PDA

View Full Version : Dallas Defenders Cease Operations In PBL


radiodavel
02-11-2008, 08:54 PM
Dallas Defenders Cease Operations In PBL
http://www.oursportscentral.com/services/releases/?id=3591633

The Magician
02-11-2008, 09:02 PM
Dallas Defenders Cease Operations In PBL
http://www.oursportscentral.com/services/releases/?id=3591633

The PBL is having a rough time of it lately ...

DazedAndAmused
02-11-2008, 09:09 PM
Only real positive is that both of these teams (Jax, Dallas) were going to be purged in the off season. (That was no secret.) Whoda thunk that team that showed up in Wilmington may in fact be the Dallas representative for the remainder of the season?

I personally thought the league and the Dallas owner would work it out til the end of the year. Anyone know if the players, coaches, and venue there were getting paid?

preeths
02-11-2008, 09:21 PM
Posted this in another thread:

Just received a call from Erin Patton of the Defenders to say that release was not accurate and was sent out prematurely by the PR folks. He told us to expect updated information tonight.

robster2001
02-11-2008, 11:07 PM
Umm... how does a release like that even get written if it's "premature"?

Dallas and Jax are a reminder that a league is only as strong as its weakest link. And any joke about the weakest link in any other league would be mean-spirited, and off-topic in this thread, so I won't do it.

rider
02-12-2008, 08:10 AM
The jacksonville and Dallas owners are a joke ! They are trying to put forth the ultimate spin! We didn't pay our bills , we failed and its the leagues fault. Putting out these releases do they really think the public is that stupid?They admit the league is paying travel ect and yet they can't pay the bills. The only thing the league can be blamed for is letting them in in the first place but the league was desperate and not ready to play this year.Dallas was never ready!

DazedAndAmused
02-12-2008, 10:25 AM
rider, what you say is largely right. dallas and jax should never have started the year. the league probably needed more time to get fully ready, but I dont think it really had a choice without risking the good markets they had. completing the full schedule with some entities known as "dallas" and "jax" will be a victory at this point.

logoguru
02-12-2008, 10:31 AM
Its good that the league feels obligated to have "these" teams finish the season unlike another league, so at least thats a good sign from the PBL. Does this make a merger/buy out more likely for next season?
________
HOW TO ROLL BLUNTS (http://howtorollablunt.net/)

DazedAndAmused
02-12-2008, 02:59 PM
Posted this in another thread:

Just received a call from Erin Patton of the Defenders to say that release was not accurate and was sent out prematurely by the PR folks. He told us to expect updated information tonight.

.....Inquiry minds want to know.....

Clarification: I should ask is the existing Dallas ownership group in our out?

preeths
02-12-2008, 03:07 PM
I'm told we'll know later today. Regardless of the outcome, a team representing Dallas will continue to play in the PBL, according to what I was told.

not so fast
02-12-2008, 03:14 PM
New ownership group is in, im pretty sure of that.

radiodavel
02-12-2008, 03:16 PM
Let the games begin...would love to be a fly in the room

DazedAndAmused
02-12-2008, 03:19 PM
So, basically, after they issued their PR, they found a new ownership group within an hour that didn't have "strategic differences" with league?

What were the differences? The league believed in paying players and coaches and the team didn't?

I guess an 11th hour savior isn't out of the question, but there was certainly some incompetence somewhere in Dallas on this one.

Nonetheless, I hope this works out and the team can get back to business and get its games played and perhaps even work on building its market again.....but I suggest getting some new PR people.

........I think radiodavel brought me over to the dark side on this one.

radiodavel
02-12-2008, 03:33 PM
no wonder Dallas missed there flight to Wilmington, they have trouble telling what time it is...promising OSC to get a release last night and look at the time frame as of now, no release,,,

sending out the wrong release....not sure if that happens by mistake...

a new owner for Dallas, I have some swamp land in Fla if he is interested LOL

LightningMan
02-12-2008, 03:39 PM
A new owner for Dallas? I have some swamp land in Fla if he is interested LOL
Seems to me that the teams (players and coaches) or the league aren't the shady parties here, but two less than desirable owners. While I think Dallas is an incredibly stupid market to try to have minor league basketball (what with that other team there), I don't think a franchise in the PBL per se is a bad idea.

