not so fast Steelhead fans

[not so fast]

Well I just read all this stuff about Gary winning and Gary having this great roster, well somebody better tell the Holland team and their star player Bledsoe.
That young man is a real talent. I don't think Gary has anyone on their team that good. He had 36 pts and 22 rebounds? I know its the IBL, but shouldnt there be a little defense played, I mean the kid Bledsoe is only 6-3.

Well Gary has now downsized from the CBA to the USBL, to the IBL, and with all these downsizings come all the calls that they are going to dominate and spend all this money and can't be beat.

Well the USBL season was disaster, and it looks like the IBL season could be on the same path. i checked out this great roster. What great roster? In addition, someone said Rob Griffin played in the NBA. With who and what NBA team?

And as far as Mack is concerned, I would rather take a local young, hungry 24 or 25 year old player. Playing this guy and having him on the roster is nothing to brag about. This should be a development league, this should not be something for a has been, washed up, beer drinking, pot smoking, relics.

[Ken, Steelheads fan]

Well I just read all this stuff about Gary winning and Gary having this great roster, well somebody better tell the Holland team and their star player Bledsoe.
That young man is a real talent. I don't think Gary has anyone on their team that good. He had 36 pts and 22 rebounds? I know its the IBL, but shouldnt there be a little defense played, I mean the kid Bledsoe is only 6-3.

Well Gary has now downsized from the CBA to the USBL, to the IBL, and with all these downsizings come all the calls that they are going to dominate and spend all this money and can't be beat.

Well the USBL season was disaster, and it looks like the IBL season could be on the same path. i checked out this great roster. What great roster? In addition, someone said Rob Griffin played in the NBA. With who and what NBA team?

And as far as Mack is concerned, I would rather take a local young, hungry 24 or 25 year old player. Playing this guy and having him on the roster is nothing to brag about. This should be a development league, this should not be something for a has been, washed up, beer drinking, pot smoking, relics.

Hmmmmmm. Downsizing?!? The CBA is only a shell of its former self, the USBL is no more, and the IBL is looking more and more attractive each year. Not so sure the Steelheads' one USBL season was a disaster. Although, Cliff Levingston didn't seem to get the most out of his talent. Not so sure the Steelheads are downsizing either, not so fast. There's the D-League, then there's everyone else.

I think bballnut misspoke when stating that Rob Griffin AND Sam Mack played in the NBA. Only Sam Mack played in the NBA. The IBL isn't supposed to be a developmental league. It's supposed to be a league where owners have a chance to survive financially. It's supposed to be comparable to independent league baseball. If a player develops his skills, then fine. Otherwise, it's all about fan entertainment and trying to stay in business. I'll take an established veteran like Sam Mack any day to an unproven developing player. Teams win with their veterans.

Rob Griffin hasn't played a game for the Steelheads yet (as of the date of this posting) and the Steeheads record is 3-1. Too early to pronounce the Steelheads on the road to disaster...but, you know that already--don't you? :wink:

Edit: Ahhhhhh, I just read this article. No wonder you mentioned Holland. The Steelheads are 3-2 as of this date:
http://www.nwitimes.com/articles/2008/03/29/sports/top_sports/doc6072b89c7a186c2c8625741b0013eb4c.txt

[not so fast]

Well then Ken, why not just suit up norm van Lier for the steelies? I mean the Bulls season will be done soon, and he wont be busy in the studio, and Im sure he might have played against Mack, and hey he could help with attendance. not to mention "John red Kerr", im sure he's available. and yes the IBL is downsizing. crumbling or not, check the operating budgets of the CBA, USBL, IBL.

and two losses in a row, giving up over 140 points, does not seem like a team of destiny that you and your blind friends predicted. and my knowledge of griffin is defense is not his specialty, so maybe when he arrives the plan is to win 160 to 150. And you are right, this not a developmental league, except for people majoring in math.

[winds55]

I don't know what you have against the Gary, not so fast, but I think you're way off base. Going to the IBL isn't downsizing for any team. The IBL is getting stronger each year. Sure some teams don't survive, but others work through the growing pains any new league has and get stronger. The fact that Gary joined the IBL rather than folding all together speaks well for the Steelheads.

The IBL isn't meant to be a development league. It wouldn't be nearly as exciting if it was. The teams have a combination of experienced players (many of whom play basketball year-round in various leagues) and fresh-out-of-college kids who might have a chance in the D-league and ultimately the NBA if they get some experience and strength under their jerseys. I can only speak from my experience as an Express fan, but we love to see the experienced players return, congratulate the players that move on to other opportunities, and welcome the new players with open arms. We'll learn the new guys' numbers, cheer the talents they bring to the group, and love the fact that so many of 'our guys' have returned.

[not so fast]

I have nothing against Gary. Their Owner Jewel Harris is a class act. I have great respect for him, i just don't think this a league for old vets like that. I used to coach in this league, so I know it well. And Elkhart does a fantastic job as an organization.

An older veteran player should be there to be a mentor, not the main guy. When John Jackson came and played in the PBL this season for Rockford then Quad cities, he came off the bench and was a great leader of the younger players. He loved that role. So it all depends on how the old vet is used.

Tell me, would you want to see Shawn Kemp play for Elkhart and take away a starting spot from a now starter?

