River City Rage

[lindsayh12]

As a longtime football fan and follower of the Show Me Believers to the current Rage, I have to say that I am absolutely disgusted with this team now. A baseball guy not a football guy has led the Rage front office for the last two seasons. I went to the games against the Wild and Beef and this is the worst indoor team I have seen in Saint Louis and it has to start with the front office not having football people in it. If the owners were smart, they would clean out the front office and coaching staff and beg the coaches from the 2006-2007 season to comeback and coach this team. I do have season tickets for the Rage but I like 20 of my friends with season tickets won’t be going to anymore games to support this team. Also, talking with certain players they are sick of management and coaches also. This is a huge problem because these are players whom over the last three seasons have been key members of this team.

[Jamie]

I don't know anything about the particulars in your case... but I do not believe that the front office has to be led by a "football guy"

The front office is more than putting players on the field... just as important is fiscal responsibility, getting sponsors, arena relations, ticket sales, etc.

An experienced minor league baseball guy should be able to run an indoor football front office.

The Head Coach can be the football guy.

So, what you're really saying is you don't like your front office guy because he's doing a bad job. Don't blame it on his baseball experience.

[lindsayh12]

Jamie I respect your statement, but I do think a football team should have a football guy in the front office. Another quick point if you read the entire post you'd see that players are also very upset with the front office as well as coaches and if it continues you could see the same type of thing that happens in pro leagues when players call for a change. I have become friends with any players since the team was the Believers. Some of the top tier guys really have had enough.

[phydeaux72]

Don't the Sprowls own this team now? If that's the case, it surprises me that the Rage aren't doing really well on AND off the field.

[OutlawFan#5]

Don't the Sprowls own this team now? If that's the case, it surprises me that the Rage aren't doing really well on AND off the field.

Now your just being sarcastic!

[indoor fan]

Bring back Mike Wyatt

[lindsayh12]

indoor fan that would be great for the city of Saint Charles and the Rage but Wyatt is the head coach at Oklahoma Panhandle State University in Goodwell, OK. As a longtime fan, I wish he would comeback to the red and black.

[ragefan]

with all due respect, there will always be a player or two or half the team ,whatever ,who does not like the coach or the bosses. Either because of coaching style or because they are not playing when they think they should. Some players did not like Wyatt, some did not like Cox , some did not like Van Tessle, hell he did not even last past opening day and now some do not like this coach. It is never a perfect fit. Someone is always going to feel screwed by a coach. Life just is not fair.

As far as "the baseball" guy running the front office, which he has done for more than two years by the way, your logic is just off, an office manager has nothing to do with the players that is what a coaching staff is for. The manager runs the day to day stuff with vendors and ticket sales, sponsor sales etc. You want a SALESMAN in your front office not a jock. So just because he ran the baseball teams means he knows nothing about football? Do you know him personally to know he is not a football guy? You are saying just because he ran the baseball team he is a baseball guy well i think he has run a football team longer so doesn't that now mean he is now a football guy instead? Just going on your brilliant logic here.

Yes the sprowls now run the team but just because an owner has deep pockets does not mean the team will run smoothly either. I will say this the Rage has lasted longer than any other team at the family arena so i will give credit to the owner of the Believers, Ed, and to Tye Elliott who bought the Believers and turned them into the Rage and who stuck with the Rage through several partners and even more problems and to the new owners the Sprowls, owning a team is never easy i am sure .

[cRUSHer]

pleae don't take this the wrong way,
but the Rage are probably no better
or worse than when they were getting
a lot of easier wins against replacement
teams and forfietures on their opponents part.

They are up against consistently better competition
game after game now as members of United Indoor
Football.

And they are a good team.

3 - 3 isn't the end of the world.
That div. is still theirs for the taking.

And God bless Mr. Sprowls. :)

[exit322]

And God bless Mr. Sprowls. :)

Yeah, without him, the UIF would be the APFL with higher salaries.

[preeths]

That's quite a stretch, and you're assuming neither team would have found another buyer and the only other option would have been to shut them down. Neither is a given. From what I've seen, the worst UIF ownership group is better than the APFL's best. That's what makes the difference. Frankly, I don't understand the jabs at UIF.

