The North American Football League(NAFL)

[Henry West]

Have everyone heard of this semi-pro football league the NAFL? I would like to suggest this league should be added to the Football Section
on the OSC site.

Here's the address for the NAFL site.

http://www.nafl.org

[Jamie]

In general, Paul only includes professional leagues on OSC, not semi-pro.

If you have specific feedback for him about the site, you can post it here:

http://oursportscentral.com/about/contact/

[indoor fan]

Why would Paul ist the NAFL? It's just a semi pro league, like the other 50 semi pro leagues.

[Paul S]

I'd agree with indoor fan. Paul should steer very clear of these semi-pro (read beer leagues) leagues that have one or two guys who get 50 bucks a game and the rest are paying to play.

The Regional Football League with Major Harris at QB and the highest paid player didn;t deserve its name on here and neither does the NAFL. I'm sure its great football and I'm sure the guys are busting their proverbial a55es but unless their in Canada or Europe it isn't minor league outdoor football

[SignGuyDino]

I have to agree, and I run the Asheville Grizzlies website, www.ashevillegrizzlies.com

The NAFL is calling itself "minor league football" on their websites but until they can exercise better clout in getting better field conditions, they're at best semipro for now.

[minnfan]

I have to agree, and I run the Asheville Grizzlies website, www.ashevillegrizzlies.com

The NAFL is calling itself "minor league football" on their websites but until they can exercise better clout in getting better field conditions, they're at best semipro for now.


That doesn't stop them from placing troll posts all over these boards though. Time after time after time after time. And mostly the same moron using different names.

Isn't there a sandlot football board somewhere they can use?

[JB]

I checked out the NAFL.org website and I was impressed by how well thought out and organized they are. At this point they're at the same stage stage Arena ball was 15 years ago but they have some big names on their staff and I think there is an absolute market for an outdoor winter football league.

Let me ask a question,

The Top Four football leagues?

1. NFL
2. CFL
3. Arena Football League
4. NFL Europe

... would you guys say thats the correct order in terms of strength and popularity and is their any another leagues other than these four?

Also, what differentiates between Semi-pro and Minor League? Was the XFL considered minor league?

Any links are appreciated. Thanks

[JB]

[/quote]It's just a semi pro league, like the other 50 semi pro leagues.[quote]

One more thing, I think you made a great point about the NAFL being just another one of the 50 semi-pro leagues around the country, but I think thats where they're different in that they're trying to organize all these scattered leagues into one well organized league. Maybe then we'll be able to have quality outdoor football all year round.

[indoor fan]

nice try. but 85% of NAFL teams are sandlot semipro teams playing on JV high school fields, plus they play in the summer/fall.

how much do NAFL players get paid? how much insurance do they get? how much travel is paid for?

the answers are all the same: ZERO

Go back to the semi pro boards, please.

[JB]

nice try. but 85% of NAFL teams are sandlot semipro teams playing on JV high school fields, plus they play in the summer/fall.

how much do NAFL players get paid? how much insurance do they get? how much travel is paid for?

the answers are all the same: ZERO

Go back to the semi pro boards, please.

Hey sorry about that, looks like I stumbled onto something here. I didn't mean to get anyone p*ssed-off, but I really did just find out about that league just four days ago. I found out from the guy that originally posted this thread. Once I looked at their website, one thing lead to another and I started looking into this semi-pro circuit. I have been on the internet since'97 and not once have I ever looked into semi pro, until this weekend. I have always been an NFL fan, since '67, and I was a big fan of the XFL. Since its demise I've been hoping some new league would start up for the winter/spring time. I'm gathering from the replies on this board that semi-pro is not really respected as a legitimate league. I'm guessing it's because the level of play is not that good and/or because of a general lack of organiztion. Can anyone tell me what the salaries are for the various leagues starting with the NFL and on down or if there's a website that list salaries? Also, does anyone know of a website that list tv ratings history for all major sports. I have always heard that the XFL did much better ratings wise than many sports including golf, hockey, CFL and women's basketball. Would like to know if that was true. Also, how is Arena ball doing in the ratings? I have tried to watch it and get into it, but I just can't get interested in it. Not yet anyway. I'll give it another shot this year, maybe this will be the year. It looks like the kind of sport that would be a lot of fun if you attend the actual games, but it just doesn't translate on tv, for me anyway. I still think there's a definite market for an outdoor football winter league. Time will tell.

