Fresno and Washington Merge?

[Sam Hill]

Let me get this straight....the Washington Raptors, the one with the very large fanbase that comes from all over Washington and Oregon to see them play, will now ask that fanbase to go to California to see them play because they've merged with Fresno? (http://www.oursportscentral.com/services/releases/?id=3755441)


WHAT

THE

FACK?


"...a merger between the two organizations that will shake the basketball world."

Hyperbole, thy name is Tim Joseph.

Someone just pull the plug on this thing. This supposed league is just full of people who shouldn't have fantasy basketball teams, much less pro organizations.

[Paul S]

Good Lord!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No really, GOOD LORD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Lets run this thing through Sam Hills computer program the Joe Speak 5000

The Fresno Rebels and the Washington Raptors professional basketball clubs of the ABA are proud to announce a merger between the two organizations that will shake the basketball world. Dominick Young, Diego Redd, Regina Joseph, and Tim Joseph have been in discussion regarding the successful outcome, impact, and benefits this will provide the new club.



Blah blah blah blah...........merger 'cos were broke...........blah blah blah


After traveling 10 hours to Washington for a history making four game series, which ended up being cancelled due to a heavy snowstorm blanketing most of western Washington, Rebels players, Willie Johnson, Luis Compose, Tre'von Kinchen, Chris Covey, Richard Blowe, Dene Young, and Bayo Simmons instead enjoyed the accommodations at the Chehalis Tribe's Eagle's Landing Hotel at the Lucky Eagle Casino in Rochester, WA.



So we drive up I-5 in an old van, make it to the opponents town, then cancel the historic 4 game series because we had mo' fun hanging at a casino on the Indians dime.



Over the weekend Raptors' owner, Regina Joseph, Tim Joseph, Raptors' President/GM, and Rebels' co-owner, Dominick Young stayed in close contact as to the status of the games to be played.

Young and the Joseph's then began discussing basketball operations, strong teams, and marketing. Young was also in contact with Rebels' co-owner Diego Redd, of Rebel Entertainment. The discussion lead to the idea of merging both squads and the Fresno-Washington Raptors became a unanimous decision.

Regina said "I'm Broke" then Tim said "I'm black" then Dominick said Hey, theres a mountain

We broke, black and living on a mountain....should be a movie. The ABA documentary will be called BrokeBlack Mountain.

Anyways............With each side holed up in a casino for 4 days while it snowed we each thought the other had enough money to get us out of debt. So we merged.


Dominick Young, the first player to be drafted by the ABA in 2000, will become the Raptors' head coach. Young is a graduate of Fresno State, and also played for legendary coach Jerry Tarkanian. He just returned from his head coaching position with the Tijuana Galgos of the LNBP. "We are excited about all of the experience Dominick is bringing to this team", stated the Josephs.



We found someone else who for reasons known only to himself is BACK IN THE ABA


Diego Redd is well known all over the United States and the World for his involvement in the Hip Hop industry with world famous talent who seek him out. A quote from one source: "One of the hottest out of the West Coast or all over the United States" - Kanye West

"Diego brings a huge piece to the organization, we are proud and honored to be associated with a true icon", commented the Josephs.


Guy who's song rap game goes like this........"I'm like a sniper, man," ...... "I'm on the rooftop just waiting for the right time to fire at this mutha****a. The rap game did so many ni**as dirty. I'm just waiting for the right time." - we welcome all future raps about a guy named Joe running a basketball league out of a basement.


Regina Joseph, Owner and CEO of the Raptors, worked for the state of Washington, under Secretary of State, Sam Reed, for 16 years and has been in the library field for more than 25 years. Mrs. Joseph also has 10 years of experience working alongside her husband in the professional sports industry.

Tim Joseph, President/GM and Founder, has over 20 years of experience in professional sports having worked for the Seattle Sonics, Seattle Mariners, Seattle Seahawks, NFL Celebrity Sports Challenge, Seattle Sounders FC, Tacoma Sabercats, and Lenny Randle's Pro Baseball Academy representing the New York Yankees, New York Mets, Seattle Mariners and California Angels of Major League Baseball. Most recently, Mr. Joseph has been involved in the IBL for the past four years.


Two intelligent people who should know better are mixed up in this.....


Home games expected to be played in Washington are Phoenix (Fury), Salt Lake City (Saints), Beijing (Aoshen Olympian), and Modesto (Bearcats). There are no excuses for missed games by the aforementioned teams, if so the Fresno-Washington Raptors would expect to be given a win by forfeit. This will strengthen the league in games played over all and make teams accountable.