[exit322]

They are simply in response to the blind faith that the UIF is so much better than everything, when it's simply true that the UIF is just another professional indoor league, like the other three out there.

The UIF was founded with questionable objectives, only after Carolyn Shiver told them where to go after they "left" in the first place. There was never any real intent to start a new league until that was the only option. So far, they seem to be doing a fair job, but they're certainly not expanding fast enough to replace lost teams, and that will be their downfall if they don't fix it.

[preeths]

I think history has shown that the decision to break away from the NIFL is one of the best they could have made, and a decision that every other quality organization in that league eventually made. They've done a better than "fair" job since then, particularly by indoor football standards, in that they've played their games and avoided the disasters that we saw last year in the AIFA and CIFL, for instance. I don't think anyone is showing "blind faith" in UIF. Though it's not perfect, they've earned the rep as a solid league.

[lindsayh12]

Rage fan, the person running the front office for your team doesn't know anything about football that has been proven many times over. As far as him not having to do with players that is a false statement as he decides a lot when it comes to not only players but the coaching staff as well.

[cRUSHer]

Frankly, I don't understand the jabs at UIF.

sour grapes

[ragefan]

Let's have FACTS not opinions when it comes to trashing someone on here. Explain your self... To many people pop on this site and trash a team or a person then you never hear from them again. LET HERE THE FACTS...What doesn't he know about football? What does he decide when it comes to players, not who plays, not who is picked for the team, not what happens in practice, not who coaches and who doesn't , not the salaries. Not who is cut or who is signed.

Mr. Jones does not make the decisions, you sir are wrong. He may make SUGGESTIONS, but believe me it is Jeff and Bob who make the choices for the team and then tell Mr.Jones what they want to do and what to carry out. The buck starts and stops with the ownership not the front office. :infun:

[lindsayh12]

Rage Fan first of all I am a woman so please don not address me as "sir." Also I never named the person I was talking about. Now let us talk about facts;

One. The person I was talking about was solely responsible for the departure of Coach Wyatt and his staff including Coach Cox.

Two. In order to run a successfull football team you have to know about not only the game but also about how football fans think.

[preeths]

But I believe you are missing ragefan's point. He's saying you don't have to be a football person to run a successful organization. Yes, you have to know the game to put together a good on-field team, but that's largely the job of coaches at this level. I don't believe your second point has much merit.

[ragefan]

Sorry to confuse the issue on your gender, once again you are wrong about Coach Wyatt at least. I am a close personal friend of the Elliott's who still own part of the team and know for a FACT that Coach Wyatt left for another coaching job, the decision to fire someone would of been Mr. Elliotts and his partner MAC and neither one fired or got rid of him. It was his decision and no one elses. No one forced him out. The Elliott's wanted him to stay but knew that it was a better job for Coach Wyatt so i am not sure what your trying to stir up here but as far as Wyatt goes it was his choice to go.

As far as Coach Cox, When players and coaches do not get along a change must be made for the good of the team and once again this would of been the owners decision not the front offices. So i guess you are blaming the new owners, the Sprowls for Cox's departure too. Since they were the ones who brought in their former coach of the shockwave to replace Cox. Who left and then was replaced once again by the owners with Coach Stills.

Thanks Preeth for explaining my point..

[lindsayh12]

Coach Wyatt did leave for Oklahoma Panhandle State University BUT he was pushed out by someone in the front office. You are right that Tye and MAC wanted him to stay.

I am not blaming the new owners for the coaching change, I am blaming the same person who pushed Wyatt out. When Cox was there the players liked the team and there was no reason for him leaving. Now key players on the team are very unhappy.

[nksports]

Oklahoma Panhandle State University

My condolences. That place is college football death. They are NCAA D-II but routinely get drilled by the likes of the Kansas Collegiate Athletic Conference (a small local NAIA conference).
They are a college rodeo powerhouse.
It is a fun place to watch football on a Saturday night (where early season it is still in the upper 90s at kickoff).

[ragefan]

hate to beat a dead horse here but I talked to the pervious owners last night because this is really bugging me that someone is getting blamed for actions that were not taken.

