The Official PBL Draft Thread

[tbayz1]

Here we can keep track of players and the draft and any other info.

Heres the original PR about the Draft:

http://www.pblproball.com/news/leaguenews/index.html?article_id=63

Heres the draft order:

http://www.pblproball.com/news/leaguenews/index.html?article_id=75

Round #1

1.Detroit Panthers
2.Halifax Rainmen
3.Buffalo Stampede
4.Montreal Sasquatch
5.Augusta Groove
6.Manchester Millrats
7.Quebec City Kebs
8.Chicago Throwbacks
9.Battle Creek Knights
10.Vermont Frost Heaves
11.Mid-Michigan Destroyers
12.Rochester Razorsharks
13.Wilmington Sea Dawgs

Round #2


14. Wilmington Sea Dawgs
15. Rochester Razorsharks
16. Mid-Michigan Destroyers
17. Vermont Frost Heaves
18. Battle Creek Knights
19. Chicago Throwbacks
20. Quebec City Kebs
21. Manchester Millrats
22. Augusta Groove
23. Montreal Sasquatch
24. Buffalo Stampede
25. Halifax Rainmen
26. Detroit Panthers

[misenern]

Who stood out? Hell, who tried out?

Can anyone post a list?

[CHris902]

Anyone have any info at all about the camp or who is on the draft list or anything? The internet seems totally devoid of anything of that sort.

[misenern]

This is where the PBL should provide some info. But instead they send out releases about their uniform deal with JG Gear.

[tbayz1]

I heard any player can be selected, kind of like the CBA draft. I don't think theres a pool of limited players.

[not so fast]

As per usual the league trying to do too many things at once. And we all know the best thing they can do is get one thing working well before you start another venture.

However that being said, no one really knows how this draft really works. I am sure that the 120 players at the pbl national tryout camp, are under the impression that they were in the draft pool. Well teams are finding thier own players for the draft, so it appears that these 120 players who were there from all across the country, came to Chicago only to be dumped for each home teams local guys.

So in essence, none of the players at the national camp will be drafted. I admit, most could not play even at the pbl bench level. But five or six of them could and now they have been misled by the league.

I am not sure what the purpose of the national draft camp was, if in fact teams can sign or draft anyone else from anywhere. Too bad these players were not informed of this, the league has sent them letters about be ready for the draft. Why? when they know that none of them will be drafted. Playing with the emotions of these guys is really not a very professional way to do things by the league.

[Pounder]

There's no such thing as single-sourcing talent pools, nsf. Not if you're smart, anyway.

Of course, part of "smart" is teams arranging to draft known players in their markets to boost interest. Sometimes it works. Mostly, it's political.

The PBL has a lot of reasons for having the issues they have. This isn't one of them.

[one way]

How can they have a draft when some teams have already signed players? Some teams have signed players who played in the drqaft camp. What happens if another team drafts them?? What a mess.

[Alumni96]

How can they have a draft when some teams have already signed players? Some teams have signed players who played in the drqaft camp. What happens if another team drafts them?? What a mess.

It's a two round draft, of course they've signed players. As far as I know teams will play five players at a time.

[one way]

Let me clarify it for you. Rochester likes a Joe Blow whom they saw at the Draft Camp. Rochester signs Joe Blow. Toronto drafts Joe Blow because they liked what they saw at the Draft Camp. Joe Blow is already signed. Slow enough for you? That is a draft camp problem. Now what about the problem if the draft is open for everyone? Nobody can draft Desmond Ferguson? How can the Millrats sign a guy before the draft? Make sense to you now?

[a1sports]

Lets see....there are complaints that the PBL try -out camps have no talent there....then there are complaints that no one is drafted from the try out camps...LOL. Someone likes to stir the pot always "One way" negative.

In a draft you can choose anyone you want. PERIOD. A try out camp is just that,,..you try out, everyone thinks they are a pro player...just like lots of coaches think they are pro coaches....right Ken??? Ken, if you knew all the answers you would be in some organization...but your not.

Oh yea..it didnt take me long to run down your screen name.. so there you go Ken, always negative and always goofy reasoning is the reason I checked out who was posting such crap.
As I said, if you knew the answers youd be in some organization..your not for a reason.

[a1sports]

In other words...dont be so fast to post..Try to be " not so fast"...ok? Ken
Just heard you are mad PBL didnt give you a job..ahhhhhhhhhhh now it all makes sense. shameful

[PikevilleOT]

hmm.... shameful.... i predict more predictions!

[not so fast]

As usual, tom and the league is not addressing whats wrong with the league. If they spent more time calling the owners talking to them, and less time on the message boards, you would have a good league.

The idea of a natioinal camp was ok, but they have never defined its purpose. Secondly, did the league ever talk with the gary Steelheads about entering? It would make a good team location wise.

If battle creek left the ibl, then other teams might want to do the same. Has anyone from doyles office contacted the Holland team, the elgin team, the grand rapids team? All good franchises in the ibl.

Somehow it looks like the league is run by press releases, message boards, and fancy websites, but the fact is, that doesnt make it a good league. When 99.9 percent of the fans that might come to a game, never even read or see that stuff.

Instead of defending whats wrong with the league, they need to address it and move forward.

Mr. Doyle, if you have a vision for this league, please share it with us, cause we don't know.

[LightningMan]

nsf, as far as I know, David Stern doesn't share his vision for the NBA either.

I really, honestly don't care what the PBL's vision is, I don't care what the purpose, purported or otherwise, of the national camp was. I care if my team exists for the whole season, if it plays all of its games against its opponents, if I can afford to go to any of the games, and if my team wins. If every team makes it through the season, plays its games, and keeps its prices down, then that works for me.

Yes, there are ideals. Yes, there should be standards. No, I don't like the appear and disapppear of teams during this off season. Yes, the CEO's team not even playing troubles me. But if the PBL tips off on time and whatever the number of teams there is plays the season, then it works for me.

As someone else has noted, better to get the shaky teams out of the mix now than during the middle of the season.

[not so fast]

Well i will say this, as someone who lives in the chicago area, I want to go to the throwback games, and i think that i should be able to expect the basic things like referees there clock people, and scorekeepers. The league looks bad if teams are touring china, and then the throwbacks don't even have enough staff to man their home games.

Now if you the league, wants to blame the ownership then thats fine, but at least understand that you cant just run from team problems when they are in your league. As long as they are a part of the pbl, then that is a reflection of the pbl.

As I have said in the past and will say itr again, all I remember is the Rockford lightning games and the Gary Steelheads games when thousands of fans poured in, and there were great players playing, and great coaches, and never was I asked to run the clock. I mean players like Ronnie Fields, Leon Smith, it was truly great basketball, and that was as recently as 2005.

This is a far cry from that great era, and I would hope we could figure out a way to bring it back!

[DazedAndAmused]

Secondly, did the league ever talk with the gary Steelheads about entering? It would make a good team location wise.
.

...now the picture becomes more clear. Somebody in Gary continues to have their feelings hurt because apparently the PBL didn't court them.

Not so, Ken, did you ever think to pick up the phone and call them? (Someone else suggested previously that your owner was "waiting for their call.") I don't know about your funding or attendance, but the pics of your venue look good. Your location would seem good to them too. From all accounts, Gary seemed to be one of the strongest IBL clubs.

If you did call, since you bring it up, why the rejection? (It is rhetorical to a degree..I'm not sure if you really know or not.) But, you question the ability of the other teams picked up to succeed, so if these teams were deemed "worthy", but not Gary, I am interested in the reason. It would also indicate that there is at least some criteria (which some of us legitimately question) to which teams are in and out.

Apparently, you believe the PBL uses this board to communicate, so I hope they log on to clarify. (Incidentally, I don't think they care about most of us who read this boards...I only say that b/c if they were managing by OSC perception, a few things would likely be different.)

