Great day for the IFL

[blanketman]

As much as the Raiders are excited for the players named today from the dormant AFL, we are more excited about the future of the IFL. HavinG quality players with close "real" football rules, like the ifl is really starting to get those Players like Rob Mager and Matt Kohn into our league.

[exit322]

Yes, it's good that the IFL is starting to get the types of players the AF2 has had for nearly a decade now.

And maybe...juuuuust maybe...one of these days people will realize that so long as the talent level is comparable across the board and isn't really bad...fans really don't much notice, or care. No, it's not likely, but I may as well dream big.

[Bruiser]

And maybe...juuuuust maybe...one of these days people will realize that so long as the talent level is comparable across the board and isn't really bad...fans really don't much notice, or care. No, it's not likely, but I may as well dream big.

I think it's quite possible now that there is no AFL and one of the perks (moving up) for joining the af2 is gone. Parity should be easily obtainable now assuming there are reasonable constraints on payrolls so the Steinbrenner effect doesnt happen (although he seems to overspend lately and still come up short)

There will always be guys fresh out of school that still want to play while they are searching for their place in this world. So the talent will be there it's just how it will be dispersed.

Personally I still like the regional concept, where these leagues have teams play a regular season within close proximity of one another and organize a national championship if it's warranted. It's going to be interesting watching how the af2 and IFL handle their national footprint this season. Now I know the more regionally based SIFL, CIFL and AIFA are far from exemplary organizations, but it just seems more manageable and much less exposure for potential failure in their cases.

[exit322]

This is very true. The AF2 will have to show its track record of moving guys up across the board (their CFL track record is similarly better than indoor leagues, save Rome GA for some reason, as well).

[blanketman]

Yes, it's good that the IFL is starting to get the types of players the AF2 has had for nearly a decade now.

And maybe...juuuuust maybe...one of these days people will realize that so long as the talent level is comparable across the board and isn't really bad...fans really don't much notice, or care. No, it's not likely, but I may as well dream big.



Actually exit,you happen to be wrong again. The af2 players that we signed will find a very competitive camp.Outside of Matt Kohn,who never played af2 ,the other 2 players will need to bring their A game to see the field. For some strange reason,
you forget that we had a guy named Rob Schroeder who could nt start for our team in 2006,not only play in the afl but start in 2007-8.Many of our cuts from last year were quality players for af2 teams last year"i.e."Brenton Brady from Albany.Last year,the sabrecats offered 4 contracts while trying 9 of our players out. Furthermore, the Buffalo bills had Dale Buck,Mo Jackson,Mike Mikoliechik,and Jimmy Baker in for tryouts just last year alone. The fact of the matter is Rob Mager, Cesare Manning and Matt Kohn were offered positions everywhere in af2,Mager was af2player of the year for crying out loud, they chose Rochester for their opportunity to have the BILLs look at them.In adddition, we just resigned Kenton Johnson,who was in Seattles Seahawks Camp last year. He is 6 ft 6 325 georgia tech player,nfl europe too. He wants nothing to do with the af2. The ifl will be a tough league .

[Caballo Diablo]

Blanketman, did I misinterpret your post?
It sounded like you said the AFL was less talented than the IFL, since it's their first season really it would have to be the UIF and Intense League we would have to compare.

[exit322]

Yes, I do believe he basically said the AFL was less talented than the IFL.

The IFL teams could compete in the bottom half of the AF2, and would probably have some success in that realm. Teams like Spokane and Tennessee Valley would smoke whatever the IFL had to offer, and it probably wouldn't even be that close unless they let it stay close.

[blanketman]

Yes, I do believe he basically said the AFL was less talented than the IFL.

The IFL teams could compete in the bottom half of the AF2, and would probably have some success in that realm. Teams like Spokane and Tennessee Valley would smoke whatever the IFL had to offer, and it probably wouldn't even be that close unless they let it stay close.

Lol, different rules big guy. First of all,where did i say the Ifl was better then the Afl. Certainly anyone is better than them financially right now right?But, i was referring to the Raiders now wasnt i?Do I think we could compete with Wilkes Barre Scranton? lol... our rules with no nets?.... exit there is not 5 guys on that team that would make our squad with 8 on 8 "real football"Most our cuts go to those teams . I would take a game against Spokane or Tulsa anyday . We challenge Wilkes Barre all the time ...answer is no from Kurtz.He is a good guy but when it comes to football are team has way to much speed when regulation football is played. We would beat those teams by a good amount. As a matter of fact we are offering a challenge match with any of those teams during our by weeks . Call them up Exit tell them to play us on April11 or april 25th. That will be fun. I will pay ther way and give wilkes Barre 15k for an appearance. call them care to wager lol Free seats are waiting.

[blanketman]

Blanketman, did I misinterpret your post?
It sounded like you said the AFL was less talented than the IFL, since it's their first season really it would have to be the UIF and Intense League we would have to compare. Many of these guys cant afford to play in the Afl.I know that sounds crazy but it is true. Joe Donnelly would never leave his high paying job for 30k in the afl. Most raiders are great local players .Many have good jobs. Some were going to go to the sabrecats this year before disaster struck with that league.The Afl is completely different football than IFL indoor.Many players stay local for their"real" jobsrather than go to other leagues. We had an offer on the table with Russ Michna .Since he has a great job in Chicago he turned us down ,eventually signing with the cifl Slaughter.Here is a guy that started for the Rush was forth in the league as QB. Why didnt he Sign with an AF2 team if its such a great league?Why did he sign with the cifl?Is he a worse player now that he is in that league?Spokane would love to have him right? He signed with Chicago because that is his LOCAL town. That happens to many players.

[arenafan]

When all of these AFL players sign with indoor leagues, they don't do it because of the league (IFL, AIFA, CIFL, etc) They could care less. It is the money or perks they get from that team. Why do you think Russ Michna signed with the CIFL Chicago Slaughter. He already stays in Chicago and he is getting taken care of.

[Caballo Diablo]

Maybe I'm misinterpreting both of you guys now- lol

The AFL and af2 are two different things also, and yes the AFL won't play next year due to financial stupidity but $30k was what the AFL ballboys got, the players were paid quite nicely, the $2 mil salary cap was ONE of their big problems. They had players making over $100k per year (legally - lol), it's the af2 that pays $200/$250 per game and is more on line with the Indoor leagues.

For some dumb reason the AFL has forbid their players to sign with an af2 team, but it doesn't mean some won't. Many players are waiting to see if the AFLPA and CBA has any balls before challenging the league. They need to stay in game shape and play somewhere. I hope they all sign with someone.

[blanketman]

Maybe I'm misinterpreting both of you guys now- lol

The AFL and af2 are two different things also, and yes the AFL won't play next year due to financial stupidity but $30k was what the AFL ballboys got, the players were paid quite nicely, the $2 mil salary cap was ONE of their big problems. They had players making over $100k per year (legally - lol), it's the af2 that pays $200/$250 per game and is more on line with the Indoor leagues.

For some dumb reason the AFL has forbid their players to sign with an af2 team, but it doesn't mean some won't. Many players are waiting to see if the AFLPA and CBA has any balls before challenging the league. They need to stay in game shape and play somewhere. I hope they all sign with someone.You better check those facts again. Most players that start make between 32k and 50k tops. Russ Michna was in that range.He started the year as a back up. This year he would have cashed in for about 80k-110k,there abouts. Outside of a hand full of diarazios, players dont get rich. No one did;especially not the owners;lol. Also, you wrong about the Af2 signing afl players now. The players just got out of a conference call with the union 2 days ago . They can sign with anyone. The union told them they could collect unemployment. Check your sources.Michna signed with the slaughter because he has a great job in Chicago. Mager and Manning were pursued heavily by the Talons.That is the truth so help me god lol

[blanketman]

When all of these AFL players sign with indoor leagues, they don't do it because of the league (IFL, AIFA, CIFL, etc) They could care less. It is the money or perks they get from that team. Why do you think Russ Michna signed with the CIFL Chicago Slaughter. He already stays in Chicago and he is getting taken care of.

I completely agree with you. Because he lives there. That matters most.

[Bruiser]

Mager and Manning were pursued heavily by the Talons.
If the money and perks were similar between the af2/IFL, I'd go as far to say a "spite" factor may even be an issue. A player may very well be thinking, "Arenaball screwed me, so screw them and their af2!"

