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View Full Version : Defenseless: Wilmington defeats...Travelers?


LightningMan
02-08-2008, 09:49 PM
It was a night of mystery at the Schwartz Center, which saw the disappearance of the Dallas Defenders, the debut of the PBL Travelers, and a special guest appearance by the Harlem Globetrotters (sort of).

I arrived to a packed house just before warm ups were over. I noticed that the visitors' jerseys looked kind of off. Moreover they were gray, not the expected black of the monochromatic Defenders. The PA announcer stated that due to a problem in Dallas the Defenders wouldn't be playing tonight and that playing instead would be the PBL Travelers. Enter mysteries one and two. Moreover, he said that the game would count in the standings. Mystery three.

Then the lineups were announced and Cedric McGinnis was not in the starting line up for Wilmington. I couldn't see him on the bench and if he was there he never got in the game. Mystery number four.

The PBL Traveling team played gamely and the Sea Dawgs helped them with frequent, roster clearing substitutions, but the Dawgs out scored them nearly 3 to 2 all night. By the end of the third quarter, the Dawgs were putting on a show that Wilmington born Meadowlark Lemon would have been proud of, playing almost the entire last half of the fourth quarter above the rim.

The final score was something stupid like Wilmington 112 - PBL 79. But I was more intrigued by the game outside the game. I asked staff at half time what the Dallas deal was and what they told me was that Dallas missed their plane. I asked about this game counting and was told that Dallas forfeited this game, so that was how it counted and the PBL provided the Travelers because it was a packed house (and I mean packed) that was looking for a show and they didn't want to disappoint.

This lead me to wonder: Why forfeit over reschedule?
Did Dallas really miss the plane or are they in JAM-like trouble?
Are the Travelers what would have been the Aztecas (because they played like they have been practicing together)?
Was McGinnis rested or is he hurt and I missed it?
How long has the league had its own version of the Washington Generals?
Will the Travelers become the SLAM?

It was a very interesting night in Wilmington.

not so fast
02-08-2008, 10:08 PM
I can answer one of your questions the Dallas team missed their flight because the Dallas coach is an idiot and should not be coaching in any league. he was the cause of his team missing the flight because he is a loser. In addition the team will not go the way of the Jam, but the league must get better coaches and/or general managers for some of the teams, to make sure that this kind of stuff does not happen next season.

I'm not sure about the league version of the Washington Generals, but that was pretty funny on your post.

I can only hope that the league concentrate on the teams just playing all their games and not worry too much about other stuff like all star games, etc....they need to make sure they don't look anything like the ABA, and so far they have done a decent job.

I think the league is finding out how difficult it is to run a professional league. at least doing it right. It takes a lot of people who know what they are doing.

Next season for them should be a lot better (hopefully).

a1sports
02-08-2008, 10:27 PM
A few phone calls and we have the following:

The dallas team showed up at 8am for their 10:05 flight, problem was the 10:05 flight was from Atlanta to Wilmington. Their coach didnt notice the 7 am flight to Atlanta from Dallas.

The PBL sent in a practice team they have on the payroll, The game is a forfeit for Dallas. Also a fine.

Cedric McGinnis was released by Wilmington for personal reasons, No one could give me a reason but he was cut free. Looks like he may wind up with an ABA team. I was told by a source that he is not allowed in the PBL the rest of the year....dont know why.

Joe N should learn, this is how you handle 11th hour emergency, NAhhh he would never spend a dime of the 10k he got. Thats why you have the rec league ABA and the pro leagues PBL and CBA and NBDL.

LightningMan
02-08-2008, 10:30 PM
...the Dallas team missed their flight because the Dallas coach is an idiot and should not be coaching in any league. He was the cause of his team missing the flight because he is a loser...
Thanks for the information. Would you be kind enough to expand on this? What did (or didn't) he do?

Never mind. A1 posted it and I missed it.

LightningMan
02-08-2008, 11:18 PM
While the Sea Dawgs have other talented forwards, McGinnis was both a load in the low post and a threat from outside. It will be interesting to see how the Sea Dawgs recover.

