GREAT FALLS EXPLORERS go under

[Aaronhere]

ALBANY, NY (February 25, 2008) The Continental Basketball Association today announced that the Great Falls Explorers will cease operations effective today, Monday, February 25. The member teams of the CBA will not make up the remaining home games in Great Falls.

"This is an unfortunate turn of events for the Great Falls Explorers and the CBA as a whole," said Explorers CEO Michael Tuckman. "Due to our ongoing arena issues, I just felt it was in the best interests for myself and the CBA to suspend operations for the remaining portion of the season. I knew when I took the helm in November it would be mission difficult but with the arena issues at Four Seasons, it has just turned into mission impossible. If the arena issues are dealt with in a manner that it makes fiscal sense to return to Great Falls, I would come back immediately."

"While it is regrettable that Michael and the Explorers have to suspend operations, it is understandable," said CBA Deputy Commissioner Dennis Truax. "The ongoing lease issues between Michael and the Four Seasons Arena have made it difficult to operate. We commend Michael on all of his hard work this season and we will work diligently to help him solve this arena issue so he can return to Great Falls. We feel the Great Falls market can and will sustain a CBA franchise."

Regrettable? Maybe
Understandable? Maybe he should have read the lease before buying
Return to Great Falls? Not with the bridges that have been burned

[jjbballfan]

The Tuckman still own the franchise or with him seizing operations does he forfeit his ownership of the franchise?

[TheStandard]

Marlyn Bryant has been signed by the Caguas Criollos (Creoles) of the BSN in Puerto Rico. Marlyn will be earning 2000 per week plus per diem, home, auto and travel for immediate family for specific events.

Tuckman gets no money out of this as his team has folded, CBA to fill out transfer papers and then to USA Basketball then USA Basketball to FIBA Americas and FIBA Americas to the League, team and FIBA worldwide.

[Sam Hill]

Regrettable? Maybe
Understandable? Maybe he should have read the lease before buying
Return to Great Falls? Not with the bridges that have been burned

Already being discussed in another thread (http://www.oursportscentral.com/boards/showthread.php?t=10499)? Yeah.

[panchess]

..but could a new Great Falls team emerge with local ownership? Stranger things have happened.

[Aaronhere]

Already being discussed in another thread (http://www.oursportscentral.com/boards/showthread.php?t=10499)? Yeah.

Sorry you fell this is duplication. I just thought the other thread was getting long and fractured. My apologies.

[jbirdmontana]

Of course Tuckman would get no money from Marlyn signing in Puerto Rico, because he never signed a contract with Tuckman in the first place. And how do you know how much he is making, I am a good friend of his and talk to him almost daily and as of yesterday he still didn't know how much he would be making, he just said it was a hell of alot more than Great Falls was paying, which was 0 dollars a week for the past 3 weeks.

[TheStandard]

BSN league wire to all owners. Also we know by the tier he is in for foreign players.

Tier 1.

5000 to 10k per week avg

Tier 2

2001 to 5000 (main average here is 2500)

Tier 3
1000 to 2000

If hes tier 2 at 2k per week he would then have to get many more perks such as daily per diem vs only road game per diem, a better car(You would be amazed at what guys drive in this league as company cars or enterprise cars) (My team supplies Magnums, Chargers and Maximas)

He will either stay at a house with another player or have his own place either way FOOD is paid for by most teams.

Oh he will be fine. One of the owners is a legit millionaire through the music industry and the other two guys are big time architects also millionaires.

