Three Game Series Now -------------

[Cazzzmo]

wow, did anybody catch the postgame radio interview of Cav asst. coach Minor?? he wasn't too happy. can't blame him. -------------- can somebody that was at the game in person provide an unbiased assessment of the officiating?? ----------------- i'll stick to my Minot in 4 prognastication. crazy game. i hope both teams play better as they finish this off. go 'rockets!!

[Cazzzmo]

"""""Richardson and co. blasted the officials after the game on the record. The foul differential was 28 fouls against the Cavalry vs. 17 against the Skyrockets.
Free throws- Minot was 29-for-44; Oklahoma was 14-of-22.
However, the real killer was the turnovers, as the Cavalry had 28 total and 17 in the first half while Minot had 16 the entire game.
""""""""


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MRR on the record? I didn't hear him on the radio, was that to the local TV or newspaper?? again, I'd like to see a word or two about the refs from someone that was there (dont wanna wait to talk to the minot folks that were down there). mustve been a pretty sloppy affair. oh well. the magic 95 announcer-announcer-announcer even said that Lawton made a ton of awful passes, etc. they better be ready in M-Town after nota lotta sleep!!!

[OKCAVS67]

I was at the game. Sitting behind the Minot bench in the corner.

First let me say this. I have no voice.

The Crowd was awesome. 1801 at the game, but it sounded like over 4000 was there.

CAVS lost this one because of turnovers and not being able to freaking score in the last 5 minutes of the game.

Now, for what was asked....

Unbiased account of the officiating. Don't think that can happen. I don't know which is worse, two refs that can't call a foul or two that calls every ticky tacky thing or two that calls fouls that aren't there.

MAN - lets just say this, I pray to GOD that these two yahoo's are not officiating up in Minot. If they are, then Minot will win the series.

Cavs were getting slapped and grabbed under the basket and the refs just turned a blind eye to it. I could see most of the action at the end of the game and I was amazed at what was going on under the basket.

It got so bad in the second and third quarter that the CAVS seemed to stop playing good defense because every time they tired to stop Minot they would be called for a foul of some sort.
Yes, there were some legit calls, but I would have to say 60% of them were bogus ones.

You know its bad when the Refs have to be escorted to the dressing rooms by security guards and then a guard posted a the door for just in case.

[OKCAVS67]

"""""Richardson and co. blasted the officials after the game on the record. The foul differential was 28 fouls against the Cavalry vs. 17 against the Skyrockets.
Free throws- Minot was 29-for-44; Oklahoma was 14-of-22.
However, the real killer was the turnovers, as the Cavalry had 28 total and 17 in the first half while Minot had 16 the entire game.
""""""""


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MRR on the record? I didn't hear him on the radio, was that to the local TV or newspaper?? again, I'd like to see a word or two about the refs from someone that was there (dont wanna wait to talk to the minot folks that were down there). mustve been a pretty sloppy affair. oh well. the magic 95 announcer-announcer-announcer even said that Lawton made a ton of awful passes, etc. they better be ready in M-Town after nota lotta sleep!!!

Greg Minor the Assistant Coach was the one talking about it on the radio.

If I am not mistaken, PRECIOUS ROY works for the local paper. He should have a great article in the paper tomorrow.

When there is 11 more fouls called against a team, it is really hard for them to win the game.

[glbrz]

Minot was shooting a pair of foul shots
After the 1st one the Ref stops the game
Talks to the other Ref
Talks to both coaches
Talks to the score keeper
Takes a point from the Cavs
Takes the Cav’s Adam Spanich to the other end
Adam shoots one to get the point back
Then they go back to the other end
Minot shoots the second foul shot
Somebody PLEASE tell me if I’m wrong!

Congratulations to the SKYROCKETS, you have a great team, and that was a great shot by Ronnie Fields

[Kev the Cav]

I try my best to be unbiased and I usually hate to hear fans say the refs cost them (because it's an excuse that gets used WAY too much), but I truly felt the refs did a horrible job. I won't say that all the bad calls went the Skyrockets way, because they blew a few that went our way- in my opinion.