But is all of this moot? Does Gary even exist anymore for this to be a topic of discussion? (I don't know...just asking.) Is the implication that they might exist if the PBL let them in?

[Ken, Steelheads fan]

The idea of a natioinal camp was ok, but they have never defined its purpose. Secondly, did the league ever talk with the gary Steelheads about entering? It would make a good team location wise.


The PBL is still a relatively expensive league. No, I don't believe that stuff about profit sharing paying for all of a team's operating expenses in the next three years. Also, the PBL schedule competes with the latter portion of the Indiana high school basketball schedule.

[Ken, Steelheads fan]

...now the picture becomes more clear. Somebody in Gary continues to have their feelings hurt because apparently the PBL didn't court them.


If you are referring to A1's posting about Ken this and Ken that then I assure you that I'm not the person in question. Writing styles don't match and IP's don't match.

[DazedAndAmused]

If you are referring to A1's posting about Ken this and Ken that then I assure you that I'm not the person in question. Writing styles don't match and IP's don't match.

I'm referring to not so's quote that i copied in my post.

You get lumped in on all things Gary b/c I figure you must have some knowledge based on your prior posts.

I don't care about outing any indidviduals, just their agendas if they show obvious bias. (But, for the record, IPs not matching and writing styles do not a defense make!)

My agenda at this point is seeing more cooperation between the independent leagues, both between the PBL and CBA, and even perhaps the IBL and ABA(with the right controls and people in place.)

If you believe in nonNBA affiliated minor leagues and that's where you make a living, you will want the same because those that are funding these leagues to a significant degree (I'm talking sponsors here) will not stay around for any of you otherwise.

[DazedAndAmused]

...now the picture becomes more clear. Somebody in Gary continues to have their feelings hurt because apparently the PBL didn't court them.

Not so, Ken, did you ever think to pick up the phone and call them? (Someone else suggested previously that your owner was "waiting for their call.") I don't know about your funding or attendance, but the pics of your venue look good. Your location would seem good to them too. From all accounts, Gary seemed to be one of the strongest IBL clubs.

If you did call, since you bring it up, why the rejection? (It is rhetorical to a degree..I'm not sure if you really know or not.) But, you question the ability of the other teams picked up to succeed, so if these teams were deemed "worthy", but not Gary, I am interested in the reason. It would also indicate that there is at least some criteria (which some of us legitimately question) to which teams are in and out.

Apparently, you believe the PBL uses this board to communicate, so I hope they log on to clarify. (Incidentally, I don't think they care about most of us who read this boards...I only say that b/c if they were managing by OSC perception, a few things would likely be different.)

But is all of this moot? Does Gary even exist anymore for this to be a topic of discussion? (I don't know...just asking.) Is the implication that they might exist if the PBL let them in?

....to answer another's question......inquiring minds want to know.

[CHris902]

Draft news from Halifax:

http://thechronicleherald.ca/Sports/1084533.html

[Alumni96]

"Levingston said the league schedule is expected to be released shortly. The Rainmen will play most of their games against northeast opponents such as Vermont, Manchester, Quebec and Rochester, N.Y."

I noted a distinct lack of a mention of Montreal. Is this simply an accidental omission or are they one of the 3 teams having difficulties.

[CHris902]

Could just be a case where he didn't want to list all teams they'll be playing and the reporter didn't want to mention both QC and Montreal. Or it could just be the teams coming to play in Halifax. I wouldn't read too much into it.

[DazedAndAmused]

Could just be a case where he didn't want to list all teams they'll be playing and the reporter didn't want to mention both QC and Montreal. Or it could just be the teams coming to play in Halifax. I wouldn't read too much into it.

I think the "3 having trouble" from another poster refers to 3 teams that were looking together at the CBA and PBL from the ABA. They chose the PBL (for whatever reason) but the CBA is working very hard to keep the lines of communication open to try to get them in next year. (At least that's what I was told.) These teams are enjoying being courted....why not?

Supposedly, Montreal has been active in meetings and the 13 teams are set.

[CHris902]

More info from the PBL draft via Halifax (http://www.metronews.ca/halifax/sports/article/126405)

- Teams will have "exclusive negotiating" rights within the PBL until November 16, then all bets are off. So basically, it doesn't mean much.
- Halifax have already talked to their planned pick and are convinced he will sign and come up here to play.
- It starts streaming at 7pm est.

[tbayz1]

http://www.pblproball.com/news/leaguenews/index.html?article_id=75

[tbayz1]

http://www.metronews.ca/halifax/sports/article/126754

Looks like we already have our first players picked in the PBL Draft. Halifax has 2 PRs about both players they picked today already up on OSC as well as the newspaper article. Looks like they got the big men they wanted! They should be better than last season if they get guys like Silverhorn, Crookshank, Richard, and Twyman back as well to go along with the picks!

I'm surprised they didn't wait on the announcements until after the formal draft festivities tonight.

[tbayz1]

Rochester
http://www.oursportscentral.com/services/releases/?id=3728985

They took a local product, Brian Jackson, and traded their 2nd round pick for "JO" the Thai player who played briefly with the Nighthawks last year due to an injury. Seems that the 'Sharks had a pretty weak draft, but with Rod Baker as coach, he will again put a very good team on the floor like he has every year in Rochester. I'm sure he has some good FAs ready to sign!

Battle Creek
http://www.oursportscentral.com/services/releases/?id=3728988

Battle Creek with their first pick, picked Kenny Langhorne, a member of the Arkansas Impact last year. Hes also played in the ABA and IBL in the past. Then in the 2nd they picked Duke Cleveland who has played for the Knights the last few previous seasons.

[CHris902]

So I get that everyone is drafting players whom they've already signed at that the draft is almost entirely for show. But c'mon vermont! Couldn't they have pretended to draft players who they hadn't already announced as signing with the team weeks ago? Couldn't they at least fake-draft a player who hasn't been with them for 2 years? Keep up appearances, guys!

http://www.oursportscentral.com/services/releases/?id=3729013

[Alumni96]

Ahh the pomp and the majesty of a "draft" at the ESPNzone. Christ what a joke. I wonder if they fooled any sponsors today. I sure the media was riveted. The money they spent on this farce should have been put into the website. Maybe now we can move on a get an actual fricken schedule. Assuming they know who's actually going to play this year.

[tbayz1]

Here are all of the draft picks:
http://www.oursportscentral.com/services/releases/?id=3729010

And here is the PR about the Frost Heaves picks:
http://www.oursportscentral.com/services/releases/?id=3729013

Both Bryant and Lay were recently signed before the draft, both look to be promising players. Bryant is returning again to the Heaves for his third season and Lay is coming off a good season overseas.

[DazedAndAmused]

So I get that everyone is drafting players whom they've already signed at that the draft is almost entirely for show. But c'mon vermont! Couldn't they have pretended to draft players who they hadn't already announced as signing with the team weeks ago? Couldn't they at least fake-draft a player who hasn't been with them for 2 years? Keep up appearances, guys!

http://www.oursportscentral.com/services/releases/?id=3729013

We have to be honest and admit this is entirely for show....certainly with this level of player these teams likely had to "ID" and "protect" (if not sign) their picks in advance. Otherwise, the logistics and budget would prohibit this. The real question is did sponsors buy it? I have gotten word that there were alot there and the event was professionally done....baseball caps, suits, the whole thing. If they sign some sponsors, it was worth it.

[tbayz1]

We have to be honest and admit this is entirely for show....certainly with this level of player these teams likely had to "ID" and "protect" (if not sign) their picks in advance. Otherwise, the logistics and budget would prohibit this. The real question is did sponsors buy it? I have gotten word that there were alot there and the event was professionally done....baseball caps, suits, the whole thing. If they sign some sponsors, it was worth it.

The Millrats put up 2 photos, www.manchestermillrats.com

Looks pretty impressive!!