BBallBoy
02-08-2008, 11:20 PM
I saw the Dallas team play in the Quad Cities and without question they had the best talent and coach of any I had seen. Seems a bit of a stretch to blame the apparent snafu on the Dallas team or coach. And in fact, if one looks through sites, the Dallas coach and Arkansas coach are the only ones in the PBL who have worked in the NBA. We would gladly take either one in here in QC.

tbayz1
02-08-2008, 11:28 PM
Speaking of QC, have the crowds gotten any better since the new GM or whoever that was that was hired after about a week into the season??

DazedAndAmused
02-09-2008, 12:02 AM
I have gotten a little more info about the Wilmington game as well:
1. it was a full house (venue holds 2k) - this must have been expected in advance and a reason for the league to bring another team in rather than rescheduling
2. No other city-based PBL team could be brought in any sooner based on existing schedule and flight availability
3. it was announced that the "travelers" were brought in, sanctioned (and i am told funded directly) by the league and that the game in fact would count in the standings....i assume that to mean that a wilmington loss tonight would have been a loss in the standings (so, i guess both wilm and dallas would have had losses); this team may fill as similar role throughout the season as/if needed elsewhere; i wonder too like lightningman if this team is related to anything "slam" or aztekas; at least for tonight, they were not presented as the slam
4. Cedric McGinnis is gone for the season. The team will not say why, but I have heard that they liked him alot. He was their best player. There is probably a story here, but we may never know. The team may not be the powerhouse they could be without him.
5. it was an entertaining game.
6. Dallas is apparently not in the same predicament as Jacksonville, but someone definitely did something "dumb" to screw the travel up
7. Also, other weird events at the game...there was a lights problem and an internet problem that may have affected the game streaming....sounds like a fun day for the seadawgs staff.

radiodavel
02-09-2008, 12:44 AM
Ok, you are telling me Dallas missed the flight and yet the Traveler's were able to make it to the game and be ready to play hmmmmm, especially since the Dallas team wouldn't have known that until 8 am...that seems really strange....Dallas also played a scheduled home game last Sunday at the Throwbacks court...how about I sell you some swamp land in Jacksonville...and the game counts too?

radiodavel
02-09-2008, 12:51 AM
posted today PBL Saturday schedule

SAT FEB 9
Rochester at Reading 1:00pm (est)
Wilmington at Maryland 7:00pm (est)
Quad Cities at Rockford 7:05pm (cst)
Chicago at Jacksonville 6:00 pm (est)

yesterday listing had Chicago at Jacksonville on Friday and than Chicago was to play at Dallas on Saturday....now Chicago plays at Jacksonville on Sat instead and no Dallas game,,,maybe they missed the bus to there home arena

a word of advice to the PBL, just tell us the truth we can all handle it....

radiodavel
02-09-2008, 01:00 AM
Chicago is now playing at Dallas on Sunday, hmmm who was on that Travelers roster at Wilmington...did it look like the Throwbacks

formerlyknownasfells
02-09-2008, 02:46 AM
Chicago is now playing at Dallas on Sunday, hmmm who was on that Travelers roster at Wilmington...did it look like the Throwbacks

As far as I know Maryland is still playing Wilmington tonight. (Saturday) McGinnis was released from his contract for personal reasons. I head to DC in a couple of hours...Damn insomnia.....And should find out more in the morning.

turbocamyes
02-09-2008, 08:01 AM
From a story on StarNewsOnline.com:

The Sea Dawgs (7-2) handled the traveling team, listed as One Tree Hill on the box score, with six players scoring in double figures.

http://www.starnewsonline.com/article/20080209/NEWS/802090392

We'll know more about the team once the boxscore is posted.

not so fast
02-09-2008, 08:53 AM
BBallboy, if the dallas coach is from the NBA, then how many flights did the NBA team he was associated with miss? (Being a bulls fan, the way the bullies have played this year, i wished they had miss some flights). And what was the dallas coach position anyway in the NBA? It certainly could not have been travel arrangements considering they have now missed two flights in two weeks!

Todd Day on the other hand has done a great job with his team. i will say this, just because someone has been involved in the NBA, does not make them a good coach necessarily, i remember stacey king in the CBA. Fired by two CBA teams in less than a year. Also look at the Atlanta team in the CBA with kenny anderson, not exactly rolling over everyone in the CBA.