Thanks!

[statman77]

The NAFL and MLFA are minor football leagues but need surports and sponsers.

[Don Wadewitz]

All right, I'm a little confused by some responses here. Your website covers the WPFL, yet the NAFL/MCFL are beer-drinking leagues where no one gets paid and you believe that insurance and travel are not covered?

Generalizations will always make you look like an uninformed person. The team that I volunteer for pays for all travel, carries insurance, broadcasts their games and draws an average of 3,000 fans with spikes up to 6,000 for big rivalry games. In addition players are given a small meal stipend. Members of NAFL teams have gone on to the NIFL, AFL, AFL2 and the NFL and many have also come from these leagues and use it as an opportunity to stay in shape.

Yes, there are some less than desirable teams in the leagues. There are an equal or greater number of excellent organizations. I just don't understand why you cover the Frontier League and WPFL but not the NAFL and I haven't heard a good reason yet. It almost sounds like you have a chip on your shoulder for some reason.

I would equate the lesser teams of the NAFL to at least Frontier League baseball and the upper echelon teams to AA or AAA ball. Many of these teams are great civic organizations that assist with charities and are visible to the public. It just doesn't make sense to me. There must be another reason. If there is one that you don't want to make public, please PM or e-mail me.

I'm not a homer for the NAFL but I do volunteer with a NAFL team because I want to help out a civic organization and gain valuable skills in media relations and radio play-by-play. The Raiders afford me that opportunity.

Thanks,

Don

[indoor fan]

:shock: Very simply, the NAFL is just a semi pro league, like the other 50 semi pro leagues. There are a few other sites for recreational semi pro leagues.


Only professional leagues should be mentioned here.

[Don Wadewitz]

While your answer still didn't answer the answer (then how is the WPFL listed), Paul answered the question via e-mail sufficiently. I think some of the legitimate semi-pro leagues get a bad rap from the beer ones personally. There are different levels of semi-pro football leagues just like there are different levels of baseball. I mean, I consider Frontier League to be a joke and would rather do play-by-play for a semi-pro football team in a quality league.

[indoor fan]

The fact is that 85% of NAFL teams charge players to pay, don't have matching uniforms and play on high school practice fields. Don't let a website fool you. :shock:

[Don Wadewitz]

The fact is that I have never witnessed what you mention. Now, I fully admit that I've only seen a few dozen minor league football games, but I have never seen a team with mis-matched uniforms.

I can't argue the pay to play. All I know is what one team does and that is not the case with the team I do pxp for.

[indoor fan]

:shock: Yes, there are some good NAFL/semi pro organizations out there, but most teams at this level are recreation type teams that are really no different than the local bowling and softball leagues. They deserve no mention with "professional sports"

A professional league is one that has a base salary for all players, paid insurance and travel, and all equipment is provided. Since the NFL/AFL merger, there have only been a few United States professional outdoor football leagues:

WFL
USFL
WLAF
CFL-USA
RFL
SFL
XFL

The NAFL or any other semi pro league should not be mentioned in the same sentence as these leagues.

[Shootmaster_44]

Since the NFL/AFL merger, there have only been a few United States professional outdoor football leagues:

WFL
USFL
WLAF
CFL-USA
RFL
SFL
XFL



This is way off-topic but, two of these leagues I don't recognize. What is the RFL and the SFL? When did they exist and where? One other nagging question I had, did Vince McMahon ever say what, if anything, XFL stood for? Or was it like the ECHL where that is all it is and nothing more?

(By the way I know the ECHL used to stand for the East Coast Hockey League. But, after they merged with the WCHL, it discontinued being an acronym and just became its official name. Rightly so, since they no longer were just the EAST COAST Hockey League.)

[RMc]

What is the RFL and the SFL? When did they exist and where?

Wannabe spring leagues that existed in 1999 and 2000; died due to lack of attendance and the forming of the XFL:

http://www.geocities.com/cmccollum_2000/rfl_tribute/

http://www.geocities.com/cmccollum_2000/sfl_tribute/news.html

One other nagging question I had, did Vince McMahon ever say what, if anything, XFL stood for?

