View Full Version : CBA/PBL Merger: Still Possible or No?
DazedAndAmused
03-05-2008, 03:47 PM
.....mum seems to be the word on this as of late.
Both seem a little preoccupied with their problem children I suppose.
Anyone have any insight?
I can only speak for me and I'm a little more concerned about the end of the season and the Xplosion, than I am about talk of a merger(tmo).
DazedAndAmused
03-05-2008, 04:00 PM
Sure, that's what you should be concerned with if you're a fan or have some position with a particular team.
But, there are some on this board that are a bit more connected or in the know at the league level who often have good insight.
not so fast
03-05-2008, 05:06 PM
I think serious talks will begin when the season ends. I don't think that the PBL will be that flexible in regards as to changing from what they want to do.
If a merger happens, I think the CBA will have to make more concesions, even though they have the history, the better coaches overall, and better players as a whole. I just think the PBL would rather stay the way they are, than merge and change.
Time will tell.
There are discussions between owners going on right now. They aren't going to announce anything until after the playoff ends. Two people in the know say that the owners don't want to turn into the ABA or back into the ABA.
The 'wigged one' knows what is going on but as usual is trying to spin it like they are fools and he is not.
The 'weak sisters' will be invited to leave. I think that a PBL/CBA merger is the only way to save independent ownership at this level in minor league basketball.
panchess
03-05-2008, 07:24 PM
..clearly the weak sisters on the CBA side are Butte, Great Falls, Atlanta and maybe Pittsburgh.
I don't know the PBL, but would assume Dallas and Jacksonville would be out, and Rochester, Reading, Maryland and Wilmington would be in.
While I can certainly understand the PBL concern, their season is just too short. That is a concept that didn't work, either to establish the teams (the idea was to cut out the early season when it is hard to sell seats anyway) or keep them all running for the season.
rider
03-05-2008, 09:15 PM
I am very confident that Jacksonville will be sold to a very solid investor who also will own a second franchise in the South Florida market. This gentlemen also owns his own arena and is very wealthy. I think it will all come down in roughly a month. If this investor moves forward he will also bring with him a group for Tampa/St. Pete as he lives in Naples!These are all great markets for the investor who has the $ to operate a franchise properly! Can't operate on air , you must have the ability to operate your franchise and support over a five year period. The PBl will be aware of this deal very soon, The PBL has a future!
Panchess, having been to all the X games, I can tell you that the Xplosion can qualify for being one of the stronger franchises in the league. I have seen much better attendence(as proven with our record crowd). They have to promote more, though and I think they will.
PikevilleOT
03-05-2008, 09:37 PM
Panchess, having been to all the X games, I can tell you that the Xplosion can qualify for being one of the stronger franchises in the league. I have seen much better attendence(as proven with our record crowd). They have to promote more, though and I think they will.
IN a game versus the Miners just before/after your record crowd there were barely more X fans than there were Miners fans... You have to agree as I was there and I know... I am not sure what was happening at your record crowd game but from your pics posted the crowd has been sparse at each.. The attendance numbers the X release doesn't scream stability. Sorry but thats just the way it appears by the numbers..
What in your opinion makes the X one of the stronger franchises?
You were there, ot?? SO WAS I!!! I tend to be skeptical about those who say they were at Xplosion games yet I never see them there!
rams80
03-06-2008, 02:31 AM
You were there, ot?? SO WAS I!!! I tend to be skeptical about those who say they were at Xplosion games yet I never see them there!
Did you go meet the East Kentucky fans? Do they know what you look like?
Look...the stated attendance numbers for Pittsburgh put it in the weak sister category under ANY OBJECTIVE analysis.
PikevilleOT
03-06-2008, 07:33 AM
You were there, ot?? SO WAS I!!! I tend to be skeptical about those who say they were at Xplosion games yet I never see them there!