And swamp land in Florida is going for a princely sum these days.

DazedAndAmused
02-12-2008, 04:20 PM
Seems to me that the teams (players and coaches) or the league aren't the shady parties here, but two less than desirable owners. While I think Dallas is an incredibly stupid market to try to have minor league basketball (what with that other team there), I don't think a franchise in the PBL per se is a bad idea.

And swamp land in Florida is going for a princely sum these days.

From what i can tell here, the players, coaches (i don't know that i believe the "missed flight" story anymore, btw), and the league have responded admirably. Because the league has contingency plans to keep these guys playing (and thus paid), I do think it is at least fair to separate the so called "owners" from the league/players/coaches in the general criticism.

The league obviously still must face their past admissions policies, but that is spilt' milk at this point.

radiodavel
02-12-2008, 04:37 PM
tick, tock, tick, tock...no word yet on Dallas update? Bring in the PBL Travellers LOL

DazedAndAmused
02-12-2008, 04:48 PM
i still have a theory that they may become "Dallas," but i'll bet you anything they are still "on call" for weekend.

btw, i don't think these guys were a joke. i am told they are a coached, established team with experienced minor leaguers and streetballers, the beating aside in wilmington (which supposedly was close for 3 quarters.) they were supposed to have a role in the league from the beginning, but were forced on short notice to action.

radiodavel
02-12-2008, 04:56 PM
If they were the PBL Travellers and have been planned...how were they able to be gathered and sent on a flight to Wilmington to play the same night, that supposedly the Dallas team could not get a flight and make it there (even if they missed it and at least they had tickets). No way could that have happened unless it was planned, and I find that as hard to believe. The Travellers a mystery team!

There was no release that said who they were or where they came from other than the name the Travellers.

If you are like me, tell me the truth about who they are...

formerlyknownasfells
02-12-2008, 05:16 PM
I think we all see that the PBL has hit a couple of bumps this season. The other thing we should all be able to see that despite the problems, the games are being played. In the ABA, these problems would simply be swept under the rug. To the credit of Tom and Sev, there is action being taken to ensure the games are played and that the teams in trouble don't just fold. They have made sure in the case of Jacksonville that the league will run the team and have arranged for another venue in Jacksonville.

Remember one thing, this league was put together and was up and running in just ten months. Davel, you have to give credit to Tom and Sev for that and for encountering as few problems as they have.

I have to say that in dealing with the league as much as I have in the last three weeks, I am nothing but impressed. The quality of play is strong, Tom is nothing but honest with me when asked tough questions, and his passion for basketball and for the league is contagious. I have seen him at Nighthawks games and he seems to know everyone by name, always has something nice to say to everyone and his players and staff have nothing but amazing things to say about him. Tom is a class human being and the work he has put into this league simply amazes me.

Tom and Jeanette are class acts and work their tails off. (Jeanette being the co-owner of the Nighthawks) Because of people like that, this is a league that mark my words will be a success.

preeths
02-12-2008, 05:19 PM
Easy, we can't make anyone talk. We're waiting just like you. The release from last night, premature or not, will force some hands.

Sam Hill
02-12-2008, 06:16 PM
This just in: minor-league basketball is a tough deal.

tops804
02-12-2008, 06:19 PM
This just in: minor-league basketball is a tough deal.

