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a1sports
03-03-2008, 08:38 AM
WIth the PBL showcase Starting today in Chicago, I am happy to report that there will be not one but 2 moles there lstening and watching. Reports to be posted when I can the calls.

The_Whale
03-03-2008, 09:23 AM
We're all ears....

DazedAndAmused
03-03-2008, 11:07 AM
aren't all the games on the internet any way?

what's a mole gonna get out of it?

Pounder
03-03-2008, 12:01 PM
I can tell you, having been to the D-League Showcase this year, that you can drop in on a lot of interesting conversations. Of course, a lot of those are among NBA people you won't see at this showcase. However, there's also interaction among players, perhaps a few media, certainly OWNERS... it really is a good place for a mole.

BBallBoy
03-03-2008, 02:49 PM
This "Showcase" was hastily put together after Jacksonville and Dallas folded and the Arkansas owner did not pay the players or the arena. This event was NEVER listed on any schedule. So instead of canceling the games, the league found volunteer players (sans perhaps a little meal money) for Jacksonville and Dallas, and brought everybody to Chicago which is much cheaper than trying to stage the games in seperate venues in Jacksonville, Dallas, and Little Rock. The PBL has played these "games" but the league has become a joke. Aborted schedules, volunteer players and coaches and local arenas locked (Jacksonville, Dallas, Arkansas) because they were not paid for (yes, by this self proclaimed "well funded" group). This has become a "Showcase" for a poorly run league with a few owners willing to pay the tab for the entire "league" instead of admitting the truth. This "Showcase" is a cover up.

bdaly
03-03-2008, 03:18 PM
That might be a little harsh. I just compared Jacksonville's lineup to their opening day lineup, and I noticed six of eight guys that played yesterday were on the opening day lineup. Not ideal, but that's not terrible. Might have this been convenient given the issues with a couple of the teams? Yes. But, it's not a bad concept, and it's one that has the potential to benefit the players.

At the end of the day, every PBL team will complete their full schedule. Despite the changes, Jacksonville and Dallas remain competitive which is beneficial to fans in the other cities. These teams aren't bringing five guys, canceling games, or losing by 50. Despite the hiccups, given the issues in the two other winter independent leagues, the PBL season looks most successful.

With that foundation built, it's only going to be easier to find investors and replace the weak links. Given minor league basketball's track record, anyone thinking it would be easy in year one for a startup was naive (despite any marketing buzz). But now they can build.

LightningMan
03-03-2008, 03:28 PM
Arkansas? I have never heard any rumors about Arkansas, or problems either. Anyone other than BBallBoy have some scoop here?

DazedAndAmused
03-03-2008, 03:32 PM
Bballboooy, I disagree totally. You miss the little and big picture.

While the circumstances were less than optimal re: Jax and Dallas in particular, the showcase was a great solution (that killed multiple birds) and turned lemons into lemonade.

There are solid minor league players on these rosters, and if you look carefully you will see some key recent signings for high caliber players who want the extra exposure of the showcase.

In other leagues, these games (jax, dallas) would simply have been cancelled (which pathetically has become the paradigm in minor league bball.

I don't think that there was any secret that this was assembled a month ago.

Getting 12 regular season games played at the showcase is a good thing. Only someone who has vested interest in the status quo could possibly think otherwise.

Again, this was lemons to lemonade...something other leagues can't seem to do.

tbayz1
03-03-2008, 04:10 PM
It stinks that the Showcase games aren't free like the SeaDawg games, I was looking foward to seeing some games, but Im not paying, Im too cheap :)

BBallBoy
03-03-2008, 04:10 PM
What "recent signing of high level minor league players"? Please name one. There are not any. The decent players quit when they were not paid and went to the D League or overseas and were replaced by rec players. I did check carefully and only five of the original 12 Jacksonville players are left (the coach also quit) and Dallas HAS ONE player left. There, I also carefully checked, and three of their players went to the D league and two signed large foreign contracts (Eurobasket), so obviously they had an excellent team that apparently did not like playing for free. As far as this the comment about being organized in advance, that is correct, it was organized and posted on the league web site when Jacksonville folded and Dallas went under, about three weeks ago.

preeths
03-03-2008, 05:22 PM
Dallas has not gone under. It's the same organization.

not so fast
03-03-2008, 05:56 PM
Bballboy you sound a little bitter. I was at the showcase and it is pretty good talent. And far as I know, all the coaches are being paid. If you compare the PBL to other leagues, notwithstanding the d-league, for a first year league, its doing okay. Its not perfect, but if things improve next year, and its every reason to believe it will, its going to be a much stronger league.

