Inter-League play

[Morris Mott]

I know there are a lot of naysayers about Indy Inter-league play, but here's my take on it.

If Inter-league play was to happen here is how it would occur.

A participating Inter-League club would travel to another region and play a 2 series against another city and then another 2 game series against another in the rival league, before travelling back. Meanwhile, the rest of the league would play it's regular schedule as usual. Results would still count in the standings for the clubs so everyone still ends up playing the same amount of games. The next year, the same clubs would reverse with the other clubs now making the journey over to become the visiting team. Clubs would make their own agreements with other clubs and only play in the cities they prefer to, with the League's only involvement being the ability to give the green light.

There is still ABOSOLUTELY NO interest in interleague play from the AA. This fact was repeated at the start of the season in the Fargo papers with quotes from Miles Wolff himself. The AA, in particular the south division, has ZERO interest in playing anywhere in the NoL except, maybe, KCK. This remains a pipe dream which (rumors say) Commissioner Griffith told people in Burnsville --and I've personally confirmed with the Saints is not true.

That's probably true. But no one ever said every single team "HAD" to play Inter-league games nor would every league have to participate right away. If 2-3 clubs from a particular league were willing, and the Indy leagues were on better communication grounds, Inter-League would be begin to occur. Maybe it would only be two clubs in two leagues starting off with a single series but once the marketing aspects begin to be realized, the owners of other clubs may warm to the idea. So, what are these marketing ideas?

Well... If you advertise the home-stand as a special event and hype it around town, I'm sure you can expect a larger than average crowd to show up. And since you are expecting a larger than average crowd for your Inter-League games you can line up bigger single game sponsors and maybe a one time local TV deal. All this translate into larger revenue for your couple of inter-league games. This extra money is then budgeted for travel so that the club can be the visiting team as well. So in the end, there really is no extra cost for travelling farther, thus making your club able to visit any Indy club on the continent. You can even set up contest and polls to let the fans decide which club they want to see, creating what us marketers love... constant buzz about a club.

But, then what about all the logistics? Well nlfan sums the two biggest questions about Inter-league roadblocks with this statement...

As for other leagues the FL roster rules remain too different (LS-2 max) and the others are too far away (e.g. AtL, GBL).

First, off, the roster rules would not be a concern. Why? Because inter-League will never be about winning or losing games, it will be about marketing your league and team. College football uses a similar ploy whereas weaker teams make playing agreements with the big time colleges. They know they'll lose, but the chance to give their fans and players a chance to experience other teams from other conferences is marketed to the hilt. Fans at New Mexico State pour in to see USC crush their home squad and the result is never a concern.... it's the chance to get something other than the same league games. Heck sometimes it takes decades before that team plays theirs again. The bigger conference schools are paid to play the lower ranked schools and also gain by piling up a few easy wins to enhance their own playoff Bowl chances.

So if there is no extra revenue from playing other Leagues, why do it? Well, think of it once again from a marketing point of view. Those extra fans that came to your media-hyped Inter-league home-stand may like what they see and come back for more. And that one time sponsor you set up... may also like what they see with your organization.

Remember, it's not the games and who wins or loses that counts, that's short-sighted... it's what you can make of the event. If some owners complain that some clubs are racking up wins against lower level competition well they better remember one thing. Every club has the chance to participate and play whomever they can strike a deal with. All the better for those clubs that do.

The only way Inter-League games would fail... is if the clubs fail to take advantage of all they have to offer.

[Eddie]

I never post here but this one...

So you want leagues to risk injury, money, etc. to play exhibition games?

If they're going to play interleague games then it should be leagues on the same level, etc. so it actually means something. Why would a league want to ruin their season just to play exhibitions? That's what preseason is for.

I just can't agree with your premise.

If the Northern plays the American then it's the same level, level playing field...games could count in the standings and not worry about beating up on weaker competition.

I did research on this for a project. If I had a league with say 8 teams and another league had 8 teams. Then why not work it out where they play 4 away and 4 at home. Regular 3 game series, etc. Or 4 one season and 4 the next season.