[CHris902]

We have to be honest and admit this is entirely for show....certainly with this level of player these teams likely had to "ID" and "protect" (if not sign) their picks in advance. Otherwise, the logistics and budget would prohibit this. The real question is did sponsors buy it? I have gotten word that there were alot there and the event was professionally done....baseball caps, suits, the whole thing. If they sign some sponsors, it was worth it.

I get that it's all for show, I just wish the Frost Heaves would have kept up appearances and made a better show of it.

[CHris902]

The Millrats put up 2 photos, www.manchestermillrats.com

Looks pretty impressive!!

Woah - it definitely looks good!

There's a really impressive looking picture on the pbl website. They did a really good job making it look professional.
http://pblproball.com.ismmedia.com/ISM3/std-content/repos/Top/News/frontdraft2.jpg

[not so fast]

The real question for the pbl and has always been the real question in my eyes is talent level of the players. The impressive espn staged show draft is great for a show, but what is the product like? Are they prepared as a league to give players a decent wage to keep them interested in playing in the league? Or are we going the walmart route and just getting rid of all competition leagues, so they have no choice but to play wear the walmart brand of clothing. cause there is no other stores.

If in fact they paid for flights for these players, and put them in hotels in downtown Chicago, I got a think the cost of this might rival some of the pay of some of the players that played in the league for a season last year.

With the CBA on a downward climb, and the USBL gone, the pbl and ibl certainly have there chance to be good leagues. But for me, the leagues are only defined by the talent that is on the floor. And I know this is direct contrast to what this league thinks. These leagues look at it from a business perspective 1st. And that is why I know I have had differences with the leagues.

Finally i think the league would be wise not to do these national tryout camps, they serve no real purpose, at least the way they have been ran so far. Each team has the right to draft who they want and that is fine, but why have 120 players come from all over the country just to be led on? At least be honest and explain the whole process, that each team can still draft who they want, and can select someone else that is not at the camp. Camps should be just run by individual teams at there own discretion. that would solve this unfortunate bad p.r. tryout camp!

[DazedAndAmused]

But for me, the leagues are only defined by the talent that is on the floor.

I appreciate the "for me", because that indicates you are from a coaching background for the most part (which is not meant as an accusation or insult), but it does indicate perspective.

Truthfully, the "only" in your statement would be the end of the independent minor leagues. (It is of course key to the Dleague.) In the independents, there needs to be a baseline of level of talent that needs to be of a professional quality for sure. Beyond that, the local markets need marketable "characters" of that baseline quality that stay more than a season.

There was a great quote on a syndicated sports show this week. It was related to the EliteXC martial arts league. "If you're a circus, it's OK to have a few clowns under the tent." Now, I don't mean to imply that the PBL is a circus, but they shouldn't try to be the Dleague either.

Not so, you sound like a perfect Dleague coach. I hope you get there.

[not so fast]

Thanks dazed, but I have no interest in coaching. I do have a passion for quality competitive sports, and in that regard you are correct. I am not sure how or why anyone would want and sell what is really semi recreational basketball as professional sports, but then again let me use my over used analogy again, its like Sams club cola being sold as coke or pepsi. Some people dont really mine, but I always have to have my pepsi or coke.

I would like to see a Dleague team however somewhere in the Chicago area, or at least within 2 hours of Chicago. All I have is the throwbacks, the steelheads, the elgin racers, and the chicago heights soldiers. And by the way, I know all the owners of all these teams, and they are very good people.

Minorleague basketball is truly in its worst state ever. certainly here in the Chicago area. And that is a shame when I know that Chicago is known for having quality basketball players!

[zeke41]

Minorleague basketball is truly in its worst state ever. certainly here in the Chicago area. And that is a shame when I know that Chicago is known for having quality basketball players!

Lets see if that can be fixed next season, Not so Fast!

;)

[ABA Champs times 2]

I get that it's all for show, I just wish the Frost Heaves would have kept up appearances and made a better show of it.

Chris, I don't think that "keeping up appearences" is Will Voigt's main focus. He is trying to put together another championship team and has a plan (I am sure) on how he is going to build this team. I am sure that he does not need a draft as help.

[CHris902]

Anyone know where we can see the video. I can't find it anywhere on the PBL website.


Chris, I don't think that "keeping up appearences" is Will Voigt's main focus. He is trying to put together another championship team and has a plan (I am sure) on how he is going to build this team. I am sure that he does not need a draft as help.

It shouldn't be his main focus, but the GM or someone else in the front office should have made that a priority. It's a missed marketing opportunity and undermines everyone else. They could have just sat out the announcements or announced some of the other players they've signed/come close to signing.

[Alumni96]

Anyone know where we can see the video. I can't find it anywhere on the PBL website.




It shouldn't be his main focus, but the GM or someone else in the front office should have made that a priority. It's a missed marketing opportunity and undermines everyone else. They could have just sat out the announcements or announced some of the other players they've signed/come close to signing.

So your position is that the they should have wasted time and resources on something that anyone with half a brain can see was a complete waste of time. It was nothing more than a smoke and light show. I actually wouldn't care if the rest of the league was on solid footing. Instead the website is a complete mess and they still don't have schedule or division structure. Their priorities seem out of whack to me. It leads to my frustrated ranting. I hate that.

[Alumni96]

LOL. You think I'm a bizarro world version of A1? Drafting players you've already signed...now that's bizarro world. Here I thought your drafted players and THEN tryed to sign them. The draft in ANY minor league hoops operation is a joke. The league wasted resources that could have been put to other things. Just to try to pass itself off as something it is not.

[tbayz1]

they still don't have schedule or division structure.

This looks like the division structure, it will probably be officially released with the schedule (which I heard should be very soon!)

EAST
Buffalo
Rochester
Augusta
Wilmington

MID-WEST
Battle Creek
Detroit
Mid-Michigan
Chicago

ATLANTIC
Vermont
Manchester
Quebec
Montreal
Halifax

[one way]

Does anyone know if the Chicago Sun Times or the Chicago Tribune covered this event?

[tbayz1]

http://www.pblproball.com/news/leaguenews/index.html?article_id=81

[Ken, Steelheads fan]

Does anyone know if the Chicago Sun Times or the Chicago Tribune covered this event?

Judging by the silence and faint sound of crickets after your question, I think it's a safe assumption that the (major league) Chicago media didn't touch this event with a ten-foot pole. 8)

The same event could have been held in Rochester, but this time during prime hours (after 5pm) instead of 1pm while tables were being bussed after the lunch crowd. The same guys could have worn their same cool-looking suits, but this time the hustle and bustle of excited Rochester fans in the background could add to the atmosphere. The local media would have jumped all over this event. A photo spread (independent of the PBL) would have been likely since this WAS the draft and not just a team draft party.

...but the advantages and disadvantages had to be weighed. Which was better? Make a big splash in a PBL friendly town or have the ability to say, From ESPNZone in Downtown Chicago... A tough decision for some to make.

[one way]

Here is a question for you. Will the cost of Willie Mitchel's flight from Detroit to Chicago, his hotel room and his food bill while he is at the draft be more or less then the total amount of dollars he will be paid this year by the Detroit franchise?

[PikevilleOT]

how many "draft picks" were present at the draft this year? i may have overlooked it if already mentioned (apologies if I have).
Was anyone drafted that was not already under contract?
Anyone drafted that was at the Chicago free agent camp earlier this year?

The pictures looked good so hopefully some sponsors were impressed.

[CHris902]

how many "draft picks" were present at the draft this year? i may have overlooked it if already mentioned (apologies if I have).
Was anyone drafted that was not already under contract?
Anyone drafted that was at the Chicago free agent camp earlier this year?

The pictures looked good so hopefully some sponsors were impressed.

I think that the entire first round (14 people) were there from what I saw from the video of the draft.

I have no idea re: the draft camp.