I talked to the President of the league, and he is totally committed to making this league a success. And however way you want to characterize it, if all the games are played, that is huge.

All good things take time, and a professional basketball league is no different. With all due respect to the CBA, and I know Denny Truax, and he is an outstanding person, the CBA has had challenges this season and look how long they have been around.

How many years have the new ABA been running, and look at the state of that league.

The IBL has been comparably stable, but they have had their challenges as well.

So lighten up, enjoy the games. One thing about the people I have met involved with the PBL, they have no ax to grind, they don't bad mouth other leagues. They just seem to want to run their own league their own way.

BBallBoy
03-03-2008, 06:21 PM
Not bitter at all. In fact, the team I follow, QC, has seemingly paid their players and coaches since most of them are still here. But undeniably the talent in the league has dropped and was much more enjoyable to follow when it was a real league. It is also a fact that the players and coaches of Jacksonville and Dallas were not paid and most left. The franchises are not even close to what they were when they started, everybody left, simply look at box scores and rosters. QC has stayed remarkably stable and probably is the second best team left in this "league" and should reach the finals against Rochester, the only other real team left in this league.

preeths
03-03-2008, 06:35 PM
I think everyone realizes that the talent in Jacksonville and Dallas has dropped, but you haven't proven your contention that the talent in the rest of the league has as well. Show me a roster in minor league basketball that hasn't changed since the beginning of the year. It's the nature of the beast.

DazedAndAmused
03-03-2008, 06:35 PM
What "recent signing of high level minor league players"? Please name one. There are not any.

Well, I see that Byron Mouton is now on the roster for Wilmington from the stats from the Rockford game this past weekend. (Check the PBL site.) That's a high level minor league player looking for some increased exposure. That's just one example, but I am told there are others.

I haven't looked closely at Dallas or Jax rosters. But, I understand a significant number of Jax players stayed. Some Dallas players left before the league even stepped in. I think that you'll have a hard time making a case that what the league is doing with Jax, Dallas, and the Showcase in anything but a good move from a minor league. In fact, it is an outstanding move.

I don't really follow your logic here. Is either team as stocked as they once were? Heck, no. Who says they are? Some of their decent players bailed when they weren't getting paid before the league stepped in.

DazedAndAmused
03-03-2008, 06:37 PM
QC has stayed remarkably stable and probably is the second best team left in this "league" and should reach the finals against Rochester, the only other real team left in this league.

....I really don't see any basis. Just sounds a little like sour grapes. Sorry dude.

tops804
03-03-2008, 06:54 PM
Based on the unbalanced ABA standings, and the fact that the CBA's Explorers
went under and Krunk games were cancelled. I think it would be pretty impressive
if the PBL can pull off a 100% games played schedule for a change.

It is a positive start.

tbayz1
03-03-2008, 10:06 PM
Bballboy you sound a little bitter. I was at the showcase and it is pretty good talent. And far as I know, all the coaches are being paid. If you compare the PBL to other leagues, notwithstanding the d-league, for a first year league, its doing okay. Its not perfect, but if things improve next year, and its every reason to believe it will, its going to be a much stronger league.

I talked to the President of the league, and he is totally committed to making this league a success. And however way you want to characterize it, if all the games are played, that is huge.

All good things take time, and a professional basketball league is no different. With all due respect to the CBA, and I know Denny Truax, and he is an outstanding person, the CBA has had challenges this season and look how long they have been around.

How many years have the new ABA been running, and look at the state of that league.

The IBL has been comparably stable, but they have had their challenges as well.

So lighten up, enjoy the games. One thing about the people I have met involved with the PBL, they have no ax to grind, they don't bad mouth other leagues. They just seem to want to run their own league their own way.



Which games did you see?
Was there a decent amount of scouts in attendence?

I didn't want to pay to see the games so I'm a bit curious

LightningMan
03-04-2008, 07:06 AM
I think it would be pretty impressive if the PBL can pull off a 100% games played schedule for a change.
Technically they won't, even if they make up the two travel related postponements, because of that forfeit of Dallas to Wilmington. But even then, playing every game but one would be something.

DazedAndAmused
03-04-2008, 09:10 AM
Technically they won't, even if they make up the two travel related postponements, because of that forfeit of Dallas to Wilmington. But even then, playing every game but one would be something.