3 reasons:
1) Thomas
2) Newman
3) Economy

a1sports
02-12-2008, 06:39 PM
and I will also agree to that. When the few times Tom comes to the phone when I call, he is straight up with me, He doesn have to take my calls but he does. Unlike the CEO of another league that within 30 seconds calls me every name in the book. They have a plan and are doing a good job IMO.
Are ther bumps? sure there are but look at the other pro leagues ( CBA and NBDL and Im sure there a bumps there too). Having Deep pockets usually helps any business out !

radiodavel
02-12-2008, 06:49 PM
Here we go comparing leagues again...we are still waiting to see the new release on Dallas after the other one was pulled, looks more and more like that is all they wanted is to have that story pulled...they had time to put out a release on the camp in Chicago...

I'm glad that Tom is a nice guy, but you know the old saying...nice guys finish last...

by the way why is the CEO handling all of this and not the commissioner?

sorry but I don't see pulling any one to the "dark side", how about the "force be with you", I don't feel like a bad guy...holding someone accountable is not a bad thing, it evens helps sometimes...been on both sides of this...

also, a lot of talk on the PBL show about Asia, India, Thailand etc expansion, maybe the PBL should take care of the home front first...

LightningMan
02-12-2008, 07:59 PM
But you're not holding anyone accountable, Davel. You're just kvetching. You won't even define what's right when complaining about what's wrong. You have a major beef about the Travellers and how they were used, but you still won't say how you would have liked them to handle that. You're not some sort of integrity crusader. You are a supposed fan who is taking the opportunity of two crises to say "Oh, look! The PBL isn't perfect!"

Guess what, dude? We know they're not perfect. But you know what, they have played all but one game this year. For a first year league with two teams "folding", that's pretty dadgum good.

radiodavel
02-12-2008, 08:22 PM
you reschedule the game with Dallas, you already allowed a game to be rescheduled because of a bus being broken down. The game was billed as a PBL game, I don't care if you have 10,000 people coming...no one has explained who the Travellers are and why they were able to be there at the last minute. Game is listed in results 2 ways (one as forfeit and one with the Travellers score, no explanation)

I would dump Jacksonville and Dallas, they were bad choices in what was suppose to be a great process of "weeding" out possible franchises....Minnesota and Chicago Aztecas were a bust...

if every team could appear like Rochester and Wilmington, than you might have something

taking away scheduled home games to play a showcase is ok, if it had been scheduled originally...most likely this will help the Dallas - Jacksonville messs

Pr and marketing is terrible, some team sites are out of date

The league needs to let everyone know when there is a change in the schedule, playing games at Chicago just to play the games is wrong

call me a crusader if you want, this league is an average minor league

worry about the teams in the US, don't worry about expansion to Asia and all over the world

get a real commissioner, not a figure head, they could really use a good one now who understands some of this stuff...

who do you think is going to run the Jacksonville and possibly (if we ever hear) the Dallas franchise, it looks like the league, they have enough problems..

LightningMan
02-12-2008, 09:16 PM
Who do you think is going to run the Jacksonville and possibly (if we ever hear) the Dallas franchise? It looks like the league. They have enough problems.
First, I give you credit for having enough chutzpah to say that you'd reschedule the game and send about a thousand kids home unhappy. Your name would have become mud in this town, but at least you said what you'd have done.

Next, on the point quoted, the league's problems are Dallas and Jacksonville. And I certainly would rather the teams be run by the league than the franchises be run into the ground.

And why on God's green Earth do you care who any of the members of the Washington Generals (a k a the PBL Travelers) are? Are you Joe Newman and afraid one of your teams jumped ship on you?

radiodavel
02-12-2008, 09:26 PM
I have had to send people home from events like this in my life, wasn't fun, but it was fair to them, we would reschedule and do it right...that was a summer collegiate baseball team and also in a college baseball championship event I was in charge of...

my thought again in Jacksonville and Dallas is can them, than you have 4 teams in both divisions...nothing ever comes out of a league running a team and as I said they have enough things to worry about

scheduling needs to be improved - I don't care who is paying for the airfare, Dallas during the month of Jan and Feb 1 came to Illinois 4 times, played one game each trip...Rockford, QC and Chicago are close enough they could have played a weekend here in beautiful Illinois...Rockford went to Arkansas last weekend for a Friday game, they fly back to Ark again this weekend

TheStandard
02-12-2008, 09:38 PM
Silly ABAish owners destroying good things.

