The Minor Leagues are MIssing a Grand Opportunity

[hkyfanforlife]

I feel, and after reading this I think you all will too, that in time of this NHL lockout, that the minor leagues (especially the lower ones) should be capitalizing on the market. I know forst hand that when minor league hockey teams aren't in huge city's or in citys where there is a NHL team, they generally (with exceptions) have great followings. The minor league teams in these citys give the town something to do on a weekend, some town pride, rivalries, etc. The problem I feel, is that in the bigger markets, i.e. New York, California, Las Vegas, etc. more should be done to promote the minors during this time. I know that in some of these citys, people don't even know that these teams exist. People get so caught up in the big arenas and tv deal that they don't even realize what they have in front of them. Minor League hockey happens to be a sport where the players are more accessible (look at all the public appearances and school visits). Players are more in touch with the fans through booster clubs, meet and greets, etc. In the NHL unless you are a season ticket holder, good luck meeting a player. And if you do see one outside the arena (and again with exceptions) it is like talking to the President. They couldn't be bothered.. Minor league hockey should be promoted as top notch hockey with a very fan accessible program. When I played, there was nothing better than fans doing stuff for you out of kindness such as giving you apartment supplies, Thanksgiving Dinners,; it makes you more appreciative of where you are. I feel this relationship is lost in the NHL and the minors needs to pushed into the spotlight. It is a shame that except for real hockey enthusiasts, people don't even know there is any minor hockey except for the AHL. Pushing the minors and the way they operate to the public could solely be responsible for bringing in new fans, sponsors, etc. into the sport which is, and it is a shame, still in the shadows of baseball, basketball, and football. If ever there was a chance for the minors to become more than minor, it is now.

[George Waas]

Your points are well taken, but now that we're well into the season, it's important to deal with a subject people find most difficult to talk about--attendance. Right now, in the ECHL, there are several teams in serious trouble. If 3,000 paid attendance is the break-even line (and I'm told this is very conservative), the Long Beach, Wheeling, Louisiana, Texas and Atlantic City (with Dayton on the bubble) look very problematical right now. In the UHL, three teams (Motor City, Port Huron and Missouri) are below 2,000. Danbury, Kalamazoo and Flint are under 3,000. What makes this so problematical is that both Motor City and Danbury are new teams. So far, there's been little showing of strong fan base.

The SPHL prides itself on being a cost-cutting operation, and I hope they're right, because right now, not a single team is above 3,000. Winston-Salem, Huntsville, Macon and Asheville don't appear to be sterling examples of success even under the concept of a leaner operation. Just the other day, Jacksonville-with its 16,000 seat arena--posted an attendance of 980.

So far, it looks as if the only league that's doing reasonably well is the CHL, and it has three teams below the 3,000 line--Topeka (a new team from Indy), Amarillo and San Angelo.

From my experience, it seems that part of the problem is the belief that if teams are put in cities that have demonstrated an inability to support a franchise, somehow someone will succeed. But with more than a quarter of all AA and A level teams struggling to varying degrees, something needs to be done--to save teams and, more important, to save leagues.

[Pounder]

What's the something?

Let me cite something- Portland Winterhawks, very established team in the junior WHL, have had years where they average over 7K per game, have held attendance records a few times (especially when the Rose Garden opened). Portland is too big, and therefore expensive, for the Winterhawks to run an effective TELEVISION advertising campaign (the radio/PR guy states this openly and often), even for a team that doesn't pay salaries (per diem, yes, but not salaries), and travels exclusively by bus. Since nobody under 35 reads newspapers anymore, the internet caters to those who already know what they're looking for, and radio is a very "targeted" set of niches (and becoming more so), what do you do? I should note that Portland is slipping below 5K for attendance this season, but there are some high profile games yet to be played (Seattle always draws when they visit, most highly popular promotions are later in the season). BTW, many fans there will tell you that attendance picks up when high school football shuts down.