That and the fact they'd have to hole up in Tulsa fercrissakes! P.U. :)

[Caballo Diablo]

You better check those facts again. Most players that start make between 32k and 50k tops. Russ Michna was in that range.He started the year as a back up. This year he would have cashed in for about 80k-110k,there abouts. Outside of a hand full of diarazios, players dont get rich. No one did;especially not the owners;lol. Also, you wrong about the Af2 signing afl players now. The players just got out of a conference call with the union 2 days ago . They can sign with anyone. The union told them they could collect unemployment. Check your sources.Michna signed with the slaughter because he has a great job in Chicago. Mager and Manning were pursued heavily by the Talons.That is the truth so help me god lol
haha, sorry for the totally wrong info.

You say SOME start at 32K, aren't SOME backups just considered ballboys- lol
I said SOME players make 100k, you confirmed - lol - a couple were over 150k because only half of the franchise players salary was a cap hit.

The AFL HAD told them they couldn't sign with the af2, that was more to make the teams back off persuing the players more than the players themselves.
Plus we all knew talks were still ongoing about the direction of many things.
Sorry I didn't get the meeting memo - lol - most players I've talked to are still unsure of what will transpire regardless of that meeting.

But back to my original question,
Most teams listed in the previous posts, except the Sabercats were af2 teams. I feel the Indoor leagues and the af2 are comparable in many areas, and their niche for inexpensive football is very similar.

However, I felt that the AFL was at a higher level above all leagues not played outdoors- lol. Were you saying that you felt the UIF and Intense League were on par with the AFL talent wise league wide. Of course some of their players were, but team for team, roster for roster I feel the AFL had more talent.

[daytonadan]

There's no doubt that the quality of the on-field product will elevate throughout the entire sport of indoor football in 2009 due to the suspension of the arena football league.

But we need to remember that the sport is a still a minor league sport and there will always be a tremendous talent gap between indoor football and the major league.

Any chest thumping needs to parlayed with the focus of providing affordable family entertainment as well as having as a solid business plan that ensures long-term survival.

Now, that that's said, may I ask my esteemed colleagues from Rochester a question?

[blanketman]

haha, sorry for the totally wrong info.

But back to my original question,
Most teams listed in the previous posts, except the Sabercats were af2 teams. I feel the Indoor leagues and the af2 are comparable in many areas, and their niche for inexpensive football is very similar.

However, I felt that the AFL was at a higher level above all leagues not played outdoors- lol. Were you saying that you felt the UIF and Intense League were on par with the AFL talent wise league wide. Of course some of their players were, but team for team, roster for roster I feel the AFL had more talent. I absolutely agree with you on the af2 and indoor leagues being similar in talent.No i dont believe the ifl has the same talent level league wide as the afl.I believe teams in the ifl,like the storm and the raiders, with 8 on 8 real football rules could give certain teams like the avengers more than they bargained for;however,when you are talking about the sabrecats and the Rush on arena rules...no way .With regards to the af2 on ifl rules anytime anyplace. You see I do agree with you on the afl.Higher talent.

[Caballo Diablo]

haha, thanks for the reply we agree on both.

If the af2 and Indoor leagues played under the same rules they are comparable and the AFL was a step higher. That's what bigger paychecks can do - lol.

With the demise of the AFL, the IFL could move past the af2 talent wise.
They should definitely move further past the other alphabet indoor leagues.
Many af2 players chose that league due to it being a minor league to a higher league, they wanted to move up for to the livable salaries and had a better chance of being noticed by the parent league. Now that incentive is gone and the AFL players are also looking for a place to play.

Even IF the AFL returns it'll be a mere shadow of itself and the salary cap will be drastically reduced. The AFL as we knew seems to be dead.

[exit322]

And totally missing from this conversation...yet again...is how little fans care.

If a great team on the field was all that was necessary to draw fans, the large number of teams that won lots of games wouldn't have folded...and the Wyoming Cavalry wouldn't still be drawing 3000-plus most games.

"We have all this talent." Yeah, and from talking to Raiders fans, there's more excitement at most t-ball games. Nothing to do to get fans excited, nothing that makes anyone give one rat's behind about the team. And as such...Rochester, a very good team on the field, draws less than two-thirds of the sport (at least). If you put a third the effort toward making Raiders games an event people in Rochester could care about as you do the football team that they already don't care about, it would be a different story.

Instead, you're spending time trying to convince us how great the IFL is, when we know you're the one that's full of it.

[Bruiser]

Winning is obviously not something to be taken lightly though Exit. You cannot deny that given a choice the W is always chosen over the L by fans (unless there's a #1 draft pick involved ;) ) But agreed, you need some fans to care first.

Now about this IFL is better than the four letter leagues propoganda... there is no proof that the IFL will do ANYTHING better than the other leagues out there.. except perhaps bragging about themselves. You got the Bills old superstars Bob? We got the old Bears. You got top notch indoor players out in the Roc, we got them here in Chi-town. We got 1000's of fans, including those orphaned by the AFL chompin' at the bit for March 6 to come around, you got... um, OK, skip that one.

Hey Bob, you say this IFL is REAL football? But you said that same thing about the AIFA, CIFL and GLIFL before that, didn't you? How am I to believe you this time? Let's see that IFL rulebook, you folks have decided on your rules by now haven't you? I don't wanna hear about how the AFL didn't publish their rulebook or how the CIFL has a living rulebook that changes by the hour... I want to see YOUR IFL rulebook, y'know one like the REAL NFL publishes (at least in digest format) on their site for all to see. Wait, does the IFL have a website yet? Man, I am so glad you are here to tell us about the IFL, because it's apparent no one else is going to do it.

[exit322]

Yeah, the IFL has a website now, Bruiser. http://www.unitedindoorfootball.com

The IFL rule book will be almost verbatim the UIF rule book, which makes it far closer to "outdoor" than the arena leagues, but not as close to outdoor rules as the CIFL. The 7-on-7 league is still the one closest to the 100-yard game we know and love.

But 99% of fans won't know the difference, like the number of them at Raiders games in '06 that thought it was the same league the Brigade were in.

[Bruiser]

Yeah, the IFL has a website now, Bruiser. http://www.unitedindoorfootball.com

No, really, I was serious. That's the old UIF link, who IIRC had no internet savvy or cared for any type of interaction with their fans, at least to the extent that the AFL or CIFL do/did.... Ahhh, now I get it. Is THAT why the IFL is being touted like REAL NFL football?

[exit322]

No, really...that's where the IFL information is. www.goifl.com reverts to the UIF site.

Assuming the site works; it appears to be down right now.

[Caballo Diablo]

And totally missing from this conversation...yet again...is how little fans care.

This is a major problem for all minor league sports. Not enough real fans of the teams or sport itself. Every team has their group of diehards but the vast majority of Butts in the seats are casual fans more looking for some cheap entertainment than care about what happens over the course of the season. Occasioanly they'll look at the standings, but for the most part they can't even name the other teams in the league. Who's in the playoff hunt isn't even part of their thought process.

So what's a marketing team to do? Most local media's ignore the fact a team even exists, let alone promote them or track their progress. Advertising is expensive and for the most part doesn't sell enough extra tickets to cover the expense.

Me, I enjoy the game and could care less about the little fan games they play during timeouts. The T-shirt give aways? PFFT, I don't need anymore triple-x shirts with a sponsors/advertisers name on it. Half time, isn't that when you go release the recycled beer and get a fresh one? - lol

People that come to these types of forums love the sport and can actually name the players. Well most of the time anyways, but there's not enough of the real fans to support the cost of doing business. The advertisers don't want to pay unless you can get a certain amount of butt's in the seats to actually see their sinage on the boards or what have you. Thus, all the free tickets given out around the country.

The real fans will be there, so the PR is built around attracting the casual fan.
Many times this pis..., err iritates the diehards that they aren't getting any love. For some reason the casual fan goes nuts over the little BS promotions and freebies tossed into the stands. Then they leave early and many times don't even know who won, unless it was a blowout by the time they headed out to the parking lot with their AT&T T-shirt and plastic clapper hands.

I've seen so many teams and leagues come and go I'm just happy to have any team play in my town. I really don't care which league or style is declared the best, just give me some good football that I can afford to take my family to all season long and I'll spread the word to as many people as I can.

The real fans need to step up and support the 50 yard game no matter if it's Arena or Indoor. There isn't enough of us to go around and you never know who will playing in your town two or three years from now. Most diehards just pray someone will be playing.

[blanketman]

[QUOTE=Bruiser;108341]Winning is obviously not something to be taken lightly though Exit. You cannot deny that given a choice the W is always chosen over the L by fans (unless there's a #1 draft pick involved ;) ) But agreed, you need some fans to care first.

Now about this IFL is better than the four letter leagues propoganda... there is no proof that the IFL will do ANYTHING better than the other leagues out there.. except perhaps bragging about themselves. You got the Bills old superstars Bob? We got the old Bears. You got top notch indoor players out in the Roc, we got them here in Chi-town. We got 1000's of fans, including those orphaned by the AFL chompin' at the bit for March 6 to come around, you got... um, OK, skip that one.