I think that a lot of teams had guys signed but waited to announce them until after the draft. I don't think that anyone found out about what team they were going to on draft day, that's for sure.

[not so fast]

No one from the chicago camp was drafted. as I said earlier, I am sure this was the last national camp. it serves no purpose.

The only way to do a draft is to do what the D league does and thats pre screen players for a league draft. otherwise its a waste of time. Plus, finding the best players and coaches, and then paying them is not the objective of the league.

With the way the league is structured, it appears a couple of teams in the east will be way stronger because of paying the players decent salary.

What I don't understand is that Rochester is certainly an outstanding franchise and one of the best run in all of minorleague basketball. How can they not then require that the other teams meet most of the standards that they have in place to run an organization? It is certainly clear that someone involved in the pbl (in rochester), clearly understands how teams should be run. Is it just that hard to find other owners, or is that people are not forthcoming when they accept them as a owner?

[DazedAndAmused]

Is it just that hard to find other owners

Yep. Ownership money is running from minor league basketball and you can hardly blame those with the money. There are a hundred (actually a thousand) better ways to invest your money and spend your time. Thank those who have devalued the minor league basketball product. (You know who you are.)

The only way to get bring minor league ball back is to bring national sponsors in. These types of sponsors will insist on a certain level of quality that will be somewhat self regulating. It is not an easy proposition, but the effort has to start somewhare.

Regarding comments about cost to fly players to the draft (and cost of the ESPN zone draft in general), I suspect that the cost per player was on the order of a month's salary. But, it is a much better investment to attract sponsors to spend it on the draft than to give it to coaches and players at this point. There won't be any independent league to employ coaches and players otherwise. Thinking its all about the coaches and players will kill what little is left of independent minor league ball.

[DazedAndAmused]

how many "draft picks" were present at the draft this year? i may have overlooked it if already mentioned (apologies if I have).
Was anyone drafted that was not already under contract?
Anyone drafted that was at the Chicago free agent camp earlier this year?

The pictures looked good so hopefully some sponsors were impressed.

It is quite clear this draft was all about marketing and that players likely all knew who they were going to in advance with few if any exceptions.

So, these questions continue to be curious. The CBA interested in this draft for some reason?

[preeths]

I was impressed with the quality of the draft presentation. Excellent for a minor league.

[Jimmytwotimes]

CHris902.....Vermont wasn't the only team to "draft" players they have already signed. Look at Battle creek, they did the same thing, and im sure there were others.

[PikevilleOT]

It is quite clear this draft was all about marketing and that players likely all knew who they were going to in advance with few if any exceptions.

So, these questions continue to be curious. The CBA interested in this draft for some reason?

You must be more dazed than usual as my inquiries have no bearing or implication on the interest of the CBA per my original post.

In fact, my questions were neutral and I was even complimentary of the pictures posted and I wished the league well in obtaining sponsors. If the marketing was successful, the PBL should have picked up some much needed sponsors for the upcoming season.

I thank you for following my posts though and I approve of your hallway-monitor mentality..:p

[PikevilleOT]

Does anyone know if the Chicago Sun Times or the Chicago Tribune covered this event?

I checked online but saw nothing of the draft; however, there were some pictures posted with a good writeup on the draft available here at OSC. The teams that have responded all seem pleased with the atmosphere and results of the draft.

[DazedAndAmused]

You must be more dazed than usual as my inquiries have no bearing or implication on the interest of the CBA per my original post.

In fact, my questions were neutral and I was even complimentary of the pictures posted and I wished the league well in obtaining sponsors. If the marketing was successful, the PBL should have picked up some much needed sponsors for the upcoming season.

I thank you for following my posts though and I approve of your hallway-monitor mentality..:p

Glad you approve. However, I simply pointed out that your questions were "curious" given your prior posts, and it obviously hit a nerve. You're a CBA guy (which is cool) who has found some need to engage in the "league wars" that hurt the business as a whole. I am simply pointing this out. If you want to become Pike1sports, I guess that's up to you.

[PikevilleOT]

nope. no nerve was hit and I have no "league wars" mentality at all...as I have friends in multiple leagues..yes, even the ABA....(blush)...

My need to engage is simply the result of another poster's (yes, we know who I was replying to) insistance for self-promotion by revealing "insider" information with some predicitons thrown in for shock value. My banter back and forth is not that different than verbal jabs tossed back and forth between Ken and yourself. I just chose not to comment on them.

Feel free to review my postings,as you probably already have, and I have always been a proponent for all leagues (not for papa joe, but yes for the aba). I just found it infuriating that the person that I responded to posted freely with negative diatribe about the ABA/CBA yet withheld "insider" information I know he had about some teams in the PBL with the same issues he criticized the other leagues for. I did rethink my replies and have chosen to avoid engaging in ways that seem to convey a turf war or league war mentality.

I guess we all get a little off-sides or lost along the way at times.

[DazedAndAmused]

nope. no nerve was hit and I have no "league wars" mentality at all...as I have friends in multiple leagues..yes, even the ABA....(blush)...

My need to engage is simply the result of another poster's (yes, we know who I was replying to) insistance for self-promotion by revealing "insider" information with some predicitons thrown in for shock value. My banter back and forth is not that different than verbal jabs tossed back and forth between Ken and yourself. I just chose not to comment on them.

Feel free to review my postings,as you probably already have, and I have always been a proponent for all leagues (not for papa joe, but yes for the aba). I just found it infuriating that the person that I responded to posted freely with negative diatribe about the ABA/CBA yet withheld "insider" information I know he had about some teams in the PBL with the same issues he criticized the other leagues for. I did rethink my replies and have chosen to avoid engaging in ways that seem to convey a turf war or league war mentality.

I guess we all get a little off-sides or lost along the way at times.

...like you said, I'm the hall monitor. :)

As far as any comparison to any banter I have had with others, the difference is that I try to call out those with obvious personal agendas in their attacks (it's pretty easy to pick those out), but I don't respond back with the "why your league stinks worse" MO. Why? Because there is enough stink to go around, and this business may die without more cooperation.

I don't think this is a fans' board per se so for that reason I actually do believe OSC has some influence on the business side. There are mostly coaches, GMs, staff, and owners that post here. I haven't found another sponsor (like me) yet, but I think there may be one or two of those lurking as well. Because of that, I think it's worth trying to re-set the tone here, purging the knuckleheads.

Personally, I may not continue to support minor league basketball if things don't change. I am seeing too many mistakes being made, at a time when there are opportunities to exploit (albeit not as many as there used to be.)

[Ken, Steelheads fan]

nope. no nerve was hit and I have no "league wars" mentality at all...as I have friends in multiple leagues..yes, even the ABA....(blush)...

My need to engage is simply the result of another poster's (yes, we know who I was replying to) insistance for self-promotion by revealing "insider" information with some predicitons thrown in for shock value. My banter back and forth is not that different than verbal jabs tossed back and forth between Ken and yourself. I just chose not to comment on them.

Feel free to review my postings,as you probably already have, and I have always been a proponent for all leagues (not for papa joe, but yes for the aba). I just found it infuriating that the person that I responded to posted freely with negative diatribe about the ABA/CBA yet withheld "insider" information I know he had about some teams in the PBL with the same issues he criticized the other leagues for. I did rethink my replies and have chosen to avoid engaging in ways that seem to convey a turf war or league war mentality.

I guess we all get a little off-sides or lost along the way at times.

Hey PikevilleOT,
You're obeying the rules of the discussion forum. Post whatever you want to post. Who cares what some self-appointed bore thinks!?! That's what a forum is for...discussion.

[LightningMan]

Hey PikevilleOT,
You're obeying the rules of the discussion forum. Post whatever you want to post. Who cares what some self-appointed bore thinks!?! That's what a forum is for...discussion.
Your ears should be burning.

[DazedAndAmused]

Hey PikevilleOT,
You're obeying the rules of the discussion forum. Post whatever you want to post. Who cares what some self-appointed bore thinks!?! That's what a forum is for...discussion.


