XFL

[Shootmaster_44]

I'm just curious about something. I was reading the Official Player Guide for the NFL and noticed something, it doesn't seem to acknowledge playing in the XFL. For example Tommy Maddox has no mention of playing there but does mention his stint in the Arena League. The book seems to acknowledge every league except the XFL. Does anyone know why that is? It also appears that the CFL doesn't acknowledge it either.

[JB]

The NFL was/felt threatened by the XFL and they and the media did everything they could to discredit the league. Obviously they are still working at it.

The media did there part by not reporting the scores. The XFL had better tv ratings than Hockey, Golf, Women's Basketball, Bowling, Ice Skating, Auto Racing but they still refused to acknowledge it. The list goes on and on.

[Pounder]

The NFL was/felt threatened by the XFL and they and the media did everything they could to discredit the league. Obviously they are still working at it.

The media did there part by not reporting the scores. The XFL had better tv ratings than Hockey, Golf, Women's Basketball, Bowling, Ice Skating, Auto Racing but they still refused to acknowledge it. The list goes on and on.

Yes, so successful was this venture that Vinnie Mac had to close down after one season.

By the end of that season, in a prime time slot on a Big 3 network, the XFL was pulling ratings slightly better than 1. Normally, with the Big 3, static will draw a 2 on a Saturday night.

Many leagues survive without media attention. Most of them at least have credibility. You can argue that Vince MacMahon's mere presence with this outfit implied the possibility of a lack of credibility- though I have sided with a minority of media who feel MacMahon should have actually faked the football.

Methinks some money was squandered somewhere where it shouldn't have. I have a feeling VM performed the ultimate cardinal sin of sports- he used his own money on the venture. It shows in the way his wrestling venture has gone downhill since the XFL folded.

[JB]

The NFL was/felt threatened by the XFL and they and the media did everything they could to discredit the league. Obviously they are still working at it.

The media did there part by not reporting the scores. The XFL had better tv ratings than Hockey, Golf, Women's Basketball, Bowling, Ice Skating, Auto Racing but they still refused to acknowledge it. The list goes on and on.

Yes, so successful was this venture that Vinnie Mac had to close down after one season.

By the end of that season, in a prime time slot on a Big 3 network, the XFL was pulling ratings slightly better than 1. Normally, with the Big 3, static will draw a 2 on a Saturday night.

Many leagues survive without media attention. Most of them at least have credibility. You can argue that Vince MacMahon's mere presence with this outfit implied the possibility of a lack of credibility- though I have sided with a minority of media who feel MacMahon should have actually faked the football.

Methinks some money was squandered somewhere where it shouldn't have. I have a feeling VM performed the ultimate cardinal sin of sports- he used his own money on the venture. It shows in the way his wrestling venture has gone downhill since the XFL folded.

That may be true about VM squandering the money but regardless, it doesn't excuse the media's ommision of the XFL scores nor does it explain the CFL and NFL's refusal to acknowledge the XFL.

[BCRantzilla]

Here's my take on the XFL:

The league wasn't nearly as horrible as the media makes it out to be. The USFL and 1974-75 WFL were 1000 times worse than the XFL ever was. The problem was the media had a very bad attitude towards Vince McMahon and the feeling was mutual.

The first major hiring for the XFL was Dick Butkus, a legit NFL legend and tough as nails. Everything McMahon envisioned for the XFL was supposedly based on #51's style of play which was boarderline homicide when he played. If McMahon had made Butkus the commissioner of the XFL and stepped into the shadows and allowed Butkus to be the face of the league and conduct all of the league related interviews with the media, the league as a whole would have looked a whole lot better. The mainstream sports media would have had more respect for Butkus and if HE had called NFL plaers " waists" and not McMahon, it would have been taken somewhat seriously and not trashed as badly as that statement was.

