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BigEastBill
03-30-2008, 09:10 PM
Hello, I was also at the game this afternoon and I had a good time. I drove to Rochester from Syracuse and it was well worth the short drive. I agree with the other posts about the Razorsharks being a very well run professional franchise. Everything was great and the fans were loud. The only thing that I did'nt like was the constant music played loudly through the whole game. After the game I was trying to get a T shirt signed and Marlin Johnson, who I had met during his brief stay with the Syracuse Raging Bullz debacle noticed that I needed a few more players signatures and he halped me and made sure I got them. He is a great guy. Here is a link to some pics that I took (sorry the quality is not so great) . I would love to see Chuck Miller's photos from the game, he is good. s240.photobucket.com/albums/ff126/bigeastbill/Razorsharks2008/

tbayz1
03-31-2008, 05:14 AM
Marlin Johnson... He is a great guy...

MJ hooked me up with tickets, he is really a great guy, very friendly, and the fans love him wherever he goes, whether it be Buffalo/Rochester/Syracuse

preeths
03-31-2008, 08:57 AM
Wow, that is an amazing crowd!

tbayz1
03-31-2008, 01:39 PM
Wow, that is an amazing crowd!

I would have guessed about 6500-7500

But heres the official attendence from the 'Sharks: 9,717 !!

Regardless of the "official" number, the crowd was absolutely fin-tastic!

bdaly
03-31-2008, 02:10 PM
I would have guessed about 6500-7500

Yeah, I had it pegged at 7,500-8,000. With the nearly four hour game, you had a lot of people leaving early (and it was a late arriving crowd with the 1pm start). But, it was pretty darn full in the first half. The backboard shattering was unfortunate, as they probably lost 2K people with the length of game and the R-Sharks fairly comfortable lead, but it was still pretty darn sizable at the end at 6Kish. And, it was a neat scene with fans storming the court.

With a hockey game scheduled as being an hour and fifteen minutes after the game ended, I was fearful they'd really limit the ceremony, but they got the full thing in. The crew must have done a great job to have the hockey game start an hour and a half later. They went from hockey, to indoor football, to indoor lacrosse, to basketball, to hockey in the course of just under 48 hours, so there was a lot of OT there I'd bet...

not so fast
03-31-2008, 05:24 PM
Well the challenge for the league is too get at least one third of that size of a crowd to go all the games for all the other teams.

If Quad Cities, Arkansas, Rockford, and Dallas and Chicago could average at least 1000 a game next season, that would be hugh. I hope the league focuses in on that and not worry so much about expansion and showcases.

The league will have to address the statistics issues that were really poorly done. game tape was also not up to standards.

I said it before, and I will say it again. No one wants to play in the PBL for life, they are all trying to get jobs elsewhere.

If small junior colleges can have stats kept accurately and game tape for each game, then the league needs to invest in paying for stat people and camera people to film games every game. Maybe fly third class or take cheaper buses, but resources needs to put in place to address these issues.

Finally, referees must be upgraded next season as well. And coaches code of conduct must be implemented as well. if the coaches are out of line, then the league should fine the owners a hefty fine. It is there job to keep their employees in line!

bdaly
03-31-2008, 06:16 PM
Here are a few of my photos from the game:

http://www.kodakgallery.com/ShareLandingSignin.jsp?Uc=a71frz6.78c7rlgi&Uy=tegcwo&Upost_signin=Slideshow.jsp%3Fmode%3Dfromshare&Ux=0&UV=358391873368_114322046306&localeid=en_US

On the last post, I think expansion/merger becomes important so there's a more economical footprint. For example, in the northeast, if you take Rochester and Buffalo's new PBL team along with Albany and Pittsburgh from the CBA, you've got a strong division where you can stick to bus travel. I don't doubt for a second the PBL Showcase at least partially occured because Jacksonville and Dallas were more than willing to forfeit dates. It was a strong first season by minor league basketball standards, but now that they've proven themselves, I expect a weak link or two to fall by the wayside while a few new teams come on board.

DazedAndAmused
03-31-2008, 06:30 PM
Well the challenge for the league is too get at least one third of that size of a crowd to go all the games for all the other teams.