Hey bruiser, the joke about our fan base is wrong First off , we avg 1750 paid fans last year. That is what matters to owners.If we wanted to throw in freebees like 2 years ago, 5000 fans would show up.However, you are right when i believe the cifl, aifa, and af2 have great players . Also, i loved the cifl football format. John Morris from the aifa was nothing but a class act to raiders.Please dont compare chicago with Rochester on the field ;they are not close.Records dont lie.A game with them wouldnt have been close.Russ however, now would get them within 30. lol

[exit322]

I will always wonder what would've happened in that title game had Port Huron's players been paid all year.

62-30
60-13

Of course, they werent, and the Raiders won a title because of it...there won't be any freebies in the IFL. And when you quit the league at the end of the year because they won't let you strongarm it...the SIFL doesn't work for travel.

And I think you added an extra 0 there...pretty sure there were only 500 fans there for that free-for-everyone-to-come Erie game, and not a whole lot more for the Baltimore game you almost lost (you think you can beat teams like Billings and Sioux Falls, and you needed all kinds of luck to beat Baltimore...um, yeah, earth to the Raiders...)

[Kicker3]

The Raiders - Baltimore That was not the 4-10 Baltimore team. It was a All-star team that the aifl put together to play the Raiders. It was players from teams that didn't make the playoffs. If you don't believe me check the game films from Baltimores season and then check the film from the Raiders game there are alot of different players.

[exit322]

The message doesn't change - they barely beat a team that had never practiced together then. And from that, players on teams that didn't make the playoffs (something that should be done in the AIFA if you're reasonably good).

Still doesn't make Rochester look like the world beaters they want anyone to believe they are.

[Caballo Diablo]

you wrong about the Af2 signing afl players now. The players just got out of a conference call with the union 2 days ago . They can sign with anyone. The union told them they could collect unemployment. Check your sources.
Could you fill me in on a little more details. Arena Players are still saying that AFL players can't sign/play for the af2.

3 1/2 even stated it on another forum after you told us this. Not trying to argue, just wondering what's going on.

Oh, and that 1/2 player - lol - he says he's a player but no one can confirm it and the other guys doubt his story. The other 3 are confirmed.

[Kicker3]

Exit 322 What are you smoking ?

[daytonadan]

Wouldn't it fun to watch a Frost/Nixon type interview with some of the indoor football powers-that-be?

[exit322]

Exit 322 What are you smoking ?

Nothing. I tell it how it is perfectly straight and narrow.

[raidermac10]

I,ll explain i met him when the spitalieries introduced his as our media relations director!!!in the beginning !it was such a joke when he could not get an artical in one newspaper the whole year so jeff with our blessing launched him!! Since then hes been a poison especially attacking the raiders cause he knows i cant stomach him cause he really means niothing but he always has somthing to comment about which most of his crap is 99% falicy!!that said lets talk about his expierience in playing football or even any sport for that matter!!! Ok thats enough said about that! Then he comes on talkin about our raider games are boring which im sure he talks to the only two mad fans at the raiders right now bigdog and rebel god knows why they are mad all i did was accomadate their drama and inept fan club recruiting [ 15 members strong]for 3 years and there still drinking the cifl koolaid!!wow what another joke!!!! Exit is truley delusional and he needs to get a life instead of posting every nite in every indoor boards in america!!but if you ever seen him you will surley know why that goes on!any way keep you stupid comments on football and what you think you know about it to yourself cause you know nothing about it or the game believe me on that! Any questions call me and be a man when you try to bad mouth my team!!!we know that wont happen! I hear your back to beggin jeff spitaleri to let you back into his delusional indoor football gossip club!! And please you and that other goof cabo diablo or what ever your handle is! Please state your accomplishments or expirience on your prowess of evaluating players and telling us how much better afl player are then indoor players!!you two clowns do not have a clue!!!

[raidermac10]

Really what are your credentials since your making all these statements about talent of players and why the afl is stronger then the ifl!!!which by the way is manure!!!ive built championship teams my name is david mccarthy!!!! So tell me what team you have built!!that makes you a so called expert! What have you done besides post on this board anonymously no less and bable wrong assumptions!!!state who you are before you answer me son!

[raidermac10]

Truth is they have no idea how to evaluate talent hence they fall for what most john q public was sold on by mr baker and mr kurse!!which is the simple fact that the afl players werent all they we cracked up to be as a matter of fact there were alot of guys on those rosters that wouldnt have made an impact on most indoor teams!! And in the end it was them that brought the afl down!!now what

[Bruiser]

Hey bruiser, the joke about our fan base is wrong First off , we avg 1750 paid fans last year. That is what matters to owners.If we wanted to throw in freebees like 2 years ago, 5000 fans would show up.However, you are right when i believe the cifl, aifa, and af2 have great players . Also, i loved the cifl football format. John Morris from the aifa was nothing but a class act to raiders.Please dont compare chicago with Rochester on the field ;they are not close.Records dont lie.A game with them wouldnt have been close.Russ however, now would get them within 30. lol
Well, that's what is troubling Bob. Attendance woes are no joke as far as I can tell. I just finished skimming through a number of Roc games from a few years ago. (ya I'm a dork, and save them just for times like this.) Don't have any from last season, but I'll assume Blue Cross wasn't much better attended than the Sports Centre (did that horseshoe even hold 2K at capacity?) or Armory. From games vs. PH to NJ it didn't matter, the 25 yd lines and endzone had folks bunched together in pockets, but then the bodies quickly give way to a lot of empty space. I could always hear that damn drum though, the echo really carries.

Ya, I like the CIFL game too. Can't quite tell you why other than it just "feels" better indoors than the UIF games I have attended. AIFA can't really comment on other than the Erie games I saw on FSN last year. IMO nothing to write home about. So, I'm definately willing to wait for my final verdict on the IFL, I just can't see how people are crowning them the heir apparent to indoor FB kings when there hasn't been a down played yet and we don't know much about their gameplay.

As for Chicago vs Rochester. We had the one game, which Roc won handily for sure. But then you got scared and took off. ;) I'd prefer the actual rematch one day instead of getting into a p!ssing match on a message board about what woulda, shoulda, coulda been.

Oh, and Mac broke loose again. Time to get a much sturdier chain.

[exit322]

ESL held 2200 or so in the seating areas, 2500 or so if you add standing room in there.

AIFA rules aren't a whole lot different from AFL rules, only with the UNO, two men in motion, and (of course) lack of nets.

As can be seen here, some won't ever get it. If having a great team was all that was necessary, the Raiders would've outdrawn more than a third of the sport (if they outdrew that much). As we can see Bob bragging about 1750 paid fans per game (when there are numerous teams with more paid season ticket holders than that), apparently the on-field aspect isn't nearly as important as some feel it is.

Which I've been trying to explain for years.

If it was, Marion wouldn't get 2500-3000 fans a game, because they're always around .500. Wyoming would be dead because they went 5-9 and 4-10 every year. Sioux City wouldn't be around after their lean years.

Teams that depend so much on the on-field aspect will eventually fail. There's about a 100% failure clip here, most notably by the Ohio Valley Greyhounds. Worry about getting people excited about the game - especially in Rochester, where there's a good football coach in place. To do otherwise will guarantee failure. Unless you think being outdrawn by last year's Fort Wayne team is a success.

[Kicker3]

Raidermac10 You are wrong about Exit322 not being able to put articles in the paper and getting it out to the Media. My neighbors kids saw a article about the CIFL in their Weekly Reader that Exit322 wrote Great Job Exit322 don't listen to what Raidermac10 saids He only helped get the CIFL off the ground when it started. The difference is Raidermac10 is still involved with indoor football and you are not.

[preeths]

raidermac10, your posts speak volumes. That's not a good thing. Personal attacks are not allowed here. The only reason I'm leaving yours up is that I believe they say much more about you than your target.

[Caballo Diablo]

Really what are your credentials since your making all these statements about talent of players and why the afl is stronger then the ifl!!!which by the way is manure!!!ive built championship teams my name is david mccarthy!!!! So tell me what team you have built!!that makes you a so called expert! What have you done besides post on this board anonymously no less and bable wrong assumptions!!!state who you are before you answer me son!
Wow, Dave- unknot those panties so you can breathe a little better.