The WHL HAS seen an attendance effect. Calgary has a substantial increase. Vancouver has a WHOPPING attendance increase. A handful of other Canadian markets (most notably Saskatoon) have improved, but not nearly all of them... but we are talking about THE hockey fan base.

The real problem is that owners will watch another's failure and say "this happened because the last owner was an idiot- I can do better." Sometimes, the first owner isn't an idiot. Hockey teams are generally born to die. Mounting a massive marketing campaign means burning through your "three-year-plan" funds in a year and a half, even in markets like Boise where it's somewhat affordable, and having NO assurance that it will work.

Part of the problem is, with the drastic change in our viewing and listening habits, increased computer usage, sattelite television outpacing cable (with limited to no local marketing opportunities), and the sheer number of channels out there (and increasing), you have to pay more to reach 66% of the consumers you used to reach with a normal approach, and NOBODY really has a clue as to where to allocate those resources.

Cheers!

[hkyfanforlife]

I agree as well with you mentioned about attendance. IN response I feel that all things are relative. Meaning, if the minors take the direction I have suggested then attendance should, and I use that term lightly, improve dramatically. Now here is another problem that is often mentioned but holds importance. Minor league hockey has been around for a very long time. But it has in the recent years grown, and maybe too fast, but I will touch on that. With the direction of growth it has taken we can see that the minors are in a sense, in a rebuilding process. Now the problem lies here. In a rebuilding process you try to strengthen your product. A short term answer might involve cutting back on the amount of teams in the minors. Not leagues as I feel that it is important that each league keep its territories even though some overlap. It seems with too many teams right now the sport is being diluted and will be hard to grow stronger even with their fan friendly operating system I mentioned in my previous post. I know as a player that the more teams there are the more jobs that are available. But I am afraid it is a catch 22. Because even though there are more jobs with more teams, if the teams fail then the players are out of jobs, and then you have a failed team in a city and is now harder to replace a team in the city. Also, I feel the answer isn’t trying to find the cheapest way to operate because sometimes that causes more heartache. Lets face it, players can’t live on very low salaries. Depending on deals management has set up, teams are able to get free meals at sponsor’s restaurants, play golf for free, go to the movies for free, etc. But again this depends on management’s ability to set up such deals usually in return for ticket compensation. But if you cut costs too low, and the players suffer, well, they are your bread and butter. They have to be happy or they don’t perform. Now obviously players in the minors shouldn’t make millions or even close. But maybe under a new business model they can live a little better (thank God for booster clubs right now).Just food for thought, I am sure we will have more posts on the subject.

[George Waas]

Your throught-provoking comments demonstrate a keen understanding of our sport. There may indeed be too many teams, and the tremendous growth of professional hockey, particularly in the south, may be on the downside of its peak in the late 1990's. Certainly, there are cities that are thriving, or at least succeeding, without any downside on the horizon. I did noat touch on the WHL. or the USHL or NAHL--they are different types of operations, although I note that, according to the statistics compiled by Pointstreak, several of the cities are averaging attendance in the three digits.

I do hope that hockey can survive, particularly in the south where, to many, the sport is still relatively new. If the several cities can build a solid fan base and make their expenses, that's all we can hope for.

[Shootmaster_44]

The WHL HAS seen an attendance effect. Calgary has a substantial increase. Vancouver has a WHOPPING attendance increase. A handful of other Canadian markets (most notably Saskatoon) have improved, but not nearly all of them... but we are talking about THE hockey fan base.


Two points to make about the WHL: First the Blades attendance increase has nothing to do with the NHL lockout. It has everything to do with the miraculous turn around in play of the team. Essentially the Blades are going from worst to first. Saskatoon hockey fans are akin to Montreal Expos fans, if the team is winning they have good attendance, when they lose they don't.