There was someone from league office (one player told me he was the head guy of the CBA) and I saw him talking to one of the Cavs' owners and later he and Micheal Ray Richardson sat down in the seats on the side of the court and talked.

The player I talked to was pretty down and said it felt weird to have the refs so against them, especially in a home game. He said they could never get a good lead, because of all the foul calls and he was surprised the officials were so bad right in front of the head of the league.

I guess what is so frustrating is that despite all the calls we thought were questionable, we still had a chance to win. We had several shots right around the basket late and couldn't get them to fall. We also turned the ball over a lot, but Minot's defenders sure do a good job of getting their arms in the passing lanes. I told my daughter during the game, that those guys must have 8 arms each, because it looks like a Cav is open when the pass is made, but then an arm reaches out and deflects it. I guess there's a reason Minot had 2 of the 5 CBA All-Defense team...

[Kev the Cav]

Minot was shooting a pair of foul shots
After the 1st one the Ref stops the game
Talks to the other Ref
Talks to both coaches
Talks to the score keeper
Takes a point from the Cavs
Takes the Cav’s Adam Spanich to the other end
Adam shoots one to get the point back
Then they go back to the other end
Minot shoots the second foul shot
Somebody PLEASE tell me if I’m wrong!

Congratulations to the SKYROCKETS, you have a great team, and that was a great shot by Ronnie Fields


I didn't understand what was going on there. I didn't notice if they took a point away- I thought they had called a technical on Minot. Then again, I think Haywood would have shot instead of Spanich if it was a technical.

[glbrz]

The league official was Dennis Truax, CBA Vice President of Basketball Operations. I hope he was keeping track of the bad calls, because those stats won't be on the record. I heard one fan say after the game "That was the worst officiating I have ever seen in any sport at any level". I agree that blaming the officiating for loosing the game is the wrong thing to do. These are two very evenly matched teams. All the players and coaches have done a fantastic job!!!! (Did I mention the Refs in that compliment? NO I DIDN"T!!!) I think the bald one was trying to impress Mr. Truax.

[FrontOffice]

I posted this in another thread but that official is Dennis Truax and Chris Daleo's boy. He is a local Minot high school graduate and officiates most Minot home game. The fact that he was doing a CBA Championship game is a slap in the face to the entire league. There will be no ramifications from this and don't be suprised if these two officials travel back to Minot and finish the series.

By the way, that official is notorious for telling opposing complaining coaches, "Dare you to complain to the league about me, see if anything happens." No accountability at all.

[OKCAVS67]

It is really hard to believe that the CBA would allow a biased ref to officate a game. If the bald yahoo is from Minot, then I am just flabbergasted by it all.

IMO there should be 3 refs for the finals. Two refs can't see everything. When a title is on the line there should be enough eyes to ensure a fair and even called game.

Last night was just terrible.

Yeah, The Cavs had a ton of turnovers. Yeah, the Cavs had their share of fouls, LEGIT called against them and for them. But there should never be this much of a differential in fouls in a Championship series. Totally lopsided.

There were people around me saying that they have seen better called games in Elementary basketball games officated by high school students.

[Cazzzmo]

FRONT OFFICE: the guy that you're apparently referencing is NOT a "Minot High" guy........ if its a husky dude, yes, balding and about 6'2", that guy is from Devils Lake ND (about 3 hours from Minot) and he was doing minor league ball long before the Skyrockets came to Minot. His name escapes me at the moment but I can make a quick phone call to get it. Anyways, I really don't think he's Daleo's "boy". And, honestly, what we've seen of him in Minot I'd say he's a better than average CBA Ref. Not fantastic but definitely better than most that have come thru. I'd like to know exactly who did the game last night ......... there's a ''ref duo'' out there that's scary they're so bad but I've never seen them split-up (therefore not working with the Devils Lake ND guy.....). Anyway, I'll reserve comment because I was obviously not at the game in person (and had to listen on the radio as opposed to trying to watch the webcast) but be it known that Minot has gotten ''hosed'' in a big way on their home court a number of times this year. I would admit it almost does seem as though the CBA crews try to keep games close, sans the expected blowouts when the sparse Krunk squad was on the road.