Not much. :roll:

[run to win]

85% of NAFL teams charge players to pay
True. Probably more than 85%. Football is much more expensive than most other sports.

85% of NAFL teams don't have matching uniforms
Not true.

85% of NAFL teams play on high school practice fields.
Not true. Most teams rent football stadiums, and the only available stadiums belong the high schools and colleges. Your local park may have a basketball court, baseball diamond, and soccer field - but it probably doesn't have a football stadium. Teams in my area pay between $500 to $1500 per game to rent stadiums, plus an additional $500 for officials.

What you call "semi-pro" should really be called "adult amateur" or "full contact rec-league". Most teams are non-profit organizations that suck the money and life out of the men who operate them.

Don't let a website fool you. :shock:
Good advice.

[DayWar05]

I thought XFL stood for Xtreme Football League. I'm sure I heard that more than once. :?:

[patmc16]

When the league was active, and the website was as well, it specifically said on the league website that XFL did not stand for Xtreme Football League. If I remember correctly it did not stand for anything, kinda like the league it represented! :lol: XFL were not initials, just 3 letters.

[johnf76]

There was a league called "Xtreme Football League", with the initials XFL, but it predated McMahon!

Al Clarkson (current af2 and ECHL owner in Huntsville, AL), had organized most of the rest of his fellow ECHL owners to form an indoor football league named the XFL (this was just before the af2 started playing).

The AFL came to Clarkson, since they needed to build a strong base in the South before expanding (for those you who don't remember, that level was somewhat crowded, with the IPFL and old IFL already in existance). After some intense negotiating, and some breaks in franchise fees and other goodies, the ECHL guys decided to go with the AFL's new minor league, af2.

McMahon wanted the intials, so he went to Clarkson and negotiated a deal (I think it came out to 40k or so compensation per team, if I remember correctly) for the copywrited league name. Vince never used the full title, though...I'm not sure why, perhaps it was a compensation thing.

John F.
www.arenafan.com

[MLFA]

The fact is that 85% of NAFL teams charge players to pay, don't have matching uniforms and play on high school practice fields. Don't let a website fool you. :shock:


I know this is last year news (history) but I would like to add this. Yes most teams have player fees, on the other hand the indoor leagues (smaller ones) do hold tryouts which cost just as much.

Most teams play on high school and college fields, indoor play on high school and city basketball courts. This is same difference, there is not one indoor team that has build their own stadium. They are just like the outdoor teams and pay to use a field.

There are teams that don't have matching uniforms (most teams do), but I feel that is a reflection of the league they play in.

Indoor and outdoor are two different games and both deserve their own respect. indoor fan you sound like a NFL fan about 50 some years ago talking about the AFL. We just should respect and support each other.

One last thing to throw out, the outdoor teams have a large number of indoor players on their rosters. The players come out after the indoor seasons are over. Yes there are rules stating that a player can't be on another roster but players find ways around that. Is a player better and more professional when he plays indoors and is paid a couple hundred dollars. Is that same players playing outdoors any less of a player. No I don't think so, it actually enhances his game I think.

Again Indoor and outdoor are two different games and both deserve their own respect. We just should respect and support each other.

sorry if this was old news but felt I should add my two cents

[Houston Caldwell]

I am both a frequent contributor to this board and (a development of the last 45 days) an ownership group member and COO of an NAFL Football Team (The Nashville Storm). We are very Racine Raider-like ON the football field (Final Four playoff team out of 105 teams in 2004, aggregate 2003-2004 record of 23-4), and we are concentrating our efforts on becoming more Racine Raider-like OFF the field. I have chosen NOT to lobby Paul Reeths about NAFL or MLFA coverage, not because the organizations we have and we play against are not good, but because the sheer volume and often uneven quality of minor league outdoor football would create a "slippery slope" for Paul; we have the largest league, but there are many such leagues in America with organizations that have merit (or lack thereof). Paul already has a big job; I'm not out to make it unmanageable.
The Women Paul covers really have similar leagues, but on the Women's side, they represent the highest level of play, and this makes a difference.
So let me tell you about us and where we see ourselves and our direct competitors.
Most of the players on our team played college football, and due to our record and quality, some are prospects for higher levels of football. THE NAFL IS NOT A BEER LEAGUE.
What we are, IMO, is the eqivalent of Class A Baseball (Titans being major league, AFL Kats being AAA, AF2/Indoor being AA). I think that is a fair description of our play and organizational level.
While OSC coverage is not sought or feasible; I think we have our merits; for a very low price (Our Season Passes are $30.00), a fan can come watch good post-college players play football in a professionally run environment, with organized tailgates prior to the game and after-parties after at a nice club. We don't pretend to be the Titans or Kats, but we have our niche for good football fans, and it is a worthwhile one. We have our place, and we will give fans a good experience for their money.
As an organization, it is our philosophy to enhance our players' chances to "move up" in every possible way. We believe that while this will cause us to lose some players, better athletes will seek us out because of this philosophy. My co-owner and our Head Coach is a former NFL player who knows what it takes to get there. We also work hard at partnering with High School, Middle School, and Youth Sports in our area to mutual benefit.
Hope we get to see all of you sometime.