The second point is apparently the NHL lockout is having a bigger effect on junior teams than most people think. The Saskatoon Star-Phoenix ran an article yesterday saying among other things, that the NHL lockout is costing WHL teams the developmental fees paid by NHL teams to WHL teams. These fees are based on the amount of players drafted the previous year, what rounds they are drafted in etc. The article states that the Swift Current Broncos, Prince Albert Raiders and Moose Jaw Warriors will likely finish in the red, regardless of attendance due to the lack of the approximately $50,000-$80,000 the NHL deal brings in. To alievaite this, apparently the WHL is considering advertising on their jerseys, red lines and blue lines. However, the Commissioner says that the ads will be done tastefully, not like the European teams' jerseys.

[glpuck]

i agree there are to many teams and leagues in existence now i have 3 uhl teams within 1 hr. and attendence is not that great at all 3. with nhl lockout in effect and a little bit of promotion maybe attendence can increase port huron and motor city only get about 1000 people per game both teams are not very good though and that may have something to do with it. flint is starting to get better right now they have had over 3000 for 4 or 5 of there last games and they have a pretty good team. i would like to see increases at all minor league venues. i attend between 50-60 games per year around michgan uhl,ahl also echl would hate to lose the opportunity to go to games anywhere!

[George Waas]

The common theme from fans in those cities that are struggling is that there isn't enough marketing and promotion. This is true; however, it's also true that the first item that is cut when a team begins to lose money is the marketing and promotions budget. I have seen this is far too many cities to chalk it up as an anomaly. The old adage is true--to make money, you have to spend money. While there are teams doing well, there are too many teams that are in dire straits right now. Just a look at the numbers tells me that the UHL and SPHL are in the most serious trouble because so many teams are struggling. Neither the teams nor the leagues can survive at the current announced attendance numbers. (There is a difference between paid and announced attendance. The numbers posted are announced attendance; that is, the number of seats actually sold, even at discounted prices, or given away to advertisers, etc. Paid attendance is almost always lower than announced attendance, and bills can't be paid on freebies.

The UHL can't afford to lose three or four teams, but the risk is there. Port Huron has tried for years to field a successful franchise, but it just doesn't look promising right now. Motor City and Danbury are new teams, but don't look like they will make it beyond this year. I hope that things turn around after the start of the year, but all statistics I've seen tell me that by the eighth home game, attendance will not vary by more than 100 or so for the season average.

The new SPHL's numbers are continuing to drop. The complaint is the same--not enough marketing, etc. But these teams can't pay their bills on promises, and cash is hard to come by right now. The arena operators want ironclad agreements to assure that they get their money, and they are, but at what expense?

In the ECHL, right now, it looks like five or six teams could be done after this season. Without a large infusion of marketing money, teams are left to their own devices. Teams with some history may be gone, the latest victims of a lost fan base.

It may be the inevitability of the sport at this level, but the difference now is that the great migration of the sport to the south is in decline and may be over. Yet, the CHL must be doing someting to keep its teams (except for a couple) operating fairly well. Maybe the other leagues should seek out the CHL and find out what it is they are doing, and try it.

One thing is certain--those who have teams with a declining fan base must not do nothing. They need to convince the owners/managers in no uncertain terms that the teams must be marketed and promoted 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Simply saying things will get better when football season is over, when the holidays are over, when basketball is over, etc., etc., excuse after excuse, won't make it so.

The attitude of if we play hockey, the fans will come, is not the way to run a business. And hockey is, like any other enterprise that depends on the consumer dollar, a business.

[patmc16]

The common theme from fans in those cities that are struggling is that there isn't enough marketing and promotion.

The UHL can't afford to lose three or four teams, but the risk is there. Port Huron has tried for years to field a successful franchise, but it just doesn't look promising right now. Motor City and Danbury are new teams, but don't look like they will make it beyond this year. I hope that things turn around after the start of the year, but all statistics I've seen tell me that by the eighth home game, attendance will not vary by more than 100 or so for the season average.