Be skeptical all you want...that is your choice as I didn't go around to the 200-225 Xplosion fans to personally introduce myself... The facts are there was approx 300 fans there actual head count (with 2 school groups included in that amount..one sitting mid court 14-15 year old basketball team and the lower area having a birthday party with another 30+ 11 year olds..)
need more proof I was there? One player on the Miners had over 50 family members in attendance, there was an entire front row full of MIners fans wearing KY and Miners shirts, and there is no denying even from your seat that the Miners fans were far louder in support despite the tough road loss...
I just hope that we dont have to watch the X staff versus the Pirates staff again as I am hoping the X did not falsely advertise a Steelers appearance like what happened with Hines Ward earlier this season.
On a positive the team announcer that also played in the X/Pirates pre-game, is a good announcer. Knox is a very good coach with a talented team.... it is just sad that the team is supported by a consistent bottom 4-5 home attendance despte being a playoff team.
panchess
03-06-2008, 08:04 AM
I did it strictly based on attendance, though the Xplosion seem to have deep-pocketed owners. There are probably PBL teams in the same boat, but I don't follow the PBL.
runninref
03-06-2008, 08:09 AM
1. The PBL has placed an offer on the table to buy the CBA lock, stock, and barrel. It is not the other way around.
2. Weak sisters of the CBA will be replaced with the ABA Northeast teams, except Manchester.
3. Manchester (not Vermont) will become Boston's D-league team.
4. Alex from Vermont will receive a PBL wavier for having a short court and continue working on his book.
5. The PBL showcase wasn't just to showcase players, it was also to showcase Dallas and Jacksonville to perspective owners. They will be playing next season, it is a done deal.
6. Joe Newman will continue to collect 10k per, however once the new PBL gets off the ground the 10k per will come from Asia.
7. The IBL will continue to closely resemble the ABA.
8. The USBL will never return being replaced by the USBA.:D
ot, I'm sure you were there. It just bothered me, in your original post, that you seemed to indicate that I was not! It also bothers me that when posters attend Xplosion games they never stop by to say hi((I'm not saying you have to say hi to everyone), despite my telling you where I would be sitting! I consider it a slap in the face about being ignored when someone visits without the courtesy. Of course, you DON'T care(which bothers me more)!!
Panchess, I don't know the financial status of the X, but I'm sure they do have deep pockets. But what I'm mystified about is why they apparently decided to stop advertising with 2 important home games next week. As I've posted, it may be getting final details from the league(which I don't too much after the X loss last night).
LightningMan
03-06-2008, 08:37 AM
4. Alex from Vermont will receive a PBL wavier for having a short court and continue working on his book.
They have to get that fixed.
FrontOffice
03-06-2008, 08:51 AM
Be a proper host and go introduce yourself
SUNKINGS
03-06-2008, 09:51 AM
You could introduce yourself to everyone by the end of the first qt. What are you saying , that there are more people at the games then stated by the team/league. Lets not go there again.
I don't know who you are?! And the only time I find out we have opposing supporters is after the game starts! Apparently Miners fans are too ashamed to wear their gear when they visit(at least from what I've seen).
FrontOffice
03-06-2008, 10:28 AM
Did you not read OT's post where he said they were wearing Miners stuff??
Maybe you don't go to all the games after all. WARNING: FAKE FAN, FAKE FAN
this reaction should be fun
Suite yourself, FO. I post pictures to prove where I sit so I don't need to prove myself to you or anyone else. I'm not outgoing like others may be. Apparently your afraid to come and find me(for whatever reason). I'm not hard to find! I may be the only one in the upper rows that shouts "GO XPLOSION!!". Any one who passes by me to return to the lobby, I never see anyone wearing 'Miners' stuff. So don't talk to me about being a 'fake'!
FrontOffice
03-06-2008, 10:49 AM
classic psbf
skippy
03-06-2008, 11:14 AM
How could anyone ever doubt that psbf was at the game?
It makes me mad when people talk about the X and don't talk to him about it!
He's the biggest X fan on the board, goes to every game, talks to the front office about how they could get more fans.
I think the Miner's fans are intimidated by him and his dedication. We all know where he sits, go say hello, unless you are frightened !