You have All Star games going on now so interleague is the next logical move but it has to make sense for all involved. Don't forget these team owners are putting a lot of money on the line and all that and if it's something that could make or break the season, they're not going to do it for an exhibition.

Teams and league in the same region would obviously help too.

[skippy]

Why would Miles offer to help out the NL or the ULB?

These are the guys who thought they knew better than him and took teams from his leagues.

The NL and ULB seem to have issues finding teams. I think they'll be left to twist in the wind.

Another point to be made, that unless it's a Daryl Strawberry or the like, most fans in the minor leagues don't care what teams or players are playing. They care about promotions and the prices.

[Morris Mott]

So you want leagues to risk injury, money, etc. to play exhibition games?

No, the games will count in the both teams' standings. when I meant winning or losing didn't matter, I didn't mean the results didn't count. All I meant was that which club actually won, wasn't the main reason for having the games in the first place.

Why would Miles offer to help out the NL or the ULB?

He doesn't have to. If the AA wants no part of Inter-League play, that's his decision. He can co-operate with the other Indy Leagues on other levels without Inter-League play. Seeing Can-Am vs. AtL League games, NL verus FL league games and UBL vs. GBL League games with no AA participation still works out fine for everyone.

Another point to be made, that unless it's a Daryl Strawberry or the like, most fans in the minor leagues don't care what teams or players are playing. They care about promotions and the prices.

And for the most part, that's completely true. But there are plenty of fans with an "US" verus "THEM" attitude as far as team/city/League pride goes. If that's tapped into, Inter-League games can be portrayed as the "promotion" itself.

If the Northern plays the American then it's the same level, level playing field...games could count in the standings and not worry about beating up on weaker competition

I wouldn't worry too much about unfair competition. Just look at the Calgary Vipers. They have mostly the same team they had last year when they came within a game of winning the NL title. They have .400 hitter Darryl Brinkley ,Nelson Castro as well as ex-major-leaguer Felix Jose in their lineup still. You'd think they would roll over the so-called lower level teams of the GBL, the League they are in now. Well, as of last night, they weren't even the best team in their league, Orange County was, with a 11-4 record. Heck Calgary even got beat this year 21-7 by Yuma, a team with a modest 9-8 record.

Maybe over the long haul, playing levels are apparent. But in terms of 2-3 games, I think each Indy team has a chance to beat any other Indy team out there.

[nlfan]

I think Eddie's got a lot of it.

I don't think anyone's interested in in-season exhibition games. They'll just clog up the schedule and, in the case of the AA make it all the more awkward to schedule regular seasons games. In theory the difference wouldn't matter much to most fans but you really can't add games that don't count here and there. No one's going to buy into that even it did promote the club.

Once you're into the season, teams are looking championships not practice. I also agree with Eddie that it's also not a risk they are not willing to take.

The fact is all discussion of interleague was for games that would count and that eliminates the FL since only the NoL, C-AL and AA have comparable rules (mainly since Miles Wolff started or was directly involved with all of them). If the games DO count then it's likely that the clubs playing FL teams will have more wins since their rules are more restrictive.

The GBL is irrelevant and a bad example. They used to have (more) restrictive roster rules but I think now it's pretty much "anything goes." (though I could easily be wrong since I don't follow that league) That's why most of the team is back and why they probably compete on par with the existing clubs.

You can't have teams chosing to play "on their own." They're a part of a league, the league has rules which likely do not include this, and the league still has to schedule around it. If 2 teams chose to play interleague (it can't be 3 or you'll have a couple clubs sitting out with no one to play) and others don't the standing either will be screwed up or some clubs will have fewer off days. The other clubs will complain and vote it down (especially in the AA where half of them won't support it at all).

This idea is interesting but has no future.

The NoL is working to have 8 clubs so the point is moot.
The AA hasn't been interested since they got to 10 teams in 2006.
I don't see why the FL would be interested since, except for the Chicago clubs, the other 3 teams are an extra 400+ miles from everyone else. All the other leagues, whether playing the NoL or other leagues, have had no real interest in it either.