I agree, post whatever you want. I never said you shouldn't.

[DazedAndAmused]

Your ears should be burning.

My ears are burning, and Ken's pants are on fire. :D

[zeke41]

In PikevilleOT's defense, he is not just a CBA guy. He's a big Minor league guy, and not just basketball. He's probably a bigger Minor league baseball fan.

Anyway, he's been following the PBL more since I'll be playing in the PBL this coming season.

[DazedAndAmused]

In PikevilleOT's defense, he is not just a CBA guy. He's a big Minor league guy, and not just basketball. He's probably a bigger Minor league baseball fan.

Anyway, he's been following the PBL more since I'll be playing in the PBL this coming season.

ken and pike......I took this off topic and my own intent ....my bad....keep on posting...peace

[zeke41]

ALL---RIGHTY---THEN....

Anyway, I think the draft was awesome! Finally, a league that throws a little extra at the players. Even if some of these guys were signed already or knew where they were going...the prestige and professionalism displayed towards these guys will impact their careers. There is no question whether or not the PBL appreciates their players (unlike some other leagues). Some of them need to work on their interviewing skills, but I'm sure, if things continue to progress in this manner for the PBL, they will.

Sure...I have an agenda...I'm playing in the PBL next season. I have nothing bad to say about the CBA, and the ABA circus will be what it is (I don't need to speak on that). All I know is that I get behind things I believe in, and I believe in the PBL, but I don't need to do that by dragging any of the other leagues down. I have my issues with certain people that have crossed my path and manipulated me, but, to this day, every experience that I've had with the people involved with the PBL has been solid...nothing but professional!

When Joe Newman figured he had no liability to assist me in any way after getting rolled over by the Orlando/Las Vegas Orangemen/Aces, the PBL leadership reached out to me to show empathy (even before departing from the league). I could have been in the PBL last season if I hadn't made a commitment to the East Kentucky Miners (even though that commitment involved initially sticking around without pay, practicing my butt off, under-paid labor, paying $200/month out of my own pocket for a place to live, etc. ---- what can I say, I'm loyal to my word!!!). However, I'm a loyal guy. I didn't bail on the Aces when they needed me, and I didn't bail on the Miners when I "committed" to stay even though it was costing me money (I really wanted to play professional basketball in my old college town).

Now, 2 years later, I'm headed to this league, and I will tell my good faith and opportunity story until I'm blue in the face. If the PBL was just business-minded, they wouldn't care about a guy like me...but they do, and have shown it by bringing me opportunities over the last 2 years to help me achieve what I am trying to do.

Look at me...no high school basketball experience, 1 college varsity game at an NAIA school, and going on my third year as a professional player. I'm the epitome of why minor league basketball should exist. I work, work, work, work, work, work, work, my butt off, and I guarantee I work harder than these guys with the big school experience resume. My hope has always been that I'm able to get the opportunities to get better and continue to learn and progress as a player. The Minor leagues have given me and many other guys that opportunity, and many of us wouldn't be able to pursue our passion to play if the Minor Leagues didn't exist.

Seeing the PBL come through and do things differently...in many ways FOR THE PLAYERS (High class Player Draft, TV deal that works, player interviews, travel team in China, etc.)...is a breath of fresh air!

[psbf]

I don't know what team you're playing on Zeke, but I'll miss you in the CBA. One bright spot is you won't be an opponent of the Xplosion lol
Seriously, though, I wish you well and I'm sure you will do great. From what I've seen, the PBL is a very good league with much potential and a bright future.

[not so fast]

psbf I was wondering the same thing to zeke. What team are going to be on? I mean zeke you came to the national camp and was not even selected for the top 20 players their, and none of the players in the top twenty were drafted, so I was just curious what team has signed you? and by the way congratulations.

[basketball facts]

Yes that is true, but do not forget he has a real cool web site. That alone makes him viable for any team looking to win a championship.

[runninref]

Do you guys remember the basketball team in HS? Each team has a guy with a 4.0 gpa that is a good influence on the rest of the team. This guy may not be the quickest, the best shooter, or the most productive on the court but he brings with him necessary qualities to help make a successful season. That guy in the minor leagues is Zeke. He isn't the best athlete, however, his head and heart are in the right place. He is a great influence on younger players. He knows the game. He says and does all of the right things. He is a crowd favorite. He works his butt off without complaints. Quite frankly if I owned a minor league team, he would be the first I would call to fill out the roster. Please cut the man some slack ... understand he will never be an NBA star (I'm sure he understands this). And see Zeke for what he is ... whatever his team needs him to be.:mrgreen:

[not so fast]

runnin ref, with all due respect, there are lots of players like zeke out there, they just don' t happen to post on osc. that does not make them any less a person or player cause they don't have thier own website and dont banter back and forth on this message board.

Plenty of guys work hard, play hard and would do anything for an opportunity, just like zeke, some better players than him, some not as good. But the notion that he has this lock on being the underdog guy who needs to be anointed to a team based on those credentials, is not realistic.

I have run so many camps over the years, where guys have driven or flown from all over the country some have even come as far as japan, to tryout for a team in the states. Many of them great guys, dedicated, make all the sacrifiices. but if you use this as criteria of selecting players, then believe me, they would get all ten spots, because typically, the more talented players have an ego, and arrogance.

Now if you say to me, that each team should have a zeke on it, then thats different. But lets not give him the halo, and forget thousands of others who are just like him who have un heard voices on osc.

[Ken, Steelheads fan]

Do you guys remember the basketball team in HS? Each team has a guy with a 4.0 gpa that is a good influence on the rest of the team. This guy may not be the quickest, the best shooter, or the most productive on the court but he brings with him necessary qualities to help make a successful season. That guy in the minor leagues is Zeke. He isn't the best athlete, however, his head and heart are in the right place. He is a great influence on younger players. He knows the game. He says and does all of the right things. He is a crowd favorite. He works his butt off without complaints. Quite frankly if I owned a minor league team, he would be the first I would call to fill out the roster. Please cut the man some slack ... understand he will never be an NBA star (I'm sure he understands this). And see Zeke for what he is ... whatever his team needs him to be.:mrgreen:

Geez! It's supposed to be professional ball, with all due respect. Therefore, it's a business. Roster spots cost money, any way you slice it (insurance, meals, travel, payroll, etc.). If a franchise feels placing a non-traditional player on the team is well worth the costs, then cool. However, it can also backfire in the PR department. Remember Leon from the beer commercials about 4 years ago? Well, the Schaumburg Flyers thought it would be a good public relations move if they put the actor that played Leon on their roster for a season. Well, it seemed like a good idea until the team went on an extended losing streak and didn't make the playoffs. The die-hard Schaumburg fans never forgave management for wasting a roster spot.

[basketball facts]

Ken you are again missing the boat on this. I have to side Dazed when it comes to disagreeing with you. Not only does Zeke bring a cool web site to the table but he also played one game at a small college program. Still not convinced? Well he also played one game for the CBA. Come on Ken. See the light.

[misenern]

Ken you are again missing the boat on this. I have to side Dazed when it comes to disagreeing with you. Not only does Zeke bring a cool web site to the table but he also played one game at a small college program. Still not convinced? Well he also played one game for the CBA. Come on Ken. See the light.

What do you have against the guy?

Zeke, keep up the good work. Your passion has obviously caught the eye of more than few basketball people. You are putting yourself out there and working to show everyone what the game means to you. That's what separated you from the rest of the pack. It's not just about skill; it's about the intangibles that you can bring to a team.

[Ken, Steelheads fan]

Ken you are again missing the boat on this. I have to side Dazed when it comes to disagreeing with you. Not only does Zeke bring a cool web site to the table but he also played one game at a small college program. Still not convinced? Well he also played one game for the CBA. Come on Ken. See the light.