Go back to EK and dream about the X !
major4_4
03-06-2008, 11:30 AM
Psbf
I love the Miners but I'm not living on every move they make. I think you need let go and get outside for awhile. Maybe pick up a hobby. Basketball will be ending soon for you and then whats left.
SUNKINGS
03-06-2008, 11:49 AM
Thanks everyone for picking up the PBSF action, I have been busy at work lately. Dont forget he still wont reveal the "promotion" the one big crowd they had. Please tell us, I know it had to be beauty , as they have never come close to = that crowd.
FrontOffice
03-06-2008, 12:22 PM
Maybe they tricked them into coming?
SUNKINGS
03-06-2008, 12:27 PM
Maybe they tricked them into coming?
He would gain some credibility if he would reveal it. But I have asked many time, and he never responds. He does respond to everything else.
PikevilleOT
03-06-2008, 12:57 PM
there still isn't anything to b found online verifying the Steelers will actually be in that exhibition on the 11th. I hope this isn't another X promotion that was advertised b4 the details were worked out with unfortunate cancellatioon (ala Hines Ward appreciation).
Regardless the X/Miners game should be great!
DazedAndAmused
03-06-2008, 01:50 PM
Maybe they tricked them into coming?
...maybe Hannah Montana was scheduled to show.
Talk about not seeing a post? The Steelers never mentioned about Ward being honored at that game, nor did they mention(on their site) about last season's doubleheader with our tv media. So why does it surprise you that our grid iron team does not mention the upcoming doubleheader? Unless you are only asking for the sake of posting something! Yeah, that must be it.
But I do agree that it should be a great game. Hopefully the Xplosion will come out better than they did last night, though.
I'm almost tempted to root for the Miners tonight so we can beat you in the show down. If you lose tonight, I'm fearfull that you will take it out on us again.
wellington
03-06-2008, 06:03 PM
Basketball will be ending soon for you and then whats left.
http://www.riverhounds.com/images/news/1202960060.jpg
Don't worry PSBF has something lined up for the offseason: Pittsburgh Riverhounds (http://www.riverhounds.com/)
FrontOffice
03-06-2008, 06:14 PM
Fantastic... at least the Xplosion won't be the last sports option in Pitt now.
Steelers
Penguins
U Pitt
Pirates
Xplosion
Riverhounds
SUNKINGS
03-06-2008, 06:30 PM
Dont talk about the Riverhounds unless you have gone to all the games. If they would just promote more. I have contacted the team numerous times they are planning a doubleheader with the Penguins all the players will be there except Sid Crosby and Franco harris.
skippy
03-06-2008, 07:14 PM
Quit picking on psbf !
He is the fan for the Pittsburgh Xplosion and don't make him angry, he would pay ANY amount for Xplosion tickets. If you can't say that about the Sunkings you are just jealous.
He doesn't even like the Riverhounds !
After the season he will be the number one fan for the Pittsburgh Passion the NWFA 2007 champs !
The one game playoff will prove who rules the CBA and this message board for one year.
Pounder
03-07-2008, 11:26 AM
I believe psbf was originally on the USL Discussions board discussing the Riverhounds and antagonizing people there as well.
The previous incarnation of the Hounds had crowds the X would die for... check that, maim? Burn, destroy, wreck, and kill?
Too bad they're stuck playing at high schools.
Yes I was, Pounder, and I found it strange that posters there were entitled to their opinion yet when I posted mine I got critisized. I was starting to see the same here. These forums are for everyone to discuss and agree or debate.
I still post in USL on occasion, but I got sick(literally) with what I had to put up with. I don't like being singled out, I want to be treated fairly that is all I ask. Think of how anyone would feel if it was you!
of a merger, does it seem odd to anyone that the PBL began late, but now announces their playoff format just after the CBA announced theirs?
DazedAndAmused
03-07-2008, 01:03 PM
i don't really find anything odd about it. playoffs for both of these leagues start in short order, and they obviously hadn't set the plans in stone earlier, so if they were going to have them, they needed to be announced soon, and one had to announce first. what's odd about it?