He surely will be listening to a lot of Daddy Yankee during warm ups lol

He was listed as tier 2. I will have more details once the contract is officially cleared by the league and FIBA

[psbf]

the online GFT which held the article 'Explorers finally fold'. In it, Tuckman is quoted as saying 'Due to our ongoing arena issues, I just felt it was in the best interests for myself and the CBA to suspend operations'.
I have to disagree with that. If he did what was best for the team and the league, he would have paid is debt and the Explorers would still be playing. I feel bad for their fans(those still remaining).
www.greatfallstribune.com

[SUNKINGS]

Man the CBA has turned into BS shoveling machine. Who wants to set the odds on the chance a team is in Great Fall next year? Sounds like everything was awesome in GF except for that damn Four Seasons, its all there fault. Wanting to get paid for the use of their arena. Unbelievable

[TheStandard]

ABAish minds do ABAish things and the CBA is doing ABAish things

[sj2u]

Man the CBA has turned into BS shoveling machine. Who wants to set the odds on the chance a team is in Great Fall next year? Sounds like everything was awesome in GF except for that damn Four Seasons, its all there fault. Wanting to get paid for the use of their arena. Unbelievable

Amazing isn't it... makes the entire CBA leadership suspect - too bad they're not bright enough to hire a PR person who could tell them to distance themselves as far from Tuckman as fast as possible!!!:mad:

[OKCAVS67]

Looks like Tuckman is doing damage control.

http://www.greatfallstribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080227/NEWS01/802270303/1002

and

http://www.greatfallstribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080227/NEWS01/802270301/1002

[SUNKINGS]

Stiffed a pizza place, classic. Who in the world doesnt have credit cards?
I have high enough credit card limits in my wallet right now to run the CBA for a few weeks . And I am just a lowly Apple salesman.

[preeths]

He bounced a $300 check to the high school less than two weeks ago. That's on no one but Tuckman. What is wrong with this guy? His complaints about arena rent should fall on deaf ears when he can't even take care of a $300 bill to a school in the community he supposedly wants to be a part of. Also, he forgets to bring any form of payment when he takes his team out to eat and then conveniently forgets to immediately go back and pay the restaurant his $320 bill? Ugh, I hope the paper follows up on his promises.

[psbf]

I read that article. When I saw the headline I really hoped that he was seriously trying to make amends. But after reading it, I still have my doubts. I really feel sorry for the H.S. students who really could have used the money, though. I mean all of them could also, of course. But especially the students. It's not fair to them.

[bomp]

Oh what happened to Gym Coyne with all of this Tuckman garbage? Why would a league have anything to do with him?

Are these the last days of the CBA? I think so. The merger will happen shortly. The CBA owners are tired.

[jbirdmontana]

Just to you,the Standard, I want to know where you find this stuff at, cause the only site that I could find that talks only about the BSN was in spanish, and I want to see what this BSN league is all about.

[jjbballfan]

This is why the league shouldn't of approved the sale...... nothing against Apex or Tuckman but they are two of the same, both looking out for themselves and to approve the sale to a shady businessman like Tuckman a week before is not smart..... The only time sales should be approved during the season (this includes the weeks leading up to the season) is to local businessmen.... Tuckman bought this team not knowing anything about the area and apparently about the team..... I'm not saying Tuckman isn't at fault because he should of knew what was going on but I think the average fan could of seen the trouble coming when it was announced that the team was sold right before the season to a franchise that was rumored to have problems before hand.

[ABARedWhiteBlue]

Just to you,the Standard, I want to know where you find this stuff at, cause the only site that I could find that talks only about the BSN was in spanish, and I want to see what this BSN league is all about.

He is part of the BSN - has been for a while.

[Pounder]

The only time sales should be approved during the season (this includes the weeks leading up to the season) is to local businessmen....

So you'd rather just fold the team? Do you realize the signal that sends, especially to the CBA, especially at that point?

I think the CBA would have LOVED to sell to locals, BTW. The issue is demand (in a supply/demand sense). Everyone locally KNEW they'd have been taking on debts they clearly didn't want. Nobody is going to step up and immediately suffer the wrath of their friends, not to mention competitors.

Perhaps I'd have told Tuckman to take a long walk off a short pier in a stiff wind, but the other choices are all that desperate.