I'm not sure how I can be missing the boat. If a team feels he is a great addition, then more power to them. However, each roster spot costs money. Is the team utilizing their roster spots effectively? Who knows?!? The example I gave about Leon is a true story. The die-hard Schaumburg fans are STILL upset with management to this day. Personally, I think those fans need to let it go because the Leon beer commercials were very popular at the time. It was good PR. The Schaumburg Flyers weren't going to win anyway because Gary had an awesome team that year and won it all.

[zeke41]

Guys...I don't need the halo. I appreciate the support AND the critical analysis. I'm an "actions" kind of guy! I don't need favors...I need opportunity, and I've been fortunate to be given opportunity in my life, and I make full use of it when it comes. And so long as opportunity continues to come, I'll just keep to the journey that God has laid before me and see what comes of it.

I let my game do the talking, but if you want an opinion about my game, go ask guys like Alex Hill (coming to a D-League near you), Jason Mcleish, Mike Dean, Bryant Northern, James "Boo" Jackson, Josh Pace, Lawrence Barnes, Marcus Heard, Steve Thomas, Byron Allen, or any other teammate of mine that were also one unbelievers at first glance.

And for the record, no one has a story like mine, and no one I know has had the experience, educational background and vision to make it more than just a game. I'm making an impact on people's lives all over the place! This isn't all about me, folks...it's about having the American Spirit and dedication to go after what you really want out of life!

I'm extremely happy with the way things have gone in my career. I've accomplished things that all of the critics suggested was impossible. First it was, "Oh, but he only played one varsity game in college!" Then it was, "Oh, but he played most of the season for free in Orlando in the ABA! That's not exactly professional...it's rec. league!" Then it was "He signed a contract in the CBA through Veterans Camp, but didn't make the active roster!" Then it was, "But he only played one game in the CBA!"

What is wrong with a guy making the most out of life? What's wrong with wanting to inspire others to go harder and not settle for the easy road? I'm living proof that hard work pays off if you make the most of opportunities. Laugh all you want...pour the sarcasm on...I'll be the one with all of the stories and experience when it is all done...not the one living with regrets from missed opportunities.

Where are all the people that swore I'd never play in the CBA? The video doesn't lie...if you leave me open, I will knock down the open NBA-range 3-pointer, even if I am coming in at the 3rd quarter cold as ice off the bench!

[basketball facts]

Ken, please don't get all sensitive on me. Tongue and cheek. I agree with you. I can read the quotes in paper now. "We lost by forty tonight and our five fans left at half-time, but please visit our cool web site and remember we have the highest gpa in the league."

[Ken, Steelheads fan]

Ken, please don't get all sensitive on me. Tongue and cheek. I agree with you. I can read the quotes in paper now. "We lost by forty tonight and our five fans left at half-time, but please visit our cool web site and remember we have the highest gpa in the league."

Yeah, I'm real slow today. I caught on after I read it again and again and caught the sarcasm after a few hours. The part about the website threw me off and I almost posted that I had a MySpace page that chicks really dig therefore I should get a roster spot somewhere. 8)

No, I never take myself too seriously therefore I'm not the sensitive type.

[CHris902]

You guys just need to back off already.


I will admit that I don't totally get Mark's thing. My own beliefs and politics mean that I find the faith based aspects of how he lives his life to be puzzling. But I do get that he is choosing to try to pursue a dream to play semi-pro basketball and not compromising his beliefs while doing so and I think that's admirable. At the very least I don't think that it's deserving of internet mudslinging.


So what if he isn't throwing down dunks or grabbing ten boards a game? Teams obviously see some value in what he provides, but that a few extra people in the stands, a few positive press articles, tons of good community work, helping out guys on the team when it comes to personal/spiritual issues, providing help breaking down tape or whatever. All of these things are important and hard to come by in minor league sports. Every team signs guys who won't play a lot of minutes - why not Mark? Is there any evidence that he has had a net negative impact on a team he's played for?

Part of what makes following minor league sports fun is stories like this. The costs associated with him getting a roster spot were outweighed by the benefits according to two different organizations. That's more than can be said about most guys who come through the minor league revolving door.

[PikevilleOT]

we are WAY off topic here.. start a new thread is my suggestion.... or close this one down to restart it.

[tbayz1]

we are WAY off topic here.. start a new thread is my suggestion.... or close this one down to restart it.

I agree...

[zeke41]

As I was saying...I think the PBL Draft was awesome! And I will add...it will be interesting to see the presentation of the D-League Draft on November 7th. From a presentation standpoint, it will give the PBL a measuring stick to see where they are with presentation, which is key for sponsors. If a product isn't presented properly, they won't be involved.

My experience to back that statement? The Aces venue in 2006 (the Downtown Rec. Center) was near one of the worst neighborhoods of Orlando. On top of that, our presentation lacked because we didn't have $$$$!!! I made connections with companies like Saturn, but obviously I couldn't close the deal with that, and it probably had a lot to do with presentation!

And I should add that the PBL flew people in for the draft...I don't think the D-League is doing so (I could be worng). One of my friends, former teammate, and training partner...Alex Hill, will be drafted this season by one of the D-League teams (by the way, remember the name, because he is the real deal). Instead of being at the draft, he'll be at home. It should be interesting to see whether the draft has any coverage, video up, player interviews, etc. like the PBL did.

On another note...good or bad...at least I know I can create a buzz! :)

[not so fast]

zeke, this is getting a little old. please don't even try and compare the d league to anything about the pbl. That is plain silly. 1st of all, the dleague draft is on the NBA channel which is in many cable packges throughout the country and the world. Secondly, it is sponsored by the NBA!!!! Enuf said!

There isnt anything that the pbl does better than the dleague, except talk on the message boards. In spite of what people might think, I am not hostile against the pbl. but I do like to deal in reality.

Zeke, could any of the players drafted in the PBL, make a d-league roster? How many players signed in the pbl could make a d league roster? If a fancy draft was all it took then why don't the players jump from the d league to the pbl?

Zeke I am sure you are wonderful young man. But as one christian to another, where is your humility? you are using lines like "I am making a impact on lives all over the place". That seems a little self serving, and with all do respect, I and other people were making impact on lives before you were even born, but i don't go on message boards and shout it from the mountain tops.

I hope you have a great and long career, and i hope you keep doing what ever good work you are doing, but these teams are a business, and again you have not cornered the market on being a good student and working hard at basketball. And this is basketball, not english, or ecology, or anything like that. If I use that logic, then the throwbacks might wanna sign barak obama!

[PikevilleOT]

Zeke, that would be cool to be teammates with Obama..btw, the PBL does have Desmond who did have some NBA time to his credit.

[zeke41]

Here we go again...we're on a discussion board, having a "discussion" about a "PBL Draft" in a "PBL Draft Thread", and I get sideswiped and talked down to because...well, I don't know why!

It's not worth it to do the research regarding whether PBL players can make a D-League roster, but thanks to PikevilleOT for throwing one out there on the drop of a dime...point proven. Then I'm sure we'll get into a "well that's one player" ... kind of like we did with the whole "Zeke played one game" criticism garbage.

Two points -

1. let's not excuse the reality that having a professional basketball career has a lot to do with networking and who you know. There are people in the NBA that do not belong there. There are tons of people that are better than the average bench warmer in the NBA. What's the deciding factor? Well, quite frankly, it's the network they operate in, the intelligence to present oneself as a professional, marketable investment, and of course a high degree of skill level. Hate on me all you want for presenting myself in the best light possible. I have to do so because at 5'11" and 170 lbs., I need something more to carve out my own opportunities. Otherwise, I get passed over with the quickness, and I've got goals and aspirations, too!

