MLS considers jumping expansion fees to $50 million

[Fran]

Just three years after adding an expansion team in Toronto for $10 million, MLS may raise expansion fees to $50 million.

The possibility was one of several discussed at MLS’s board of governors meeting July 24 in Toronto. League owners discussed expansion for two to three hours but left the meeting ambivalent about how many teams to add, what expansion fees should be, and how additional teams might affect the league.

MLS announced last week that it will accept applications for expansion teams until Oct. 15 and announce two expansion cities in the first quarter of 2009, but MLS owners say several issues around expansion remain unresolved.

“There’s a lot of people who want to get in this league, which is good,” an owner said, speaking anonymously because the meeting was confidential. “We’ve just got to figure out the right way to do it.”

At the meeting, MLS Commissioner Don Garber listed eight markets interested in potential expansion: Atlanta, Las Vegas, Montreal, a second team in the New York area, Ottawa, Portland, St. Louis and Vancouver.

The level of interest led owners to discuss adding not just two but four teams in the coming years, according to people familiar with the meeting.

Advocates of adding four teams pointed to the immediate benefit of their expansion fees and the overwhelming demand to join the league. Opponents questioned whether adding so many teams so quickly would dilute the current owners’ share of Soccer United Marketing revenue from sponsorship and TV, and weaken the player talent pool.

Owners also discussed the current price of expansion fees. Garber has said the next expansion fees will be $40 million, but some owners are advocating raising them to $50 million. That would mark a 400 percent increase from the $10 million that Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment spent to join the league in 2006 and a 66 percent increase from the $30 million that Philadelphia and Seattle spent last year.

None of those issues were resolved during the board of governors meeting, and owners expect them to be hashed out by the expansion committee in the coming months. That committee comprises Phil Anschutz, Dave Checketts, Antonio Cue, Dan Hunt, Cliff Illig, Victor MacFarlane and Richard Peddie.

[nksports]

The English Premier League has 20 teams for a population of 50,000,000. Therefore, the MLS would need 112 teams for a population of 280,000,000. The USL would need 403 teams in three pro divisions. How to translate the Football Conference to the US (PDL?), I don't know, but that's another 381 teams

[dmbishop]

According to the U.S. Bureau of the Census, the resident population of the United States, projected to 08/06/08 at 02:20 GMT (EST+5) is 304,792,089
http://www.census.gov/population/www/popclockus.html

So add some more teams to those totals.

Of course, it doesn't translate (there aren't 5 MLB teams in Great Britain or 120 MLB teams in China), but it's fun to speculate...

[nksports]

Actually what it shows is the saturation of soccer in England. The closest we have to that kind of saturation would be football, baseball and basketball if you added in D-I teams to the pros.

[SignGuyDino]

St. Louis simply HAS to have a team. Kansas City has been high and dry for years without a rival, and they would be a good rival to Philly as well. Montreal would be a huge rival for Toronto, and frankly, Quebec might as well be its own country so MLS would cover 3 countries. :D

I would love to see Vegas get a team but they'd probably have to play in a dome or only at night.

Portland and another New York team after that.

Then I'd do another Chicago team and Vancouver.

[Evad]

What about San Diego? What would have to happen for them to get a team?

[nksports]

What about San Diego? What would have to happen for them to get a team?

Sounds like $30 to $50 million to start, plus a soccer specific stadium, plus the jack to run a team. I don't know if there is significant competition from TJ. I see Club Tijuana has a stadium that seats about 33,000, but I don't know what they actually draw.
It's what, three hours, depending on traffic to LA for the Galaxy and Chivas.
If all these expansion plans play out, we could soon reach capacity for the MLS. If MLS wanted to really torque some people off (like the USL), we could start talking MLS2, complete with promotion and relegation (I don't actually ever see that happening. US owners wouldn't risk their investment with the possibility of ever dropping to minor league status.)

[Pounder]

There's one best place.

http://timbers.soccercityusa.com/pano_080708_1024.jpg

http://timbers.soccercityusa.com/player-banners_1024.jpg

Portland. Oregon.

That was Thursday night. THURSDAY. USL. 12K in attendance.

[bomp]

12,000 in Portland??? Amazing. Time for the MLS there. Any suitable owners in town? Great crowd!

[Pounder]

Merritt Paulson has the backing.

All Paulson needs is for the city to bend a little. He's asking for about a $65 million contribution from the city, but there are strong rumors throughout town that he'll accept a compromise which requires more of his contribution.