[psbf]

a hard time understanding this. GF folds and Atlanta loses their home for the rest of the season and the X wind up with just two games out of 5, yet the Krunk are forced to take over the Explorers remaining schedule, which is supposed to include the Xplosion who are left off?? Can some please explain the logic here?
Oh, right. This is a league that does not even have their playoff schedule announced yet with maybe a week left in the regular season!!

[SUNKINGS]

PBSF, this is a big moment in your life. You see the light , the CBA is a trainwreck. It doesnt mean we cant all enjoy it. People have been trying so hard to get you to open your eyes, to the all of the league's problems. And you always reply with something to the effect" I love the X and until I read it it , i am not going to beleive it" Is it possible PBSF, or are you being sarcastic? I see no icons.

[SUNKINGS]

Actually reasons are as follows. The Krunk are playing out west Minot/Yak next week, which is the final week of the regular season. They would have to extend the season into the following week to play games that almost certainly will have no bearing on the playoffs. Plus the playoffs begin early in the week (as early as 3-11/12). And the travel costs would be prohibitive, as it would be last second plans. The X would have to share in a large part of these costs. Then to play unscheduled games in Pitt well do I need to say ,they wouldnt be selling out the place. Everytime the X flip on the lights at the arena du jour and 500 people show up they lose money. None of these things occured to you, really?

[psbf]

Kings, I realize what everyone is saying about the league is true. But please, spare me your sarcastic replies and try to respond with honesty.
I just read in 'The Monitor' that the league has decided to officially go with the top 2 in each Division. Unfortunately, they are planning to have an end of the season show down between the Xplosion and the Miners to decide 2nd in the East. WE ARE IN SECOND!! Why do we need a showdown, just because they give E.K. more games and shorten our schedule?? They could at least replace our canceled games with Atlanta and GF and give us a replacement opponent! Or give us forfeits for those unplayed games!! Why do we need a playoff against E.K.??

[jjbballfan]

So you'd rather just fold the team? Do you realize the signal that sends, especially to the CBA, especially at that point?

I think the CBA would have LOVED to sell to locals, BTW. The issue is demand (in a supply/demand sense). Everyone locally KNEW they'd have been taking on debts they clearly didn't want. Nobody is going to step up and immediately suffer the wrath of their friends, not to mention competitors.

Perhaps I'd have told Tuckman to take a long walk off a short pier in a stiff wind, but the other choices are all that desperate.

Whats is worse? Having a team sit out a season to get things under control or to have what has happened in Great Falls this season? I think Tuckman is a joke but even a good owner would of had problems in Great Falls taking over with the problems that were on the table when that transaction took place....

[PikevilleOT]

I just read in 'The Monitor' that the league has decided to officially go with the top 2 in each Division. Unfortunately, they are planning to have an end of the season show down between the Xplosion and the Miners to decide 2nd in the East. WE ARE IN SECOND!! Why do we need a showdown, just because they give E.K. more games and shorten our schedule?? They could at least replace our canceled games with Atlanta and GF and give us a replacement opponent! Or give us forfeits for those unplayed games!! Why do we need a playoff against E.K.??

On the surface I can understand your frustrations. I think that this one game playoff for 2nd will be a great game up in Pitt.. Have they announced when that game takes place? (11th?)

They didn't give EK more games or shorten your schedule. I think the league backed themselves into this as they "forced" EK to play in sub-par conditions in GF with last minute changes due to the whole Tuckman fiasco, whereas another team just simply would not/did not have to .. and say what we will about Tuckman, but the GF team at the end was VERY competitive and did take 1/2 from EK on that trip.

Also, earlier in the year EK played 2 games in ATL with below 50 degree weather despite requesting league reschedule with Pitt later getting a "forfeit" for the same reason as Coach Knox said the team wouldnt play in 44 degree gym (I don't blame him), so they may have been faced with creating a one game playoff due to poor league management over the course of the season.

I am looking forward to a return trip to Pitt as my last venture North wasn't a rewarding one with that 115-111 loss. The league did they best they could to salvage a bad situation.