Coach Daleo in Minot of the CBA has no direct involvement in the NBA, but is the best coach in the CBA and arguably the best coach in minorleague basketball in the country.

LightningMan
02-09-2008, 10:39 AM
7. Also, other weird events at the game...there was a lights problem and an internet problem that may have affected the game streaming....sounds like a fun day for the seadawgs staff.
Didn't comment last night but I should have: the lights that went out were the lights over the crowd (my section to boot). The court, thank goodness, stayed illuminated until it was fixed.

As to the streaming, I found out today that the team had the webcaster shut it down since it wasn't Dallas. I'm guessing the approach that Wilmington and the league are taking is that the webcasts are not for the locals but for the out of town fans, and there would be no one who wanted to buy a stream for a team that wasn't theirs.

preeths
02-09-2008, 10:52 AM
posted today PBL Saturday schedule

SAT FEB 9
Rochester at Reading 1:00pm (est)
Wilmington at Maryland 7:00pm (est)
Quad Cities at Rockford 7:05pm (cst)
Chicago at Jacksonville 6:00 pm (est)

yesterday listing had Chicago at Jacksonville on Friday and than Chicago was to play at Dallas on Saturday....now Chicago plays at Jacksonville on Sat instead and no Dallas game,,,maybe they missed the bus to there home arena

a word of advice to the PBL, just tell us the truth we can all handle it....

We received word from the league that the Chicago at Jacksonville game was shifted to Saturday, presumably to give the league more time to finalize the Slam's details. As a result, the Chicago at Dallas game was moved to Sunday at 3:00 local time.

radiodavel
02-09-2008, 11:35 AM
so it is ok for the league to change a game to a different night, allowing to solve some problems with the Slam, not even posting that on there web site, but you let Wilmington play a so-called PBL Travelling team and make Dallas take a forfeit?

I was once told by an old man - "after you cheat on your wife the 1st time it is easier to do it the next time"

seems the PBL is making it up as they go...like having Dallas play a home game at Chicago last Sunday..

not so fast
02-09-2008, 11:51 AM
Well I think the alternative of Wilmington having thousands of fans there and no team to see them play would have been worse. Im not sure how many fans know the difference, I don't think they keep up with the standings of the PBL day to day. I'm sure most fans could not even tell you the ten teams in the league.

So give the league credit for doing what they can in crisis management and putting out fires.

And for the record, the league did there due dilligence on the owners but at the end of the day, they cannot make the owners spend their money as they had promised. It's up to each individual owner to have integrity and do what they agreed to do.

Maybe we can get Michael Jordan to invest in the league or maybe Oprah Winfrey. I live in Chicago area and I was just thinking about some of the wealthy people to help the PBL out. Hey Oprah, Barak Obama doesn't need anymore help. How about helping the Throwbacks Oprah? (their games are played about 15 minutes from her studio)

radiodavel
02-09-2008, 11:52 AM
Ok, here you go...PBL web site has Chicago at Jacksonville tonight, but the Throwbacks web site has the game in Chicago. Will the Slam be the Travelling team who played at Wilmington last night?

I'm confused and wonder how this is not a problem?

bdaly
02-09-2008, 12:31 PM
So give the league credit for doing what they can in crisis management and putting out fires.


Exactly. Again, I'm amazed that anyone that has followed minor league basketball expected perfection--especially when things came together fairly late. The league stated that Jacksonville's games might be moved to road games if they can't secure a venue, and that appears to be the case. Perfect? No, but it beats the alternative. Good for the PBL for stepping in and at least improving a potentially terrible situation.

radiodavel
02-09-2008, 12:37 PM
all I can say is ...if any of this stuff happened in the ABA (Most of) you would be all over them for this...the "little Dutch boy" would have trouble keeping the dam from breaking with all of the leaks that are going on...

DazedAndAmused
02-09-2008, 01:49 PM
all I can say is ...if any of this stuff happened in the ABA (Most of) you would be all over them for this...the "little Dutch boy" would have trouble keeping the dam from breaking with all of the leaks that are going on...

Understandable reaction, but there is one major difference: the PBL games are getting played, even though the league is obviously having to scramble to a degree. Hopefully this will be a short term firestorm and all 100 games will get played.