This is borderline hilarious........... There are no excuses for missed games by the aforementioned teams

We at OSC are gonna remember that little quote Tim and Regina.


The Fresno-Washington Raptors will be a California based organization, final details of the merger will take place this week, which will result in the Fresno Rebels dissolving.



So we are a California based organization but the Fresno Rebels are dissolving and calling ourselves Washington....but, ............but playing in California......... and .......Wash. .............Washington.

Whats next? A team calling itself Beijing playing in Singapore putting up teams in mold filled brothels, then get tired off the Singapore Slings so move to ..........where else.......California?

[CHris902]

I can't believe they're merging in the middle of of the season... okay, I can believe they're merging in the middle of the season, but that still seems like crazy behavior.

[tbayz1]

What a joke.

[CHris902]

So we are a California based organization but the Fresno Rebels are dissolving and calling ourselves Washington....but, ............but playing in California......... and .......Wash. .............Washington.

The way I understand the press release is that home games will be played in Washington, but with the organization being based in California:
Home games expected to be played in Washington...

[TEN]

Sounds like some Fresno players decided that "Hell dawg! We ain't going back to Fresno! We got free rooms, free buffet...and gamblin' money! This is the way pro basketball is supposed to be!"

Trainwreck!

[nksports]

Poor Fresno. First the hockey team shuts down. Now this.

[LightningMan]

It sounds like the Washington owners sold the team to the Fresno owners for no money and the Fresno owners disbanded their previous team.

I'm sure when I read it tomorrow it will sound like something else again.

[meyes]

My first thought when I read this was "That's going to mess up the schedule." Then I remembered..... "what schedule?"

[ABARedWhiteBlue]

Home games expected to be played in Washington are Phoenix (Fury), Salt Lake City (Saints), Beijing (Aoshen Olympian), and Modesto (Bearcats). There are no excuses for missed games by the aforementioned teams, if so the Fresno-Washington Raptors would expect to be given a win by forfeit. This will strengthen the league in games played over all and make teams accountable.

Just curious, but will the same standard apply to the Wash-no franchise?

'Cause, you know, they had excuses for not going to Alaska and all.

:confused:

[ABARedWhiteBlue]

http://www.chronline.com/storysports.php?subaction=showfull&id=1230138580&archive=&start_from=&ucat=16&

Raptors, Fresno Join Up
ROCHESTER -- The Fresno Rebels and the Washington Raptors professional basketball clubs of the ABA have announced a merger plan between the two organizations.
Posted December 24, 10:09 am, 2008. E-mail this article to a friend.
By The Chronicle

ROCHESTER -- The Fresno Rebels and the Washington Raptors professional basketball clubs of the ABA have announced a merger plan between the two organizations.

Dominick Young, Diego Redd, Regina Joseph, and Tim Joseph have been in discussion regarding the successful outcome, impact, and benefits this will provide the new club.

After traveling 10 hours last weekend to Washington for a four-game series, which ended up being canceled due to a heavy snowstorm blanketing most of Western Washington, several Rebel players stayed at the Chehalis Tribe’s Eagle’s Landing Hotel at the Lucky Eagle Casino.

Over the weekend Raptors’ owner Regina Joseph, team president/GM Tim Joseph, and Rebels’ co-owner Dominick Young stayed in close contact as to the status of the games to be played.

Young and the Josephs then began discussing basketball operations, strong teams, and marketing. Young was also in contact with Rebels’ co-owner Diego Redd, of Rebel Entertainment. The discussion led to the idea of merging both squads and the Fresno-Washington Raptors became a unanimous decision.

Young, the first player to be drafted by the ABA in 2000, will become the Raptors’ head coach. He is a graduate of Fresno State, and also played for legendary coach Jerry Tarkanian. He just returned from his head coaching position with the Tijuana Galgos of the LNBP.

“We are excited about all of the experience Dominick is bringing to this team,” said the Josephs in a statement.

Redd is well known for his involvement in the hip-hop industry. Kanye West once called him. “One of the hottest out of the West Coast or all over the United States,” the Josephs wrote.

“Diego brings a huge piece to the organization; we are proud and honored to be associated with a true icon,” commented the Josephs.

Home games expected to be played in Washington are Phoenix (Fury), Salt Lake City (Saints), Beijing (Aoshen Olympian), and Modesto (Bearcats).