If Quad Cities, Arkansas, Rockford, and Dallas and Chicago could average at least 1000 a game next season, that would be hugh. I hope the league focuses in on that and not worry so much about expansion and showcases.

The league will have to address the statistics issues that were really poorly done. game tape was also not up to standards.

I said it before, and I will say it again. No one wants to play in the PBL for life, they are all trying to get jobs elsewhere.

If small junior colleges can have stats kept accurately and game tape for each game, then the league needs to invest in paying for stat people and camera people to film games every game. Maybe fly third class or take cheaper buses, but resources needs to put in place to address these issues.

Finally, referees must be upgraded next season as well. And coaches code of conduct must be implemented as well. if the coaches are out of line, then the league should fine the owners a hefty fine. It is there job to keep their employees in line!

I agree with alot of what you say here notsofast, but I think that the bulk of the issue (attendance, stats) may be in the West. Why I am not sure. The East division seemed to be getting decent attendance and from what I can tell and did well posting stats. (For some reason I think that not all teams got fully on board with the league stat program.) I didn't hear that game tapes were a problem, but if so, I believe that may have been more of an issue in the west as well. I especially agree about the coaches staying in line. It is almost as if they believed in some cases they needed to be outrageous and incredulous just to get noticed. I will disagree about one statement though, at least relative to some of the other minor leagues (none in particular.) Jax/Dallas aside I have actually heard several players talk about how much more professional and positive their PBL experiences were than the other independent leagues. Of course, they would all rather be in the Dleague or big show if possible. But, I also know of several guys who passed up five figure per month European salaries to stay in the PBL. Someone correct me please if I am wrong about the issues in the west vs. east. Notsofast, your experiences may be mostly in the west...not sure.

tbayz1
03-31-2008, 07:36 PM
http://www.democratandchronicle.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?template=zoom&Site=A2&Date=20080331&Category=SPORTS&ArtNo=803310330&Ref=AR&Profile=1007

Props to that photographer from the D&C!!

DazedAndAmused
03-31-2008, 07:40 PM
http://www.democratandchronicle.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?template=zoom&Site=A2&Date=20080331&Category=SPORTS&ArtNo=803310330&Ref=AR&Profile=1007

Props to that photographer from the D&C!!

This is sweet. Thanks for posting.

Pounder
04-01-2008, 09:23 AM
You're being warned. My proofreading snark is on.

If Quad Cities, Arkansas, Rockford, and Dallas and Chicago could average at least 1000 a game next season, that would be hugh.

First reaction: who's Hugh?

Second thought: Huge is like really big. Hugh is... um... hmmm...

Third thought: Hugh Hefner? Big empire, lots of chicks, you WANT to know him. You want to BE him.

Conclusion: You're spot on. Never mind me. Carry on.

not so fast
04-01-2008, 10:35 AM
Sorry, I will work on my spelling. But in the meantime, I will say that the PBL was a good league overall in its 1st year. Hopefully they will address the issues that need to be addressed so we don't have two seasons with the same problems. If not, it will have an ABA feel to the league. And that won't feel good!

Will the PBL announce awards like coach of the year, and MVP, and all league players? They should.

And one last non-related question: This actually can be a trivia question:
How many teams was Don sellers an assistant too this past year? We may have to call him Don Sellout!

bdaly
04-01-2008, 10:49 AM
If not, it will have an ABA feel to the league. And that won't feel good!

Nah, it wouldn't be that bad, as they play their games--big difference. ;)

But, yes, I expect them to improve in many of the areas you mentioned. First job is to get a strong core of teams and play your games, now they can build on that and take it to the next level. I continue to hope for a PBL/CBA merger that'll result in a strong, independent U.S. winter league.