Go back an reread the threads, I didn't put down any of the leagues, front offices, or players. As a matter of fact I supported ALL of them. So just because you disagree with opinions posted on a message board it makes them delusional? But you have just given me reason to root against one of them- lol

You feel your team and league is more talented than the AFL, fine, many of us believe that to be delusional, so what? If it was true you wouldn't be so insecure about it that you have to go to a message board and attack the opinions of others. You've just proved the front offices of the other teams are better. I've never seen an owner, GM, coach, what have you go to a message board with the sole purpose of proving their an @$$, thanks for the heads up for those of us that don't know you. Seems like if you truly were the great talent evaluator you claim that we would all have known you years ago and you would be running the player personnel dept. for an NFL team.

I do have to admit you've got a strange PR style. Going to a forum and acting like a juvenile, calling people out and really impressing fans and advertisers. Were you out sick the day they had the PR class in business 101 at your local Juco?

You don't know me, and I don't have to explain anything to you. I didn't attack you, your team, or your league so I'm confused as to how that bug got up your @$$ about me. If you would have come on to discuss things like an adult, I'm not even asking for professionalism, just a little common sense, I would have been more than happy to explain my AFL and af2 affiliation. Typically I just avoid the posts from unstable people.

You've clearly showed us your an "expert" so be content with that and head back over to the playground with the other fourth graders.

[daytonadan]

See what I mean.

I'd love to see an indoor version of Frost/Nixon.

A great interviewer matching wits with an indoor football owner. It would be captivating.

BTW, It's Jerry Kurz.

[Caballo Diablo]

state who you are before you answer me son!
I highly doubt you are old enough for me to be your son.

I am Caballo Diablo, ruler of the underworld, the Devil Horse that watches over the 50 yard game seeking out the Prima Donnas that deserve to go to Hell.

Look, I just found another lost soul - :mrgreen:

I don't call you son because you shine,
I call you son because your mine !

Feel free to use that at your next fourth grade dissertation.

[daytonadan]

I don't call you son because you shine,
I call you son because your mine !



Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww...............

[Caballo Diablo]

I don't call you son because you shine,
I call you son because your mine !

Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww...............
Yeah, I was trying to see if he knew the difference between the two words and be elevated to the 5th grade.;)

[Caballo Diablo]

I have seen that ownership group badmouth their fan base constantly.
If he's ever wondered why people don't respect him, the team, the league, and basically all of 50 yard football all he needs to do is go back an reread his own posts.

You need fans to attract advertisers/sponsors. Why would a company want to pay money for sinage if no one will see it. I've seen many advertisers/sponsors that check the message boards to get the temperature of the fans. I've also seen some back away from the leagues because they didn't want their name and products associated with some of the crap that get's posted, another reason mod's are so important.

I understand some childish posters trying to have a smackdown over what football product is better, but for someone directly associated with a team to do it is pure ignorance. Yes, I come from an Arena League background and am relatively new to the "Indoor" leagues. But reading my posts you will see that I haven't pitted the two against each other and have said it's important to support them all.

When one of the league gets bad press, whether it's mismanagement, folding, or ignorant front office people it truly affects the general publics view of ALL 50 yard football. This isn't about trying to out do the teams or leagues that are your competitors, it's about trying to put out the best product you can to convince the masses it's worth checking out.

The people that come to these sites know the difference in the leagues, but they're already convinced to support it. It's the clueless masses that need convinced the sport is real and professional so they'll give it a second thought. Front offices at any business should not be publically acting a fool and showing the masses they are correct in thinking this sport is a joke.

[raidermac10]

That said look caballo you can try insult me by callin me a 5th grader and try to trivialize my point! But fact is your just another hollow [anonymous] poster that thinks he knows it all when in reallity knows nothing!!!! But please know this i forgot more about football then youl ever know as a player and an administrator!!thats just a fact!!as expected from clowns like you !!! You still stay anonymouse most delusional guys do on this forum!! When i go on here on occasion and keep reading the garbage you and exit 22 keep spewing !!someone had to take you two out of fantasy land! And to bring you to reality im sure mother goose and peter pan must miss you two by now!!!and to the oursports administrator my apology for doing so on your forum but all you need do is go 5 post ahead of mine and see mr exit 22 attacking my teams attendence the fan involvement sayin they didnt care which sir is not only so far off but blastfamy to a football purists like me ,so for that i need not apoligize fine sir!!!!that said this exit22 guy knows nothing period end of story its like listening to pewee herman tell me about football and how to run my team!!!! And that wont happen on my watch! Signed raider nation!

[Caballo Diablo]

haha, you are a funny guy. Go ahead and beat your own drum if you must, because I haven't seen ANYONE else willing to do it.

Just because you want to smack people doesn't make you smarter, really it shows less class and character.

I have been involved in real leagues, NFL and AFL, so when you move up to a real one let us know. Of course I've been involved in lesser leagues and Olympic teams also. I don't need your approval to post here or be secure in my past.

Smack away if you think your childish attitude matters to anyone besides offering up a chuckle. I don't need to give a psycho an explaination or personal information, it wouldn't change your manners or make a difference to your arrogant and totally wrong opinions.

I did notice that you didn't respond to any of the pertinent subjects. Carrying on an adult conversation about the points you disagree with would get you further than ranting from atop your soapbox.

[Caballo Diablo]

you can try insult me by callin me a 5th grader and try to trivialize my point!
haha, great comprehension there Dave. I said 4th grader, you still need to write an essay on the difference between the two words to grad-gee-ate to the 5th - lol

Trivilize your point? Have you been drinking already today?
The only point you had was you're the greatest and everyone else are idiots.
I disagreed with you, I didn't trivilaize it.;)

[fred1965]

Does the IFL Commissioner know one of his ownership groups is making both themslves and the league look bad?

[preeths]

That said look caballo you can try insult me by callin me a 5th grader and try to trivialize my point! But fact is your just another hollow [anonymous] poster that thinks he knows it all when in reallity knows nothing!!!! But please know this i forgot more about football then youl ever know as a player and an administrator!!thats just a fact!!as expected from clowns like you !!! You still stay anonymouse most delusional guys do on this forum!! When i go on here on occasion and keep reading the garbage you and exit 22 keep spewing !!someone had to take you two out of fantasy land! And to bring you to reality im sure mother goose and peter pan must miss you two by now!!!and to the oursports administrator my apology for doing so on your forum but all you need do is go 5 post ahead of mine and see mr exit 22 attacking my teams attendence the fan involvement sayin they didnt care which sir is not only so far off but blastfamy to a football purists like me ,so for that i need not apoligize fine sir!!!!that said this exit22 guy knows nothing period end of story its like listening to pewee herman tell me about football and how to run my team!!!! And that wont happen on my watch! Signed raider nation!

Take a deep breath and count to 10. Not everyone is your enemy and not everyone is attacking you and your team. Wouldn't it make more sense to ignore the critics publicly while heeding any of their criticisms that have merit? Criticism is not blasphemy. It can be helpful if you let it, immaterial if you ignore it, and damning if you react as above.

I have a general rule that the sense a post makes is inversely proportional to the number of exclamation points it contains. I can only imagine that if you had spoken the above, you would have shouted the entire thing. Not the best way to make a point.

[Caballo Diablo]

Does the IFL Commissioner know one of his ownership groups is making both themslves and the league look bad?

Probably not, maybe someone could email him the link to this thread - lol - or better yet to some of the advertisers.

We tried explaining this to Dave, you know building up a professional image instead of smacking others from the gutter. He might do better if he joined the WWF.

[daytonadan]

I think Tommy and Gary can handle this properly.

Let's see what happens.

[sportznut]

Dont see that happening

[exit322]

Unless the IFL has a hefty fine system in place...and can enforce it...there's no way to shut the Raiders up. If ridiculing their own fans and seeing how that helps attendance doesn't get them to shut up, certainly logic and reason won't.

And I'm not even sure hefty fines will, either.

[Caballo Diablo]

Like Ron "Tater Salad" White says;

If you got bad eyes, just go get some lasik.
If you're ugly or saggy, just go to a plastic surgeon.
If you're fat, get some lap band.





But you just can't fix stupid.

[Bruiser]

While I cannot find justification in Mac's method, continually calling him stupid falls into the "two wrongs don't make a right" category of behaviour that I'm sure some diabolical equine wanna-be would be first in line to deplore - if it wasn't he being one of the participants, of course.

No doubt only Port Huron has proven they could consistently whoop the Roc, so until another team can prove otherwise on a regular basis, the Raiders are undoubtedly one of the elite teams to take to an indoor football field. Of that there is currently no question and that success is an accomplishment Mac and Bob should be proud of. They have indeed built something the pundits have not.

