Competitive ticket prices---It doesn't matter how good minor league bb players are, start ticket prices lower and raise them accordingly IF people start showing up. Use the University of New Mexico Lady Lobos model.
3 bucks an adult, 1 dollar a child, if you think it doesn't work, check out where they are in NCAA women's basketball attendance, 7 years after having 2 season ticket holders.

Competent promotions----Basketball has shown zero ability to draw fans to their games based on promotions...No firework nights {impossible, I know}, many teams can't do food discounts because the get little concession money...it's a mess. There is a lack of fun at these games, and a lack of attempting something different.

I think the biggie is this one: No local "face" to put on the franchises.
No community involvement.

This was the NBDL's big drawback in the south...no team logos, no local ownership....etc. We'll see if they remedy that in the west.

[Ken, Steelheads fan]

Actually, indoor firework displays were all the rage until that big nightclub fire (in Rhode Island?) a few years back.

I'd like to see better promotions at basketball games too. My personal favorite is movie nights (although I've only experienced movie nights at minor league baseball games). The Steelheads have a huge video scoreboard. Finding Nemo would go over well in Steelheads Town, in my opinion.

[skippy]

I've never heard of movie nights...that does sound cool though.

Ken, what were some of the Steelheads promotions that you've seen work?

Mini-basketballs?
Towel night?
Thunderstixx?

This stuff sucks....come up with something different.

If a town has hockey, baseball, basketball, and indoor football, there is much too much overlap on these giveaways and Myron Noodlemans.

[CRUSADERSFAN]

Another idea for promotions may be to get star basketball players to sign autographs. I went to a baseball game where Jim Palmer was signing autographs, it was a packed house.

[Ken, Steelheads fan]

The only promotions I've seen work at Steelheads games were mention the name of the sponsor and purchase a ticket for a buck promotion and the time the Steelheads brought-in a rthythm and blues act to perform at halftime.

Myron Noodleman performs at Steelheads games at least once a year.

[skippy]

The autograph thing is a good idea.
Does minor league basketball have any teams doing buyout nights?

Laser light shows???
Post game concerts with safe acts like the Beach Boys, or Olivia Newton John?
I dunno, I'm grasping at straws here.

Does Myron Noodleman/Zooperstars/etc...actually draw anyone to the game, or are they just a nice addition to the people who are already coming?

[TEN]

As someone who has been involved in minor league basketball management for a while, my biggest problem with the ABA is how they are reflecting on the rest of us in the business. While all leagues have our problems, I consider it VERY important to keep the integrity of the schedule.

I can't imagine what my season ticket holders (around 1000 or so) would have said if home games were not played as scheduled. The ABA cannot be even close to successful until they stick to a schedule and PLAY it! Those great crowds in Arkansas? How many won't be back next year because of games missed or re-scheduled? I would hate to have the promotions job for ANY team in this league.

Players are turned off of minor league basketball after horrible experiences in the ABA...Owners are getting involved with absolutely NO idea about what it takes to be successful (or even mediocre)...Owners who do have good intentions are just getting ripped off.

I have been following this league since the beginning and am still waiting to see any redeeming value.

And I guess I will just keep waiting...

[skippy]

What promotions have worked best for you Ten?

[TEN]

Giveaways have never really paid off...and our best promotion didn't cost us a dime.

We had our only advance sellout by promoting an appearance by Kareem Abdul Jabbar when he was a coach in the USBL. We blew it up as big as possible and sold every ticket before we opened the doors.

A San Diego Chicken appearance almost sold out and the Laker Girls did really well also...In a small market, people have a WOW factor that you don't see in larger cities. I think minor league basketball works better in under 100K cities. You are a big fish in a small pond...and the media usually does anything they can to help you (as long as they feel you are on the up and up). Also had good luck with NBA mascots (Rocky from the Denver Nuggets was always a crowd favorite).

[skippy]

Does the cost of the mascots/Cheerleaders pay for themselves in ticket sales?
I would think the Chicken would, but other mascots wouldn't.

I would agree that minor league basketball is best for cities under 100,000.

Have you ever tried a post game concert?

Two quick questions, non-related questions.

Does Kareem still want to coach?
and
Do you have a desire to work in the NBA?

[Sam Hill]

I would think in an arena as small as Dodge City was, you'd be hard-pressed to sell enough tickets to make The Chicken worthwhile. The Chicken requires that you spend x amount on advertising his appearance (or he used to, anyway), which adds to the cost. And at least in Dodge, if memory serves, there were only so many tickets you could sell to recoup the cost.

I can see how the Laker Girls would be a good draw, though. It's not like you get to see women like that every day in Dodge City. :)

Though the Kansas City Knights had the Dallas Cowboy Cheerleaders at their opener and didn't draw much, IIRC.

The best promotion the ABA could do would be "This Game Will Actually Be Played As Scheduled" Night.

