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DazedAndAmused
03-04-2008, 03:37 PM
I haven't done the full count, but my rough estimate indicates that East teams have chalked up alot of wins against the West.

Even lowly Maryland (last in the East) is up big on Quad Cities (top in the West) in the showcase...which made me notice the trend.

Is the East that much stronger?

DazedAndAmused
03-04-2008, 03:55 PM
i think by rough count it is East 12, West 4

not so fast
03-04-2008, 06:08 PM
East is definitely stronger. Maryland played a great game and defeated Quad cities. They were bigger and played more physical, and Quad cities did not handle that well.

But, Quad cities did defeat Reading twice this season, one win right after Reading defeated Rochester. But clearly the east is stronger.

Quad cities was without one of there bigs, and against the east, they cant afford that.

But give Maryland credit. They were very good from the second quarter on!

DazedAndAmused
03-04-2008, 06:31 PM
I think Quad Cities has 3 of the wins vs the East. But, watching the Dallas-Wilmington game now.....Dallas may win it. Wilmington hasn't recovered from loss of Cedric McGinnis. They should have worked harder to keep him.

LightningMan
03-04-2008, 07:06 PM
Dallas may win it. Wilmington hasn't recovered from loss of Cedric McGinnis. They should have worked harder to keep him.
From reports, he physically assaulted the coach. I think that cutting him was the right call, even if it does torpedo your season.

DazedAndAmused
03-05-2008, 08:38 AM
What reports? From whom? I heard a different story.

Egos have brought down many a man.

preeths
03-05-2008, 10:19 AM
I heard the physical confrontation with the coach story, too.

blowzwisle
03-05-2008, 10:51 AM
From my source, an actual player on the SeaDawgs, it wasn't so much of an actual physical assault as it was an attempted confrontation. Cedric went after the coach and was subsequently released. Events leading up to this included the coach berating players and as childish as this sounds, calling them names. While that is no excuse for any player to go after a coach, I think it's appropriate to understand that the coach is not without guilt in the situation either.

Wilmington's fans, players, and even the owners love Cedric and I wouldn't be surprised to see him back in the Port City somewhere down the line.

DazedAndAmused
03-05-2008, 12:51 PM
From my source, an actual player on the SeaDawgs, it wasn't so much of an actual physical assault as it was an attempted confrontation. Cedric went after the coach and was subsequently released. Events leading up to this included the coach berating players and as childish as this sounds, calling them names. While that is no excuse for any player to go after a coach, I think it's appropriate to understand that the coach is not without guilt in the situation either.

Wilmington's fans, players, and even the owners love Cedric and I wouldn't be surprised to see him back in the Port City somewhere down the line.

This I believe is fairly accurate. If the owners and coaches were truly committed to winning a PBL championship, this would have been worked out and McGinnis would still be on the team. They would be 15-2 instead of 10-7. As I say.....egos of men.........

LightningMan
03-05-2008, 01:46 PM
If the owners and coaches were truly committed to winning a PBL championship, this would have been worked out and McGinnis would still be on the team.
I liked Cedric and thought he was a very good player, but if you let him stay after that then you completely undermine the coach. I don't care if the coach "deserved" going after or not, if Cedric had kept his cool he would still be on the team. I believe ownership and management is committed to winning a PBL championship. I don't believe you have to let the players run the show in order to do that.

DazedAndAmused
03-05-2008, 02:35 PM
Lightningman, in a world absent of grey your logic makes sense, but you assume coaches are always right and acting in the best interests of the team. I would contend that isn't always the case (without commentary on this particular situation) and that at times it is appropriate for team leaders to challenge authority in the interests of bettering the team.

Now, where you draw the line with such challenges is certainly an issue. Point is though, in pro ball, star players have influence over who the coaches are, as well as the coaching style. They don't always agree, and the coaches don't always win.

We really can't debate this (so I'll stop after this post) because all of the facts have not been disclosed. The only real info on this has come from a player or two that have described what they witnessed and experienced. That info strongly suggests that the owners made the WRONG decision about CM. It wasn't about players running the show. But, owners sometimes make seemingly wrong decisions for reasons not disclosed to us hacks.

In the end, the proof is in the pudding, wins and losses. Since CM's release, this team has a terrible record, even losing to the depleted Jax and Dallas teams. (Yes, there were a few other significant injuries at play here, but those watching the PBL closely will point to CM as the key.) They are limping into the playoffs, riding their early start.

My opinions don't count here anyway, but I just think it is a shame because the early Wilmington team may have been the best team in all of minor league ball. Now...not so much.

LightningMan
03-05-2008, 03:33 PM
Lightningman, in a world absent of grey your logic makes sense, but you assume coaches are always right and acting in the best interests of the team.
Nope, Dazed. I don't. I am not saying the coach is always right or even right in this instance. I am saying that if you side with the player then the coach can no longer do his job whether or not he deserves to. Once it happened, one of them had to go. In my opinion, they made the correct choice, but that's my opinion.

I would contend that isn't always the case (without commentary on this particular situation) and that at times it is appropriate for team leaders to challenge authority in the interests of bettering the team.
Challenging authority and challenging authority to a fist fight are two different things.

Now, where you draw the line with such challenges is certainly an issue. Point is though, in pro ball, star players have influence over who the coaches are, as well as the coaching style. They don't always agree, and the coaches don't always win.
Yep. Just ask Paul Silas.

[snip]That info strongly suggests that the owners made the WRONG decision about CM.

[snip]

...but I just think it is a shame because the early Wilmington team may have been the best team in all of minor league ball. Now...not so much.
How do you think I feel? It's my team (in terms of locale) after all. But as much as I want them to win and hoped they might have won the league in the first year, I simply cannot agree with you that keeping a player who wanted to fist fight the coach is the right call.

I wish Cedric well and if the coach moves on, I wouldn't be surprised to see him back. But I'm not a Lombardiist. Winning isn't the only thing.

DazedAndAmused
03-05-2008, 04:15 PM
Challenging authority and challenging authority to a fist fight are two different things. Agreed, but I'm not sure that this simple characterization is in fact what occurred in Wilmington. If it was, I'm with you 100%.

I simply cannot agree with you that keeping a player who wanted to fist fight the coach is the right call. I don't believe I said that. If it were that simple and the implied facts were true, I'd agree with you again. IBut, don't think the inside info supports it and in fact suggests there is much more to the story that we may not know.

Ultimately you are right in that one guy probably did have to go. If winning is the barometer, the wrong guy went. If team chemistry is the barometer, the wrong guy went. If team morale is the barometer, the wrong guy went. I'm not sure what's left beyond the "off the court" business that seems to be being handled well by others in the organization.

I'll need to see the videotape to change my mind. Your sources certainly could be more connected than mine.

We definitely can agree that we are both fans of Wilmington, and the whole thing is a shame. There's always next year.

Don't under estimate winning in minor league ball. (Please feel free to take the last word.....it's yours for the taking.) I'll move on to other subjects.