The Fresno-Washington Raptors will be a California-based organization, final details of the merger will take place this week, which will result in the Fresno Rebels dissolving.

Former coach Lewis Lofton was unavailable for comment Tuesday.


Former coach Lewis Lofton was unavailable for comment Tuesday - well, they found him, and he paints a less than rosy picture, and includes comments about the trip to the 49th state:

http://www.chronline.com/storysports.php?subaction=showfull&id=1230138537&archive=&start_from=&ucat=16
Coach Lofton Left Out of the Process
Lewis Lofton feels he deserved a little better treatment.
Posted December 24, 10:08 am, 2008. E-mail this article to a friend.
By Sam Bakotich
sbakotich@chronline.com

Lewis Lofton feels he deserved a little better treatment.

Lofton, the former Centralia High School and Weber State standout basketball player, has been the player/coach of the Washington Raptors this season in the American Basketball Association.

Last year, the Raptors were known as the Lewis County Raptors and struggled through a losing season, on and off the court.

Owners Tim and Regina Joseph then tried their hand in the ABA and enlisted the aid of Lofton as their player/coach, which was an excellent public relations move.

However, the ABA was fraught with problems right away.

Opening Day is usually special in any league, and the Raptors were to open at home with the San Francisco Rumble on Dec. 5.

But for whatever reason, the Rumble didn’t show and forfeited the opener, which was to be played at Rochester High School, since the Raptors don’t, as yet, have a home court.

On Dec. 15-16, the Raptors were supposed to go to Alaska for a two-game set, but it didn’t come about because of a mixup in travel arrangements.

One source said it was the Alaska Dream’s fault (that would be Joe, I assume), and Lofton said it was the Josephs’.

When games against the Sacramento Heatwave didn’t materialize Dec. 19-20, the Raptors tried to get the Fresno Rebels to play. Fresno came up here but the series was postponed due to weather.

As stated in the related story, over that weekend, the Raptors and Rebels decided to merge and they announced a new head coach.

Lofton, contacted by telephone at his home in Ogden, Utah, Tuesday said he learned of the coaching change in a newspaper brief.

“I saw in the paper that they got a new coach,” Lofton said. “That’s the kind of communication the Josephs have -- none.”

Lofton said whatever happens next, the only thing he knows is he’s done with the Raptors.

“I feel totally embarrassed for that organization,” he said. “They’ve got some real issues. They told me they had a whole bunch of sponsors and money, and all of a sudden, they said they had no money and no one got paid, not me or any other players.

“The whole organization is just very shady and that’s not what I want to be associated with. I’m a professional and all I ask is to work with professionals who talk to you and keep their word. These people (Josephs) lie right and left. I thought I had a commitment and they bailed out.”

Lofton coached one game with the Raptors. He’s also upset that he lured some good players here “under the pretense the Josephs would keep their word and run a first-class organization.”

After the mixup with the Alaska travel situation, Lofton said the Josephs are lying about it being Alaska’s fault.

“That’s a professional group up there,” he said. “They flew in four teams for a Shootout up there with no problems. When the Raptors couldn’t make it up there, they tried blaming them when it was the Joseph’s fault.”

A telephone call to Tim Joseph wasn’t returned Tuesday.


so goes the ABA...

[formerlyknownasfells]

Actually, I was the source. The article is up on OSC in which I pointed the blame on the Dream and not on the Raptors. The e-mails I obtained state that fact very clearly.

Now, I am going to sleep. I spent seven hours on the road today driving home from North Carolina and am farking pooped.

[ABARedWhiteBlue]

Actually, I was the source. The article is up on OSC in which I pointed the blame on the Dream and not on the Raptors. The e-mails I obtained state that fact very clearly.

Now, I am going to sleep. I spent seven hours on the road today driving home from North Carolina and am farking pooped.


I should have said Joe's emails as the source, Chris. I'm sure Joe would say nothing directly on the record or just paint the rosiest picture -

at least as long as Alaska is still affiliated with the ABA. But after they go, though, the gloves will come off, as they always do...

[psbf]

After they go?? I see you have no Dreams

[NWFan]

I respect the reporting done on OSC regarding ABA issues, and don't know much about the Alaska travel issue, but with all due respect, I would trust Lewis Lofton before I would ever believe anything out of Tim Joseph, e-mail or otherwise. While the e-mails are evidence of some kind against the Alaska team, I am certain they don't begin to tell the entire sordid tale. It must be an entirely miserable situation for anyone involved with the Raptors aside from the Josephs. I feel for Lewis Lofton, as I had met him and had discussions about his purpose and vision for the team, and was impressed. He was in it to try to bring organization and class to the Raptors. I have experienced the Raptors' business practices firsthand, and they are as awful as Lewis states. When Lewis stated that he was told the team had plenty of money, I heard the exact same thing out of the same person.