To increase attendance, I think teams have to have their hands around a three headed monster. Marketing, media coverage and actual game performance all need to be there for perople to come through the doors, and keep coming back. I am a Motor City Mechanics season ticket holder. I don't think marketing is their problem at all. It is the other 2 that are killing them. Prior to their first game they advertised on several radio stations in Metro Detroit. They continue to advertise on the top sports radio station and their sister station, a talk station which carries their home (and some road) games. They seem to target their marketing $$, which is probably a good idea. Rather than buying ads in the Detroit News and Free Press, which is expensive and covers a far greater area than the fan base can be expected to be drawn from, they have purchased ads (sometimes full page) in the weekly newspaper that is distributed throughout the suburbs. They get 100% coverage as the paper is free and delivered by the USPS in several different "local" versions to the entire eastern suburbs. Even though "the Garage" was only about half full last night, it was cool to see all of the people who participated in the "teddy bear toss." The promotion was that each fan was to bring a new teddy bear to the game and, when Motor City, scored it's first goal, everyone was to toss them on the ice. They were collected to be donated to the Childrens Hospital downtown. On other nights they have the usual assortment of promotions.

Media coverage is very light. Virtually no TV and a little radio and newspaper. Unfortunately, such is the curse of a minor league franchise in or near a large city. Short of winning the Colonial Cup, I don't see that ever changing for Motor City. The only time the Detroit Vipers got any TV news exposure was when they won the Turner Cup in '97. Even then, it was mainly because it was the first time that the Stanley Cup and the Turner Cup were both won by teams in the same city.

Performance speaks for itself. Being the worst team in the league can't help. We could blame it on being an expansion franchise, it it wasn't for Danbury being the best team in the league. If Danbury is in trouble (I hadn't heard that it was until reading this thread), I just hope we don't have another situation like Columbus last year, where a first place team folds.

[hkyfanforlife]

[To increase attendance, I think teams have to have their hands around a three headed monster. Marketing, media coverage and actual game performance all need to be there for perople to come through the doors, and keep coming back.]

I couldn't agree with this more and it brings me back to one of my original statements. I think it is very important not to reduce the number of leagues because it is important for each league to keep their respective territories which include some overlaps. However it may be temporarily a solution to get rid of the overlaps. Again I state that the problem is dillution. Too many teams means more fans spread out instead of compacting into particular cities. In the end this creates the catch 22 I talked about in my previos posts. (for sake of not repeating myself too much I won't go over it again). Unfortunately for minor hockey, the meeting for the NHL which will probably be the last one this year deciding if there will be any form of shortened season or a total wash is on Thursday. Should the NHL resume, and we all want it to, the cause is lost for the minors to take advantage of the open market. It is a shame that alot of cities don't realize how accessible their minor league players are compared to the NHL players. I mean every day there is a player from the minors at a school, or a hospital doing public appearances. There is also more done for the fan clubs and boosters. The minor league players tend to be more humble and more appreciaitve than their higher counterparts. The problem only seems like it is going to grow again if you know what I mean after I looked at the website we can't talk about, about the league we can't talk about. :? [/quote]

[hkyfanforlife]

I also just wanted to add that I think it is great that the NHL website has done some work to promote the minor leagues this season. Psoting scores and as always having the links to the minor league websites lets people who only follow the NHL know there is something else out there. I have also seen college hockey on tv a hell of a lot more this season which is another move in the right direction. Just more food for thought.

[wncsport.com]

It sure is out of sight, out of mind. espn might not even care about the NHL IF they get a deal with the players now.

All the grassroots won't help hockey if there isn't a serious major league that's stable. The NHL surely doesn't qualify now.

But we can't blame minor league woes on just the NHL.

When there are stories like in the Asheville paper about how inflated the attendance figures are (they don't announce the actual paid attendance, and said on opening night the crowd of around 2,500 was "better than expected"), the potential ticket buyers aren't going to take the team with any credibility. The newspaper had to get the numbers from the Civic Center itself, which by law has to release it when requested. So we now can take the Pointstreak attendance numbers with as much credibility as Barry Bonds. And Pointstreak deserves way better.