[Ken, Steelheads fan]

I have nothing against Gary. Their Owner Jewel Harris is a class act. I have great respect for him, i just don't think this a league for old vets like that. I used to coach in this league, so I know it well. And Elkhart does a fantastic job as an organization.

An older veteran player should be there to be a mentor, not the main guy. When John Jackson came and played in the PBL this season for Rockford then Quad cities, he came off the bench and was a great leader of the younger players. He loved that role. So it all depends on how the old vet is used.

Tell me, would you want to see Shawn Kemp play for Elkhart and take away a starting spot from a now starter?

There is an article (from the NWI Times, I think) suggesting that Glenn "Big Dog" Robinson wants to come out of retirement and play for the Steelheads. I'm too lazy to find it though. Let me answer the question...YES, I would like to see Glenn Robinson take a starting spot away from another player if it meant seeing Glenn in a Gary uniform. Why would I care if he took someone's starting position? It's the business of basketball.

[bballnut]

Rob Griffin was on the Piston pre-season roster last year. I saw him play. This is a development league. Just like any other league, you need a combo of vets and young players. With the money Gary is paying players, Ron had better up grade. Holland's pay roll is not even half of Gary's is. If Ron offers Blodsoe some money, he might come to Gary. This league does not have binding contract, so a player can go anywhere they want, at any time, for more money. Open the check book.

[not so fast]

Sounds like Gary is having chemistry issues, and as much as I like Jewel, he has had this problem almost every year since the Steelheads started, except the year that Snap Hunter played and Jackson coached, that year the Stealheads had the best Chemistry, which I believe was there last year in the CBA.

For me winning is the only thing I consider entertainment, so if you have old vets who used to play in the NBA, and you are losing, thats not entertainment. Unless you are doing a fundraiser, benefit type game.

I don't think Bledsoe would jump to Gary just for the money. Some of these guys like the situation they are in. I know several PBL players were offered more money to go play in the CBA, but turned it down.

Gary, with all due respect, is not a town that players and people are clamering to go to.

[Ken, Steelheads fan]

Gary, with all due respect, is not a town that players and people are clamering to go to.

I'll respond with two words: Jamario Moon.

...okay, okay. I'm using more than two words. The people will come when something is being offered. I've seen you at several Steelheads games over the years...and Gary is a long drive from your starting point in northern Illinois. The Gary baseball team a few blocks away (in the same neighborhood, btw) averages 3600 fans over the course of 48 home dates. I'm not sure what your point is...if there is one. Gary is within the Chicago metro market.

With that said, the Steelheads need to do more to attract and keep their season ticket holders. The Genesis Center skyboxes and party deck have been under-utilized over the years as well. If you look at the home opener pics I took, you will see that nothing is going on on the second floor deck. All the action is going on behind this party deck (which is open to all).:
http://www.oursportscentral.com/boards/showthread.php?t=7683&page=5

[not so fast]

Testy are'nt we ken? My point is Gary does have an image problem, I'm sorry I am not the politically correct type. And most players if they have an option, would rather be in a nicer environment. Don't get defensive about Gary. It's okay, I'm sure you can draw fans for baseball games and thats great. But we have had this conversation before. I am not one who loves driving down Broadway in Gary. It can be a little scary.

But the real problem for the Steelheads traditionally is not Jewel spending money or caring, he is a very good owner, he just has not understood fully the concept of team chemistry, and getting the right mix of players. And mostly, the coaches he has hired over the years, has let him down.

[Ken, Steelheads fan]

Testy are'nt we ken? My point is Gary does have an image problem, I'm sorry I am not the politically correct type. And most players if they have an option, would rather be in a nicer environment. Don't get defensive about Gary. It's okay, I'm sure you can draw fans for baseball games and thats great. But we have had this conversation before. I am not one who loves driving down Broadway in Gary. It can be a little scary.

But the real problem for the Steelheads traditionally is not Jewel spending money or caring, he is a very good owner, he just has not understood fully the concept of team chemistry, and getting the right mix of players. And mostly, the coaches he has hired over the years, has let him down.

Fair enough. Gary has an image problem. That's why minor league sports have been encouraged by city government. Gary's governing body wants to showcase professional sports to South Chicago and Northwest Indiana residents. I don't agree with your assessment on most players. Sounds more like you are offering an opinion. I can cite a couple of examples of players that came to Gary for the exposure (and possibly the money): Snap Hunter and Jamario Moon. Can you give me an few examples of players refusing to come to Gary because Gary is not so nice an environment?!?

Yeah, we've had that conversation about Broadway before. Actually, it's one of the SAFER parts of Gary. However, there ARE some neighborhoods that will make your hair stand on end. 8)

[not so fast]

sorry ken can't give out that information, that was private conversations I had with some agents that are friends of mine. But don't make a big deal out of it. I mean there are other places such as Montana or the dakotas that players didnt want to play at either. Obviously for different reasons, but players do have preferences.

As for Snap Hunter who I know personally, somehow I don't think Broadway street in Gary would scare him, I think he would fit in quite nice actually. Just ask the Indiana Pacers about that. And Moon had played at so many places, well Gary was beginning to be his best option at the time.

And as for Northeast Illinois, well this is no bed of roses. Zion, Waukegan, North Chicago, is not much different than Gary. And at least you have professional sports, we have (God Forbid) strip malls, rib joints, and a theme park, and thats in Gurnee for heavens sake. But we do have the best rib joints, I have tried yours in Gary, no chance to beat ours.