Expect to see more dubious business headlines from the Fresno-Rochester Raptors, or whoever they are as of now.

[formerlyknownasfells]

I respect the reporting done on OSC regarding ABA issues, and don't know much about the Alaska travel issue, but with all due respect, I would trust Lewis Lofton before I would ever believe anything out of Tim Joseph, e-mail or otherwise. While the e-mails are evidence of some kind against the Alaska team, I am certain they don't begin to tell the entire sordid tale. It must be an entirely miserable situation for anyone involved with the Raptors aside from the Josephs. I feel for Lewis Lofton, as I had met him and had discussions about his purpose and vision for the team, and was impressed. He was in it to try to bring organization and class to the Raptors. I have experienced the Raptors' business practices firsthand, and they are as awful as Lewis states. When Lewis stated that he was told the team had plenty of money, I heard the exact same thing out of the same person.

Expect to see more dubious business headlines from the Fresno-Rochester Raptors, or whoever they are as of now.

As always, there are two sides to every story, and there may be another side to this one; who knows?

The original deal with the Dream was that they were to provide travel to and from Alaska for visiting teams. In this case, it was not done in a timely manner, and Alaska tried to pass the buck to the Raptors. This is very clearly stated in an e-mail from CEO Newman. In my mind, there is zero doubt as to where the blame lies.

You may have something against the Raptors organization, but with the evidence I was presented by neutral parties, the ABA and the Dream royally botched this one.

[psbf]

I may be in the minority with my thoughts here, but I don't think Alaska should have taken on the burden of the cost of flying all of their opponents in and out, as that's taking a big risk in their attendence(which would probably help pay expenses). I would have thought that their opponents would share some of the costs.
The Bermuda Hogges(2nd Division US soccer) did that for the past two seasons and now they're broke.

[ABARedWhiteBlue]

I may be in the minority with my thoughts here, but I don't think Alaska should have taken on the burden of the cost of flying all of their opponents in and out, as that's taking a big risk in their attendence(which would probably help pay expenses). I would have thought that their opponents would share some of the costs.
The Bermuda Hogges(2nd Division US soccer) did that for the past two seasons and now they're broke.

But, if providing travel was part of their league-imposed mandate for having a team, they had two choices:

1 - pay for travel to Alaska
2 - don't join the ABA

This all goes back to the guy in Singapore who covered travel for teams to fly there last year (and had ample funds to do so). Now Joe wants it for any far-flung franchise...

I would expect Hawaii to face similar rules next year.

[formerlyknownasfells]

I may be in the minority with my thoughts here, but I don't think Alaska should have taken on the burden of the cost of flying all of their opponents in and out, as that's taking a big risk in their attendence(which would probably help pay expenses). I would have thought that their opponents would share some of the costs.
The Bermuda Hogges(2nd Division US soccer) did that for the past two seasons and now they're broke.

Personally, I don't think it was a good decision at all, but they made it and have to stick by it. In one of the e-mails we obtained, Newman reminds Smith of the deal they had made and questions why there were so many issues.

Dumb move; yes. Do the Dream have to abide by their decision? You bet your arse they do.

[psbf]

RWB, there is a big difference between going to a Chinese city and distant US states(imo).

Formerly known, I agree in sticking to commitment is important. I do hope the Alaska Dream are able to make it, though, for the sake of their supporters.

[Hockey]

The Dream should merge with the Fresington Raptors. To make the Freoragington Rap Dream.

They can bring 25 players up to Alaska and 4 or 5 sets of jerseys. Cycle through each jersey for the home schedule and announce all sorts of player trades so that it seems as if new teams are coming up.

[TEN]

I may be in the minority with my thoughts here, but I don't think Alaska should have taken on the burden of the cost of flying all of their opponents in and out, as that's taking a big risk in their attendence(which would probably help pay expenses). I would have thought that their opponents would share some of the costs.
The Bermuda Hogges(2nd Division US soccer) did that for the past two seasons and now they're broke.