[Cazzzmo]

two quick things:

1>>> yes, I know who it was on the radio last night after the game (Minor) . . . . see the first post in the thread


2>>> i wish and hope somebody got a little video of Ronnie's game winner last night and that they'll post it on YouTube. if somebody's got it, please, please post it!!!

[USBasket_EricE]

Mark Riggs. That's the ref from Devils Lake. He was HORRIBLE even when the Dakota Wizards were in the CBA. I can't believe he still has a job. We would get stuck with him all the time here in Bismarck.

Anyway, GO MINOT!!!!!!!!!

[Kev the Cav]

Mark Riggs. That's the ref from Devils Lake. He was HORRIBLE even when the Dakota Wizards were in the CBA. I can't believe he still has a job. We would get stuck with him all the time here in Bismarck.

Anyway, GO MINOT!!!!!!!!!

You guys know your CBA. That is the ref. He wears #8. I googled his name and found a list of CBA referees at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continental_Basketball_Association

The other referee wore #10, but he's not on the list...

Riggs seemed to enjoy making the fans boo. He was laughing a couple times when we got real loud.

It's funny in hindsight, but at the start of game one I told my daughter I was glad to see referee #8 out there. He'd done a couple of our games - I think against Yakama- and seemed pretty good.

[SUNKINGS]

I am not positive but the "Devils Lake dork" Is the head CBA referee.
On a lighter note I saw him shopping at the mall on Valentines day. And I walked up to him and told him the Eye glasses store is right around the corner. Of course that went racing over his head. Then I explained , I knew he was a ref. He still struggled with it . What a major dumbass.

[Kev the Cav]

I am not positive but the "Devils Lake dork" Is the head CBA referee.
On a lighter note I saw him shopping at the mall on Valentines day. And I walked up to him and told him the Eye glasses store is right around the corner. Of course that went racing over his head. Then I explained , I knew he was a ref. He still struggled with it . What a major dumbass.

Sunkings, if that is true, it's hilarious. If it's not true, don't tell me. I want to believe!

Hopefully, he won't ref another finals game. Whether he's being unfair or is just inept, I think the league should get another pair to ref the Minot games.

[SUNKINGS]

Actually I am coming clean. I saw the other ref (the short older guy with the weatherman hair) Larry Killups at the mall and said it to him.(with said response) But I also saw Mark Riggs shopping on valentines day. And he is a dumbass. So basically it is all true, in some sort of NW stoned way.

By the way by the way, did I mention did I mention, the OK radio guy had like 6 cell phones in front of him to broadcast the OK/YAK game. One of the most awesome sites i have seen.

[USBasket_EricE]

I was just checking that Wiki list of CBA refs and there are more stories I can share. Ron Arthur has a history of being a terrible ref in Bismarck. Game 2 - 2003 National Conference Finals - Yakima @ Dakota - Arthur was one of the two refs officiating that game...let me put it this way, in the fourth quarter the entire arena was chanting "These refs suck! These refs suck!....." Obviously the Sun Kings won that game and eventually made it to the championship game and won it. The Sioux Falls Skyforce picked up their first ever victory in Bismarck during the 2003-2004 season (I believe it was the same day Saddam Hussein was found), guess who was officiating that game?? Yep. Arthur. He wears #14 BTW.

Shannon Bone. He's the white guy that jogs up and down the court for a few minutes before every game. In the Wiki article, it mentions that Bone has officiated championship games. That's true. He was in Bismarck for the 2004 Title game between the Wizards and the Idaho Stampede. He and Doug Rogan. Before that game I was thinking "Oh crap, the Wizards are toast." But it ended up being a good game after all. Bone does have a history. Nothing specific comes to mind though...