Pounder
03-07-2008, 01:57 PM
Yes I was, Pounder, and I found it strange that posters there were entitled to their opinion yet when I posted mine I got critisized. I was starting to see the same here. These forums are for everyone to discuss and agree or debate.
I still post in USL on occasion, but I got sick(literally) with what I had to put up with. I don't like being singled out, I want to be treated fairly that is all I ask. Think of how anyone would feel if it was you!
Then a couple pieces of advice for you:
Don't tell me that I didn't see what I saw.
Don't be the guy who believes advertising. (Think of that statement as philosophical as it is practical- I try not to make press releases my first source of information for a reason.)
DandA, maybe odd was not the right word. I guess I meant interesting. Even being the PBL first season I would think it would last a little longer.
Pounder, I'm not going to discuss that here, please pm me with anything.
DazedAndAmused
03-07-2008, 06:58 PM
DandA, maybe odd was not the right word. I guess I meant interesting. Even being the PBL first season I would think it would last a little longer.
I'm not sure I follow. What would you think would last longer? Their 20 game season is almost done, and given their emphasis on fewer games, I expected a single elimination type of tournatment.
Nubb16
03-07-2008, 11:18 PM
Few questions here...
If the CBA/PBL Merge does happen, what will the league be called and I don't know how the PBL does their standings so will it still be done with Quarter Points?
I agree that a single elimination is good for the PBL. But they are the only league that I know that has only played a 3 month schedule. That is what I find strange. A schedule is usually 6 or 7 months.
Few questions here...
If the CBA/PBL Merge does happen, what will the league be called and I don't know how the PBL does their standings so will it still be done with Quarter Points?
Still to be worked out. Don't be surprised if there is a totrally new name.
What is important is a workable financial program. Costs have to be reasonable or Doyle will have more than 3 franchises failing next season.
These teams need to set up marketing and sales operations. I have been talking to a new team owner recently. Here is a guy who has money and has run businesses but he is clueless about running a professional sports franchise. He is figuring it out but you can't believe the questions he asks me.
If his new team's media knew about it, they would be wondering if the team will make it. He now has a business plan and if he properly funds it, he'll do OK. This city has has enough problems of late and doesn't need another fool/tool ruining that market!
not so fast
03-08-2008, 07:14 AM
the IBL Season is basically 3 months, the usbl season was basically 3 months as well. I think the WBA season was 2 months last time they played.
panchess
03-08-2008, 10:41 AM
..one reason the D-League is more expensive is the extra five weeks or so in the season to more closely mirror the NBA season.
rams80
03-08-2008, 01:25 PM
I agree that a single elimination is good for the PBL. But they are the only league that I know that has only played a 3 month schedule. That is what I find strange. A schedule is usually 6 or 7 months.
They had the season schedule the way they did, because it gave them a better chance of having all their ducks in a row before starting.
Pounder
03-10-2008, 10:33 AM
Still to be worked out. Don't be surprised if there is a totrally new name.
What is important is a workable financial program. Costs have to be reasonable or Doyle will have more than 3 franchises failing next season.
These teams need to set up marketing and sales operations. I have been talking to a new team owner recently. Here is a guy who has money and has run businesses but he is clueless about running a professional sports franchise. He is figuring it out but you can't believe the questions he asks me.
If his new team's media knew about it, they would be wondering if the team will make it. He now has a business plan and if he properly funds it, he'll do OK. This city has has enough problems of late and doesn't need another fool/tool ruining that market!
Just thinking out loud. Please slam with care if necessary...
Do you get the sense that there aren't any GOOD owners out there giving 100% disclosure of their best practices? Reason: they want to win ball games, so make sure the new owner has "enough money," but doesn't necessarily help when perhaps it should be done?
Of course, there's also the possibility that a new owner doesn't trust the other owners. There's the possibility that this owner thinks "it worked in that town, but my town isn't that town."