I think notsofast was on to something discussing the fact that it is hard to get owners to pay. Forget financial statements and due diligence and bonds to cover everything. Require league fees to cover players, coaches, referees, travel, and some escrow for venue fees based on venue contract. All of this (except for people who can't tell time to make their planes) is then solved. Dleague has this right. CBA used to, but now doesn't.

Bring the best from the CBA, PBL, and ABA with this type of league fee infrastructure and then you have something.

runninref
02-09-2008, 02:08 PM
A few points came to my attention concerning the PBL's status this weekend.
1. It is a league in its infancy. With that said, nothing is perfect nor should perfection be expected.
2. Although Dallas made a major mistake, we are human and mistakes happen.
3. The PBL, even in its infancy, has a workable back-up plan. How many other minor leagues given the circumstances do you think have back-up plans?
4. Would have been easier to just fold the Jacksonville team, however the PBL is making sure the season will go on as planned with a Jacksonville team even though they may not be able to play at home.
5. If it were any other minor league, the game would have been cancelled. That would have left 2000+ fans in North Carolina with a bad taste in their mouths concerning the league.
6. ALL GAMES IN THIS LEAGUE HAVE BEEN PLAYED TO DATE!
Thank you PBL. No, you are not the perfect minor league, however your efforts far exceed the other leagues.

tbayz1
02-09-2008, 02:18 PM
Ok, here you go...PBL web site has Chicago at Jacksonville tonight, but the Throwbacks web site has the game in Chicago. Will the Slam be the Travelling team who played at Wilmington last night?

I'm confused and wonder how this is not a problem?

the SLAM also have on their website that they will be going to Chicago

a1sports
02-09-2008, 03:17 PM
I agree. No one should use the ABA as a measuring stick. They do not count as a pro league IMO. CBA PBL ANd NBDL should stand alone and be evaluated on games scheduled and played and all the other criteria used to evaluate a pro league.

I like the idea that at least the PBL has a back up team or players. It sure would have helped the CBA to use this idea when 5 players without a coach showed up in MInot last week. Better yet !!!! Why not both leagues chip in and have one team or a group of players that practice daily and each league can use in case of an emergency !! The WLAF ( NFL Europe) had the "Dallas" team and the others would pull from it when they needed players. Dallas was never on the schedule, just a team that practiced everyday in the states and the players were ready if needed.

misenern
02-09-2008, 03:51 PM
I agree. No one should use the ABA as a measuring stick. They do not count as a pro league IMO. CBA PBL ANd NBDL should stand alone and be evaluated on games scheduled and played and all the other criteria used to evaluate a pro league.

Yes. Except games played should be a given. Apparently not anymore though.

I like the idea that at least the PBL has a back up team or players. It sure would have helped the CBA to use this idea when 5 players without a coach showed up in MInot last week. Better yet !!!! Why not both leagues chip in and have one team or a group of players that practice daily and each league can use in case of an emergency !! The WLAF ( NFL Europe) had the "Dallas" team and the others would pull from it when they needed players. Dallas was never on the schedule, just a team that practiced everyday in the states and the players were ready if needed.

I hate the idea. As a fan, I would be really disappointed to see a team of second rate players play a lousy exhibition style game when I paid to go see a real game against a real team. Why can't they just make all their games? In any other minor league sport this would be considered laughable. If the Halifax Mooseheads (Hockey) were scheduled to play the Quebec Remparts, but instead I come to the game and they are playing the "QMJHL Travelers", I would be pissed, and so would just about every hockey fan I know. But, that’s never happened, and it will never happen. 15 years and counting. I don't want to see a joke team, I want see a real team playing a real game. The fact that a league has a dedicated “Replacement Team” is laughable; I thought that was an ABA thing.

Seriously, if the leagues are in such pathetic shape, round up the best teams from the ABA (Vermont, Halifax and maybe Quebec, no one else), PBL and CBA, and put together something respectible. Dump the rest of the teams. I know it's not plausible, but something has to be done.