I see Jesse Bromley is listed too. Let me just say this, if I recognize a ref's name, it most likely means they are trouble. One name I don't see is Jesse Hall. That's good, for the current CBA teams' sakes.

Back when the Wizards were in the CBA, one of the team's sponsors was a place that sells eye glasses. Every time a ref made a terrible call that got the crowd on their feet booing, the PA announcer would read the following advertisement pitch: "Do you need your eyes examined? For excellent eye care, go to...." I had to laugh every time I heard that. Also, the people running the scoreboard liked to put messages up on it every time there was a bad call. It has TV screens, so what they would do is zoom in on the ref that made the call, and put large text over him that read "YOU BLEW THAT CALL". They only did that for one season. I wish they'd do it more often.

The D-League has some pretty crappy refs as well (3 per game), but I think the CBA's refs are still worse. I haven't been to very many Wizards games this season, but I did attend the one when the Los Angeles D-Fenders were in town. At halftime, as both teams were heading towards the locker rooms, the 3 idiots walked to center court and received the loudest boos I had ever heard. I stood up with 2 thumbs down and the other people in my section followed my lead. It felt good, man.

Some advice for the fans of the Skyrockets and Cavalry, just pray that the refs I mentioned above are NOT going to be calling the last 3 games of the Finals. The games will be better and not as stressful. I have a little dilemma for which team I should root for. Both teams have a former Dakota Wizard. Kevin Rice in Minot and Shawn Daniels in Oklahoma. It's hard to pick one over the other, but in the end I'm going for Minot. NORTH DAKOTA PRIDE LOL!!

[Cazzzmo]

for what its worth, Riggs seems to be on duty during the '06 CBA Finals as depicted in this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFRHwAjGSGg
(if the link doesn't work, search "CBA Gary" on YouTube)

......... more evidence of what i'd mentioned earlier pertaining to him being a CBA regular long before the Minot team was around. anyways, i'll stick to my assessment that he's better than most in this league but i will admit that's not saying much. i've definitely seen a lot stuff called rather differently in my two years watching closely in Minot. hate to dissappoint but i'd be willing to bet he's on duty for at least one more game and maybe two in this series.

[CBA Veteran]

It is amazing that when the Cavs lose a game, bad officiating is the reason.

I guess it doesn't matter that:

1-They don't score a bucket for the last half of the final period
2-They miss a wide open three in the closing seconds
3-They rebound the missed three and miss a follow
4-They fail to guard the inbounder and the inbounder makes them pay with a game-winning three

None of that matters because the loss was due to bad officiating.

It was also amazing that one of the "classy" owners of the Cavs went out onto the court, ripped off his jacket and threw it to the floor. When you have a coach like Michael Ray and an ownership group that allows the man to act like a fool on the court, it stands to reason that the ownership group will soon follow.

[CBA Veteran]

You know its bad when the Refs have to be escorted to the dressing rooms by security guards and then a guard posted a the door for just in case.


Just so you know, CBA rules dictate that the officials are to be escorted off the floor and to the dressing room by security guards. And that a guard is located outside their dressing room

[FrontOffice]

I for one don't believe that bad officiating was the reason for the Cavalry loss. Minot could have just as easily come back if there referees were fantastic. Either way, OK had opportunities and it didn't happen for them.

I do have to wonder how a CBA official, but more importantly the cavalry score clock operator, allows Ronnie Fields to get that shot off in 1.4 seconds. It wasn't just a catch in shoot, mind you. Field inbounded the ball and it was passed back to him. Even if it was a tip pass, the clock starts on that tip, so it's amazing that in 1.4 seconds all that occurred.

[psbf]

Maybe the clock was started late and nobody caught it.