2. Even the D-League is NOT the promise land of the NBA. Take the NBA backing away and tell me the D-League would be anywhere near accomplishing what the PBL has done in a year! Both leagues are learning...bot are trying to create a niche in the basketball market. The D-League just happens to be operating in a better, more connected "network" thanks to the NBA (which validates my 1st point). As credibility builds, you'll see the talent flood the PBL, especially if they continue to provide some of the benefits and exposure they have already done for their players so far.

I wish some of my Miners fans that post would stand up and confirm that even though I'm not some 6'5" 200lb. slam-dunking superstar out of Duke University, I'm still fun to watch (and don't mistake my confidence for cockiness). There are a lot of others, too (never claimed to have a monopoly on the whole working hard thing).

Pardon me for appreciating the opportunity that has been presented to me this season by the PBL. Now if people would abstain from making threads about me (trust me, I don't need nor do I really like the attention), we can continue discussing the topic in this thread...the PBL DRAFT!

[MJHankel]

Zeke, that would be cool to be teammates with Obama..btw, the PBL does have Desmond who did have some NBA time to his credit.

Technically you can't even count him as one. not so fast stated: Zeke, could any of the players drafted in the PBL, make a d-league roster? How many players signed in the pbl could make a d league roster? If a fancy draft was all it took then why don't the players jump from the d league to the pbl?

So Desmond doesn't count. The D-League is not about veterans. It is what it is, a developmental league. Desmond may be the calibar that the D-League is or higher but he is not someone that could make a D-league roster, he is in his 30's.

[PikevilleOT]

not to mince words but my comment as you quoted was that the PBL does have Desmond who did have some NBA time to his credit. that comment has nothing to do with the DLeague as in developing into NBA caliber, it shows the PBL did sign someone (like the CBA with Amal McCaskill last season, among others) who have in fact played above the DLeague level. I was not making any comparison from PBL to DLeague. sorry if i confused you.

[MJHankel]

Please forgive the confusion. It just appeared contextually that that is what you meant. Sorry, that I mis-understood. On that note, the CBA, PBL, IBL, and even ABA have had former NBA players at some point. Granted the ABA one is debatable as you can not really prove that most of the teams ever even played. I was just noting the fact that the D-league does not have interest in Seasoned veterans for the most part. It is something else that makes them a bit different. It is the same situation as in MiLB and Indy Baseball. The Affiliated leagues don't care at all about veterans while the Indy leagues have had several former Major leaguers grace the field.

[MJHankel]

The PBL tallent pool could very easily be the next best thing to the D-league. Some players may even surpass the D-league level. Heck, aside from some of the gyms in the league, the presentation is great and the draft was impressive.

[one way]

Do your homework. You do not consider Randy Livingston an old vet?? As I recall he was a nbdl player, and there are dozens more like him in the d league. Please know what you are talking about before you post. This should put in perspective. The PBL's number one draft pick is not wanted by the NBDL nor can he get a job in a Division One Country in Europe. The NBA is calling up players to play in the NBA and you are comparing that to guys who cannot get top rated jobs in Europe.

[CHris902]

I feel like this should also be another thread.

The thing is that the D-League draws two kinds of players: guys who are within an inch of making the NBA, and guys who are miles away from ever playing in the NBA, and very few players in between. The D-League being the only North American league where they can call players up mid-season means that guys like Livingston can only get in during the season through call ups and it means that a salary in the Mid-20 thousands is worth it for him since he just needs a handful of call ups to make the league minimum, or one guy to blow his knee out on the right team mid-season to get in. (Is it three call-ups means you need to get signed?)

Then there's young NBA guys who get sent down. Most of the D-League guys are players who can't make it in Europe so they settle for tiny salaries in the d-league. From what I've seen, the mid-level D-League guys are about on par with the upper mid-level PBL caliber players. It's at the top where the D-league would destroy them. Of course there's a handful of PBL guys who would be reasonable D-League players, but they're the exception not the rule. If a D-League team took on a PBL team then the difference in the starting fives would be apparent really fast and there wouldn't be much competition. I think it'd be crazy to think otherwise.

The real "competition" in North America is for third place.

On another note: I don't think that the players drafted in the PBL draft are really the best 28 players in the league (with some possible exceptions... but we'll see how the season plays out), so I don't think that that's really a fair way of evaluating the leagues.

[one way]

Here goes another thread. If the Draft is not meant to draft the top players, then why have a draft? So I am going to draft a middle level player? I thought you were supposed to draft the best player that helps your team win. Your top draft guys should be the best guys, or thought to be the best guys in the draft.

[zeke41]

Personally, although I've been in the Minors since 2006, I've had my own personal dilemma trying to understand the whole minor league draft thing. I remember paying close attention to who the East KY Miners drafted, because, obviously, I wanted to know who I was going to compete with for playing time. I think one guy was signed - Marcus Heard. Earl Calloway went D-League, another guy went Pacers summer league and then, I think, to the D-League. Another player's right were traded, and virtually nothing transpired from that transaction.

My take on the PBL was that the presentation of the draft itself was of high quality. Flying guys in for the draft, having player interviews, TV and video coverage, etc. is GREAT exposure for players. I think I mentioned this earlier, but some of the guys need to sharpen the interviewing skills a bit.

Overall, the PBL draft proves a couple of things:
1. The PBL is seeking out ways to get their guys more exposure
2. They obviously had the financial backing to put in this spectacle
3. They understand that image and pressence is very important, especially to sponsors

Those are just 3 off the top of my head. This is all good stuff, gentlemen. So what if the PBL isn't the D-League. They are doing all of this WITHOUT the NBA's backing. Who knows if they will be able to keep this up, but...if they do (and that's a big if for some of you, I know), I think independent minor league basketball is in pretty good hands.

This criticism that the league leadership runs things from a business-minded perspective and not a basketball perspective may be true, but the fact is there are a lot of basketball-minded folks who have tried to enter the "business" side of basketball only to fail miserably. I'll name Isaiah Thomas as one and leave it at that (who was actually my favorite player growing up). I'll take business-minded leadership over basketball-minded leadership any day...business savvy individuals are more likely to keep the checks covered!

[preeths]

Here goes another thread. If the Draft is not meant to draft the top players, then why have a draft? So I am going to draft a middle level player? I thought you were supposed to draft the best player that helps your team win. Your top draft guys should be the best guys, or thought to be the best guys in the draft.

In the minors, you draft the best players you think you can sign. This isn't the NBA. If a player won't move across the country to play for a minor league salary, why draft him? If he's waiting on a likely overseas offer, why bother? This isn't anything new.

[Pounder]

USL-1 used to have a draft, involving players most teams ended up not even signing. The silly thing was purged last year.

How does one become eligible for the PBL draft? How many of the draftees are signed? How many players are signed from elsewhere?

With more D-League LAs and Austins, the existence of the draft will become an issue. NBA teams will want to route players through youth programs... which means you're developing them to sign what you want, not developing kids for a draft. It's becoming outmoded. I argue that, somewhere down the line, the PBL would be wise to think like that... including the talent pool available in each market.

[runninref]

Pounder,
I understand where you are coming from, but you are missing the whole point. The PBL's draft wasn't to find players it was put on for the exposure for the league. From that aspect, I feel it was a success.:mrgreen:

[Pounder]

Was it a success in the team markets?

Grins or not, I have a point to make, too.

[LightningMan]

Was it a success in the team markets?
It wasn't meant for the team markets. It was meant to secure a national advertiser base. It was aimed at precisely the audience they sought. Time will tell if it worked.

[not so fast]

help me, I am not too smart. Who is the audience, and where did the audience view the draft?

Was it vidiotaped and sent to potential national sponsors?

Also, I understand that teams were paid revenue sharing checks. And I know all the games in the season was played. But since the profit sharing checks were given, was there any strings attached, like making sure all outstanding bills were paid and all contracts to players and coaches and staff paid first?

Finally, other than the ibl, what players that played in the pbl last season, has played any where else? In other words, did the pbl help further guys careers after its 1st year? I do know of a couple, but is there any research done on where all of last seasons players are at or where they went after the season? And remember the ibl really would be a step down (sorry ken).