Maybe when the NoL hires you as commissioner you can try raising interest in it. :)

When it comes to inter-league activities and action it's about promotion, sharing ideas and suggestions, helping new owners and managers, presentations on new technologies and concepts, and general/mutual support.

[Morris Mott]

Again, I state "THE RESULTS WILL COUNT IN THE STANDINGS OF BOTH LEAGUES... Inter-League is "NOT", I repeat..."NOT" a chance to play some mid-season exhibition games.

If the games DO count then it's likely that the clubs playing FL teams will have more wins since their rules are more restrictive.

Maybe, maybe not. The rules aren't that much different, other than the rule about not having players with more than LS-2 in experience. I don't buy the notion that experience alone wins baseball games. Talent can shine for a game or two over experience. Baseball is baseball, it's not like teams in the FL use five bases or long skinny stickball bats.

You can't have teams chosing to play "on their own." They're a part of a league, the league has rules which likely do not include this, and the league still has to schedule around it.

Exactly! teams wishing Inter-league play for the year would have a deadline to submit their schedules, usually just a single series or 2 a year, with another team in another League. Leagues would then produce a schedule around this. The League would have rules for Inter-league, so it's not like the clubs would be running barnstorming games whenever they had an opening... lol.

If 2 teams chose to play interleague (it can't be 3 or you'll have a couple clubs sitting out with no one to play) and others don't the standing either will be screwed up or some clubs will have fewer off days. The other clubs will complain and vote it down (especially in the AA where half of them won't support it at all).


Oh, it can be an odd number like 3. After all, no one said it all clubs had to play Inter_League at the same time. Two clubs would be involved in Inter-League one week, than, next month the other club would join in while another club sat out and played regular league games. Days off would remain all but the same.

There would be no need to have every team play Inter-League or even have those that do, play the same amount of games each. Like nlfan has stated, the Southern AA clubs have no interest in Inter-League games, nor do the non-Chicago area FL teams either. Let's suppose the NL's Schaumburg Flyers decide to play Inter-League and host the Gateway Grizzlies one week, then next month travel to Loves Rock, IL to play the Rockford Riverhawks. Two other NL clubs the T-Bones and the Goldeyes decide to play Inter-League as well, but only for a single series each. KC travels to Crestwood, IL the first week to play Windy City, and then the Goldeyes host the Kalamazoo Kings during the same time Schaumburg is playing Rockford. here you have an unequal amount of teams playing an unequal amount of games... equalling out in the schedules of their various Leagues.

If that was it for Inter-League for the year from the NL, then it has worked out. No one said it had to be some big production that stopped baseball on it's head. Teams would make a big deal of it...to their fans... then move on with the rest of the schedule, keeping a good working relationship with another Indy League.

I think the reason no one has any interest in Inter-League right now, is that everyone has already made up their mind that it will not work. Until they see two Leagues get together playing it out in a stadium they'll always see it as unworkable.

I for one, will always have the opinion that it will work, and will work very well. So until it's actually tried, and fails in reality, it's just my opinion against the world's I guess.

(FOR NOW):D

[BCRantzilla]

Again, I state "THE RESULTS WILL COUNT IN THE STANDINGS OF BOTH LEAGUES... Inter-League is "NOT", I repeat..."NOT" a chance to play some mid-season exhibition games.



Maybe, maybe not. The rules aren't that much different, other than the rule about not having players with more than LS-2 in experience. I don't buy the notion that experience alone wins baseball games. Talent can shine for a game or two over experience. Baseball is baseball, it's not like teams in the FL use five bases or long skinny stickball bats.



Exactly! teams wishing Inter-league play for the year would have a deadline to submit their schedules, usually just a single series or 2 a year, with another team in another League. Leagues would then produce a schedule around this. The League would have rules for Inter-league, so it's not like the clubs would be running barnstorming games whenever they had an opening... lol.



Oh, it can be an odd number like 3. After all, no one said it all clubs had to play Inter_League at the same time. Two clubs would be involved in Inter-League one week, than, next month the other club would join in while another club sat out and played regular league games. Days off would remain all but the same.