[psbf]

No details have been given, according to that article. It could be up here or down there(which is what concerns me).
Second, it can't be on the 11th because the X have a doubleheader with the Steelers planned where the X host Albany.
Third, the X should not be in the position of a playoff battle with E.K. because we are IN second place and should be given a forfeit for the games that were ppd. At least your team was able to PLAY in Albany! We were never given the chance! If we had been given forfeits(21 points) no showdown would be neccesary!
This is just the league's way of screwing with our great season!!

[PikevilleOT]

come to think of it you are right.. the CBA is intentionally screwing up the X's season.... we (the Miners) were "lucky" enough to play in high school gyms in GF and in a frigid gym in ATL also.... it's too bad the X were "unlucky" and didnt get that pleasure. Ask anyone and we would also take the extra 21-35 forfeit points and be "tied" for second.

seems the 11th with the Steelers exhibition including Franco Harris as coach would be an attandence booster for a play-in game..... but we would be happy to host the X for the game here.

[FrontOffice]

If the Albany @ X game has no bearing at that point in time, wouldn't it make sense to substitute EK for Albany and use that doubleheader as the play-in game?? Think about it, that reschedule is supposed to take place two days after the season closes anyway.

[PikevilleOT]

my thinking exactly.... turn a meaningless game into the play-in... perhaps pick up the crowd boost of having steelers in the gym.. and maybe, just maybe the X would have more fans there than the Miners.

It was clear that last time, the Miners had just as many fans rooting for them that the X. I just need to get time off work for another road trip..

[psbf]

I appreciate your positive thinking, ot. But let's not get too far ahead of things. Officially, the details are not out so it is not known(to me at least) where the game will be played. And I'm still frustrated that this is being handled this way by the league. :mad:

[PikevilleOT]

i think that frustration is the norm this season.. each team's fans have been frustrated at one time or another this season. I think this will only help build the natural Miners/X rivalry even moreso.

[psbf]

Well, add to that, the league has awarded forfeits to Albany who is NOW BACK IN the playoffs, according to the Troy Record!! The Patroons get awarded forfeits for the teams that we also played yet got none!! THIS DOES NOT MAKE SENSE!!! If we were awarded forfeits also, there would be NO concern!!

[TheStandard]

Why do you feel that the world is out to screw the X?

The X are screwing themselves. Win the games you have to win and you dont need to worry.

Was great falls in your schedule for upcoming games? If no. Don't complain

[Chuck the Writer]

Well, add to that, the league has awarded forfeits to Albany who is NOW BACK IN the playoffs, according to the Troy Record!! The Patroons get awarded forfeits for the teams that we also played yet got none!! THIS DOES NOT MAKE SENSE!!! If we were awarded forfeits also, there would be NO concern!!

Okay, first off.

Atlanta's facility was a dump. It had no heat. It had no shot clocks. The team was given every possible opportunity to upgrade their facility or move to a more suitable venue. In the case when Pittsburgh went down there, the Krunk moved their games to one of Georgia Tech's practice facilities.

As for Great Falls, by this point in time you didn't know where the games would be played (or if they would be played). The Patroons had no guarantee that they would get off the plane and have to take maybe a 30-mile drive into the mountains to play on a short high school court with no three-point line or working shot clocks. This was after Oklahoma went up there and Michael Tuckman had issues trying to find a suitable venue, and only finding one at the last minute.

Great Falls folds, Atlanta's home building is deemed unsuitable. So that nobody loses any home games, the Krunk become a road squad and assume the Explorers' road schedule. Any games in which the Explorers would have hosted a team, or the Krunk would have hosted a team, are now 7-0 forfeits.

It's not the perfect solution, but to use the sports cliche of the past five years, it is what it is. The CBA gets through the season and we get the strongest five franchises into the playoffs, and there's still the possibility of a three-way battle for those last two positions in the American Conference playoff berth.