Brian Bozworth wasn't too bad as a commentator but Ebersol should have been given much more power over who was in the booth. This way guys like Costas would have had to keep their mouths shut in regards to their hatred towards the league and even may have had to shill for it. Unfortunately, Vince wanted the power to hire HIS people and it backfired. Nobody wanted to work for Vince in the sports fraternity and unfortunately NBC allowed Vinnie way too much power in terms of how the gaims were broadcast. (They didn't even look like an NBC Sports broadcast, more like RAW.) This was when you saw guys who weren't even taken seriously by wrestling fans like Jim Ross and Jerry "why the hell was he even there" Lawler calling the gaims. Jesse Ventura was fine as he has called Vikings and Buccaneers s in the past and was more than capable. However, any and all WWF references and employees in the XFL should have ended there.

From there McMahon just got desperate. The "Inside the XFL Cheerleaders Lockerroom" segment is clearly engraved on the league's headstone. Aside from that, the football wasn't that bad. It was a hell of a lot better than NFL Europe (WLAF) or the USFL (run, run, run, punt for 60 minutes,) ever were. Unfortunately, because Vince decided to downplay the football itself, everyone focused on that. If the football itself was more on display, it could have worked.

Some of the teams did legitimately draw well. San Francisco, Birmingham and Vegas drew shockingly good crowds. You can say Frisco drew because of runoff from fans who couldn't get in to see the 9ers but paid attendance is paid attendance. Chicago and New York didn't draw for obvious reasons: February football is way too cold in those areas. You may as well have teams in Winnipeg and Regina, (the coldest places in the western hemisphere with any people living there in February.) LA was a disaster but I'm sure even McMahon knew that going in but needed them for the tv deal.

The XFL is a really good example of coulda, woulda, shoulda. But not nearly as horrible as it is remembered as now.

[JB]

Here's my take on the XFL:

The league wasn't nearly as horrible as the media makes it out to be. The USFL and 1974-75 WFL were 1000 times worse than the XFL ever was. The problem was the media had a very bad attitude towards Vince McMahon and the feeling was mutual.

The first major hiring for the XFL was Dick Butkus, a legit NFL legend and tough as nails. Everything McMahon envisioned for the XFL was supposedly based on #51's style of play which was boarderline homicide when he played. If McMahon had made Butkus the commissioner of the XFL and stepped into the shadows and allowed Butkus to be the face of the league and conduct all of the league related interviews with the media, the league as a whole would have looked a whole lot better. The mainstream sports media would have had more respect for Butkus and if HE had called NFL plaers " waists" and not McMahon, it would have been taken somewhat seriously and not trashed as badly as that statement was.

Brian Bozworth wasn't too bad as a commentator but Ebersol should have been given much more power over who was in the booth. This way guys like Costas would have had to keep their mouths shut in regards to their hatred towards the league and even may have had to shill for it. Unfortunately, Vince wanted the power to hire HIS people and it backfired. Nobody wanted to work for Vince in the sports fraternity and unfortunately NBC allowed Vinnie way too much power in terms of how the gaims were broadcast. (They didn't even look like an NBC Sports broadcast, more like RAW.) This was when you saw guys who weren't even taken seriously by wrestling fans like Jim Ross and Jerry "why the hell was he even there" Lawler calling the gaims. Jesse Ventura was fine as he has called Vikings and Buccaneers s in the past and was more than capable. However, any and all WWF references and employees in the XFL should have ended there.

From there McMahon just got desperate. The "Inside the XFL Cheerleaders Lockerroom" segment is clearly engraved on the league's headstone. Aside from that, the football wasn't that bad. It was a hell of a lot better than NFL Europe (WLAF) or the USFL (run, run, run, punt for 60 minutes,) ever were. Unfortunately, because Vince decided to downplay the football itself, everyone focused on that. If the football itself was more on display, it could have worked.

Some of the teams did legitimately draw well. San Francisco, Birmingham and Vegas drew shockingly good crowds. You can say Frisco drew because of runoff from fans who couldn't get in to see the 9ers but paid attendance is paid attendance. Chicago and New York didn't draw for obvious reasons: February football is way too cold in those areas. You may as well have teams in Winnipeg and Regina, (the coldest places in the western hemisphere with any people living there in February.) LA was a disaster but I'm sure even McMahon knew that going in but needed them for the tv deal.