How does a commissioner foster trust between owners? That's probably worthy of its own discussion.
bballnut
03-10-2008, 11:22 AM
Runninref,
I like your breakdowns of the leagues. I agree, except for maybe the IBL. They have a great concept money wise, and cluster wise. The Commis needs to concentrate on the business side, and get out of the ownership business. It could also be a conflict with him being an owner. The talent in this league is better, and there are some solid teams. However, with teams like Gary in the IBL you will have to keep up with them. With the league fees being so small, they can spend more money on players. I am not sure most IBL teams will be able to compete with Gary.
DazedAndAmused
03-10-2008, 02:51 PM
psbf, problem is that minor league ball has not proven it can make a six month season viable from a business perspective.
That's true, DandA. I was not aware about other leagues having short seasons.
Paul S
03-10-2008, 08:10 PM
I believe psbf was originally on the USL Discussions board discussing the Riverhounds and antagonizing people there as well.
The previous incarnation of the Hounds had crowds the X would die for... check that, maim? Burn, destroy, wreck, and kill?
Too bad they're stuck playing at high schools.
ooohhhhhhh yaaaaa, he did the same thing on Bigsoccer now that I think about it. I bounce between the three boards and have three different screen names, Paul S, Contikipaul and the shelts. PSBF was on about the USL and would get really .................... well its the same as here. Man Pounder, you've got a good memory.
Pounder and Paul S., if you have a beef with me, send me a PM. Otherwise,stick to the topic.
PikevilleOT
03-11-2008, 08:47 AM
ease up on psbf, it's not easy being right all the time....
Frank Mart
05-06-2008, 08:01 AM
Hi I am Frank Mart (Francisco Martín in spanish) from Spain and I'm very interested in the rumors of CBA/PBL merger. Which are the last news in the matter?
I know ABA's canadian franquises (Quebec, Halifax and Montreal) could join Northeast Division in CBA/PBL/or new league. Vermont and Manchester will join CBA.
I know PBL announced expansion teams in Toronto and Buffalo for next season, CBA/PBL Merger: Still Possible or No?
Thanks from Spain
solobasket.com
bkball.net
ot, I never claimed to be right all the time(even if that is meant to be a joke). You Miners fans had always been supportive of the X, although we are rivals, so it surprises me how you change. I should add that the Xplosion had a booth at the Lifexpo event this weekend at Heinz Field that I visited on Sun. I learned that tickets go on sale later this summer, so save your sarcasm for teams that deserve it(you and others).
Frank, welcome! In answer, yes it is still possible for a merger, but as time passes without word it is appearing less likely. Teams may be leaving to join the PBL though, which could be the case.
FrontOffice
05-06-2008, 10:58 AM
I really believe that the X will be back next year, regardless of attendance/arena issues. It remains to be seen whether that will be in the CBA, PBL or wherever. And I don't think it really even matters to the Pitt front office because one way or another they'll be playing.
It does not matter to me what league we are in, but, yes we will be back. I'm looking forward to it.
As far as this league, Yakima is the big question, as to whether the potential new interests become owners of the Sun Kings, or not. The other concern, of course, are the Montana teams and Atlanta. Unless something happens to bring them back or replacements are found, the league will be down to 6 teams(7 if Yakima returns).
FrontOffice
05-06-2008, 01:51 PM
Besides the All-Star game, what reasons do you have for wanting to be in one league or another? You stayed with them through the transition from the ABA to the CBA, what would be the big deal if they went to the PBL (not saying it will happen)?
you missed the part where I said that I don't care what league we play in.
FrontOffice
05-06-2008, 03:01 PM
I did miss, I thought you said it DID matter. My bad
Pounder
05-07-2008, 05:35 PM
A league that believes it MUST stop the bleeding would have folded by now... presuming available intelligence in the front office.
Two leagues with some intelligence seeking to merge (assuming an easy path, which is anything but a good assumption here) would have merged by now.
(The earlier one acts, the more costs are avoided... that's why the above hold true IMO.)
So if these people are smart, they're getting ready for 08-09 and a season will exist. The problem is that I can't help but believe there's a lot of desperation around the CBA, since decisions in Montana need to be made right now. RIGHT NOW. Fish or cut bait.
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