[MLFA]

Very well said Mr. Caldwell, very well said.

[indoor fan]

Bottom line. If there is not a league minimum salary, paid insurance and travel, then it is NOT professional and should be mentioned with other adult softball leagues. Bottom line.

[Houston Caldwell]

Didn't know we were talking about softball---- thought it was FOOTBALL we were talking about.
We've got a tryout this Saturday if you want to suit up.

[pred]

Have to reply to some of these pretty dumb posts that I've just read. First off I would not consider the NAFL a "Semi-Pro" league. I do consider every other football league minus the NFL "Semi-Pro" I was just reading a post the other day and it reminded of what the term "Semi-Pro" really means and that is "an athlete who plays for pay on a part-time basis" Now that's means every other football league except the NFL is "semi-pro" Do you really think these bush indoor leagues like the NIFL or even some AF2 teams really rate? Let's be honest. I took in some last season and was pretty embarrased watching the so called "Professional" teams and arena in which they play in. These players are being taken advantage of! They sell them the dream of getting scouted by the real pro's. Sometimes they play games during the week? You know why? It's because they don't rate! Do you know why? Any other sport will bump them out of the picture. Of course you have some exceptions. Why don't you look into how many of your "Semi=pro indoor" players get scammed? Let's see owners not paying medical bills or many never receiving actual pay. That's right and don't say it doesn't happen all the time because it does. How about the measly $15 meal money they get on away trips? How can you eat on that? That's right you can't! So guess where the rest of the money comes from? You guessed it their pockets! So give me a brek or your so "Semi-pro Indoor Football leagues" So get off your High Horse!

Now onto "Adult Amateur Football" that's what I like to call it and the NAFL.
It's the biggest that's right biggest league of it's kind. 125 teams! Guess how many players from the NAFL play in these indoor leagues? You betcha plenty! Add in the "50" other leagues around the country and I bet you can find plenty of those playesr in your indoor leagues. Back to the NAFL. Officials are certified by the NFL's head ref for the last couple of years. Hmm guess who just jumped on that bandwagon... Guess where the championship game is held? Disney World! Guess how many games are televised locally or on the radio. Don't have the exact number but I'll just leave you with with my general answer of plenty. Am I saying all teams play in the best conditions? No way! In fact since I'm from NYC I never even heard of a "JV football Field" We're lucky to have one High School football field up here and it's used by the rest of the HS sports teams lol. I tell you though if we find out one of our teams is playing in bad field guess what we'll do to that team? That's right kick them out of the league! Sure some players pay something like $200 or $300 to play on teams just as some teams don't charge a dime. IT goes with the territory and the area like anything else. Some teams play in Stadiums while most just play at High School fields. The NAFL has a national playoff structure in place. Where teams from around the country can compete with each other something which no other "Adult Amateur" league provides. How's this during this years championship game turn on the TV and check out ESPN2. When your watching the game let me know what you think of the league then.

Do I think they should have a link on here? To be honest I don't really care! I would also imagine most of us feel the same way. In closing all I'm saying is don't knock it the NAFL because just like you I can go on and on about Indoor Football.