The XFL is a really good example of coulda, woulda, shoulda. But not nearly as horrible as it is remembered as now.

Damn that was a great post!

[Football Chick]

A couple of names have been brought up that played in the XFL, but my favorite is Rod Smart aka He Hate Me. I've seen him play several times in North Carolina and even met him after a game, and he is the coolest. Funniest thing is most people remember him as "He Hate Me" instead of his real name. Last year during Carolina's run for the Super Bowl, one of the announcers once said "He loves me" after Rod made a good play.

I loved the XFL if the tv was turned to mute......

[BlackJackRob22]

Vince had to shut it down because of the hatred by the media. If you watched even Jay Leno when the ratings where between 14.0 and 7.0 he critized ever thing about them. He was a NBC spoksperson and he was a small example. Now the XFL did many things bad also so it shot itself in the foot when everybody else was aiming for a head shot. I would have preffered them stay around but of course that did not happen. I think it would have been great to see the rise of the AFL on another network and the XFL on NBC.

[Pounder]

Know what?

Part of football's popularity is the NFL LIMITING its exposure (somewhat) on major networks, knowing that the broader fan base wants to see the better games.

Part of COLLEGE football's popularity is actually the opposite- Saturdays are so awash that your alma mater is likely to be on TV in a given week... even at Kent.

With that, however, comes a saturation point. Have you considered the possibility that the fans generating the initial big ratings were the wrasslin fans rather than the football fans? The show possibly didn't meet their expectations.

It's possible that there's room for a spring football league, especially one that's allowed to grow from grass roots instead of forced. I just don't think you can throw another version on TV, however, and expect to thrive. Even a good thing can be overexposed.

[JB]

Know what?

Part of football's popularity is the NFL LIMITING its exposure (somewhat) on major networks, knowing that the broader fan base wants to see the better games.

Part of COLLEGE football's popularity is actually the opposite- Saturdays are so awash that your alma mater is likely to be on TV in a given week... even at Kent.

With that, however, comes a saturation point. Have you considered the possibility that the fans generating the initial big ratings were the wrasslin fans rather than the football fans? The show possibly didn't meet their expectations.

It's possible that there's room for a spring football league, especially one that's allowed to grow from grass roots instead of forced. I just don't think you can throw another version on TV, however, and expect to thrive. Even a good thing can be overexposed.

You make a very good point, don't over saturate the market. That has been the CONVENTIONAL thinking and it has worked very well for the NFL. Why tamper with success right? I think thats all about to change and here's why.

As hard as it is to believe, a league that plays outdoor football during the NFL off-season has not YET been marketed properly.

The USFL had the deep pockets, but the wrong plan by paying astronomical money to their athletes which in turn forced them to compete with the NFL which led to their demise. Stupid, dumb move. By the time they switched seasons, they were already dying and were just trying to bluff the NFL into some sort of merger. It was a desperation move. It failed. If they had just taken the players that were available and payed them the 1980's equivelent of what todays AFL pays their players, and played ONLY during the NFL off-season the USFL would still be around today. No doubt about it.

The XFL had the right season, a major tv contract, and the right pay scale, but an absolutely lousy, gimmicky and sometimes embarrassing marketing plan in addition to the 'bull in a china shop' mentality towards the NFL. Vince jumped in without thinking it all the way through. What a waste of money and what a waste of a golden opportunity to tap into a football market that's just waiting for the right league to come along.

Thanks in part to the AFL landing a major tv contract and thanks to as of last week the NHL cancelling their season, I think that ratings/viewership/attendance for arena football are about to take off. The NHL will never recover from this debacle. Yeah they'll be back and they'll be on tv, but they will never have the viewership/attendance they want/need nor will they get the big money they seek.