[rimrockerfan]

First of all concerning the big crowds at Arkansas being back next year, NO home games were missed, all were played, although the opponent wasn't always the one listed on the ticket. Management had to scramble to get teams in a couple of times, but the fans were never made to suffer any inconvenience.

As for promotions, the Rim Rockers were very successful in that department. Mark Martin night drew 9,000+, Spongebob Kid's night drew 7000+, the Dallas Cowboy cheerleaders drew 7000+, and there were several other great promotions. The best way to get fans to the game though has been through winning and great communication with the media and with the public through advertising. I think every major radio and TV station in town has had a night and a featured 11th man.

The main thing that has worked is committment and hard work. Otis Birdsong and Larry Crain have led the way in making it happen, but it has taken everything and everyone working together to make it happen. Minor league basketball is really no different than any other business model, a well thought out plan based on a ton of preperation backed up by execution and not letting the distractions get you off focus will be successful.

The entire Rim Rocker organization deserves recognition and attaboys for making it happen. Congratulations on a great year and go for it Saturday night!

[Anonymous Hardhat]

I agree with Rimrockerfan. The Arkansas RimRockers and their owners, management, coaches and players are a class act. They have done it "right" in a league that has done almost everything "wrong". If I were the other ABA owners, I would be begging Larry Crain and Otis Birdsong to exert their influence on Joe Newman to get him to step down as commissioner or at least include them on a board of governors for this league. If the ABA will succeed, it will be the result of teams like the Arkansas RimRockers and people like Larry Crain and Otis Birdsong.

As an aside, I think it is a shame that the ABA put the Arkansas RimRockers in the position of hosting the ABA Championship Game on a holiday weekend. While I hope attendance stays high, it will be difficult to get people to come to a game when they are likely traveling or preparing for Easter. These playoffs should have been finished a long time ago so that the games were bunched together in order to get the attention and excitement at a high level. I'm sure it has been tough on the Arkansas Rimrockers to keep up the intensity over the past three weeks when they are only playing one game/week.

By the way, does anyone know the attendance for the Maryland-Bellevue game. Kudos to Bellevue for winning on the road AGAIN. While Bellevue received alot of bad press early in the season, they have redeemed themselves by traveling around the US playing road teams against solid competition. I commend the ownership of Bellevue to footing the bill for a travel schedule that his team endured like no other team.

[Houston Caldwell]

But I have a lot of the same exposure problems as minor league basketball, if not even more so (an NAFL team in anNFL/Arena1 city).
Here are some things we're doing, which will be followed by things we're looking at (cost being factor).
1- A Season Pass Sale Drive where commissions are paid (individuals, other sports teams, businesses, every booster club that will say YES)
2- A $1.00 per person group special for all teams from Pro to youth(also cheerleaders and band) IN UNIFORM with PA announcement.
3- Pregame tailgates and postgame after-parties before and after all games, whole fan base invited.
4- Well, let's face it, with ME involved, Thunderstix will be there.
Some things under consideration;
1- MASCOT OF THE WEEK- Titans, Kats, Vandy, TSU and other teams all have mascots; an appearance at each game by one of them.
2- WE'RE GOING TO DO SOMETHING TO HONOR THE RHYTHM- After their being ripped off out of the playoff spot they earned, SOMEBODY ought to do something nice for the coaches and the 8 players who played all year.
Football and basketball have different parameters, but in all minor league sports, we have a duty to be as innovative as we can to enhance the fan experience. We don't have Steve McNair to offer, but we'll make it fun.

[Houston Caldwell]

Does anyone realize the Rimrockers LOST MONEY in the 2004-5 season?
While NBDL is a clearly more stable league, the ABA Rimrockers got to field a team heavily populated by former Arkansas Razorbacks; along with the promos, this accounted for some of that superb attendance.
Will they do as well with an NBDL-dictated roster? This will be interesting to see.

[meyes]

I have been giving some thought to this proposed (I haven't seen anything that makes it official, yet) RimRockers move. While I understand the frustrations and very real concerns about ABA management, I suspect it will be much harder to sell the NBDL. The likely restrictions on roster choices could be one factor. In my opinion, the style of play will be a factor. The NBDL is the NBA game with a lower level of ability in the players and a RWB ball. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with that, but I, personally, find the ABA style of game to be much more interesting and exciting. Granted, the RimRockers do have a good head start because fans from this season will likely come to early games to see what's up, but the team won't be defending champions, the game will be different, and one again, opponents will be unknown teams.
From a purely business standpoint, I can see the move. From the basketball and marketing standpoints, I think it will be difficult.