[Houston Caldwell]

That was, IMO, a highly intelligent post. I have already explained why I put no pressure on Paul to cover NAFL. I am an NAFL co-owner, and also a backer of the indoor leagues (I am the prime sponsor of a promising and well-run website on indoor football, www.indoorfootballfan.com). I like BOTH.
There is a structural difference between the indoor leagues and the traditional outdoor game of NAFL. Indoor utilizes smaller rosters, because of the rules and nature of the game, which permits small salary structures. The Nashville Storm, on the other hand, will probably carry a 60+ man roster in 2005; the economics of playing in a 3500-seat venue and cheap ticketing do not make true professionalism feasible with that size outdoor roster. We will spend well in the structure to ensure player advancement.
In certain situations, this is an ADVANTAGE for us; college players on hiatus due to academic or other situations can play for us without forefeiting future collegiate eligibility.
I consider us the eqivalent of a Class A baseball program, but the bottom line is not whether we are amateur or pro. The question is, will we offer the public good athletes in a professional setting, and an experience that encourages them to come back for more at reasonable prices.
I submit that the answer to this question is YES.
Many thanks to the previous poster for saying things that need to be said.

[minnfan]

Most of what was just said did not need to be said.

People on this board, and most likely all other pro football boards already know the basics of what constitutes professional football and semi-pro. It's been stated and re-stated over and over again that pros get paid to play, semi-pros pay to play. That's a simple yardstick to use when you need to measure one league against another.

No matter how bad the level of play is, no matter how the level of pay is, no matter how basic the insurance, travel, housing pay is, being paid makes you a pro. Paying makes you an amateur.

I don't dislike the NAFL, and most of the others on these boards don't either. But for years now we've been subjected to these "Hey guys, did any of you ever hear of the NAFL? It's a great league, check it out and by the way.......howcome there's no place to talk about it on OSC?

All those posts come from the same half dozen NAFL shills, disguised as dumbstruck innocents who just stumbled over the NAFL's web site and decided the first thing to do is rush to Paul's boards and talk up this exciting league.

It was old in 2000....it's a lot older now......I for one get tired of the countless faked posts begging fans of professional football to give nearly 200 semi-pro, sandlot and local barroom teams a look......YOU'LL REALLY BE IMPRESSED!

Give it a rest you guys, the NAFL is what it is and good for them. Just keep it on your own boards and away from people who are looking specifically for professional teams.

[acmeanvil49]

I joined this board after "stumbling" across it trying to get info about the Kentucky Karma womens semi pro/amature/minor-pro/recreational football team.

I don't confuse the womens team as a professional team and I also wouldn't insult them by referring to them as a bear league.

I played for the Louisville Bulls for 12 years in the Mid-Continental football league (MCFL) and I am offended by these post by small mided people who feel they are so high and mighty they need to insult the MCFL, the NAFL and semipro football in general.

The Bulls have a $20,000 annual budget, travel to all road games by chartered bus and have not paid a player in 18-years. The roster has varied from former NFL players, to college stars, to former area H.S. stars to guys who didn't even play H.S. football.

The Bulls play in front of small crowds 500 plus of mostly family and friends and run a well organized team that offers young men the chance to keep playing the sport they love.

Most of the assumptions I've read thrown around in this thread (3 pages) are wrong and sound like jelousy and border on insulting.

If your so mad about people you feel post on this board by implying they "stumbled across this board you should check it out" ............simply delete them, you have an admin correct?

[jimlcham]

The NAFL championship game will be on ESPN on delay broadcast on November 15, 2005 at 12:30 P M eastern.

The game will be played on November 12, 2005, and live 365 radio will give live updates and some play by play.

http://www.live365.com/stations/uftamerica

[jimlcham]

The NAFL says that "circumstances" have caused it to reschedule its replay of its championship game. Could those "circumstances" be lack of sponsorship money to pay for the broadcast?

[SignGuyDino]

I wish to revise my position on listing the NAFL from "No" to "I don't know."

The NWFL is listed, and I have high doubts many of the ladies' playing are paid, either.

And the NAFL is the best of the outdoor leagues out there not named NFL or CFL.

Just my .02...

[indoor fan]

There are over 60 semi pro football leagues. The NAFL is one of them. There playoffs were riddled with forfeits and only 21 players showed up for their semi final game. And the ESPN thing was a scam.

The NAFL should NEVER be mentioned in the same senetence with the word PROFESSIONAL FOOTBALL.