[Crystal Ball]

Come on ...now it's the game clock operator who is at fault?Who else are we going to blame for the Cavs Loss,first we blame it on the Refs and if that won't stick lets go after the game clock operator.Do you guys realize how much can be done in 1.4 seconds.

Lets not look at ALL the turnovers or missed shots that The Cavs had and lets look to blame others for our shortcomings.Lets see,Maybe it was the ball,yea thats it,it was wet all the time we had it and that caused all the turnovers and missed shots,and when Minot had the ball it was dry,Yea that is what I am going with. :eek:

[panchess]

..so blaming the clock is silly. There have been "hometown" clock operators in a lot of arenas, so if Ronnie hits it tonight, I would take a second look....

[FrontOffice]

I guess you didn't get it, cause that was my point. I wasn't even blaming him.

[wha happen'd?]

It's Always Funny When The Argument Is Made That One Team Had More Fouls Than The Other And That Somehow That Indicates Poor Officiating. Hilarious. Yes, We Should All Know That God & Naismith Created Basketball To Be Played 100% ''even Steven'' And Each Game Should Entail Two Teams That Attempt The Same Number Of Shots At The Same Field Goal Percentage, The Same From The Line, Have The Same Number Of Rebounds (off. & Def. Too) And Of Course Have The Same Number Of Fouls Called On Them. Oh Yeah, Every Game Is Supposed To End In A 10 O.t. Tie Too. God & Naismith Knew That There's No Possible Way A Given Team Might Play More Aggressively Or Sloppy And Commit More Fouls Than Another. Simply And Completely Impossible!!

[Crystal Ball]

Or the fact that the style of play will surely skew the number of fouls called against one team or another.

One team is living from the outside and the other is taking it to the basket.

Hmm ...wonder which team will likely have more fouls called against them.

Minot taking it the basket and Lawton/Ft Sill attempting to live from the outside,if Lawton/Ft Sill would have hit some of those outside shots we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Didnot hear a sound when those shots were falling in game one and they won,but when they miss those open looks we have to point blame on someone other than the players.....Refs,Game Clock Operator,Mascot,Ballboys...Pick one I am sure they are the reason the Calvary Lost...

[FrontOffice]

I love the over-reactions. God (& Naismith) forbid someone make an observation or voice a frustration. It's not like this is a message board or anything. I failed to see where anyone wrote "the refs cost oklahoma the game." Instead everyone wants to take comments as excuses.

Yes, Minot won. Yes, the refs were terrible (par for the season ifor the most part). Yes, MRR goes insane from time to time but is still a good coach.

For clarification, to those who thought I was blaming the score clock operator of the home team for screwing his own team... I wasn't. My comment was to say that it always suprises me how shots and plays get off under the clock at the end of games. Things that we know have a small chance of being done in the limited time. This is surely one of them. Is it anyone's fault? Absolutely not. Stop reading into my words.

[Crystal Ball]

Frontoffice Man,

Here are your words..."I do have to wonder how a CBA official, but more importantly the cavalry score clock operator, allows Ronnie Fields to get that shot off in 1.4 seconds'...

So who is reading into your words...You use the word ALLOWS....Please explain what you mean by that then..As I saw it on the Webcast it happend,nobody ALLOWED it to happen....:eek:

[FrontOffice]

I'm going to assume (like you seem to do) that you haven't worked/monitored/been involved with a score's table staff before. If you had, you'd know that a home score clock keeper tends to operate the clock (start the clock early or late depending on the situation) as to help his home team. If you think its hard to run a few tenths off here or there, you're kidding yourself.

Now that we have that established... I stand by my comments that I'm surpised the cavalry score clock keeper didn't start the clock soon enough where a play of that length could have occurred. I am suprised he "allowed" that play to happen. That he didn't jump the gun and start the clock just a tad early negating the play.