[LightningMan]

help me, I am not too smart. Who is the audience, and where did the audience view the draft?
I said who it was for, nsf: potential national advertisers.

Was it videotaped and sent to potential national sponsors?
Why don't you ask the PBL, nsf?

Also, I understand that teams were paid revenue sharing checks. And I know all the games in the season was played. But since the profit sharing checks were given, was there any strings attached, like making sure all outstanding bills were paid and all contracts to players and coaches and staff paid first?
Why don't you ask the PBL, nsf?

Finally, other than the IBL, what players that played in the PBL last season, has played anywhere else? In other words, did the PBL help further guys careers after its 1st year?
Why don't you ask the PBL, nsf?

I do know of a couple...

So if you knew, then why did you ask? Never mind. I don't care what the answer is.

...but is there any research done on where all of last season's players are at or where they went after the season? And remember the IBL really would be a step down (sorry Ken).
Why don't you ask the PBL, nsf?

I am neither the PBL nor their apologist. But blasting them for the draft not being addressed to the PBL market fans when that was not its purpose is being obtuse intentionally.

[Ken, Steelheads fan]

National Advertisers know how to flip through a newspaper or google sports related Internet articles just like everyone else. When they saw that the Chicago media didn't give the PBL draft the time of day, then they most likely knew the PBL was strictly a small market operation. Dollars to donuts a national advertiser can recognize a farce as quickly as everyone else...well, almost as quickly as everyone else. The PBL leadership was once hoodwinked by the ABA and apparently the PBL thinks hoodwinking is par for the course.

Of course, the PBL draft looked impressive. There isn't a cheap dive along the Ohio/Ontario Streets tourist-trap corridor (where ESPNZone is). Those places are all great looking. Advertisers aren't stupid though, especially in this economy. The draft should have been held in Rochester. I find it hard to believe that there aren't any classy watering holes in that part of New York state.

[LightningMan]

National Advertisers know how to flip through a newspaper or google sports related Internet articles just like everyone else. When they saw that the Chicago media didn't give the PBL draft the time of day, then they most likely knew the PBL was strictly a small market operation.
This is just about as insightful as saying water is wet. The PBL by definition is a small market operation. Funny thing about people in small markets: they buy stuff just like people in large markets.

[Ken, Steelheads fan]

This is just about as insightful as saying water is wet. The PBL by definition is a small market operation. Funny thing about people in small markets: they buy stuff just like people in large markets.

Five words advertisers understand about larger markets:
More bang for your buck.

[LightningMan]

Five words advertisers understand about larger markets:
More bang for your buck.
Three words they also understand:
Cost per thousand.

[not so fast]

lightning man, have you ever tried to get information out of the pbl office? I have had head coaches and owners tell me they cant get answers, so since they read and communicate on this message board, i figured it would be quicker place to get answers.

I will say this, all of the pbl fans on this board are so extra sensitive. You people don't want anything critical said about the league. Its not a perfect league, and getting feedback from others is not bad thing. I mean you guys need to relax. I was the biggest promoter of the pbl when it got started. I have seen more games, and driven to more games than most of you on this board. I have attended both national camps they have had, I attended the showcase last season, I have helped do the clock and scoring table at several games last year, all without pay! So you hyper sensitive people need to take a deep breath and relax. Everyone who criticizes the league doesnt have a agenda against them. In fact, players I know and I work with have benefited from the pbl. But that does not mean, you dont have a right to point out things that I disagree with, without being labeled as being to negative. Some of you need to grow up.

A good strong minorleague basketball system is greatly needed in America. I have ran hundred of camps and seen thousands of players chasing this dream. I don't just sit behind a laptop and blog all night. I have been involved in the usbl, upbl, canandian league, aba, cba, ibl, and now the pbl. This is not to boast but to further make my point, that I have a bit of knowledge about this stuff. And for you guys who think I am looking for a job, pleease. I have done all I have done without ever being paid, except maybe a gas reinbursement once and awhile.

Lets remember, free speech, and lightnen up. I don't think no one means any harm to zeke, I know I don't. if he is doing good things with his life and not hurting no one, more power to him. in fact he and I have had several private conversations. And they always are positive! but I will never agree that he should be on a roster, of what is suppose to be a Professional basketball team, soley on the reasons he states, of being a good guy, being a good student, and working hard. I hate being redundant, but I can find hundreds of guys who fit that criteria, all the time. In fact, what do you think was at the National pbl camp? 120 hard working good guys, who was all ignored by the league and not drafted. Because in the end, talent should be and will be the dominant component of selecting a player. this is not little league (hopefully).

Now, let me get ready for the bulls season!!!!

[PikevilleOT]

nsf, do you know if any players from this year's national camp made a team roster? perhaps 1 of the top 20 players selected for an "allstar" game was signed?

[not so fast]

Rochester did sign one, that is all i know.

[PikevilleOT]

thanks as I had not seen that mentioned anywhere yet

[LightningMan]

Let's remember free speech and lighten up.
Who's curtailing speech? Free speech means you can say what you want and I can say what I want. And I'm not exactly getting a light vibe from you, nsf.
I don't think no one means any harm to Zeke, I know I don't.
And yet you go on to bash him again when the conversation had already turned away from him. Take your advice, dude.

[not so fast]

I just have one question, dude! where is everyones compassion for all the other good guys, hard workers that are cut from teams, and have as much desire as zeke? Man an if this is bashing him, then wow, you guys really are soft.

But to tell you the truth, I have never seen so much conversation about one player with such limited talent in my life. Sorry zeke if that offends you, but there are plenty of guys that apparently doesnt matter to the great minds on this board. So lightning man, sign zeke, and 9 more just like him, and please let me know when you play rochester.

I obviously need to have my own head examined to even be having this discussion. Preeth, you dont have to ban me, I will now band myself for awhile. last year this time, I was working out NBA players, now Im on message boards talking about zeke! I need to call my psycologist and find out why I am even on this board talking with any of you!

[PikevilleOT]

don't call... VISIT the SHRINK fast... cause everyone can see it is personal towards zeke... denials will not make it less obvious... let go of the hate while you stare at the ceiling from the couch...

[LightningMan]

So Lightning Man, sign Zeke, and 9 more just like him, and please let me know when you play Rochester.
Dude, the only thing I do for the Sea Dawgs is watch them.

[misenern]

But to tell you the truth, I have never seen so much conversation about one player with such limited talent in my life. Sorry zeke if that offends you, but there are plenty of guys that apparently doesnt matter to the great minds on this board. So lightning man, sign zeke, and 9 more just like him, and please let me know when you play rochester.

Where are all these other guys? Why don't they make the effort put themselves out there? Why don't you start talking about them, rather than making pathetic attempts to put Mark down?

And please, drop the "holier than tho" attitude. It's getting old.

[Ken, Steelheads fan]

don't call... VISIT the SHRINK fast... cause everyone can see it is personal towards zeke... denials will not make it less obvious... let go of the hate while you stare at the ceiling from the couch...

Not that not so fast needs defending, but it's nothing personal toward zeke. Not so fast is some kind of super gym rat and seems to enjoy evaluating minor league hoops talent in Chicagoland. Why? I don't know. Maybe it's one of the things gym rats do. 8)

nsf has posted his concerns before. No one gets drafted from the national camp and now someone who didn't make the final cuts from that very camp is making a PBL roster?!? He's trying to drive home a point that something is not kosher with the PBL. Not so fast's posts over the years all seem to center around good talent vs. bad talent...and it doesn't matter if he knows you or not. I know the guy from the Steelheads games. He knows my real name and I know his. We've talked in person and he knows what I'm all about, yet he still treats me like dirt on this message board. It's nothing personal. Although, I agree. He may need to seek help from a shrink. 8)