So, I wonder if Mac's poor grammar laden rants are really a guilt ridden knee jerk reaction to the truth about fan acceptance in the Rochester area? I'm sure there are a few hundred rabid and loyal Raider fans but beyond that, what is the plan? Is that enough? Bob has stated previously that he is not exactly thrilled with handing out free tix to boost attendance numbers, so how else can you get fans hooked if winning is not the sole deciding factor?

Chicago's new Prez down at Slaughter HQ seems hellbent on televising the games on a local Comcast cable sports channel as their big push toward mass acceptance. I have to believe that the cable company didnt come to him and it's in essence programming that's priced at the three hour info-mercial rates. It's nothing new however, teams have been there, done that before. It's nice to TiVo the game for the die hards to re-run, but I have yet to see locally televised home games make a major dent in arena attendance.

So how do you do it with as little financial exposure as possible? I imagine the Roc ownership have banged their heads against the wall for the past few years contemplating just that. How does Spokane do it? They've been around a few years, they also win, AND have a relatively huge fan base. And I don't see them using strong arm tactics or promoting some type of "badass" aura about the organization like Mac appears to be trying with the Raiders. If full blown advertising blitzkreigs are cost prohibitive and the "tried and true" standard minor league tactics aren't working, at some point do you just give up and let the fans come or go as they please without any prodding? Is the "let the chips fall where they may" approach where we're at in Raider Nation? And if that's OK with the team ownership, why shouldn't it be OK with us?

[raidermac10]

that said you are the one attacking me but really the point is you are still an anonymous poster with no clue !!nfl and afl expierience!!lolol prove it !you cant even stand onn your own two feet!and say who you are!!that said your right i should not be on here torchin a fan[its fun though but come boys im human i have a little fun myself retorting your idiocy!!but really though i,ll stop and you wont hear from me again!!got to get back to reality say hi to mother goose for me!!!peace!

[raidermac10]

That said bruiser we will be fine with attendence !!i just went alittle crazy with these guys blowing smoke!!!and please dont worry about our attendence we will have 7000 people at our souixfalls opener!!know that!

[Indoorfootballguy]

Yeah and how many of those tickets will be given away for free

[expressfb]

raider, sir, you do not post as a "football purist". put your team in front of your words and set up an inter-league game with the Austin Turf Cats (SIFL). I am sure Cabollo Diablo would like a piece of that action.

[Independent]

Well IFL will start to look more like the outdoor game with the D-line stunting and moving around more. They are having their league meeting in Dallas this weekend.

[douglas mccarthy]

hey you two what are you doing here lmao
i thought you stayed on the cifl board
but these three guys we signed are better then alot of the guys in the cifl our team is looking good and i think the other teams are in trouble and we will soon see

[douglas mccarthy]

i see josh still hates the raiders he is just mad

[daytonadan]

Hi Doug, how are you doing? Say hi to Tommy -- hope he doesn't kick your a$$ at table hockey - -and Gary for me.

[exit322]

And I see the uninformed Raiders are staying that way.

You keep classy(less) guys.

[Caballo Diablo]

I love yanking on chains and poking with a stick just as much as the next person, but I'd rather not get into serious arguments with anyone about any subject. I do apologize for joining in on the school yard smackdown, typically I only do that with friends - lol

If IFL Commissioner Tommy Benizio knew that insiders and league/team personnel were conducting themselves like this is in a public forum he would surely frown on it.

Let's get back to promoting the Indoor game instead of fighting about it.
__________________

[raidermac10]

The ifl is ready to take over indoor and arena football right out of the gate !!this great group of quality owners and fantastic front office personell is second to none!!!america will soon see the new age of football indoors for a longtime to come!!!!! Nfl/ outdoor rules football indoors !!!!without the 3 men in motion linebacker cant blitz and catching a ball boucing footballs off a rediculusly out of bounds net!![instead of bumperpool its bumper football] its just going to be a game that everone loves thank god real football is back! And to exit 22 and caballo diablo!!please stop hatin!!!!im out!

[raidermac10]

The ifl is ready to take over indoor and arena football right out of the gate !!this great group of quality owners and fantastic front office personell is second to none!!!america will soon see the new age of football indoors for a longtime to come!!!!! Nfl/ outdoor rules football indoors !!!!without the 3 men in motion linebacker cant blitz and catching a ball boucing footballs off a rediculusly out of bounds net!![instead of bumperpool its bumper football] its just going to be a game that everone loves thank god real football is back! And to exit 22 and caballo diablo!!please stop hatin!!!!im out!

[raidermac10]

The ifl is ready to take over indoor and arena football right out of the gate !!this great group of quality owners and fantastic front office personell is second to none!!!america will soon see the new age of football indoors for a longtime to come!!!!! Nfl/ outdoor rules football indoors !!!!without the 3 men in motion linebacker cant blitz and catching a ball boucing footballs off a rediculusly out of bounds net!![instead of bumperpool its bumper football] its just going to be a game that everone loves thank god real football is back! And to exit 22 and caballo diablo!!please stop hatin!!!!im out!

[expressfb]

Ahh, this might be a stupid thought, but if the IFL is striving so much to have arena/indoor football look like outdoor football, why not just play outdoor football? And what's the draw for fans? They can always watch THE pro league, the NFL 24-7, 365 days a year now.

i Know this will sound weird, but there are some places in texas trying to convert these outdoor park roller hockey rinks that never caught on. starting small.

[sportznut]

If IFL Commissioner Tommy Benizio knew that insiders and league/team personnel were conducting themselves like this is in a public forum he would surely frown on it.


__________________


Good one...... wait.....:eek:

[Bruiser]

Good one...... wait.....:eek:
Wait for what? The IFL commish knows (if he's got an ounce of marketing savvy floating thru that space between his ears) that bad pub, ANY pub is good pub.

If it gets folks excited and talking, even the half dozen who frequent this board, it's a good thing.

So keep it up with the smarmy attitude and holier than thou facades and continue to yap away. It's good for the league.

[Caballo Diablo]

Wait for what? The IFL commish knows (if he's got an ounce of marketing savvy floating thru that space between his ears) that bad pub, ANY pub is good pub.

If it gets folks excited and talking, even the half dozen who frequent this board, it's a good thing.

So keep it up with the smarmy attitude and holier than thou facades and continue to yap away. It's good for the league.
Once again we disagree over business plans.
I don't believe that ANY pub is good. Possibly if you're trying to sell some bogus hype like the WWF, the XFL (how'd that work out), or a gossip rag and the media was willing to splash your name all over the place, it might help spread the word and attract a small sector of that crowd.

But minor league sports can't live on ticket sales alone, you need sponsors/advertising. Most of those people paying to put their name on sinage typically don't like it to be associated with bad pub. It's easy to go to team or league sites and find out who the larger advertisers are and pass along complaints. Just poor business practice in my opinion.

Most of the butts in seats are a wide variety of casual fans that are put off by the narrow view of throwing some crap on the wall an hope it works out well. The more butts you can put in the seats the more advertisers you can attract and the more you can charge them.

Just like on the field, it's a team sport and all of the players must contribute some positives to be successful. All team must contribute to the league in a positive manner for it to move forward as smoothly as possible. Then again, some owners think they can buy support from the financially challenged teams, and all will be forgot.

[blanketman]

Take a deep breath and count to 10. Not everyone is your enemy and not everyone is attacking you and your team. Wouldn't it make more sense to ignore the critics publicly while heeding any of their criticisms that have merit? Criticism is not blasphemy. It can be helpful if you let it, immaterial if you ignore it, and damning if you react as above.

I have a general rule that the sense a post makes is inversely proportional to the number of exclamation points it contains. I can only imagine that if you had spoken the above, you would have shouted the entire thing. Not the best way to make a point.
Lol , Preeths , the great meeting we had in Dallas proved many things. First our commish is extremely organized. Secondly, every owner is in indoor football for a different reason. Remember guys, not everyone in indoor football does it just for the business model. If that were the case,then 90 percent of all owners , including all afl teams , have failed . Typically its just the degree of losses.Actually, I was very impressed with many of the characters at our conference. Ifl should have a great season.

[blanketman]

raider, sir, you do not post as a "football purist". put your team in front of your words and set up an inter-league game with the Austin Turf Cats (SIFL). I am sure Cabollo Diablo would like a piece of that action.
Lol, The raiders, if nothing else, have never ducked a team. There was 25k on the table for both Louisiana and Sioux Falls Both declined for there own reasons. But that again is the truth. This year we play a great team in Sioux fall storm . We will all see if we were overrated or underrated, As chris berman would always say , "Thats why we play the game" lol we will see on march 19th. Im sure exit will have 2 strategies of stories depending on who wins the game. It should be at least intriging

[exit322]

Never ducked a team...except the CIFL playoffs last year. But none otherwise.