[Houston Caldwell]

You and I share an enthusiasm for the ABA rules and style; I believe Arkansas wanted to stay in a HIGHLY REFORMED ABA, and have the autonomy to continue a successful gate formula.
One reason Arkansas did not turn a profit was having to pay for the travel of many of their opponents, something they did for their fans, not because they were obligated to do it.
Unfortunately, Joe's not going to change; and good franchises like Arkansas will leave after one season.
The "D" league could help themselves at the gate, believe it or not, adopting some ABA ideas (even though D is the better league); if Nashville had an NBDL franchise, looking at players in the league, it could do a lot better at the gate if Kirk Haston and Ron Slay played in Nashville.
Hope David Stern can take this further, find the POSITIVE things in less successful leagues like the ABA, and co-opt them, much like the late 70s NBA did.

[meyes]

Houston,
I agree with you. Probably the most realistic expectation is that the NBDL (and possibly the NBA) will again pick up the best of the ABA innovations.

[Ken, Steelheads fan]

We haven't heard word one from David Stern about Arkansas going to the NBDL. I'll believe it when Stern says it's a deal.

I can believe Arkansas lost money though. I would be quite surprised if they made money in 2004-2005, their first season. I can also believe the NBDL style of play leaves much to be desired (having watched a few games back when their games were telecast on Monday afternoons on ESPN). I cannot believe that the ABA style of play is much better though (based on the number of NBA call-ups each season). The CBA Rockford Lightning employ a similar fast-paced style. I find that style of play raggedy and without enough defense...but heck! People in and around Rockford love it.

Okay, okay! I'm a Lightning hater. :?

[Common Sense]

Ken Steelhead, the people in and around Rockford might not be loving that style any more than you do soon. That style allowed Sioux Falls to drop 150 on the Lightning last night to go up 2 games to none in the CBA Finals. And that is with regular basketball rules, with no special points allowed for special situations as the ABA has for certain situations that can sometimes inflate scoring. (I'm not saying those ABA rules are bad at all, just pointing out, this is a traditional 150)
That CBA finals series is long from over though. Rockford was down 0-2 to Great Lakes and still came back to win 3 in a row and get to the league finals.

[TEN]

The Chicken and the Laker Girls were underwritten by sponsors. I've worked with the Chicken many times over the years and he cuts me a good deal. We had 2500 seats in the venue and drew about 2300 for the Laker Girls and the Chicken...2800 for the Kareem debut.
Best bang for the buck...Rocky from the Nuggets ($1500 plus flying him in from Denver) puts on a great show.

[Houston Caldwell]

You've already seen my love of $1.00 ticketing promos, and we just came up with the KILLER for the Storm's June 25 home opener.
"People Who Keep US Safe Night"; all bearers of police, fire, and military IDs (keep in mind the 101st Airborne is 45 minutes from Nashville, and one of my co-owners was a longtime "Screaming Eagle") get in for $1.00.
Of course, we will have season passes for the remaining 5 home games available at the merchandise table.

[SmoothQue]

How could any of you believe that the RR lost money this season? Be mindful that the RR averaged 5,500 fans a game this season with ticket prices ranging from $10 to $50 with 80% of the $50 sold. Also the RR played all 18 regular season home games plus 4 or 5 playoff games. I would imagine that they had roughly a half million dollars in sponsorships. The you have to consider monies from concession stands, merchandise, and parking.

I would say that the RR made a slim profit this season not much but a slim profit. If they lost I would be shocked.

[Anonymous Hardhat]

If you factor in (a) the startup costs associated with a new franchise (or any business for that matter, (b) the salary paid to Otis Birdsong and Joe Harge (as well as the staff and players), (c) the rent paid at Alltel Arena (which probably didn't share concession or parking revenue), and (d) the travel expenses paid to visiting teams to make sure that they played 18 home games, I think it is very likely that they lost money this year. You have to figure that merchandise didn't generate much revenue (it never does in minor league sports). You also don't know how many of the 5,500 fans were paying customers (some were probably lumped into sponsorships or promotions).

They probably didn't lose much, but I'm sure they were in the red. If they repeat those same attendance figures next year, I think they will be in the black.

[Sam Hill]

How could any of you believe that the RR lost money this season? Be mindful that the RR averaged 5,500 fans a game this season with ticket prices ranging from $10 to $50 with 80% of the $50 sold. Also the RR played all 18 regular season home games plus 4 or 5 playoff games. I would imagine that they had roughly a half million dollars in sponsorships. The you have to consider monies from concession stands, merchandise, and parking.

I would say that the RR made a slim profit this season not much but a slim profit. If they lost I would be shocked.

It's very, very difficult to make money the first year as a startup. Even if you are as successful as Arkansas was.

I can believe they probably lost some money this season because I've done this before. I doubt they had half a million in cash sponsorships. Almost no one can do that.

[Ken, Steelheads fan]

...And the ABA never had a real schedule. How many season tickets did the RimRockers sell? That's where the money is.

This team lost cash in 2004-2005.