Yes, but a league game that counts in the player stats was played that night, even though Wilmington did get the technical win before it started. So, 100 league games will still be played. I'd still call that 100%, perhaps with an asterisks.

utahstarsticketholder
03-04-2008, 07:28 PM
One thing to remember. The PBL has to convince that they are legitimate because of the harm the "ABA" has caused to minor league basketball. It is a large hurtle because any league will have to prove it not just a semi pro 10K scam. This will be the legacy of the "ABA" no matter how many films or books are written.
Congratulation to the PBL for doing it right by the fans, players and coaches. jack

Alumni96
03-04-2008, 08:20 PM
a showcase why charge people to watch? Wouldn't it make more sense to make it a free webcast to show potential fans your product?

LightningMan
03-04-2008, 10:47 PM
[If it's supposed to be] a showcase why charge people to watch? Wouldn't it make more sense to make it a free webcast to show potential fans your product?
That all depends to whom you're showcasing the product. This showcase was not done for fans. There is no way that is the intended audience with games at 11AM. It is either for scouts or for potential owners. It's the only way the showcase makes sense.

preeths
03-05-2008, 10:45 AM
Good point, LightningMan, this was done for the players, to give scouts a shot at seeing them all in one place. I've been told at least five NBA scouts have been in attendance and that a player from the Dallas Defenders was signed to a Venezuelan contract right after their first game Monday.

BTW, I've been disappointed with the two moles.

DazedAndAmused
03-05-2008, 01:43 PM
The Showcase was definitely a smart move and by all accounts it has achieved its goals.

To Alumni96's point though, I believe I would have made these free as well but only for the reason that they were low bitrate streams, presumably due to limitations at the Attack center. The audio was fine, but the video left something to be desired. Other PBL streams were much higher video quality. The announcers have been top notch though.

But, keeping them pay per view may have achieved one thing though..that is it kept more of the "moles" out, who likely couldn't afford the $6!

BBallBoy
03-06-2008, 02:01 PM
The Rochester Democrat and Chronicle is reporting today that the Rochester game at Arkansas scheduled for March 14 in Arkansas has been moved to Chicago and set for Friday. I was at the Showcase (Coverup) Wednesday to watch my Riverhawks, and heard the Arkansas GM (?) say the owner has quit paying the arena and fallen behind with the players, hence several Impact players have left. The league is stepping in, just as they did with Jax and Dallas, and has moved the last four games scheduled to be played in Arkansas to Chicago (which is what they have done with Jax and Dallas). The league should have actually used our Wharton Fieldhouse which is truly a teasure............

not so fast
03-06-2008, 03:21 PM
Well better the game is in Chicago than no game at all. The league is doing a good job keeping the games being played.

As I have said in previous post, the goal to have every game played is really great.

I coached in the IBL a couple of years ago, and we were cancelling games, rescheduling games, constantly. We all know about the ABA. And the CBA has been around along time, and they are cancelling games this season.

Minorleague basketball is not easy. Running leagues are not easy, but with each year it should get better, hopefully.

Quad Cities needs to get guys healthy, because Rockford is playing a lot better lately. And they play Friday in Quad Cities.

And I will say again, Todd Day has done a great job coaching, but Quad Cities coach Latroy Farrow should be coach of the year in the PBL.

Obviously Rod baker is a solid coach, but he has had the advantage of being with the organization, a much longer time. Todd Day and Latroy Farrow had late starts in terms of hiring, and look what they have done.

Note: Latroy Farrow played college ball for CBA all star coach Chris Daleo, and was his assistant at one time a few years ago.

bailey1
03-09-2008, 05:09 PM
the Arkansas owner did not pay the players or the arena.

And I guess you know this how?

I know for a FACT that the Arkansas players were paid.
I know for a Fact Barton (Arkansas arena) didn't lock doors because of not being paid.

So before you post info like this. Make sure its true!!

I've read a few post you've made and I'm sorry your unhappy. I hope things get better for you.

Ohhhh now I see why your unhappy.
From another post on this board.

I made some calls............
2. BBALLBOY is coach Davisson, formerly of Dallas who is bitter. He was fired from Dallas. IP address is Cedar Rapids where he lives. SHAME ON YOU to pretend your a Quad city fan in order to spread lies.
It was easy to track down BBALLBOY and find out it was you...took a whopping 3 phone calls.

Dont forget, my rolodex is L O N G and I have pages of notes and can cross reference many things