Sioux Falls is the best team in the sport until proven otherwise. If Rochester wins...and then beats them again in the playoffs (assuming they can even get that far in the playoffs), then things will change. But I'll take the four-time defending UIF champs over a team that already quit a league once before the playoffs. Sioux Falls has beaten largely the best teams in the sport (there are others that can compete with what the UIF had on-field, but not top to bottom) four years in a row. Rochester really hasn't beaten the best of anything, unless you include a Port Huron team that hadn't practiced or been paid in two months.

[raidermac10]

That said not that anything exit says means anything to anylone bieng that he is the pewee herman of football!!that said let me hold his hand and maybe use sign language to comunicate to this eeeeeeeeeeeejjjjjjjjeeeeeeettttt! [thats russian for idiot!] and explain that not only did the cifl didnt have 10 dollars to rub together but to add insult to injury had a flint no show we got mad for a day then on tuesday we called the league told them we would play and their lame answer was the league owners led by potential felon mike johnson [from saginaw and kalamazoo] said they didnt want us back!!!! Gee i wonder why!!!so needless to say we had enough with the bushness that goes on dailey in the cifl!!and just did ourselves the biggest favor in american indoor football history and joined the ifl!!!and if you want to be as shallow as this simpleton exit 222 to think that were not goin to be and indoor powerhouse who will play anyone !~!!then so be it eeeeejjjjjeeeettt!!!!but the raiders will take on all commers including a dormat afl team!! Which i will be callin to challenge them to play us, on one of our bye weeks im sure they will duck !!but know this i will do it in a heart beat with my team!!!!

[nksports]

I haven't heard this much trash being talked on these boards since the fans of San Diego and Wyoming went at it in the final season of the NIFL.

In the wonderful language of South Park, both sides have been "served," therefore "it's on."

[mrsummitcitypigskin]

Hear! Hear! Caballo Diablo. U couldn't be more right about just wanting to go
see some football. To hell with all this politics, money mashing and here-say.

[Bruiser]

U couldn't be more right about just wanting to go
see some football. To hell with all this politics, money mashing and here-say.
Then places like this wouldn't exist. People love conflict and drama. Especially when it comes to their entertainment. It sells product. And even more so when people are being forced towards a politically correct conciousness in the real world.

Just football? You REALLY want to kill this indoor thing off don't you? Then go ahead and pull the cheap trinket giveways, the loud music, dancing girls, internet message board drama, and send the players directly to the locker rooms after game's end. Mission accomplished. Indoor football is dead. You just increased the rank and file of the WWE from March to July. Vince McMahon thanks you.

[Bruiser]

Once again we disagree over business plans.
I don't believe that ANY pub is good. Possibly if you're trying to sell some bogus hype like the WWF, the XFL (how'd that work out), or a gossip rag and the media was willing to splash your name all over the place, it might help spread the word and attract a small sector of that crowd.

But minor league sports can't live on ticket sales alone, you need sponsors/advertising. Most of those people paying to put their name on sinage typically don't like it to be associated with bad pub. It's easy to go to team or league sites and find out who the larger advertisers are and pass along complaints. Just poor business practice in my opinion.

Most of the butts in seats are a wide variety of casual fans that are put off by the narrow view of throwing some crap on the wall an hope it works out well. The more butts you can put in the seats the more advertisers you can attract and the more you can charge them.

Just like on the field, it's a team sport and all of the players must contribute some positives to be successful. All team must contribute to the league in a positive manner for it to move forward as smoothly as possible. Then again, some owners think they can buy support from the financially challenged teams, and all will be forgot.

Didn't Bob make himself clear? He simply wants to barnstorm the country kicking ass with his team and destroying those bold enough to take the field. Why do you continue to presume he wants what YOU want? Simply annointing yourself as the mouthpiece for "a wide variety of casual fans" isn't going to make the indoor football industry stand up and make sweeping changes to chase that "5th major sport" title (how'd that work out for the AFL?)

Then you proceed to cry for positive contributions towards success, yet chide the Roc organization for creating financial stability in these trying times. They saved a major percentage of the IFL's ass fercrissakes. Geesh, can't win for trying with some people.

As for sponsors, most bartering is done with products/services, not cash. So, just as teams are willing to get their names out there ANYWAY THEY CAN so are the sponsors. I highly doubt businesses give a hoot about a dozen eyeballs on a MB witnessing a tirade from a team's minority owner that is directed towards a few malcontent posters when sponsors can get their product into the hands (or eyes) of a few thousand people going thru an arena turnstyle.

Don't you get it? Collectively, most of us making up the indoor/arena football world ARE content with the status quo. Deal with it.

[exit322]

Then you proceed to cry for positive contributions towards success, yet chide the Roc organization for creating financial stability in these trying times. They saved a major percentage of the IFL's ass fercrissakes. Geesh, can't win for trying with some people.

This is true. I do have to wonder if the Raiders paid for Sag/Mus/Mar's trip to Dallas on top of their league fees and God knows how many of their league dues...like I said before, the IFL has two groups that basically own four teams. That's never ended well before, but I'm at least certain the Rochester group will have enough money to keep funnelling into four teams that may collectively draw as well as Chicago. The other group...not so sure, but we'll see.

[raidermac10]

Whats goin to sell indoor football to the masses is sizzle!!!your in the right direction!!!afl was on the right track but had an awful business model we the "ifl" are goin to do this right as you,ll be seeing in the comming months!!!! Must be football season!

[blanketman]

This is true. I do have to wonder if the Raiders paid for Sag/Mus/Mar's trip to Dallas on top of their league fees and God knows how many of their league dues...like I said before, the IFL has two groups that basically own four teams. That's never ended well before, but I'm at least certain the Rochester group will have enough money to keep funnelling into four teams that may collectively draw as well as Chicago. The other group...not so sure, but we'll see.

Mike Trumbull of saginaw ,with estaban, own an operate their own team. I have no affiliation with them in the financial aspect. Rochester is our only financial concern. Bruiser, thanks for bringing a little sanity to this board. lol Maryland and Muskegon are also not involved with Rochester.

[Caballo Diablo]

Didn't Bob make himself clear? He simply wants to barnstorm the country kicking ass with his team and destroying those bold enough to take the field. Why do you continue to presume he wants what YOU want? Simply annointing yourself as the mouthpiece for "a wide variety of casual fans" isn't going to make the indoor football industry stand up and make sweeping changes to chase that "5th major sport" title (how'd that work out for the AFL?)
You've either lost your mind, or possibly never had one. You chase the sport with your dumb sense of humor and bad mouth everyone. The Rush disowned you, then the AFLMB banned you - AGAIN. Yet you never seem to really undestand how a conversation works, it's not all about one liners and trying to pretend you're cute.

Just because someone says something doesn't mean the rest of the world agrees with it, and most can discuss it without being an @$$. I don't presume what he or you want, and honestly don't care.

You've really been drinking too heavy if you think I'm a casual fan or wanting the Indoor sport to chase the 5th major league status. We've had this discussin many times over the years. Arena and Indoor are niche sports, and trying to pretend otherwise is a huge mistake. That doesn't mean you should be content with the status quo.

If you believe everything is perfect and postive tweaks and changes can't be done, whether it's in the front office or on the field you need to sober up. This is true in most all things in life, not just the sport at hand. You talk big but it's all just rhetoric.


Don't you get it? Collectively, most of us making up the indoor/arena football world ARE content with the status quo. Deal with it.
Now you can speak for all of the owners and investors - lol - you are funny.
I've been on an advisory board and met with many of them about the current and future of the sport. The ones that are content with current circumstance are the ones always left behind.

You seem to enjoy mingling with the fools and court jesters - haha

[chardale]

That one, out does me,,,,,,,,,,,,,,LMAO

[blanketman]

You've either lost your mind, or possibly never had one. You chase the sport with your dumb sense of humor and bad mouth everyone. The Rush disowned you, then the AFLMB banned you - AGAIN. Yet you never seem to really undestand how a conversation works, it's not all about one liners and trying to pretend you're cute.

Just because someone says something doesn't mean the rest of the world agrees with it, and most can discuss it without being an @$$. I don't presume what he or you want, and honestly don't care.

You've really been drinking too heavy if you think I'm a casual fan or wanting the Indoor sport to chase the 5th major league status. We've had this discussin many times over the years. Arena and Indoor are niche sports, and trying to pretend otherwise is a huge mistake. That doesn't mean you should be content with the status quo.

If you believe everything is perfect and postive tweaks and changes can't be done, whether it's in the front office or on the field you need to sober up. This is true in most all things in life, not just the sport at hand. You talk big but it's all just rhetoric.