They said they do not know where people are getting their info when they are talking about Coach Wyatt, and I would think the owner would know whats going on in his own organization over a fan, "HE WAS NOT FORCED OUT BY ANYONE IN FRONT OFFICE", Once again he left because a better job came up . Tye said he and Mac had meetings on and they made the decisions on who was fired and who stayed during their time as majority owners which is the time you are speaking of. I am not sure what you have against "someone in the front office" but be careful that you know both sides of the story before trashing someone. Maybe you have a personal relationship here with the coaches in question and feelings were hurt but to wrongly accuse someone is just not what these boards are about. Well not suppose to be about anyway.

You seem to be getting one side to Coach Cox story which i assume is his because they also said many players complained about him as a coach just like they did with Wyatt also , like i said before you will NEVER get all players to like all the coaches. Someone will always complain about a coach. As far a Coach Cox goes he was let go for many reasons, mainly because the new OWNERS, not the front office, wanted their old coach from the Shockwave to run the team but things did not work out and he went back to Cali, before the season even started and Stills was brought in. There is no conspiracy to get rid of coaches here just a team who wanted change. :)

[lindsayh12]

I take offense to you questioning my integrity by saying "Maybe you have a personal relationship here with the coaches in question and feelings were hurt but to wrongly accuse someone is just not what these boards are about."

I have no peronal relationship with any of the coaches we've been talking about. I am just a diehard football fan who hates to see her hometown team going the tubes of internal issues.

[MarshalsFAN80]

I take offense to you questioning my integrity by saying "Maybe you have a personal relationship here with the coaches in question and feelings were hurt but to wrongly accuse someone is just not what these boards are about."

I have no peronal relationship with any of the coaches we've been talking about. I am just a diehard football fan who hates to see her hometown team going the tubes of internal issues.

Now that we don't have a team in Cincinnati, the RAGE have been harder to follow via just the internet but I can tell you from Personal experience with the RAGE via the NIFL- Tye was one of the worst owners to talk to and deal with on a regular basis. And given the CRAP that the NIFL had in it, that is saying a lot.

Ultimately I'm sure he wants what is best for his investment but I just didn't think at the time that we talked that the RAGE had a good business plan. *Much like Marshals Ownership*

Cincinnati will never see indoor football again, at least not at USBANK Arena. It's frustrating as a fan, lindsay, when you hear the things that you have been hearing but, if you don't want to know all the CRAP that goes on, then don't read the boards when it comes to your team. While Preeths does a great job monitoring the BS that is put out here, the majority of the posts here are people's opinions and NOT ALWAYS based on FACTS.

Enjoy your team and keep supporting them if you want to keep them around. 3,333 fans for the final home game of the year makes it sound like people in St. Charles still want the RAGE around :D

[ragefan]

First of all MarshalFan80..How did you come to deal with Tye if your just a fan.. Or are you one of the owners?? When i asked tye he said he had nothing but good experiences with the Marshal team when the Rage was in the NIFL. But lets be clear here. Tye rarely dealt with the owners personally,he was more the money behind the team and not the spokesman when it came to dealing with owners and teams, it was his partner at the time the rage was in the NIFL, Scott Wilson, who was on the board and who went to the meetings to represent the Rage. So are you sure you are trashing the right person here??

By the way, Tye does not own the Rage, he sold them in the off season to the Sprowls.


By the way i looked up the history of your team and boy you got some guts calling Tye out.. Your teams history is disgraceful to say the least ... at least Tye did not embezzle or not pay his players or fold the team...Or Flee the country due to money laundering charges... Never cast the first stone if you live in a glass arena...

[lindsayh12]

Besides the 2006 coaching staff...Tye was the best thing that ever came to the RAGE so Marshall fan is just jelous he doesn't have a hometown team anymore.

Also, I have to thank god that our players played this season to spite the person running the front office.

All the best to the PLAYERS on the Rage during their playoff run.

[ragefan]

Agreed on the part about Tye .:) When he and his then partners, Scott and Jerry bought the Show Me Believers from Ed they had their work cut out for them. I think this team has come along way. It is to bad the Rage does not have more support from the community. They are a great team to watch and you can't beat the cost of a ticket and it was a fun run when Tye and Mac Meetings ran the team. I enjoyed working with them a lot.