And baseball is another one going through turmoil right now, currently suffering a black eye with the Balco steroid scandal and as of this morning Canseco's tell-all book rocketed to number one on Amazon, not good for baseball. Remember the last time baseball went on strike and the public didn't care. Remember that? They weren't getting any sympathy from the public.

All this is good for the future of year round football. I believe that conventional thinking is going to learn a new lesson in regards to football and especially in regards to Americans and their love of football. I believe it has been seriously underestimated.

The next NFL franchise is estimated to sell for around 750 million dollars. I'm basing this estimate on a website ( http://auctionfire.com/plan.html ) run by some entrepenuers hoping to buy the next NFL franchise. Way too expensive imo, NFL ownership is reserved for the elite rich, nothing wrong with that but many want a piece of the pie, but not at that price. Why pay that much when you can start your own league for quite a bit less.

How many billions are invested in the stock market every year? How many billions are lost every year? People are always looking for new ways to make big money. There is no shortage of investors and there won't be any shortage when the Arena numbers start to come in and these investors/money people start to realize they're just scratching the surface with the potential that up to now has gone unnoticed.

I believe two scenarios are very possible within the next few years.

Scenario 1; A new football league with the right owners/successful businessmen, the right business plan i.e. marketing, nothing gimmicky just straight out football, the right pay scale, real football announcers, the right personnel, a season scheduled ONLY during the NFL off season and never competing head to head with the NFL, will tap into a gold mine. And there's always the possibility of a fan owned (stocks/shares) football league. I personally would like to see that but thats another story.

Scenario 2; and I think this option is much more likely, has the NFL realizing with the increased viewership and attendance at arena games that a larger market exist for football. But even then I believe the NFL won't budge until they perceive the possible threat of a new formidable league muscling into their product, even if it is during the NFL off season, the NFL will not want to share the market with anyone. Plus why take a risk that these outsiders won't someday in the future change their minds and compete with the NFL head to head. The NFL has been extremely protective of their product like all great companies are, and there is no reason to think they won't protect themselves this time. Why take a chance right? The NFL might possibly move NFLE back to the states, add a few more teams and re-name it NFL2.

[BlackJackRob22]

Nice idea on the over saturation, but the AFL is getting good rating to thrive and at that time wrestling was getting 6.0 cable ratings. The XFL almost got a 15.0 on there first week that is over double the people that you can say are weekly wrestling fans. I understand that allot of football was going on, but no coverage, and people trying to knock it down any chance they got really limited the league. The XFL was in trouble right after the first week because of those problems.

[rjrrzube]

I always laugh when the XFL's failings are blamed on some Vast Media Conspiracy to tank the league.

There was coverage, there were scores, there was stuff like that in the media. But it wasn't big, true. Why? The league had no credibility. Why? They had yet to EARN it.

Go back and look for coverage of the AAFC in the 50s, AFL in 1960, and the USFL in 1983. How was the coverage then? The same. The leagues had yet to earn any credibility, so the coverage reflected that.

(By the way, as an aside, the first week of the XFL was on the cover of Sports Illustrated! ... no coverage?)

Just because somebody sets up an alternative league doesn't mean The Media is duty-bound to give it equal coverage to the mainstream league.

The league shot itself in the foot. They pulled in great numbers the first week (despite less-than-enthusiastic stories all over) because of viewer curiosity. And what they found was enough to drive them away. It looked like a carnival. They called the NFL (and, by implication, fans of the NFL) pantywaists. They packed the thing full of gimmicks. And, worst of all, the first national game was BORING. It wasn't enough to bring back the lion's share of viewers.

If you think everybody decides what to consume solely based on media critiques, how do you explain ANY television show, ANY movie, ANY book, ANY play becoming a financial success without media approval?

It's more complicated than that.

[rams80]

(By the way, as an aside, the first week of the XFL was on the cover of Sports Illustrated! ... no coverage)

There we go! The SI cover jinx strikes again. Why doesn't anyone blame that for the league's demise!