MJHankel
02-09-2008, 04:32 PM
I think it is commendable that the league did what they could to not leave Wilmington hanging. That does appear to be quite unique in minor league ball. I don't think that the league had to do this. I do agree that from a fans perspective, especially one that is an active fan, it is a joke. I remember las season when the Steelheads were in the USBL on fan appreciation night the visiting team canceled due to flight problems. The tickets had already been sold and the place was pretty full. The league had no obligation, and therefore they did nothing. The Steelheads opted to play a scrimmage, home vs. away. To some it was just fine to others it was stupid. My point is the league had no obligation to do anything in Wilmington they could have simply rescheduled due to technical difficulties. At the same time any good operation should take it upon themselves to provide a show for their patrons. If the league hadn't sent these travelers, would Wilmington simply have said, better luck next time, to some 2000 people?

misenern
02-09-2008, 04:36 PM
I think it is commendable that the league did what they could to not leave Wilmington hanging. That does appear to be quite unique in minor league ball. I don't think that the league had to do this. I do agree that from a fans perspective, especially one that is an active fan, it is a joke. I remember las season when the Steelheads were in the USBL on fan appreciation night the visiting team canceled due to flight problems. The tickets had already been sold and the place was pretty full. The league had no obligation, and therefore they did nothing. The Steelheads opted to play a scrimmage, home vs. away. To some it was just fine to others it was stupid. My point is the league had no obligation to do anything in Wilmington they could have simply rescheduled due to technical difficulties. At the same time any good operation should take it upon themselves to provide a show for their patrons. If the league hadn't sent these travelers, would Wilmington simply have said, better luck next time, to some 2000 people?

Well said.

Don't get me wrong, I think the PBL did the absolute best they could in this situation. They went above and beyond the call of duty. I just don't think the league should allow itself to get in these situations in the first place.

a1sports
02-09-2008, 06:09 PM
In my opinion the landscape is very low for pro BBall in the USA. A lot has to be attributed to the ABA and wrecking of over 100 markets IMO. The PBL , CBA and NBDL all are in the same boat pretty much. The staying power of an ower is dependent on their pockets, some are pretenders, some are contenders and some are inbetween. NO Pro league has a lock on success ( CBA,PBL, NBDL). The rec league ABA is just smoke and mirrors IMO and may be on last legs. Time has come for all to get together and sort this out !

Jenxx23
02-09-2008, 07:57 PM
Lightning Man - you are perceptive, Dallas is the next Jam. Yes, they missed their flight for their game in Wilmington but it wasn't because of the coach, the coach has held this team together and done it UNPAID! The owner's "assistant" sent in a 3 week old travel roster and so the airlines would not let the team travel with the exception of the 4 people who were on the travel list that are still on the team from 3 weeks ago. Yes, the coach probably should have verified but no one is perfect. Not sure where the term idiot comes from. Unless you apply it to the assistant who had an updated travel roster from LAST WEEK!

The Defenders are in serious financial trouble in my opinion. The guys have been evicted from their hotel twice, the coach has gotten all the players comped meals and saved the hotel deal, the coach has provided the only additional team meals out of his own pocket - with the exception of two weeks time - the coach has saved players from the idiot owner and the team HAD a great line up. Beyond playing games in this league there are people to think about, how about the players who aren't getting paid, or if they are their checks are bouncing? Or how about the owner taking money from paychecks to pay hotel incidentals that aren't paid and still due - no wonder they got kicked out. Or how about the fact that the Defenders has the WORST travel schedule in the PBL which was organized prior to the head coach being hired?

Let's not point fingers here but 1. head coach hasn't received a dime 2. player payroll has bounced or they aren't getting paid 3. owner takes so much family to a comped restuarant for free meals that the team lost that restuarant 4. no team transportation 5. owner tells head coach to pay for team expenses and refused to reimburse the coach 6. owner cut salaries for players 6. practice facility won't let us practice anymore because that check bounced too....come on, yes, of course the Defenders are going under....

Now for the real question ... who is backing the owner erin patton - for being a marketing mastermind he sure miscalculated this deal. The league? Private backing? The defenders are headed for the toilet unless the league steps up and makes due on the 1/2 truths the owner has puked all over everyone here. No blame is on anyone EXCEPT for the owner and his lack of experience and intelligence. ~~~>Jenxx23

DazedAndAmused
02-09-2008, 10:18 PM
Sounds to me like the the Slam and Defenders will most likely finish their seasons out as traveling teams with the league funding it. The only difference here (I think) is that the Dallas owner is being cooperative and realistic with the league. The Travelers may be seen a bit more around the league.