Asheville claimed to have raised $200K in corporate sponsorship. Well, where the hell is the real marketing? All I've noticed were a few ads in the local paper and a few radio ads. Maybe to pay off debts in other cities Waronker had a team? Or maybe the number is greatly inflated itself? Whatever it is, they certainly aren't turning around and doing serious marketing.

This is the hockey version of Enron we're seeing here.

Their coach's assertion that the attendance will pick up dramatically after high school football is BS. They had a FULL YEAR TO MARKET THE TEAM!! People are now seeing that these "great" crowds were from freebies. FREEBIES NEVER WORK!! JUST ASK THE NBDL!! BIG MISTAKE OF THEIRS!! At least they have major $$ backing, the SPHL doesn't.

Please, spare me the continual excuses. Hockey in the southeast at this level is a tough enough venture. Even if Asheville had a decent venue, no competition with the NBDL, and a separate practice ice rink it would have been hard.

They knew the Civic Center was in terrible condition, they had to compete with a basketball team (and was given incredibly more favorable scheduling), and no other practice ice rink in the city, or the area (and no, I don't count 2 hour away Greenville).

In most markets, the potential ticket buyers are dealing with credible people. But not all of them.

And let's not get started with Winston-Salem. Complete disgrace attendance wise.

In the meantime...Major League Soccer signed a 10 year, $150 MILLION deal with Adidas and will have their own reserve league. Brilliant on their part. They are expanding slowly and smartly. I hear the long term plan is to get soccer-preferred facilities for all their cities, out of NFL venues, and then play the same schedule as Europe because the players' value will dramatically increase. Maybe soccer will never be as big as basketball, basketball, or football, but it's grassroots is easily the biggest and could replace hockey as the 4th major team sport if the NHL doesn't get it's act together. Without the NHL (or similar league), minor league hockey is going to lose half their teams in short order.

If a team doesn't have the money to spend on real marketing before the season, they won't have it now.

[George Waas]

Your comments are well-taken. I agree that what is being said in Asheville is bunk. It seems to follow a well-known pattern--first getting a team to admit that the posted attendance numbers are inflated, then tell the world (or at least those who may be listening) that things will turn around just as soon as (you may insert any excuse you wish.) It simply doesn't work.

For two years, the movers and shakers in Beaumont worked to put together the ECHL Texas Wildcatters. Their attendance numbers for their first year were borderline; this year, it looks like two and out. Atlantic City won the league championship a couple of years ago, and now is near the bottom in attendance. The new Victoria Salmon Kings were heavily marketed and play in a new state-of-the-art arena. Their opening game attendance--2700.

I think we can only hope that things do in fact turn around, although I would like to know what's being done to turn things around. Either the fan base is there and is being nurtured, or it is not.

I sympathize with what's happening in Motor City. I just don't see MC or Danbury making a go of it. Port Huron has been a losing proposition even before the Beacons. It may be time for the UHL to cut its losses and seek other markets. The UHL is literally being subsidized by Quad City and Ft. Wayne. The league needs other teams to do well.

Now, a question. Does anyone know what's happened to inthecrease? In the last week, each time I've tried to get on, I'm taken to a website design page. Thanks.

[ed1]

The only reason the season opener drew 2700 people was that their new arena was not completed on time to start the season. They played in a rink where a tier 2 junior team plays their home games. The new arena will not be completed until March.

[George Waas]

When I called the Victoria front office, I was told that there would be no merchandise available for this season. If this is so, this would be the first time I've ever experienced not being able to purchase items from a team during its first year. I would like to know whether there is merchandise available for purchase; there is no such indication on the team's website.

I would also be interested in knowing how many season ticketholders there are for the Salmon Kings. I would hope that it's at least 2,000, because it's very difficult for a team in the ECHL to survive with less than 1,500 season ticketholders.

[ed1]

It is on their website on the the right hand corner. It appears they have a whole line of clothing as well as game day programs.

[George Waas]

Thanks,ed1, I'll check, but I am interested in getting a game hockey puck for my collection. Do you know if the team has them yet?