[formerlyknownasfells]

Chuck,

Tell me this, is the CBA in trouble with what has gone on of late, or is this just a minor bump in the road?

[psbf]

Standard, yes they were! We were to have played in Atlanta tonight. That should have been switched as another X home game, then we were to play in GF on Tues and Wed, which should have been a pair of forfeits for us.
I feel the correct way would be to have the Krunk visit ALL their remaining opponents and have forfeits given to ALL the Explorers opponents who were left on their schedule, after they folded. I'm not saying that the Xplosion have an insurmountable lead, but I don't see how we benefited in any way.

[Chuck the Writer]

Chuck,

Tell me this, is the CBA in trouble with what has gone on of late, or is this just a minor bump in the road?

Honestly, IMHO this is just a minor bump in the road, and is endemic to minor league sports. Franchises relocate. Franchises fold. Franchises start up again. It's like grass growing after winter. The ABA has made us all jaded with franchises appearing and disappearing with the speed of kudzu, but the CBA will continue and rise again for the 2008-09 campaign.

Besides, if it folded, who would PSBF root for if his beloved Xplosion weren't there? :)

[PikevilleOT]

Okay, first off.

Atlanta's facility was a dump. It had no heat. It had no shot clocks. The team was given every possible opportunity to upgrade their facility or move to a more suitable venue. In the case when Pittsburgh went down there, the Krunk moved their games to one of Georgia Tech's practice facilities.

As for Great Falls, by this point in time you didn't know where the games would be played (or if they would be played). The Patroons had no guarantee that they would get off the plane and have to take maybe a 30-mile drive into the mountains to play on a short high school court with no three-point line or working shot clocks. This was after Oklahoma went up there and Michael Tuckman had issues trying to find a suitable venue, and only finding one at the last minute.

Great Falls folds, Atlanta's home building is deemed unsuitable. So that nobody loses any home games, the Krunk become a road squad and assume the Explorers' road schedule. Any games in which the Explorers would have hosted a team, or the Krunk would have hosted a team, are now 7-0 forfeits.

It's not the perfect solution, but to use the sports cliche of the past five years, it is what it is. The CBA gets through the season and we get the strongest five franchises into the playoffs, and there's still the possibility of a three-way battle for those last two positions in the American Conference playoff berth.

Chuck, thanks for backing up my point of the Miners plight as psbf laments the X's misfortunes.

The Miners endured the high school gym in GF due to league mandates, endured the abysmal gym in ATL and other teams escaped it... just a victim of the CBA schedule.... it is what it is truly sums it up best

[formerlyknownasfells]

You are correct in that the ABA does have us jaded quite a bit. Honestly, I don't know much about the CBA, I really know what you and I have talked about and have done some research of my own.

Now, let me throw this one out there. Would minor league basketball be better suited if the CBA, PBL and maybe the IBL merged to create a "Superleague"? This way there could be a true feeder system for the NBA that isn't just limited to the D-League.

[SUNKINGS]

Wow thats pretty optimistic. No minor league BB league will ever be "SUPER"
And as long as the D-league is in business there will be no feeding.

[TheStandard]

The Super league will just feed everyone else.

The D league is to feed the NBA. the Super league or whatever you may call it will just feed the D league and all of the other leagues in the world. thats all.

But wait the D league does that too, great feeder to the world. hmmm.

Thanks Joe Newman and Isiah Thomas you two fools from Indiana sure messed minor league basketball up

[Sam Hill]

This is just the league's way of screwing with our great season!!

And...as we all know...that's the league's reasoning behind this.

They said "How can we screw with the great 23-18 season of the Pittsburgh Xplosion?" and this is what they came up with.

[psbf]

I did voice my complaint to the league office and was sent a response telling me that this was they best way they felt they could do it.
I still feel the best way was for GF to forfeit to all their future opponents(rest of their schedule) and for the Krunk to finish theirs on the road.
Yes, S.H., we do have a 23-18 record. But with the one-game playoff that is tossed out the window(imo). Hopefully Oklahoma will spit their series tonight.