Now you can speak for all of the owners and investors - lol - you are funny.
I've been on an advisory board and met with many of them about the current and future of the sport. The ones that are content with current circumstance are the ones always left behind.

You seem to enjoy mingling with the fools and court jesters - haha

So who are you Caballo? Im Bob from the raiders who are you? Obviously, you have the credentials tell us .Dont insult anymore, maybe the esteemed gentleman can tell us his name. Will you or will you continue to insult everyone ?

[Bruiser]

That one, out does me,,,,,,,,,,,,,,LMAO
Some folks just can't handle the truth and it irks them to no end when somone calls them on it. Typical response from someone that likes to dish it but can't take it.

Hey, welcome back, only a few days this time?

[Bruiser]

So who are you Caballo?
Nobody. He likes to pretend he's rubbing elbows with those who matter, but it's all a cyberspace fantasy. Typical wanna-be who can toss his BS around but goes bananas when called on it. I believe the last I heard he was launching another multi-bazillion dollar bubble gum card venture in his parent's basement. I wonder if he and Mac are related?

[Caballo Diablo]

Dont insult anymore,
That is cute, I learned that from reading all of you guys post.
And who was the one that came into the the thread with veins bulging and spewing hate? I think it was the bald one from raider nation.

I guess this is where the front office people hang out and sass each other.

Have you noticed, a small group of posters here have made a living from insulting others. How come when they do it, it's all good, but if someone replies it's an insult? - hahaha

Just like Bruiser, he likes to say people can dish it out but not take it, yet that's been his M.O. for years. He prides himslef on tongue & cheek sarcasm and then cries foul when poked back. He has difficulty with serious or rational conversations, I think he works at "Insults R Us." We've gone back and forth for years and I'm quite sure he doesn't need you coming to his rescue.

Me, I've said it for years on many forums, I'm just an average guy that loves the 50 yard game. I didn't realize it was required to fall in line and believe all the BS put out. I'm a believer there's a fine line between arrogance and ignorance.

It's unbelieveable how few there seem to be that can actually carry on a conversation and debate opinion instead of just telling people they're full of crap. It is good cheap entertainment, but leaves an insecure feeling about the future of the sport with so many of the people living in a fantasy world.

[Bruiser]

The Rush disowned you, then the AFLMB banned you - AGAIN.
Actually I disowned them, they called me every season wanting me back. And to be nice I did bless them with my presence a few times a year, when the Slaughter werent playing of course. Hell they even call me onto the field to play their intermission games, and waive to the minions. I'm an AFL celeb fercrissakes. Ask Mike171 he's a witness. Honest injun. See? I can brag about stuff just like you. BTW, the AFLMB is littered with nitwits. They expect me to believe ol' Uncle Jer monitors the boards and has people kicked off like he's got nothing better to do. The truth is a little power just got to some peon's head. The AFL has a habit of surrounding themselves with incompetent people that ruin a good thing, my banishment is simply another in a long line of errors in judgement.


trying to pretend you're cute.
Mom told me I was cute as a button back in 1963. Nothing has changed,


You seem to enjoy mingling with the fools and court jesters - haha
Obviously. You keep coming back for more,

[Caballo Diablo]

Nobody. He likes to pretend he's rubbing elbows with those who matter, but it's all a cyberspace fantasy. Typical wanna-be who can toss his BS around but goes bananas when called on it. I believe the last I heard he was launching another multi-bazillion dollar bubble gum card venture in his parent's basement. I wonder if he and Mac are related?
HEY! Bob told us no more insults! lol

I've always claimed to be a nobody, and I can live with that so what's your point Big Guy?

Bruiser knows who I was rubbing elbows with and he's just jealous the Rush didn't love him anymore, it's ok Big Guy, they won't be locking you out this season. Bananas, surely you jest, go ahead and split it before throwing on the ice cream. (you've got to throw some of the dumb jokes in if you want to keep his attention, he doesn't focus well).

There you go again with the parents, last time you tried to write it off as you didn't know. Now that it's been discussed on a couple of forums you're quite aware both of my parents have moved to heaven and one was very recent.
Not getting upset, just showing your frame of mind, classless.

I love it when a plan comes together - haha
You can't get this type of entertainment in the arena.

[Caballo Diablo]

They expect me to believe ol' Uncle Jer monitors the boards and has people kicked off like he's got nothing better to do.
Are you still upset the bearded one banned you and your brother malenurse, that's what Jerry calls him you know. - lol
He does read the boards, and we've discussed it together in person.
If you keep being mean I might, errr I mean he might never let you back.:o

[Bruiser]

CD, you're silly. I have NEVER had any delusion that indoor/arena warranted serious debate or conversation. It's frickin' indoor football fercrissakes. I mean really, in the immortal words of Scott Farkas, "Cry baby,cry" why dontcha?

[Bruiser]

HEY! Bob told us no more insults! lol

I've always claimed to be a nobody, and I can live with that so what's your point Big Guy?

Bruiser knows who I was rubbing elbows with and he's just jealous the Rush didn't love him anymore, it's ok Big Guy, they won't be locking you out this season. Bananas, surely you jest, go ahead and split it before throwing on the ice cream. (you've got to throw some of the dumb jokes in if you want to keep his attention, he doesn't focus well).

There you go again with the parents, last time you tried to write it off as you didn't know. Now that it's been discussed on a couple of forums you're quite aware both of my parents have moved to heaven and one was very recent.
Not getting upset, just showing your frame of mind, classless.

I love it when a plan comes together - haha
You can't get this type of entertainment in the arena.
Insults? "Wanna-be" too harsh for ya?

I didnt think the Rush ever loved me, but they sure seemed to want my credit card # every year.

Both of them? You never told me that. Lie by you. But that still doesnt preclude you from occupying their basement. You may have been a sensitive child but good god man get over it.

You got that, the free entertainment that is, I should be charging admission. Paul? You want to start working on that?

[Bruiser]

Are you still upset the bearded one banned you and your brother malenurse, that's what Jerry calls him you know. - lol
Piggy got booted again too? So that makes you the only one left on there posting? ... to yourself? Dammit, now I have to work on Nan so I can get back on and booted again. I'll be damned if Pig gets booted more times than I do. Better hurry though, no telling when that MB goes down for good.

He does read the boards, and we've discussed it together in person.
If you keep being mean I might, errr I mean he might never let you back.:o
I must say I find you hard to believe. I cannot fathom that the Prez of the af2 is so threatened by myself and an avatar supporting the CIFL that he would resort to the pettiness that exists on the AFL board. Just doesn't make sense. The big bad af2 threatened by the CIFL. That's the reason I was given you know, "Change your CIFL avatar or else!" They were dumb enough to beg me back and I again refused to change my allegiance. Some peon took that as a personal slight and pulled the plug. While you may continue to think you have some worth to these people, I know there are more pressing issues to deal with than me or even Pig. I am flattered though.

[chardale]

Only 7 days, probably because I mentioned the size of it, but it was ok to call me a wife beater and commit a crime, yes I did deserve to get a vacation but shouldn't the other one get it also for a personal attact? Favortism or what< I see how they roll. No biggie, Going to stir up some more people very soon. Just waiting for the right time. And oh yea, I can take it all the time IF i am wrong but show me 1 time when I didnt tell the truth. Come on, Milwaukee not paying players, CIFL stuff, teams not paying dues or fee's to get in, I could go on but hey enough for now. Just happy to be back on your screen. Till later, oh yea, answer me this, why didnt JAMIE get a vacation for the attack, for saying I commited a crime, thats personal. Cause it's the 'GOOD OLE BOY CLUB', thats why.

[ROCstar15]

hello all, i actually just joined this network and am a big fan of all minor league/independent sports, mostly basketball and indoor football.

as you can see from my nickname, I hail from rochester, ny and therefore, am a huge fan of the PBL razorsharks and something of a fan with the raiders (which is to say, i follow the team a little, though i have never gone to a game).

that being said, assuming that "raidermac" is REALLY the raiders owner, i have lost a lot of respect for him and the team. he's actually giving my city a bad name...

Rochester is a great minor league town and yes, the raiders are pretty talented. that said, we are not all as obnoxious as raidermac is portraying on this forum. so i apologize for all of us. that is all...

[Bruiser]

hello all, i actually just joined this network and am a big fan of all minor league/independent sports, mostly basketball and indoor football.

ROCstar, ha that's a good one. U should lend it to one of the Rai-duhs players. But it's obvious you havent visited the basketball boards here. They are chock full of horror stories, cancelled games and schedules written on TP for ease of discarding. I cant say for sure if owners get up in each others or fan's faces over there, but if this embarasses you, stay away fom there.