[stuharry]

Portland is second is the USL in attendance and has just just joined Rochester and Montreal as the only cities in that league to draw 500,000 fans in a season. So I would say they have stepped up to the MLS plate and said....feed me! If Vancouver joins the MLS at some point, then all 3 current USL teams in the Northwest will jump ship to MLS.

[summerfan]

Portland is second is the USL in attendance and has just just joined Rochester and Montreal as the only cities in that league to draw 500,000 fans in a season. So I would say they have stepped up to the MLS plate and said....feed me! If Vancouver joins the MLS at some point, then all 3 current USL teams in the Northwest will jump ship to MLS.

Attendance in the usl seems to have very little impact on joining the mls.Take toronto one if not the worse supported team in usl and they got in to mls.

[Pounder]

I know.

It does seem, with both Montreal and Portland involved, MLS may be poised to go after the top USL draws this time... depending on whether St. Louis has their investor.

Thing is... WATCH a Toronto game. Watch the fans. They're crazy. I sense MLS wants more of that, and Portland is where you find that.

[summerfan]

I know.

It does seem, with both Montreal and Portland involved, MLS may be poised to go after the top USL draws this time... depending on whether St. Louis has their investor.

Thing is... WATCH a Toronto game. Watch the fans. They're crazy. I sense MLS wants more of that, and Portland is where you find that.

You do know toronto was not a top draw in the usl.When toronto was granted a team in mls people did question if it would work or not.With the usl team the fans were not like this at all and there had attendance probleams.

[Pounder]

Here's the thing:

Montreal - Owner who has badmouthed MLS in the past, but has seen the light. Stadium already built, looks cheaply built, therefore easy to expand. Their only possible drawback is the American-Canadian politics at play (and it is).

Vancouver - Extremely rich owner, BUT does not have more than a rent-paying interest in BC Place, and is miles away from a resolution to getting his own stadium built (without use of public funds, BUT obstructing Port of Vancouver desires for right of way... big problem).

St. Louis - Stadium proposal has funding in hand, but one wonders if another mixed-use development will fly in this economy. Varying reports suggest they really DON'T have the ownership.

Ottawa - Too far down the political scale (pun intended) for MLS to take seriously.

Portland - Merritt Paulson at least has Dad's backing (two of them together, over a billion). Stadium plan is out in public. Drawback may be that there's public support, but Paulson says the plan doesn't need to be funded until the team is awarded.

New York - Mets ownership supposedly wants to build stadium next to new Mets ballpark. Where's this guy been? Do we trust the investment?

NOW, MLS has a perception problem, exacerbated by exactly the decisions summerfan talks about. Most places, they get the investor in place and find out they can't draw that well. Toronto- we always knew the town had the support, they didn't see USL as being the avenue. They don't see that with CFL, either. The market IS ready for something more.

If MLS has been watching Toronto, you figure they want more of that. Portland's plan delivers that. Downtown stadium, YOUNG POPULATION. No-brainer.

You have to show that with other markets. Ottawa is unproven. St. Louis really isn't proven, either (they have history, not current). The remainder, safe to say, likely yes. Montreal actually has to prove they can sell higher priced tickets now, but I still have more faith in them than, say, Atlanta or Miami.

Final point- MLS used to have trouble scraping together people who WOULD buy a franchise. $10 million is relatively bargain basement. How else did Salt Lake get into this game? NOW that they can have an honest-to-goodness competition for two new teams, they can AND WILL look at other factors.

[summerfan]

I know people are willing to bash ottawa.But lets look at some facts.

1)82,000 soccer players in the city limits.
2)A plan for the stadium.
3)A owner who has a proven track record

Will ottawa get a mls team i am not sure.But just to say bla they won't look at the city.Well if there going to look at portland/rochester etc then ottawa is right in there is population size.

[Pounder]

I know people are willing to bash ottawa.But lets look at some facts.

1)82,000 soccer players in the city limits.
2)A plan for the stadium.
3)A owner who has a proven track record

Will ottawa get a mls team i am not sure.But just to say bla they won't look at the city.Well if there going to look at portland/rochester etc then ottawa is right in there is population size.

Rochester? Rochester's a dead issue to MLS.

Portland metro, 2000 Census, 2,265,223 with more than 2% annual growth.

Ottawa metro, 2001 Census, 1,063,664.

It's not even close, and Ottawa is the 3rd Canadian city in priority in a list of two.

Besides, soccer players have, to MLS' dismay, rarely converted to soccer FANS.