The ABA virus is worse than Ebola

bdaly
02-12-2008, 09:42 PM
In my opinion you never cancel a game, outside of extraordinary circumstances (storms). As soon as you do that, you lose an awful lot of credibility in your market. There's another league that proves that one in market after market. If the game turned out to be a joke due to the circumstances (which wasn't the case), perhaps you offer vouchers to another game.

But, good luck locking the doors on game day, hanging up a sign, and getting those people to return. This is the professional level, not a tournament. Ultimately, Jacksonville remains competitive, so I'm glad they're sticking around. I admire the PBL's determination to finish with the slate of teams they started with--it looks a lot more professional than having teams finish with an uneven number of games.

Hey, they're clearly willing to lose a few dollars this season, and more power to them. They knew the travel schedule coming in, so I don't think there's a need to worry for them. I hope they expand/merge to create a better footprint next year too, and I suspect they know it's key to their viability. But, I'm not going to worry about that this year or encourage them to shutter teams in midstream.

radiodavel
02-12-2008, 09:58 PM
bdaly - they (PBL) already rescheduled a game because the bus broke down, that was before the Wilmington game...plus, no one has yet told me who this team was and if they were actually a PBL Travelling team how they made it to Wilmington on time..not one statement from anyone...that facts and info would be helpful..

I have seen all of the west teams, which PBL teams have you seen, just so we know what we are looking at, by the way I have been told the PBL has posters on this site, so I would be interested if any have been on lately

BTW - the tournament was a National Collegiate baseball tournament with teams from all over the country, the summer collegiate team has produced numerous players that have gone on to play in MLB and the crowds were bigger than most of the crowds the west teams have...

as of now, still no statement or correction on the Dallas release...at least next year (if they are still in business) no one can use the "they are a 1st year league"

preeths
02-12-2008, 10:31 PM
Dave, what did they say when you contacted the PBL about the Travelers?

radiodavel
02-12-2008, 10:56 PM
I have told you before league business is business of the teams and this league is not being run by posters of OSC.

the above is what I got that last time I had a talk with someone from the PBL on another issue, not sure I can get the info I need on this issue

I have looked for stats from that game was not posted the other day,

I don't remember what other posting I saw this at - but someone said they were listed as "One Tree Hill" on something at the game, not sure if that person was at the game...it is somewhere here on the board...

would you not think that someone from the PBL would have had a release on this..maybe you have someone who can fill you in on this, and the actual status of this game

preeths
02-12-2008, 11:15 PM
Who told you the above quote? What was the context? How did you approach them? Did you have a history with the person quoted?

Wilmington did put out a release on the game. Not saying there isn't more to tell, but we did get something from the Sea Dawgs and the Wilmington media.

The Magician
02-12-2008, 11:59 PM
I have told you before league business is business of the teams and this league is not being run by posters of OSC.

Actually, that sounds more like something the ABA would say.

And WE all know why the ABA is run so poorly ...

It's partly because the OSC posters are not running the league.

If we did ... the ABA would be one heck of a basketball association ... and not the leaque that it is now ... :infun:

LightningMan
02-13-2008, 07:03 AM
Nothing ever comes out of a league running a team and as I said they have enough things to worry about.
So the Montreal Expos should have just been canned then? :D

LightningMan
02-13-2008, 07:04 AM
Not sure I can get the info I need on this issue.
You still haven't said why you need this info.