[PikevilleOT]

psbf, guess u would prefer albany to the miners?

[Chuck the Writer]

PSBF, don't worry about it. By being the #2 seed, you get the play-in game at home. And if you happen to win the play-in game, you get the first game of the three-game series versus Minot at home. You don't have to drive to Pikeville or to Albany with your foam finger in the back seat of your black-and-yellow-decorated Honda Civic with the bumper sticker saying "Honk if you love John DeGroat" on the rear fender.

Besides, you think Albany was handed a playoff berth? Albany's last six games are two against Minot (who they haven't beaten at all this year), two against Rio Grande Valley (who, believe it or not, they haven't beaten this season) and two against Oklahoma (who they only played when the Cavalry sent replacement players during one of Micheal Ray Richardson's meltdowns).

Meanwhile, the Miners only have what, three games left on their schedule - at home versus Oklahoma, at home versus Atlanta (arguably a cupcake match) and on the road v Minot. And the Miners would still have to win those three games and hope Albany suddenly doesn't develop a Pittsburgh Pisces come-from-behind mentality and overtake them in the standings.

Besides, isn't this what we want near the end of the regular season - a dogfight for the final two playoff spots?

[Sam Hill]

I did voice my complaint to the league office and was sent a response telling me that this was they best way they felt they could do it.


Well, there you go.

[panchess]

..and people were yelling "Fire Askew" last night. Not looking like a playoff team.

The Troy paper reported that the Patroons got three forfeit wins. Maybe they lumped in the win Pittsburgh will get over Atlanta. Albany is done with the Krunk, having had the relative misfortune to play them largely in the beginning of the season when they had a better team. It does even out.

[Kev the Cav]

and two against Oklahoma (who they only played when the Cavalry sent replacement players during one of Micheal Ray Richardson's meltdowns).



He didn't have a meltdown... he was fired for calling the league to report players weren't getting paid.

[psbf]

I remember that. Fired for trying to do the right thing.

[Sam Hill]

he was fired for calling the league to report players weren't getting paid.

After he wasn't fired for anti-Semitic remarks (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2816356).

Shows you where priorities lie.

[wellington]

Nothing new, but the latest blurb from the GF Tribune.

Too Bad Explorer's season over (http://www.greatfallstribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080304/OPINION01/803040305)

[MontanaFella]

I read that story in the paper this morning but didn't see the online version where people can post comments.

Here is the latest one.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Comments by: Pogue Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 7:45 pm
Just heard on the scanner that the police were called to the Holiday Inn in Great Falls for an irate patron. Upon arriving, low and behold, GFPD asked dispatch to run one Micheal Tuckman.

Well thats 2 hotels here in town he's been "escorted" out of by the police...

Seattle is that way Mr. Tuckman, over the mountains, Have a nice day!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

I would say that it is unbelievable but that wouldn't be fair to our friend Tuckman. Its too bad that the team likely won't return, because I bet they could sell out a Mike Tuckman appreciation night...all in attendance get free tomatoes.

[bomp]

I read that story in the paper this morning but didn't see the online version where people can post comments.

Here is the latest one.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Comments by: Pogue Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 7:45 pm
Just heard on the scanner that the police were called to the Holiday Inn in Great Falls for an irate patron. Upon arriving, low and behold, GFPD asked dispatch to run one Micheal Tuckman.

Well thats 2 hotels here in town he's been "escorted" out of by the police...

Seattle is that way Mr. Tuckman, over the mountains, Have a nice day!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

I would say that it is unbelievable but that wouldn't be fair to our friend Tuckman. Its too bad that the team likely won't return, because I bet they could sell out a Mike Tuckman appreciation night...all in attendance get free tomatoes.

It sounds like Tuck has some issues. I hope that he gets some help and medication. It is ruining his life and destroying basketball. This is really sad. :(