As you seem to want to insinuate, it was in no way me indicating that anyone did anything wrong. I stand by my comments that a catch (or tip), a pass, another catch and a shot in 1.4 seconds is amazing. Amazing play and amazing that the ref or clock operator didn't effect it in the least.

You seem to know my intentions in this forum but I couldn't care less who won, or by how much. I commented on officiating that I have witnessed and a play that was improbable. If anyone could make that shot, it's Ronnie Fields.

Expressions are super cool by the way. Big thumbs up to you

[Kev the Cav]

Minot taking it the basket and Lawton/Ft Sill attempting to live from the outside,if Lawton/Ft Sill would have hit some of those outside shots we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Didnot hear a sound when those shots were falling in game one and they won,but when they miss those open looks we have to point blame on someone other than the players.....Refs,Game Clock Operator,Mascot,Ballboys...Pick one I am sure they are the reason the Calvary Lost...

You make some good points Crystal Ball. The Cavs seemed to shoot more outside shots then they usually do. I heard Michael Ray comment on this following some losses earlier this season and it seemed they really attacked the basket the following game. I'm hoping they do tonight.

Turnovers killed the Cavs (which I mentioned in my original assessment of the game). They better learn from those mistakes in a hurry and be careful tonight.

Looking at the stats, what really jumps out is that in Game 2 Brandon Dean only shot 5 times. He was 1-5 with 3 points. He had 0 assists.

Another thing that is hard to believe: (my favorite player) Marvin Phillips had 4 rebounds. After finishing the season with the 2nd most double-doubles and being named defensive player of the year, he's been pretty ineffective in this series. He even took a few of those outside shots which is not the strength of his game. He needs to be in the paint putting that leaping ability to use.

You are right that we didn't discuss the officiating after game one. We probably should have, but the Cavs overcame it. They NEARLY overcame it in game two, so if they just get back to playing like they did in February, it should be a non-factor. I'm looking for a big win tonight!

[Crystal Ball]

Frontoffice Man,
You are talking in circles....Quoting you.."I stand by my comments that I'm surpised the cavalry score clock keeper didn't start the clock soon enough where a play of that length could have occurred. I am suprised he "allowed" that play to happen. That he didn't jump the gun and start the clock just a tad early negating the play.

So you wanted them to cheat...Since you want nobody to read into your non-sense..Please explain "soon enough"....What is that?

Clock is to start after first touch after a throw in or tip...right or wrong?So are you saying he should have started the clock before the Minot player touched the throw-in,thus not "allowing" the play to occur...

Kev,
I think MRR will have the Calvary ready tonight..:mrgreen:

[Cazzzmo]

here's tonights score, we'll save you the trouble of messing with that darn webcast ------------

SkyRockets 99
Cavalry 97

- out

[OKCAVS67]

I will agree that the CAVS had way to many turnovers and missed shots in the game. Doesn't help that they didn't score in the last 4 minutes of the game either. But it doesn't help that the Refs were abit one sided in the game also.

Can't wait for the game to start tonight so we can see who the refs are going to be.

I wasn't at the first game so I can't really comment on how the refs did. I was at the second game sitting on the edge of the upper seats with a birdseye view of under the basket. So when a foul was called I could see if it was a legit one or not. Several times I told my son - good call because they pushed off or got a piece of an arm. But even he, at 16, could tell there were alot of bogus calls.

Just want a fair called game. If it is a foul, then fine call it and if you call a foul on one end of the court then call the same foul on the other end. Not too much to ask.

Why can't they have 3 refs during the Championship games?

[heavesrock]

Why can't they have 3 refs during the Championship games?

Because it would eliminate controversy, make the games more entertaining, and it would make sense.

[OKCAVS67]

Oh, Ok

I understand it all now.....Without controversy who would care about watching the games.....DUH!!!

I love this Place.

[FrontOffice]

I wish I lived in your world, Crystal Ball, where everyone played by the rules and all is fair. Must be a fun, magical place

[Crystal Ball]

And your world is what..one of cheating...You are a tool...:D