cities without teams

[jayme2008]

What are the top cities in california/nevada/arizona that do not currently have minor pro teams that should have teams.

[teentails]

Reno would definitely be on that list maybe Palm Springs or Santa Barbara in southern california. Tucson or Colorado Springs should be getting more pro sports teams since both of those cities have gotten bigger than what they used to be.

[Pounder]

Reno - University of Nevada. Graveyard of failed minor league teams in at least three sports (possibly four at this point if Northern Nevada Aces aren't surviving the MPSL). There is, however, a continuing movement to build a AAA-level ballpark and attract a PCL team (many rumors surround Tacoma, and Portland has had problems ever since resurrecting the Beavers).

Tucson - University of Arizona. Graveyard of failed minor league teams in several sports, but have Tucson Sidewinders of the PCL. They are looking into building an arena seating over 10K - not the best idea unless they're going to bring U of A out of McKale. U of A runs that show.

Colorado Springs - Why were they brought up? That's in Colorado.

I do have some suggestions, just none in Nevada. If Elko had a growth rate like Vegas, we could talk, but they don't.

Prescott AZ - Rumored to be building an arena at one point. Growing quite well. Still something of a small market. Has no real college competition to fight against. NOTE- Flagstaff has just barely the market size, but also has Northern Arizona AND an outdoor sports base that usually doesn't translate well to these ventures.

Yuma AZ - Maybe independent baseball just doesn't work there. Maybe it's just too hot. Maybe it's disposable income (a poor-wage town?). Something ought to work here, but nothing seems to... maybe someone can help with this.

Redding CA - Good growth rate, 80K city / 165K metro, on I-5. Drawback is that it shares a TV market with Chico... but Chico is the smaller city (yet bigger market) of the two. Redding and Chico are 70 miles from each other.

Santa Rosa CA - Rohnert Park (only about 7 miles away) was home of the Sonoma County Crushers, and that was an older ballpark with little more than a fresh coat of paint. I don't think this is so much a market that got burned, but a new ballpark or facility in the core of the area makes more sense, freeway access or no.

Merced CA - Smaller city, but larger metro than Redding, growing just as fast. It's only 25 miles from Modesto, and is probably another farm economy center that's a bit dodgy for what you might be seeking.

San Luis Obispo OR Santa Maria CA - These cities are 29 miles apart on US 101, practically on the coast. The city of SLO is smaller than Merced, but it's a larger metro... but they have Cal Poly ahtletics to support. Santa Maria is officially in the Santa Barbara metro area, but is 72 miles from Santa Barbara. Santa Maria (78K city) could be a better location to put a team, but it is a risk given the core of the market perhaps being north. BTW, Santa Barbara has its own graveyard of pro teams that probably shouldn't be re-explored.

Oceanside OR Escondido CA - Both in San Diego County, about 17 miles from each other, both bigger than 100K population, but both are about 30 miles north of San Diego.

We can talk about greater Los Angeles, but I think you're running out of new large suburban developments that have the will to pull off building a facility. I know Temecula has been a recent target (25 miles from Escondido), and I believe Ontario still dreams of an arena.

Summary - There isn't a whole league worth of viable cities available. Some markets would have to be recycled.

[HeadFirst]

I live on the wrong coast to discuss this topic intelligently -- not that such a fact would stop me -- but I do recall serious interest from a group (or groups) regarding a Western League franchise in Redding before that league went dark. From afar that seemed like a viable, untapped market with substantial recent growth, and a new park would have potentially generated at least Chico-like support.

Any left-coasters with thoughts on the GBL eventually invading Redding?

[oldfatguy]

I only know Arizona, and can't speak to California or Nevada that much except as a casual observer. As far as that goes, it seems Reno has had its share of chances, as has Yuma. Yuma seems to be drawing decently in the GBL, but who knows if that is legit or not.

Flagstaff is a great town, but I don't think they have a ballpark - it looks like Northern Arizona Univ. doesn't have a baseball team. You'd run into the beer thing there too, as the teams in St. George, Utah did.

Prescott might be ok, but it's not that big a town. The population of Prescott/Prescott Valley is only about 25,000, and there's not much around it to draw from.

Kingman has about the same, but it'd be more fun there, you could have Meth Lab Night - draw some lucky fan to have his blown-up meth lab redone.

There's really nothing to the northeast except maybe Payson, which is only about 13,000 people.

Phoenix is not a bad option, but as the GBL is learning, it's just too friggin hot to go to ballgames in the summer here. The WBL's Vipers learned that, as did the old Firebirds. They never drew all that well, because it's just too hot.

Gallup, NM, has a population of about 25,000, but it's really just a truck stop.

It looks like most new indy teams are putting themselves near populations centers, and being successful at it. That's kept the Frontier alive (teams near Chicago, St. Louis, Pittsburgh, etc.) and the Northern has been doing that (KC, Chicago) for a while. That limits Arizona and NM, as there just aren't that many population centers.

I always thought a winter league in Arizona and SoCal would work - use the spring training stadiums as the GBL does, play from Nov. 1 to Feb 1 or so. All the GBL does is use the ballparks anyway, they don't use the clubhouses or practice fields, so they'd be out before the major league staffs and early reports came to town. In Tucson, Hi Corbett is still there if you couldn't get the AAA ballpark.

The level of indy player in a winter league would be tremendous - you'd have all the best players from the indy leagues looking for a place to play, be seen and get paid. For baseball fans, there isn't another option to draw them anywhere else. No HS, college or other pro ball going on.

The weather wouldn't be a factor - the most expensive time to golf in Arizona is from October to April, there's a reason for that.

Anyway, just yammering on. Anyone wants to invest a hundred bajillion dollars in a winter Arizona league, I'm on board for that... haha.

[Pounder]

Only one issue with Mr. Guy, in regards to Prescott. 2000 Census:

Prescott: 36,300

Prescott Valley: 26,151

Total pop of Yavapai County: 179,057... mind you, there's only 14 counties in Arizona, so they're all kind of large. Cottonwood (10,055) is a substantial city in that county, and is 41 miles away from Prescott... Chino Valley and Camp Verde are close to 10K (Chino is closer to Prescott, Camp Verde isn't). I'm not aware of the number of people living in unincorporated areas right around Prescott, obviously.

Frankly, it surprised me to hear of an arena (for hockey, of all things) being planned for Prescott. However, it's not the chump kind of market Kingman might be.

Your winter league idea has merit.

[oldfatguy]

I stand corrected on the Prescott/PV numbers.

[patmc16]

And the prize for the best laugh of the day goes to...... OFG! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Kingman has about the same, but it'd be more fun there, you could have Meth Lab Night - draw some lucky fan to have his blown-up meth lab redone.

[oldfatguy]

I am humbled by the honor. Many thanks. :-)

[HeadFirst]

Props on the humor. Gives me a visual of the conclusion of the movie "Spun."

The idea of a wintertime southwestern independent league really sounds like a good one. Very much so. It's cooler, but not too cold to play baseball, and there ought to be a market for it, if marketed properly. Excellent idea.

[oldfatguy]

Thank you, I'm sure I'm not the first person to think of it. I just happened to be pitching a slow-pitch softball game one January long ago, and thought... hmmmm...

If I had more than $1.43 to my name, I'd start that kind of league. On the other hand, people have tried to start leagues with less.