LightningMan
02-13-2008, 07:07 AM
I have seen all of the west teams; which PBL teams have you seen, just so we know what we are looking at?
I have seen every team in the East save Rochester and I have seen Arkansas. Does that mean my opinion counts more than yours? :mrgreen:

radiodavel
02-13-2008, 07:31 AM
Lightning man, no your opinion counts just as much as anyone, just wanted to see if we were seeing the same thing,,,I don't comment on these boards unless it is a league I've actually seen in progress or have some knowledge about a subject

these boards are an excellant resource for finding out team movement, etc...helps my research a bunch, plus I check other boards out as well when needed,,,folks on boards love this or they wouldn't be on them...I look for the facts more than I do the process; however I was asked by you and others to say what I would do, so I do that when asked

MLB baseball did try and get rid of them (Expos) , but the players union thru a little fit...

why shouldn't I want to know who they are? I do my homework on projects, makes the process a lot easier when you know the facts

LightningMan
02-13-2008, 07:52 AM
"Why shouldn't I know?" is a lot different than "I need to know." No one is saying you shouldn't know. What I wanted to know is why you needed to know. Are you writing a book or something?

DazedAndAmused
02-13-2008, 09:10 AM
We can't forget that people with agendas come to these boards.

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with that, but you aren't always going to get reason and logic here nor are you going to get genuine debate from somebody who has an agenda.

Radiodavel has a good knack for pointing out the obvious. (Don't know, don't care what his agenda is.) Certainly the "Travelers" were probably a notch below league level for a few reasons....um, OK...good pick up. Who really cares what assembly of minor league journeymen and streetballers comprised the Travelers? I'd like to see a roster for grins too, but its content doesn't take away from what we all know the situation to have been. Getting that team to Wilmington was a great move.

The bottom line is that the PBL bus had a flat tire (Jax) last week. But, they were running "run flats" and the bus is still moving. Maybe they even ran out of gas last week briefly (Dallas), but they pulled out the spare tank and the bus is still moving. Historically, in most other leagues, the bus is dead and rusting on the side of the road.

The PBL, even though I don't personally agree with every move, has shown itself as a stand up member of the minor league basektball world and has done things no one else has.

Like I said, the bus is still moving.

bdaly
02-13-2008, 09:43 AM
bdaly - they (PBL) already rescheduled a game because the bus broke down, that was before the Wilmington game...plus, no one has yet told me who this team was and if they were actually a PBL Travelling team how they made it to Wilmington on time..not one statement from anyone...that facts and info would be helpful..
Yes, that's not from a team folding and leaving the standings to look like some haphazard listing of teams that have played a random number of games. The bus breakdown isn't good, but it's a lot more understandable at least.

Finally, this is from the PBL website:

The Chicago Aztecas are the current PBL International traveling team. Look for the Aztecas to be competing in upcoming International events.

I have no idea if that means this team played that game, but it certainly seems like a possibility.

bdaly
02-13-2008, 09:47 AM
We can't forget that people with agendas come to these boards.

Yes, and that's pretty evident here. The PBL has had its issues, but it's always interesting when someone becomes so fixated on one league, especially when more than one other league has at least as embarrassing events occurring. It's pretty telling.

LightningMan
02-13-2008, 10:08 AM
Finally, this is from the PBL website:

The Chicago Aztecas are the current PBL International traveling team. Look for the Aztecas to be competing in upcoming International events.

I have no idea if that means this team played that game, but it certainly seems like a possibility.
Which, given Midway and O'Hare, would explain how they could make a later, short notice flight to North Carolina when Dallas couldn't.

Ken, Steelheads fan
02-13-2008, 10:36 AM
So the Montreal Expos should have just been canned then? :D

Oops! There you go again, comparing Major League Baseball to the PBL again. Major League Baseball has more fans than the PBL (sorry, for being Mr. Obvious). 8)

I would weigh-in in greater depth on the PBL, but I don't understand the PBL. Worst concept to come along in years, IMO. At least I understand the ABA (which posters often compare the PBL to).

radiodavel
02-13-2008, 10:45 AM
bdaly and lightning man, thanks for picking on me, sure makes my day go by so much better, sorry you think I am bad guy...didn't know you could only talk about 1 league, will mind my manners in the future...have a good day