We will have to wait and see what the new guys do and I am sure they are good guys but they have a tough act to follow. It takes a lot more than throwing money around to build the kind of loyalty the team and its previous owners had.

Ask any player or coach and they will tell you Tye and his family were very supportive and loved the team. To bad they moved to Pittsburgh. Maybe someday he will buy a team out there....Well if he is crazy enough to own a team again.:eek:

[gostlouis]

--"It is to bad the Rage does not have more support from the community. They are a great team to watch and you can't beat the cost of a ticket and it was a fun run when Tye and Mac Meetings ran the team."--

Getting peoples interest in minor league teams in St. Louis is almost impossible among my friends. If they are not the Blues, Rams or Cardinals then they are labeled as "a minor sports team" and it's hard to get any of my friends to care for them because of that.

I've taken tons of people to Rage games to get some interest in them among my friends, but it just never stays. Sadly the media doesn't help either when they don't even mention the scores every week on the local sports TV stations. (and I'm talking about channels 2, 4 and 5. The channels that really matter.) There are still many people in St. Louis that have no idea we have an arena football team and these people are football fans mind you.

Now don't get me wrong, the Rage are indeed getting supported by a good amount of people. But that number of 3K to 4K a game just can't seem to go up anymore in a 10K seat arena. The next step has to be taken and the local sports TV stations has to acknowledge the Rage's existence every week with a final score update at least if this team is going to get higher attendance.

I sadly have no idea how you can force the media to do this though.

[ragefan]

I know what you mean... Tye and I have talked about this a lot . He could not get the media out there.. The only time they covered was when the Rage was downtown that year and that was only because they were only a few blocks away and ran over to get a few bits for a clip. I know aaron is always sending press releases and they never get picked up by the stations, hell high school sports gets more coverage.

Now Randy Gardner does a great job covering us on his show and so does Howard Balzer on his show and the St.Charles paper always did a great job covering them in the past too.

I think if you look at the teams that draw, they are smaller towns with no major league sports to deal with. The Indoor team is their major sports team and the only game in town so they draw pretty well. When you live where people are use to teams like the Cards , blues, and Rams they think the Rage is minor league stuff and not worth driving out to St.Charles for. I know Tye dealt with that for 3 years. He knew he had a great product but what do you do to get people out there? So far the new owners, who have given away a ton of tickets, and have done a ton of ads are not getting them either. It is really a shame because i would much rather watch the Rage play then the Rams, it is more personal and up close at the Rage games and the players are not jerks who think they are above signing an autograph or taking a picture. I am glad you get people out to the games.. If you can figure out how to keep them let the Rage know....

Anyway... Hey we made it to round 2 of the playoffs maybe this is our Year!!

GO RAGE!!!!

[Boromir2300]

"Success is defined not so much by where you end up, but where you came from to get there" -Dean Smith, retired UNC Basketball Coach

To respond to a couple of other posts-yes, the General Manager of the Rage is a 'baseball guy'. My response is, who cares? The General Manager has to manage the whole function of the team-arena issues, trying to sell tickets, sponsors, etc. Coach Stills and his staff are probably making most if not all of the personnel decisions of what players to have on the team. Also, to lose 7 straight games and then win 3 of the last 4 to make the playoffs, and then win your home playoff game-that is quite an accomplishment. Also, I am happy Coach Wyatt found a better coaching job, he did a good job for the Rage and we wish him well.

The Rage have made the playoffs for 4 straight years, with 3 of those years in the much more competitive UIF league. Though the players and coaches deserve a lot of credit, the General Manager must be doing something right to have that kind of success. When was the last time the Rams were in the playoffs anyway?

Given that the players only make $200-250 a game, it is hard to say which players will be back any given year. The fact that they had 9 different quarterbacks, lots of injuries, an offense that couldn't score consistently, crappy kicking, and a new head coach, the year went about as well as it could have. With a head coach that has NFL experience and made the playoffs, hopefully the team will attract some good players in the upcoming season.

Bring your friends and family to the Rage games next season-with cheap ticket prices and (hopefully) good quality football, it is one of the best family entertainment values around.