MJHankel
02-09-2008, 10:22 PM
It's a pity really. I had hoped for a legitimate team to watch in the Dallas area. I guess I will stick to baseball when I am here.

tbayz1
02-11-2008, 06:12 AM
While the Sea Dawgs have other talented forwards, McGinnis was both a load in the low post and a threat from outside. It will be interesting to see how the Sea Dawgs recover.

As we all know Cedric is gone, well he already found a new home.

He is now with the Rio Grande Valley Silverados of the CBA:

"The Silverados play again at 7:05 tonight at the Oklahoma Calvary, and they will take with them the newly signed Cedrick Meginnis, a power forward/center from North Carolina-Wilmington."
http://www.themonitor.com/sports/silverados_8929___article.html/game_points.html

The Sweeper
02-11-2008, 08:47 AM
Actually, McGinnis has signed with the Manchester Millrats of the ABA. I was told of this yesterday by their GM. Was also confirmed by their press release...

2007 ABA All Star Post McGinnis Heading to Manchester

February 11, 2008 Manchester, New Hampshire: The Manchester Millrats have added 6'9 center-forward Cedric McGinnis, the nephew of ABA Legend George McGinnis. Cedric, a supremely talented player in his own right, was a 2007 ABA All Star selection with the Wilmington (N.C.) Sea Dawgs.

Cedric's uncle George McGinnis, was drafted #1 overall by the Indiana Pacers in the 1971 ABA draft, after being an All-American at Indiana University. He was the ABA Co-MVP with Julius Erving (Dr. J) in the '74-75 season, and led the ABA in scoring with a 29.8 points per game average.

Cedric McGinnis averaged 22 points and 8 rebounds per game for the Sea Dawgs in '06-07, leading them to the ABA's final four against eventual champion Vermont.

"We are excited about adding a player of Cedric's caliber to our team, and we feel his addition will help bolster our run at the ABA Championship," stated Millrats Head Coach Larry Lessett.

McGinnis will be in uniform for this weekend's doubleheader against the Quebec Kebs. Saturday night the Millrats will face Quebec at 7:05 pm at Southern New Hampshire University. On Sunday, the Kebs will play Manchester in a special game slated for Sunday at 7:15 pm at the Sportszone in Derry, NH (www.nhsportszone.com).

Tickets are just $9.75 for adults and $6.75 for kids 17 and under. All SNHU students and faculty get in FREE with a valid school ID on Saturday night. Groups of 20 or more may book in advance and pay just $5.50 per person. Tickets are available at the door, online at www.manchestermillrats.com, or by calling 1-866-9-GET-TIX. Doors open one hour prior to tip off.


All Millrats games are events! Each game features fast paced, exciting basketball in addition to quality entertainment such as the Pink Sapphire Dancers, Milly the Millrat, live singers, and a halftime performance.

tbayz1
02-11-2008, 12:32 PM
I stand corrected ;)

formerlyknownasfells
02-12-2008, 09:26 AM
A few phone calls and we have the following:

The dallas team showed up at 8am for their 10:05 flight, problem was the 10:05 flight was from Atlanta to Wilmington. Their coach didnt notice the 7 am flight to Atlanta from Dallas.

The PBL sent in a practice team they have on the payroll, The game is a forfeit for Dallas. Also a fine.

Cedric McGinnis was released by Wilmington for personal reasons, No one could give me a reason but he was cut free. Looks like he may wind up with an ABA team. I was told by a source that he is not allowed in the PBL the rest of the year....dont know why.

Joe N should learn, this is how you handle 11th hour emergency, NAhhh he would never spend a dime of the 10k he got. Thats why you have the rec league ABA and the pro leagues PBL and CBA and NBDL.

As far as McGinnis is concerned, a source told me that he was released because of a physical confrontation with the head coach.

LightningMan
02-12-2008, 09:36 AM
As far as McGinnis is concerned, a source told me that he was released because of a physical confrontation with the head coach.
Now that's stupid on McGinnis's part, since the coach is part owner as well.