One thing that must be taken into consideration.....These clueless ABA owners don't look at history.... they don't think about that fact that almost EVERY other ABA team has gone down in flames... They look at their own situation and think: basketball fans will just flock into my gym and spend their hard earned money. All I have to do is FLY THE TEAMS IN TO PLAY US!

"We are in the ABA! It ONLY costs us $10,000 to be allowed to basically "print money!" Why shouldn't we bear the cost of getting the teams in here.....we are going to be rich!"

[psbf]

I'm sure that's true in most cases, Ten.

[ABARedWhiteBlue]

RWB, there is a big difference between going to a Chinese city and distant US states(imo).

No difference at all, really - most teams can't afford to travel to either from the lower 48. Put Halifax in the same situation as well. Hey, many teams have a hard time paying for travel to other US-based locations (CHicago couldn't travel across town, for that matter).

If Joe insists on bringing in teams without regard to logic and geography, those willing people looking to establish a franchise at a far-flung location will have to foot most, if not all of the travel bills to their city.

The guy in Singapore had cash to burn, so he viewed the cost as nothing more than the price to do business. Because he was able to swing it - and due to the two abject failures in Hawaii - every distant team will now be held to the same standards Aoshen had.

Even if these other teams have only a fraction of the financial capabilities to do so.

[psbf]

No difference?? Maybe JN can say that, but the travel is much shorter and not to mention that(as I already mentioned) Hawaii and Alaska are STATES. unlike Singapore, which is in ANOTHER COUNTRY(China)!

[besl]

No difference?? Maybe JN can say that, but the travel is much shorter and not to mention that(as I already mentioned) Hawaii and Alaska are STATES. unlike Singapore, which is in ANOTHER COUNTRY(China)!

Not to split hairs, but the geography degree-earning part of me would like to remind you that Singapore is an independent country, and is not part of China. In fact, Singapore is about a 3 1/2 hour flight south of Hong Kong.

[Pounder]

Not to split hairs, but the geography degree-earning part of me would like to remind you that Singapore is an independent country, and is not part of China. In fact, Singapore is about a 3 1/2 hour flight south of Hong Kong.

For that matter, it's something of a 26-mile by 12-mile island with some free trade and shipping-lane significance. Not exactly democratic, rather oddball... like the roommate I had for a couple terms at U of O whom was from there.

[psbf]

My main point, besl, is that SINGAPORE, is NOT in the USA!! I really could care less about the Beijing Olympic(or whatever the team was called) ABA team. I'd rather see teams in Alaska and Hawaii survive than some foreign-based team who's owners decide where they want to be situated.:rolleyes:

[ABARedWhiteBlue]

No difference?? Maybe JN can say that, but the travel is much shorter and not to mention that(as I already mentioned) Hawaii and Alaska are STATES. unlike Singapore, which is in ANOTHER COUNTRY(China)!

Yes, there is no difference.

Travel requires money, regardless of the destination. Too many ABA teams lack the requisite funding to send much more than a skeleton crew of maybe 6-7 players within US borders; trips that very often require nothing more than a rented van.

Going to Alaska, Hawaii, Halifax, Singapore or to regions outside their immediate vicinity - all of which essentially require airfare - are beyond the means of these teams. So there are two options for distant opponents:

1 - pay to cover the cost of travel to their city, regardless of which city that may be
2 - pray like hell that these teams actually show up for a game on their own dime (see Rumble vs. Raptors for just one recent example)

Because of the location in relationship to other ABA teams, chances are a team based in Minot, for example, would probably have to defray much of the travel costs for its opponents.

The distance and destination do not matter. The funds to pay for the travel - and from whose checkbook those funds come - does.

And Aoshen is no longer in Singapore; they are allegedly back in the States for this season.

[CHris902]

To be fair, Halifax is within driving distance for most of the teams in last year's ABA north east last year. A very long drive, but air is not the only way to get here. Alaska however is certainly not a reasonable drive from anywhere in the lower 48.

[meyes]

In fact, it is not possible to drive to Juneau, the capitol of Alaska. There are streets in the city but no roads to or from any place else. People must get in or out by plane or boat.

[ABARedWhiteBlue]

To be fair, Halifax is within driving distance for most of the teams in last year's ABA north east last year. A very long drive, but air is not the only way to get here. Alaska however is certainly not a reasonable drive from anywhere in the lower 48.

True, Chris. I was looking at trips from outside the region - Georgia, Texas, etc.

[psbf]

Chris902, have you ever taken a look at a map? There is a Highway that goes from Vancouver to Alaska. So you can get there from here!