LightningMan
02-13-2008, 11:02 AM
Oops! There you go again, comparing Major League Baseball to the PBL again. Major League Baseball has more fans than the PBL (sorry, for being Mr. Obvious). 8)

I would weigh-in in greater depth on the PBL, but I don't understand the PBL. Worst concept to come along in years, IMO. At least I understand the ABA (which posters often compare the PBL to).
Just because the PBL isn't MLB doesn't mean my point is invalid. The MLB ran the Expos for several years before moving them to Washington and finding them an owner. Yes, they considered contraction, but in the end, I believe the people of Washington DC and Northern VA are happy they didn't.

As to not understanding the PBL, I understand the concept perfectly: the ABA done correctly. :mrgreen:

LightningMan
02-13-2008, 11:06 AM
bdaly and lightning man, thanks for picking on me, sure makes my day go by so much better, sorry you think I am bad guy...didn't know you could only talk about 1 league, will mind my manners in the future...have a good day
Whoa, dude. How have I "picked on you"? I have never said you were a bad guy. I have disagreed with you and I wanted to know why the Travelers were such a sore point for you. If Ken the Steelhead fan or you can disagree with me, then by gum I can disagree with you. I know nothing about you personally and nothing I have said here is against you personally. I disagree with you on some points regarding the PBL. That's it. Stop acting the martyr.

preeths
02-13-2008, 11:16 AM
bdaly and lightning man, thanks for picking on me, sure makes my day go by so much better, sorry you think I am bad guy...didn't know you could only talk about 1 league, will mind my manners in the future...have a good day

You'd do yourself a favor to lose the persecution complex and sarcasm. No one is saying your opinion is without merit or you don't have a right to it. No one is saying the PBL does not have problems. You've made your point and repeating the same thing in an infinite loop really doesn't add to the discussion. It seems as if you're willing to throw the league under the bus at this point, and you can certainly do that if you wish. Based upon what we've seen so far, some others aren't willing to do the same. Let's move on and see what happens this weekend and the rest of the season.

Pounder
02-13-2008, 12:02 PM
The bottom line is that the PBL bus had a flat tire (Jax) last week. But, they were running "run flats" and the bus is still moving. Maybe they even ran out of gas last week briefly (Dallas), but they pulled out the spare tank and the bus is still moving. Historically, in most other leagues, the bus is dead and rusting on the side of the road.


In one case, there's another bus stranded on the side of the road with the owner standing right next to it saying it runs just fine and selling seats for the next ride. What could the people IN the bus be thinking?

Right now, there's another bus with the owner swearing that he'll get it replaced if you just help him out a bit, maybe buy into some foreign stocks he's trying to sell for someone, etc. It can run with extra added water in the radiator, however, should it?

(Had to stop here, because I was about to compare the IBL to a bus that got sold after running the Green Tortoise route... long story and maybe not the best analogy. Then there's the D.)

DazedAndAmused
02-13-2008, 12:11 PM
i think i'll regret starting the bus analogy.

Pounder
02-13-2008, 12:49 PM
Darn, no sheepish nervous grin smiley.

Sorry.

I try not to run any given analogy into the ground, much less through it and to China. However, such a dug route would be the only way anyone should be talking about internationally based minor pro teams.

Paul S
02-13-2008, 08:12 PM
also, a lot of talk on the PBL show about Asia, India, Thailand etc expansion, maybe the PBL should take care of the home front first...



I agree, and I would STRONGLY suggest you pass that sentiment on to your man Joe Newman too. Its good advice.

DazedAndAmused
02-13-2008, 09:31 PM
I agree, and I would STRONGLY suggest you pass that sentiment on to your man Joe Newman too. Its good advice.

I agree too, but I do see the league taking care of its problems (that are inevitable in minor league ball.)

Assisting (or taking over) its weak links, implementing travel teams, creating a talent showcase, and playing a full schedule are all good things that will form the basis of a solid league.