Pounder
04-01-2008, 04:00 PM
Here's hoping next year is Hugh. ;)

TopSpin
04-02-2008, 08:12 AM
Yeah, I had it pegged at 7,500-8,000. With the nearly four hour game, you had a lot of people leaving early (and it was a late arriving crowd with the 1pm start). But, it was pretty darn full in the first half. The backboard shattering was unfortunate, as they probably lost 2K people with the length of game and the R-Sharks fairly comfortable lead, but it was still pretty darn sizable at the end at 6Kish. And, it was a neat scene with fans storming the court. Financially, I would say that backboard shattering was indeed a setback. Arena backboards are not cheat! Not to mention it put the arena behind schedule. Whatever little bit of money they earned from this crowd, they had to give back for that backboard collapse.

As far as the league expanding. They must! There was a couple of teams that simply needs to be replaced. You can't finish a season, you don't get a second crack at it (Jacksonville). Change of owners, maybe, but I will be really suspect. New teams who stood on the sidelines watching to see if this thing is legit, if this is a league I would want to invest in. Those are the teams you want on board and you expand to bring them in, and collapse teams like Jacksonville. Set the tone, we don't want half-as$ teams.

As far as the CBA merger. I really don't see it happening unless CBA brass steps down or sells out. They are still living out of 2-person officiating for the regular season for men's semi-pro ball. This in itself is ridiculous! Shows you what type of people they have running this league, operating on the cheap, and I for one sureashell don't want to see them get involved with any other league out here. I'll take the CBA teams but not any part of their management. That type of management, I don't see giving in to anybody.

bdaly
04-02-2008, 08:24 AM
The flipside to it is the concessions stands and merchandise booth were packed during the repair. I don't know if they get a piece of the concessions--I know the hockey team doesn't although they get signage and luxury box revenue--but if they do (because they don't get those things), it probably wasn't a terrible thing financially.

DazedAndAmused
04-02-2008, 08:32 AM
.....a shattered backboard is not forgotten by the fans. It is perceived as a "very cool" thing. I have seen one other live..10 yrs ago...and I remember it like it was yesterday. It was worth it for the league. IMO

wellington
04-02-2008, 07:39 PM
http://www.democratandchronicle.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?template=zoom&Site=A2&Date=20080331&Category=SPORTS&ArtNo=803310330&Ref=AR&Profile=1007

Props to that photographer from the D&C!!

Mad props!

BBallFan - Long Island
04-03-2008, 03:49 PM
I've been in the War Memorial in Rochester, and I didn't think it could hold that many people, but if you go to the arena's website it can hold 12,000 plus if you include the floor. Good for the league, and good for the city with all the crap about the Amerks.

As for the pictures of the shattered backboard glass, pleasant memories of the last (real) ABA game between the New York Nets and Denver Nuggets when the Nets came from 20 down in the 3rd quarter to win the last championship. The fans stormed the floor and were trying to rip the net from the rim. Too many fans were pulling and the whole backboard shattered into a million pieces. Was to this day the greatest basketball game I've ever seen.

bdaly
04-03-2008, 05:55 PM
I've been in the War Memorial in Rochester, and I didn't think it could hold that many people, but if you go to the arena's website it can hold 12,000 plus if you include the floor.

They renovated the arena in the late 90s and increased capacity from 7,200 to 11,200 (plus floor).

TopSpin
04-04-2008, 02:34 PM
The flipside to it is the concessions stands and merchandise booth were packed during the repair. I don't know if they get a piece of the concessions--I know the hockey team doesn't although they get signage and luxury box revenue--but if they do (because they don't get those things), it probably wasn't a terrible thing financially.Yea but...you have to think beyond the short term here. For business reasons, that shattered backboard could be very costly in terms of insurance. Did a player get hurt? Did a fan get injured from the glass. Who's liable? By putting the arena behind, that could be a very costly figure to the arena which gets passed on to the team, and as such, additional fees come in to play. Kind of like picking your kid up late from day care, you late, you pay, and you pay premium. So even if they did get concessions, they probably had to give it all back in late fees and backboard/maintenance costs.

Yea, it's probably something that as a fan you never forget, but as a player, even on the opposing team, all that weight or glass falls down on you, you get injured, career over or questionable. Who's liable? You got the team pointing at the arena, suspect equipment; you got the arena pointing at the team, players out of control. Later, lawyers adding up their fees, ching-Ching! All in all, not a good thing from a business point of view.