[Pounder]

Danbury plays in a smaller rink than Victoria is forced to right now. I don't know if Danbury is in trouble- the question is whether the promised new arena there is being built.

Victoria probably won't play in the new arena until April, since all the March dates are early in March. They're trying to get the arena ready for the World Curling Championships. My semi-scheduled Victoria trip apparently includes a Bear Mountain visit rather than the new arena.

Central Hockey League gets by with LOW player salaries. Fortunately for them, everyone else is too unstable.

OK, my comments are not going to be taken to heart, but try to grasp the following:

- Most of the owners of minor pro hockey teams are NOT A-list Fortune 500 people.

- Commissioners end up with C-list at best, your Asheville types in the middle, and others whose legend isn't something you want to repeat here (Davidson in El Paso comes to mind). If commissioners don't accept these people, no team.

So, name a bank who gives any of these guys a loan to perform the marketing campaign necessary. They're already undercapitalized, unless the fan base was there in the first place. The "spend money to make money" principle relies on having the money in the first place, and it is just. Not. There. I think the original proposal is simply unrealistic, even though you would think smaller market promotion is far more affordable.

As quirky and only semi-stable as the USHL is, and as absolutely dodgy as the lower American juniors are, it's the future. Salary loads are the biggest expense to a team, after all.

[George Waas]

You're right, Pounder, minor league hockey is a gamble taken by people with some money who believe that they can succeed where others have failed. Yet, when I check attendance on PointStreak (for all leagues), the story is the same--some teams are doing well to average, and others are struggling to varying degrees. But just as a chain is only as strong as its weakest link, so it is that a league with strong teams is weakened by its stuggling franchises.

But what I find fascinating is how these people lie to themselves by fudging attendance numbers, income and costs. I have my own personal stories of teams that appeared to be doing well, but actually were losing the most money.

It all boils down to a simple equation--a team must make more than it spends, and the fact that attendance may be announced at a certain number doesn't mean that number paid the going admission prices. Advertisers expect certain perks, and even players at the lowest level expect to be paid, and on time. Staff must be paid, bills must be paid, and even the league takes a chuck for operating expenses. And running a hockey team is among the most expensive of sports operations. Somewhere along the line, owners and investors expect to not only break even, but begin to realize a profit. And most teams are not profitmakers.

[wncsport.com]

I think Pointstreak has a lot of good qualities, but I'd like to see them post both the paid and actual attendance.

Posting inflated attendance numbers by these teams and boasting about these numbers is close to fraud IMO.

[George Waas]

I agree that it's time for the leagues to accept reality, but they won't and since they pay PointStreak to handle league stats, it simply won't happen. I check the attendance after each night's games, and note that Jacksonville had 683, Victoria had 1,600 + and Kansas City had 1,100 + all announced attendance. These are not survival numbers, and it's a shame because I would think that with Jacksonville's large population base, and the newness of the Salmon Kings and Outlaws, larger fan bases would be easy to establish. Frankly, unless there is a dramatic turnaround in the next month or so, I can see quite a number of teams folding or trying to find more lucrative venues (if any exist). The teams under 3,000 in the ECHL and UHL, and under 2,500 in the UHL and SPHL have to be on the bubble, I would think.

wncsport, as a personal note, I'm tallyshark from inthecrease, but for some reason, I'm not able to log onto this site anymore. Do you know anything about what's going on with inthecrease? Is there a problem with this site? I always enjoy reading your comments. Thanks.

[Pounder]

The explanation for ITC is here: http://www.chl-underground.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1770&i=0&f=1 There's something about being human...

The link to the "alternate" site is http://www.intotheboards.net/forums/index.php?

I think the perception in Victoria is that Bear Mountain is sold out, when it's not actually the case. It probably doesn't help that Bear Mountain is a good distance from downtown. That beats the alternate possibility, which is close to either "I thought they built the new place for a WHL team" or "I'd rather watch a WHL team."

[wncsport.com]

Hey, Tally! Good to hear from you!! :D

Pounder is correct. That board's up now...