[Mac the Knife]

Here's my take on the XFL:

The league wasn't nearly as horrible as the media makes it out to be. The USFL and 1974-75 WFL were 1000 times worse than the XFL ever was.

:lol: Sorry... I'd respond to this, but I'm too busy laughing at it. :lol:

[USNinc]

I don't think the NFL really feared the owner of the WWE taking over the football market.
NBC was mad they lost the the bid to CBS and wanted to get keep their ratings up on Sundays.

They turned the game into some freak show that just wasn't really about football so much as entertainment that wasn't entertaining.

I don't care about nicknames on the backs of jerseys, or Brian Bosworth calling players out on the field while he does the play by play.

The NFL, or media didn't have to "band together" to make this venture fail. It did that on it's own.

[afdave]

Back to the original point of this post, the fact that the NFL is "ignoring" a players year in the XFL.

If I recall, during and even for probably almost a decade after the USFL folded, the NFL never "talked about" officially the USFL. Only after some time to reflect, look back and realize that a handful of guys who would be Pro Football HOFers played in the USFL, and not be "threatened" by the mention of "another league", did the NFL start to mention USFL numbers and years with player info.

I think a combination of those things will/would have to happen for the NFL to do the same with the XFL. Time will come. Considering the league only lasted one season, and there aren't really any outstanding players to come out from the league, I don't know that the respect angle, like with the USFL, will come to pass though.

[tony-o]

"He Hate Me, I Love You!"
An announcer said that when Rod Smart AKA He Hate Me returned a punt for 100 yards against the New Orleans Saints in 2003. He is well-known for the nickname and everyone knows it came from the XFL. One thing that will make sure that no ones forgets the XFL.

[minnfan]

I always laugh when the XFL's failings are blamed on some Vast Media Conspiracy to tank the league. There was coverage, there were scores, there was stuff like that in the media. But it wasn't big, true. Why? The league had no credibility. Why? They had yet to EARN it. Go back and look for coverage of the AAFC in the 50s, AFL in 1960, and the USFL in 1983. How was the coverage then? The same. The leagues had yet to earn any credibility, so the coverage reflected that. (By the way, as an aside, the first week of the XFL was on the cover of Sports Illustrated! ... no coverage?) Just because somebody sets up an alternative league doesn't mean The Media is duty-bound to give it equal coverage to the mainstream league. The league shot itself in the foot. They pulled in great numbers the first week (despite less-than-enthusiastic stories all over) because of viewer curiosity. And what they found was enough to drive them away. It looked like a carnival. They called the NFL (and, by implication, fans of the NFL) pantywaists. They packed the thing full of gimmicks. And, worst of all, the first national game was BORING. It wasn't enough to bring back the lion's share of viewers. If you think everybody decides what to consume solely based on media critiques, how do you explain ANY television show, ANY movie, ANY book, ANY play becoming a financial success without media approval? It's more complicated than that.


So true. You neglected to mention the bad press the WFL got as well. It took a lot longer for that league to fold because at least they played a game recognizeable as football. The XFL was a gigantic bundle of junior high school jokes and bad taste bundled with one bad marketing idea after another. Since when does a play by play man generate an ongoing argument with a head coach and get more time on the tube with it than X's and O's? Jessie Ventura was a sick joke in a sick joke league, and he was only one of a dozen or more bad ideas.

Why did the media pound on the league so badly? Because the league earned their contempt. Does media dislike convince people to ignore a league they'd otherwise want to see? No.

Why are XFL stats ignored by the NFL? The same reason they ignore the AF2 stats, the NAFL stats or any high school stats. They are meaningless.
NFLe is a miserable excuse for a pro football league, but they are far superior to the best the XFL ever did.

One poster here explained that Las Vegas had good attendance while New York and Chicago did not. Why not take the time to research before making innacurate statements? The Outlaws numbers were lower than LA while New York attendance was second only to San Francisco. So what? Just that the poster simply was repeating what others have said rather that make sure of his facts. Sort of like the XFL itself, never quite getting it right.