[formerlyknownasfells]

Chris902, have you ever taken a look at a map? There is a Highway that goes from Vancouver to Alaska. So you can get there from here!

Ok, you can get to Fairbanks/Anchorage from Washington but it is a 2,400 mile drive. Translation.......About two and a half days on a bus.

[LightningMan]

Chris902, have you ever taken a look at a map? There is a Highway that goes from Vancouver to Alaska. So you can get there from here!
According to Mapquest, the drive from Vancouver Washington to Juneau Alaska is over 2000 miles and two days. For contrast's sake, the drive from Wilmington, NC to Halifax is half that. So, yes, you can get there from here, but two days drive for their closest opponent is not reasonable.

[CHris902]

psbf: as other people have pointed out, Halifax to Boston can be done fairly easily in 11 hours by car and people regularly make that trip. I think I map quested Seattle to Anchorage at 44 hours by car. Two full days of travel time on either side of the trip makes it undrivable for a sports team to go a play a game or two. Add to that the west coast footprint of this year's ABA compared to the east coast footprint of last year's and it's pretty clear that Halifax and Anchorage are pretty different when it comes to travel for divisional opponents. A two night back to back stand for Washington in Anchorage would have taken a full week including travel time if they drove. A week! As I said - you can drive to Anchorage, but it's not a reasonable drive.

[psbf]

Reasonable or not, it's still possible(which I hope to do someday).

[ABARedWhiteBlue]

Reasonable or not, it's still possible(which I hope to do someday).

We can put a team in kayaks to travel to Hawaii as well.

Reasonable or not, it's still possible.

You are missing the point of the discussion here by an extremely wide margin.

[TEN]

This thread reminds me of my days in the USBL...The league management in Connecticut was wanting to add teams in the midwest and southern part of the country. Now for us in the midwest.....going back east wasn't much of a hardship....fly into Newark or LaGuardia...rent vans and go...the longest drive was three or four hours up to Glens Falls.

But they always had kind of an issue with the distances in the midwest...scheduling back to backs with a game in Oklahoma on a Saturday night and a game in Cedar Rapids, Iowa the next afternoon (it happened to us once...we left OK at 3 a.m. and got there a half hour before the start of the game..and got hammered.)

Well, anyway, in 2002, Fort Worth came into the league and Mark McClure scheduled a press conference and a big party...I decided to make the nine hour drive down there and asked if Dennis Truax and Ed Krinsky would like to ride back to Dodge City with me to announce the USBL Tournament the next day...

They agreed and we left Fort Worth at 10 a.m....and drove...and drove....and got to Oklahoma City about four hours later....they assumed we were almost there....but we drove...and drove...and drove...five hours later we made it to Dodge City. They were ready to get out of the car!

I think I got my point across....the shortest road trip in the midwest was about equal to the longest road trip back east...

[Sam Hill]

Well, anyway, in 2002, Fort Worth came into the league and Mark McClure scheduled a press conference and a big party...

How'd his franchise work out after the big shindig, anyway? :D

[TEN]

How'd his franchise work out after the big shindig, anyway? :D

All I'm sayin'....that was a hell of a party! And probably the high point of the entire franchise!

[Sam Hill]

[eric dickerson]mo' debbinately[/eric dickerson].

And do you know why? Because Mark McClure is all hat, no cattle.

[Paul S]

I'll give McClure some credit...................................

at least he gave it a go. At least the guy tried 2x to get a team going.

While its all very easy for us to sit and roar with laughter at the non-stop comedy coming out of Joe's wacked out little league, McClure did try.

Don't get me wrong. I know he's not the next coming of George Steinbrenner but the man did try. Fail? yes, but he did try.

I also know he's not popular around here for some of his posts but the guy has done more than most of us to get a real team going.

[Sam Hill]

Hey, guys who try...great for them. But I'd rather give kudos to somebody like Larry, who has tried and was honest and up front about what he was trying to do and found it to be much, much harder than he expected. But at least he didn't say "We're going to generate a million in revenue" (when no USBL team was going to do that) and that he'd sold out 7,000 tickets for the opener and then it was someone else's fault when the whole thing collapsed and that the ABA's Phoenix team was going to clear a million, easily, when it's not even clear they're still playing games.

That's the problem we have with Mark McClure.

There have been lots of other people who've given their best efforts at starting teams in lots of sports, but they haven't all done it with the misplaced braggodocio that that guy tried.