[ROCstar15]

go ahead, get the licks in. no, i havent posted on any of those forums yet (note the "2 posts" in the border) but ive been reading them for years now, specifically the ABA one. believe me, though im a rookie here, i know my stuff about this minor league game.

listen, i dont know mccarthy as a man so i sorta do feel bad raggin on him so badly, but i just couldnt sit back and let my city get torn apart. do i agree with him that the raiders can compete with the "indoor" teams and possibly not be embarrassed by the "arena" teams? yes. do i like how he goes about promoting his business? no, i do not.

dont get it twisted: im young (college) and new here (second ever post). but im not naive, and i look forward to productive posting for a while to come

[Bruiser]

no, i havent posted on any of those forums yet (note the "2 posts" in the border) but ive been reading them for years now, specifically the ABA one. believe me, though im a rookie here, i know my stuff about this minor league game.

OK, then you know how it goes. So one Roc minor league owner goes ballistic. It's not like you havent read something similar around here b4. Geez a lot of sensitivity lately, are the mangina's on the rag or something?

[ROCstar15]

sorry if i came off as a b!tch - it wasnt my intention... yeah we know a bit about crazy owners here in Rochester... but at the same time, we know a bit about success too so maybe it goes hand in hand with regards to minor league sports i dunno.

and for the future, this goes to everyone: i can take an insult like a champ (and dish em back out just as well) so if u disagree with my opinions, send it right back and its cool haha. nothing personal, right?

[Bruiser]

its cool haha. nothing personal, right?
You betcha. How can it be personal anyway? Most don't know one another here and hide behind a screen name for anonymity.

[daytonadan]

You betcha. How can it be personal anyway? Most don't know one another here and hide behind a screen name for anonymity.

The entertainment factor here has been AMAZING lately. It's a better show than Steelers-Cardinals will be, except of course for Springsteen at halftime.

[raidermac10]

And to rocstar15 welcome to the forum and sorry you had to hear me rant but the truth is i just registered on this board a week ago!!! And i been watchin a certain few of these guys that just blow smopke and bad mouth us ,and yes i did ragg on a couple of dudes here !!!but it was cause they were badmothing my team and our fans and spiting a bunch of untruths they just needed to be corrected im all good now!raiders 09

[raidermac10]

These guys are right i am spelling like a 5th grader!!to much of a hurry all the time! Peace

[Caballo Diablo]

And i been watchin a certain few of these guys that just blow smopke and bad mouth us ,and yes i did ragg on a couple of dudes here !!!but it was cause they were badmothing my team and our fans and spiting a bunch of untruths they just needed to be corrected im all good now!raiders 09
I disagree, I didn't mention you, your team, or front office and you jumped on me with both feet. Luckily you've got bad balance and fell down.;)

My conversation didn't point in your direction until you blew a gasket.

[raidermac10]

That said to you i will formally apologize!!! Your views on indoor talent bieng way behind the afl talent were way off and i dont think you still get it but thats ok not many on this board do!! But i will be out to prove just that in these upcomming months!!!alot of it has to do with coaching and of course having good players!!!but no more talk we will just produce !!!!good luck in 2009 with your austin turfcats! By the way you still havent come out of the closet yet!!!so im guessing your just a fan with alot of time!!! More power to you brother !!must be football season

[sportznut]

I have to agree the talent is behind the AFL!

If not, then why were the Intense Football League AND the United Indoor Football League saying their leagues were just a stepping stone for their players to get film or experience to .... Move up to the AFL? Nothing has changed in the last 4 months, the players are the same, the coaches are the same. Just by 17 teams all voting to merge into 1 league, their players automatically become better?

"Waiter, I want 2 of what he is drinking"

[Caballo Diablo]

Just by 17 teams all voting to merge into 1 league, their players automatically become better?


You know what they say, life is 10% skill and 90% attitude.:-D

[Caballo Diablo]

That said to you i will formally apologize!!!
That is much appreciated, Thank You - I accept.

Your views on indoor talent bieng way behind the afl talent were way off and i dont think you still get it but thats ok not many on this board do!! But i will be out to prove just that in these upcomming months!!!alot of it has to do with coaching and of course having good players!!!
As I've said, I come from the Arena game and am new to the Indoor game.
There's a big difference between the af2 and the AFL. Yes, there are some very talented players in the af2, but the talent isn't as high team/roster wide as the AFL.

I've been talking good about the IFL ever since the merger, two of the better leagues uniting hopefully will create some great football and grow the market.
Travel could be one of the negatives versus a regional league but can be overcome.

Don't hate me for thinking the AFL had better talent, welcome me in and prove me wrong. Nothing would make me happier than all of the leagues being successful.


good luck in 2009 with your austin turfcats! By the way you still havent come out of the closet yet!!!so im guessing your just a fan with alot of time!!! More power to you brother !!must be football season
Thanks, I'm looking forward to an exciting inaugrual season.

Not hiding in the closet - haha - many over in the Arena world know who I am as I was very active over there. As for the SIFL, yes I'm just a fan waiting out the struggling economy with everyone else. I'll be lurking in the underbrush with the rest of the fans feeling out the Indoor game and hopefully having a blast for less money - lol

[blanketman]

That is much appreciated, Thank You - I accept.

As I've said, I come from the Arena game and am new to the Indoor game.
There's a big difference between the af2 and the AFL. Yes, there are some very talented players in the af2, but the talent isn't as high team/roster wide as the AFL.

I've been talking good about the IFL ever since the merger, two of the better leagues uniting hopefully will create some great football and grow the market.
Travel could be one of the negatives versus a regional league but can be overcome.

Don't hate me for thinking the AFL had better talent, welcome me in and prove me wrong. Nothing would make me happier than all of the leagues being successful.


Of course the afl has better talent. I went to a Chicago Rush game last year.They were excellent;however,The avengers were not. caballo I know you were an Austin Wrangler fan. Rob Schroeder was on our team in 2006.He became a solid starter for austin I believe;ironically, he was not in our starting lineup. Not because he couldnt have ;however, he did not stick out amongst the other players. It was close but he was first off the bench.Some teams in the "lower leagues" have players that could easily play arena. Many of their reasons for not choosing "fulltime football" can be due to great local jobs they may have in their respected towns. Joe Donnelly is one such guy we have for the raiders.He destroys guys . He started 4 years at syracuse when they were good 6 years ago. He makes 100k a year for his company. He wont jump ship unless he gets another chance at the nfl;period.Thats the same reason why Michna is playing for Slaughter;great local job.

[exit322]

Mom told me I was cute as a button back in 1963. Nothing has changed,

Was she blind?

[Caballo Diablo]

Of course the afl has better talent. I went to a Chicago Rush game last year.They were excellent;however,The avengers were not. caballo I know you were an Austin Wrangler fan. Rob Schroeder was on our team in 2006.He became a solid starter for austin I believe;ironically, he was not in our starting lineup. Not because he couldnt have ;however, he did not stick out amongst the other players. It was close but he was first off the bench.Some teams in the "lower leagues" have players that could easily play arena. Many of their reasons for not choosing "fulltime football" can be due to great local jobs they may have in their respected towns. Joe Donnelly is one such guy we have for the raiders.He destroys guys . He started 4 years at syracuse when they were good 6 years ago. He makes 100k a year for his company. He wont jump ship unless he gets another chance at the nfl;period.Thats the same reason why Michna is playing for Slaughter;great local job.
We agree then, the "lower leagues" (not my phrrase mac - lol), and I've said it before, have some great talent - just not roster wide like the the AFL.
Same can be said for the CFL, some great players but team wise they can't compete with the NFL.

Contrary to what some may think, this isn't a slam. Just because someone has a positive comment about a different league it doesn't mean they're hating on the others. You've listed some reason players are in certain leagues or on certain teams, there are many other. I've often wondered how all the leagues find these guys willing to play for peanuts, many just love playing and it's more of their hobby as they persue their life in a more stable financial enviroment/career.

Rob S. was a great guy, kind of quiet, We would go out to dinner as a group and most of the time he was the one in the corner just watching and listening as some of the other were rather rambunctious- lol - he was a different person on and off the field. Some coaches felt that was one thing that hurt his play, the lack of a nasty attitude.

[douglas mccarthy]

i think i smell football season comming around the bend!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Bruiser]

i think i smell football season comming arounbd the bend!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Nah, more like Dave just farted.
You know those buritos for lunch were a bad idea. ;)

[Bruiser]

Was she blind?
Nope, nor deaf or dumb. Just a lot of good taste and knowing when the goods were the real deal.

Heck I wasn't even as purty as I am now. :)

You know I've said this so often b4, but it is true, "don't hate on me 'cause I'm beautiful."