There would be no need to have every team play Inter-League or even have those that do, play the same amount of games each. Like nlfan has stated, the Southern AA clubs have no interest in Inter-League games, nor do the non-Chicago area FL teams either. Let's suppose the NL's Schaumburg Flyers decide to play Inter-League and host the Gateway Grizzlies one week, then next month travel to Loves Rock, IL to play the Rockford Riverhawks. Two other NL clubs the T-Bones and the Goldeyes decide to play Inter-League as well, but only for a single series each. KC travels to Crestwood, IL the first week to play Windy City, and then the Goldeyes host the Kalamazoo Kings during the same time Schaumburg is playing Rockford. here you have an unequal amount of teams playing an unequal amount of games... equalling out in the schedules of their various Leagues.

If that was it for Inter-League for the year from the NL, then it has worked out. No one said it had to be some big production that stopped baseball on it's head. Teams would make a big deal of it...to their fans... then move on with the rest of the schedule, keeping a good working relationship with another Indy League.

I think the reason no one has any interest in Inter-League right now, is that everyone has already made up their mind that it will not work. Until they see two Leagues get together playing it out in a stadium they'll always see it as unworkable.

I for one, will always have the opinion that it will work, and will work very well. So until it's actually tried, and fails in reality, it's just my opinion against the world's I guess.

(FOR NOW):D

Nothing wrong with speculation since nothing is written in stone in the minors.

My hope is the NL gets to 8 teams and no dealings with the AA happen. The last thing I want is another Eastern League merger type fiasco. (Especially since it spawned a bunch of NL championship wins that didn't count.) I don't really want to see regular season games with other leagues either but there IS a precident for this. (The WHA in 1979 saw the 6 remaining teams play Soviet and other European clubs as part of the regular schedule and all games counted for points in the standings.)

The next couple of years will be interesting but I want to see a strong NL again, (something that our local media has called into question in recent years.)

[Eddie]

So Mr Morris.

You want teams to CHOOSE to play other leagues.
So if 4 of the AA teams want it then they do it and others don't?
Now think about that.

Even in the majors with interleague play some teams play the weak sisters of a division while the Mets play the Yanks, etc. You'd be doing the same thing which would again hurt the competition.

Let's say I know the Saints, Cats, T-Bones and Rapidz will all be weak teams and I place them for my teams I want to play (still don't like this idea). What happens when my team rampages through that at 11-1 while others in the league were playing tougher teams?

If there is interleague anything, I would think it has to be even.

Using the AA and NoL as examples.
Have the 6 teams play all 10 teams (hope my numbers are right)
Or do it like the majors when interleague started in 1994 and go by divisions.

North AA plays North NoL
South AA plays South NoL

then the next year

North AA plays South NoL
South AA plays North NoL

I'm not against interleague at all. Anyone who knows me knows that but if you're going to get owners to go with it then it has to be even and/or fair to everyone else in the league.

Under the "play if you want" thing, you're basically talking about exhibition.

[amazingdv]

Owners of any team will be up for any idea that would make them money. If your idea can point to the dollars then I am sure you will have the owners running your direction to put the idea into place.

Danny

[Eddie]

Not all owners run for money you know...

[McMinnesotaFan]

That MW is taking such a hardline against interleague play. Wasn't the NE and NL combo primarily his idea, and the discontinuation of that aliance one of the primary reasons for his departure along with his associated teams?

[nlfan]

A very busy man

Yes, Miles was. He's also the one ousted by the NoL owners from the league he created for doing exactly that in '99. He's still running that league (C-AL) and his own club in it. Between those activities, acting as commissioner for the AA, making trips for expansion talks to locations like Topeka (where he beat Griffith to the city council by nearly 2 months), I'd say he's pretty busy to --if not justified in having his own reasons for-- not wanting to deal with the NoL.

Even if he (personally) wanted interleague play the league is full of ex-NoL owners who either are quite happy to no longer be involved with them and/or south division owners with absolutely no intention of driving any further north than St. Paul. Short of dictating that it happened, he's going to be overruled by nearly all of them.

[McMinnesotaFan]

Tough it meant some challenges for transportation. Just like the south vs St. Paul and no further.